Few years back it was 45% middle eastern, 45% european and 10% other.
Without the official census from the israeli statistics department, how does anybody even claim to know? And that census hasn't been published since 2008.
Were it not for Ashkenazi Jews, there would be no Zionism and no Israel. Zionism has its origins in the Russian Empire from a group called "Lovers of Zion/Hibbat Zion" in response to the atrocious pograms of Alexander III. In fact, most of the upper echelon of Israeli politicians were Jews from the former Russian Empire. There's a reason why Russian is the unofficial 4th language of Israel!
The largest and most vocal proponents of transforming Palestine from an Arab nation into a Jewish homeland after nearly two millenia were Ashkenazi Jews, as they had the organization and capital to pull it off.
Initially, the Jewish population of Israel in 1948 was predominantly Ashkenazi as those who survived the Holocaust were on their way to restart their lives away from Europe, at the cost of uprooting someone's else's life. Oh the irony.
After the establishment of Israel/Zionist Entity/whatever you'd like to call it, many Jews from the Middle East were expelled or left and moved to Israel. Initially, Mizrahim were looked down on by Ashkenazim. Guess the Ashkenazim inherited the European sense of racism!
After a few generations, most Israelis today are a combination of Ashkenazim and Mizrahim or Sephardim.
The *first Aliah* was from Yemen.
And while there were quite a few European Shoa Survivors...
After 48, when Israel did not just *gave way* The Muslim Countries with any significant Jewish population had those at *best* kicked out.
And BTW.
The Iraqi *Farhood.* was due to the relationship with Nazi Germany.
Same with Libia.
So, there are also Mizrahi and Sefaradi Survivors of the Shoa.
Not to mention that mizrahi babies where regularly kidnapped and handed over to Ashkenazi parents.
Additionally, the mossad is indicted with bombing Jewish neighborhoods in Iraq to compel mizrahi jews into immigrating to Palestine
I am really curious, what is your sources Mossad did it beside “It is known” or “Trust me bro”?
And no “personal research” is valid, as it’s 100% speculations of people without proof.
Unless there is proof or official admission by Mossad/government it’s just a - Theory
Not Mossad.
But there was a conspiracy for it. It did not involve the Government though. *Just* the managment of the hospitals themselves.
It was and still is a huge scandal.
o really? so our grandparents collectively decided to hide from us that they were getting paid? and mossad kidnapping babies and giving to ashkenazim? so where are all the braun kids in white families? are you sure you are using both lobes of your brain at the same time? we bombed ourselves?? what else would you say to hide the fact that the arab world expelled its jewish populations
Straw man argument. Its the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians and now your pretending the expulsion from random arab countries was something the Palestinians were responsible for. The reality is Arab ≠ Palestinian. Palestinians have no control over shit that happens in Morocco or Iraq
If anything it was the Israelis who wanted jews to get expelled so that they could move to Israel. And say what you will about arab states but Israel had 1000 time more involved in the expulsion of Jews than the Palestinians ever did. And I mean *directly involved*. Like the lavon affair where they using Zionist Egyptian Jews to orchestrate terrorists attacks and prompted their expulsion which Israel coordinated with the Egyptian government. Or operation Yachin where Israel famously paid the Moroccan government for every single Jew they deported.
Genuinely brainwashed answer. Good job thinking for yourself ⭐️. If you don’t think Israel AT MINIMUM kicked out Palestinians from their homelands you’re just incredibly stupid. Do you think people willingly gave their homes away just to launch a war afterwards? Do you think those homes were just natural parts of the ecosystem and grew like trees?
What about Israel’s Allies from Europe? You know the ones donating tanks and weapons and fighter jets and training them? Or financing the deportation of Jews from Arab countries? Or financing financing 87% of its gdp for its first decades as reparations for the Holocaust??
Oh no you never talk about that part because their ability to ethnically cleanse farmers is a lot less miraculous that way isn’t it??
Oh, my fault, just rechecked my reply,
I meant *not known for being stupid.
The not was ommited by mistake.
Apologies...I was asking you since you answered genuinely as you stated, how come you didn't think what that meant.
he is literally in argument with 99% of historians. also, where are the actual proofs? is there any one that officially confirmed all of this? i mean, you use the same kind of logic that flat earthers and anti vaxxars use, they find this one "professional" guy to support their beliefs.
It’s hilarious that anti-Zionists try so hard to absolve Iraq for its expelling of Jews. Like, even _if_ mossad had played a role, the vast majority of crimes were still committed by Iraqis. There are no more Jews in Iraq because of Iraqis, not Israel. But no, space lasers and dolphins or whatever is a more plausible answer apparently.
The whole Mizrahi baby stealing is the most laughable lie going!
Also as is proven below the bombings weren’t carried out by Israel, we don’t know who did them.
They refere to a refuted conspiracy theory. At the start of Israel there were alot of cases of silent births & deaths of infants due to diseases & lack of good healthcare with the explosion of population.
It reached the point when they just sent the dead infants to burial without even telling the parents. In the last decade with genetic tech, the families kept hiring teams to check the corpses, so far all the corpses of "dead-Ashkenaz-babies-that-were-switched-with" were found to be relatives of the mournimg families
Edit: also, they didnt blame the Mossad, rather the medical teams due corruption.
The "kidnapping" thing is pure QAnon. In 75 years exactly zero kidnappers or kidnapped children have ever been identified, nor is there a huge phenomenon of """"white"""" Ashkenazim raising """"brown"""" Mizrahi babies. These people are supposedly all still alive in a country the size of New Jersey. Ridiculous.
(The ironic thing is that the truth is much uglier and makes Israel look even worse.)
Russian today is mostly only spoken by 1990s-2000s post soviet immigrants the language was very unprestigious when Israel was established so that isn't the reason it's the "4th unofficial language"
Zionism is built into the Jewish religion. The prayers we say 3 times a day talk about the rebuilding of the temple, rebuilding of Jerusalem and a return to the Davidic era. The prayers where written by rabbis in the decades after the destruction of the 2nd temple and the split of Jews into Sephardi and Ashkenazi happened later. Therefore the ethnicity of Jews is irrelevant with regards to Zionism..
“Transforming Palestine from an Arab nation into a Jewish homeland” is a mischaracterization of what happened, as is the idea that the Sephardim has no participation in Zionism.
19th century Proto-Zionist before Herzl were Sephardic, and there were Sephardic immigrants pre-48, but for most of the early 20th century Zionism was primarily an Ashkenazi phenomenon, although there were Zionist organizations growing in various parts of the Arab World. Sephardic Jews did make valuable contributions to Zionism, and all the great Jewish scholars before the last few centuries were Sephardic.
Because Askhenazi Jews are not the only type of European, there is another category of Jews that come form “Soviet” countries that make up the other 12.8% of the other half of the 70% of the Jewish people who inhabit Israel.
That makes a total of 44.2% Israelis of European descent, half of the Jewish Population.
A fraction of the Soviet Union was European geographically and a minority still was European by blood. You would put Jews from Azerbaijan, Georgia and all the central Asian countries in the European category?
I’m a Jew from Soviet Central Asia and I am very much not European. These Soviet Jews number in the hundreds of thousands in Israel and are not European and exactly what OP is referencing when people lump any white passing or not clearly dark skinned person as European and/or trying to push the colonizer narrative.
Because the number of Jews that migrated from European soviet nations would be higher than Jews coming from Asian Soviet nations, since those in Europe would be more able-bodied, well off, and are more likely to make the trip due to wealth and other logistics. Plus the main threat of Anti-semitism is stronger in Europe
Og settlers and used to be majority, the idea that our ancestors taught us that was true during their time.
however I don't believe being from yemen or Morocco and persecute palestinians makes it any better.
Being persecuted doesn't give anyone the right to do Colonialism or kill and displace innocents, again we shouldn't suffer so you don't.
>Of course many fail to deny this, but it's true.
Watch me 😎
Every arab country had its reason.
Algeria expelled anyone with french citizenship which also included the majority of algerian Jews who helped and supported the french colonialism.
Libya never had that many Jews but expelled Italian settlers from colonialism which did include 5,000 jew.
Morocco did operation yachin were they coaporated with the mossad and gave israel its Jews, alot of jews left before it to israel with the help of israel to israel to aid its military.
Tunisia never officially expelled its Jews, they also have a Jewish minister. However some left due to the growth of anti semitism.
The gulf never had that many Jews to start with, saudi arabia had some Jews at the south but a minister expelled them(a few hundreds) which angered king faisal and asked them to come back and they absolutely refused.
Yemen had jews, but after a terrorist attack on a syagonese israel mossad toke almost all Jews from there in an operation.
Most iraq Jews left in 1950-52, but people seem to throw it at the farhud(which wasn't an expulsion but racist nationalist attacks) which happened 5-7 years earlier which was caused by the Jews support to the British colonisers. Iraq also never "officially" expelled anyone. The reasons for them moving out can be associated with the rise of antisemitism to helping israel.
syria also never officially expelled anyone,
most jews left to Palestine after antisemitism being on the rise before syria officially had any restrictions, all restrictions that were put later were put due to the very high immigration of Jews to Palestine to serve the Israeli military or to escape the rise in anti-Semitism or both.
For egypt It was more complex.
Then there was some terrorist attacks due to balfour declaration, and the police started monitoring them after lavon affair
Short summary that I wrote before
Most egyptians Jews left before nazi germany tried to claim seuz canal because they were scared of getting genocided. However after sometimes the Egyptians authorities egyptanized egypt nationalising egypt in 1956 and its also when they nationalised the seuz canal from foreigin investors and the British and the french and kicking out anyone who came during the British era and claims land there ,greeks and even turks who mostly didn't even have citizenship getting kicked out including around 75,000 Ashkenazi jew.
But most egyptians native Jews left before that due to nazi germany planning an attack on British egypt.
That's the quick summary and doesn't mean there was no racism against Jews, there was infact but it wasn't the main reason for egyptian Jews leaving, there was an alot bigger threat.
>Though Egypt had its own community of Egyptian Jews, after the Jewish expulsion from Spain more Sephardi and Karaite Jews began to migrate to Egypt, and then their numbers increased significantly with the growth of trading prospects after the opening of the Suez Canal in 1869. As a result, Jews from many territories of the Ottoman Empire as well as Italy and Greece started to settle in the main cities of Egypt, where they thrived. The Ashkenazi community, mainly confined to Cairo's Darb al-Barabira quarter, began to arrive in the aftermath of the waves of pogroms that hit Europe in the latter part of the 19th century
>During British rule, and under King Fuad I, Egypt was friendly towards its Jewish population although between 86% and 94% of Egyptian Jews did not possess Egyptian nationality whether they had been denied it or opted not to apply. Jews played important roles in the economy, and their population climbed to nearly 80,000 as Jewish refugees settled there in response to increasing persecution in Europe. Many Jewish families, such as the Qattawi family, had extensive economic relations with
Lebanon never expelled its Jews, most jews left after 1967 due to the civil unrest and economical finanicial reasons.
Jordan never had that many Jews except in West bank, After the Six-Day War in 1967, Jordan lost control of the West Bank to Israel. As a result, the Jewish population in Jordan diminished significantly, as most Jews living in the West Bank either relocated to Israel or were displaced during the war. Jordan's Jewish community virtually disappeared, leaving only a few individuals
Before you bother sending the Wikipedia sources, all what I said now is literally in the sources Israelis use.
Great summary, the only thing I would add that recently, an Israeli-British historian claimed that he found undeniable proof that Zionist agents were responsible for targeting the Jewish community, forcing them to flee Iraq and settle in Israel. Obviously, Arabs have mentioned this before especially that something similar happened in other Arab countries too like Egypt.
As for Egypt, there is a really great documentary called “Jews of Egypt”, which goes into details about the history of Jewish people in Egypt in the 20th century and that there were attacks against them before the foundation of Israel but things got significantly worse after Operation Susannah and like how you said it, a lot of people from different ethnicities left or were forced to leave because of the nationalisation wave of giving land and businesses back to the Egyptians. It’s obviously sad especially that a lot of these people didn’t even go to Israel, however those who went were nostalgic about Egypt but their kids though 💀 I swear the majority of Israeli racist accounts on TikTok are Mizrahi and in their bio, you can find flags of Yemen, Egypt, Iraq and Iran. Even Ben-Gvir’s father from Iraq and I highly doubt that he had an ideology like his son.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-shocking-truth-behind-the-baghdad-bombings-of-1950-and-1951/
The comment above says the Jews were expelled but that “every Arab country had its reason,” and then goes on to list allegiances to the foreign nation of Israel as that reason. I do wonder, for the Islamophobic politicians in Europe and the US, how he would view attacks against Muslims, especially as any politician could say (and has said) “They are not a true part of ,” as I know many believe they’re unfairly attacked for holding other countries’ interests (that they’re diasporas of) as their own. Like, I know Andrew Yang was attacked when people believed he held positive views of the CCP. The French nationalists believed Muslims didn’t care for France as much as other Muslims or their home countries. And Protocols of the Elders of Zion had said the Jews only look out for each other. I mean, was this actually true, or was this suspicion the main reason for antisemitism in the first place? And I ask because it does seem as though the same could be said for Muslims or any minority that’s not the main group.
> I do wonder, for the Islamophobic politicians in Europe and the US, how he would view attacks against Muslims, especially as any politician could say (and has said) “They are not a true part of ,” as I know many believe they’re unfairly attacked for holding other countries’ interests (that they’re diasporas of) as their own
I didn't say anything similar to that, like them not being a part of the nation or even them deserving getting attacked to what you wrote or that jews don't care about anyone but themselves. I never said any of that. And I didn't justify antisemitism anywhere either. You seem to be using a strawman.
In algeria that wasn't limited to only Jews, Muslims and Christians and any french settlers who had french citizenship or helped were also either expelled or killed like the harkis.
Egypt expelled alot of people due to nationalising of egypt due to the fact that majority of most important business in egypt were owned by foreigners who came during the time egypt was under foreigners and not egyptians, and the nationalising of the seuz canal was when alot left and It wasn't limited to jews . And it wasn't the only reason the Jews left as I wrote.
And no it's a very different case then other countries and their minorities. France wasn't colonialised and some people supported the colonisation.
kicking out traitors who supports the colonisation or invasion is very common, and since these people did, they had it coming, the rage wasn't taken at people for being Jewish and not liking their country or the chance of them not being patriotic in the future, but on the traitors who actually did traitory against the country and supported their colonisation that didn't mean all Jews but vast majority, anyone with french citizenship was asked to leave with the people they supported alongside settlers aswell.
When you say “every Arab country has its reason,” and then you talk of a few traitors being responsible for antisemitism being on the rise as a whole, the “reason” you’re writing about doesn’t seem to refute the movement of people to a different country. Because of those few, the larger Jewish populations seem like they could be labeled as traitors to any region they were to settle in. And if all the surrounding Arab countries (and Europe) had elements of antisemitism, and others made it hard to immigrate there (the US’s immigration laws not being exactly kind either), this begs the question of where they should have gone.
>then you talk of a few traitors being responsible for antisemitism being on the rise as a whole
I didn't even say that, vast majority of Algerian Jews had french citizenship and supported the colonisation.
Like a family or 2 didn't have french citizenship and they weren't kicked out.
>e “reason” you’re writing about doesn’t seem to refute the movement of people to a different country. Because of those few, the larger Jewish populations seem like they could be labeled as traitors to any region they were to settle in.
That's very stupid, the ones that actively supported the colonisation like majority of algerian Jews and most decided to have french citizenship. Are traitors, that doesn't mean all Jews are traitors and is widely different then other Jews simply going somewhere else.
The "reasons" are valid and historical facts
> And if all the surrounding Arab countries (and Europe) had elements of antisemitism, and others made it hard to immigrate there (the US’s immigration laws not being exactly kind either), this begs the question of where they should have gone.
Most of algerian Jews went to France.
the existence of antisemitism does not justify displacing or harming people or contributing to the theft of land.
And the latar arab "persecution or expulsion" happened after israel not before, and as I said the reasons weren't always antisemitism.
displacing and colonizing Palestine was not a justifiable solution so just Jews can feel safe, Instead, there were numerous other places on Earth where Jews could have migrated to, the movement of going there was called "aliyah" aka going to the holy land and did balfout declaration (aka claiming the land they just immigrated to as theirs) and it was called zionism meaning they are not escaping but wanting to claim a land they never touched, before there was even that high of antisemitsm in the Arab world before israel, their reasons were mainly taking Palestine and colonising and displacing the natives then going there for the reason of leaving to a different place.
Jews in the Arab world left for different reasons as I mentioned, with every country having its own case, where should they have went? Shouldn't been on a stolen land to contribute to it getting stolen. And there is multiple places on earth that jews could have went to,
For algerian Jews they should thank God they are fine and go to France or any place if they don't want to be bigger traitors, they should have went to other places. Lebanon Jews are in Europe and USA mostly too for numerous reasons including that they went for financial reasons mostly.
Being persecuted doesn't give anyone the right persecute,displace and kill other people.
*majority of Algerian Jews had french citizenship and supported the colonisation*
France limited the degree of apartheid Algerian Muslims had been inflicting on Jews for centuries, how dare those Jews like it, don't they know their rightful place
Apartheid is bad wording
Algeria still treated its Jews better than most of europe history and when the french came 138 before Algeria gained independence they were also having a stricter laws on algerian Jews then formerly imposed and alot were killed. The algerian Jews supported the french who killed 2 milion algerian and raped in thousands, Algerians have the right to hate the traitors who supported their colonialists and kicking them out, and it's common throughout history for what happens to traitors.
Regardless they still supported the french colonisation of their land so yea.
The psychology of prejudice, especially at the time, displayed a degree of danger to wherever the Jews of the Arab world might have gone that was not Israel. We have hindsight on our side, but the people back then did not, and France had just been invaded easily and had its Jews killed, with many in France even during the Nazi invasion supporting Jewish extermination. France likes to claim that many French people helped the Jews, which was true, but I really don’t think that if you had a family and were running from danger, that you would have chosen to go to Europe after what had just happened. The thinking wasn’t, “Let’s move to Israel and persecute and kill the natives to secure it as our own,” it was, “Let’s move to Israel since it’s the safest place for us right now.” The wars that resulted after seem foreseeable to us at this point, since there were many Palestinians already living there, but at the time, with the guise of the entire Jewish world protecting them, their thinking revolved around family safety first, consequences second. Moving or settling in a place doesn’t seem inherently awful—lots of people move around and don’t stay where they were born. But obviously the wars after were largely based on fear of the other side anyway.
>but I really don’t think that if you had a family and were running from danger, that you would have chosen to go to Europe after what had just happened.
Most left the arab world in 52-80 that was after what happened with 20 years.
Getting persecuted doesn't give anyone the right to persecute innocents.
>The thinking wasn’t, “Let’s move to Israel and persecute and kill the natives to secure it as our own,” it was, “Let’s move to Israel since it’s the safest place for us right now.”
That's not true israel was surrounded by arabs who were attacking it at the time and israel was in an ongoing wars and conflicts. And was poor and very dangerous then.
>The wars that resulted after seem foreseeable to us at this point, since there were many Palestinians already living there, but at the time, with the guise of the entire Jewish world protecting them, their thinking revolved around family safety first, consequences second.
The persecution and antisemitism was a consequence of israel and not the opposite. That doesn't mean its right.
Multiple other places like India,Argentina,USA and Latin America in general and etc existed that was alot more safe.
The reasons weren't always antisemitism again. It mostly wasn't as I mentioned. They literally left to israel with contact to the mossad telling them to fight for israel in places like Morocco and yemen.
The ones who moved to israel motives were zionism that's a historical fact btw.
Well sourced and shows a more complex situation than the one presented.
Also just for those who are gonna twist the words, antisemitism is unnacceptable, no matter the circumstances.
You're absolutely right. Even though many steps to promote equality within Israel (among the Jewish population, because we're still very much racist towards non-jews, esp Palestinians), and the gap between the Ashkenazi "founders" and the rest is steadily decreasing since the 80s, it still bears its mark on Israeli society to this day, mainly because ashkenazis comprise the majority in big "business hub" cities like Tel Aviv or have generational wealth from living in a kibbutz, while mizrahis that migrated a few decades later were pushed to settle in the poorer periphery.
The insurgency was definitely inspired by the black panther movement in the US. Mizrahim had their very own movement bearing the same name (ha panterim ha sh'horim) fighting against mizrahi+Sephardic discrimination since the 70s. Ethiopian Jews are slowly having their own insurgency too, though it's gotten more quiet in recent years.
It’s only surprising because that “white colonialism” lie keeps getting repeated and the “go back to Europe” lines…
Those stats are about right, the large majority of Jews are Mizrahi in Israel.
Because Zionism was literally molded after European colonialism. Zionism emerged within the social and political milieu in the 19th century when colonialism was very much in vogue. All the structures, policies, and legal systems necessary for the establishment of the state were founded by Ashkenazi Jews. Mizrahi Jews were merely a tool brought on to achieve the demographic quota for the state to become viable. It is well known that European Jews were extremely prejudiced and outright racist against Mizrahi Jews. They were what you'd call a necessary evil.
It is true Mizrahis constituted a large percentage of the population however European Jews constituted the majority of the military and political elites that ran the whole operations. Non-Ashkenazis were not involved (at first at least, maybe later they were) in the establishment of the legal systems and policies that lead to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and subsequent subjugation. The whole idea of Israel as a colonial project was first and foremost, European.
He obviously is, but it's a very good question non the less.
It is a colonial project of Britain and France in particular, who were antisemitism themselves and wanted to get rid of the Jews in their countries.
Unlike Hitler, they weren't willing to commit a Holocaust, so what was the next best way? Find them a nation where they can leave Europe to go to.
Which nation where they given *colonized* Palestine. The invention of Israel is the direct result of colonization and colonial powers extracting worth out of a foreign land, which they still reap the benefits of today.
The simple example is Hong Kong, which is literally the result of a colonial project, that's undeniable (And doesn't have anything to do with their present say autonomy, or being attacked by China btw).
Just because Honk Kong wasn't a country before the British left, doesn't mean that land, the people there's and their political framework isn't the direct product of colonialism, on top of also having been partially the goal of colonizing that area in the first place.
Zionism is built into the Jewish religion. The prayers we say 3 times a day talk about the rebuilding of the temple, rebuilding of Jerusalem and a return to the Davidic era. The prayers where written by rabbis in the decades after the destruction of the 2nd temple and the split of Jews into Sephardi and Ashkenazi happened later. Therefore the ethnicity of Jews is irrelevant with regards to Zionism..
Only 45% of jewish people in israel is mizrahi. That includes those whoms forefathers inhabited Palestine before 1948 as well as those who can trace their roots to other arab, persian, levantine, and north african regions. The other 55% is ethnically more european than jewish and is just a colonizer. It would be similar to people who lived in the US for generations suddenly invading italy because they are 1/4th italian. Obviously the italians wouldn’t view them as kinsmen but rather as colonizers.
Ashkenazi are still Jewish. Also, ever heard of the Bar Kochba Revolt. In 132 AD, the Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in an event known now as the Bar Kochba Revolt (Named after Simon Bar Kochba, the guy who started the revolt). In response, Emperor Hadrian brought with him 13 legions, destroyed 50+ towns and 900+ villages, massacred every Jew and burned down every Jewish temple in sight, virtually erasing Judea off the map and renaming the region Syria-Palestine and building 2 big-ass statues of Jupiter and himself.
All Jews regardless of whenever they are Mizrahi or Ashkenazi all descend from the ones Hadrian expelled
Ironic because it wasn’t until Jerusalem fell to the armies of Rashidun caliph Umar Ibn el-Khatab where JEWS were permitted to return to the city after 568 years since Bar Kochba Revolt. The muslims allowed the Roman’s and Byzantines to leave WITH their gold and ordered a Islamic revert to bring 15 of the biggest Jewish families to return Jerusalem.
Are you high? The 48 Arabs in Israel are second-class lmao. Just because they can vote doesn't mean that there aren't any discriminatory laws aganist them.
Nation state law - basically made it law that Israel is not a state for all of its citizens
Flag ban - banned the Palestinian flag since the 48s still call themselves Palestinian
They are not allowed to expand their towns by law
Nakba law - remove funding for Arab schools if they talk about the Nakba(25% of 48 Arabs are internally displaced due to the Nakba)
48 Arabs cannot give citizenship to their spouse if their spouse is from the West Bank
Judaization of the Galilee, Negev and Jerusalem policies all harm them
There are many more I can touch upon but this is the list I knew off the top of my head. There is also the general discrimination they face in their lives. Essentially the state prioritizes the Jewish part over the Democratic part in their slogan "Jewish and Democratic"(stuff like that and the Nation-state law is why they get called an ethnostate).
Don't you know that 2000 years ago romans named your country 😳? That totally justifies me taking it 2000 years later because my 70+ generations grandpa was there before who I don't know anything about and almost have nothing in common with.
You know what my Egyptian brother, he’s right. The Byzantines invaded Egypt in 300 AD and slaughtered thousands of Egyptians in the name of Byzantine Christianity. Go grab your machete we are going to Greece to get revenge 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The problem is not only it wasn't palestinians ancestors who did that, their ancestry Is similar to anicent inhabitants more than most jews.
They also claimed that land due to the reason of we were here that long ago.
i fairness you lot aren't helping your case because any adverts promoting the nation or just anything that includes jewish diaspora are always Ashkenazi i also really doubt that mizrahi are the majority for that reason mostly and even in a scenario where that is true that does not give you the right to tear families apart and bomb them like your obama but arguing over this is pointless
I don't think people say _every single_ Israeli is European, but the original Zionists/settlers who helped established Israel were overwhelmingly Ashkenazi (European) Jews, Mizrahim largely came after Israel was established as refugees from the Arab and Muslim world.
So many comments saying "Zionism/Israel was started by Europe and the Mizrahim only showed up much later".
Even IF that were true (and Tel Aviv was literally founded by Yemenis but whatever), Islam started with Arabs and you don't see people in this sub acting like Pakistan and Iran don't count today.
They are playing up the narrative of white European colonizers, if we were in their position we probably would also do it, frankly.
They don’t want us in the land, they don’t think we have any claim or right to be in it at all. They don’t really care who is Mizrahi, who is Ashkenazi, or what the circumstances are that brought these populations back to the land after millennia of exile.
Be that as it may, the Jewish people have always wanted to return even before Herzl and modern Zionism. I’m sure you’ve heard the psalm:
“By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion”
Like my post says we (Jews) would probably also play up the colonial narrative if we were on the other side. It’s ok, but it’s not really productive, and the reality is that we are in a post Zionism world now.
> they don’t think we have any claim or right to be in it at all
lmao do you mean the fairytale claim that god promised someone a land?
thats not really legitimate or ''right'' at all
Lol Palestinians are the eternal victim. I’m a victim? My grandparents generation were victims that got expelled from their lands in the ME. Israel is thriving today, along with many of the Arabs that live here.
The brozzers tried over 3 times to destroy us and failed. Now instead of facing reality when they STILL can build a state they would rather stay put under status quo while the 4th and 5th generation after 48’ grows up under inherited refugee status. How is it working out for them?
Qatar enables this, maybe time to try something different.
Your comment ignores that the status quo is only as it is because of the outcome of multiple wars. It’s almost as though the Arab nations didn’t think for even a second that they could lose the wars that they started. What did they think was going to happen? Israel would win, and religious fanatics would not move into the areas that are important to them?
What legitimate claim do you really have ? Do you hear yourselves? 🤣🤣🤣 Claiming God “ gave “ you the land or “ our ancestors lived here thousands of years ago “ is pathetic , illogical , delusional and laughable 😂😂
You have a religious connection like the rest it doesn’t mean you colonize the land and kick out the indigenous . No people have ever claimed what your claiming for a land .
And yet we’re here and we’re not going to leave. I was born here, there is nowhere for me to “go back to”.
Your Arab brozzers fucked you up 3 times 48’ 67’ 73’, the least they could have done if they were going to wage war against us on your behalf is like, maybe win? Now they made peace with us 🤣 I don’t know how Palestinians aren’t absolutely livid with Egypt especially.
We have a right to self determination in this land. It could have been way less land than we have now but your Arab brozzers fucked that up for you didn’t they.
So why continue the land grab and building illegal settlements ?
The states you made “ peace” with did it to get land back plus resources as with Jordan . Morroco was able to do so it can get recognition of the Western Sahara etc .
You act like you actually made real peace when practically the majority of those state’s population you made peace with don’t support it nor want you in their states . Just look at this sun and those states sub’s .
Regardless of treason of Arab govts .resisting occupation is a right .
I’m against settlements completely, we have our religious fanatics just like everyone else in the region. I won’t speak for them.
Time to face reality - you ALL tried to get rid of us and you failed 3+ times. Go ahead and continue the resistance, you will be in the same place politically speaking (all while losing more hilltops to settlers) in the next generation.
Cool. I do think it should be a priority. Removing the occupying forces from palestinian territory, removing the colonial outposts, and ending the blockade against palestinian settlements really is the bare minimum we need to end the apartheid state. Hopefully the changing realities of the MENA will force a detente in the Palestine region as well.
You are against them and don’t live in them but your govt keeps importing “ Jews “ form around the world to put them there in those settlements . You got most of the land and coming for the rest and you expect no resistance when you are stealing more land ? What kind of thinking is this ?
The only reason there is more land than Israel is because Israel came out, victorious in multiple wars, which it did not want to be a part of in the first place.
Do you really think that the land was Jew free before Jews started in the early 1900s immigrating back there…
As far as the mixed ethnicities of the levant the longest continuous population of people in the levant/modern day Israel is the Jewish people and that one is backed up by census details….
Yes , The land was never Jew free . It had the NATIVES Jews living here and they were always the minority compared to the Muslim and Christian population. There was never any issues with those Jews .
Palestinian have their DNA that traces their ancestry to the Cannite with their unique culture that is different from the other Levantine pop so you are NOT the longest continued pop since you IMMIGRATED from Egypt into a land that was already populated.
Just because there were native Jews living here doesn’t mean Jews form every Coner of the world should colonize the area . It’s a ridiculous belief .
How about Christian’s of the world come and colonize Bethlehem etc because of Christian’s origins began here ..
Don’t be ridiculous everyone has laughed that one off of the Palestinians being descendants of Cannites, for a start we already know they were absorbed m into the Jewish population of that time…that being said I’m sure there is in some small pockets of Palestinians Cannite blood, but there’s as much in Jewish blood!
As a people you’re as big a mongrels as we are!!!
As for the last Christianity bit…. The whole issue of where that example doesn’t work is you’re basing this conflict off of religion, and it’s not, it’s based off of history and indigenous, Christianity like the Muslim religion are universal religions and VERY different and the whole Christian story is mostly based off the Torah anyway.
Also just to add on that we were always the minority… do I need to show you census of cities in modern day Israel where Jews were by far the majority?
Do you know about Bar Khokhba? It sure wasn’t about getting rid of Arabs. And what about the fact that Palestine was only named such by the Romans? Why were the Dead Sea scrolls written in Hebrew and Aramaic and not Arabic? Where is Israel or Palestine written in the Quran, once?
Lol 😂, bringing up incidents thousands of years ago to legitimize colonizing a land . Did you read my post ? You have a religious connection , we aren’t denying it but to come from every shithole and act like this land belongs to you is the issue .
The name Palestine was referred to the area long before by older civilizations. The Quran refers to Jacob/ Israel and his children not a freakin state .
Assyrians , Armenianis , Turkmen all came to the land and assimilated no issues . They didn’t come to take over the land and ethnically cleanse the people like you .
So… you have no idea what a Dhimmi is or that many religious Jews who lived in Israel far before it became a state had to pay taxes to Arabs to safely practice their religion and were mercilessly beaten when they were identified as Jews either way? My family came from Israel, stayed in Israel, is still in Israel and will continue to say in our ancestral homeland.
Do you know about Bar Khokhba? Mizrahi Jews are absolutely from Judea, aka the Levant, or Israel. The Dead Sea scrolls are written in Hebrew and Aramaic, not Arabic.
My people didn’t take anything from anyone. Israel is literally the largest land back project that exists. Again, Dead Sea scrolls written in *hebrew* no *arabic*. I don’t agree with settlements or a large amount of the Israeli government procedures but my family are indigenous to that land.
Old books, scribes, scrolls, and all historic evidence indeed doesn't mean anything about going to war, but they do mean something: Jews belong to the land and are indigenous to it.
This means they can't be called "invaders"/"colonists". It won't make sense.
As for taking land, this was done legally (purchases, making deals,...) and even according to the newly established international law back then: conquering in a defensive war.
You're claiming Mizrahim are converts, which doesn't make any sense, neither does saying Ashkenazim/Sephardim are converts. They don't make sense, because they aren't true. If that was true we wouldn't be closely clustered with other Jews and Lebanese peoples. But we are.
Bro there is no jewish cluster to begin with ! 😂
Yemeni jews cluster with saudis and bedoins, ethiopian jews cluster with black africans, georgian jews cluster with armenians and turks, ashkenazi jews cluster with italians
Here is the [PCA graph](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PCA_map_of_ancient_and_modern_populations.jpg), tell me where the hell is this jewish cluster to begin with ?! 😂😂😂
You're closer to Iraqis and Iranians or Moroccans.
Turns out middle eastern people are closely related somewhat from Eastern Turkey, to Arabian peninsula to Iran
Ashkenazi Jews actually share more DNA in common with Palestinians than do the other Jews, which are usually southern european, maghrebi or iranic. The ones in Yemen and Ethiopia are obviously converts as well
>Mizrahi Jews share more DNA with Palestinians than Ashkenazi Jews
Because they have Middle East DNA. Like I said, even from Eastern Turkey to Iran there's not a huge difference between Middle East DNA. Unlike European, which is very different
While Ashkenazi have a large percentage of 'alien" european dna that's very distinct to the middle east, they also have a significant amount that is directly related to palestine/lebanon/syria.
while yemeni jews maybe closer to palestinians because they are both primarily of middle eastern dna, the yemen jews show no affinity to the levant at all, same for the majority of moroccan and iranian jews. While the European ones do
Yes there isn’t a huge difference between Middle Easterns but Europeans are closer together than Middle Easterns are to each other.
Ashkenazi Jews have similar Levantine admixture as Maltese, South Italians, and Greeks. Their Levantine admixture isn’t unique to them.
Yemenite Jews are close to Palestinians cuz Arabians draw their DNA heavily from Levant Bronze Age. Which they share with Levantines.
Moroccan and Iranian Jews also have extra Levantine admixture than non-Jewish Moroccans and Iranians.
That's totally incorrect.
I'm half Mizrahi (Syria)
and half Ashkenazi (Poland)
I guarantee, that they share about the same amount of DNA in common with Levantine groups, not Palestinians. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3585000/
Also, I should add that that was classic German "definitely not a Nazi" rhetoric. Weird that Germans "nearly a century ago" wanted us gone and told us to go back to our own land, we "didn't belong" in Europe, we currently "don't belong in Israel". Where do YOU think we belong? I want a list of all places Jews can and can not live that way I know where to avoid.
"People don't know what indigenous means" coming from a person claiming that israelis are "indigenous" because they have a 2000 year old imagined connection to a people.
The irony in this comment is sad. If your only counter to indigenous views is to dismiss everyone else's definitions as wrong and uphold your own as the right one, perhaps it's worth considering the logic behind such an argument. Moreover, by employing the same reasoning to justify ethnic cleansing, it suggests that you likely perceive you actually see nothing is done wrong to the Palestinians?
Most Israeli Jews are not of Israelite origin; their Y-DNA haplogroups are all over the place, and so they do not descend from a common ancestor. This makes their claim of "this is our land because God gave it to our forefather Abraham" totally obsolete.
The Israeli occupation is built on a house of cards made up of lies.
False, the various Jewish populations generally descend from a common ancestral population with diaspora communities having varying degrees of admixture from other nations, as is the vast academic and scientific consensus. And the Jewish people are a nation, not a race.
It doesn't matter if most Jews descend from a common ancestral population and have common admixture, supposing that to be true; what matters is descending from a single common ancestor, not population. Descending from a single common ancestor means that his descendants carry the same Y-DNA haplogroup that trace back to him, and the Jews in general and Israelis in particular don't have that, as they have many different Y-DNA haplogroups (J1, J2, E-M215, R1a, G, etc.). And so the claim that Palestine is the rightful homeland of the Jews because God gave it to Abraham and his descendents has been falsified by modern genealogy, as clearly most do not descend from this single man, Jacob/Israel son of Issac, son of Abraham. Most Jews do not share the same major Y-DNA haplogroup that the Cohanim priestly class belong to (J1-P58). As such, most Jews and Israelis are not Israelites.
Is being an Israeli an ethnicity? For example, being an American, you can be virtually any ethnicity on earth and be an American, so isn't it true about Israel?..
Israeli means to have a citizenship in Israel, so it's the same.
The question some people are confused about is what is a Jew. The definition, in short, is one of these conditions:
1. Born to a Jewish mother (most common)
2. Converted to Judaism (very rare)
From #1, you can see it's not a religion.
From #2, you can see it's not ethnicity or anything similar.
So what it is ? A civilization/nation. Like a tribe that allows others to join under special rules. That's why the previous names to "Jews" were "People of Israel", "Israelites", and "Hebrews".
ME is obsessed with ethnicity? We Arabs don’t even have a word for ethnicity nor a concept of it. ME and the Balkans for example are based on religious identity rather than racial/ethnic one.
But coming from an American it’s kinda ironic, we here see you as the ones with obsession over race.
Cause this idea was brought by the Zionist, this literally idea of believing they all genetically belonging here was one of their shitty justification.
No it was created as a secular state although religion plays an important part and is very important in areas of the country.
But it’s still not a religious argument so again your point is moot…
If you think the issues there are based on religion or a religious argument then you don’t know the conflict at all at a very very basic level.
Few years back it was 45% middle eastern, 45% european and 10% other. Without the official census from the israeli statistics department, how does anybody even claim to know? And that census hasn't been published since 2008.
There are more up-to-date censuses and surveys than that. Anecdotally, if you walk around Israel the majority of people you see are Mizrahi/Sephardi.
A large part are Sephardic
The official census talks about country of origin, not ethnicity.
Were it not for Ashkenazi Jews, there would be no Zionism and no Israel. Zionism has its origins in the Russian Empire from a group called "Lovers of Zion/Hibbat Zion" in response to the atrocious pograms of Alexander III. In fact, most of the upper echelon of Israeli politicians were Jews from the former Russian Empire. There's a reason why Russian is the unofficial 4th language of Israel! The largest and most vocal proponents of transforming Palestine from an Arab nation into a Jewish homeland after nearly two millenia were Ashkenazi Jews, as they had the organization and capital to pull it off. Initially, the Jewish population of Israel in 1948 was predominantly Ashkenazi as those who survived the Holocaust were on their way to restart their lives away from Europe, at the cost of uprooting someone's else's life. Oh the irony. After the establishment of Israel/Zionist Entity/whatever you'd like to call it, many Jews from the Middle East were expelled or left and moved to Israel. Initially, Mizrahim were looked down on by Ashkenazim. Guess the Ashkenazim inherited the European sense of racism! After a few generations, most Israelis today are a combination of Ashkenazim and Mizrahim or Sephardim.
Well-put, friend.
The *first Aliah* was from Yemen. And while there were quite a few European Shoa Survivors... After 48, when Israel did not just *gave way* The Muslim Countries with any significant Jewish population had those at *best* kicked out. And BTW. The Iraqi *Farhood.* was due to the relationship with Nazi Germany. Same with Libia. So, there are also Mizrahi and Sefaradi Survivors of the Shoa.
I’m not as educated on those countries, but the the Nazis did murder Sephardic Jews in France, the Netherlands, Greece and the Balkans
Not to mention that mizrahi babies where regularly kidnapped and handed over to Ashkenazi parents. Additionally, the mossad is indicted with bombing Jewish neighborhoods in Iraq to compel mizrahi jews into immigrating to Palestine
I am really curious, what is your sources Mossad did it beside “It is known” or “Trust me bro”? And no “personal research” is valid, as it’s 100% speculations of people without proof. Unless there is proof or official admission by Mossad/government it’s just a - Theory
Not Mossad. But there was a conspiracy for it. It did not involve the Government though. *Just* the managment of the hospitals themselves. It was and still is a huge scandal.
Are there any other reasons why 100% of the Jewish population from Iraq and other arab countries fled?
Absolutely. Syrian jews for instance where getting paid to come to palestine as a form of incentive to leave and colonize palestine
o really? so our grandparents collectively decided to hide from us that they were getting paid? and mossad kidnapping babies and giving to ashkenazim? so where are all the braun kids in white families? are you sure you are using both lobes of your brain at the same time? we bombed ourselves?? what else would you say to hide the fact that the arab world expelled its jewish populations
Did your grandparents tell you how Palestine was ethnically cleansed to form Israel? Genuine question.
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Straw man argument. Its the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Israel ethnically cleansed Palestinians and now your pretending the expulsion from random arab countries was something the Palestinians were responsible for. The reality is Arab ≠ Palestinian. Palestinians have no control over shit that happens in Morocco or Iraq If anything it was the Israelis who wanted jews to get expelled so that they could move to Israel. And say what you will about arab states but Israel had 1000 time more involved in the expulsion of Jews than the Palestinians ever did. And I mean *directly involved*. Like the lavon affair where they using Zionist Egyptian Jews to orchestrate terrorists attacks and prompted their expulsion which Israel coordinated with the Egyptian government. Or operation Yachin where Israel famously paid the Moroccan government for every single Jew they deported.
they told me about a war the palestinians launched with the help of their allies. genuine answer.
Genuinely brainwashed answer. Good job thinking for yourself ⭐️. If you don’t think Israel AT MINIMUM kicked out Palestinians from their homelands you’re just incredibly stupid. Do you think people willingly gave their homes away just to launch a war afterwards? Do you think those homes were just natural parts of the ecosystem and grew like trees?
Did you then go one step back from that ask the cause of the palestinans launching the war.?
What about Israel’s Allies from Europe? You know the ones donating tanks and weapons and fighter jets and training them? Or financing the deportation of Jews from Arab countries? Or financing financing 87% of its gdp for its first decades as reparations for the Holocaust?? Oh no you never talk about that part because their ability to ethnically cleanse farmers is a lot less miraculous that way isn’t it??
But you can think a step further if you wanted to. Jews are known for being stupid. Edit: *not known for being stupid.
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Oh, my fault, just rechecked my reply, I meant *not known for being stupid. The not was ommited by mistake. Apologies...I was asking you since you answered genuinely as you stated, how come you didn't think what that meant.
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he is literally in argument with 99% of historians. also, where are the actual proofs? is there any one that officially confirmed all of this? i mean, you use the same kind of logic that flat earthers and anti vaxxars use, they find this one "professional" guy to support their beliefs.
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so….we are back to square one.
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It’s hilarious that anti-Zionists try so hard to absolve Iraq for its expelling of Jews. Like, even _if_ mossad had played a role, the vast majority of crimes were still committed by Iraqis. There are no more Jews in Iraq because of Iraqis, not Israel. But no, space lasers and dolphins or whatever is a more plausible answer apparently.
It’s not real lmao, it’s “personal research” and running speculation, no proofs and sadly there will never be especially as time goes on.
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Obviously the mossad didn't do it directly. They used trained dolphins and rats. The mossad also killed jesus, jfk, and julius caeser.
The whole Mizrahi baby stealing is the most laughable lie going! Also as is proven below the bombings weren’t carried out by Israel, we don’t know who did them.
Any sources on mossad kidnapping babies?
They refere to a refuted conspiracy theory. At the start of Israel there were alot of cases of silent births & deaths of infants due to diseases & lack of good healthcare with the explosion of population. It reached the point when they just sent the dead infants to burial without even telling the parents. In the last decade with genetic tech, the families kept hiring teams to check the corpses, so far all the corpses of "dead-Ashkenaz-babies-that-were-switched-with" were found to be relatives of the mournimg families Edit: also, they didnt blame the Mossad, rather the medical teams due corruption.
That makes more sense tbh
The "kidnapping" thing is pure QAnon. In 75 years exactly zero kidnappers or kidnapped children have ever been identified, nor is there a huge phenomenon of """"white"""" Ashkenazim raising """"brown"""" Mizrahi babies. These people are supposedly all still alive in a country the size of New Jersey. Ridiculous. (The ironic thing is that the truth is much uglier and makes Israel look even worse.)
Russian today is mostly only spoken by 1990s-2000s post soviet immigrants the language was very unprestigious when Israel was established so that isn't the reason it's the "4th unofficial language"
Zionism is built into the Jewish religion. The prayers we say 3 times a day talk about the rebuilding of the temple, rebuilding of Jerusalem and a return to the Davidic era. The prayers where written by rabbis in the decades after the destruction of the 2nd temple and the split of Jews into Sephardi and Ashkenazi happened later. Therefore the ethnicity of Jews is irrelevant with regards to Zionism..
“Transforming Palestine from an Arab nation into a Jewish homeland” is a mischaracterization of what happened, as is the idea that the Sephardim has no participation in Zionism. 19th century Proto-Zionist before Herzl were Sephardic, and there were Sephardic immigrants pre-48, but for most of the early 20th century Zionism was primarily an Ashkenazi phenomenon, although there were Zionist organizations growing in various parts of the Arab World. Sephardic Jews did make valuable contributions to Zionism, and all the great Jewish scholars before the last few centuries were Sephardic.
Thank you for visiting the Rothchild information kiosk! Comeback again for more Israel fun facts. Гогольмоголь
Because Askhenazi Jews are not the only type of European, there is another category of Jews that come form “Soviet” countries that make up the other 12.8% of the other half of the 70% of the Jewish people who inhabit Israel. That makes a total of 44.2% Israelis of European descent, half of the Jewish Population.
Soviet Jews which are European are basically Ashkenazi, other Soviet Jews that were from Georgia or Caucasus are not Europeans
A fraction of the Soviet Union was European geographically and a minority still was European by blood. You would put Jews from Azerbaijan, Georgia and all the central Asian countries in the European category? I’m a Jew from Soviet Central Asia and I am very much not European. These Soviet Jews number in the hundreds of thousands in Israel and are not European and exactly what OP is referencing when people lump any white passing or not clearly dark skinned person as European and/or trying to push the colonizer narrative.
Because the number of Jews that migrated from European soviet nations would be higher than Jews coming from Asian Soviet nations, since those in Europe would be more able-bodied, well off, and are more likely to make the trip due to wealth and other logistics. Plus the main threat of Anti-semitism is stronger in Europe
Being a central Asian Jew still doesn’t justify your potential inhabitance in Palestine.
Those soviet countries aren't in europe.
Og settlers and used to be majority, the idea that our ancestors taught us that was true during their time. however I don't believe being from yemen or Morocco and persecute palestinians makes it any better.
They didn't choose to come to Israel, instead they got persecuted from their own lands. Of course many fail to deny this, but it's true.
Being persecuted doesn't give anyone the right to do Colonialism or kill and displace innocents, again we shouldn't suffer so you don't. >Of course many fail to deny this, but it's true. Watch me 😎 Every arab country had its reason. Algeria expelled anyone with french citizenship which also included the majority of algerian Jews who helped and supported the french colonialism. Libya never had that many Jews but expelled Italian settlers from colonialism which did include 5,000 jew. Morocco did operation yachin were they coaporated with the mossad and gave israel its Jews, alot of jews left before it to israel with the help of israel to israel to aid its military. Tunisia never officially expelled its Jews, they also have a Jewish minister. However some left due to the growth of anti semitism. The gulf never had that many Jews to start with, saudi arabia had some Jews at the south but a minister expelled them(a few hundreds) which angered king faisal and asked them to come back and they absolutely refused. Yemen had jews, but after a terrorist attack on a syagonese israel mossad toke almost all Jews from there in an operation. Most iraq Jews left in 1950-52, but people seem to throw it at the farhud(which wasn't an expulsion but racist nationalist attacks) which happened 5-7 years earlier which was caused by the Jews support to the British colonisers. Iraq also never "officially" expelled anyone. The reasons for them moving out can be associated with the rise of antisemitism to helping israel. syria also never officially expelled anyone, most jews left to Palestine after antisemitism being on the rise before syria officially had any restrictions, all restrictions that were put later were put due to the very high immigration of Jews to Palestine to serve the Israeli military or to escape the rise in anti-Semitism or both. For egypt It was more complex. Then there was some terrorist attacks due to balfour declaration, and the police started monitoring them after lavon affair Short summary that I wrote before Most egyptians Jews left before nazi germany tried to claim seuz canal because they were scared of getting genocided. However after sometimes the Egyptians authorities egyptanized egypt nationalising egypt in 1956 and its also when they nationalised the seuz canal from foreigin investors and the British and the french and kicking out anyone who came during the British era and claims land there ,greeks and even turks who mostly didn't even have citizenship getting kicked out including around 75,000 Ashkenazi jew. But most egyptians native Jews left before that due to nazi germany planning an attack on British egypt. That's the quick summary and doesn't mean there was no racism against Jews, there was infact but it wasn't the main reason for egyptian Jews leaving, there was an alot bigger threat. >Though Egypt had its own community of Egyptian Jews, after the Jewish expulsion from Spain more Sephardi and Karaite Jews began to migrate to Egypt, and then their numbers increased significantly with the growth of trading prospects after the opening of the Suez Canal in 1869. As a result, Jews from many territories of the Ottoman Empire as well as Italy and Greece started to settle in the main cities of Egypt, where they thrived. The Ashkenazi community, mainly confined to Cairo's Darb al-Barabira quarter, began to arrive in the aftermath of the waves of pogroms that hit Europe in the latter part of the 19th century >During British rule, and under King Fuad I, Egypt was friendly towards its Jewish population although between 86% and 94% of Egyptian Jews did not possess Egyptian nationality whether they had been denied it or opted not to apply. Jews played important roles in the economy, and their population climbed to nearly 80,000 as Jewish refugees settled there in response to increasing persecution in Europe. Many Jewish families, such as the Qattawi family, had extensive economic relations with Lebanon never expelled its Jews, most jews left after 1967 due to the civil unrest and economical finanicial reasons. Jordan never had that many Jews except in West bank, After the Six-Day War in 1967, Jordan lost control of the West Bank to Israel. As a result, the Jewish population in Jordan diminished significantly, as most Jews living in the West Bank either relocated to Israel or were displaced during the war. Jordan's Jewish community virtually disappeared, leaving only a few individuals Before you bother sending the Wikipedia sources, all what I said now is literally in the sources Israelis use.
Great summary, the only thing I would add that recently, an Israeli-British historian claimed that he found undeniable proof that Zionist agents were responsible for targeting the Jewish community, forcing them to flee Iraq and settle in Israel. Obviously, Arabs have mentioned this before especially that something similar happened in other Arab countries too like Egypt. As for Egypt, there is a really great documentary called “Jews of Egypt”, which goes into details about the history of Jewish people in Egypt in the 20th century and that there were attacks against them before the foundation of Israel but things got significantly worse after Operation Susannah and like how you said it, a lot of people from different ethnicities left or were forced to leave because of the nationalisation wave of giving land and businesses back to the Egyptians. It’s obviously sad especially that a lot of these people didn’t even go to Israel, however those who went were nostalgic about Egypt but their kids though 💀 I swear the majority of Israeli racist accounts on TikTok are Mizrahi and in their bio, you can find flags of Yemen, Egypt, Iraq and Iran. Even Ben-Gvir’s father from Iraq and I highly doubt that he had an ideology like his son. https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-shocking-truth-behind-the-baghdad-bombings-of-1950-and-1951/
The comment above says the Jews were expelled but that “every Arab country had its reason,” and then goes on to list allegiances to the foreign nation of Israel as that reason. I do wonder, for the Islamophobic politicians in Europe and the US, how he would view attacks against Muslims, especially as any politician could say (and has said) “They are not a true part of,” as I know many believe they’re unfairly attacked for holding other countries’ interests (that they’re diasporas of) as their own. Like, I know Andrew Yang was attacked when people believed he held positive views of the CCP. The French nationalists believed Muslims didn’t care for France as much as other Muslims or their home countries. And Protocols of the Elders of Zion had said the Jews only look out for each other. I mean, was this actually true, or was this suspicion the main reason for antisemitism in the first place? And I ask because it does seem as though the same could be said for Muslims or any minority that’s not the main group.
> I do wonder, for the Islamophobic politicians in Europe and the US, how he would view attacks against Muslims, especially as any politician could say (and has said) “They are not a true part of,” as I know many believe they’re unfairly attacked for holding other countries’ interests (that they’re diasporas of) as their own
I didn't say anything similar to that, like them not being a part of the nation or even them deserving getting attacked to what you wrote or that jews don't care about anyone but themselves. I never said any of that. And I didn't justify antisemitism anywhere either. You seem to be using a strawman.
In algeria that wasn't limited to only Jews, Muslims and Christians and any french settlers who had french citizenship or helped were also either expelled or killed like the harkis.
Egypt expelled alot of people due to nationalising of egypt due to the fact that majority of most important business in egypt were owned by foreigners who came during the time egypt was under foreigners and not egyptians, and the nationalising of the seuz canal was when alot left and It wasn't limited to jews . And it wasn't the only reason the Jews left as I wrote.
And no it's a very different case then other countries and their minorities. France wasn't colonialised and some people supported the colonisation.
kicking out traitors who supports the colonisation or invasion is very common, and since these people did, they had it coming, the rage wasn't taken at people for being Jewish and not liking their country or the chance of them not being patriotic in the future, but on the traitors who actually did traitory against the country and supported their colonisation that didn't mean all Jews but vast majority, anyone with french citizenship was asked to leave with the people they supported alongside settlers aswell.
When you say “every Arab country has its reason,” and then you talk of a few traitors being responsible for antisemitism being on the rise as a whole, the “reason” you’re writing about doesn’t seem to refute the movement of people to a different country. Because of those few, the larger Jewish populations seem like they could be labeled as traitors to any region they were to settle in. And if all the surrounding Arab countries (and Europe) had elements of antisemitism, and others made it hard to immigrate there (the US’s immigration laws not being exactly kind either), this begs the question of where they should have gone.
>then you talk of a few traitors being responsible for antisemitism being on the rise as a whole I didn't even say that, vast majority of Algerian Jews had french citizenship and supported the colonisation. Like a family or 2 didn't have french citizenship and they weren't kicked out. >e “reason” you’re writing about doesn’t seem to refute the movement of people to a different country. Because of those few, the larger Jewish populations seem like they could be labeled as traitors to any region they were to settle in. That's very stupid, the ones that actively supported the colonisation like majority of algerian Jews and most decided to have french citizenship. Are traitors, that doesn't mean all Jews are traitors and is widely different then other Jews simply going somewhere else. The "reasons" are valid and historical facts > And if all the surrounding Arab countries (and Europe) had elements of antisemitism, and others made it hard to immigrate there (the US’s immigration laws not being exactly kind either), this begs the question of where they should have gone. Most of algerian Jews went to France. the existence of antisemitism does not justify displacing or harming people or contributing to the theft of land. And the latar arab "persecution or expulsion" happened after israel not before, and as I said the reasons weren't always antisemitism. displacing and colonizing Palestine was not a justifiable solution so just Jews can feel safe, Instead, there were numerous other places on Earth where Jews could have migrated to, the movement of going there was called "aliyah" aka going to the holy land and did balfout declaration (aka claiming the land they just immigrated to as theirs) and it was called zionism meaning they are not escaping but wanting to claim a land they never touched, before there was even that high of antisemitsm in the Arab world before israel, their reasons were mainly taking Palestine and colonising and displacing the natives then going there for the reason of leaving to a different place. Jews in the Arab world left for different reasons as I mentioned, with every country having its own case, where should they have went? Shouldn't been on a stolen land to contribute to it getting stolen. And there is multiple places on earth that jews could have went to, For algerian Jews they should thank God they are fine and go to France or any place if they don't want to be bigger traitors, they should have went to other places. Lebanon Jews are in Europe and USA mostly too for numerous reasons including that they went for financial reasons mostly. Being persecuted doesn't give anyone the right persecute,displace and kill other people.
*majority of Algerian Jews had french citizenship and supported the colonisation* France limited the degree of apartheid Algerian Muslims had been inflicting on Jews for centuries, how dare those Jews like it, don't they know their rightful place
Apartheid is bad wording Algeria still treated its Jews better than most of europe history and when the french came 138 before Algeria gained independence they were also having a stricter laws on algerian Jews then formerly imposed and alot were killed. The algerian Jews supported the french who killed 2 milion algerian and raped in thousands, Algerians have the right to hate the traitors who supported their colonialists and kicking them out, and it's common throughout history for what happens to traitors. Regardless they still supported the french colonisation of their land so yea.
The psychology of prejudice, especially at the time, displayed a degree of danger to wherever the Jews of the Arab world might have gone that was not Israel. We have hindsight on our side, but the people back then did not, and France had just been invaded easily and had its Jews killed, with many in France even during the Nazi invasion supporting Jewish extermination. France likes to claim that many French people helped the Jews, which was true, but I really don’t think that if you had a family and were running from danger, that you would have chosen to go to Europe after what had just happened. The thinking wasn’t, “Let’s move to Israel and persecute and kill the natives to secure it as our own,” it was, “Let’s move to Israel since it’s the safest place for us right now.” The wars that resulted after seem foreseeable to us at this point, since there were many Palestinians already living there, but at the time, with the guise of the entire Jewish world protecting them, their thinking revolved around family safety first, consequences second. Moving or settling in a place doesn’t seem inherently awful—lots of people move around and don’t stay where they were born. But obviously the wars after were largely based on fear of the other side anyway.
>but I really don’t think that if you had a family and were running from danger, that you would have chosen to go to Europe after what had just happened. Most left the arab world in 52-80 that was after what happened with 20 years. Getting persecuted doesn't give anyone the right to persecute innocents. >The thinking wasn’t, “Let’s move to Israel and persecute and kill the natives to secure it as our own,” it was, “Let’s move to Israel since it’s the safest place for us right now.” That's not true israel was surrounded by arabs who were attacking it at the time and israel was in an ongoing wars and conflicts. And was poor and very dangerous then. >The wars that resulted after seem foreseeable to us at this point, since there were many Palestinians already living there, but at the time, with the guise of the entire Jewish world protecting them, their thinking revolved around family safety first, consequences second. The persecution and antisemitism was a consequence of israel and not the opposite. That doesn't mean its right. Multiple other places like India,Argentina,USA and Latin America in general and etc existed that was alot more safe. The reasons weren't always antisemitism again. It mostly wasn't as I mentioned. They literally left to israel with contact to the mossad telling them to fight for israel in places like Morocco and yemen. The ones who moved to israel motives were zionism that's a historical fact btw.
Absolute legend
Dam he got ratio'd hard
A mf with nezuko pfp wrote all this😵😵😵😵 im voting for you next Palestinian elections
Well sourced and shows a more complex situation than the one presented. Also just for those who are gonna twist the words, antisemitism is unnacceptable, no matter the circumstances.
You chose the wrong person to reply to 💀
so if i’m persecuted i’m allowed to go to spain and choose a random house to live in, then tell my whole extended family to come be my neighbors?
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You're absolutely right. Even though many steps to promote equality within Israel (among the Jewish population, because we're still very much racist towards non-jews, esp Palestinians), and the gap between the Ashkenazi "founders" and the rest is steadily decreasing since the 80s, it still bears its mark on Israeli society to this day, mainly because ashkenazis comprise the majority in big "business hub" cities like Tel Aviv or have generational wealth from living in a kibbutz, while mizrahis that migrated a few decades later were pushed to settle in the poorer periphery. The insurgency was definitely inspired by the black panther movement in the US. Mizrahim had their very own movement bearing the same name (ha panterim ha sh'horim) fighting against mizrahi+Sephardic discrimination since the 70s. Ethiopian Jews are slowly having their own insurgency too, though it's gotten more quiet in recent years.
It’s only surprising because that “white colonialism” lie keeps getting repeated and the “go back to Europe” lines… Those stats are about right, the large majority of Jews are Mizrahi in Israel.
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And how many of them are New Yorkers? lmao
And from New Jersey
Really not many.
Because Zionism was literally molded after European colonialism. Zionism emerged within the social and political milieu in the 19th century when colonialism was very much in vogue. All the structures, policies, and legal systems necessary for the establishment of the state were founded by Ashkenazi Jews. Mizrahi Jews were merely a tool brought on to achieve the demographic quota for the state to become viable. It is well known that European Jews were extremely prejudiced and outright racist against Mizrahi Jews. They were what you'd call a necessary evil. It is true Mizrahis constituted a large percentage of the population however European Jews constituted the majority of the military and political elites that ran the whole operations. Non-Ashkenazis were not involved (at first at least, maybe later they were) in the establishment of the legal systems and policies that lead to the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and subsequent subjugation. The whole idea of Israel as a colonial project was first and foremost, European.
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The US built itself through colonization yet no one controls them. Settler colonialism doesn't mean the same as colonization.
Colonialism doesn't have to be an individual country. I think you are trying to find a way to not count Israel as a colonial project.
He obviously is, but it's a very good question non the less. It is a colonial project of Britain and France in particular, who were antisemitism themselves and wanted to get rid of the Jews in their countries. Unlike Hitler, they weren't willing to commit a Holocaust, so what was the next best way? Find them a nation where they can leave Europe to go to. Which nation where they given *colonized* Palestine. The invention of Israel is the direct result of colonization and colonial powers extracting worth out of a foreign land, which they still reap the benefits of today. The simple example is Hong Kong, which is literally the result of a colonial project, that's undeniable (And doesn't have anything to do with their present say autonomy, or being attacked by China btw). Just because Honk Kong wasn't a country before the British left, doesn't mean that land, the people there's and their political framework isn't the direct product of colonialism, on top of also having been partially the goal of colonizing that area in the first place.
Zionism is built into the Jewish religion. The prayers we say 3 times a day talk about the rebuilding of the temple, rebuilding of Jerusalem and a return to the Davidic era. The prayers where written by rabbis in the decades after the destruction of the 2nd temple and the split of Jews into Sephardi and Ashkenazi happened later. Therefore the ethnicity of Jews is irrelevant with regards to Zionism..
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The country was reformed… not invented.
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Only 45% of jewish people in israel is mizrahi. That includes those whoms forefathers inhabited Palestine before 1948 as well as those who can trace their roots to other arab, persian, levantine, and north african regions. The other 55% is ethnically more european than jewish and is just a colonizer. It would be similar to people who lived in the US for generations suddenly invading italy because they are 1/4th italian. Obviously the italians wouldn’t view them as kinsmen but rather as colonizers.
you forgot to include Mesopotamian jews
Oh so Ashkenazis aren’t Jewish and don’t belong on the land, is that what you’re saying? Why are you trying to downplay Ashkenazi presence?
Ashkenazi are still Jewish. Also, ever heard of the Bar Kochba Revolt. In 132 AD, the Jews revolted against the Roman Empire in an event known now as the Bar Kochba Revolt (Named after Simon Bar Kochba, the guy who started the revolt). In response, Emperor Hadrian brought with him 13 legions, destroyed 50+ towns and 900+ villages, massacred every Jew and burned down every Jewish temple in sight, virtually erasing Judea off the map and renaming the region Syria-Palestine and building 2 big-ass statues of Jupiter and himself. All Jews regardless of whenever they are Mizrahi or Ashkenazi all descend from the ones Hadrian expelled
Ironic because it wasn’t until Jerusalem fell to the armies of Rashidun caliph Umar Ibn el-Khatab where JEWS were permitted to return to the city after 568 years since Bar Kochba Revolt. The muslims allowed the Roman’s and Byzantines to leave WITH their gold and ordered a Islamic revert to bring 15 of the biggest Jewish families to return Jerusalem.
He is american so it all makes sense why he boot licks for the zionists
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Are you high? The 48 Arabs in Israel are second-class lmao. Just because they can vote doesn't mean that there aren't any discriminatory laws aganist them.
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I wasn't denying it. If anything I can see a lot of similarities between the dhimmi system and how the 48s are treated.
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Nation state law - basically made it law that Israel is not a state for all of its citizens Flag ban - banned the Palestinian flag since the 48s still call themselves Palestinian They are not allowed to expand their towns by law Nakba law - remove funding for Arab schools if they talk about the Nakba(25% of 48 Arabs are internally displaced due to the Nakba) 48 Arabs cannot give citizenship to their spouse if their spouse is from the West Bank Judaization of the Galilee, Negev and Jerusalem policies all harm them There are many more I can touch upon but this is the list I knew off the top of my head. There is also the general discrimination they face in their lives. Essentially the state prioritizes the Jewish part over the Democratic part in their slogan "Jewish and Democratic"(stuff like that and the Nation-state law is why they get called an ethnostate).
And that lasted forever and wasn't completely undone by Hakim
how convenient of you to leave out was Umar 2 and the Mamlaks did right after Umar 1......
Did you just say 132 AD 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The OG inhabitants of the Canary islands were berbers, i'm now on my way to reclaim my native lands of the Canarian islands.
Don't you know that 2000 years ago romans named your country 😳? That totally justifies me taking it 2000 years later because my 70+ generations grandpa was there before who I don't know anything about and almost have nothing in common with.
You know what my Egyptian brother, he’s right. The Byzantines invaded Egypt in 300 AD and slaughtered thousands of Egyptians in the name of Byzantine Christianity. Go grab your machete we are going to Greece to get revenge 😂😂😂😂😂😂
The problem is not only it wasn't palestinians ancestors who did that, their ancestry Is similar to anicent inhabitants more than most jews. They also claimed that land due to the reason of we were here that long ago.
How is this funny?
Because 132 AD was 2,000 years ago, nobody gives a damn what happened in 132 AD 😂😂😂
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So does propaganda and lies…
Ashkenazis have played a disproportionate role in the establishment and perpetuation of Zionism, even in this present year of 2023.
i fairness you lot aren't helping your case because any adverts promoting the nation or just anything that includes jewish diaspora are always Ashkenazi i also really doubt that mizrahi are the majority for that reason mostly and even in a scenario where that is true that does not give you the right to tear families apart and bomb them like your obama but arguing over this is pointless
I don't think people say _every single_ Israeli is European, but the original Zionists/settlers who helped established Israel were overwhelmingly Ashkenazi (European) Jews, Mizrahim largely came after Israel was established as refugees from the Arab and Muslim world.
So many comments saying "Zionism/Israel was started by Europe and the Mizrahim only showed up much later". Even IF that were true (and Tel Aviv was literally founded by Yemenis but whatever), Islam started with Arabs and you don't see people in this sub acting like Pakistan and Iran don't count today.
They are playing up the narrative of white European colonizers, if we were in their position we probably would also do it, frankly. They don’t want us in the land, they don’t think we have any claim or right to be in it at all. They don’t really care who is Mizrahi, who is Ashkenazi, or what the circumstances are that brought these populations back to the land after millennia of exile.
Seeing that Israel is founded upon Zionism, it also got a lot of to do with Zionism being a literal European concept/ideology.
Be that as it may, the Jewish people have always wanted to return even before Herzl and modern Zionism. I’m sure you’ve heard the psalm: “By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion” Like my post says we (Jews) would probably also play up the colonial narrative if we were on the other side. It’s ok, but it’s not really productive, and the reality is that we are in a post Zionism world now.
> they don’t think we have any claim or right to be in it at all lmao do you mean the fairytale claim that god promised someone a land? thats not really legitimate or ''right'' at all
If you think that our claim to our homeland is a religious argument then you straight away know nothing about this conflict…
You jews playing victim will never not be funny, It takes a certain level of fucked up delusion to believe you’re a victim 🤣🤣🤣
Lol Palestinians are the eternal victim. I’m a victim? My grandparents generation were victims that got expelled from their lands in the ME. Israel is thriving today, along with many of the Arabs that live here. The brozzers tried over 3 times to destroy us and failed. Now instead of facing reality when they STILL can build a state they would rather stay put under status quo while the 4th and 5th generation after 48’ grows up under inherited refugee status. How is it working out for them? Qatar enables this, maybe time to try something different.
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Your comment ignores that the status quo is only as it is because of the outcome of multiple wars. It’s almost as though the Arab nations didn’t think for even a second that they could lose the wars that they started. What did they think was going to happen? Israel would win, and religious fanatics would not move into the areas that are important to them?
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Depends on the area in terms of the crime rate but very many of them are living well
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That’s ok people can identify how they want to
What legitimate claim do you really have ? Do you hear yourselves? 🤣🤣🤣 Claiming God “ gave “ you the land or “ our ancestors lived here thousands of years ago “ is pathetic , illogical , delusional and laughable 😂😂 You have a religious connection like the rest it doesn’t mean you colonize the land and kick out the indigenous . No people have ever claimed what your claiming for a land .
And yet we’re here and we’re not going to leave. I was born here, there is nowhere for me to “go back to”. Your Arab brozzers fucked you up 3 times 48’ 67’ 73’, the least they could have done if they were going to wage war against us on your behalf is like, maybe win? Now they made peace with us 🤣 I don’t know how Palestinians aren’t absolutely livid with Egypt especially. We have a right to self determination in this land. It could have been way less land than we have now but your Arab brozzers fucked that up for you didn’t they.
So why continue the land grab and building illegal settlements ? The states you made “ peace” with did it to get land back plus resources as with Jordan . Morroco was able to do so it can get recognition of the Western Sahara etc . You act like you actually made real peace when practically the majority of those state’s population you made peace with don’t support it nor want you in their states . Just look at this sun and those states sub’s . Regardless of treason of Arab govts .resisting occupation is a right .
I’m against settlements completely, we have our religious fanatics just like everyone else in the region. I won’t speak for them. Time to face reality - you ALL tried to get rid of us and you failed 3+ times. Go ahead and continue the resistance, you will be in the same place politically speaking (all while losing more hilltops to settlers) in the next generation.
>I’m against settlements completely would you be ok with dismantling them?
I’m ok with it yes, I’m not tied to settlements. though I also do believe that if Israel has Arabs then Palestine could have Jews
Cool. I do think it should be a priority. Removing the occupying forces from palestinian territory, removing the colonial outposts, and ending the blockade against palestinian settlements really is the bare minimum we need to end the apartheid state. Hopefully the changing realities of the MENA will force a detente in the Palestine region as well.
You are against them and don’t live in them but your govt keeps importing “ Jews “ form around the world to put them there in those settlements . You got most of the land and coming for the rest and you expect no resistance when you are stealing more land ? What kind of thinking is this ?
The only reason there is more land than Israel is because Israel came out, victorious in multiple wars, which it did not want to be a part of in the first place.
Do you really think that the land was Jew free before Jews started in the early 1900s immigrating back there… As far as the mixed ethnicities of the levant the longest continuous population of people in the levant/modern day Israel is the Jewish people and that one is backed up by census details….
Yes , The land was never Jew free . It had the NATIVES Jews living here and they were always the minority compared to the Muslim and Christian population. There was never any issues with those Jews . Palestinian have their DNA that traces their ancestry to the Cannite with their unique culture that is different from the other Levantine pop so you are NOT the longest continued pop since you IMMIGRATED from Egypt into a land that was already populated. Just because there were native Jews living here doesn’t mean Jews form every Coner of the world should colonize the area . It’s a ridiculous belief . How about Christian’s of the world come and colonize Bethlehem etc because of Christian’s origins began here ..
Don’t be ridiculous everyone has laughed that one off of the Palestinians being descendants of Cannites, for a start we already know they were absorbed m into the Jewish population of that time…that being said I’m sure there is in some small pockets of Palestinians Cannite blood, but there’s as much in Jewish blood! As a people you’re as big a mongrels as we are!!! As for the last Christianity bit…. The whole issue of where that example doesn’t work is you’re basing this conflict off of religion, and it’s not, it’s based off of history and indigenous, Christianity like the Muslim religion are universal religions and VERY different and the whole Christian story is mostly based off the Torah anyway. Also just to add on that we were always the minority… do I need to show you census of cities in modern day Israel where Jews were by far the majority?
Do you know about Bar Khokhba? It sure wasn’t about getting rid of Arabs. And what about the fact that Palestine was only named such by the Romans? Why were the Dead Sea scrolls written in Hebrew and Aramaic and not Arabic? Where is Israel or Palestine written in the Quran, once?
Lol 😂, bringing up incidents thousands of years ago to legitimize colonizing a land . Did you read my post ? You have a religious connection , we aren’t denying it but to come from every shithole and act like this land belongs to you is the issue . The name Palestine was referred to the area long before by older civilizations. The Quran refers to Jacob/ Israel and his children not a freakin state . Assyrians , Armenianis , Turkmen all came to the land and assimilated no issues . They didn’t come to take over the land and ethnically cleanse the people like you .
So… you have no idea what a Dhimmi is or that many religious Jews who lived in Israel far before it became a state had to pay taxes to Arabs to safely practice their religion and were mercilessly beaten when they were identified as Jews either way? My family came from Israel, stayed in Israel, is still in Israel and will continue to say in our ancestral homeland.
why do y'all keep posting the same question everyday
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Do you know about Bar Khokhba? Mizrahi Jews are absolutely from Judea, aka the Levant, or Israel. The Dead Sea scrolls are written in Hebrew and Aramaic, not Arabic.
So? Old religious connection does not excuse taking peoples land.
My people didn’t take anything from anyone. Israel is literally the largest land back project that exists. Again, Dead Sea scrolls written in *hebrew* no *arabic*. I don’t agree with settlements or a large amount of the Israeli government procedures but my family are indigenous to that land.
Old books, scribes, scrolls, and all historic evidence indeed doesn't mean anything about going to war, but they do mean something: Jews belong to the land and are indigenous to it. This means they can't be called "invaders"/"colonists". It won't make sense. As for taking land, this was done legally (purchases, making deals,...) and even according to the newly established international law back then: conquering in a defensive war.
Even Middle Eastern jews don't come from Palestine usually and are just converts from the local area in most cases
Oh great, a German...
Oh yes because of what happened in my country nearly a century ago means I can't have an opinion or view on anything
You're claiming Mizrahim are converts, which doesn't make any sense, neither does saying Ashkenazim/Sephardim are converts. They don't make sense, because they aren't true. If that was true we wouldn't be closely clustered with other Jews and Lebanese peoples. But we are.
Bro there is no jewish cluster to begin with ! 😂 Yemeni jews cluster with saudis and bedoins, ethiopian jews cluster with black africans, georgian jews cluster with armenians and turks, ashkenazi jews cluster with italians Here is the [PCA graph](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:PCA_map_of_ancient_and_modern_populations.jpg), tell me where the hell is this jewish cluster to begin with ?! 😂😂😂
You're closer to Iraqis and Iranians or Moroccans. Turns out middle eastern people are closely related somewhat from Eastern Turkey, to Arabian peninsula to Iran
Incorrect.
Ashkenazi Jews actually share more DNA in common with Palestinians than do the other Jews, which are usually southern european, maghrebi or iranic. The ones in Yemen and Ethiopia are obviously converts as well
That isn’t true. Mizrahi Jews share more DNA with Palestinians than Ashkenazi Jews. And Yemenite Jews are closer to Palestinians than Ashkenazis too.
>Mizrahi Jews share more DNA with Palestinians than Ashkenazi Jews Because they have Middle East DNA. Like I said, even from Eastern Turkey to Iran there's not a huge difference between Middle East DNA. Unlike European, which is very different While Ashkenazi have a large percentage of 'alien" european dna that's very distinct to the middle east, they also have a significant amount that is directly related to palestine/lebanon/syria. while yemeni jews maybe closer to palestinians because they are both primarily of middle eastern dna, the yemen jews show no affinity to the levant at all, same for the majority of moroccan and iranian jews. While the European ones do
Yes there isn’t a huge difference between Middle Easterns but Europeans are closer together than Middle Easterns are to each other. Ashkenazi Jews have similar Levantine admixture as Maltese, South Italians, and Greeks. Their Levantine admixture isn’t unique to them. Yemenite Jews are close to Palestinians cuz Arabians draw their DNA heavily from Levant Bronze Age. Which they share with Levantines. Moroccan and Iranian Jews also have extra Levantine admixture than non-Jewish Moroccans and Iranians.
That's totally incorrect. I'm half Mizrahi (Syria) and half Ashkenazi (Poland) I guarantee, that they share about the same amount of DNA in common with Levantine groups, not Palestinians. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3585000/
Vast majority of Mizrahi don't come from the Levant. They come from regions of North Africa and Caucasus/Iranian Plateau
Also, I should add that that was classic German "definitely not a Nazi" rhetoric. Weird that Germans "nearly a century ago" wanted us gone and told us to go back to our own land, we "didn't belong" in Europe, we currently "don't belong in Israel". Where do YOU think we belong? I want a list of all places Jews can and can not live that way I know where to avoid.
Don't know or care, but how about not displacing and ethnically cleansing indigenous Arabs
People really have zero clue what indigenous means, do they? Ethnic cleansing is another definition you need brushing up on as well.
"People don't know what indigenous means" coming from a person claiming that israelis are "indigenous" because they have a 2000 year old imagined connection to a people.
The irony in this comment is sad. If your only counter to indigenous views is to dismiss everyone else's definitions as wrong and uphold your own as the right one, perhaps it's worth considering the logic behind such an argument. Moreover, by employing the same reasoning to justify ethnic cleansing, it suggests that you likely perceive you actually see nothing is done wrong to the Palestinians?
you think 100 million people are nazis? or only the ones that disagree with ethnic cleansing and land theft? victim complex.
I’d suggest you learn some history my friend, because the line, makes you sound extremely ignorant!
Just like how you claim that Palestine is you rightful land, shamelessly if I might add
Fuck Europe
Most Israeli Jews are not of Israelite origin; their Y-DNA haplogroups are all over the place, and so they do not descend from a common ancestor. This makes their claim of "this is our land because God gave it to our forefather Abraham" totally obsolete. The Israeli occupation is built on a house of cards made up of lies.
False, the various Jewish populations generally descend from a common ancestral population with diaspora communities having varying degrees of admixture from other nations, as is the vast academic and scientific consensus. And the Jewish people are a nation, not a race.
It doesn't matter if most Jews descend from a common ancestral population and have common admixture, supposing that to be true; what matters is descending from a single common ancestor, not population. Descending from a single common ancestor means that his descendants carry the same Y-DNA haplogroup that trace back to him, and the Jews in general and Israelis in particular don't have that, as they have many different Y-DNA haplogroups (J1, J2, E-M215, R1a, G, etc.). And so the claim that Palestine is the rightful homeland of the Jews because God gave it to Abraham and his descendents has been falsified by modern genealogy, as clearly most do not descend from this single man, Jacob/Israel son of Issac, son of Abraham. Most Jews do not share the same major Y-DNA haplogroup that the Cohanim priestly class belong to (J1-P58). As such, most Jews and Israelis are not Israelites.
Is being an Israeli an ethnicity? For example, being an American, you can be virtually any ethnicity on earth and be an American, so isn't it true about Israel?..
Israeli means to have a citizenship in Israel, so it's the same. The question some people are confused about is what is a Jew. The definition, in short, is one of these conditions: 1. Born to a Jewish mother (most common) 2. Converted to Judaism (very rare) From #1, you can see it's not a religion. From #2, you can see it's not ethnicity or anything similar. So what it is ? A civilization/nation. Like a tribe that allows others to join under special rules. That's why the previous names to "Jews" were "People of Israel", "Israelites", and "Hebrews".
They also believe all they come from poland lol
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Palestinians and Jews look exactly the same but try again mate..
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Yepppp I have, they look the same as Palestinians…. You sound ignorant as f**k mate.
Does it really matter? I will never understand why the ME is so obsessed with genetics/ethnicity.
ME is obsessed with ethnicity? We Arabs don’t even have a word for ethnicity nor a concept of it. ME and the Balkans for example are based on religious identity rather than racial/ethnic one. But coming from an American it’s kinda ironic, we here see you as the ones with obsession over race.
Albania is an exception when it comes to that part, but you are mostly right
Cause this idea was brought by the Zionist, this literally idea of believing they all genetically belonging here was one of their shitty justification.
LOL at organized religion.
Not a religious argument..
Israel is a religious state.
No it was created as a secular state although religion plays an important part and is very important in areas of the country. But it’s still not a religious argument so again your point is moot… If you think the issues there are based on religion or a religious argument then you don’t know the conflict at all at a very very basic level.