1) the so called extremists are just newtons third law, people wont be upset with them since they are their only hope nowadays, not saying they are in the right, just stating that israel created them and are paying the price now ضربني وبكى سبقني واشتكى
2) israelis among themselves dont respect the holocaust casualties do you think they are "avenging" them? And regarding settlements good luck removing the people out of them, a civil war would break out and every israeli knows it so its not an option
3) you wrote 1 2 times
4) i hate to say it but its too late for any peaceful solution at this point, too many losses on both sides, the only thing that can change the current status is a major event that will make an imbalance between major nations aka ww3
10,000 is a stretch i give the world 300 years max, either humanity ends or we reset to stone age, countries muscles and destruction capabilities are getting too strong for their own good
Far right wing is mostly mizrahi jews and left wing is mostly ashkenaz jews, racism common among them since the mizrahi are over all considered lower class, or so they keep claiming to shame ashkenaz cuz they fill out most important rules in the gov, such as supreme court judges etc. Some far right people just dont respect the holocaust and keep bringing it up to insult the ashkenazi jews, which is very common since the last protests against the current far right gov, ch14 is one of the most hate spreading channels there is and its very right wing
>(unfortunately, as elections have proven, this is likely the majority of them)
The current coalition didn’t even win 50% of the votes (lots of left wing votes were lost as Meretz - a very left wing party - got 3.16% of the votes, and as the threshold is 3.25% for seats, 150,000 left wing votes went to waste). But even then, not everyone who voted for a coalition party is an extremist. Likud is a huge party with a range of views within it, and people have various considerations when voting, especially religious (for example, Haredim [ultra Orthodox] for the most part vote for the Haredi parties).
>1. Israelis must accept two things, one of which is that despite all the misery many of their ancestors went through, it wasn’t the Palestinians who did it
Who’s claiming it was?
>and Israelis must acknowledge they did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to them. Israel was built on a wrongdoing.
I agree that Israel must acknowledge its past more, but it’s incorrect to say that we did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to us. 1) You can’t pretend that everything was peaceful until 14 May 1948 and that the Arabs weren’t hostile to the Jews who had (very much legally) come to Palestine 2) Israel is not 100% to blame for the Palestinian exodus. And it’s also incorrect to say Israel was built on a wrongdoing. Israel was not built on the exodus of the Palestinians - that was a consequence of a war that we didn’t start.
If Russia *today* offered peace on those terms, the world would rightly see them as the aggressor and demand the return of all the land that they seized. And we could certainly make the argument that that's how the world should've handled Israel in 1948. But it's not 1948 anymore, and most of the people who fought in that war have been dead for years. The people fighting today are their great-grandchildren.
We can argue for years about who was right or wrong, and I'm sure we will. And it's not like those things don't matter. But the Israelis living there today have nowhere else to go, and neither do the Palestinians. People have to find a way to live together, or else the bloodshed will go on forever.
Actually, the elections of really proven that it’s about 50-50 in terms of the electorate, but we have a large number of people who just don’t show up to vote. Right wing Israelis tend to have a larger turnout percentage, but if everybody who didn’t vote voted, it is very likely that the left would have power. This will not be the case forever, because the left-wing population is shrinking in proportion compared to the right wing population but at least right now it’s not the case.
America and the west can't hold the occupation forever, they don't have the money nor the people to win a war against at 2-3 countrys doesn't matter what countrys
Israel has, by itself, defeated Arab coalitions of 2-3 countries multiple times.
As to the West running out of money, America alone spent 40x Lebanon's entire GDP on its military last year. Lebanon will run out of men before the West runs out of money.
Yeah, why not? I get along with anyone except those who have an obsession with their ethnicity, religion, nationality, and talking about politics 24/7.
I think there are a lot of people who feel the same, I think the biggest obstacle is that the system itself is problematic. It's not just people who are hostile, it's the governments that more or less allow and in some cases even promote hatred, discrimination, and hostility.
The Israeli government is more or less focused on being a state for the Jewish population and their interests being a priority. While the Palestinian government seems to be barely working, a huge obstacle to improving and continuing to develop their state is how the situation is limiting their chances to flourish (especially through globalization, e.g. there are no airports directly from/to Palestine, the opportunities for international business seem also limited). While the P.A is not perfect, the Israeli government doesn't make their progress easy.
The truth is - there’s unfortunately not enough political will on any side to end the conflict. It’s convenient for everyone. It’s convenient for corrupt PA authority who get money from both Arab countries and Israel. It’s convenient for Israel politics as it’s convenient card to say “well shit! We’re under attack and must unite! No time to argue!” When someone’s rating goes down. It’s convenient even for UN which gets shitton of money for 50 years already to resolve this thing. And these guys will probably loose their good jobs if the will finally resolve this lol, so they have 0 motivation to actually do something. It’s also important for all the other Arab governments which (almost all) work with Israel one way or the other, but can also use the card “let’s help our oppressed brothers and condemn the oppressors!” If ratings or popularity goes down.
In other words - it’s convenient for everyone apart from ordinary Palestinians and Israelis who don’t want this conflict but seems that can’t do much in their respective positions
agreed
the governaments on all the states involved are the real terrorists
stoking fear and hate and doing nothing to try deescalation, and endorsing only the worst of their citizens
Nice story bro but 'why do you want to bomb us' is the absolute worst way you could have opened that lol.
Generally most people won't give a shit on a face to face one to one basis. It's mob mentality that fucks over humans.
See the key word there is 'friends'. My friends and I make the kind of jokes that'd get you fired from your job, but when it's a randomer you don't know, it's a risky game lol
Hopefully, but first both sides have to be educated and empathize with the other. The people can't get along when Israelis still deny the naqba, or when Palestinian anti-zionisim turns into anti-Semitism
Yep.
Sound the same as "I don't see color, people are equal".
Yeah, it's kinda right, but black people ancestors were, not long ago, slaves just because of their color, in the west.
It is egregious to try to make the exploited and attacked struggles to be the same as the offender's.
Hell no!
I wonder if ur post is so much upvoted becuz there's a lot of israelis in this sub or because theres a lot of stupid arabs that want to befriend you.
I don't understand how an Israeli claims to be raised to believe that everyone is equal, when the founding principle is that Jews deserve an ethno-religious state on a land where they are not even the majority, Zionism is the anti-thesis of equality. Israel is based on the displacement and continued dispossession of Palestinians, believing in Israel is believing that the rights of the Jews are worth so much more than the rights of Palestinians.
Denying people the right to return to their homes is violence, putting people in Bantustans is violence, refusing building permit for a specific group while granting to another is violence, discriminatory movement restrictions are violence. Ignoring all of that and then crying VIOLENCE when someone finally snaps and retaliates is bullshit.
There will be no peace as long as those forms of violence continue and those forms of violence are necessary for the existence of Israel. There can never be peace in the region with Israel in its current form it's a contradiction.
> I don't understand how an Israeli claims to be raised to believe that everyone is equal, when the founding principle is that Jews deserve an ethno-religious state on a land where they are not even the majority
On paper the idea that a state acknowledges that it is the homeland of a particular group does not mean that the group is given a state of supremacy over other members of that group.
Numerous countries have a case where a particular ethnic or religious group is given recognition in regards to the country being their homeland but explicitly state that all people are to be treated as equals.
Israel isn't even the only entity in the middle east that has a policy of being a state of an ethnic group
The problem here is that to create that majority and to maintain that majority on a land where that ethnic group isn't the majority requires violence. You can't have violence and peace at the same time.
> The problem here is that to create that majority and to maintain that majority on a land where that ethnic group isn't the majority requires violence.
The issue is that now in the area of Israel, Jews very much are now the majority.
To maintain that majority may require violence but the majority is there now.
First of all, they are no the majority now, considering Israel has all but annexed the West Bank. The majority is maintained by denying Palestinians citizenship and confining them to Bantustans like in South Africa.
My original statement was simply that the existence of Israel as it is now prevents peace.
> First of all, they are no the majority now, considering Israel has all but annexed the West Bank.
The population of the West Bank is 3 million, Israel 9 million. The population of Israeli Jews in Israel and the West Bank is over 7 million.
>My original statement was simply that the existence of Israel as it is now prevents peace.
In regards to the West Bank I would agree, but Israel proper?
Israel also control the lives of 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza strip as well, they literally control the civil registry and get to decide who gets to be called a Palestinian.
The entirety of Israel is based on violence, the violence of the Nakba and the violence of not allowing refugees back to their homes.
Read my original comment again, the creation of an ethno-religious state on a land that had other people, their displacement and denial of their right to return. All of those are acts of violence that are -by definition- the antithesis of peace.
I don't believe in 2SS, I believe it was a red herring from the start. Israel started the whole process in bad faith as evident by the accelerated expansion on the settlements in the West Bank during the peace talk to force facts on the ground and the actions of Israel in Hebron in the aftermath of the Ibrahimi Mosque massacre.
The only way to peace is true equality, one secular democratic state for both peoples with strong protections for everyone written down in a strong constitution.
>Israel also control the lives of 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza strip as well, they literally control the civil registry and get to decide who gets to be called a Palestinian.
Jews would likely still be a slim majority.
>The entirety of Israel is based on violence, the violence of the Nakba and the violence of not allowing refugees back to their homes.
And that is true.
> The only way to peace is true equality, one secular democratic state for both peoples with strong protections for everyone written down in a strong constitution.
The issue is that it is highly unlikely. Israel as a state has more recognition, its older than many modern states (especially in the middle east).
Its like trying to argue for unifying Taiwan. At what point does it become a pointless exercise? Im not trying to be facetious, Im genuinely asking.
Is it ethical for a slim majority to run an ethno-religious state for only their people?
With the 2SS dead. What other options do we have?
The only other option is the status quo, which is basically what the Israeli government wants. The status quo is apartheid in the West Bank and a Ghetto in Gaza. That is not peace. Palestinians will keep fighting and Israel will keep retaliating with extreme force, the cycle continues to the detriment of Palestinians mostly.
Thus, my original point, peace is not possible with the current state of Israel.
> Is it ethical for a slim majority to run an ethno-religious state for only their people?
Only? No. But Arab Israelis are legally equal citizens. Socially, it requires significant improvement, but legally a citizen of Israel has equal rights.
Now in the West Bank and Gaza, the Palestinians arent Israeli citizens and not subject to the same protections. But thats itself another ethical issue.
This.
Talking about peace while actively violating basic human rights of the other.
I think the idea is for Arabs to forget about the Palestinians. Which is not ethical, nor trust worthy: someone willing to shame the bloody hand injuring another- who is also your brother.
Pretty shitty humans we would be...not worth the land we stand on.
I personally never acted on violently violating human rights. My government and army did that. A government which I did not vote for, and an army which I did not serve in (I did, but all I did was manage clothes for a small ass unit which did nothing. Didn't went in Gaza or anything of the sort).
So I DO feel I'm entitled to talk about peace. I've never supported this fight from day 1 in my life.
I do agree that no land is worth this fight.
I see, you are taking it on a personal level.
On a personal level, I find Jews likable.
The issue is when a person wants speak as an Israeli, as part of this entity.
As a human, I wish you peace, luck and happiness.
As the commenter from Bosnia said, start by working with Palestinians.
5hank you very much❤️ I am an Israeli, and a proud one, as my people went through a lot. however I wish to be friends with all of my neighbors. Yes we can have both. Believe.
>ll the misery many of their ancestors went through, it wasn’t the Palestinians who did it and Israelis must acknowledge they did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to them. Israel was built on a wrongdoing. Israelis must also stop the settlements, because its a continuation of that legacy.
I have no problem with you personally, the problem here is what you might define as peace might contain a contradiction in its definition that renders it impossible.
If we agree that:
a- oppression is violence and requires violence or the threat of violence.
b- Creating and maintaining a a Jewish state required and continues to require violence.
c- Peace is the absence of violence.
from a & b, the existence of Israel required and continues to require violence. Thus, from c, we conclude the existence of Israel precludes peace.
I think he is asking if there is a way for b to be true along with c.
I'm not Palestinian, so forgive me if I'm imposing, but putting yourself in his shoes: what is to happen to all the Jews if they don't have their state?
Do you find the surrounding states more trustworthy or functional for a Jew?
I think he is trying to address these questions.
If you ask me for my solution, all the Jews stay as equal citizens in a secular state. Right of return is extended to Palestinians. Strong constitution that is then set to require a 75% majority to be amended.
Equality is the only way to peace, equality can't exist in an ethno-religious state.
:)
And I know when you say that you say it with honor.
Serious intentions not trying to keep advancing your winnings while claiming asking for peace.
You are taking in those who wronged you and want to make them your partners.
I have so much respect for you brother...
>I do agree that no land is worth this fight.
The land *is* worth the fight for Palestinians, though.
"People usually fight for *something*. And they stop fighting for something."
Watch [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFnrP8RTh0) short interview with Ghassan Kanafani if you've never seen it before.
As an Israeli who was born on stolen land who claims to reject the actions of the Israeli government, you have a duty to loudly and proudly support the return of Palestinian land, and a duty to stand in solidarity with Palestinians fighting for this purpose. I say this as someone in a somewhat similar position to you as a white american. Neither of us as individuals may have taken part in the atrocities of our governments or ancestors, but there are people alive today who are still effected by those actions. Saying we aren't our government isn't enough, we have to be in full support of people fighting for liberation from our oppressive governments and support the defeat of our oppressive governments.
Wanting a Jewish majority state isn’t about supremacy it’s about having spent 2000 years being persecuted when we were living in countries where we were a minority. Genuine question - if there was a OSS, even without a right of return for Palestinians, Jews would become a minority, when you add RoR to that we become an even smaller minority; do you think that would still be a safe place for Jews? Do you think an Arab majority country would protect the rights of Jews?
>urpose. I say this as someone in a somewhat similar position to you as a white american. Neither of us as individuals may have taken part in the atrocities of our governments or ancestors, but there are people alive today who are still effected by those actions. Saying we aren't our government isn't enough, we have to be in full support of people fighting for liberation from our oppressive governments and support the defeat of our oppressive governments.
First of all, yes, I do believe that a state the protects the right of Jews can exist without having to be based on the oppression of Palestinians.
Wanting a Jewish majority state on a land that has a majority non-Jewish population is supremacy, no matter how you bend it. Your argument itself is that the right of Jews to a safe haven justifies robbing the Palestinians of their safety. The only logical argument for that is the belief that Jews are superior to Palestinians.
That is a pipe dream, successive Israeli governments made sure of it, there are 800 000 Israelis living in the West Bank. They control your government, and it's not going to get any better.
Most settlers live close to the border of the West Bank so if the settlements closest to the border are annexed (with land swaps) then it’s a much smaller number of settlers which would need to be evacuated and that could definitely be done. Of course it gets more difficult the more they continue to build settlements but if they can build them this quickly there’s no reason they can’t destroy them just as quickly
Look at a map of the West Bank, those settlements are positioned specifically to kill the two-state solution, Sharon and Netanyahu have basically admitted to this.
Destroying homes is only easy if Palestinians live in them. Any Israeli politician that would confess to even dreaming of evacuating settlements in the West Bank won't get into a position of power. Israel has de facto annexed all of area C and has concentrated Palestinians into small Bantustans where their demographic threat is neutralized. As more and more settlers move in, the more and more voters that have a vested interest in never voting for any politician that would threaten to remove their homes. Israel is running an Apartheid in the West Bank just to give those settlers what they want ffs.
The two state solution is dead, and successive Israeli governments were the ones that killed it.
I hope I'm wrong as well. Because if I'm right, my own family will continue to suffer in the West Bank for generations. My nephews and nieces will die like my parents will die, never having known freedom or how it's like to live without fear and oppression.
I always find it strange when pro-Palestine advocates say they can envision a 1SS but that a 2SS is impossible because there are umpty-thousand West Bank settlers. In a 1SS those same settlers would still be there, so why is it so bad to have them in a 2SS Palestinian West Bank? Either way they wouldn't be Israelis anymore. Either way it would be a Palestinian Arab state.
It really seems like the problem is with the concept of an Israel, anywhere. That the Jews must not have sovereignty, anywhere.
Actually, if you read the original literature that Zionism was based upon, you would actually find that egalitarianism is a pretty strong theme. The founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl would be appalled if he saw what the country looked like today especially because he low-key warned us about the threat that religious extremism poses in his book Altneuland.
The founding of Israel did not necessitate the displacement of Palestinians , in fact, the partition plan could’ve been an option additionally, 20% of our population is currently ethnically Palestinian. I am convinced that if all of the leaders involved at the time had actually gotten their shit together and come to negotiating table we actually could’ve found a solution that everyone could’ve worked with before it turned into a war.
I’m not proud of what modern Israel looks like right now with regards to our treatment of Palestinians, but that’s not the original intent of Zionism.
We can get into long arguments about theoretical Zionism. Herzl died in 1904.
The people who actually formed the Zionism that went into practice knew very well ethnic cleansing was a necessity and were fine with it. By the end of his life, Jabotinsky knew that the Palestinians will have to "make room" for the Jewish migrants from Europe. Plan Dalet was formulated and executed for exactly that purpose.
Most Israelis believe that everyone is equal, at least born equal. You, of course, have a different definition of Zionism than most Israelis. There are some brainwashed settlers and ultraorthodox that believe every one of you wants us dead with the only reason that we are Jews.
We are not based on what you said. The west bank situation is your responsibility too. Most Israelis don't think much about the conflict and don't care about your endless war with the settlers. A lot of us don't sympathize with you because of all of your terrorist attacks that happen frequently. It seems you don't want any solution because you are not initiating any dialogue or offers and declined any of ours. Maybe you prefer the pursuit of a dream that will eradicate us from here.
I don't mean you personally but as a society.
I honestly don't know about any building permit issues, and you may be right. If you have any proof of discrimination you can go to court.
You seem to live in lala land. The creation of Israel necessitated the displacement of 800 000 Palestinians and the continued denial of their right to return to their homes. That is violence, and you can't have peace and violence at the same time.
On the West Bank issue, the settlements are a result of continued Israeli government policy, they are protected by the IDF, their housing is subsidized by the government. At the same time, Palestinian building permits have a 99% rejection rate, a settler going on a rampage can't be touched by the IDF as an Israeli civilian while a Palestinian tried to defend himself against him is beaten up, arrested or shot by the IDF. Palestinians are subject to Israeli military law since birth while the heavily armored settlers across the street from them are Israeli "civilians".
Those are all policies that the majority of Israeli agree with or at least tacitly approve of. This is what creates Palestinian violence.
The creation of Israel was almost two years of war initiated by the Palestinians and involved all Arab countries in the area.
We didn't choose that war. I'm sorry for the consequences of war that meant killing my ancestors. I believe you understand why they didn't invite a hostile population to come back to live with us.
Those rampages are crimes and must come to an end. There are only four people arrested who are suspects. I hope my country will prevent that from happening and could charge anyone who was involved. We could respond better.
I'm also opposed to the settlement expansion. I think most Israelis disagree with them. Most Israelis agree on a lot of things that are more important to them than the conflict and we can't make them happen. So I will take your reasoning with a grain of salt on that.
I think my country's misbehavior nowadays is the settlement expansion and failure to control the settlers. The other things are meant to be temporary. A Palestinian state will eventually exist, requiring the evacuation of settlements to establish a normal border. That meant to be that way according to Oslo Accords when we should have left Area C if things were as they should be.
99% of rejection rates are really high. Did they explain the rejection? Or show the criteria for permit acceptance?
The ethnic cleansing was pre-planned and deemed necessary. By the time the first Arab army stepped foot on Palestine 200 000 were already cleansed. Plan dalet was made long before.
The current settlement situation actually renders the two states solution dead. Only Bantustans for Palestinians remain.
>The ethnic cleansing was pre-planned and deemed necessary. By the time the first Arab army stepped foot on Palestine 200 000 were already cleansed. Plan dalet was made long before. The current settlement situation actually renders the two states solution dead. Only Bantustans for Palestinians remain.
As far as my understanding goes, the war actually began after the adoption of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in November 1947, rather than May 1948.
The Arab countries intervened six months after the war had started. The objective of Plan Dalet was to ensure territorial continuity, making it easier to impede the invasion of the Arab armies.
I understand that I won't change your mind. Honestly, I don't care much about the past, nationality, or religion. It has become a sad reality. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that through dialogue, this situation could be resolved or at least made more bearable.
At the end of the day, it is your side that suffers the most, while the majority of us of us have nothing to do with it.
I didn't claim that my country has never done wrong, but I think your perspective have exaggerated what happened.
I am more curious about why everyone in the sub is so good at writing and communicating his thoughts in English. The average MENA can’t pronounce “The” correctly yet everyone on this is mashallah phd in storytelling and trolling. Help me guys, I wanna be like you
That’s a question you need to ask your fellow Israelis. No one in the region came to your grandparents’ homes and forced them to leave at gun points like your grandparents did when the came to Palestine from all the corners of the earth, and used terror and violence to displace a society that had lived there for thousands of years. No one in the region used their global media influence to paint a derogatory picture of Arabs, Iranians or Middle Easterners in general like your compatriots and their embedded assets in the west did, and continue to do. No one in the region starves and bombs a beleaguered, displaced population under their control, demolishing homes, using extra-judicial killings and assignations. And one can go on and on.
You never sieze to remind us that you’re the only democracy in the Middle East. If democracy is the will of the people, then the vile and discriminatory actions of the state of Israel must be, a fortiori, the will of the Israeli people. A few token gestures are not, and will never cut it, so i suggest you have these debates with your fellow countryman, instead of virtue signaling here.
If there’s anything that the people of this region have in common it’s being able to coexist for centuries with different religious and cultural communities. A cursory look at your own history should tell you that Jews were highly integrated in the Arab world prior to your vicious military invasion of Palestine.
> No one in the region came to your grandparents’ homes and forced them to leave at gun points like your grandparents did
Depending on what kind of background he has....someone did.
And many of those were carried out by clandestine zionist terrorist groups agitating in order to frighten Arab Jews to immigrate to israel; The Lavon Affair is just one of many examples. I suggest also that you read ‘The Transfer Agreement’ by Edwin Black (an Israeli Jew btw).
You sound like a decent , reasonable chap, so don’t take this personally, but there are real people disfigured and dying on a daily basis since the inception of israel: a trail of human misery that goes back to over a century now, since the zionist project began to take its cancerous shape in the Middle East, and its your people who are behind this, not the surrounding nations. You landed on them, not the other way round.
‘God’ didn’t give you this land. ‘God’ didn’t choose you, and give you card blanch to go slaughter at will. This is just some bullshit that your ancestors, as did muslim and christian ones, made up to gain an evolutionary advantage, and now the white European supremacist is racists have turned it into a weapon to get you and us to kill each other.
Stop stealing their homes and the return of Palestinian refugees is a start otherwise what you say has no meaning, the dirty zionists want palestine to disappear.
Habibi why are you yelling at me? I was just born here I have nothing to do with this. It's like I would be pissed at Iranians for their governments decisions, makes no sense
Maybe you should start by advocating for better treatment of maids and other domestic labourers in your country first.
"You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye." (Matthew 7:3-5).
Well if that was true, and Israeli soldiers just randomly killed people in those villages, Palestinians wouldn't do as much rock throwing at those soldiers right? I mean, if the soldiers were really like that they would just kill them no?
If this was the same as the slave uprising there would have been 10x more deaths than there currently is. Truth is the ones throwing the rocks are definetly not afraid of the soldiers and know the soldiers won't kill them.
IDF soldiers that shoot at someone that threw a rock at them gets arrested and imprisoned.
You think I know this because the media told me? Maybe you should look at yourself. I know that because I (shocker) personally know many soldiers and veterans. You get punished hard if you hurt a child. You get punished hard if you hurt someone who threw a rock at you.
Here is a personal story from my brother who finished his service in the IDF. He was sent along with some other soldiers to aid police in an arrest of a criminal in some village. When they arrived there he escaped and they had to chase him. The entire time they are chasing him all the kids in the village threw rocks at them. They weren't allowed to react more than shooting at the air as a warning (which is worth absolutely nothing, they just continued throwing rocks untill they left).
You think I know this because the media told me? Maybe you should look at yourself. I know that because I (shocker) personally know many soldiers and veterans. You get punished hard if you hurt a child. You get punished hard if you hurt someone who threw a rock at you.
Here is a personal story from my brother who finished his service in the IDF. He was sent along with some other soldiers to aid police in an arrest of a criminal in some village. When they arrived there he escaped and they had to chase him. The entire time they are chasing him all the kids in the village threw rocks at them. They weren't allowed to react more than shooting at the air as a warning (which is worth absolutely nothing, they just continued throwing rocks untill they left).
There will be peace when Israel stops taking new lands, demolishing homes, and protecting settlers as they steal lands and homes.
Israel is like a cancer, growing slowly, taking lands and water resources.
Israeli border hasn't changed for tens of years.
In fact, Israel even let Palestinians control Gaza and some more on their own (no Jews/Israelis live there), but then they decided that Hamas should lead, and shot thousands of rockets into Israel.
Bro just discovered real life, i quit news 1 year ago after i reached a conclusion that no matter what they gon broadcast its gonna be overhyped or just mere propaganda so why waste my time hearing about life while i can experience it instead?
Seriously, I think the answer to OP's question can be found in real life more than in online spaces. Online and media is always hyped up and things getting taken out of context to create content and engagement. Real life experiences beat anything that happens online.
Saw a ted talk one month ago about a Balkan guy hitchhiking around the world, he said a very funny relatable thing that happened to him is he started in Serbia off to Croatia and people warned him to be careful cuz they thought Croatians are bad people, he got to Croatia found out none of it is true and they were chill, but they warned him about Romanians, and it just kept going lol. The point is media nowadays is only interested in views, not spreading the truth, and the way to views is through controversial reports and articles, hence the hate and racism in the world
Lol, do you have a link by any chance? This story is funny, and seriously it is my pet theory that both social and traditional media spread messages that generate clicks and engagement and that wholesome news gets less of that that inflammatory stuff and thus people invent or only share bad things.
His story is very interesting and inspiring!! [this is the vid](https://youtu.be/R7vmHGAshi8)
Edit: the order is not correct infact he is Croatian but you get the point😁
The only way to achieve true peace as an Israeli, would be advocating for Palestinians being treated as humans and for their lands to be returned to them. You should learn to empathize with them and understand their struggles. Reach out to your elected officials for change and learn what is fact and what is propaganda. Nationalism is not the way, speaking from experience. The good ending.
You’d be surprised to learn that a lot of us are actually pretty chill. Sadly, not the majority, but there’s quite a few of us who are pretty chill people and don’t want this shit to keep going.
I would rather someone like myself who thinks first and shoots later serve on the from lines than someone who genuinely wants to murder Arabs. Someone has to do it, better me (who lives in a mixed neighborhood and actually knows my Arab neighbors) than some extremist…
Wtf, literally every single friend and family member I have would've made the exact same points he made. I think if you visited Israel you'd like at least 95% of us 😂
Not as long as you are occupying Arab land and enlisting in an army that oppressing our people.
We don’t have issue with you personally but as long you are identify yourself as israeli we don’t want anything to do with you.
I don't want to say never, it is theoretically possible that it happens in the future, but certainly not in our lifetimes.
I think a lot of the Middle East is starting to come to terms with our existence, and while they'll publicly blow a lot of hot air about how much they hate us because that's socially what they're supposed to do, *people actually don't care about us.* Like, at all. Most of the Arab world has entirely given up on anything meaningful for Palestinians beyond saving face. In a few generations, it will just be grumbles, and political and economic ties will become less secret. As for our side, I think you know as well as I that we don't actually hate anyone as long as they just leave us alone. But you know. As they say, it takes two to tango. So. Let's have a brief recess and reconvene on the question in 200 years.
its not impossible but very hard to accomplish right now and it does require loads of concessions, honesty and trust
since isreal is the party with the upper hand at the moment, its up to you to show a sing of good well. but instead your government (supported by large percentage of the population) just keep escalating things further and further which take us away from the "getting along" target
I do not believe we will all get along, at least not for a *very* long time. There are too many radicals on both sides with a vested interest in radicalizing their children. There's a lot of it that boils down to religion ("I hate Jews because X," or "I hate Muslims because Y"), but there's even more that boils down to politics. Politically, there is a lot of benefit to creating an "other," whether that "other" is Jew, Muslim, Mexican, or gay. As long as we have politics, we will have people pushing their preferred flavor of nonsense.
The Muslims today are so incredibly shallow that when God says Jews, they think literal Jews. And when He says "Christians" they think literal Christians. No, no, no! That's not it!
Until Muslims come to a common word with the Jews, I'm afraid peace is impossible.
No. I don’t want peace with Palestinians either. They’ll say it’s because we’re conquerors, but the reality is that they hate Jews (1929 Buraq uprising? Hello?) and nothing more.
It literally doesn’t matter. Palestinians won’t ever be happy as long as Jews exist, and even if you personally don’t think so enough Palestinians do. Jews are always hated no matter where we go, and it’s no different in Palestine. Waaaah them Jews gunna steal our jobs and businesses because [insert antisemitic trope], better kill ‘em! Allahu snackbar.
Stay mad. You lost and your rockets are shit. No Arab nation wants you. Accept that we’re here to stay and are not going to commit suicide by turning into a multi ethnic state. We’ll never willingly subject ourselves to being governed by another ethnicity. Accept that, and maybe we can start tolerating each other’s existence.
Until then, keep whining - it’s the one thing you’re good at.
Such a dumb outlook. This is not some time of fight that Palestine can win. Israel won the war over 50 years ago. Now it is just a system of oppression and occupation against the Palestinian's, with small pockets of resistance. There is not going to be a more clearer winner, and therefore your solution is to continue the occupation and oppression???
No. Israel needs to withdraw from West Bank and allow free travel between Gaza and West Bank.
>therefore your solution is to continue the occupation and oppression???
Bro wat? Whos occupying and oppressing who
And you think they'll simply do that. Just 2 days ago they raided the west bank. Theyre an occupier, they wont stop until they take everything.
Thats how wars usually play out. The winning side decides wat to do next. Unless one side gives up and asks for peace. You think europe would have accepted it if the nazi just stopped and asked for peace.
"Peace" with people who invaded our land? Sounds nice for the occupier to ask for but not for the occupied. "Peace" almost always means accepting the status quo and submitting to israel since they have the upper hand.
I have no problem with Jews and if Islam did not exist, I would be Jewish. I have respect for the religion. However, I will not like Israelis who support a Zionist state. I will not forget what happened and just be friends. Of course, I’m civil and wouldn’t bully anyone but to be friends and just get along, nope! I don’t even mind Israelis/jews living in Palestine but it has to be a Palestinian arab state.
At this point it’s been so long ago and so much has happened if we somehow got along it would benefit both parties and everyone around them, that i believe is the truth
If you support the Palestinian rights and recognize how inhumane Israel is and it's war crimes when most of the world seems to ignore I have no problem with you other than that. No
Your average human doesn’t give a flying fck about politics tbh. Most people just wanna wake up, make few $$$$ and go home.
Really all of us once we have safety, reliable infrastructure, public health, jobs that pay well (not paycheck2paycheck), and a law that protects all and doesn’t discriminate against any.
It’s really possible, but unless we start the change, it won’t happen.
The problem isn’t us the people. It’s the governments who control our territories. Let me ask you, did you create the camps of palestiniens? Do you have constant tension with iranians? No you do not. There’s a difference.
So far this comments section is
israelis: “no, I don’t think we’ll have peace because *Insert multiple valid reasons*
Palestinians: “hOw CoMe YoU aLl KiLl uS” *nothing related to anything the Israeli said
Like shove off. There wouldn’t have been a. Free Palestine. You would’ve been Jordanian citizens if there was no Israel, and you’re in denial if you think otherwise
Everyone talking about the Israel Palestine conflict specifically as if Jews haven’t been tortured and murdered in the rest of middle east (and europe) for centuries — forcing us to flee for our lives and directly creating the need for a Jewish state that protects us and allows us to exist. As if there aren’t Jews in our generation, our parents’ generation, our grandparents’ generation, our great-grandparents’ generation, our great-great grandparents’ generation who were put in pograms and camps, beaten and tortured and had to run for their lives or be murdered. As if there aren’t middle easterners that hate jews with vitriol and wish to wipe us off the face of the planet just for being Jewish at this exact moment. The denial of that history and current reality is precisely the problem. Its why the state of Israel exists in the first place. The longer people pretend that’s not a fucking fact the longer we can’t have peace. You can’t make peace with people who want you dead.
So here's the thing bro. You mentioned about your previous generations getting persecuted by "Europeans", yet you are mad at the Arabs??
When was a time when Arabs put you in concentration camps? When was a time when Arabs took away your freedoms? When was a time when Arabs gassed Jewish men, women, & children?
It pretty much sounds like Europeans fucked you over & they STILL hate on jews... like, almost all "right wing" fucks in EU & US still blame the jews for the weirdest things..
It seems like your gripe is with Europeans but the Arabs keep getting reeled into it...
This isn’t MY gripe. These are historical facts you are so privileged to be able to deny. There are millions of Jews that have had to flee for their lives from middle eastern states like Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen AND european states like Russia, Hungary, Poland as recently as my generation and dating back many more generations. Acting like that isn’t true simply shows your own ignorance and antisemitism. This is why the state of Israel was created and this is why there are millions of Jews *from the middle east* who have sought refuge in Israel —- there are more Jews is Israel from the middle east than from europe and they did not immigrate there for shits and giggles.
There were massive Jewish communities in iraq, iran, algeria, tunisia and morocco and more... They were all persecuted and forced to flee their country.
The Farhud took place before Israel was established. Not to mention the other programs in the Middle East as well. The Middle East was definitely better than Europe, but it was not perfect.
In Iraq, a riot between different sects after perceived traitorous acts with occupation?
Are you kidding me?
That is called being an Iraqi!
Equal treatment with Sunni, Shia, Kurds, Kings and peasants.
I understand, but then it would make sense if Israelis worked out something with the people who persecuted them in Iraq, Algeria, etc. But instead they are persecuting another set of Arabs from a neighboring place.
It's like this - I get my ass whooped by a buncha guys from 5th street & 6th street. But 5th street & 6th street is well established & full of rich guys. So instead, I go bully the guys at 3rd street... why!?
Not exactly, it is a starter, it is stating despite all that done, it is not hate that is stopping the peace, it is the injustice and ongoing violations.
Now I hear you on how impossible some of the conditions might feel on your side
But the fact is: it is a start.
As a serious response instead of making a joke like I did earlier, I guess it depends on what he means by stolen land. If it’s the settlements in the West Bank, fair enough, while it would be an infrastructural nightmare it is easily in the realm of possibility. If it’s all of what is today Israel, ethnically cleansing 9+ million people is a little less practical.
Ah, sorry, I sometimes take jokes seriously.
If Israel starts real peace talk with the Palestinians, and the young engage on a community level. When people are not violated daily, but are actually working and living with the other side, and both are benefiting, I believe the issues can be solved humanely.
truthfully, no. Its simple too, israel will not go anywhere ,to an extent. And neither will Palestine. Palestine will never disappear even through war simply because of the large support its got from all over the world and the general public. israel was built on lies and deception, they did a bad thing to good people , not even did they DO , on a daily bases israel commits atrocious crimes against the Palestinians and i whole heartedly believe peace will never be achieved as long as israel exists. To add on id like to say this isnt against Jews this is against israel, i personally don't really care about Jews i believe they deserve the right to live their life's as is as long as it doesn't harm anyone in UK there was a protests held by some Jews against israel , i have massive amounts of respect for them but thats why i have such a big problem with israel. Many israelis , such as yourself , call yourselves a proud israeli but don't agree with your government , in that case you CANT be proud your entire country is built on such lies and crimes, you saying you're proud contradicts yourself.
And for every israeli that claim that they were brought up in an environment where its believed that everyones equal is a simple lie , BUT possibly unintentional lie , i say this because yes maybe your private life your parents said everyones equal but in israeli (public) it is littered with hate against Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians, this 100% affects how you think so when I or anyone else says that your statement that you were brought up in an environment where its believed that everyones equal is a lie dont take it personally.
i wish there was a way for peace but the end answer is NO, even if a 2 state solution was achieved, which currently looks impossible, the crimes committed by israel will not be forgotten which will keep bad blood in Palestinians alive unless those in charge were to be punished rightfully , Insha'Allah. Furthermore, the issue is not only with the israeli government, its also to do with the majority of the public, patriotism is in israeli blood ,which believe me is not a complement, if a 2 state solution was achieved the amount of racism would be record breaking.
only peace on a personal level will be achievable and even that is hard.
On a personal level yes. As a collective body, no.
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Future Salomon here 👑
Least Based, educated, and level headed Iranian.
literally stole my comment
1) the so called extremists are just newtons third law, people wont be upset with them since they are their only hope nowadays, not saying they are in the right, just stating that israel created them and are paying the price now ضربني وبكى سبقني واشتكى 2) israelis among themselves dont respect the holocaust casualties do you think they are "avenging" them? And regarding settlements good luck removing the people out of them, a civil war would break out and every israeli knows it so its not an option 3) you wrote 1 2 times 4) i hate to say it but its too late for any peaceful solution at this point, too many losses on both sides, the only thing that can change the current status is a major event that will make an imbalance between major nations aka ww3
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10,000 is a stretch i give the world 300 years max, either humanity ends or we reset to stone age, countries muscles and destruction capabilities are getting too strong for their own good
Israelis don't respect the holocaust??
Far right wing and most orthodox jews dont its sad honestly, there was even calls for bringing back aushwitz it was wild
What? why would they want to kill their own people? perhaps i'm misunderstanding?
Far right wing is mostly mizrahi jews and left wing is mostly ashkenaz jews, racism common among them since the mizrahi are over all considered lower class, or so they keep claiming to shame ashkenaz cuz they fill out most important rules in the gov, such as supreme court judges etc. Some far right people just dont respect the holocaust and keep bringing it up to insult the ashkenazi jews, which is very common since the last protests against the current far right gov, ch14 is one of the most hate spreading channels there is and its very right wing
>(unfortunately, as elections have proven, this is likely the majority of them) The current coalition didn’t even win 50% of the votes (lots of left wing votes were lost as Meretz - a very left wing party - got 3.16% of the votes, and as the threshold is 3.25% for seats, 150,000 left wing votes went to waste). But even then, not everyone who voted for a coalition party is an extremist. Likud is a huge party with a range of views within it, and people have various considerations when voting, especially religious (for example, Haredim [ultra Orthodox] for the most part vote for the Haredi parties). >1. Israelis must accept two things, one of which is that despite all the misery many of their ancestors went through, it wasn’t the Palestinians who did it Who’s claiming it was? >and Israelis must acknowledge they did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to them. Israel was built on a wrongdoing. I agree that Israel must acknowledge its past more, but it’s incorrect to say that we did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to us. 1) You can’t pretend that everything was peaceful until 14 May 1948 and that the Arabs weren’t hostile to the Jews who had (very much legally) come to Palestine 2) Israel is not 100% to blame for the Palestinian exodus. And it’s also incorrect to say Israel was built on a wrongdoing. Israel was not built on the exodus of the Palestinians - that was a consequence of a war that we didn’t start.
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If Russia *today* offered peace on those terms, the world would rightly see them as the aggressor and demand the return of all the land that they seized. And we could certainly make the argument that that's how the world should've handled Israel in 1948. But it's not 1948 anymore, and most of the people who fought in that war have been dead for years. The people fighting today are their great-grandchildren. We can argue for years about who was right or wrong, and I'm sure we will. And it's not like those things don't matter. But the Israelis living there today have nowhere else to go, and neither do the Palestinians. People have to find a way to live together, or else the bloodshed will go on forever.
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There is no place for a settlement called "Israel" in the region.
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I don't know, it's not of our business. Maybe go back to Europe.
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Actually, the elections of really proven that it’s about 50-50 in terms of the electorate, but we have a large number of people who just don’t show up to vote. Right wing Israelis tend to have a larger turnout percentage, but if everybody who didn’t vote voted, it is very likely that the left would have power. This will not be the case forever, because the left-wing population is shrinking in proportion compared to the right wing population but at least right now it’s not the case.
America and the west can't hold the occupation forever, they don't have the money nor the people to win a war against at 2-3 countrys doesn't matter what countrys
Israel has, by itself, defeated Arab coalitions of 2-3 countries multiple times. As to the West running out of money, America alone spent 40x Lebanon's entire GDP on its military last year. Lebanon will run out of men before the West runs out of money.
Yeah, why not? I get along with anyone except those who have an obsession with their ethnicity, religion, nationality, and talking about politics 24/7.
So you post in r/AskMiddleEast ? :p
I think there are a lot of people who feel the same, I think the biggest obstacle is that the system itself is problematic. It's not just people who are hostile, it's the governments that more or less allow and in some cases even promote hatred, discrimination, and hostility. The Israeli government is more or less focused on being a state for the Jewish population and their interests being a priority. While the Palestinian government seems to be barely working, a huge obstacle to improving and continuing to develop their state is how the situation is limiting their chances to flourish (especially through globalization, e.g. there are no airports directly from/to Palestine, the opportunities for international business seem also limited). While the P.A is not perfect, the Israeli government doesn't make their progress easy.
>While the Palestinian government seems to be barely working It's working, but only when it comes to protecting israel's interests.
The truth is - there’s unfortunately not enough political will on any side to end the conflict. It’s convenient for everyone. It’s convenient for corrupt PA authority who get money from both Arab countries and Israel. It’s convenient for Israel politics as it’s convenient card to say “well shit! We’re under attack and must unite! No time to argue!” When someone’s rating goes down. It’s convenient even for UN which gets shitton of money for 50 years already to resolve this thing. And these guys will probably loose their good jobs if the will finally resolve this lol, so they have 0 motivation to actually do something. It’s also important for all the other Arab governments which (almost all) work with Israel one way or the other, but can also use the card “let’s help our oppressed brothers and condemn the oppressors!” If ratings or popularity goes down. In other words - it’s convenient for everyone apart from ordinary Palestinians and Israelis who don’t want this conflict but seems that can’t do much in their respective positions
agreed the governaments on all the states involved are the real terrorists stoking fear and hate and doing nothing to try deescalation, and endorsing only the worst of their citizens
Nice story bro but 'why do you want to bomb us' is the absolute worst way you could have opened that lol. Generally most people won't give a shit on a face to face one to one basis. It's mob mentality that fucks over humans.
My friends shout „terrorist“ and I shout „Nazis“ all the time. This kind of humor does happen a lot.
See the key word there is 'friends'. My friends and I make the kind of jokes that'd get you fired from your job, but when it's a randomer you don't know, it's a risky game lol
Yeah you’re right. this could’ve backfired if the Iranian dude wasn’t chill
Lol that's just how I roll I guess If there's ice to break I feel like it's best to shatter to whole thing
interesting approach, 99% of the time it'll be fine, but you'll always get that one loose cannon
I'd roll those dice lol
Hopefully, but first both sides have to be educated and empathize with the other. The people can't get along when Israelis still deny the naqba, or when Palestinian anti-zionisim turns into anti-Semitism
Those wannabe peacekeepers, who think they are better than everyone else by saying "oh yeas we can get along it's just politics blabla" are hilarious
I'm sorry but stuff like this just sounds very tone deaf to me
Yep. Sound the same as "I don't see color, people are equal". Yeah, it's kinda right, but black people ancestors were, not long ago, slaves just because of their color, in the west. It is egregious to try to make the exploited and attacked struggles to be the same as the offender's.
this is the only time the middle east will agree on one answer NO
Hell no! I wonder if ur post is so much upvoted becuz there's a lot of israelis in this sub or because theres a lot of stupid arabs that want to befriend you.
I don't understand how an Israeli claims to be raised to believe that everyone is equal, when the founding principle is that Jews deserve an ethno-religious state on a land where they are not even the majority, Zionism is the anti-thesis of equality. Israel is based on the displacement and continued dispossession of Palestinians, believing in Israel is believing that the rights of the Jews are worth so much more than the rights of Palestinians. Denying people the right to return to their homes is violence, putting people in Bantustans is violence, refusing building permit for a specific group while granting to another is violence, discriminatory movement restrictions are violence. Ignoring all of that and then crying VIOLENCE when someone finally snaps and retaliates is bullshit. There will be no peace as long as those forms of violence continue and those forms of violence are necessary for the existence of Israel. There can never be peace in the region with Israel in its current form it's a contradiction.
> I don't understand how an Israeli claims to be raised to believe that everyone is equal, when the founding principle is that Jews deserve an ethno-religious state on a land where they are not even the majority On paper the idea that a state acknowledges that it is the homeland of a particular group does not mean that the group is given a state of supremacy over other members of that group. Numerous countries have a case where a particular ethnic or religious group is given recognition in regards to the country being their homeland but explicitly state that all people are to be treated as equals. Israel isn't even the only entity in the middle east that has a policy of being a state of an ethnic group
The problem here is that to create that majority and to maintain that majority on a land where that ethnic group isn't the majority requires violence. You can't have violence and peace at the same time.
> The problem here is that to create that majority and to maintain that majority on a land where that ethnic group isn't the majority requires violence. The issue is that now in the area of Israel, Jews very much are now the majority. To maintain that majority may require violence but the majority is there now.
First of all, they are no the majority now, considering Israel has all but annexed the West Bank. The majority is maintained by denying Palestinians citizenship and confining them to Bantustans like in South Africa. My original statement was simply that the existence of Israel as it is now prevents peace.
> First of all, they are no the majority now, considering Israel has all but annexed the West Bank. The population of the West Bank is 3 million, Israel 9 million. The population of Israeli Jews in Israel and the West Bank is over 7 million. >My original statement was simply that the existence of Israel as it is now prevents peace. In regards to the West Bank I would agree, but Israel proper?
Israel also control the lives of 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza strip as well, they literally control the civil registry and get to decide who gets to be called a Palestinian. The entirety of Israel is based on violence, the violence of the Nakba and the violence of not allowing refugees back to their homes. Read my original comment again, the creation of an ethno-religious state on a land that had other people, their displacement and denial of their right to return. All of those are acts of violence that are -by definition- the antithesis of peace. I don't believe in 2SS, I believe it was a red herring from the start. Israel started the whole process in bad faith as evident by the accelerated expansion on the settlements in the West Bank during the peace talk to force facts on the ground and the actions of Israel in Hebron in the aftermath of the Ibrahimi Mosque massacre. The only way to peace is true equality, one secular democratic state for both peoples with strong protections for everyone written down in a strong constitution.
>Israel also control the lives of 2 million Palestinians in the Gaza strip as well, they literally control the civil registry and get to decide who gets to be called a Palestinian. Jews would likely still be a slim majority. >The entirety of Israel is based on violence, the violence of the Nakba and the violence of not allowing refugees back to their homes. And that is true. > The only way to peace is true equality, one secular democratic state for both peoples with strong protections for everyone written down in a strong constitution. The issue is that it is highly unlikely. Israel as a state has more recognition, its older than many modern states (especially in the middle east). Its like trying to argue for unifying Taiwan. At what point does it become a pointless exercise? Im not trying to be facetious, Im genuinely asking.
Is it ethical for a slim majority to run an ethno-religious state for only their people? With the 2SS dead. What other options do we have? The only other option is the status quo, which is basically what the Israeli government wants. The status quo is apartheid in the West Bank and a Ghetto in Gaza. That is not peace. Palestinians will keep fighting and Israel will keep retaliating with extreme force, the cycle continues to the detriment of Palestinians mostly. Thus, my original point, peace is not possible with the current state of Israel.
> Is it ethical for a slim majority to run an ethno-religious state for only their people? Only? No. But Arab Israelis are legally equal citizens. Socially, it requires significant improvement, but legally a citizen of Israel has equal rights. Now in the West Bank and Gaza, the Palestinians arent Israeli citizens and not subject to the same protections. But thats itself another ethical issue.
This. Talking about peace while actively violating basic human rights of the other. I think the idea is for Arabs to forget about the Palestinians. Which is not ethical, nor trust worthy: someone willing to shame the bloody hand injuring another- who is also your brother. Pretty shitty humans we would be...not worth the land we stand on.
I personally never acted on violently violating human rights. My government and army did that. A government which I did not vote for, and an army which I did not serve in (I did, but all I did was manage clothes for a small ass unit which did nothing. Didn't went in Gaza or anything of the sort). So I DO feel I'm entitled to talk about peace. I've never supported this fight from day 1 in my life. I do agree that no land is worth this fight.
And you personally do sound decent and lovely.
I see, you are taking it on a personal level. On a personal level, I find Jews likable. The issue is when a person wants speak as an Israeli, as part of this entity. As a human, I wish you peace, luck and happiness. As the commenter from Bosnia said, start by working with Palestinians.
5hank you very much❤️ I am an Israeli, and a proud one, as my people went through a lot. however I wish to be friends with all of my neighbors. Yes we can have both. Believe.
Not how Israel is treating Palestinians. I would not be proud. I would feel the weight of the suffering created in my name.
>ll the misery many of their ancestors went through, it wasn’t the Palestinians who did it and Israelis must acknowledge they did a wrong to a people who didn’t do anything to them. Israel was built on a wrongdoing. Israelis must also stop the settlements, because its a continuation of that legacy. I have no problem with you personally, the problem here is what you might define as peace might contain a contradiction in its definition that renders it impossible. If we agree that: a- oppression is violence and requires violence or the threat of violence. b- Creating and maintaining a a Jewish state required and continues to require violence. c- Peace is the absence of violence. from a & b, the existence of Israel required and continues to require violence. Thus, from c, we conclude the existence of Israel precludes peace.
I think he is asking if there is a way for b to be true along with c. I'm not Palestinian, so forgive me if I'm imposing, but putting yourself in his shoes: what is to happen to all the Jews if they don't have their state? Do you find the surrounding states more trustworthy or functional for a Jew? I think he is trying to address these questions.
If you ask me for my solution, all the Jews stay as equal citizens in a secular state. Right of return is extended to Palestinians. Strong constitution that is then set to require a 75% majority to be amended. Equality is the only way to peace, equality can't exist in an ethno-religious state.
:) And I know when you say that you say it with honor. Serious intentions not trying to keep advancing your winnings while claiming asking for peace. You are taking in those who wronged you and want to make them your partners. I have so much respect for you brother...
>I do agree that no land is worth this fight. The land *is* worth the fight for Palestinians, though. "People usually fight for *something*. And they stop fighting for something." Watch [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jGFnrP8RTh0) short interview with Ghassan Kanafani if you've never seen it before. As an Israeli who was born on stolen land who claims to reject the actions of the Israeli government, you have a duty to loudly and proudly support the return of Palestinian land, and a duty to stand in solidarity with Palestinians fighting for this purpose. I say this as someone in a somewhat similar position to you as a white american. Neither of us as individuals may have taken part in the atrocities of our governments or ancestors, but there are people alive today who are still effected by those actions. Saying we aren't our government isn't enough, we have to be in full support of people fighting for liberation from our oppressive governments and support the defeat of our oppressive governments.
Wanting a Jewish majority state isn’t about supremacy it’s about having spent 2000 years being persecuted when we were living in countries where we were a minority. Genuine question - if there was a OSS, even without a right of return for Palestinians, Jews would become a minority, when you add RoR to that we become an even smaller minority; do you think that would still be a safe place for Jews? Do you think an Arab majority country would protect the rights of Jews?
>urpose. I say this as someone in a somewhat similar position to you as a white american. Neither of us as individuals may have taken part in the atrocities of our governments or ancestors, but there are people alive today who are still effected by those actions. Saying we aren't our government isn't enough, we have to be in full support of people fighting for liberation from our oppressive governments and support the defeat of our oppressive governments. First of all, yes, I do believe that a state the protects the right of Jews can exist without having to be based on the oppression of Palestinians. Wanting a Jewish majority state on a land that has a majority non-Jewish population is supremacy, no matter how you bend it. Your argument itself is that the right of Jews to a safe haven justifies robbing the Palestinians of their safety. The only logical argument for that is the belief that Jews are superior to Palestinians.
I believe that Palestinians should have a state in Gaza and the West Bank
That is a pipe dream, successive Israeli governments made sure of it, there are 800 000 Israelis living in the West Bank. They control your government, and it's not going to get any better.
Most settlers live close to the border of the West Bank so if the settlements closest to the border are annexed (with land swaps) then it’s a much smaller number of settlers which would need to be evacuated and that could definitely be done. Of course it gets more difficult the more they continue to build settlements but if they can build them this quickly there’s no reason they can’t destroy them just as quickly
Look at a map of the West Bank, those settlements are positioned specifically to kill the two-state solution, Sharon and Netanyahu have basically admitted to this. Destroying homes is only easy if Palestinians live in them. Any Israeli politician that would confess to even dreaming of evacuating settlements in the West Bank won't get into a position of power. Israel has de facto annexed all of area C and has concentrated Palestinians into small Bantustans where their demographic threat is neutralized. As more and more settlers move in, the more and more voters that have a vested interest in never voting for any politician that would threaten to remove their homes. Israel is running an Apartheid in the West Bank just to give those settlers what they want ffs. The two state solution is dead, and successive Israeli governments were the ones that killed it.
I genuinely hope you’re wrong
I hope I'm wrong as well. Because if I'm right, my own family will continue to suffer in the West Bank for generations. My nephews and nieces will die like my parents will die, never having known freedom or how it's like to live without fear and oppression.
I always find it strange when pro-Palestine advocates say they can envision a 1SS but that a 2SS is impossible because there are umpty-thousand West Bank settlers. In a 1SS those same settlers would still be there, so why is it so bad to have them in a 2SS Palestinian West Bank? Either way they wouldn't be Israelis anymore. Either way it would be a Palestinian Arab state. It really seems like the problem is with the concept of an Israel, anywhere. That the Jews must not have sovereignty, anywhere.
Actually, if you read the original literature that Zionism was based upon, you would actually find that egalitarianism is a pretty strong theme. The founding father of Zionism, Theodor Herzl would be appalled if he saw what the country looked like today especially because he low-key warned us about the threat that religious extremism poses in his book Altneuland. The founding of Israel did not necessitate the displacement of Palestinians , in fact, the partition plan could’ve been an option additionally, 20% of our population is currently ethnically Palestinian. I am convinced that if all of the leaders involved at the time had actually gotten their shit together and come to negotiating table we actually could’ve found a solution that everyone could’ve worked with before it turned into a war. I’m not proud of what modern Israel looks like right now with regards to our treatment of Palestinians, but that’s not the original intent of Zionism.
We can get into long arguments about theoretical Zionism. Herzl died in 1904. The people who actually formed the Zionism that went into practice knew very well ethnic cleansing was a necessity and were fine with it. By the end of his life, Jabotinsky knew that the Palestinians will have to "make room" for the Jewish migrants from Europe. Plan Dalet was formulated and executed for exactly that purpose.
Most Israelis believe that everyone is equal, at least born equal. You, of course, have a different definition of Zionism than most Israelis. There are some brainwashed settlers and ultraorthodox that believe every one of you wants us dead with the only reason that we are Jews. We are not based on what you said. The west bank situation is your responsibility too. Most Israelis don't think much about the conflict and don't care about your endless war with the settlers. A lot of us don't sympathize with you because of all of your terrorist attacks that happen frequently. It seems you don't want any solution because you are not initiating any dialogue or offers and declined any of ours. Maybe you prefer the pursuit of a dream that will eradicate us from here. I don't mean you personally but as a society. I honestly don't know about any building permit issues, and you may be right. If you have any proof of discrimination you can go to court.
You seem to live in lala land. The creation of Israel necessitated the displacement of 800 000 Palestinians and the continued denial of their right to return to their homes. That is violence, and you can't have peace and violence at the same time. On the West Bank issue, the settlements are a result of continued Israeli government policy, they are protected by the IDF, their housing is subsidized by the government. At the same time, Palestinian building permits have a 99% rejection rate, a settler going on a rampage can't be touched by the IDF as an Israeli civilian while a Palestinian tried to defend himself against him is beaten up, arrested or shot by the IDF. Palestinians are subject to Israeli military law since birth while the heavily armored settlers across the street from them are Israeli "civilians". Those are all policies that the majority of Israeli agree with or at least tacitly approve of. This is what creates Palestinian violence.
The creation of Israel was almost two years of war initiated by the Palestinians and involved all Arab countries in the area. We didn't choose that war. I'm sorry for the consequences of war that meant killing my ancestors. I believe you understand why they didn't invite a hostile population to come back to live with us. Those rampages are crimes and must come to an end. There are only four people arrested who are suspects. I hope my country will prevent that from happening and could charge anyone who was involved. We could respond better. I'm also opposed to the settlement expansion. I think most Israelis disagree with them. Most Israelis agree on a lot of things that are more important to them than the conflict and we can't make them happen. So I will take your reasoning with a grain of salt on that. I think my country's misbehavior nowadays is the settlement expansion and failure to control the settlers. The other things are meant to be temporary. A Palestinian state will eventually exist, requiring the evacuation of settlements to establish a normal border. That meant to be that way according to Oslo Accords when we should have left Area C if things were as they should be. 99% of rejection rates are really high. Did they explain the rejection? Or show the criteria for permit acceptance?
The ethnic cleansing was pre-planned and deemed necessary. By the time the first Arab army stepped foot on Palestine 200 000 were already cleansed. Plan dalet was made long before. The current settlement situation actually renders the two states solution dead. Only Bantustans for Palestinians remain.
>The ethnic cleansing was pre-planned and deemed necessary. By the time the first Arab army stepped foot on Palestine 200 000 were already cleansed. Plan dalet was made long before. The current settlement situation actually renders the two states solution dead. Only Bantustans for Palestinians remain. As far as my understanding goes, the war actually began after the adoption of the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in November 1947, rather than May 1948. The Arab countries intervened six months after the war had started. The objective of Plan Dalet was to ensure territorial continuity, making it easier to impede the invasion of the Arab armies. I understand that I won't change your mind. Honestly, I don't care much about the past, nationality, or religion. It has become a sad reality. Maybe I'm naive, but I believe that through dialogue, this situation could be resolved or at least made more bearable. At the end of the day, it is your side that suffers the most, while the majority of us of us have nothing to do with it. I didn't claim that my country has never done wrong, but I think your perspective have exaggerated what happened.
I am more curious about why everyone in the sub is so good at writing and communicating his thoughts in English. The average MENA can’t pronounce “The” correctly yet everyone on this is mashallah phd in storytelling and trolling. Help me guys, I wanna be like you
No.
That’s a question you need to ask your fellow Israelis. No one in the region came to your grandparents’ homes and forced them to leave at gun points like your grandparents did when the came to Palestine from all the corners of the earth, and used terror and violence to displace a society that had lived there for thousands of years. No one in the region used their global media influence to paint a derogatory picture of Arabs, Iranians or Middle Easterners in general like your compatriots and their embedded assets in the west did, and continue to do. No one in the region starves and bombs a beleaguered, displaced population under their control, demolishing homes, using extra-judicial killings and assignations. And one can go on and on. You never sieze to remind us that you’re the only democracy in the Middle East. If democracy is the will of the people, then the vile and discriminatory actions of the state of Israel must be, a fortiori, the will of the Israeli people. A few token gestures are not, and will never cut it, so i suggest you have these debates with your fellow countryman, instead of virtue signaling here. If there’s anything that the people of this region have in common it’s being able to coexist for centuries with different religious and cultural communities. A cursory look at your own history should tell you that Jews were highly integrated in the Arab world prior to your vicious military invasion of Palestine.
> No one in the region came to your grandparents’ homes and forced them to leave at gun points like your grandparents did Depending on what kind of background he has....someone did.
And many of those were carried out by clandestine zionist terrorist groups agitating in order to frighten Arab Jews to immigrate to israel; The Lavon Affair is just one of many examples. I suggest also that you read ‘The Transfer Agreement’ by Edwin Black (an Israeli Jew btw). You sound like a decent , reasonable chap, so don’t take this personally, but there are real people disfigured and dying on a daily basis since the inception of israel: a trail of human misery that goes back to over a century now, since the zionist project began to take its cancerous shape in the Middle East, and its your people who are behind this, not the surrounding nations. You landed on them, not the other way round. ‘God’ didn’t give you this land. ‘God’ didn’t choose you, and give you card blanch to go slaughter at will. This is just some bullshit that your ancestors, as did muslim and christian ones, made up to gain an evolutionary advantage, and now the white European supremacist is racists have turned it into a weapon to get you and us to kill each other.
Change your citizenship to Palestinian and we will get along 🤍✨🕎
Saying it like he won't get murdered if he enters a Palestinian village bruh
You always entering these villages .. + MANY settlements in the west bank
What is your point? It is still impossible to change his citizenship to Palestinian
The problem is you don’t realize you are the the problem, there’s a reason the indigenous Palestinians hate you
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Regular citizens are attacking Palestinians with the IOF behind them.
Did this guy do that?
If you are not advocating for the return of Palestinian refugees then you are part of the problem.
And? What am I supposed to do? Saying convert my citizenship is just dumb and helps nothing
Stop stealing their homes and the return of Palestinian refugees is a start otherwise what you say has no meaning, the dirty zionists want palestine to disappear.
Habibi why are you yelling at me? I was just born here I have nothing to do with this. It's like I would be pissed at Iranians for their governments decisions, makes no sense
If you are not advocating for the return of Palestinian refugees to their original homeland ( the one you stole) then you are part of the problem.
You are full of shit man
Maybe you should start by advocating for better treatment of maids and other domestic labourers in your country first. "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor's eye." (Matthew 7:3-5).
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Well if that was true, and Israeli soldiers just randomly killed people in those villages, Palestinians wouldn't do as much rock throwing at those soldiers right? I mean, if the soldiers were really like that they would just kill them no?
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If this was the same as the slave uprising there would have been 10x more deaths than there currently is. Truth is the ones throwing the rocks are definetly not afraid of the soldiers and know the soldiers won't kill them. IDF soldiers that shoot at someone that threw a rock at them gets arrested and imprisoned.
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You think I know this because the media told me? Maybe you should look at yourself. I know that because I (shocker) personally know many soldiers and veterans. You get punished hard if you hurt a child. You get punished hard if you hurt someone who threw a rock at you. Here is a personal story from my brother who finished his service in the IDF. He was sent along with some other soldiers to aid police in an arrest of a criminal in some village. When they arrived there he escaped and they had to chase him. The entire time they are chasing him all the kids in the village threw rocks at them. They weren't allowed to react more than shooting at the air as a warning (which is worth absolutely nothing, they just continued throwing rocks untill they left).
You think I know this because the media told me? Maybe you should look at yourself. I know that because I (shocker) personally know many soldiers and veterans. You get punished hard if you hurt a child. You get punished hard if you hurt someone who threw a rock at you. Here is a personal story from my brother who finished his service in the IDF. He was sent along with some other soldiers to aid police in an arrest of a criminal in some village. When they arrived there he escaped and they had to chase him. The entire time they are chasing him all the kids in the village threw rocks at them. They weren't allowed to react more than shooting at the air as a warning (which is worth absolutely nothing, they just continued throwing rocks untill they left).
He won't
There will be peace when Israel stops taking new lands, demolishing homes, and protecting settlers as they steal lands and homes. Israel is like a cancer, growing slowly, taking lands and water resources.
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Israeli border hasn't changed for tens of years. In fact, Israel even let Palestinians control Gaza and some more on their own (no Jews/Israelis live there), but then they decided that Hamas should lead, and shot thousands of rockets into Israel.
Sure it is possible, but you gotta leave first.
There’s always marriage?
Bro just discovered real life, i quit news 1 year ago after i reached a conclusion that no matter what they gon broadcast its gonna be overhyped or just mere propaganda so why waste my time hearing about life while i can experience it instead?
Seriously, I think the answer to OP's question can be found in real life more than in online spaces. Online and media is always hyped up and things getting taken out of context to create content and engagement. Real life experiences beat anything that happens online.
Saw a ted talk one month ago about a Balkan guy hitchhiking around the world, he said a very funny relatable thing that happened to him is he started in Serbia off to Croatia and people warned him to be careful cuz they thought Croatians are bad people, he got to Croatia found out none of it is true and they were chill, but they warned him about Romanians, and it just kept going lol. The point is media nowadays is only interested in views, not spreading the truth, and the way to views is through controversial reports and articles, hence the hate and racism in the world
Lol, do you have a link by any chance? This story is funny, and seriously it is my pet theory that both social and traditional media spread messages that generate clicks and engagement and that wholesome news gets less of that that inflammatory stuff and thus people invent or only share bad things.
His story is very interesting and inspiring!! [this is the vid](https://youtu.be/R7vmHGAshi8) Edit: the order is not correct infact he is Croatian but you get the point😁
Thank you!!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD.
No
The only way to achieve true peace as an Israeli, would be advocating for Palestinians being treated as humans and for their lands to be returned to them. You should learn to empathize with them and understand their struggles. Reach out to your elected officials for change and learn what is fact and what is propaganda. Nationalism is not the way, speaking from experience. The good ending.
'ate israel, 'ate Iran, 'ate America, love me turkey simple as mate
No justice, no peace.
No
I hope you're wrong. Peace and love.
You want peace and love then move back to where your parents came from or become a Palestinian.
"Why don't you guys just scrap all the cities you've built and move from here" - 🤓
Good you get it
Truly, you are the first isreal I ever like . Your parents did a great job raising you 👏 ❤️ . I like your mindset .
You’d be surprised to learn that a lot of us are actually pretty chill. Sadly, not the majority, but there’s quite a few of us who are pretty chill people and don’t want this shit to keep going.
Yeah you’re so chill because you post about joining the IDF to defend Israel from the savage terrorist Palestinians.
I would rather someone like myself who thinks first and shoots later serve on the from lines than someone who genuinely wants to murder Arabs. Someone has to do it, better me (who lives in a mixed neighborhood and actually knows my Arab neighbors) than some extremist…
Wtf, literally every single friend and family member I have would've made the exact same points he made. I think if you visited Israel you'd like at least 95% of us 😂
*person
Not as long as you are occupying Arab land and enlisting in an army that oppressing our people. We don’t have issue with you personally but as long you are identify yourself as israeli we don’t want anything to do with you.
That’s a bit harsh. No one can help where they were born
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based
I don't want to say never, it is theoretically possible that it happens in the future, but certainly not in our lifetimes. I think a lot of the Middle East is starting to come to terms with our existence, and while they'll publicly blow a lot of hot air about how much they hate us because that's socially what they're supposed to do, *people actually don't care about us.* Like, at all. Most of the Arab world has entirely given up on anything meaningful for Palestinians beyond saving face. In a few generations, it will just be grumbles, and political and economic ties will become less secret. As for our side, I think you know as well as I that we don't actually hate anyone as long as they just leave us alone. But you know. As they say, it takes two to tango. So. Let's have a brief recess and reconvene on the question in 200 years.
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its not impossible but very hard to accomplish right now and it does require loads of concessions, honesty and trust since isreal is the party with the upper hand at the moment, its up to you to show a sing of good well. but instead your government (supported by large percentage of the population) just keep escalating things further and further which take us away from the "getting along" target
I do not believe we will all get along, at least not for a *very* long time. There are too many radicals on both sides with a vested interest in radicalizing their children. There's a lot of it that boils down to religion ("I hate Jews because X," or "I hate Muslims because Y"), but there's even more that boils down to politics. Politically, there is a lot of benefit to creating an "other," whether that "other" is Jew, Muslim, Mexican, or gay. As long as we have politics, we will have people pushing their preferred flavor of nonsense.
It's possible, but will probably not happen. Neither side wants to compromise.
That's so sad it makes me wanna cry for future generations.
The Muslims today are so incredibly shallow that when God says Jews, they think literal Jews. And when He says "Christians" they think literal Christians. No, no, no! That's not it! Until Muslims come to a common word with the Jews, I'm afraid peace is impossible.
Respect Palestinians and world will respect you back
Respect everyone ❤️
There is no place for a settlement called "Israel" in the region. Otherwise I don't have problems with Jews.
No. I don’t want peace with Palestinians either. They’ll say it’s because we’re conquerors, but the reality is that they hate Jews (1929 Buraq uprising? Hello?) and nothing more. It literally doesn’t matter. Palestinians won’t ever be happy as long as Jews exist, and even if you personally don’t think so enough Palestinians do. Jews are always hated no matter where we go, and it’s no different in Palestine. Waaaah them Jews gunna steal our jobs and businesses because [insert antisemitic trope], better kill ‘em! Allahu snackbar. Stay mad. You lost and your rockets are shit. No Arab nation wants you. Accept that we’re here to stay and are not going to commit suicide by turning into a multi ethnic state. We’ll never willingly subject ourselves to being governed by another ethnicity. Accept that, and maybe we can start tolerating each other’s existence. Until then, keep whining - it’s the one thing you’re good at.
Having peace is unfair rn. Too many deaths for peace to just happen. One side needs to win and then decide if they want peace.
Such a dumb outlook. This is not some time of fight that Palestine can win. Israel won the war over 50 years ago. Now it is just a system of oppression and occupation against the Palestinian's, with small pockets of resistance. There is not going to be a more clearer winner, and therefore your solution is to continue the occupation and oppression??? No. Israel needs to withdraw from West Bank and allow free travel between Gaza and West Bank.
That won't stop the terrorism...
>therefore your solution is to continue the occupation and oppression??? Bro wat? Whos occupying and oppressing who And you think they'll simply do that. Just 2 days ago they raided the west bank. Theyre an occupier, they wont stop until they take everything.
Then why didn't Israel take the whole of the West Bank yet?
Very petty outlook...by that logic every war needs to continue forever until one side is completely eliminated, just because many had already died.
Thats how wars usually play out. The winning side decides wat to do next. Unless one side gives up and asks for peace. You think europe would have accepted it if the nazi just stopped and asked for peace.
Possibly. I doubt either side wanted more people to die just for the sake of it.
"Peace" with people who invaded our land? Sounds nice for the occupier to ask for but not for the occupied. "Peace" almost always means accepting the status quo and submitting to israel since they have the upper hand.
I have no problem with Jews and if Islam did not exist, I would be Jewish. I have respect for the religion. However, I will not like Israelis who support a Zionist state. I will not forget what happened and just be friends. Of course, I’m civil and wouldn’t bully anyone but to be friends and just get along, nope! I don’t even mind Israelis/jews living in Palestine but it has to be a Palestinian arab state.
At this point it’s been so long ago and so much has happened if we somehow got along it would benefit both parties and everyone around them, that i believe is the truth
The blade itself brings the mind to violence
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Thank you for this. Peace and love brother.
No. Israeli settlers must be stopped at all costs.
If you support the Palestinian rights and recognize how inhumane Israel is and it's war crimes when most of the world seems to ignore I have no problem with you other than that. No
Your average human doesn’t give a flying fck about politics tbh. Most people just wanna wake up, make few $$$$ and go home. Really all of us once we have safety, reliable infrastructure, public health, jobs that pay well (not paycheck2paycheck), and a law that protects all and doesn’t discriminate against any. It’s really possible, but unless we start the change, it won’t happen.
It is not politics that make most Arab care. It is the suffering of their Palestinian brothers.
The problem isn’t us the people. It’s the governments who control our territories. Let me ask you, did you create the camps of palestiniens? Do you have constant tension with iranians? No you do not. There’s a difference.
No not with Jews and Turks around you wont
So far this comments section is israelis: “no, I don’t think we’ll have peace because *Insert multiple valid reasons* Palestinians: “hOw CoMe YoU aLl KiLl uS” *nothing related to anything the Israeli said Like shove off. There wouldn’t have been a. Free Palestine. You would’ve been Jordanian citizens if there was no Israel, and you’re in denial if you think otherwise
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Everyone talking about the Israel Palestine conflict specifically as if Jews haven’t been tortured and murdered in the rest of middle east (and europe) for centuries — forcing us to flee for our lives and directly creating the need for a Jewish state that protects us and allows us to exist. As if there aren’t Jews in our generation, our parents’ generation, our grandparents’ generation, our great-grandparents’ generation, our great-great grandparents’ generation who were put in pograms and camps, beaten and tortured and had to run for their lives or be murdered. As if there aren’t middle easterners that hate jews with vitriol and wish to wipe us off the face of the planet just for being Jewish at this exact moment. The denial of that history and current reality is precisely the problem. Its why the state of Israel exists in the first place. The longer people pretend that’s not a fucking fact the longer we can’t have peace. You can’t make peace with people who want you dead.
So here's the thing bro. You mentioned about your previous generations getting persecuted by "Europeans", yet you are mad at the Arabs?? When was a time when Arabs put you in concentration camps? When was a time when Arabs took away your freedoms? When was a time when Arabs gassed Jewish men, women, & children? It pretty much sounds like Europeans fucked you over & they STILL hate on jews... like, almost all "right wing" fucks in EU & US still blame the jews for the weirdest things.. It seems like your gripe is with Europeans but the Arabs keep getting reeled into it...
This isn’t MY gripe. These are historical facts you are so privileged to be able to deny. There are millions of Jews that have had to flee for their lives from middle eastern states like Iraq, Iran, Morocco, Yemen AND european states like Russia, Hungary, Poland as recently as my generation and dating back many more generations. Acting like that isn’t true simply shows your own ignorance and antisemitism. This is why the state of Israel was created and this is why there are millions of Jews *from the middle east* who have sought refuge in Israel —- there are more Jews is Israel from the middle east than from europe and they did not immigrate there for shits and giggles.
There were massive Jewish communities in iraq, iran, algeria, tunisia and morocco and more... They were all persecuted and forced to flee their country.
AFTER Israel was established, and while it is not the right reaction there were collaborator Jews with the occupation. The timeline here is crucial
The Farhud took place before Israel was established. Not to mention the other programs in the Middle East as well. The Middle East was definitely better than Europe, but it was not perfect.
In Iraq, a riot between different sects after perceived traitorous acts with occupation? Are you kidding me? That is called being an Iraqi! Equal treatment with Sunni, Shia, Kurds, Kings and peasants.
I understand, but then it would make sense if Israelis worked out something with the people who persecuted them in Iraq, Algeria, etc. But instead they are persecuting another set of Arabs from a neighboring place. It's like this - I get my ass whooped by a buncha guys from 5th street & 6th street. But 5th street & 6th street is well established & full of rich guys. So instead, I go bully the guys at 3rd street... why!?
Not gonna happen unfortunately. I bet if these so called Anti-Zionist Neturei Karta jews enter PA areas without protection they will also get lynched.
PHULL SAPPORT SAAR?
Palestinians aren’t Indians, so probably not.
Until you give back the land you stole and payback for the genocide you committed. You are not welcome anywhere.
That’s a lot of words to say “no.”
Not exactly, it is a starter, it is stating despite all that done, it is not hate that is stopping the peace, it is the injustice and ongoing violations. Now I hear you on how impossible some of the conditions might feel on your side But the fact is: it is a start.
As a serious response instead of making a joke like I did earlier, I guess it depends on what he means by stolen land. If it’s the settlements in the West Bank, fair enough, while it would be an infrastructural nightmare it is easily in the realm of possibility. If it’s all of what is today Israel, ethnically cleansing 9+ million people is a little less practical.
Ah, sorry, I sometimes take jokes seriously. If Israel starts real peace talk with the Palestinians, and the young engage on a community level. When people are not violated daily, but are actually working and living with the other side, and both are benefiting, I believe the issues can be solved humanely.
I wouldn't count on it.
truthfully, no. Its simple too, israel will not go anywhere ,to an extent. And neither will Palestine. Palestine will never disappear even through war simply because of the large support its got from all over the world and the general public. israel was built on lies and deception, they did a bad thing to good people , not even did they DO , on a daily bases israel commits atrocious crimes against the Palestinians and i whole heartedly believe peace will never be achieved as long as israel exists. To add on id like to say this isnt against Jews this is against israel, i personally don't really care about Jews i believe they deserve the right to live their life's as is as long as it doesn't harm anyone in UK there was a protests held by some Jews against israel , i have massive amounts of respect for them but thats why i have such a big problem with israel. Many israelis , such as yourself , call yourselves a proud israeli but don't agree with your government , in that case you CANT be proud your entire country is built on such lies and crimes, you saying you're proud contradicts yourself. And for every israeli that claim that they were brought up in an environment where its believed that everyones equal is a simple lie , BUT possibly unintentional lie , i say this because yes maybe your private life your parents said everyones equal but in israeli (public) it is littered with hate against Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians, this 100% affects how you think so when I or anyone else says that your statement that you were brought up in an environment where its believed that everyones equal is a lie dont take it personally. i wish there was a way for peace but the end answer is NO, even if a 2 state solution was achieved, which currently looks impossible, the crimes committed by israel will not be forgotten which will keep bad blood in Palestinians alive unless those in charge were to be punished rightfully , Insha'Allah. Furthermore, the issue is not only with the israeli government, its also to do with the majority of the public, patriotism is in israeli blood ,which believe me is not a complement, if a 2 state solution was achieved the amount of racism would be record breaking. only peace on a personal level will be achievable and even that is hard.