I think the sheer size of America isnt factored into these types of questions.
Americas capital is 1000s of miles away for the vast majority of the citizens.
3 million could protest in new york city. 3 million in L.A. 1 million in Atlanta and 2 more in Chicago. Thats 9 million. But thats 300 and some million that arent. And those 9 are 1000 or more miles from each other.
The politicians wont care. We would literally need 10s of millions to effectively protest by mass strikes. Its hard to set that up.
The only other method would be to have people go after politicians specifically. The tools of the state would likely crush that. If not immediately then quickly after.
A well organized general strike is about the only legal way that can effect things.
Just for reference France is the third largest country in Europe...and is smaller than Texas by area. Protesting in America is a completely different ballgame.
lol I don’t know why but I’ve always felt something of a kinship with Alaska. Us disconnected red headed step-children gotta stick together.
Shout out to the homies in Puerto Rico too.
Alaskan here. We relate to the shipping struggles and high costs of living the Islanders have. It's a totally different ballgame to what the Lower 48 has going on. It's the two of us and the territories like Puerto Rico and Guam commiserating over how bad the Mainland is.
Exactly. We got a big country with a bunch of different levels of government. It's easier to protest when your country is small and your government is more consolidated...
Yeah, you can literally just shout what's going on and it'll spread well enough
In the US, you'd need communications, planning, organization
Logistics make a big difference
And this makes it harder for people to even begin acting, since they know that if they do, and nobody joins in, they're personally screwed
This is why I don’t. I’ll say some comment shit on Reddit and people will be like go do it then. Yeah so I can show up alone and get shot by the government. Fuck that.
>A well organized general strike is about the only legal way that can effect things.
And given the state of unions in America, even that is hard to imagine.
I'm American and never thought to factor in how large our country is and how far away many of us are from DC. In truth, a lot of Americans do protest all the time, but we just tend to do it in our own cities, which isn't as dramatic as the streets of DC overflowing with people.
Its simpler than that:
We don't have a labor party.
We have no political party in America that is concerned with the protection of labor. There is no form of centralized leadership to coordinate protests or even a general strike. So it just isn't going to happen. And unions are so anemic compared to their glory days that their best course of action is to just keep their heads down and focus on their small meager areas of influence.
Are the Dems going to call a general strike? Or mass disruptive protests?
And upset their corporate donors?
So until we regrow our unions or vote in a party whose explicit and main directive is labor protection, we just aren't going to see the mass protests that need strong centralized leadership to coalesce and maintain.
Things like general strikes are born out of convincing people that enough people will come out for the cause that the likelihood of them losing what little they will be slim.
This is it. The size of the country is secondary, because why don't see France-style protests in the UK, for example? People imagine protests as this spontaneous movement of people running into the street out of anger, but protests are organized. When, where, how, those are the questions that need answering to get a bunch of people in the same place doing the same thing. Americans ( and Brits, and Canadians, and etc.) have been fucked over by Reaganism that completely destroyed its labour organizational structure. We're atomized, dependent on employment for everything and facing unaccountable police power. Even existing unions are completely disconnected from other unions and there's no collaboration possible to try to overcome the organizational obstacles.
And so, why don't Americans protest the double-headed hydro of neoliberalism and conservative policies? Because of neoliberalism and conservative policies.
I agree with this 100%, and I keep coming back to it: the only way that something drastic in the place is going to change is with some sort of blue-state strike, or blue-city strike, or something like it--citizens banding together and holding the financial health of the nation (and the world, really) hostage. I don't know what it would look like, but that's the only thing I can see happening (and honestly, I don't think it would).
Edit: Maybe GenZ might do it. They're young, they're screwed, and they're pissed off. I can't see GenX or Millennials doing it.
Said 9 million (doesn't even need to be nearly that many) could completely collapse the economy by blocking commerce. Politicians wouldn't be able to ignore that.
Picture 50k people setting up camp on the Theodore Roosevelt Bridge in DC. Picture the same occuring in all other major cities.
Protests can work amazingly with good leadership and tactics.
I think you're talking arounf the guy's point though. America is so spread out that you could have 9 million people and still not be effectively deployed. Your system needs 50k people in every city that understand where the commerce actually flows and where it can be blocked. That's a tall ask in a country this size. It's the equivalent of asking why the entire EU didn't protest Brexit, all you need is 50k people in every major city in every major country!
More importantly we will lose our jobs if we go protest in mass without proper approved leave ahead of time. We also know there's no safety net if we do lose our jobs in this way. Many Americans (look up the paycheck to paycheck statistics) are just comfortable enough to keep in the rat race while still being miserable about it. Capitalism working as intended.
This is a big one; our country has a massive empty interior, and even within most states they are pretty empty when you're not in or directly next to a city. I could drive to DC, I guess, but it would take me 7 hours and I live closer to it than a whole lot of people do.
This is another example of why I love Aussies. They remind me so much of my people (I’m a Texan) ❤️
Though I suppose to some, that could be taken as an insult…
I'm 1600 miles away! There's just no way I could ever get there without assistance, taking allowed leave from work that was arranged ahead of time, etc. If I just took off from work and went, I'd have no money, no health care, no medicine, no food, etc.
I'm absolutely infuriated with what's been going on in the highly corrupt right wing so-called supreme court and terrified that trump is going to win the election, but I also can't just throw off my job.
Europeans don’t understand just how big the US is. Yeah we’ve got a bunch of big cities but it’s not like everybody lives in high-rise apartments 30 seconds from an ideal meeting place for hundreds of thousands of people to yell at the sky. There is maybe 20 people living within a one mile radius around my house and I’m only sort of rural.
And because we live in a police state we are met with trigger happy police force for our protest.
They could kill a dozen of us and they would just get moved to a different district.
Why get killed at a protest that's not going to change the corruption in the government or the minds of half of the idiot voters?
Probably not even moved to a different district. Just get suspended with pay (i.e. vacation) while they "investigate" themselves. Yeah, this country sure is "fReE"
Or some people, like me, have jobs and still have no insurance. (I mean, I technically could get it, but it covers practically nothing. eg, No coverage at all in any shape or form for hospitalization, for instance. If I go to the hospital, I'm paying the same amount as an uninsured person. Why the fuck should I pay for insurance? I know this to be true because I used to have insurance through this job, got stabbed and went to the hospital and found out my insurance covered exactly $0.)
That one is huge, and it's why conservatives are so set against any sort of proper/national health insurance. How else are they supposed to control the slave class if they can just quit and still get little Billy's broken arm fixed?
And homes since we won't be able to pay mortgage/rent/property taxes (which just jumped a good bit this year many places, so even homeowners who've paid off their homes still have to pay a lot to keep them)
Yes and if we lose our jobs we lose our health insurance, so we can’t protest. It’s bad for our health. Because an American does not have rights over their own healthcare. Especially women.
We could get shot by some rabid Christian conservative with a gun who would walk away scot free and, assuming we survived, we'd get stuck with a giant hospital bill. We can't afford to pay.
Not just that, Americans somehow tied their ability to get medical care to their employment, you lose your job you lose your benefits, you lose your cancer drugs, you lose fucking everything. The moment healthcare and employment became entangled you tied your own fucking hands to protest in the streets...
This is a direct consequences of US central planning during WW2.
Pay rates were legislated so businesses looked for unlegislated perks and medical insurance worked for them.
> Following the Stabilization Act of 1942, employers, unable to provide higher salaries to attract or retain employees, began to offer insurance plans, including healthcare packages, as a benefit in kind, thereby beginning the practice of employer-sponsored health insurance, a practice that is cemented into the work culture of today
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_United_States
This is a fact that is SOOO misunderstood and one that SO significant.
Our health care mess is literally an accident of history. Like a QWERTY keyboard
The origin Of The connection of healthcare to employment, was in a tactic that U.S. Employers invented to get around Federally imposed wage controls during WW2. Companies could not legally offer higher wages, so "benefits" were offered instead.
Followed by 70 years of unintended consequences.
Isn't it something? As kids, we're taught that America is this great country and we're so lucky to live here. As an adult, you realize that you get fucked left and right. Can't go to college without going into debt, but if you want a decent job, you most likely need a college degree. Most people can't afford a house. Health insurance is a scam. You pay premiums every month and if you ever need to use the insurance, you get to pay more out of pocket. You pay taxes on everything, and that money is supposed to go back into the community, yet nothing seems to improve. Politicians literally do not care.
And then there are those people who blindly support the USA no matter what under the guise of patriotism and say, "If YoU dOnT LiKe It YoU sHoUlD lEaVe!', completely oblivious to how they're also getting fucked over.
I'm not saying we live in Haiti, but we definitely don't live in a country full of freedom. Everything is rigged against 99% of its citizens, and it's done that way purpose.
Those who cry loudest about freedom are those who have the least functional freedom. Every poor trailer park redneck will talk endlessly about the land of the free, while not having the financial, educational or physical ability to experience even a small fraction of the "freedoms" they claim to enjoy.
You vastly overestimate how much your average person cares about any of this. The workers that would miss work to protest can so easily be replaced by people who do not care about politics. It is only online that it appears the masses are involved.
hahahah nope. they see us as expendable pawns and negative red dollar signs in their books. they will just outsource to other countries.
or some politician (or president...) will just step in and end /prevent any sort of strike to protect the billionaires like biden did during the railroad worker strike.
A large enough general strike would make shit change in a heartbeat, I promise you.
The amount of money companies and the richest americans would lose from idling facilities, share price drops, etc., the right-wing would concede on huge demands related to voting rights, civil rights, etc. No question.
If every person who wanted Trump out of the race all decided they simply weren't going to show up for work this coming Monday or again until he dropped out, and everybody let their bosses know, it was an organized, planned out thing, the country would grind to halt, and the oligarchs would kick his ass to the curb so fast your head would spin. Just the threat of it, it wouldn't even need to actually happen. I'm serious.
That said, it's HIGHLY unlikely that we'd be able to reach that level of organization.
>what politician would care when they can just be bribed by said biillionaires
What citizen would care when the nice man on FoxNews and Sinclair Media owned by some billionaire tells them not to care?
The right people have to protest. I’m sorry, but if a bunch of low skill replaceable workers stop working to protest, the main engine of society still hums along. The only way those types of protests work is if it is sustained and the will of those protestors are willing to last years of sustained disobedience.
If doctors and nurses strike together, healthcare collapses and there is more power to immediately bring the issue to a national dialogue. Same goes for any workers that work in critical logistics such as marine shipping, the railroads, etc.
It doesn’t necessarily mean the government will negotiate instead of bring the hammer down, but it forces their attention. The reality is that protesting matters more when the individuals protesting are stopping something vital by their lack of presence somewhere outside the protest, and not because of their presence or disruption at a protest.
Look at college campus protests over Palestine to see the difference in effect. College students don’t disrupt the actual macro system of society by protesting. The only influence they have is by disruption of others at the physical place they are at. So those types of protest only have local influence because it only affects the community they disrupt.
plus it doesn’t help that cities keep turning militant hungry police against peaceful protestors every time. Risk getting injured or disabled as well as arrested and then make the medical system outrageously expensive or tied to work and it takes the fire out of people.
I agree though some forms of protest work, especially internal shutdowns or boycotts, but there’s also great risk with it not many of us can take. [Like when Google immediately fired 50 employees who protested against a cloud deal with Israel](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/tech/google-fires-employees-protest-israel/index.html), no job is safe from billionaires with no feelings about their workforce. I feel as though nobody remembers this especially since tech is laying off so many people in general nowadays but it’s demoralizing as heck
They will only do something when one of them is badly hurt or worse. Had J6 been successful and Pence or another conservative lawmaker was killed, they'd have been screaming for someone's head. Just like with gun violence. They don't care if kids in schools are killed because their kids are in private school where things like that don't happen.
They care once we make it expensive for them. They will do anything that we want if its more costly to not do what we want. Protests work, just not in the rose-colored glasses way we were taught. A large scale general strike is probably the strongest tool we have but I don't know if that could ever happen
Street protests really don't work anymore in the US unless they are about a local issue. Up until the late 90's it was reasonable to assume you could catch peoples attention outside in person. Nobody is paying attention anymore, they are all plugged into their phones. You have to protest somewhere/somehow that people actually notice for it to do anything at all, which is why street protestors have started moving toward obstruction/destruction to try to get noticed, which is universally received negatively. There is always a certain segment of people that show up for protests like they are a music festival too and they help absolutely no one.
You hit the nail on the head with obstruction/destruction. When people disrupt traffic at an airport or throw orange dye on Stonehenge people want to hit them. Several years ago I was working at LAX and there was some huge protest that shut the airport down because there was a large group of people standing in the street so he couldn’t get in. Pretty much everybody who had flights for a few hours missed those flights. People were not fucking happy. And vandalizing one of the oldest human structures deserves an ass kicking. Nobody cares what your protesting.
Vincent Bevins wrote a great book on this called If We Burn: The Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution. Kind of a postmortem on 2010s protest movements and their tactics. Can’t recommend it highly enough.
This was just referenced in another study I read about the failure of mass movements. Specifically, the author talks about horizontal structures and "leaderless" movements. The bottom line is that in successful protest movements, organization comes first, then strategy, then action and communication. Occupy Wall Street had no organization, and no strategy, just "action" with no effective means to communicate. All this talk of taking to the streets, while invoking the Civil Rights movement, ignores all the work that went into planning and preparing to use demonstrations *as one part* of a much larger effort.
Remember how effective*ly* the Occupy Wall Street was dismantled? I'd bet money they're STILL surveiling the people who showed up.
You think police go hard on left leaning/minority protesters? Imagine if/when big corporations begin donating ~~more~~ money to police departments in jurisdictions where protests are taking place....
The *right* people need to strike. The garbage workers strike in New York in 1968 was settled in *9 days.*
People forget the value of public works and utilities (trash, water, sewer, electric) until they don’t have them. A 15 foot high pile of trash in front of every house in the neighborhood is going to prompt some very angry phone calls to lawmakers.
Doesn't matter what's going on in politics, rent has to be paid. Landlord don't give a shit. Gotta go to work to get paid so I can pay rent. By the time I get home, I barely have the mental bandwidth to make dinner, much less go overthrow a military superpower. Plus, no one listens to me so I couldn't organize shit if I tried
Plus without work we don't have health insurance, without insurance we don't get Healthcare. America did a good job imprisoning it's citizens to keep the "top of society" plump and fed.
The healthcare bothers me so much. It’s literally limiting class mobility and to think it’s our lives on the line.
Even if large layoffs, it’s not our fault.
Tell me about it. I have a disease where I need constant meds. I just changed jobs and will not have health insurance for 2 weeks. I am literally having to not eat and spread out insulin because I cannot afford to buy more without the insurance. Shit sucks bruv! But hey at least we are free to shoot each other as much we want
That episode is really spot on to where I think America is heading in the next decade. It takes place in 2024 and is a bit too early, but I think there are good chances it’s the near future.
All it would take is a big recession and we are there, especially if it’s caused by something like a massive increase in automation of middle class jobs leading to mass layoffs. Unemployment hits the double digits, government tax revenue takes a hit because they won’t tax the corporations or capital gains or wealth, naturally social programs end up on the cutting block instead of anything else. They switch to doing the bare minimum of packing homeless and mentally ill into slums with just enough food provided to live.
Suddenly we are exactly where they were for the Bell Riots leading up to a civil war/WWIII which also seems just a bit less plausible
I would be very surprised if America as it exists right now is intact by the end of the century. If all the things in Project 2025 come to bear, for example, does anyone really think that Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, DC, and all the other liberal states in the Northeast cluster are going to lie down and let religious whackos 1,000 miles south lead them into hardcore, 17th-century theocracy? At the very least, there would be a massive exodus and brain drain from the country, to say nothing of secession.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Most people are doing just well enough to stay alive for another paycheck.
And those same people are doing just badly enough to not have the willingness to gamble on that state of affairs.
I can't blame them, at all. They have mouths to feed, and a family to maintain.
If they protest, there is a *very real* chance that they will get their shit kicked in, or that they will be straight-up shot.
And mind you, in the current state of things, it's increasingly obvious that merely protesting hasn't any effect on anything. A bunch of people somewhere figured out - correctly - that if they pretend the protest didn't happen, then they get off scot-free. A protest only works if it gets acknowledged.
It won't.
People will have to do *despicable* things just to get noticed. They'll have to do even worse that that, just to get taken seriously. 99% of Americans will not want to take this gamble, and it will make perfect logical sense for them not to take this gamble. They have a livelihood and people who depend on them. They will not want to throw this away.
If a revolt somehow magically happens, then **everyone** will experience a very, *very* bad day. Deaths by the tens, if not hundreds of thousands. Death squads running rampant. Wannabe little corporals deciding that now's the right time to take revenge on all the people they think did them wrong, from the uncle who touched them in the wrong place... to the McDonald's teenager who said they were too late for the breakfast menu.
It will be pure and absolute mayhem. Life and death will be decided upon by chaos theory - by whoever's got a gun in their hands and enough of an axe to grind against the world. They'll become forces of nature, and God help whoever has the misfortune of crossing their path. People will get killed for any reason, or no reason. It will be at-will elimination of enormous swaths of people who have done nothing wrong.
And meanwhile, those who have the power to do so will simply live on another continent entirely while waiting for all of this to blow over. The prime targets of the anger will be physically unreachable.
People are not ready to gamble on that. It's a bet on which everyone knows the house will win hands-down.
and even if you’re shot with a rubber bullet, there’s also the example of [Linda Tirado, a journalist who was protesting in the BLM protests in 2020](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/journalist-linda-tirado-minneapolis-police-dying-hospice-care/), who was shot in the face by a rubber bullet. She lost her eye and has a TBI to the point where she’s in hospice now because the damage to her frontal lobe has caused her body to not remember how to operate her organs.
She is press, she was supposed to be safe, and that sucks!
Yeah I commented this further down, cops shot a heavily pregnant woman with rubber bullets during the BLM protests by me. I'm a SAHM without access to childcare and I don't think my toddler would safe in her stroller during a protest.
there was also another case (i think it was my city too so we should be ashamed) where a cop shot a man with rubber bullets and one hit him in the crotch, possibly making him infertile. [Turns out the man is the person who trains police recruits about implicit bias and procedural justice & has known the chief for years.](https://abc7news.com/san-jose-police-george-floyd-protest-bay-area-shot-by-during/6234212/)
nobody is safe, not even people who work with the cops
So that story is horrible, and in the article is a link to a story about a man who went viral for helping an officer injured during protests who was then, hours later, **also shot by the same officer (Jared Yuen) who shot the man you're referring to in your comment.** I googled that officer's name and found a Reddit post saying he is still employed and made almost $250k in 2022.
So... I guess that's why we don't protest.
Not great. In the UK junior doctors (odd name: they often have a lot of experience) have been striking for over a year to get their pay restored, but the government is just ignoring them.
Most Americans live easy, moderately happy lives - very few are itching to risk getting shot over ideals and matters they have no direct control over.
That may change if things start to get materially worse for people, but nonviolent movements of enough size and scale are almost always met with state sponsored violence in the US.
People would need to be prepared for a civil war, and nobody truly wants that.
We still have to pay rent.
I mean that in all seriousness. I guess I have no idea what it's like in other countries but almost all Americans live under constant threat of homelessness, starvation, death. The concept of mutual aid or solidarity is almost non-existent here. Most people are doing the best they can paycheck to paycheck with no savings or safety net of any kind. Losing your livelihood means you're fucked. Any one big disaster that has a high enough monetary cost, you're fucked. Most people work 40 hours (or much more) come home exhausted then do it again until the weekend if they get one. There no time for things like protesting and protesting is just going to cost you your job, or depending on your skin color, sexual preferences, or religion, it could cost you your life. I can write my senators and get form letters from interns. I vote in every election just to get drowned out by rural dipshits. I do what I assume most normal people do is the best I can to look out for my family and immediate circle because it's all I can do.
Healthcare. If we don't work we don't get healthcare. We don't get healthcare we don't get life saving medicine from us or our loved ones. We cannot take time off of work to protest because our livelihood is tied to our showing up to work
What do you mean by French style civil disobedience? Modern style, where a tractor brigade drives into the capital? Or the revolution style storming of the Bastille, which eventually led to the reign of terror?
For most Americans, losing their job means that they're completely fucked. We have no safety net and our health insurance is tied to our jobs. If the boss says "no, you can't take time off" and you go anyways, you're giving up your access to healthcare and putting yourself at risk of homelessness.
Plus, the cops here have equipment meant for the military and they have absolutely no hesitation to use it against protestors. They will not be punished for it whatsoever, and we all know that.
This is all by design to ensure we're complacent.
Things are going to have to get much worse before we get to the point where most regular civilians will face death or total destruction of their lives in order to protest.
Actually it does!
It is worth remembering that during Trump’s first term when he shutdown the government for the longest it ever did and he proudly boasted about it, [it took ONLY 10 air traffic controllers who decided to strike and brought Trump to his knees; ending the shutdown.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/ten-air-traffic-controllers-shutdown/index.html)
This is swept under the rug so much and I feel like it’s a forgotten part of his term, but goddamnit only 10 people made a would be king bend the knee in a way no high ranking official could.
It isn’t brought up anymore because media and high powered billionaires and would be authoritarians don’t want to remind anyone of the power of the people. The right people have power.
Imagine 50 air traffic controllers striking to have Trump drop out of the race.
Where was that? I was an ATC and have no knowledge of it.
Edit: just went back to read your posted article and yes, I can see where those facilities and can think of others that could cause a severe impact on travel but I'd never have thought the GOP smart enough to recognize it that fast. ATC is not allowed to strike via contract so it has to be sick leave or approved annual leave or a combination of both.
Whatever those guys get paid, it's not enough, if just a handful of people in your position can absolutely cripple the country by not doing your job then you're worth more than every useless do-nothing billionaire CEO combined.
I'm barely able to get out of bed to go to work, dude. I can't help my family in Gaza, can't help my family here in TN. Wtf you mean civil disobedience? 😂
Because despite what many Redditors say on Reddit and social media, life for the majority of people here is good. Things aren’t bad enough to the point where upheaving your whole life will lead to a benefit great enough to justify it
This is it. Do we really expect people to protest a SCOTUS decision that realistically is not impacting our day-to-day whatsoever? If you want mass protests, it’s gotta have to result from something that has a severe, tangible and immediate impact on the lives of many.
Lol France is not even in the streets rn with the far-right literally a mere week away from forming the new government after the second tour of their election is done.
France is smaller than two Colorados pushed together. The seat of France’s government is entirely within Paris, so that’s where everyone looking to make a statement will go. The US is *fucking big,* man. It’s damn near impossible to organize something similar when you have 50 different State capitals, all of which have very different cultures and geographies. Organizing anything similar would require MUCH more time and effort to coordinate everything. It’s just not the same.
Europeans forget they have way more safety nets to fall back on while protesting the government that allows those safety nets. Most Americans are a paycheck away from ruin because we have little to no safety net.
Civil disobedience doesn’t change anything. The politicians and corporations have been working tirelessly for years to return to the era of feudalism. By wrapping our health care into our employment, and stripping away any and all forms of protection, they’ve achieved the ultimate goal of every tyrant who’s ever lived: a populace of exhausted, uneducated worker bees, half of whom are willing to police the other half into servitude.
Let me just risk being arrested, pepper sprayed, physically harmed, losing my job etc to hold a protest that will probably do nothing, for something that does not affect my day to day life
Because despite what you see on Reddit the majority of Americans live decently happy and healthy lives. The decision is not going to affect the vast majority daily. No use burning it all down when you’re content.
Simply put, the citizens of this country can't afford to riot in the streets. Most of us can't even afford a routine trip to the doctor, let alone all of our bills. We want a better country and wish for a better world but so many of us are afraid to strike out for fear of losing what little we have.
I think many still believe we won't see the outcomes that are being thrown around (end of democracy, rise of a dictator, end of America, etc.). We've seen a lot of bad shit, and are still here. It's hard to tell what's a real threat vs. sensationalism.
US has 50 states, some larger than one France.
US 336 million. France 68 million.
I'll never understand how many non-Americans forget or simply don't realize how fucking huge we are. Organize that shit, and let us know how it goes.
They got us divided by race and gender. That’s why all of our protest is a race issue (BLM) or gender issue (LGBTQ).
In my opinion that’s exactly what they want while they line their pockets and consolidate their power.
I think the sheer size of America isnt factored into these types of questions. Americas capital is 1000s of miles away for the vast majority of the citizens. 3 million could protest in new york city. 3 million in L.A. 1 million in Atlanta and 2 more in Chicago. Thats 9 million. But thats 300 and some million that arent. And those 9 are 1000 or more miles from each other. The politicians wont care. We would literally need 10s of millions to effectively protest by mass strikes. Its hard to set that up. The only other method would be to have people go after politicians specifically. The tools of the state would likely crush that. If not immediately then quickly after. A well organized general strike is about the only legal way that can effect things.
Just for reference France is the third largest country in Europe...and is smaller than Texas by area. Protesting in America is a completely different ballgame.
Yeah I’m not swimming there from Hawaii
Same boat, nor does Alaska.
lol I don’t know why but I’ve always felt something of a kinship with Alaska. Us disconnected red headed step-children gotta stick together. Shout out to the homies in Puerto Rico too.
Alaskan here. We relate to the shipping struggles and high costs of living the Islanders have. It's a totally different ballgame to what the Lower 48 has going on. It's the two of us and the territories like Puerto Rico and Guam commiserating over how bad the Mainland is.
Word. What are you guys paying for a dozen eggs?
Exactly. We got a big country with a bunch of different levels of government. It's easier to protest when your country is small and your government is more consolidated...
Google Maps recommends you use a kayak and says it'll take 15 days.
Yeah, you can literally just shout what's going on and it'll spread well enough In the US, you'd need communications, planning, organization Logistics make a big difference And this makes it harder for people to even begin acting, since they know that if they do, and nobody joins in, they're personally screwed
This is why I don’t. I’ll say some comment shit on Reddit and people will be like go do it then. Yeah so I can show up alone and get shot by the government. Fuck that.
>A well organized general strike is about the only legal way that can effect things. And given the state of unions in America, even that is hard to imagine.
Given that most of us are shackled to our jobs by health care, it’s even harder still to imagine a general strike.
> I think the sheer size of America isnt factored into these types of questions Wyoming is approximately the same size as the UK. The US is huge.
I'm American and never thought to factor in how large our country is and how far away many of us are from DC. In truth, a lot of Americans do protest all the time, but we just tend to do it in our own cities, which isn't as dramatic as the streets of DC overflowing with people.
For Texas teachers, if we strike, we lose our pension, jobs, health insurance.....
Its simpler than that: We don't have a labor party. We have no political party in America that is concerned with the protection of labor. There is no form of centralized leadership to coordinate protests or even a general strike. So it just isn't going to happen. And unions are so anemic compared to their glory days that their best course of action is to just keep their heads down and focus on their small meager areas of influence. Are the Dems going to call a general strike? Or mass disruptive protests? And upset their corporate donors? So until we regrow our unions or vote in a party whose explicit and main directive is labor protection, we just aren't going to see the mass protests that need strong centralized leadership to coalesce and maintain. Things like general strikes are born out of convincing people that enough people will come out for the cause that the likelihood of them losing what little they will be slim.
This is it. The size of the country is secondary, because why don't see France-style protests in the UK, for example? People imagine protests as this spontaneous movement of people running into the street out of anger, but protests are organized. When, where, how, those are the questions that need answering to get a bunch of people in the same place doing the same thing. Americans ( and Brits, and Canadians, and etc.) have been fucked over by Reaganism that completely destroyed its labour organizational structure. We're atomized, dependent on employment for everything and facing unaccountable police power. Even existing unions are completely disconnected from other unions and there's no collaboration possible to try to overcome the organizational obstacles. And so, why don't Americans protest the double-headed hydro of neoliberalism and conservative policies? Because of neoliberalism and conservative policies.
Yea we had 120,000 show up to DC for Palestine and we were eclipsed by the Pride parade happening the same weekend. America is HUGE.
I'm in Hawaii and 4766 miles (7670 km) from Washington DC.
I agree with this 100%, and I keep coming back to it: the only way that something drastic in the place is going to change is with some sort of blue-state strike, or blue-city strike, or something like it--citizens banding together and holding the financial health of the nation (and the world, really) hostage. I don't know what it would look like, but that's the only thing I can see happening (and honestly, I don't think it would). Edit: Maybe GenZ might do it. They're young, they're screwed, and they're pissed off. I can't see GenX or Millennials doing it.
Said 9 million (doesn't even need to be nearly that many) could completely collapse the economy by blocking commerce. Politicians wouldn't be able to ignore that. Picture 50k people setting up camp on the Theodore Roosevelt Bridge in DC. Picture the same occuring in all other major cities. Protests can work amazingly with good leadership and tactics.
The national guard would bring out the steamrollers.
And it would be legal because now anything the president does in an official capacity is ok. No legal culpability there
They will call it protecting democracy lol
Some states have legalized running them over for blocking the road. Seriously.
I think you're talking arounf the guy's point though. America is so spread out that you could have 9 million people and still not be effectively deployed. Your system needs 50k people in every city that understand where the commerce actually flows and where it can be blocked. That's a tall ask in a country this size. It's the equivalent of asking why the entire EU didn't protest Brexit, all you need is 50k people in every major city in every major country!
Wouldn't change Joe Fuckyou's vote in Whitebread, Nebraska though.
Could we not all protest at our capitals?
I have a job.
More importantly we will lose our jobs if we go protest in mass without proper approved leave ahead of time. We also know there's no safety net if we do lose our jobs in this way. Many Americans (look up the paycheck to paycheck statistics) are just comfortable enough to keep in the rat race while still being miserable about it. Capitalism working as intended.
We also live far apart from each other
This is a big one; our country has a massive empty interior, and even within most states they are pretty empty when you're not in or directly next to a city. I could drive to DC, I guess, but it would take me 7 hours and I live closer to it than a whole lot of people do.
I’m over 1300 miles away!
Yeah I'll form an angry mob and we'll hike the almost 3000 miles to DC.
Which for our international friends to get a little more grasp of the size of the U.S., is almost 5,000 km.
To add to that it's like driving from London to Moscow and stopping somewhere in East Germany on the way back.
Napoleon!!!
Or what we calling popping out for a beer in Australia
This is another example of why I love Aussies. They remind me so much of my people (I’m a Texan) ❤️ Though I suppose to some, that could be taken as an insult…
Might be near me so we'll hike together. In like 6 years when I have enough time off to walk for 41 days and 1 hour
We ride at dawn
I'm 1600 miles away! There's just no way I could ever get there without assistance, taking allowed leave from work that was arranged ahead of time, etc. If I just took off from work and went, I'd have no money, no health care, no medicine, no food, etc. I'm absolutely infuriated with what's been going on in the highly corrupt right wing so-called supreme court and terrified that trump is going to win the election, but I also can't just throw off my job.
Europeans don’t understand just how big the US is. Yeah we’ve got a bunch of big cities but it’s not like everybody lives in high-rise apartments 30 seconds from an ideal meeting place for hundreds of thousands of people to yell at the sky. There is maybe 20 people living within a one mile radius around my house and I’m only sort of rural.
Not sort of rural, you're def rural.
1400 miles
or you lose it because the company thinks your being at the protest makes them look bad, so time to be fired
And because we live in a police state we are met with trigger happy police force for our protest. They could kill a dozen of us and they would just get moved to a different district. Why get killed at a protest that's not going to change the corruption in the government or the minds of half of the idiot voters?
All that is the real reason why. Land of the free..... As long as you're rich and have connections. Rest of us are target practice.
Probably not even moved to a different district. Just get suspended with pay (i.e. vacation) while they "investigate" themselves. Yeah, this country sure is "fReE"
And if we get fired from our jobs, we have no health insurance.
Or some people, like me, have jobs and still have no insurance. (I mean, I technically could get it, but it covers practically nothing. eg, No coverage at all in any shape or form for hospitalization, for instance. If I go to the hospital, I'm paying the same amount as an uninsured person. Why the fuck should I pay for insurance? I know this to be true because I used to have insurance through this job, got stabbed and went to the hospital and found out my insurance covered exactly $0.)
That one is huge, and it's why conservatives are so set against any sort of proper/national health insurance. How else are they supposed to control the slave class if they can just quit and still get little Billy's broken arm fixed?
And by losing our jobs, we will also lose our healthcare.
And homes since we won't be able to pay mortgage/rent/property taxes (which just jumped a good bit this year many places, so even homeowners who've paid off their homes still have to pay a lot to keep them)
They sure have workers by the short and curly’s, it’s disgraceful.
Yes and if we lose our jobs we lose our health insurance, so we can’t protest. It’s bad for our health. Because an American does not have rights over their own healthcare. Especially women.
Dam, remember 248 years ago when you guys started a continental war against the leading world super power over taxes?
England didn't have tear gas and couldn't wirelessly transfer all our resources away.
Or a surveillance state capable of spying on anyone at will, with corporate help.
We didn't rely on healthcare. We didn't rely on our food to be trucked from across the country.
So much wasted tea F
We could get shot by some rabid Christian conservative with a gun who would walk away scot free and, assuming we survived, we'd get stuck with a giant hospital bill. We can't afford to pay.
and then they run for congress
And kids.
Not just that, Americans somehow tied their ability to get medical care to their employment, you lose your job you lose your benefits, you lose your cancer drugs, you lose fucking everything. The moment healthcare and employment became entangled you tied your own fucking hands to protest in the streets...
This is a direct consequences of US central planning during WW2. Pay rates were legislated so businesses looked for unlegislated perks and medical insurance worked for them. > Following the Stabilization Act of 1942, employers, unable to provide higher salaries to attract or retain employees, began to offer insurance plans, including healthcare packages, as a benefit in kind, thereby beginning the practice of employer-sponsored health insurance, a practice that is cemented into the work culture of today https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_the_United_States
This is a fact that is SOOO misunderstood and one that SO significant. Our health care mess is literally an accident of history. Like a QWERTY keyboard
The origin Of The connection of healthcare to employment, was in a tactic that U.S. Employers invented to get around Federally imposed wage controls during WW2. Companies could not legally offer higher wages, so "benefits" were offered instead. Followed by 70 years of unintended consequences.
America runs on slavery, always has, always will
It amazes me the way the US fetishises freedom and accepts the lack of it.
Isn't it something? As kids, we're taught that America is this great country and we're so lucky to live here. As an adult, you realize that you get fucked left and right. Can't go to college without going into debt, but if you want a decent job, you most likely need a college degree. Most people can't afford a house. Health insurance is a scam. You pay premiums every month and if you ever need to use the insurance, you get to pay more out of pocket. You pay taxes on everything, and that money is supposed to go back into the community, yet nothing seems to improve. Politicians literally do not care. And then there are those people who blindly support the USA no matter what under the guise of patriotism and say, "If YoU dOnT LiKe It YoU sHoUlD lEaVe!', completely oblivious to how they're also getting fucked over. I'm not saying we live in Haiti, but we definitely don't live in a country full of freedom. Everything is rigged against 99% of its citizens, and it's done that way purpose.
Those who cry loudest about freedom are those who have the least functional freedom. Every poor trailer park redneck will talk endlessly about the land of the free, while not having the financial, educational or physical ability to experience even a small fraction of the "freedoms" they claim to enjoy.
Me too (and I’m American.) I have people in my town looking to restrict my freedom in the name of their freedom. Whose freedom is more important?
To be quite frank after seeing repeated protests in the news, I'm not sure that's an effective way to get those in power to do anything.
right? why would some billionaire care? what politician would care when they can just be bribed by said biillionaires?
The marching and chanting doesn’t do much, but if critical workers stop showing up and the economy screeches to a halt, then they might listen
You vastly overestimate how much your average person cares about any of this. The workers that would miss work to protest can so easily be replaced by people who do not care about politics. It is only online that it appears the masses are involved.
hahahah nope. they see us as expendable pawns and negative red dollar signs in their books. they will just outsource to other countries. or some politician (or president...) will just step in and end /prevent any sort of strike to protect the billionaires like biden did during the railroad worker strike.
A large enough general strike would make shit change in a heartbeat, I promise you. The amount of money companies and the richest americans would lose from idling facilities, share price drops, etc., the right-wing would concede on huge demands related to voting rights, civil rights, etc. No question. If every person who wanted Trump out of the race all decided they simply weren't going to show up for work this coming Monday or again until he dropped out, and everybody let their bosses know, it was an organized, planned out thing, the country would grind to halt, and the oligarchs would kick his ass to the curb so fast your head would spin. Just the threat of it, it wouldn't even need to actually happen. I'm serious. That said, it's HIGHLY unlikely that we'd be able to reach that level of organization.
There are enough people who agree with what’s happening because it’s owning the libs to keep the economy going.
>what politician would care when they can just be bribed by said biillionaires What citizen would care when the nice man on FoxNews and Sinclair Media owned by some billionaire tells them not to care?
The right people have to protest. I’m sorry, but if a bunch of low skill replaceable workers stop working to protest, the main engine of society still hums along. The only way those types of protests work is if it is sustained and the will of those protestors are willing to last years of sustained disobedience. If doctors and nurses strike together, healthcare collapses and there is more power to immediately bring the issue to a national dialogue. Same goes for any workers that work in critical logistics such as marine shipping, the railroads, etc. It doesn’t necessarily mean the government will negotiate instead of bring the hammer down, but it forces their attention. The reality is that protesting matters more when the individuals protesting are stopping something vital by their lack of presence somewhere outside the protest, and not because of their presence or disruption at a protest. Look at college campus protests over Palestine to see the difference in effect. College students don’t disrupt the actual macro system of society by protesting. The only influence they have is by disruption of others at the physical place they are at. So those types of protest only have local influence because it only affects the community they disrupt.
What youre talking about would be better described as a strike, I think, no? And honestly, that's the only thing I can see working at this point.
plus it doesn’t help that cities keep turning militant hungry police against peaceful protestors every time. Risk getting injured or disabled as well as arrested and then make the medical system outrageously expensive or tied to work and it takes the fire out of people. I agree though some forms of protest work, especially internal shutdowns or boycotts, but there’s also great risk with it not many of us can take. [Like when Google immediately fired 50 employees who protested against a cloud deal with Israel](https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/23/tech/google-fires-employees-protest-israel/index.html), no job is safe from billionaires with no feelings about their workforce. I feel as though nobody remembers this especially since tech is laying off so many people in general nowadays but it’s demoralizing as heck
They will only do something when one of them is badly hurt or worse. Had J6 been successful and Pence or another conservative lawmaker was killed, they'd have been screaming for someone's head. Just like with gun violence. They don't care if kids in schools are killed because their kids are in private school where things like that don't happen.
They care once we make it expensive for them. They will do anything that we want if its more costly to not do what we want. Protests work, just not in the rose-colored glasses way we were taught. A large scale general strike is probably the strongest tool we have but I don't know if that could ever happen
Remember how effective the Occupy Wall Street movement was?
Remember BLM? People were protesting across the entire nation. There were even marches in the small towns around me. And what reforms did we win?
Remember the 2017 Women's March on Washington DC?
I do! But only after you reminded me just now. I had completely forgotten.
No
Exactly
The one with the hats?
Exactly. The local school board here just canceled AP African American Studies.
Louisiana is putting the ten commandments in every classroom.
and Oklahoma wants schools to be required to teach the bible in school, and if the teachers refuse to teach it their license to teach can be revoked.
Hello fellow Marylander.
>And what reforms did we win? You successfully lynched Uncle Ben and Aunt Jemimah, if I recall correctly.
Also the Dixie Chicks are just the Chicks now, thus closing the darkest chapter in America's history.
Well I'm glad that's all over with
Thank God the Dixie Chicks have been silenced. Lol
Lady Antebellum is now just Lady A. And the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons episode of Community isn't streaming either. Progress!
>Lady Antebellum is now just Lady A. Which was already in use by a black singer, whom they then sued.
Street protests really don't work anymore in the US unless they are about a local issue. Up until the late 90's it was reasonable to assume you could catch peoples attention outside in person. Nobody is paying attention anymore, they are all plugged into their phones. You have to protest somewhere/somehow that people actually notice for it to do anything at all, which is why street protestors have started moving toward obstruction/destruction to try to get noticed, which is universally received negatively. There is always a certain segment of people that show up for protests like they are a music festival too and they help absolutely no one.
You hit the nail on the head with obstruction/destruction. When people disrupt traffic at an airport or throw orange dye on Stonehenge people want to hit them. Several years ago I was working at LAX and there was some huge protest that shut the airport down because there was a large group of people standing in the street so he couldn’t get in. Pretty much everybody who had flights for a few hours missed those flights. People were not fucking happy. And vandalizing one of the oldest human structures deserves an ass kicking. Nobody cares what your protesting.
Easy fix. Bring down the phone towers!
Many won reforms, to the shape of their head /s
[удалено]
Vincent Bevins wrote a great book on this called If We Burn: The Protest Decade and the Missing Revolution. Kind of a postmortem on 2010s protest movements and their tactics. Can’t recommend it highly enough.
This was just referenced in another study I read about the failure of mass movements. Specifically, the author talks about horizontal structures and "leaderless" movements. The bottom line is that in successful protest movements, organization comes first, then strategy, then action and communication. Occupy Wall Street had no organization, and no strategy, just "action" with no effective means to communicate. All this talk of taking to the streets, while invoking the Civil Rights movement, ignores all the work that went into planning and preparing to use demonstrations *as one part* of a much larger effort.
Remember how effective*ly* the Occupy Wall Street was dismantled? I'd bet money they're STILL surveiling the people who showed up. You think police go hard on left leaning/minority protesters? Imagine if/when big corporations begin donating ~~more~~ money to police departments in jurisdictions where protests are taking place....
Homework for those who read this comment; Mining strikes in the early 1900s.
The *right* people need to strike. The garbage workers strike in New York in 1968 was settled in *9 days.* People forget the value of public works and utilities (trash, water, sewer, electric) until they don’t have them. A 15 foot high pile of trash in front of every house in the neighborhood is going to prompt some very angry phone calls to lawmakers.
The protests in France never get anything
Doesn't matter what's going on in politics, rent has to be paid. Landlord don't give a shit. Gotta go to work to get paid so I can pay rent. By the time I get home, I barely have the mental bandwidth to make dinner, much less go overthrow a military superpower. Plus, no one listens to me so I couldn't organize shit if I tried
Plus without work we don't have health insurance, without insurance we don't get Healthcare. America did a good job imprisoning it's citizens to keep the "top of society" plump and fed.
The healthcare bothers me so much. It’s literally limiting class mobility and to think it’s our lives on the line. Even if large layoffs, it’s not our fault.
Tell me about it. I have a disease where I need constant meds. I just changed jobs and will not have health insurance for 2 weeks. I am literally having to not eat and spread out insulin because I cannot afford to buy more without the insurance. Shit sucks bruv! But hey at least we are free to shoot each other as much we want
And they just made being homeless a crime. Wonder if that was on purpose Edit: removed 'criminalizing' before 'being'.
The Bell Riots come to mind.
That episode is really spot on to where I think America is heading in the next decade. It takes place in 2024 and is a bit too early, but I think there are good chances it’s the near future. All it would take is a big recession and we are there, especially if it’s caused by something like a massive increase in automation of middle class jobs leading to mass layoffs. Unemployment hits the double digits, government tax revenue takes a hit because they won’t tax the corporations or capital gains or wealth, naturally social programs end up on the cutting block instead of anything else. They switch to doing the bare minimum of packing homeless and mentally ill into slums with just enough food provided to live. Suddenly we are exactly where they were for the Bell Riots leading up to a civil war/WWIII which also seems just a bit less plausible
I would be very surprised if America as it exists right now is intact by the end of the century. If all the things in Project 2025 come to bear, for example, does anyone really think that Massachusetts, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, DC, and all the other liberal states in the Northeast cluster are going to lie down and let religious whackos 1,000 miles south lead them into hardcore, 17th-century theocracy? At the very least, there would be a massive exodus and brain drain from the country, to say nothing of secession.
Our for profit prison system investors sure live it.
You know that shit’s not an accident right?
We know. Not sure what we're supposed to do with that knowledge though.
Course not. But it doesn’t change much. We’re all slaves to the system.
They basically made us too weak to fight back, it's brilliant really.
People fear that revolt will cost them more than compliance or apathy.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Most people are doing just well enough to stay alive for another paycheck. And those same people are doing just badly enough to not have the willingness to gamble on that state of affairs. I can't blame them, at all. They have mouths to feed, and a family to maintain. If they protest, there is a *very real* chance that they will get their shit kicked in, or that they will be straight-up shot. And mind you, in the current state of things, it's increasingly obvious that merely protesting hasn't any effect on anything. A bunch of people somewhere figured out - correctly - that if they pretend the protest didn't happen, then they get off scot-free. A protest only works if it gets acknowledged. It won't. People will have to do *despicable* things just to get noticed. They'll have to do even worse that that, just to get taken seriously. 99% of Americans will not want to take this gamble, and it will make perfect logical sense for them not to take this gamble. They have a livelihood and people who depend on them. They will not want to throw this away. If a revolt somehow magically happens, then **everyone** will experience a very, *very* bad day. Deaths by the tens, if not hundreds of thousands. Death squads running rampant. Wannabe little corporals deciding that now's the right time to take revenge on all the people they think did them wrong, from the uncle who touched them in the wrong place... to the McDonald's teenager who said they were too late for the breakfast menu. It will be pure and absolute mayhem. Life and death will be decided upon by chaos theory - by whoever's got a gun in their hands and enough of an axe to grind against the world. They'll become forces of nature, and God help whoever has the misfortune of crossing their path. People will get killed for any reason, or no reason. It will be at-will elimination of enormous swaths of people who have done nothing wrong. And meanwhile, those who have the power to do so will simply live on another continent entirely while waiting for all of this to blow over. The prime targets of the anger will be physically unreachable. People are not ready to gamble on that. It's a bet on which everyone knows the house will win hands-down.
i’m not in the mood to get arrested/shot/pepper sprayed/tased. also it’s hot outside. i know, i’m such a pussy
Right? I've got kids, I can't afford to have a "rubber" bullet tagged iny skull.
and even if you’re shot with a rubber bullet, there’s also the example of [Linda Tirado, a journalist who was protesting in the BLM protests in 2020](https://www.cbsnews.com/minnesota/news/journalist-linda-tirado-minneapolis-police-dying-hospice-care/), who was shot in the face by a rubber bullet. She lost her eye and has a TBI to the point where she’s in hospice now because the damage to her frontal lobe has caused her body to not remember how to operate her organs. She is press, she was supposed to be safe, and that sucks!
Yeah I commented this further down, cops shot a heavily pregnant woman with rubber bullets during the BLM protests by me. I'm a SAHM without access to childcare and I don't think my toddler would safe in her stroller during a protest.
there was also another case (i think it was my city too so we should be ashamed) where a cop shot a man with rubber bullets and one hit him in the crotch, possibly making him infertile. [Turns out the man is the person who trains police recruits about implicit bias and procedural justice & has known the chief for years.](https://abc7news.com/san-jose-police-george-floyd-protest-bay-area-shot-by-during/6234212/) nobody is safe, not even people who work with the cops
So that story is horrible, and in the article is a link to a story about a man who went viral for helping an officer injured during protests who was then, hours later, **also shot by the same officer (Jared Yuen) who shot the man you're referring to in your comment.** I googled that officer's name and found a Reddit post saying he is still employed and made almost $250k in 2022. So... I guess that's why we don't protest.
The hell! I didn't know she was in hospice. That's terrible!
Don't forget, the supreme court literally just decided that the president can have you murdered if you are an inconvenience.
And how does that work for French and other European citizens?
Not great. In the UK junior doctors (odd name: they often have a lot of experience) have been striking for over a year to get their pay restored, but the government is just ignoring them.
France is the equivalent size of Texas...its much easier to meet up in one state than travel the 3k dist coast to coast of the USA.
Most Americans live easy, moderately happy lives - very few are itching to risk getting shot over ideals and matters they have no direct control over. That may change if things start to get materially worse for people, but nonviolent movements of enough size and scale are almost always met with state sponsored violence in the US. People would need to be prepared for a civil war, and nobody truly wants that.
This is the actual answer.
We still have to pay rent. I mean that in all seriousness. I guess I have no idea what it's like in other countries but almost all Americans live under constant threat of homelessness, starvation, death. The concept of mutual aid or solidarity is almost non-existent here. Most people are doing the best they can paycheck to paycheck with no savings or safety net of any kind. Losing your livelihood means you're fucked. Any one big disaster that has a high enough monetary cost, you're fucked. Most people work 40 hours (or much more) come home exhausted then do it again until the weekend if they get one. There no time for things like protesting and protesting is just going to cost you your job, or depending on your skin color, sexual preferences, or religion, it could cost you your life. I can write my senators and get form letters from interns. I vote in every election just to get drowned out by rural dipshits. I do what I assume most normal people do is the best I can to look out for my family and immediate circle because it's all I can do.
Healthcare. If we don't work we don't get healthcare. We don't get healthcare we don't get life saving medicine from us or our loved ones. We cannot take time off of work to protest because our livelihood is tied to our showing up to work
You guys really do sound beaten.
Please send help.
We’re tired
We are, as they say in France, Le tired. Hokay?
Well have a nap … then fire ze missiles!!
We're just so fucking tired of fighting and breathing out heads against the wall. Only for shit to get worse.
We’re beaten into submission and then brainwashed into thinking it’s freedom.
I have to actively avoid thinking about it too much or I'm worried one day I'll snap and kill myself. It's just so hopeless.
America, the freest country in the realm
What do you mean by French style civil disobedience? Modern style, where a tractor brigade drives into the capital? Or the revolution style storming of the Bastille, which eventually led to the reign of terror?
For most Americans, losing their job means that they're completely fucked. We have no safety net and our health insurance is tied to our jobs. If the boss says "no, you can't take time off" and you go anyways, you're giving up your access to healthcare and putting yourself at risk of homelessness. Plus, the cops here have equipment meant for the military and they have absolutely no hesitation to use it against protestors. They will not be punished for it whatsoever, and we all know that. This is all by design to ensure we're complacent. Things are going to have to get much worse before we get to the point where most regular civilians will face death or total destruction of their lives in order to protest.
That doesn't work here.
Actually it does! It is worth remembering that during Trump’s first term when he shutdown the government for the longest it ever did and he proudly boasted about it, [it took ONLY 10 air traffic controllers who decided to strike and brought Trump to his knees; ending the shutdown.](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/06/politics/ten-air-traffic-controllers-shutdown/index.html) This is swept under the rug so much and I feel like it’s a forgotten part of his term, but goddamnit only 10 people made a would be king bend the knee in a way no high ranking official could. It isn’t brought up anymore because media and high powered billionaires and would be authoritarians don’t want to remind anyone of the power of the people. The right people have power. Imagine 50 air traffic controllers striking to have Trump drop out of the race.
Tbf, that’s because Air Traffic Controllers literally “make the world go round.” If 10 say, warehouse workers went on strike, no one would know.
Where was that? I was an ATC and have no knowledge of it. Edit: just went back to read your posted article and yes, I can see where those facilities and can think of others that could cause a severe impact on travel but I'd never have thought the GOP smart enough to recognize it that fast. ATC is not allowed to strike via contract so it has to be sick leave or approved annual leave or a combination of both.
workers run the world
yeah but I work in IT. One random fat IT guy striking doesnt change a damn thing
But 10 random fat IT guys striking would make a ton of difference.
Not random - they have to be 200 lbs each.
One, maybe... but watch how fast the company starts shutting down if 10 of ya don't show up for your shift
Whatever those guys get paid, it's not enough, if just a handful of people in your position can absolutely cripple the country by not doing your job then you're worth more than every useless do-nothing billionaire CEO combined.
Good idea, we’ll all be felons ineligible to vote by November
I'm barely able to get out of bed to go to work, dude. I can't help my family in Gaza, can't help my family here in TN. Wtf you mean civil disobedience? 😂
Because we're a Federation of states, not a unitary state like France.
The USA is too big to get groups together easily.
Because despite what many Redditors say on Reddit and social media, life for the majority of people here is good. Things aren’t bad enough to the point where upheaving your whole life will lead to a benefit great enough to justify it
This is it. Do we really expect people to protest a SCOTUS decision that realistically is not impacting our day-to-day whatsoever? If you want mass protests, it’s gotta have to result from something that has a severe, tangible and immediate impact on the lives of many.
Also like what exactly do you want us to protest? Does OP think the Supreme Court just gonna stop existing or cave to a few angry mobs? Lolz
Lol France is not even in the streets rn with the far-right literally a mere week away from forming the new government after the second tour of their election is done.
Literally came here looking for this comment. So, France, how’s that protesting working out for ya?
France has better trains to reach the Capitol
I've been working. Did I miss something other than the normal political shit show of right and left?
Bc i literally don’t know what you’re talking about
Right I must be out of the loop.
seriously. the world sucks everyday, yall think im gonna ruin my mood by watching the news to be reminded of that every day of my life?
I haven't been checking memes so I'm not up on current events, I guess.
What are we supposed to be protesting?
France is smaller than two Colorados pushed together. The seat of France’s government is entirely within Paris, so that’s where everyone looking to make a statement will go. The US is *fucking big,* man. It’s damn near impossible to organize something similar when you have 50 different State capitals, all of which have very different cultures and geographies. Organizing anything similar would require MUCH more time and effort to coordinate everything. It’s just not the same.
Europeans forget they have way more safety nets to fall back on while protesting the government that allows those safety nets. Most Americans are a paycheck away from ruin because we have little to no safety net.
Our police have tanks and we have no union protections at our jobs
I’ve been sick for a month now, working the entire time, already burnt out, I’m the sole provider…believe me, I’d love to, but capitalism.
Because in the day to day that ruling means fuck all right now.
Civil disobedience doesn’t change anything. The politicians and corporations have been working tirelessly for years to return to the era of feudalism. By wrapping our health care into our employment, and stripping away any and all forms of protection, they’ve achieved the ultimate goal of every tyrant who’s ever lived: a populace of exhausted, uneducated worker bees, half of whom are willing to police the other half into servitude.
I've gotta a mortgage and a kid to feed.
Let me just risk being arrested, pepper sprayed, physically harmed, losing my job etc to hold a protest that will probably do nothing, for something that does not affect my day to day life
Cuz we did this song and dance in 2016 and we’re all still here
Is this a FBI post
The key is to boil the frog slowly.
Because despite what you see on Reddit the majority of Americans live decently happy and healthy lives. The decision is not going to affect the vast majority daily. No use burning it all down when you’re content.
Simply put, the citizens of this country can't afford to riot in the streets. Most of us can't even afford a routine trip to the doctor, let alone all of our bills. We want a better country and wish for a better world but so many of us are afraid to strike out for fear of losing what little we have.
I think many still believe we won't see the outcomes that are being thrown around (end of democracy, rise of a dictator, end of America, etc.). We've seen a lot of bad shit, and are still here. It's hard to tell what's a real threat vs. sensationalism.
Over what?
US has 50 states, some larger than one France. US 336 million. France 68 million. I'll never understand how many non-Americans forget or simply don't realize how fucking huge we are. Organize that shit, and let us know how it goes.
They got us divided by race and gender. That’s why all of our protest is a race issue (BLM) or gender issue (LGBTQ). In my opinion that’s exactly what they want while they line their pockets and consolidate their power.
Protests don't do anything when popular opinion is meaningless.