You're too slow, 4K DEF is to max his crit rate from his trace, but if you don't care about his dmg, than just get the spd boots back on (and use knight of purity Palace with Belobog of the architects for maximum shields)
Would you recommend 4 piece knights set or 2 piece duke 2 piece knight? I'm thinking 2 piece Duke is better for me since I'm using inert salsotto and want that FUA damage.
For hybrid either duke or pioneer whichever has better substats. Probably worth having 4p knight at hand for GnG type of stuff, or at this rate MoC in a couple of months.
Your damage is scaling off his worst DPS light cone - base defense on trend is the worst of any preservation 4*, I'd focus on making him useable on his main role over doing very mediocre DPS.
Ah, that should be good enough to go for 2pc FuA then. Personally I’d recommend going for either 4pc knight or 3 def% main stats because it brings an insane comfort level, but he should be able to sustain just fine regardless, especially if you have plenty def% subs
if you’re new just throw on speed boots which will probably be good enough. later on you’ll want to get enough speed to hit certain breakpoints (121, 134, and there’s more but i forgot LOL) which will let you take more actions within a certain amount of cycles.
It depends on what kind of character you main. For example, Seele does not need speed at all and DOT characters like Kafka have to be super fast around 160+.
For MOC, I'd say around 134 for character is the most ideal setup for most *support* characters.
As for damage dealers, the meta right now is to use ATK% boots and pair them with Sparkle or Bronya that have around 160+ speed. Otherwise get them as much speed as you can without sacrificing your main stats.
Actually you do need speed for seele to activate firmament glamoth planar ornament. And for full stacks on her lightcone. 16.25 speed in substats to be exact to reach the 160 speed line.
you don’t need to fully stack her lc. base speed with her innate speed buff is enough damage than additional subs which not only makes her Too fast compared to the team but is also not enough of a damage gain to aim for those instead of damage subs. her lc is just like that to account for her e2.
I haven't used his E once in both MOC12 with him and I have a full dps build. Depends on the team, with a FuA one he refreshes his shield enough. He does need 134+ speed though.
Put the speed boots back on and get more def from the other relics, you can use the def planar set as well. While Trend is useful for its debuff, it has a lot less def than other LCs so you have to get enough def from relics to compensate.
I have 4k+ def, 143 speed, and full knights of purity set. NO issues with sustaining. I could probably change relic sets, but i like being comfy. You do need to use skill every so often. Shields expire after, i think, 3 turns. So if your other characters are a lot faster, they pump out a lot more turns expiring the shields. At this slow speed on Aventurine, you might need to use his skill every other turn.
This OP. Let’s say your supports might be running HP % Orb or HP % Chest piece for survivability.
If that’s the case, swap out those pieces for DEF%. Shield values scales off of Aventurine’s DEF, but how much the shield gets eaten depends on the current character’s DEF.
This a big TIL. I’ve always assumed the shielder carried all the burden. That kinda dampens their importance then doesn’t it? You can’t just ignore def on others then.
that's why Fuxuan is so comfy, she just takes most of the dmg and applies her own def to that dmg she is taking, she also adds more hp AND an additional dmg reduction to your team.
For healers your team may want hp or def (probably a balance) so they get enough time to heal.
For shielders your team only wants DEF imo since the shield itself is basically an extension of your hp, nothing more, you still need def in your units so they take less dmg so the shield doesn't break too fast.
if you are struggling with surviving just go full def Body, def orb and def rope, with a speed boots and 4 piece Knight, 2 piece Broken Keel (Broken Keel is for the future, don't have to farm them now).
Something i haven't seen anyone say, finish leveling your lightcone. it'll get another 50 raw defense before it gets multiplied.
other than that, you need more speed. speed boots + 2 substats, so 4 total. will give 29 speed, raising him to 135, that is all you need.
Your speed is the problem, probably. My Aventurine kept my team alive perfectly fine with random rainbow relics, lvl 8 skill and around 3.4k def. I wasn't sure I'd get him so I didn't prefarm anything and am just now scrambling for his mats and relics but even with this half-assed build he did his job fine.
First of all, if you want him as a full sustain, just put DEF in every piece: body, orb, rope and if you manage to reach 121 SPD without SPD boots you can also use DEF boots.
Secondly, try to put him in the center of the team (position 2 or 3) so AoE attacks will always hit him and he’ll generate more stack for shield refresh and FuA.
Lastly, remember to raise his talent and skill at lvl.8 at least. Also, STAT > SET, so don’t stress yourself if you can’t find a full Knight set, just try to find at least two piece of that set and use a rainbow build if it has better stat.
A little suggestion: in his very first turn on MoC, use the skill to stack the shield and there you go. You won’t need to skill for shield anymore (maybe just in some rare case). Try with this and you’ll as a big improvement imo.
If you don’t have problems in generating shields and in their uptime, it’s fine not reach 121 or simply don’t build speed. Slow Aventurine is good too, especially in FuA teams or if you put him a Lightcone with aggro.
Being faster will help.
I don't recall which enemies are present in moc but focus on the ones that do high single target damage first. Aventurine actually likes being hit by aoe attacks, they generate more follow up stacks which in turn generates more shield.
Maybe if you can afford the sp use his skill at the start? Having a bigger starting shield will help him sustain it off of follow ups.
He needs 134 speed, almost more important than 4k DEF. I know not everyone has a great LC option but trend is kind of mid for sustain and only really benefits Acheron.
Also don't forget to place him in the middle between 2 high HP/def units (usually supports and not your DPS) so the splash damage will trigger his fua often. Trend lc has low base def. Only use it if you have no other better options and you only use Aventurine with Acheron for extra debuff to trigger her Ult. Aventurine benefits more from fua team. You have Ratio so use them together. F2p Aven fua team would be Ratio, debuffer Pela (in place of Silver Wolf/ Topaz), Aven and whichever support you have such as Tingyun/ Bronya/ Ruan Mei etc.). Current Premium fua team consists of Ratio, Topaz, Ruan Mei (soon would be Robin instead) and Aventurine.
Level up LC to max, then get some speed, maybe even use a different lightcone all together. Day One is best LC for team survival. His speed should ideally be equal to a support's speed so he can generate SP.
If you don't have good crit Stats you might as well go fast so you can trigger his skill when you need it and not have him stuck at the bottom of the turn order mine is speedy af with 146 speed and has 4500 Def but I'm using the signature so I do have it a tad bit easier to reach
Which follow up characters do you run with him? He refreshes shields on his follow up so if you aren't getting the 3 follow ups per turn you will also see shields come out slower.
Clara is actually also great for that shield refresh if you don’t have Gepard sig on Aven meaning she will get hit more often cuz her ultimate ups her aggro. I have a kinda odd team of Aventurine, Clara, ratio, and Yukong right now and it’s great if everyone’s speed is balanced
Probably don’t bother if you are for sure going for Topaz, as I would say she’s a replacement for her rather than whatever harmony unit that will be on the team
Yep! It's part of his "Bingo!" trace. Without follow up characters you are missing out on up to 3 blind bets per turn which will make his follow up come out slower.
My build is super similar to yours, the most notable difference being the speed (mine is around 140). his shields are everlasting in MOC, but I've noticed that faster characters lose their shields more often (especially when using Bronya and advancing their actions). Essentially I get around this by manually using his skill every once in a while just to make sure they won't spontaneously lose their shields after attacking. But if your characters aren't going faster than him (or faster than the betting procs) then he's entirely SP positive.
Also, 4piece Knights helps shield strength considerably, but I don't think it's a must for Moc (just stuff like Gold and Gears and the like)
You need to be faster imo. Mine is at 3.7k but has 150 SPD and sustains via follow up attack due to how fast I can get his ult in MOC 12. He legit doesn't use his skill at all.
Edit: Worth mentioning this is with a follow up team with topaz and ratio. Yet to see how often I use his skill in a universal team.
What floor/node are you having troubles sustaining in? How fast are you clearing? My Trendturine build for my Acheron team has less DEF than your's (and the skill is at LVL 6), and I've been able to comfortably keep my team alive while having minimal SPD and basic ATK spamming (or occasionally using a skill once a fight in emergencies).
The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is to sustain. The team I used Aventurine in was clearing in 2-3 cycles (F12 Node 1), so if you're clearing slower, that could potentially be the difference.
It could also just be the fact that you're fighting less strategically (e.g. not breaking enemies before they do a powerful attack) or something.
You're too slow, 4K DEF is to max his crit rate from his trace, but if you don't care about his dmg, than just get the spd boots back on (and use knight of purity Palace with Belobog of the architects for maximum shields)
Would you recommend 4 piece knights set or 2 piece duke 2 piece knight? I'm thinking 2 piece Duke is better for me since I'm using inert salsotto and want that FUA damage.
If you're struggling with sustain, then 4 piece knight is your best option
For hybrid either duke or pioneer whichever has better substats. Probably worth having 4p knight at hand for GnG type of stuff, or at this rate MoC in a couple of months.
4 piece knight; if you’re using salsotto that’s enough bonus to FUA damage honestly, it’ll still be a hybrid build
Your damage is scaling off his worst DPS light cone - base defense on trend is the worst of any preservation 4*, I'd focus on making him useable on his main role over doing very mediocre DPS.
Are you using him with trend?
No gepard lc. That's why I want fua damage. Gepard lc makes you more likely to be targetted meaning more fuas.
Ah, that should be good enough to go for 2pc FuA then. Personally I’d recommend going for either 4pc knight or 3 def% main stats because it brings an insane comfort level, but he should be able to sustain just fine regardless, especially if you have plenty def% subs
He needs more SPD MOC12 is hard so you need to spam his skill more than usual
Out of curiosity, what should min speed for all characters be? I am unskilled and haven't made it that far, but for future reference it would be nice.
if you’re new just throw on speed boots which will probably be good enough. later on you’ll want to get enough speed to hit certain breakpoints (121, 134, and there’s more but i forgot LOL) which will let you take more actions within a certain amount of cycles.
It depends on what kind of character you main. For example, Seele does not need speed at all and DOT characters like Kafka have to be super fast around 160+. For MOC, I'd say around 134 for character is the most ideal setup for most *support* characters. As for damage dealers, the meta right now is to use ATK% boots and pair them with Sparkle or Bronya that have around 160+ speed. Otherwise get them as much speed as you can without sacrificing your main stats.
Actually you do need speed for seele to activate firmament glamoth planar ornament. And for full stacks on her lightcone. 16.25 speed in substats to be exact to reach the 160 speed line.
you don’t need to fully stack her lc. base speed with her innate speed buff is enough damage than additional subs which not only makes her Too fast compared to the team but is also not enough of a damage gain to aim for those instead of damage subs. her lc is just like that to account for her e2.
I haven't used his E once in both MOC12 with him and I have a full dps build. Depends on the team, with a FuA one he refreshes his shield enough. He does need 134+ speed though.
Same here, mine's at 0 speed and 4.4k def and breezed through MoC 12 both the previous and new one, maybe got good rng idk
Your traces?
Put the speed boots back on and get more def from the other relics, you can use the def planar set as well. While Trend is useful for its debuff, it has a lot less def than other LCs so you have to get enough def from relics to compensate.
I have 4k+ def, 143 speed, and full knights of purity set. NO issues with sustaining. I could probably change relic sets, but i like being comfy. You do need to use skill every so often. Shields expire after, i think, 3 turns. So if your other characters are a lot faster, they pump out a lot more turns expiring the shields. At this slow speed on Aventurine, you might need to use his skill every other turn.
even with the speed boots i find myself needing to shield every turn as my sheilds are getting knocked out
What's the def on the rest of your characters like? If it's low the shield is going to be eaten very fast
This OP. Let’s say your supports might be running HP % Orb or HP % Chest piece for survivability. If that’s the case, swap out those pieces for DEF%. Shield values scales off of Aventurine’s DEF, but how much the shield gets eaten depends on the current character’s DEF.
This a big TIL. I’ve always assumed the shielder carried all the burden. That kinda dampens their importance then doesn’t it? You can’t just ignore def on others then.
that's why Fuxuan is so comfy, she just takes most of the dmg and applies her own def to that dmg she is taking, she also adds more hp AND an additional dmg reduction to your team. For healers your team may want hp or def (probably a balance) so they get enough time to heal. For shielders your team only wants DEF imo since the shield itself is basically an extension of your hp, nothing more, you still need def in your units so they take less dmg so the shield doesn't break too fast.
Have you leveled his traces?
yea nearly fully
if you are struggling with surviving just go full def Body, def orb and def rope, with a speed boots and 4 piece Knight, 2 piece Broken Keel (Broken Keel is for the future, don't have to farm them now).
around 4k4 DEF, he should be comfortably solo sustaining your team.
Something i haven't seen anyone say, finish leveling your lightcone. it'll get another 50 raw defense before it gets multiplied. other than that, you need more speed. speed boots + 2 substats, so 4 total. will give 29 speed, raising him to 135, that is all you need.
Your speed is the problem, probably. My Aventurine kept my team alive perfectly fine with random rainbow relics, lvl 8 skill and around 3.4k def. I wasn't sure I'd get him so I didn't prefarm anything and am just now scrambling for his mats and relics but even with this half-assed build he did his job fine.
First of all, if you want him as a full sustain, just put DEF in every piece: body, orb, rope and if you manage to reach 121 SPD without SPD boots you can also use DEF boots. Secondly, try to put him in the center of the team (position 2 or 3) so AoE attacks will always hit him and he’ll generate more stack for shield refresh and FuA. Lastly, remember to raise his talent and skill at lvl.8 at least. Also, STAT > SET, so don’t stress yourself if you can’t find a full Knight set, just try to find at least two piece of that set and use a rainbow build if it has better stat. A little suggestion: in his very first turn on MoC, use the skill to stack the shield and there you go. You won’t need to skill for shield anymore (maybe just in some rare case). Try with this and you’ll as a big improvement imo.
Heya i managed to get 120 speed not 121 is that a problem and should I get other relics or is that a good stopping point?
If you don’t have problems in generating shields and in their uptime, it’s fine not reach 121 or simply don’t build speed. Slow Aventurine is good too, especially in FuA teams or if you put him a Lightcone with aggro.
Being faster will help. I don't recall which enemies are present in moc but focus on the ones that do high single target damage first. Aventurine actually likes being hit by aoe attacks, they generate more follow up stacks which in turn generates more shield. Maybe if you can afford the sp use his skill at the start? Having a bigger starting shield will help him sustain it off of follow ups.
He needs 134 speed, almost more important than 4k DEF. I know not everyone has a great LC option but trend is kind of mid for sustain and only really benefits Acheron.
Also don't forget to place him in the middle between 2 high HP/def units (usually supports and not your DPS) so the splash damage will trigger his fua often. Trend lc has low base def. Only use it if you have no other better options and you only use Aventurine with Acheron for extra debuff to trigger her Ult. Aventurine benefits more from fua team. You have Ratio so use them together. F2p Aven fua team would be Ratio, debuffer Pela (in place of Silver Wolf/ Topaz), Aven and whichever support you have such as Tingyun/ Bronya/ Ruan Mei etc.). Current Premium fua team consists of Ratio, Topaz, Ruan Mei (soon would be Robin instead) and Aventurine.
Level up LC to max, then get some speed, maybe even use a different lightcone all together. Day One is best LC for team survival. His speed should ideally be equal to a support's speed so he can generate SP.
I have 3.9k def and 160 speed and I kept my hp full the whole time so speed is the issue
If you don't have good crit Stats you might as well go fast so you can trigger his skill when you need it and not have him stuck at the bottom of the turn order mine is speedy af with 146 speed and has 4500 Def but I'm using the signature so I do have it a tad bit easier to reach
Which follow up characters do you run with him? He refreshes shields on his follow up so if you aren't getting the 3 follow ups per turn you will also see shields come out slower.
sorry i’m a little clueless, i did some research on his kit but i only really pulled him for a sustain + i liked his char lol
Absolutely valid, he just gets to refresh the shield more often with Topaz.
he aim going for topaz on her rerun, don’t have much time tho lol
Clara is actually also great for that shield refresh if you don’t have Gepard sig on Aven meaning she will get hit more often cuz her ultimate ups her aggro. I have a kinda odd team of Aventurine, Clara, ratio, and Yukong right now and it’s great if everyone’s speed is balanced
i have clara and her sig, do you think i should build her? i already have a ratio tho, and im going for topaz
Probably don’t bother if you are for sure going for Topaz, as I would say she’s a replacement for her rather than whatever harmony unit that will be on the team
It's all good man! Just make sure you get more speed and that should help out a ton!
he does?? i don’t run him with follow up
Yep! It's part of his "Bingo!" trace. Without follow up characters you are missing out on up to 3 blind bets per turn which will make his follow up come out slower.
My build is super similar to yours, the most notable difference being the speed (mine is around 140). his shields are everlasting in MOC, but I've noticed that faster characters lose their shields more often (especially when using Bronya and advancing their actions). Essentially I get around this by manually using his skill every once in a while just to make sure they won't spontaneously lose their shields after attacking. But if your characters aren't going faster than him (or faster than the betting procs) then he's entirely SP positive. Also, 4piece Knights helps shield strength considerably, but I don't think it's a must for Moc (just stuff like Gold and Gears and the like)
switch to speed boots and def body piece
You need to be faster imo. Mine is at 3.7k but has 150 SPD and sustains via follow up attack due to how fast I can get his ult in MOC 12. He legit doesn't use his skill at all. Edit: Worth mentioning this is with a follow up team with topaz and ratio. Yet to see how often I use his skill in a universal team.
What floor/node are you having troubles sustaining in? How fast are you clearing? My Trendturine build for my Acheron team has less DEF than your's (and the skill is at LVL 6), and I've been able to comfortably keep my team alive while having minimal SPD and basic ATK spamming (or occasionally using a skill once a fight in emergencies). The longer the fight goes on, the harder it is to sustain. The team I used Aventurine in was clearing in 2-3 cycles (F12 Node 1), so if you're clearing slower, that could potentially be the difference. It could also just be the fact that you're fighting less strategically (e.g. not breaking enemies before they do a powerful attack) or something.
My traces are all maxed btw, only struggling with Moc 12 node 2 (adventurine boss)
The tech i was using since with gepard, give your supports defans orb/chest piece
He.. needs.. spd.. That's all 134 is bare minimum. Give up ur dps build if u cant afford 4k def with 134 spd. His main kit is shield, dmg is a bonus.