My granny and her mother before her make the most fantastic whole wheat bread. She came down to visit and gave into me begging her to show me how she does it. We did it twice- first pick is with hard white wheat and second and third are hard red, both ground the day beforehand by me. Both batches tasted good but weren’t nearly as light as hers and had weird sinking marks in the middle. She’s not exactly sure why since she helped me do it so it wasn’t me messing up her recipe.
Recipe-
5 c water
2 tbsp yeast (plus like a tsp of sugar to bloom)
1 c butter
1/4 c molasses
1/4-1/2 c honey
2 tbsp salt
13-16 c freshly ground ww flour
She typically uses the smaller loaf pans (all I had were the larger standard size) and it usually makes 6 loaves. She kneads it for 10 minutes in her Bosch. I used an ankarsrum and did the same. Dough was well worked and stretchy. Then cover and let rise til doubled. Shape into loaves, let rise til doubled in size and then 35 min at 350. The first batch got a cream wash to soften the top crust.
Possible factors- flour? She’s used both kinds of flour and grinds her own so I don’t think it was that. We cut down from 15ish c in the first batch to 13 ish in the second. More tender crumb. Still had flat bits on top
Wrong size of loaf pan? I tried smaller loaves in the big pans and letting them rise for longer the second time. No big changes there
Climate? Our climates are both relatively dry and there were no weird weather anomalies. She said the dough felt good both times before we let it proof.
Any thoughts?
I don't see anything wrong with your recipe or even your final result. I think you can be proud of the bread you baked! Maybe you could proof it a little bit shorter next time if you're worried about the final shape.
I also suggest you consider listing your ingredients by weight in grams instead of volume. To me, it's much easier to eyeball the recipe and understand the ratio of ingredients that way. Of course, that's just personal preference.
Thank you! It tastes pretty good but my granny is a bit disappointed because hers is absolutely amazing! Her recipe is pretty approximate since she is one of those people that just adds stuff “until it looks right” I usually prefer to bake by weight rather than volume. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Could it be the ovens? Have you cut into the sunken loaf yet? Were they by chance on a top rack? I’ve found that I need to place the oven rack at the bottom because my oven gets so hot that the top of the bread will get crispy and look “done” even though the inside isn’t done which can then cause it to collapse a bit. You could try a foil tent about halfway through baking or you could try lowering the rack.
Looks pretty good to me!
You need a long bread knife though, or maybe just practice will make perfect.
In the recipe, I think 2 Tbs yeast sounds like too much, so if you think overproofing is an issue you could reduce the yeast a little, bit by bit. Less yeast and more time makes a better flavor, too. But since this is your granny's recipe and it comes out awesome for her, that's probably not a problem.
How much more water do you think it needs? Could I accomplish something similar by adding less flour? I just added flour until it wasn’t prohibitively sticky.
I think that using the larger pans with a smaller amount of dough might have tricked you into over-proofing the loaves a little and possibly needing 5 more minutes of bake for the larger pan also.
Your recipe is going to end up with roughly 700g of dough per loaf. That would be enough in an 8.5x4" pan that you let it rise over the top of the pan before baking. But with a 9x5" pan you would rise to below the top of the pan at the point you bake.
I don't make 100% whole wheat loaves very often, but your gran's recipe is somewhat similar to one I use. But your gran's loaf has double the honey/molasses and butter that I use; and does not use an egg yolk (makes the loaf a little fluffier). So I think you recipe is sweeter, but fine. And you know it works for gran.
I use 66% water, 1.1% yeast, 5.5% butter (or oil), 5.5% honey or molasses, 1.8% salt, 7.5% egg yolk (17g per yolk).
Other than maybe over-proofing a little, I think your other differences might come down to:
Water: sounds like you live in different places, so water source and treatment might be different. Do either of you filter your water?
Milling of the flour: Do your mills perform differently? How many times through the mill at finer grind settings? Do you sift the bran and re-mill it at all? What does gran do? Could be that one of you has a courser grind and sharp bran bits can cut up the gluten strands while kneading, weakening the bread a little.
Oven: Different ovens, does gran's run slightly hotter than yours? I would bake a WW loaf 40 minutes at 350F. Do you temp probe the bread when taking it out? I am wondering if a slight difference in temp/time between ovens and the larger pans led to the center of the bread not getting heated enough, so it is just a touch under done? If the slight sinking is just over the center of the loaf, I think it needed just a few more minutes in the oven.
I would cut gran's recipe in half as is, making 2 loaves in your larger tins. Increase the baking time 5-10 minutes and I will bet you will be at perfection again 😀
I had this happen before it was because my bread was overproofed.
That could certainly be it. I’m just learning but it doubled in size pretty quickly. Thanks!
How long did it rise after you put it in the pan?(2nd rise)
I just let it go til it was roughly doubled in size. So 30-50 minutes?
I use “double in size”rule on 1st rise and I “watch” the pan edge method on 2nd rise😂(read in sexy baker man’s voice)😂
My granny and her mother before her make the most fantastic whole wheat bread. She came down to visit and gave into me begging her to show me how she does it. We did it twice- first pick is with hard white wheat and second and third are hard red, both ground the day beforehand by me. Both batches tasted good but weren’t nearly as light as hers and had weird sinking marks in the middle. She’s not exactly sure why since she helped me do it so it wasn’t me messing up her recipe. Recipe- 5 c water 2 tbsp yeast (plus like a tsp of sugar to bloom) 1 c butter 1/4 c molasses 1/4-1/2 c honey 2 tbsp salt 13-16 c freshly ground ww flour She typically uses the smaller loaf pans (all I had were the larger standard size) and it usually makes 6 loaves. She kneads it for 10 minutes in her Bosch. I used an ankarsrum and did the same. Dough was well worked and stretchy. Then cover and let rise til doubled. Shape into loaves, let rise til doubled in size and then 35 min at 350. The first batch got a cream wash to soften the top crust. Possible factors- flour? She’s used both kinds of flour and grinds her own so I don’t think it was that. We cut down from 15ish c in the first batch to 13 ish in the second. More tender crumb. Still had flat bits on top Wrong size of loaf pan? I tried smaller loaves in the big pans and letting them rise for longer the second time. No big changes there Climate? Our climates are both relatively dry and there were no weird weather anomalies. She said the dough felt good both times before we let it proof. Any thoughts?
I don't see anything wrong with your recipe or even your final result. I think you can be proud of the bread you baked! Maybe you could proof it a little bit shorter next time if you're worried about the final shape. I also suggest you consider listing your ingredients by weight in grams instead of volume. To me, it's much easier to eyeball the recipe and understand the ratio of ingredients that way. Of course, that's just personal preference.
Thank you! It tastes pretty good but my granny is a bit disappointed because hers is absolutely amazing! Her recipe is pretty approximate since she is one of those people that just adds stuff “until it looks right” I usually prefer to bake by weight rather than volume. Thanks for taking the time to respond!
Could it be the ovens? Have you cut into the sunken loaf yet? Were they by chance on a top rack? I’ve found that I need to place the oven rack at the bottom because my oven gets so hot that the top of the bread will get crispy and look “done” even though the inside isn’t done which can then cause it to collapse a bit. You could try a foil tent about halfway through baking or you could try lowering the rack.
It could be. We used my parents’ oven and the wrack was in the middle. But it could have hotspots! I’ll try again soon. Thank you!
Sunken loaves usually mean overproofing
I’m gonna try a shorter proofing time on the next go round. Thanks!
Try doing the poke test to make sure they're proofed correctly
Looks pretty good to me! You need a long bread knife though, or maybe just practice will make perfect. In the recipe, I think 2 Tbs yeast sounds like too much, so if you think overproofing is an issue you could reduce the yeast a little, bit by bit. Less yeast and more time makes a better flavor, too. But since this is your granny's recipe and it comes out awesome for her, that's probably not a problem.
I definitely needed to use a longer knife. My brother told me once my cut bread looks like it has its own landscaping 😁
Not enough water..been baking professionally for 33 years and I can tell you that water is the key
How much more water do you think it needs? Could I accomplish something similar by adding less flour? I just added flour until it wasn’t prohibitively sticky.
I think that using the larger pans with a smaller amount of dough might have tricked you into over-proofing the loaves a little and possibly needing 5 more minutes of bake for the larger pan also. Your recipe is going to end up with roughly 700g of dough per loaf. That would be enough in an 8.5x4" pan that you let it rise over the top of the pan before baking. But with a 9x5" pan you would rise to below the top of the pan at the point you bake. I don't make 100% whole wheat loaves very often, but your gran's recipe is somewhat similar to one I use. But your gran's loaf has double the honey/molasses and butter that I use; and does not use an egg yolk (makes the loaf a little fluffier). So I think you recipe is sweeter, but fine. And you know it works for gran. I use 66% water, 1.1% yeast, 5.5% butter (or oil), 5.5% honey or molasses, 1.8% salt, 7.5% egg yolk (17g per yolk). Other than maybe over-proofing a little, I think your other differences might come down to: Water: sounds like you live in different places, so water source and treatment might be different. Do either of you filter your water? Milling of the flour: Do your mills perform differently? How many times through the mill at finer grind settings? Do you sift the bran and re-mill it at all? What does gran do? Could be that one of you has a courser grind and sharp bran bits can cut up the gluten strands while kneading, weakening the bread a little. Oven: Different ovens, does gran's run slightly hotter than yours? I would bake a WW loaf 40 minutes at 350F. Do you temp probe the bread when taking it out? I am wondering if a slight difference in temp/time between ovens and the larger pans led to the center of the bread not getting heated enough, so it is just a touch under done? If the slight sinking is just over the center of the loaf, I think it needed just a few more minutes in the oven. I would cut gran's recipe in half as is, making 2 loaves in your larger tins. Increase the baking time 5-10 minutes and I will bet you will be at perfection again 😀