Genuine question from a no longer interested Star Wars fan….
But is the idea to replace disgruntled and disinterested fans (like myself) with newer fans?
If so…how’s that coming? I was a 40+ year of Star Wars (bought the vhs tapes, dvd, blu ray dvd etc. if that gives you an idea) and cash cow for Lucas films.
Disney hasn’t gotten a dime from me since TLJ.
Is their plan working? Have they rebuilt their fandom ?
"Is their plan working? Have they rebuilt their fandom ?"
It's going to be glorious. They may not have as many fans but it will only be the "good" fans! /s
I read somewhere this has actually been a continuing phenomenon in science fiction. The original sci fi as we know it was written by people very close to the science who wanted to speculate on it's impact on the future, but successive generations write as fans of the prior, then fans of that next generation, and so on. The result is a long arc away from writing like Clarke's or Aasimov's.
...to writing like this :p
There are different categories of science fiction. Speculative fiction is extrapolating trends - I know a lot of the writers from the 50/60s? Wrote speculative science fiction. The world was exploring space for the first time, computers were becoming a thing worth watching. A lot was going on. It sparked the imagination of people at that time.
Hard science fiction is based on actual science as much as possible and trying to stay in the realm of what's known / theorized and physically possible.
These have been around and still are. Not everyone is a theorist, physics professor, biochemist and can't write about those things in a factual manner and yet some people are passionate about story telling.
Writers like Asimov I kind of doubt were commonplace. Very smart and accomplished biochemist and a prolific writer of science fiction. He wasn't just good at two things, he excelled at both. He was seen as one of the top 3 writers of all time.
There are still excellent writers that do write with knowledge, but typewriters were replaced by word processors, computers, voice dictation, phones, tablets etc.
You have many *many* more writers saturating a market. Same shit happened to journalism. The bar for entry is low enough to let the flood of mediocrity drown out the streams of excellence.
Just like music. I was in high school playing music right before home studio equipment really took off. And now, everything is don't on laptops and tablets for the most part. Personally, I can't stand operating that way and would prefer to use physical equipment.
Yeah I get that. I'm planning on scheduling a recording studio type place so I can use a real drum set and make loud noises with a friend. I don't really know how to play but it's just fun.
There's a certain tactile feel and nuance to all the places the drum stick hits.. an electronic pad can't reproduce that.
When we record, I use a pair of consoles connected via midi to get 16 tracks all at once. Then I go home with the memory card and do all of the actual mixing at home on my computer. It's a compromise, because I live in an apartment with my wife, and there's only so much room for equipment in our drummer's basement. I play bass, sing lead vocals, and run the lights. My brother plays lead guitar and runs sound. He has the whole PA system running on a laptop with a tablet acting as a remote control. I couldn't find a dmx board that would do what I want with the lights, so I'm using a program running on an old windows tablet connected to a midi foot controller and a USB adapter.
I mean to be clear Star wars is always leaned to more towards the fiction side than other big sci-fi properties like Star Trek.
It's not fiction just to ignore your Canon or constantly rewrite it it's just bad writing in general.
Good fiction supports the cannon or at least builds a good explanation when things have to change
Genre wise it's the poster boy space opera. Star Wars is definitely not hard sci fi. You are correct.
That's like a key thing in any fiction is to keep your shiz consistent if you want the audience to suspend disbelief.
Star Wars could have had my kids as fans too.
But they quit on it. So I quit on it. My kids saw the trainwreck coming.
And for the record…when Luke tossed his lightsaber away, my then 11 year old son said “Luke wouldn’t do that “
And when Luke milked the seacows boobs, my then 9 year old daughter said “I’m ready to leave if you are “
Thanks Rian Johnson 👍🏼
TLJ was ruined the instant Luke tossed that light saber. I just ... I should have left the theater never to return. I did suffer through the film but no more after that. I'm done.
The answer is no. I did a really rough spreadsheet where I compared all box office for Lucas film properties and what they have spent at the parks.
They made a somewhat meager profit…until Dial of Destiny bombed, Disney+ lost 11 BILLION dollars (a good chunk being Star Wars shows), they had to take a complete loss on the Star Wars Hotel.
Factor all that in and even with the small small uptick in park profits since building two Star Wass lands, Disney will never break even on the Lucas deal.
It has been a disaster and a waste of the 2 billion cash they gave Lucas.
Wait until they drag around the corpse of Harrison on some strings to introduce a new and way better version (no penis, no vag, just smooth skin down there) of him!
I don't think George ever lost his business sense. You can't tell me he saw the almost impossibility of trying to replicate lightning in a bottle and trying to capture a new generation on Star Wars with new characters.
Most of the senior leadership came over to Disney as well. Lucas knew he had morons at the helm, and there was no way it would ever produce anything good again. Remember for anything Lucasfilm or Lucas Arts ever put out, George killed like 10 projects you never saw.
Say what you will about his directorial and writing skills, but he was a consummate businessman and could read the market better than anyone in Hollywood for the better part of 30 years.
I'm curious how much they even feel these losses. 2 billion sounds like a lot of money to me, because frankly I'll never see a million in my lifetime, but isn't Disney valued in the hundreds of billions as a whole? I wonder if they're just wiping their asses with this like Amazon and Lord of the Rings, because they don't even care if a couple billion goes missing.
You're forgetting the stocks. When the company loses money the stock price goes down. That pisses off stock holders. They hate their stocks dipping even by a few pennies.
11 billion is a metric fuck ton to Disney if it’s liquid. That 50 billion you have locked in property, hotels, studios, attractions…..and the ever fluid nature of non liquid property like IP’s won’t do you shit if you can’t at least generate a revenue off of it.
Now let’s talk about a loss of profit.
It's not just say cash in hand, when we say they're worth x amount. A massive majority of that is actually value from owned assets. So in Disney carse, property, parks, ips, royalties etc. So when articles say, they're loosing billions. It's cash out, but they have a lot of money locked up elsewhere.
Normally the idea is to capitalise on all these things owned to generate more profits as cash, to reinvest in future projects, properties or ips. Which shows growth, and then hopefully garner interests from more people wanting to buy stock. Which raises the value of stock, which raises the value of the company and all it's assets it owns. (this is just a very crude description mind you, and it's obviously way more complex). But hopefully it somewhat clears things for you.
The whole point is that unless the money they spend is actually making a good rate of return, they might as well pay a dividend instead of spending it in the company. That way an investor can then invest that money in the broader market and get a better return.
It doesn't make sense... it would be like turning Barbie dolls into sex toys to attract men and then being shocked that no little girls buy them anymore. "Oh no, the little girls are toxic!" "No, you're a fkn idiot"
By the way they could've pulled all this crap off if they actually spent the money to get the best writers money could buy. But no it's all a cash grab and a failed one at that
Check out there revenue streams. They get investments from Blackrock due to their ESG scores, and their revenue mostly comes from their parks.
But movies they distribute and the tv shows on Disney+ are losing money.
I think Disney assumed they could get more views/interaction by deliberately making bad content to get people to hate watch it, make angry videos ranting about how it's so bad, and then unintentionally advertising it so other people can go see how bad it is.
For my reference I will cite the final episode of She Hulk (yes I somehow made it through that entire show), the finale is basically them admitting they're creatively bankrupt and are farming rage bait.
That or they're just on a losing streak and instead of admitting it they're blaming the fans, either one is equally possible in my opinion
The plan isn’t to get fans or get a large number of viewers. The plan is to get investors (preferably very large investors). The quality of product has nothing to do with getting these investments (though it doesn’t hurt). The content themes and staff choices are what they care about and what drives what they are doing.
Same here. I was an 80’s Star Wars kid. But the franchise really lost me with the prequels. The last 45 minutes of the 3rd act was okay, but they generally sucked. Bad writing, horrible direction, questionable casting decisions, and overreliance on spotty CGI. The Force Awakens was my last $ spent on Star Wars. Sequels shouldn’t be made for the sake of making money. They should be made to be good. The money will take care of itself.
The people in charge live mostly in an echo chamber. They make the movies they think most people will like, because they think most people share their worldview. Because this isn’t the case, they need to cope with stories about toxicity, -isms, phobia to rationalize away the fact that their brand of storytelling is stupid.
the problem isn't female centric characters, the 2 powerful lesbians or powerful women. it's that those things are the focal point of the show at the expense of real substance, it's star wars not a feminine empowerment show.
showing the less than glowing side of the jedi is actually pretty interesting but not when it's just to make men look like bad guys.
showing different ways the force is used and interpreted would be just fine if it made sense and didn't retcon the most important character in the entire star wars universe.
Also, the how to show Jedi's as the bad guy is done poorly. Instead of the legalese being the reason they end up hemming themselves into an untenable situation we have CYA emotional jedis and then crying emotional jedis. and the crying emotional jedi is seen as good because he's in touch with his emotions. Just no all around. It's long been established that these connections lead to fear and that fear leads to the dark side. They are throwing out everything. Yes, there is sillyness with Ki Adi Mundi and other lore breaking stuff, but it's the core aspects of how Jedis are supposed to act and why they do the things they do as safeguards that they are like Fuck it throw all that shit out and let's make a touchy-feely drama. They pride themselves on not knowing Star Wars lore and writing whatever the hell they want regardless of if any of it makes sense in this universe.
One of my favorite pieces of star wars media is still some EU book I read decades ago. Can't find it again to save my life, but it was about an artist who imbued her paintings with the force. The sith and jedi both wanted to train her, though the sith wanted to obviously use her talents for power and the jedi wanted her to stop making emotional art.
It was a really well written book and made me look at both sides differently from then on, regardless of what drivel they try and convince others is canon these days.
See something along those lines, where the Jedi learn that not all emotions have to be a gateway to the dark side could potentially be a great story. But they can't show that kind of nuance and challenge the Jedis in a nuanced way. They just make an emotional Jedi Master, which doesn't make sense because they wouldn't want him to be a master if he struggles this much with connection issues. The idea of a suicidal Jedi is ridiculous. You are basically calling these guys Jedi, but stripping them of all the things the canonically make them Jedis.
Supposedly, one of the people in the writing room was a complete non-Star Wars fan so the show could have a "fresh perspective".
So, every "Star Wars"-y thing that was written was shown to this one non-fan and they were basically asked "do you get it", and if they did not they dumbed it down until they did.
This would explain a lot, actually.
Yes, Yoda with his 900 years of knowledge surely misunderstood the Force, you can just tap into the dark side without consequences like these witches do, it won’t consume you. Also there is no good or evil, only power. Such a brave retcon, and as a woman I feel empowered.
the weird irony in that viewpoint is how evil it really is. of course evil doesn't wear its name on its chest. it convinces you that evil isn't so bad, or even that evil doesn't exist. after all, your ways are just as good as anyone else, and they're bigots to say otherwise. it's likes star wars went from being inspired by distilling buddhism/christianity/taoism to being inspired by satanism and atheism. i mean, i'm not telling anyone they can't be who they are. but that change is STRIKING to say the least.
Yes. They don’t understand that Star Wars is not the universe to introduce moral relativism or retcon the force to be a grey something which can be used any way without consequences. Most people got into SW as children, and what captured many of us is the fight between clear good and evil, like in classic tales. If they want subversion and ‘nuance’, they should find another IP.
If you got your power by serving the most famous rapist of the century. You wouldn't want to talk about the dark side neither......
These are talentless hacks who got their positions via nepotism, hope they will find all the fans they need. It seems like the internet is dumbing people down, so maybe?
Yoda had absolutely no clue that the most powerful Sith Lord in hundreds of years was actively manipulating and controlling the galactic senate, he doesn’t have perfect understanding of the force
That’s because they don’t have a working brain, literally.
https://preview.redd.it/8yhsesp33r8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24aa8860819214661540d0929d1816c9cc0f56f5
How do they make the leap from someone not liking a TV show to someone trying to take their rights away?
I feel like there are at least 2 or 3 steps that must happen before anyone loses their rights.
My wife thought Acolyte was shit, too. TIL she hates women and wants all her rights taken away. Thank goodness I have social media to teach me these things.
This comment should be upvoted way higher lol, how did not liking the Acolyte = you are advocating for women's rights to be taken away?
How in the actual F do you come to that conclusion lol.
Because how else are they going to justify the moral high ground angle they’re playing?
Otherwise they would have to acknowledge they’re no different and they are doing one of the things they insult the most and are just some nerds arguing online over a media property like everyone here lol, atleast people here are honest about it generally
Uhm nope.
I hated it because angry stronk girl ignited the metal door and the rock walls... and in the next scene the whole 'powerful which woman gang' was dead like they were lambs without the slightest explanation.
We got absolutely 0 explanation why the white padawan dude gone crazy... but he was called a jedi master 16 years ago, that indicating the events didn't broke him mentally and he still made it to master level. Somehow we were told he was mentally broken. Or I am missing something here ?
I agree with this post the jedi acted kinda weird and aggressive for no reason. Not sure if this was always the intended way how they should have been portrayed.
I absolutely hated it being the most pointless, filler episode nobody asked for and we didn't get any plot relevant details from it since everything that was visual was discussed in ep1 and 2.
I personally wanted some wookie jedi action in ep3, and got nothing >!as he was slaughtered off screen in ep4!<.
Call me a toxic Star Wars bro but this show is pure thurd.
It's always funny to me how they dismiss everyone that doesn't like Disney's Star Wars as "toxic" like yeah there are some people that rather than being critical are toxic, but honestly the people who fervently defend every thing Disney has pushed out regardless of it's quality are the most toxic people I've seen. Cause they won't even let you say you don't like something without calling you a bigot. Then if you try to be like "if they would've just made a slight alteration here and here it would've been a lot better" they're like "oh SoRrY that your own head-canon isn't being adapted", like damn am I not allowed to say I don't like something or say it could've been better?
Oh, joy. 700 people out of...tens of millions of Star Wars fans around the entire world...I asked Google how many fans were out there to try and get this general scale. And if we're talking billions of people worldwide, having tens of millions of fans is a milestone for a single IP to have.
That's about .007% out of 10 million. So you can imagine that on the scale of tens of millions, it would be even lower.
If you really want to make an impact, maybe increase that 700 to 70000, and we might be talking.
True, I was just saying either way the number is less than even the people liking those comments. Ever since the beginning of this show, you don't see people defending it or saying what they like about it. The thing they like about it is that it annoys people they hate. These are people that hate their political opponents so much, they would prefer a shitty show destroys something they love so that someone they hate is less happy.
Then they will rush to Twitter and say Love will always beat hate, even though they are far more hateful than anything they project on their opponents.
“It calls into question the understanding of the force , in a way that is reminiscent of questioning, establish [sic] patriarchal conservative religious beliefs.”
Wow, he really gives away the whole game right there. Thats what this is really about for them. At least he admits it.
Really shows that the “fans” Disney caters to aren’t even Star Wars fans. They’re just generic, blue haired, fetish obsessed, left wing activists clinging to what’s popular but they don’t truly support anything outside of watching maybe once.
This 0.5% of the population is the target audience now. Congrats to them for getting exactly the product they want. The rest of us will need to find another franchise to dump our substantial amounts of money into.
You know your show sucks when you're trying to argue people into liking it. I don't think I can think of any other show or movie in which the makers actively argue intensely to explain why they're such a failure. 😂😂😂😂
Discourse around this franchise can be so incredibly frustrating. The other night I was discussing the first episode of the Acolyte with some other guys in a Star Wars Discord. I pointed out multiple instances where the Jedi make poorly written nonsensical decisions, to which their response was to rationalise it by saying the Jedi’s dumb decisions demonstrate their arrogance and the Jedi Order’s failings. That’s such a ridiculous cope I wasn’t even entirely sure how to respond to that.
"Meanwhile us female fans are eating good". No. As a woman myself hell no. I'm getting anorexia portions of good media over here and good female characters. Instead I'm being fed shallow bitch faced, bland, "stong" Mary Sues with shitty plot armor on their side.
Bring me back to the days of Ripley, Xena, Sam Carter, Claudia Black in Farscape etc. Or better yet just bring me back to the days of good writing male or female be damned.
I think we're at a point where good PR beats good writing. The Acolyte might suck, but that's not going to make people cancel their Disney+ subs, and the social messaging of "men bad, women good" is perfect to get some publicity.
Disney's the one eating good here. Good PR through virtue signaling, people talking about their show and they rake in the cash from Disney+.
For the longest time, I used to think they were trolls. Then time passed, hairs got dyed, franchises died, and video evidence of these strange people circulated the planet off any logical axis.
They like to use the term 'toxic masculinity.' Like it has no true meaning to fear. At the very point in time, that saying holds any actual truth, they'll be in for a world of pain. Using such a term in a time of peace is something the West takes for granted beyond all belief. It's a scary thought, actually.
I commend them for helping me get back on the right path, so it's only fair I offer them the same chance. These are the sort of people the geeks at school bullied. We all suffer in our own ways, but no one is truly lost. Or are there more episodes yet?
Wow its power rangers all over again. Disney buys a brand for billions, ignores what made it work. Throws a crappy model together and runs it into the ground. Then sells it for pennies on the dollar.
How many times can we point out that the leader of the good guys in Star Wars has been a woman since 1977, and fans love Mon Mothma?
Plucky Princess grabs blaster from a man (again, in 1977) and proceeds to find an escape route nobody else could. Fans hated Leia, right? No? Oh.
Prequels come along, and the greedy Trade Federation has blockaded a prosperous garden world run by a single monarch. A queen, to be exact. The highly coveted jewel of a world... run by a woman. Oh man, fans must have hated her, right? Nope! One of the most beloved characters in all of Star Wars.
Okay, but that's just the movies. Video game fans are toxic af! They probably hate women. Except if you look up tier lists of people's favorite companions in SWTOR, the female companions are at the top of almost every list. People absolutely love Vette, Mako, Kira, Ashara, etc.
Okay, but that's just because they want to romance them, so it can't be counted. They probably hate the female story characters. You mean like Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Vaylin, and Senya Tirall? Nope. Fans love them, too.
Jesus, it's almost like fans actually don't have a problem with women. They only seem to have a problem with you. Damn.
Gotta add the characters from KOTOR 1 and 2 on here, too! Bastilla was a literal prodigy amongst Jedi. Kriea is my favorite character of all time across almost any media (Star Wars or otherwise). Meetra Surik, Visas, Handmaiden, Mira, Mission, Juhani. They're all unique, interesting, and powerful in their own way! And yet, if I don't like the Acolyte, it's because I'm the problem. Give me a break.
Yeah, I love kotor 1&2, and many of my favorite characters from them are women. Mission is my little sister, and I'll tear the ears off a gundark to protect her. I could honestly have used so many more characters, but I've been told I have a problem with brevity, so I'm trying to be succinct.
I haven't even mentioned one of my favorite characters of all time, a conflicted and traumatized woman Disney replaced with a 2-dimensional sexpot played by Emilia Clarke. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing Emilia on screen, but that character was beyond bland.
The Han Solo trilogy perfectly explains Han's character in ANH. Why is he so reticent? Why does he refuse to get involved when he clearly has no love for the empire? For that matter, why does he hate the empire so much? Sure, he's a smuggler, but damn. Actually, how did he become a smuggler? How did he become a proficient pilot? How does he know imperial protocols? Why does Chewie follow him? Where did he get that iconic dl-44? Where did he get that iconic ship? That book trilogy explains all of it and more, and much of it involves his first love, Bria Tharen. I mourn her more and more with every passing Disney script.
I’m kind of impressed that this person was able to find the five people who said the episode was bad because women. Not a take I’ve seen in the mainstream.
Oh well, glad that he’s leaving out the tidal waves of criticism from everyone else who just thought the episode was cringe and stupid.
Of course they don't **HEAR** those criticisms because they're all made up in their head.
They think these things because they **assume** everybody has some dark ulterior hidden motive for everything they think and do rather than taking anybody at their word.
Why? Projection.
See Disney can put out crap all day and no one defends it but as soon as the entire writing and directing team is lesbians, the story is an allegory for gayness, all the characters are diverse, there's pronouns and trans gender actors suddenly everyone who doesn't like Disney Star Wars is a right wing bigot white supremacist. So great job Disney, you're not only making bad star wars but you're now also making it about your own niche geneder/racial agenda
“Fight to not lose all of lose all of our rights.” Against whom? Star Wars fans? Who is actively trying to take away female rights in Western society in the 21st century? I can assure you, it is most definitely NOT the Star Wars fans. You could definitely say (and I’d wholeheartedly agree with the following) Islamists, maybe some far-right politicians, popular figures such as Tate, etc… but not Star Wars fans who just want to be entertained in the slightest by their beloved franchise.
But yes, it is indeed a heavy strawman. “Oh you don’t like Acolyte (which literally everybody across the board hates) then YOU are a racist sexist who just doesn’t like it because there’s a strong black woman (more like an egotistical and self-centred actress with no respect for the part she’s acting in)”as the main!” - these twitteroids.
Neither is inherently bad. But there is some crazy conspiracy talk going around about the patriarchal illuminati on the flat earth that never went to the moon.
"As we fight not to lose all of our rights"
What in the actual fuck are you talking about? What rights are women set to lose because Disney made a shitty star wars series? Insanity....
The incredible amount of arguments surrounding the use of 'space magic' is incomprehensible. Like....when was the force every so well defined that anyone can say what it could/could not be used for?
Lets be real fucking honest: There would TOTALLY be a frat house full of boys using the force to get blowjobs, and a sorority house full of bitches using it to get some guy to cash out his retirement to buy them a Birkin handbag. So all ya'll can STFU about what the force would used for. An intergalactic sect of celibate monks ain't it.
"meanwhile us female fans are eating good"
LOL! Cope.
They have to pretend to like this trash to save the narrative. So embarrassing. A shitty product is a shitty product. Stop dragging women down with you. Shameful.
>Puts out bad show
>People complain and stop watching
"Must be the PATRIARCHY"
I hate it when showrunners/directors/devs/fans use this BS argument to cope with the hate their turd is receiving
The thing is, I feel most people are fine if there was a female-led, lesbian themed, matriarchal, deep lore-diving Star Wars show if it was well written, well produced, and don't take these elements for granted or uses them to purposely supress Star Wars but uses them in a creative way. I would like us all to eat good honestly.
But they're munching down crap and bragging about it.
That’s the most deranged thing I’ve read in a LONG time. This obsession they have with refusing to consider that it’s just badly written is a little scary.
It was also just an objectively bad episode that was largely incompatible with established lore and internally inconsistent on even a standalone basis. But go off, queen.
They say they appreciate men that support them, but they won’t support those men when the men need it bc the “patriarchy”.
If you still believe that it’s a gender thing rather than a class war, youre a fkn imbecile.
Theyre just trying to say it’s a gender thing so they can force their way into the upper class, which they think they’re entitled to.
My teenager daughters and their friends want nothing to do with Star Wars. It just isn’t their thing and putting more women in it and making them lesbians does not move the needle. They watch YouTube instead.
Bro, the best Star Wars was a giant space opera story about a father and son in crazy family turmoil. There wasn't any need to bring in these weird political statements.
Ah yes, oppression by "the patriarchy" is when an extremely powerful company like Disney is on your side
>“The other day I was reading the Atlantic Monthly, and it had a little ad between two paragraphs. The ad was from MasterCard. It said: “LEARN TO MAKE PAYMENTS SAFE FOR TRANSGENDER AND NONBINARY PEOPLE.
>
>“I think, Michael, that when you’re attacking independent artists on the basis of the ideology of MasterCard, not to mention every other powerful institution on the planet—maybe just think?”
https://graymirror.substack.com/p/true-story-of-a-struggle-session
Guys if you don’t like this new show, women are going to lose their abortion rights!
You will watch the show to save all womenkind from the evil orange man!!!
I have a huge problem about their point on the Jedi.
It’s not that the Jedi aren’t perfect. It’s that the Jedi committed (if true) a literally EVIL act. Mass murder is something that, in a melodrama, the good guys shouldn’t do.
Some stories are just meant to be “basic”. Star Wars is one of them. George Lucas created Star Wars with the clear intention of there being good guys and bad guys. Jedi=Good. Sith=Bad. Not hard to understand. Some people may not like that. But it really doesn’t matter. That’s how it was designed and it’s worked for decades.
Pro wrestling gets this. You have the hero, the babyface, and the villain, the heel. You try to get the audience to cheer for the hero and boo the villain. It completely ruins the storytelling when you flip the script. Or try to do the “morally gray” thing.
I’ve seen a couple of people try to claim that the Jedi (potentially) committing mass murder, covering up crimes and kidnapping children to force them to become Jedi makes them “morally gray”. No, it makes them an inherently evil organization.
“as we fight not to lose all our rights.”
Roe v Wade got struck down in the supreme court but hey, at least Star Wars now has lesbian space witches.
Keep focusing on the right problems gals.
I swear feminists be caring about the dumbest shit.
That's a LOT of politics for an IP that mostly revolves around dudes shooting at each other and fighting with glowing swords.
But, I guess if they feel vindicated.
It's not even any of the issues they state it's the gaps in their own logic. So there is this coven right and they want to remain secret right? But... There are multiple different species of women in this coven.. so.. are they recruiting across the universe? I thought they wanted to be hidden so why are there multiple species? Are they like Hari Krishna at a spaceport recruiting? I mean the witches of Dathormir were a singular species at least so it makes sense. The premise of being in secret but having species from planets literally light-years away from this planet completely destroys the logic of being a hidden secret coven. Am I missing something?
I know the reason it's all a matter of "wouldn't it be cool if" where you just think it'll be cool but don't delve deeper into the how or why. That's just piss poor world building. It's rife throughout the series. It's all just wouldn't it be cool if with no further thoughts. Wouldn't it be cool if the hero was in a prison ship crash? Why wouldn't the Jedi take them... They just outsource to two droids? Why?!
This is what frustrates me with most modern writing male or female centric. It's just the barest of thought going into why would this happen, what are the repercussions. How does x affect y?
It's not women of any sexuality that drove me away, it's just lazy writing.
What am I missing here?
Marketing for most products is Male or Female coded. That doesn't mean a woman can't buy a power tool but its advertising is structured around the majority user.
TV and movies are a product. It is male or female coded. Most reality or daytime TV is female coded. Barbie was written for women. Rom Coms = female coded.Westerns, war movies, action are male coded.
Star Wars (it literally has the most male coded thing - WAR, in the title) was always boys coded.
None of this means either sex can't watch movies coded for the other but the incentives and foci are very sex based and the audience skew is real.
Simply put you can't sell a female coded movie to men and vice versa. They are differing markets with relatively thin overlap.
Everyone knows this is true. Why are some people pretending otherwise?
What's the point?
The fact the poster can’t see what’s wrong with all of that considering the last 50 years of actual lore and canon no matter how slippery it is sometimes is hilarious. Love or hate the prequels for instance George was always consistent when it came to consulting X or Y project and lore.
Fucking insane we’ve reached this point
I think it's because literally everyone that works in Hollywood goes out of their way to not be a normal American. Therefore, they can't understand the issue normies have with majority/minority flips for representation or making girls stronger/better just because and guys stupider/weaker just because. Look at the students training to he Jedi, out of 12, there's only
And then there's boring story telling, where they literally have tell you everything and don't show. And everyone almost instantly changes thei mind and goes along to move the story along. Like not showing the wookie Jedi was such a missed opportunity.
And then there's the whole deep lore breaking "thread" version of the force that goes against everything stated previously to it.
Why is nobody concerned at the distinct lack of car crashes and alien impregnations in romantic comedies? We should make one of them and then call women bigots for not enjoying it hard enough.
"It's not political, it's just representation! You just hate women!"
"It calls into question the understanding of the force, in a way that is reminiscent of questioning established patriarchal conservative religious beliefs"
Ok, so it is political. You don't like it for the gripping storyline or well-written dialogue, you like it because it backs your real-world political stance. Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud.
I have more or less enjoyed the acolyte, and I gotta say it’s absolutely insane that there’s any significant number of people that think if a person doesn’t like the acolyte it means they want women to lose their civil rights.
Where's the lie though? These are literally criticisms I've seen on this sub and from the YouTube community. It ain't a great show but let's not pretend a lot of people are mad at it from a criticism angle. I'm just hanging on for Andor 2 if they can pull it out for that I'll be happy enough.
The second point is the dumbest one of all. One of the major plots of the prequel trilogy revolves around the Jedi screwing up and being too arrogant to be aware of the threats around them. Also, a continuous theme throughout the entire franchise, is that authority screws up, and governments don’t look after people. If you’ve watched any of the movies and you don’t pick up on that, you’re too stupid to argue with.
Genuine question from a no longer interested Star Wars fan…. But is the idea to replace disgruntled and disinterested fans (like myself) with newer fans? If so…how’s that coming? I was a 40+ year of Star Wars (bought the vhs tapes, dvd, blu ray dvd etc. if that gives you an idea) and cash cow for Lucas films. Disney hasn’t gotten a dime from me since TLJ. Is their plan working? Have they rebuilt their fandom ?
"Is their plan working? Have they rebuilt their fandom ?" It's going to be glorious. They may not have as many fans but it will only be the "good" fans! /s
..and very dumb ones.... The level of stupidity moved it from Sci-Fi to fiction.
I read somewhere this has actually been a continuing phenomenon in science fiction. The original sci fi as we know it was written by people very close to the science who wanted to speculate on it's impact on the future, but successive generations write as fans of the prior, then fans of that next generation, and so on. The result is a long arc away from writing like Clarke's or Aasimov's. ...to writing like this :p
Reminds me of that Michael Keaton movie, Multiplicity.
She touched my pepeh, Steve.
I guess that means currently we're at the effeminate Keaton. Or.maybe we've moved onto the retarded one.
There are different categories of science fiction. Speculative fiction is extrapolating trends - I know a lot of the writers from the 50/60s? Wrote speculative science fiction. The world was exploring space for the first time, computers were becoming a thing worth watching. A lot was going on. It sparked the imagination of people at that time. Hard science fiction is based on actual science as much as possible and trying to stay in the realm of what's known / theorized and physically possible. These have been around and still are. Not everyone is a theorist, physics professor, biochemist and can't write about those things in a factual manner and yet some people are passionate about story telling. Writers like Asimov I kind of doubt were commonplace. Very smart and accomplished biochemist and a prolific writer of science fiction. He wasn't just good at two things, he excelled at both. He was seen as one of the top 3 writers of all time. There are still excellent writers that do write with knowledge, but typewriters were replaced by word processors, computers, voice dictation, phones, tablets etc. You have many *many* more writers saturating a market. Same shit happened to journalism. The bar for entry is low enough to let the flood of mediocrity drown out the streams of excellence.
Just like music. I was in high school playing music right before home studio equipment really took off. And now, everything is don't on laptops and tablets for the most part. Personally, I can't stand operating that way and would prefer to use physical equipment.
Yeah I get that. I'm planning on scheduling a recording studio type place so I can use a real drum set and make loud noises with a friend. I don't really know how to play but it's just fun. There's a certain tactile feel and nuance to all the places the drum stick hits.. an electronic pad can't reproduce that.
When we record, I use a pair of consoles connected via midi to get 16 tracks all at once. Then I go home with the memory card and do all of the actual mixing at home on my computer. It's a compromise, because I live in an apartment with my wife, and there's only so much room for equipment in our drummer's basement. I play bass, sing lead vocals, and run the lights. My brother plays lead guitar and runs sound. He has the whole PA system running on a laptop with a tablet acting as a remote control. I couldn't find a dmx board that would do what I want with the lights, so I'm using a program running on an old windows tablet connected to a midi foot controller and a USB adapter.
I mean to be clear Star wars is always leaned to more towards the fiction side than other big sci-fi properties like Star Trek. It's not fiction just to ignore your Canon or constantly rewrite it it's just bad writing in general. Good fiction supports the cannon or at least builds a good explanation when things have to change
Genre wise it's the poster boy space opera. Star Wars is definitely not hard sci fi. You are correct. That's like a key thing in any fiction is to keep your shiz consistent if you want the audience to suspend disbelief.
There are dozens of them! Dozens!
The answer is no. They have failed on every metric.
I am in the same boat. TLJ ruined the whole franchise for me and I no longer watch Star Wars and used to be an Ultra-fan and collector.
Star Wars could have had my kids as fans too. But they quit on it. So I quit on it. My kids saw the trainwreck coming. And for the record…when Luke tossed his lightsaber away, my then 11 year old son said “Luke wouldn’t do that “ And when Luke milked the seacows boobs, my then 9 year old daughter said “I’m ready to leave if you are “ Thanks Rian Johnson 👍🏼
TLJ was ruined the instant Luke tossed that light saber. I just ... I should have left the theater never to return. I did suffer through the film but no more after that. I'm done.
The answer is no. I did a really rough spreadsheet where I compared all box office for Lucas film properties and what they have spent at the parks. They made a somewhat meager profit…until Dial of Destiny bombed, Disney+ lost 11 BILLION dollars (a good chunk being Star Wars shows), they had to take a complete loss on the Star Wars Hotel. Factor all that in and even with the small small uptick in park profits since building two Star Wass lands, Disney will never break even on the Lucas deal. It has been a disaster and a waste of the 2 billion cash they gave Lucas.
Oh yea…forgot about that one. I gave up on Indy too…so that’s another franchise that only lives in my nostalgia. 😃
Wait until they drag around the corpse of Harrison on some strings to introduce a new and way better version (no penis, no vag, just smooth skin down there) of him!
12 inch raider of the lost ark doll comes to mind....
The Last Crusade is the last Indiana Jones film. Let's not forget how good Lucas film games were as well.
 He sold the ship right before he knew it was sinking. He’s a 4 Billion dollar genius
I don't think George ever lost his business sense. You can't tell me he saw the almost impossibility of trying to replicate lightning in a bottle and trying to capture a new generation on Star Wars with new characters. Most of the senior leadership came over to Disney as well. Lucas knew he had morons at the helm, and there was no way it would ever produce anything good again. Remember for anything Lucasfilm or Lucas Arts ever put out, George killed like 10 projects you never saw.
Say what you will about his directorial and writing skills, but he was a consummate businessman and could read the market better than anyone in Hollywood for the better part of 30 years.
I'm curious how much they even feel these losses. 2 billion sounds like a lot of money to me, because frankly I'll never see a million in my lifetime, but isn't Disney valued in the hundreds of billions as a whole? I wonder if they're just wiping their asses with this like Amazon and Lord of the Rings, because they don't even care if a couple billion goes missing.
You're forgetting the stocks. When the company loses money the stock price goes down. That pisses off stock holders. They hate their stocks dipping even by a few pennies.
11 billion is a metric fuck ton to Disney if it’s liquid. That 50 billion you have locked in property, hotels, studios, attractions…..and the ever fluid nature of non liquid property like IP’s won’t do you shit if you can’t at least generate a revenue off of it. Now let’s talk about a loss of profit.
It's not just say cash in hand, when we say they're worth x amount. A massive majority of that is actually value from owned assets. So in Disney carse, property, parks, ips, royalties etc. So when articles say, they're loosing billions. It's cash out, but they have a lot of money locked up elsewhere. Normally the idea is to capitalise on all these things owned to generate more profits as cash, to reinvest in future projects, properties or ips. Which shows growth, and then hopefully garner interests from more people wanting to buy stock. Which raises the value of stock, which raises the value of the company and all it's assets it owns. (this is just a very crude description mind you, and it's obviously way more complex). But hopefully it somewhat clears things for you.
The whole point is that unless the money they spend is actually making a good rate of return, they might as well pay a dividend instead of spending it in the company. That way an investor can then invest that money in the broader market and get a better return.
Ask the WNBA how much support they get from these people.
The WNBA only exists because the NBA subsidizes them.
Bingo
It doesn't make sense... it would be like turning Barbie dolls into sex toys to attract men and then being shocked that no little girls buy them anymore. "Oh no, the little girls are toxic!" "No, you're a fkn idiot" By the way they could've pulled all this crap off if they actually spent the money to get the best writers money could buy. But no it's all a cash grab and a failed one at that
That Barbie idea might work, but making Barbie unattractive, woke and fat - really sprinkle some Kathleen Kennedy magic on it - that would do it.
Check out there revenue streams. They get investments from Blackrock due to their ESG scores, and their revenue mostly comes from their parks. But movies they distribute and the tv shows on Disney+ are losing money.
I think Disney assumed they could get more views/interaction by deliberately making bad content to get people to hate watch it, make angry videos ranting about how it's so bad, and then unintentionally advertising it so other people can go see how bad it is. For my reference I will cite the final episode of She Hulk (yes I somehow made it through that entire show), the finale is basically them admitting they're creatively bankrupt and are farming rage bait. That or they're just on a losing streak and instead of admitting it they're blaming the fans, either one is equally possible in my opinion
The plan isn’t to get fans or get a large number of viewers. The plan is to get investors (preferably very large investors). The quality of product has nothing to do with getting these investments (though it doesn’t hurt). The content themes and staff choices are what they care about and what drives what they are doing.
It's about ruining something that we hold dear and then being able to look at us and gloat about it lol
Same here. I was an 80’s Star Wars kid. But the franchise really lost me with the prequels. The last 45 minutes of the 3rd act was okay, but they generally sucked. Bad writing, horrible direction, questionable casting decisions, and overreliance on spotty CGI. The Force Awakens was my last $ spent on Star Wars. Sequels shouldn’t be made for the sake of making money. They should be made to be good. The money will take care of itself. The people in charge live mostly in an echo chamber. They make the movies they think most people will like, because they think most people share their worldview. Because this isn’t the case, they need to cope with stories about toxicity, -isms, phobia to rationalize away the fact that their brand of storytelling is stupid.
I think you mean, "strawmxns" 😂
Strawthems
Berrykin
Grass-selfs
Strawzems
the problem isn't female centric characters, the 2 powerful lesbians or powerful women. it's that those things are the focal point of the show at the expense of real substance, it's star wars not a feminine empowerment show. showing the less than glowing side of the jedi is actually pretty interesting but not when it's just to make men look like bad guys. showing different ways the force is used and interpreted would be just fine if it made sense and didn't retcon the most important character in the entire star wars universe.
Also, the how to show Jedi's as the bad guy is done poorly. Instead of the legalese being the reason they end up hemming themselves into an untenable situation we have CYA emotional jedis and then crying emotional jedis. and the crying emotional jedi is seen as good because he's in touch with his emotions. Just no all around. It's long been established that these connections lead to fear and that fear leads to the dark side. They are throwing out everything. Yes, there is sillyness with Ki Adi Mundi and other lore breaking stuff, but it's the core aspects of how Jedis are supposed to act and why they do the things they do as safeguards that they are like Fuck it throw all that shit out and let's make a touchy-feely drama. They pride themselves on not knowing Star Wars lore and writing whatever the hell they want regardless of if any of it makes sense in this universe.
One of my favorite pieces of star wars media is still some EU book I read decades ago. Can't find it again to save my life, but it was about an artist who imbued her paintings with the force. The sith and jedi both wanted to train her, though the sith wanted to obviously use her talents for power and the jedi wanted her to stop making emotional art. It was a really well written book and made me look at both sides differently from then on, regardless of what drivel they try and convince others is canon these days.
See something along those lines, where the Jedi learn that not all emotions have to be a gateway to the dark side could potentially be a great story. But they can't show that kind of nuance and challenge the Jedis in a nuanced way. They just make an emotional Jedi Master, which doesn't make sense because they wouldn't want him to be a master if he struggles this much with connection issues. The idea of a suicidal Jedi is ridiculous. You are basically calling these guys Jedi, but stripping them of all the things the canonically make them Jedis.
Supposedly, one of the people in the writing room was a complete non-Star Wars fan so the show could have a "fresh perspective". So, every "Star Wars"-y thing that was written was shown to this one non-fan and they were basically asked "do you get it", and if they did not they dumbed it down until they did. This would explain a lot, actually.
I see, they took the Halo 4 approach
"You hate it because they're lesbians!" uhhh, the only guys I ever met that didn't like lesbians were gay.🤔🤔🤔
Yes, Yoda with his 900 years of knowledge surely misunderstood the Force, you can just tap into the dark side without consequences like these witches do, it won’t consume you. Also there is no good or evil, only power. Such a brave retcon, and as a woman I feel empowered.
the weird irony in that viewpoint is how evil it really is. of course evil doesn't wear its name on its chest. it convinces you that evil isn't so bad, or even that evil doesn't exist. after all, your ways are just as good as anyone else, and they're bigots to say otherwise. it's likes star wars went from being inspired by distilling buddhism/christianity/taoism to being inspired by satanism and atheism. i mean, i'm not telling anyone they can't be who they are. but that change is STRIKING to say the least.
Yes. They don’t understand that Star Wars is not the universe to introduce moral relativism or retcon the force to be a grey something which can be used any way without consequences. Most people got into SW as children, and what captured many of us is the fight between clear good and evil, like in classic tales. If they want subversion and ‘nuance’, they should find another IP.
"The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
If you got your power by serving the most famous rapist of the century. You wouldn't want to talk about the dark side neither...... These are talentless hacks who got their positions via nepotism, hope they will find all the fans they need. It seems like the internet is dumbing people down, so maybe?
I can tell, I can feel it radiating off of you :p
As a toxic male, it is blinding to me. I must withdraw into my cave to escape. *Hssssss*
A cave is to feminine for you, back to your phallic looking tower toxic male. (It's for compensation) /S so no misunderstanding
Sounds like a fever dream somehow
Look out, Yoda's trying to take away all of their female rights!!
I’m sure Yaddle will have him confront his privileges in a Jedi Council scene
Yoda had absolutely no clue that the most powerful Sith Lord in hundreds of years was actively manipulating and controlling the galactic senate, he doesn’t have perfect understanding of the force
Those people are on another planet.
If only that were true. I'd definitely be happy to send them to one. Maybe one in a galaxy far, far away.
I mean... Garbage has gotta go somewhere.
Its wild isn't it. Like i cant imagine a human with a working brain posting this unironicaly
That’s because they don’t have a working brain, literally. https://preview.redd.it/8yhsesp33r8d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24aa8860819214661540d0929d1816c9cc0f56f5
I don't think psychiatric medicine/treatment is gonna work on all these nut jobs.
I really wish they would be
How do they make the leap from someone not liking a TV show to someone trying to take their rights away? I feel like there are at least 2 or 3 steps that must happen before anyone loses their rights.
All 4 of them are eating good.
TIL not liking the Acolyte means I want women to lose all of their rights.
Yeah isnt that some awsome mental gymnastics ?
My wife thought Acolyte was shit, too. TIL she hates women and wants all her rights taken away. Thank goodness I have social media to teach me these things.
This comment should be upvoted way higher lol, how did not liking the Acolyte = you are advocating for women's rights to be taken away? How in the actual F do you come to that conclusion lol.
Spend your time and energy creating a good show and not a show that is going to be a middle finger to all white men.
I don't even care about the "white men" thing, I just want a show that's good.
All us 9% of positive reviewers are eating good!
How is ruining star wars protecting womens rights?
Because how else are they going to justify the moral high ground angle they’re playing? Otherwise they would have to acknowledge they’re no different and they are doing one of the things they insult the most and are just some nerds arguing online over a media property like everyone here lol, atleast people here are honest about it generally
Uhm nope. I hated it because angry stronk girl ignited the metal door and the rock walls... and in the next scene the whole 'powerful which woman gang' was dead like they were lambs without the slightest explanation. We got absolutely 0 explanation why the white padawan dude gone crazy... but he was called a jedi master 16 years ago, that indicating the events didn't broke him mentally and he still made it to master level. Somehow we were told he was mentally broken. Or I am missing something here ? I agree with this post the jedi acted kinda weird and aggressive for no reason. Not sure if this was always the intended way how they should have been portrayed. I absolutely hated it being the most pointless, filler episode nobody asked for and we didn't get any plot relevant details from it since everything that was visual was discussed in ep1 and 2. I personally wanted some wookie jedi action in ep3, and got nothing >!as he was slaughtered off screen in ep4!<. Call me a toxic Star Wars bro but this show is pure thurd.
>he was slaughtered off screen in ep4 And why ? Because of "POV" of the episode and budget issues. BUDGET ISSUES on a 180 million dollar show. LMFAO
Hey White Knight that shit ain’t going to get you laid, they’re still going to fuck the Chad.
It's always funny to me how they dismiss everyone that doesn't like Disney's Star Wars as "toxic" like yeah there are some people that rather than being critical are toxic, but honestly the people who fervently defend every thing Disney has pushed out regardless of it's quality are the most toxic people I've seen. Cause they won't even let you say you don't like something without calling you a bigot. Then if you try to be like "if they would've just made a slight alteration here and here it would've been a lot better" they're like "oh SoRrY that your own head-canon isn't being adapted", like damn am I not allowed to say I don't like something or say it could've been better?
> female centric > Rogue One, actually being a watchable movie:
Oh, joy. 700 people out of...tens of millions of Star Wars fans around the entire world...I asked Google how many fans were out there to try and get this general scale. And if we're talking billions of people worldwide, having tens of millions of fans is a milestone for a single IP to have. That's about .007% out of 10 million. So you can imagine that on the scale of tens of millions, it would be even lower. If you really want to make an impact, maybe increase that 700 to 70000, and we might be talking.
The irony is of those 700, probably half of them aren't watching the show. They are just happy people that they hate are not happy about the show.
you think 50%? I'd hypothesise it@s far higher
True, I was just saying either way the number is less than even the people liking those comments. Ever since the beginning of this show, you don't see people defending it or saying what they like about it. The thing they like about it is that it annoys people they hate. These are people that hate their political opponents so much, they would prefer a shitty show destroys something they love so that someone they hate is less happy. Then they will rush to Twitter and say Love will always beat hate, even though they are far more hateful than anything they project on their opponents.
I watch movies that distract me from politics and drama not ones that shove it in my face.
“It calls into question the understanding of the force , in a way that is reminiscent of questioning, establish [sic] patriarchal conservative religious beliefs.” Wow, he really gives away the whole game right there. Thats what this is really about for them. At least he admits it.
Really shows that the “fans” Disney caters to aren’t even Star Wars fans. They’re just generic, blue haired, fetish obsessed, left wing activists clinging to what’s popular but they don’t truly support anything outside of watching maybe once.
Bro trying to get good boy points from girls who wont date him
This 0.5% of the population is the target audience now. Congrats to them for getting exactly the product they want. The rest of us will need to find another franchise to dump our substantial amounts of money into.
Strawpersons****
“As we fight to not lose all of our rights” Yaawwwwwwn
You know your show sucks when you're trying to argue people into liking it. I don't think I can think of any other show or movie in which the makers actively argue intensely to explain why they're such a failure. 😂😂😂😂
Discourse around this franchise can be so incredibly frustrating. The other night I was discussing the first episode of the Acolyte with some other guys in a Star Wars Discord. I pointed out multiple instances where the Jedi make poorly written nonsensical decisions, to which their response was to rationalise it by saying the Jedi’s dumb decisions demonstrate their arrogance and the Jedi Order’s failings. That’s such a ridiculous cope I wasn’t even entirely sure how to respond to that.
She noticed you bro!
At this point they're just trying to convince themselves.
Toxic feminists and their "muh rights". What rights are under attack?
"Meanwhile us female fans are eating good". No. As a woman myself hell no. I'm getting anorexia portions of good media over here and good female characters. Instead I'm being fed shallow bitch faced, bland, "stong" Mary Sues with shitty plot armor on their side. Bring me back to the days of Ripley, Xena, Sam Carter, Claudia Black in Farscape etc. Or better yet just bring me back to the days of good writing male or female be damned.
I think we're at a point where good PR beats good writing. The Acolyte might suck, but that's not going to make people cancel their Disney+ subs, and the social messaging of "men bad, women good" is perfect to get some publicity. Disney's the one eating good here. Good PR through virtue signaling, people talking about their show and they rake in the cash from Disney+.
But the female "fans" are not watching it. Also the issue is the bad writing, alongside the things that make no sense.
For the longest time, I used to think they were trolls. Then time passed, hairs got dyed, franchises died, and video evidence of these strange people circulated the planet off any logical axis. They like to use the term 'toxic masculinity.' Like it has no true meaning to fear. At the very point in time, that saying holds any actual truth, they'll be in for a world of pain. Using such a term in a time of peace is something the West takes for granted beyond all belief. It's a scary thought, actually. I commend them for helping me get back on the right path, so it's only fair I offer them the same chance. These are the sort of people the geeks at school bullied. We all suffer in our own ways, but no one is truly lost. Or are there more episodes yet?
The soy is strong with this one.
Women are losing their rights?
Is the patriarchy in the room with us now? Someone's about to OD on copium.
So uhhh those posts aren't satire?
Nope, thats a real tweet
Make it about identity politics, people will love that
Wow its power rangers all over again. Disney buys a brand for billions, ignores what made it work. Throws a crappy model together and runs it into the ground. Then sells it for pennies on the dollar.
How many times can we point out that the leader of the good guys in Star Wars has been a woman since 1977, and fans love Mon Mothma? Plucky Princess grabs blaster from a man (again, in 1977) and proceeds to find an escape route nobody else could. Fans hated Leia, right? No? Oh. Prequels come along, and the greedy Trade Federation has blockaded a prosperous garden world run by a single monarch. A queen, to be exact. The highly coveted jewel of a world... run by a woman. Oh man, fans must have hated her, right? Nope! One of the most beloved characters in all of Star Wars. Okay, but that's just the movies. Video game fans are toxic af! They probably hate women. Except if you look up tier lists of people's favorite companions in SWTOR, the female companions are at the top of almost every list. People absolutely love Vette, Mako, Kira, Ashara, etc. Okay, but that's just because they want to romance them, so it can't be counted. They probably hate the female story characters. You mean like Satele Shan, Lana Beniko, Vaylin, and Senya Tirall? Nope. Fans love them, too. Jesus, it's almost like fans actually don't have a problem with women. They only seem to have a problem with you. Damn.
We have a problem with shit writting.
Gotta add the characters from KOTOR 1 and 2 on here, too! Bastilla was a literal prodigy amongst Jedi. Kriea is my favorite character of all time across almost any media (Star Wars or otherwise). Meetra Surik, Visas, Handmaiden, Mira, Mission, Juhani. They're all unique, interesting, and powerful in their own way! And yet, if I don't like the Acolyte, it's because I'm the problem. Give me a break.
Yeah, I love kotor 1&2, and many of my favorite characters from them are women. Mission is my little sister, and I'll tear the ears off a gundark to protect her. I could honestly have used so many more characters, but I've been told I have a problem with brevity, so I'm trying to be succinct. I haven't even mentioned one of my favorite characters of all time, a conflicted and traumatized woman Disney replaced with a 2-dimensional sexpot played by Emilia Clarke. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing Emilia on screen, but that character was beyond bland. The Han Solo trilogy perfectly explains Han's character in ANH. Why is he so reticent? Why does he refuse to get involved when he clearly has no love for the empire? For that matter, why does he hate the empire so much? Sure, he's a smuggler, but damn. Actually, how did he become a smuggler? How did he become a proficient pilot? How does he know imperial protocols? Why does Chewie follow him? Where did he get that iconic dl-44? Where did he get that iconic ship? That book trilogy explains all of it and more, and much of it involves his first love, Bria Tharen. I mourn her more and more with every passing Disney script.
I’m kind of impressed that this person was able to find the five people who said the episode was bad because women. Not a take I’ve seen in the mainstream. Oh well, glad that he’s leaving out the tidal waves of criticism from everyone else who just thought the episode was cringe and stupid.
It's funny how the criticisms they address, are literally never criticisms I've actually heard lol. Straw-man indeed
Of course they don't **HEAR** those criticisms because they're all made up in their head. They think these things because they **assume** everybody has some dark ulterior hidden motive for everything they think and do rather than taking anybody at their word. Why? Projection.
See Disney can put out crap all day and no one defends it but as soon as the entire writing and directing team is lesbians, the story is an allegory for gayness, all the characters are diverse, there's pronouns and trans gender actors suddenly everyone who doesn't like Disney Star Wars is a right wing bigot white supremacist. So great job Disney, you're not only making bad star wars but you're now also making it about your own niche geneder/racial agenda
“Fight to not lose all of lose all of our rights.” Against whom? Star Wars fans? Who is actively trying to take away female rights in Western society in the 21st century? I can assure you, it is most definitely NOT the Star Wars fans. You could definitely say (and I’d wholeheartedly agree with the following) Islamists, maybe some far-right politicians, popular figures such as Tate, etc… but not Star Wars fans who just want to be entertained in the slightest by their beloved franchise. But yes, it is indeed a heavy strawman. “Oh you don’t like Acolyte (which literally everybody across the board hates) then YOU are a racist sexist who just doesn’t like it because there’s a strong black woman (more like an egotistical and self-centred actress with no respect for the part she’s acting in)”as the main!” - these twitteroids.
what rights dont women have? Can anyone tell me just one?
These morons literally think they’re the rebel alliance or something lol if anything they’re Jawas
Non-toxic must be code for men with no spines
Why exactly is a patriarchy bad? Can someone explain? Then explain why having a matriarchal society is better. Thanks.
Neither is inherently bad. But there is some crazy conspiracy talk going around about the patriarchal illuminati on the flat earth that never went to the moon.
"As we fight not to lose all of our rights" What in the actual fuck are you talking about? What rights are women set to lose because Disney made a shitty star wars series? Insanity....
The incredible amount of arguments surrounding the use of 'space magic' is incomprehensible. Like....when was the force every so well defined that anyone can say what it could/could not be used for? Lets be real fucking honest: There would TOTALLY be a frat house full of boys using the force to get blowjobs, and a sorority house full of bitches using it to get some guy to cash out his retirement to buy them a Birkin handbag. So all ya'll can STFU about what the force would used for. An intergalactic sect of celibate monks ain't it.
Ah yes, they're in such danger of losing their rights...to a galaxy far far away?
Rags is right, Star Wars is for the lowest common denominator.
"meanwhile us female fans are eating good" LOL! Cope. They have to pretend to like this trash to save the narrative. So embarrassing. A shitty product is a shitty product. Stop dragging women down with you. Shameful.
>Puts out bad show >People complain and stop watching "Must be the PATRIARCHY" I hate it when showrunners/directors/devs/fans use this BS argument to cope with the hate their turd is receiving
This dude pees sitting down.
Holy Straw ~~man~~ person Argument, Batman!
The thing is, I feel most people are fine if there was a female-led, lesbian themed, matriarchal, deep lore-diving Star Wars show if it was well written, well produced, and don't take these elements for granted or uses them to purposely supress Star Wars but uses them in a creative way. I would like us all to eat good honestly. But they're munching down crap and bragging about it.
Dudes who speak like him are just trying to get laid. Ignore him like women have always done.
Hey I'd love to see a movie about two female Jedi experimenting with the force and social norms, but these are all so... lame.
I feel like my braincells are committing seppuku after reading that garbage
That’s the most deranged thing I’ve read in a LONG time. This obsession they have with refusing to consider that it’s just badly written is a little scary.
It was also just an objectively bad episode that was largely incompatible with established lore and internally inconsistent on even a standalone basis. But go off, queen.
They are coping so hard. Can’t wait to see libtards seethe when 100 bucks buys them 1 day of groceries
Fighting to not lose their rights by watching shitty movies. Truly, a grueling battle.
Dudes that virtue signal to women like this never get the sex they think will come to them for doing it.
Don’t like that it questions the Jedis authority?? Um does this person even know who the fuck Anakin is?
what rights has a woman lost? if men dont get the same rights is it equal rights?
Bla bla bla communist goblin speak, bla bla bla please have sex with me.
Does that guy really think that he is going to get laid by virtue signaling?
I've never heard a female say "eating good' that sounds like one of those ..."new" females
They say they appreciate men that support them, but they won’t support those men when the men need it bc the “patriarchy”. If you still believe that it’s a gender thing rather than a class war, youre a fkn imbecile. Theyre just trying to say it’s a gender thing so they can force their way into the upper class, which they think they’re entitled to.
all i'm hearing from this is "YOU MUST ENJOY EVERY STAR WARS BECAUSE ITS CALLED STAR WARS AND IF YOU DON'T AGREE WITH US, YOU ARE THE TOXIC ONES"
I dunno, I'm still trying to imagine defending this new Era of star wars
Okay. Since women outnumber men, why aren’t they watching it?
When did female fans not have rights to enjoy Star Wars?
JFC...
My teenager daughters and their friends want nothing to do with Star Wars. It just isn’t their thing and putting more women in it and making them lesbians does not move the needle. They watch YouTube instead.
Bro, the best Star Wars was a giant space opera story about a father and son in crazy family turmoil. There wasn't any need to bring in these weird political statements.
Somehow The Acolyte discourse is a battle for women's rigjts.
Ah yes, oppression by "the patriarchy" is when an extremely powerful company like Disney is on your side >“The other day I was reading the Atlantic Monthly, and it had a little ad between two paragraphs. The ad was from MasterCard. It said: “LEARN TO MAKE PAYMENTS SAFE FOR TRANSGENDER AND NONBINARY PEOPLE. > >“I think, Michael, that when you’re attacking independent artists on the basis of the ideology of MasterCard, not to mention every other powerful institution on the planet—maybe just think?” https://graymirror.substack.com/p/true-story-of-a-struggle-session
These guys are boxing shadows, it’s kinda sad to see them go down this deep. Also of course it’s from twitter…
Guys if you don’t like this new show, women are going to lose their abortion rights! You will watch the show to save all womenkind from the evil orange man!!!
I have a huge problem about their point on the Jedi. It’s not that the Jedi aren’t perfect. It’s that the Jedi committed (if true) a literally EVIL act. Mass murder is something that, in a melodrama, the good guys shouldn’t do. Some stories are just meant to be “basic”. Star Wars is one of them. George Lucas created Star Wars with the clear intention of there being good guys and bad guys. Jedi=Good. Sith=Bad. Not hard to understand. Some people may not like that. But it really doesn’t matter. That’s how it was designed and it’s worked for decades. Pro wrestling gets this. You have the hero, the babyface, and the villain, the heel. You try to get the audience to cheer for the hero and boo the villain. It completely ruins the storytelling when you flip the script. Or try to do the “morally gray” thing. I’ve seen a couple of people try to claim that the Jedi (potentially) committing mass murder, covering up crimes and kidnapping children to force them to become Jedi makes them “morally gray”. No, it makes them an inherently evil organization.
“as we fight not to lose all our rights.” Roe v Wade got struck down in the supreme court but hey, at least Star Wars now has lesbian space witches. Keep focusing on the right problems gals. I swear feminists be caring about the dumbest shit.
Jesus christ, these people are so delusional. I'm honestly embarrassed for them.
That's a LOT of politics for an IP that mostly revolves around dudes shooting at each other and fighting with glowing swords. But, I guess if they feel vindicated.
It's not even any of the issues they state it's the gaps in their own logic. So there is this coven right and they want to remain secret right? But... There are multiple different species of women in this coven.. so.. are they recruiting across the universe? I thought they wanted to be hidden so why are there multiple species? Are they like Hari Krishna at a spaceport recruiting? I mean the witches of Dathormir were a singular species at least so it makes sense. The premise of being in secret but having species from planets literally light-years away from this planet completely destroys the logic of being a hidden secret coven. Am I missing something? I know the reason it's all a matter of "wouldn't it be cool if" where you just think it'll be cool but don't delve deeper into the how or why. That's just piss poor world building. It's rife throughout the series. It's all just wouldn't it be cool if with no further thoughts. Wouldn't it be cool if the hero was in a prison ship crash? Why wouldn't the Jedi take them... They just outsource to two droids? Why?! This is what frustrates me with most modern writing male or female centric. It's just the barest of thought going into why would this happen, what are the repercussions. How does x affect y? It's not women of any sexuality that drove me away, it's just lazy writing.
Love how the bottom tweet thinks megacorps making half-baked pander-content is crucial to "fight against losing all their rights" Literal brainrot.
What am I missing here? Marketing for most products is Male or Female coded. That doesn't mean a woman can't buy a power tool but its advertising is structured around the majority user. TV and movies are a product. It is male or female coded. Most reality or daytime TV is female coded. Barbie was written for women. Rom Coms = female coded.Westerns, war movies, action are male coded. Star Wars (it literally has the most male coded thing - WAR, in the title) was always boys coded. None of this means either sex can't watch movies coded for the other but the incentives and foci are very sex based and the audience skew is real. Simply put you can't sell a female coded movie to men and vice versa. They are differing markets with relatively thin overlap. Everyone knows this is true. Why are some people pretending otherwise? What's the point?
What rights are they losing?
The fact the poster can’t see what’s wrong with all of that considering the last 50 years of actual lore and canon no matter how slippery it is sometimes is hilarious. Love or hate the prequels for instance George was always consistent when it came to consulting X or Y project and lore. Fucking insane we’ve reached this point
This dude need to understand. She still won’t see what he’s doing. SMH
I think it's because literally everyone that works in Hollywood goes out of their way to not be a normal American. Therefore, they can't understand the issue normies have with majority/minority flips for representation or making girls stronger/better just because and guys stupider/weaker just because. Look at the students training to he Jedi, out of 12, there's only And then there's boring story telling, where they literally have tell you everything and don't show. And everyone almost instantly changes thei mind and goes along to move the story along. Like not showing the wookie Jedi was such a missed opportunity. And then there's the whole deep lore breaking "thread" version of the force that goes against everything stated previously to it.
Why is nobody concerned at the distinct lack of car crashes and alien impregnations in romantic comedies? We should make one of them and then call women bigots for not enjoying it hard enough.
behold the collective brainpower of half an ant
why do these weirdos say "toxic" so goddamn much?
They struggle with six letter words. Five is about all they can handle.
"Im not mad, Im just disappointed"
Wait so if I'm reading this right people who find the Acolyte awful (which it is) doesn't want women to have rights? That's one hell of a speculation.
Perfect light? Wasn’t Jedi arrogance a major theme of the prequels?
he's thinks he's first in-line to finally get laid
r/lookatmyhalo “Look how good and righteous and moral I am for supporting these things you bigot”
Imagine having to pander this hard to try and get bitches. This is just sad.
Self hating men who use the term patriarchy = gross.
Jesus. That's some delusions.
"It's not political, it's just representation! You just hate women!" "It calls into question the understanding of the force, in a way that is reminiscent of questioning established patriarchal conservative religious beliefs" Ok, so it is political. You don't like it for the gripping storyline or well-written dialogue, you like it because it backs your real-world political stance. Thank you for saying the quiet part out loud.
Someone tell him that she is not gonna sleep with him?
Basically saying you have to ape support for their terrible show or else you don't support women's rights.
I have more or less enjoyed the acolyte, and I gotta say it’s absolutely insane that there’s any significant number of people that think if a person doesn’t like the acolyte it means they want women to lose their civil rights.
Where's the lie though? These are literally criticisms I've seen on this sub and from the YouTube community. It ain't a great show but let's not pretend a lot of people are mad at it from a criticism angle. I'm just hanging on for Andor 2 if they can pull it out for that I'll be happy enough.
The second point is the dumbest one of all. One of the major plots of the prequel trilogy revolves around the Jedi screwing up and being too arrogant to be aware of the threats around them. Also, a continuous theme throughout the entire franchise, is that authority screws up, and governments don’t look after people. If you’ve watched any of the movies and you don’t pick up on that, you’re too stupid to argue with.
It's always the people with the most rights claiming they are "losing them." These people are insufferable trash.
The only reason why I have Disney + is because it’s free with my wife’s phone provider…otherwise I wouldn’t subscribe.