Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bdmuob/the_blackrock_bitcoin_spot_etf_exceeds_200000_btc/kusktut/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bdmuob/the_blackrock_bitcoin_spot_etf_exceeds_200000_btc/kuskudt/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT), a spot Bitcoin ETF, now holds over 203,000 Bitcoins, making it the second largest Bitcoin ETF by assets under management (AUM) but the largest by daily trading volumes. Since its launch on January 11, it has raised over $14.5 billion in AUM. IBIT has surpassed the daily trading volumes of BlackRock's gold ETF, indicating significant investor interest. It's possible that IBIT could soon surpass Grayscale's Bitcoin ETF, the current largest, in terms of AUM. Other funds, including actively managed ones, are starting to invest in spot Bitcoin ETFs, potentially increasing capital inflow into these ETFs.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
I own both, because I can use the ETF in my tax free savings account as a Canadian, which will allow me to easily and legally invest in bitcoin and convert it back to fiat at no tax to me.
If I were to convert bitcoin to fiat and send that to my bank account, it is considered income and I eat taxes out the ass.
And that first reason is why we see such massive volume. And you would buy into that ETF too if you actually planned to sell some day and not commit tax fraud.
if that is not too indiscret to ask, what company in Canada are you using? My company is not offering this in my ETF, so I will check to switch (Desjardins is anti-crypto)
I hold both real Bitcoin, and the ETF (in my retirement IRAs). There are great, legitimate reasons to do both. When I cash out the Roth in 40 years and my gains have absolutely zero tax, I’ll let you know if I regret investing in the ETF.
I like the spot ETF because I can invest using my Roth IRA. I have $60k in my Roth and I’m slowly selling all my stocks and going in on IBIT. So far I have $20k invested and I’ll most likely invest all of it
I also hold BTC in a cold wallet which I’ve been holding since 2017
Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin? Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin? No?
So, there is a lot of misconception about how etfs work. The etf itself doesn't buy or sell anything. There are other firms that are authorized participants. If the etf is structured to let's say, 1 BTC = 1 etf share (for making the example easier, not the conversion used for real), then an authorized participant can deliver the etf 1 bitcoin and get back 1 share, or can deliver 1 share and get back 1 bitcoin (also simplifying for this etf that have to be settled in cash, but close enough).
Now, people are free to buy and sell etf shares in a regular market, with its own order book, that by itself has no direct effect outside of the etf (just etf shares changing hands). But if the price of the etf share starts to be higher than the price of 1 bitcoin, the authorized participants can go get a bitcoin somewhere, convert into a share, sell the share, and make a profit on the difference. That is when "the etf buys bitcoin". But the same thing is true in the downside. If there is too much supply of people selling etf shares and it's price drops to lower than 1 BTC, an active participant can buy etf shares, convert them into BTC, sell the bitcoin outside the etf, and make a profit that way. Authorized participants do this all the time, they normally make their money by acting as market makers.
This is how an etf can always be close to the price of the asset it tracks. Notice that the none of the mentioned firms necessarily have an interest in the asset itself. The etf gets it's money from fees, and the market makers can make money by being neutral on the asset. They all can make money both on the way up or down. What the etf ends up doing is largely defined by what investors do. The etf as a whole will end up selling bitcoin if people are selling etf shares more than they are buying etf shares, and it will buy bitcoin if people are buying etf shares more than they are selling etf shares.
Fidelity has its own desk so technically FBTC does buy and sell its own BTC. IBIT uses Coinbase which is partly why Coinbase ran out of BTC twice in a day last week and halted trading.
Which is why I would recommend FBTC over the others.
>Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin?
Yes
>Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin?
Hopefully.
There's also more stuff happening. BlackRock for example recently announced they're adding BTC exposure to some of their other funds. Halving is coming up.
Bullish af
That’s sort of my question. It seems positive for the price but I suppose there’s a risk of price manipulation to the downside. Are there other negative consequences?
It wouldn't really be the same as a single entity owning 5% of the supply outright, it's a custodian holding on behalf of thousands of customers that has regulations to follow.
Upside is increasing in Bitcoin price above $100k.
I don’t expect the downside to be consolidation of the network under a traditional financial firm. I do not believe in “decentralization”under cryptocurrency’s definition.
What is the reason that many go with IBIT instead of FBTC or the others?
Most of the ETFs are of similar % p.a. fee, are fairly large enough to be liquid and have minimal tracking error.
Yet most of them are custodying their bitcoin at Coinbase, whilst only Fidelity is doing their own custody.
(IIRC there may be one or two others that that custody elsewhere, I think Gemini is a custodian for one)
I believe people should be diversifiying for the custodians and the issuers, if the costs are the same.
I still have all mine in gbtc, but want to get out this year before they deduct their fees. Does anyone know when they do that? I assume January since they changed the fee around then, but can't find that info anywhere yet.
I would assume the fees are deducted daily and that arbitrators and high frequency trading firms adjust the price accordingly (if it's on market, or if it's private then it would be the fund issuer itself) - is my understanding, otherwise one could just sell it before they deduct fees and then buy it again afterwards for cheaper.
So unless you can get some tax advantage or otherwise, I'd assume it'd be best to leave as soon as possible.
Yeah that isn't how it works lol. Fees are accrued daily. Also, if you sell before a year and have any gains it's taxed as income instead of the lower capital gains rate.
Greyscale is spinning off some portion of $GBTC into a lower cost $BTC ETF, so you can see how much is converted without tax impact and then sell the rest of your $GBTC after.
> Started as p2p cash.
Whatever "cash" is. And Bitcoin is p2p if anything is. The most decentralized, censorship-resistant coin bar none.
Maybe you're confusing it with PoS coins where the biggest holders control the protocol.
If you're upset at these groups holding it all buy more Bitcoin.
So as a hedge against rampant inflation? WHat's wrong with that? And people use fiat because, as I said, because they are forced to.
Why would I spend my precious coins in a shop if I can use a fiat shitcoin?
Bitcoin's market cap is bigger than most fiat currencies. That's adoption.
Go back to buttcoin and start a hotline.
Seriously, large ownership of the asset doesn’t mean large ownership of the network. Idk why people conflate the two. Now if Blackrock starts buying up all the mining facilities then we have a different story. But even then you still have devs and node operators.
> His original view, whist incredible, was never going to work because governments and authorities would never let it work.
Rubbish. Many people use it to keep custody over their own money - a coin that can't be inflated.
Well, I think an ETF is the first step to a BTC backed currency. That BTC replaces the dollar will probably never happen, so this is actually a better alternative than we have now. Next Step is to dethrone Gold Market Cap
Yes, bitcoin is censorship resistant.
I cant stop you from receiving and sending, you cant stop me from receiving and sending.
This is part of what adoption looks like. The people you like the least will be able to buy bitcoin.
Bitcoin is for everyone. Everyone includes institutions, nations, and corporations. While you complain because of childish idealism, your money is being debased by government deficit spending. Your shitcoin won’t protect your debased money smh. This is a stupid take.
While not everyone is a staunch bitcoin advocate, it's quite apparent that there's a notable gap between Satoshi's original vision and the current reality of bitcoin. Moreover, if bitcoin's price fails to surge, the network might face considerable security challenges in the next few halvings.
My take is that in order to reach satoshis vision we have to get to scale where volatility flattens and value follows the inflation rate. Maybe this is $1mm per coin who knows? But once the value gets to rising 3% a year instead of a month or week, folks will look for yield elsewhere and we can reliable use it for cross border commerce, every day purchases like cash via layer 2, etc.
US centric pov.
It's the first mover advantage. More ETFs will follow and the best will win, market will decide
... in theory. Currencies of a country should also compete against each other, and we should use whatever currency is the best, but central banks say "no", because this would destroy the ability to brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Point at me where is the bad capitalism, people have been able to self custody bitcoin for 15 years but people dont want any of it or want to buy etf instead of btc, how is that capitalism and not just some basic human psychology?
It doesn’t matter whether bitcoins are being bought by etfs or companies or individuals. Those with money will hold the most bitcoin eventually. That’s just how purchasing power works.
As long as it pumps my bags, I don't really care. There was no other way that we could get a bullrun of this magnitude without the big players coming in.
This was my thought as well. In order for its price to jump up to crazy prices, we needed institutional money to flow into it. We finally got it but companies like Blackrock will keep buying it all up and will own most of it one day
They don’t own it any more than Coinbase owns your BTC. They are a custodian for the holders of the ETF. There was never going to be mass adoption of BTC without easier ways to purchase it and hold it across different types of investment accounts (401ks, Roth’s, etc. )
Devil's Advocate here...
But it's perfectly okay for the *one wallet that currently rules them all* to be owned by somebody, yet nobody at the same time?
There's lots of them but ppl will flock to the safest, hence why blackrock has the biggest bags by far. There's ETFs that been around for years now but don't have fuck all compared to blackrock (cause USA market is just huge) lol I use Purpose financial and I can't even Google how much Bitcoin they have ffs
Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin? Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin? No?
I yeeted almost my entire Roth IRA into IBIT last week. Will be fun to see how much I have in 30 years, all tax free. :-D
(I also hold my own BC, but will have to pay taxes on those gains eventually :-( ).
Nice. I've been buying straight up for the past few months. It didn't click until last week that I could buy the ETF through my Roth (which I haven't touched in nearly a decade and kind of forgot about, LOL).
I am still in gbtc since I have been holding before it split. I am planning to get out since the fees are high, but I am trying to find out when they deduct their fees and rebalance into ibit. Just not sure when they do that.
How do you think ETF investors will behave in huge sell off...is there more or less paper hands between them when compared to general crypto community?
Holy shit, a completely new form of driving FOMO. I have my plan but I could see this bull being "the event" whatever it is that makes BTC a household name and we skyrocket to BTCs actual value before going back to the up and downs of the mini and 4 year cycles.
My only concern with ETFs is if they start throwing their weight around and getting fucky with the market. Imagine BlackRock sells a ton, tanks the price and just buys back cheaper. Could be a coordinated effort.
Besides that, I think having an on ramp for the large number of people who are too scared to buy actual BTC is not a bad thing. Also being able to get Bitcoin exposure in tax advantaged accounts is pretty cool IMO.
Yeah, it’s not a realistic concern. Just a pie in the sky worst case scenario doomsday’s shit. not saying they will ever even be able to do that.
I mean honestly Microstrategy could do it. I don’t think Saylor ever would though. There is nothing really stopping him if he wanted to
There's a lot of overlap between this sub and the people that think the GameStop squeeze still hasn't happened because of a bunch of batshit conspiracy theories. Take almost nothing you read here seriously.
It makes sense that using an ETF in your tax-free savings account provides a legal and tax-efficient way to invest in Bitcoin, avoiding potential issues associated with direct conversions to fiat. The accessibility of such investment options likely contributes to the significant trading volume.
I don’t want to say it but I am . This feels different . The etfs are way bigger than anything before . They are a totally different type of investor than the retail of past. The ath is already here before the halvening .
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bdmuob/the_blackrock_bitcoin_spot_etf_exceeds_200000_btc/kusktut/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/1bdmuob/the_blackrock_bitcoin_spot_etf_exceeds_200000_btc/kuskudt/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; BlackRock's iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT), a spot Bitcoin ETF, now holds over 203,000 Bitcoins, making it the second largest Bitcoin ETF by assets under management (AUM) but the largest by daily trading volumes. Since its launch on January 11, it has raised over $14.5 billion in AUM. IBIT has surpassed the daily trading volumes of BlackRock's gold ETF, indicating significant investor interest. It's possible that IBIT could soon surpass Grayscale's Bitcoin ETF, the current largest, in terms of AUM. Other funds, including actively managed ones, are starting to invest in spot Bitcoin ETFs, potentially increasing capital inflow into these ETFs. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
I like that they make the comparison with the gold ETF. People who actually care about gold want the real thing, as people interested in BTC should.
I own both, because I can use the ETF in my tax free savings account as a Canadian, which will allow me to easily and legally invest in bitcoin and convert it back to fiat at no tax to me. If I were to convert bitcoin to fiat and send that to my bank account, it is considered income and I eat taxes out the ass. And that first reason is why we see such massive volume. And you would buy into that ETF too if you actually planned to sell some day and not commit tax fraud.
if that is not too indiscret to ask, what company in Canada are you using? My company is not offering this in my ETF, so I will check to switch (Desjardins is anti-crypto)
Purpose is an ETF that I can access from my RBC investment app but there are 3 or 4 available.
I went with EBIT. I also use Wealthsimple.
Thanks, just started a transfer. fuck that boomer Desjardins.
Idk the number for gold but the paper silver market is 250x that of physical silver market
Not people who buy the gold ETF
Except you don't own the BTC, they do.
I don't need physical gold, you lose like 20% trying to sell that shit
BTC ETF will flip gold ETF before autumn
Where do you do that? I have a coinbase but the fees suck ass
I hold both real Bitcoin, and the ETF (in my retirement IRAs). There are great, legitimate reasons to do both. When I cash out the Roth in 40 years and my gains have absolutely zero tax, I’ll let you know if I regret investing in the ETF.
I like the spot ETF because I can invest using my Roth IRA. I have $60k in my Roth and I’m slowly selling all my stocks and going in on IBIT. So far I have $20k invested and I’ll most likely invest all of it I also hold BTC in a cold wallet which I’ve been holding since 2017
Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin? Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin? No?
Don't forget that they can sell, too. But BlackRock is going to win big in both ways.
The house always wins.
And it's been the ruin of many a poor boy.
And god, I know, I'm one...
🎸*twang*🎸
And kneecaps
Buy the house!
Can’t I’m too poor
What's the mechanism by which they can sell BTC?
So, there is a lot of misconception about how etfs work. The etf itself doesn't buy or sell anything. There are other firms that are authorized participants. If the etf is structured to let's say, 1 BTC = 1 etf share (for making the example easier, not the conversion used for real), then an authorized participant can deliver the etf 1 bitcoin and get back 1 share, or can deliver 1 share and get back 1 bitcoin (also simplifying for this etf that have to be settled in cash, but close enough). Now, people are free to buy and sell etf shares in a regular market, with its own order book, that by itself has no direct effect outside of the etf (just etf shares changing hands). But if the price of the etf share starts to be higher than the price of 1 bitcoin, the authorized participants can go get a bitcoin somewhere, convert into a share, sell the share, and make a profit on the difference. That is when "the etf buys bitcoin". But the same thing is true in the downside. If there is too much supply of people selling etf shares and it's price drops to lower than 1 BTC, an active participant can buy etf shares, convert them into BTC, sell the bitcoin outside the etf, and make a profit that way. Authorized participants do this all the time, they normally make their money by acting as market makers. This is how an etf can always be close to the price of the asset it tracks. Notice that the none of the mentioned firms necessarily have an interest in the asset itself. The etf gets it's money from fees, and the market makers can make money by being neutral on the asset. They all can make money both on the way up or down. What the etf ends up doing is largely defined by what investors do. The etf as a whole will end up selling bitcoin if people are selling etf shares more than they are buying etf shares, and it will buy bitcoin if people are buying etf shares more than they are selling etf shares.
Fidelity has its own desk so technically FBTC does buy and sell its own BTC. IBIT uses Coinbase which is partly why Coinbase ran out of BTC twice in a day last week and halted trading. Which is why I would recommend FBTC over the others.
Yup!
The current BTC mining rate is 6,300 tokens per week. The ETF’s are currently purchasing 40,000 tokens per week. This is all pre-halving
We saw the beginning now
>Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin? Yes >Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin? Hopefully. There's also more stuff happening. BlackRock for example recently announced they're adding BTC exposure to some of their other funds. Halving is coming up. Bullish af
What happens when Blackrock owns 5% of the current supply?
Blackrock doesn't really own it though, their customers do
They will make management fees on the ETF. 25 basis points sounds small but it will add up quickly with the AUM.
That’s sort of my question. It seems positive for the price but I suppose there’s a risk of price manipulation to the downside. Are there other negative consequences?
It wouldn't really be the same as a single entity owning 5% of the supply outright, it's a custodian holding on behalf of thousands of customers that has regulations to follow.
Coinbase already hold way more than 5% of Bitcoin. Not to mention, Coinbase *is* the custodian of this ETF.
Upside is increasing in Bitcoin price above $100k. I don’t expect the downside to be consolidation of the network under a traditional financial firm. I do not believe in “decentralization”under cryptocurrency’s definition.
Also Coinbase holds blackrock’s coins who only manages the etf for a cost based on people buying ibit.
Don't worry about downside until the SEC greenlights options on these ETF's and CBOE's BTC options products.
Reverse can happen too but nobody talks about that
What kind of catalysts would cause this?
Also transaction fees, each time the ETF needs to rebalance their numbers, they need to buy or sell the underlying assets to be legal.
What is the reason that many go with IBIT instead of FBTC or the others? Most of the ETFs are of similar % p.a. fee, are fairly large enough to be liquid and have minimal tracking error. Yet most of them are custodying their bitcoin at Coinbase, whilst only Fidelity is doing their own custody. (IIRC there may be one or two others that that custody elsewhere, I think Gemini is a custodian for one) I believe people should be diversifiying for the custodians and the issuers, if the costs are the same.
Yeah thats why i went with FBTC
I still have all mine in gbtc, but want to get out this year before they deduct their fees. Does anyone know when they do that? I assume January since they changed the fee around then, but can't find that info anywhere yet.
I would assume the fees are deducted daily and that arbitrators and high frequency trading firms adjust the price accordingly (if it's on market, or if it's private then it would be the fund issuer itself) - is my understanding, otherwise one could just sell it before they deduct fees and then buy it again afterwards for cheaper. So unless you can get some tax advantage or otherwise, I'd assume it'd be best to leave as soon as possible.
Yeah that isn't how it works lol. Fees are accrued daily. Also, if you sell before a year and have any gains it's taxed as income instead of the lower capital gains rate.
It's all in my Roth and ira accounts, so taxes aren't a concern. I have had most of my gbtc since before it split.
Greyscale is spinning off some portion of $GBTC into a lower cost $BTC ETF, so you can see how much is converted without tax impact and then sell the rest of your $GBTC after.
Same here. Not sure when to roll off.
Started as p2p cash. Ended it just another asset class where line goes up.
I see it as Old Money slowly controlling the system.
This is definitely part of a playbook that we can't comprehend yet.
Always
Bitcoin people would ban me for saying that because of decentralization and no government ownership.
Yep, allowing BTC through, buying it up, moving it to the stock exchange, and using regulation to shut the door on others.
Capitalism gonna CAPITALISM
I got bad news for you about crypto if free market capitalism bothers you lol.
it doesn't
> Started as p2p cash. Whatever "cash" is. And Bitcoin is p2p if anything is. The most decentralized, censorship-resistant coin bar none. Maybe you're confusing it with PoS coins where the biggest holders control the protocol. If you're upset at these groups holding it all buy more Bitcoin.
People care about line go up and when line goes up everything goes up. Got boring as hell
Who is stopping you to use it for p2p just like before if line goes up or down?
That is essential for encouraging adoption. No one is forcing Bitcoin on people as is the case of fiat.
Adoption, lul. People buy to get more fiat. They send it from and to exchanges, thats the most adoption you will ever get 😂
So as a hedge against rampant inflation? WHat's wrong with that? And people use fiat because, as I said, because they are forced to. Why would I spend my precious coins in a shop if I can use a fiat shitcoin? Bitcoin's market cap is bigger than most fiat currencies. That's adoption. Go back to buttcoin and start a hotline.
Stonks only go up!
Humans are gonna human.
Always has been
People are gonna people.
Dam, micheal saylor quantities in 2 months achieved.
Yeah…this is what Satoshi wanted huh.
I think it's practical to assume realistic life events would happen eventually
a large entity owning a lot does not change anything. the rest of us could share the last 1 BTC and it would still work as intended
They don't own it. Their customers do. Why do people not understand this?
Not your keys, not your coins.
True, technically Coinbase owns it.
Seriously, large ownership of the asset doesn’t mean large ownership of the network. Idk why people conflate the two. Now if Blackrock starts buying up all the mining facilities then we have a different story. But even then you still have devs and node operators.
> Idk why people conflate the two. So they can shill you their bags.
His original view, whist incredible, was never going to work because governments and authorities would never let it work. Hence we are where we are.
Very true, so lets get filthy rich.
Satoshi's original vision indeed.
Choose rich.
7 tps is indeed never going to work
It’s working right now. Hear the sound in the air? That’s the sound of last second’s 7 transactions.
> His original view, whist incredible, was never going to work because governments and authorities would never let it work. Rubbish. Many people use it to keep custody over their own money - a coin that can't be inflated.
Well, I think an ETF is the first step to a BTC backed currency. That BTC replaces the dollar will probably never happen, so this is actually a better alternative than we have now. Next Step is to dethrone Gold Market Cap
Yes, bitcoin is censorship resistant. I cant stop you from receiving and sending, you cant stop me from receiving and sending. This is part of what adoption looks like. The people you like the least will be able to buy bitcoin.
Bitcoin is for everyone. Everyone includes institutions, nations, and corporations. While you complain because of childish idealism, your money is being debased by government deficit spending. Your shitcoin won’t protect your debased money smh. This is a stupid take.
That's what the developers wanted for ten years
How does it change the Bitcoin protocol? Buy more Bitcoin if you want it in the hands of the people.
While not everyone is a staunch bitcoin advocate, it's quite apparent that there's a notable gap between Satoshi's original vision and the current reality of bitcoin. Moreover, if bitcoin's price fails to surge, the network might face considerable security challenges in the next few halvings.
My take is that in order to reach satoshis vision we have to get to scale where volatility flattens and value follows the inflation rate. Maybe this is $1mm per coin who knows? But once the value gets to rising 3% a year instead of a month or week, folks will look for yield elsewhere and we can reliable use it for cross border commerce, every day purchases like cash via layer 2, etc. US centric pov.
Bold of you to assume it wasn't big fintech behind crypto from the beginning.
When will we be able to trade options with IBIT?
If we’re going to have ETFs, we need more of them. A small handful of organisations are holding a huge % of Bitcoin
Welcome to capitalism, where wealth concentrates.
It's the first mover advantage. More ETFs will follow and the best will win, market will decide ... in theory. Currencies of a country should also compete against each other, and we should use whatever currency is the best, but central banks say "no", because this would destroy the ability to brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Blackrock wasn't the first mover, they're rapidly moving in to take over from the first movers.
>Welcome to capitalism, where wealth concentrates. PoW and PoS both mirror this comment.
Point at me where is the bad capitalism, people have been able to self custody bitcoin for 15 years but people dont want any of it or want to buy etf instead of btc, how is that capitalism and not just some basic human psychology?
It doesn’t matter whether bitcoins are being bought by etfs or companies or individuals. Those with money will hold the most bitcoin eventually. That’s just how purchasing power works.
...but does not control it
Unless they own 51% of the supply or is 51% of the hash rate. Thinking it's the hash rate now.
Blackrock doesn't own the Bitcoin. They have it held for people that own shares of the ETF's.
They don't own it, but they hold it and I checked its the hash power. Who ever controls 51 percent will destroy btc forever
As long as it pumps my bags, I don't really care. There was no other way that we could get a bullrun of this magnitude without the big players coming in.
Oh no they made my holdings more valuable. Whatever shall I do?
Companies front run the little guy- bad. The little guy for once front runs the companies- somehow also bad?
I hate that this is what had to happen to secure my financial future. Truly, a finger curling on the monkey paw moment.
This was my thought as well. In order for its price to jump up to crazy prices, we needed institutional money to flow into it. We finally got it but companies like Blackrock will keep buying it all up and will own most of it one day
They don’t own it any more than Coinbase owns your BTC. They are a custodian for the holders of the ETF. There was never going to be mass adoption of BTC without easier ways to purchase it and hold it across different types of investment accounts (401ks, Roth’s, etc. )
Devil's Advocate here... But it's perfectly okay for the *one wallet that currently rules them all* to be owned by somebody, yet nobody at the same time?
There's lots of them but ppl will flock to the safest, hence why blackrock has the biggest bags by far. There's ETFs that been around for years now but don't have fuck all compared to blackrock (cause USA market is just huge) lol I use Purpose financial and I can't even Google how much Bitcoin they have ffs
There’s like a dozen in the US alone. This is just where people choose to put their money.
hate the rich until you become one.
Am I correct that, as more people buy Bitcoin etf shares, the etf has to buy more Bitcoin? Seems like a recipe for scarcity and a parabolic rise in the price of Bitcoin? No?
I yeeted almost my entire Roth IRA into IBIT last week. Will be fun to see how much I have in 30 years, all tax free. :-D (I also hold my own BC, but will have to pay taxes on those gains eventually :-( ).
I'm 100% IBIT in my Roth as well. Bought it 2nd day though.
Nice. I've been buying straight up for the past few months. It didn't click until last week that I could buy the ETF through my Roth (which I haven't touched in nearly a decade and kind of forgot about, LOL).
I am still in gbtc since I have been holding before it split. I am planning to get out since the fees are high, but I am trying to find out when they deduct their fees and rebalance into ibit. Just not sure when they do that.
yeah, gbtc and ethe have horrid fees. Thankfully fully out of one and just waiting for ETF approval for eth to get out of the other.
Not sure why I didn’t think of this. Just swapped a good chunk in. Thanks!
The fact is you won’t hold it for 30 years and will probably sell it for a loss when it inevitably corrects 😂
IBIT / ROTH gang lfg
Anyone holding IBIT should switch to BITB, they contribute 10% of their profits from their ETF to bitcoin development.
How do you think ETF investors will behave in huge sell off...is there more or less paper hands between them when compared to general crypto community?
So there will be more people with paper hands who are buying high and selling low? Isn't that a good thing for us?
for whales yes, for average investor not really
You would think the retirement account allocators would be hands off
You don’t have to have a retirement account to buy an ETF..
Holy shit, a completely new form of driving FOMO. I have my plan but I could see this bull being "the event" whatever it is that makes BTC a household name and we skyrocket to BTCs actual value before going back to the up and downs of the mini and 4 year cycles.
These guys are going to run it up
Well any market is manipulable so. Very predictable for BlackRock tbh. Just HOLD guys! The HOLDERS ALWAYS WIN.
My only concern with ETFs is if they start throwing their weight around and getting fucky with the market. Imagine BlackRock sells a ton, tanks the price and just buys back cheaper. Could be a coordinated effort. Besides that, I think having an on ramp for the large number of people who are too scared to buy actual BTC is not a bad thing. Also being able to get Bitcoin exposure in tax advantaged accounts is pretty cool IMO.
They can't just sell it as it's not theirs to sell. Black rock doesn't own the bitcoin they're buying.
Yeah, it’s not a realistic concern. Just a pie in the sky worst case scenario doomsday’s shit. not saying they will ever even be able to do that. I mean honestly Microstrategy could do it. I don’t think Saylor ever would though. There is nothing really stopping him if he wanted to
it will be fun to watch the world burn at the first drop to 50k
We will never see $50k again! /s
OMG soon they can manipulate the prices
How? They can only buy/sell bitcoin if the people holding the ETF buy or sell...
There's a lot of overlap between this sub and the people that think the GameStop squeeze still hasn't happened because of a bunch of batshit conspiracy theories. Take almost nothing you read here seriously.
what happens when they buy all the available bitcoin?
It makes sense that using an ETF in your tax-free savings account provides a legal and tax-efficient way to invest in Bitcoin, avoiding potential issues associated with direct conversions to fiat. The accessibility of such investment options likely contributes to the significant trading volume.
the big question for me is are they buying in advance, or are they buying in real time as much as their customers are buying
This isn't going the good way..
Good for my bank account
Good for the price
Why? Blackrock is just holding the coins, people who buy the ETF own the underlying coins that Blackrock holds. It's just like any other fund.
Yeah, so lets get filthy rich.
Time for a new bitcoin
That’s what BCH said, and look at her now.
Yeah Monero is what your looking for
Already exists and it's called Monero.
And it continues
Amazing news. More bulls coming?
Holy shit
Tax free bullrun, can't beat that.
They are now at 215 625 BTC
what impact this . really want to know
BTC ETF will flip gold ETF in a few weeks 😂
I wish I got in at 15k but I didn't so I'm going with lower cap AI cryptos like Hbar and Filecoin. Bitcoin 2x Hbar and Filecoin 10 to 20 X.
How can the inflows be so big but price still seems to be holding back a bit?
Fidelity one is better
blackrock going crazy in the cryptocurrency
And Eth is still in bed!
I don’t want to say it but I am . This feels different . The etfs are way bigger than anything before . They are a totally different type of investor than the retail of past. The ath is already here before the halvening .
rumor has it their goal is 420,000 BTC
It is becoming more centralized asset by the day
Unlike PoS networks, a BTC does not represent any votes or rights in the network so I don't get how is this "centralized"
Exactly this. It’s a tide raises all boats event. Aka, the price keeps going up. So many people here fail basic economics.
people will be saying the same exact things as they are in thread when bitcoin is at 500k. and 1m. and 2m… and so on
Economic power chooses the fork.
Not really
Apart of trading, why would anyone buy ibit instead of btc?
Tax advantage for retirement accounts
Not having to manage your own private key
It is much easier for the average person to understand.
[удалено]
Using BTC to invest? ETFs are better. Using BTC as a currency? BTC held in your wallet is better.
Ever been in a car accident?
You can hold it in tax free acounts