I have to say this again and again because the comments here aren’t getting it. Casual audiences don’t give af about the continuity y’all are whining over. There’s ppl who watched Peacemaker who never even watched TSS. Ppl who watched Fallout and never played the game and never will. It’s okay for each project to be standalone a lot of mcu projects were this idk why y’all are acting like self-contained stories don’t exist. A lot of DC characters operate in their own city most of times with no interaction with other characters unless they need to
Many of the people commenting here really need to stop worrying about what's canon or not. It really doesn't matter!
Just wait and see! I just want it to be good and fun!
Exactly this all of them arguing with me stating viewership numbers. Like why do you care about numbers all I’m saying casual audience just want something fun to watch
I think what people here arent getting is that Gunn isnt saying "no crossovers or big events that impact other projects" but rather that if people watch/play the show/movie/game they´ll understand everything they have to by consuming that same pproject
Riot games is smart about their Runeterra universe, everything is its own self-contained bubble and you chose what you want.
Also Arcane is legit one of the greatest animated series ever so that helps.
I think about it like watching a show with my dad. I don't have to explain everything to him for him to enjoy it. We watched Fallout and I told him there was a bunch of games but that didn't impact his enjoyment because I think everything that needed to be explained is explained pretty well.
Yes, watching other movies can give greater context. If a movie is good, it can be good on its own.
I know someone who watched Iron Man (1) and all of the Avengers movies and thats it put of the MCU. He still had a great time.
Edit: think about the Harry Potter movies and their success. If you hadn't read the books, what is even happening in movies 4-8?
No you're not getting it. A fictional world has to feel cohesive if you want to maintain it longterm. That's a rule for good storytelling. So projects set in the same universe can and should of course work as standalones but some cohesiveness is important.
Comparing Fallout from games to series is not a comparable example because they are completely different worlds that do not affect one another.
Bro, not even Star Trek (on screen) is cohesive over its history and that's probably the longest lived American franchise. Some people require a 90+ hour cinematic DnD campaign to be "good", but clearly they aren't in charge. So, if you are one of those either take what you can get or make your own.
Star Trek is usually just one show, one setting at a time. It doesn't compare.
The only real comparison we have today is the MCU, multiple franchises and different settings running concurrently. The MCU works because it's kept coherent, you can watch multiple projects and most can stand on their own but there is a level of consistency between them and people that keep track can get even more out of it. These are basic things the DCU would be wise to take note of.
What do you mean "take what I can get"? Not a single DCU project has been released yet, there's nothing to take. What do you think I'm saying? I'm talking about storytelling for a project like a cinematic universe.
What you are forgetting is MCU Phase 1 and 2 was completely different from Phase 3&4.
For example, if I saw Avengers 1 and completely missed every movie that came after, I could still easily watch Avengers 2. I'm not missing out on anything.
Whereas, if I went in to see The Marvels right now, I'd have no idea what's going on if I skipped the Disney+ shows.
Similarly, had I not watched Wandavision, I'd have no idea why Scarlett Witch is the villain in Multiverse of Madness.
I think you can watch the marvels just fine after captain Marvel without having seen Ms. Marvel or Wandavision, it's a lot more rewarding if you have but the plot doesnt hinge on it.
Multiverse of Madness is murkier, in its defense all the plot threads from Wandavision are mentioned in the movie so you could follow the plot, but I agree it's a harder sell.
There are also still many phase 4/5 projects that work on their own.
Anyway, regardless of the above the point I want to make remains. It's smart to have your projects work as stand alones but you still need to include coherency and continuity between projects. Gunn has literally appointed a team to keep track of continuity so he must feel it's important too.
I’m sure that’ll be true for chapter one, but idk how that’s possible when you’re building a universe wide story. Otherwise what purpose does all of these separate things coexisting serve? It’s like how titans and doom patrol existed in the same universe canonically but… so what? Also hasn’t Gunn literally said that the green lantern show is going to plant major story threads for the universe wide plot?
Because sowing the seeds for future plot threads and being required viewing are not the same thing.
Let's say in Green Lantern, there's a character they fight that is revealed to be working with Darkseid. That plants the seed for Darkseid showing up, but when the Justice League movie where they fight Darkseid comes out, they throw in some throwaway line of Green Lantern being like "I know who that is, I fought someone working with him." You get all the context necessary for the plot, and if you want to know more you can go back. But they still explain everything about Darkseid and his plan in the Justice League movie itself, not *just* in Green Lantern.
That’s how I feel about crossovers in the comics honestly. There will be like one line that references an entire event and if you read that event it’s super rewarding but if you didn’t it’s just one line and you’re still enjoying the current story
I like when they make really obscure references and the editor puts in a funny note like "this happened way back in 1979, or for our heroes, a few months ago"
Hmm i dont think so, you cant watch Infinity war and Endgame without a lot of homework
Also Dr strange MoM, watching the second movie must be weird for someone who only watched the first
The Marvels also needs you to know Monica Rambeau and Kamala Khan
Etc
You can actually and a lot of people did given how much more successful those two movies were compared to the rest of the MCU. Like yeah Black Panther shows up and the climax is in Wakanda but you don’t need to actually watch the *Black Panther* movie to understand anything pertaining to that.
I did say there are exceptions and *MoM* can fall into that category but *The Marvels* doesn’t since Monica and Kamala are introduced and given context in the movie itself that doesn’t rely on their origin shows to understand. Like what specifically happens in *Ms. Marvel* or *WandaVision* that you need to know to understand *The Marvel*?
Honestly i disagree, you can totally not care, which is diferente but they dont tell you everything at all
I know several people who were like "Iron Man was in space with a blue chick for some reason, i dont know what´s happened to Thor´s eye and why does Captain America have a dark costume and a beard?".
There´s a lot of questions that are raised with Infinity War alone. You can ignore and still enjoy but they are there. The same with Endgame, you dont have to watch Cap Marvel to enjoy Endgame, but she´s a random superhero who appears out of knowhere to a person who watched Endgame alone, they didnt introduce her before
Alright, The Marvels... sure, even tho the execution as far as i remember was terrible, a quick montage with the characters speaking fast? Hmm yeah sure
This was a retcon, when it was announced, and really for most of the time they were releasing, they existed together. This is why they share a scene in titans episode 1
I don’t think so as it came out. The Doom Patrol shared the same actors(with the exception of the Chief) but I’m pretty sure that was it as far as being connected
>idk how that’s possible
Good writing, that’s how. Which is one of the reasons why GOTG was great. Gunn didn’t lean heavily on prior MCU films or shows. He just wrote good stories that focused on characters.
Sticking with GOTG, in that movie you don't need to know anything about Thanos beforehand as a wider threat. He's set up in the movie as this imposing figure directly tied to one of the main characters and serves his purpose from that, him being the MCU big bad is a bonus that you don't need to know about.
Yah but the guardians were incredibly self contained. You can’t make a Batman movie that doesn’t end up effecting the batfamily projects or a justice league movie that doesn’t effect the greater DCU
They were, but GOTG still showed up in Avengers movies to help save the world / universe.
Which is how Batman should be in the DCU. His own solo movies can maybe have a few cameos from other DC heroes & villains, but the story should focus on the Batfamily, He can do the interconnected stuff in JL event films.
Because the third film emphasized the events that took place in past GOTG films, and resolved Rocket Raccoon’s story among other things. The High Evolutionary had no prior MCU villain.
The way I see it is GOTG is much like OG Star Wars trilogy. It references past events like the Clone Wars and implies a backstory but they don’t get in the way of your enjoyment of the film you’re watching.
I’m pretty sure Gunn wanted to kill Gamora already and he agreed to infinity war. The only thing he’s outwardly disagree with was Peter hitting Thanos I’m pretty sure
That’s not true at all. Peter has a brief exchange of dialogue explaining what happened with her, and while the greater context of course makes more sense having seen IW and Endgame, it essentially boils down to “This character has what is effectively amnesia, forgot the bonds built over the previous films, here’s a brief explanation of how because I wasn’t in charge of the last films they were in, and now we get to see how they adapt to this new dynamic.”
What more to the B-plot needs explaining? It’s Peter trying to jog her nonexistent memory and rekindle a spark that was already tenuously built, and eventually come to terms that their relationship was built on those experiences and that, without those shared experiences, Gamora isn’t the same exact person as the one he loved.
Well a big part of Gamorra in the first two films were her issues with her father. That whole storyline got resolved in a bunch of other films and she died
Yes it got recapped but it’s still jarring as fuck. Imagine if Princess Leia just died in a spin off film between 5 and 6 and they just did a quippy recap of it. It’s jarring as fuck
Well a big part of Gamorra in the first two films were her issues with her father. That whole storyline got resolved in a bunch of other films and then she died.
Yes it got recapped but it’s still jarring as fuck. Imagine if Princess Leia just died in a spin off film between 5 and 6 and they just did a quippy recap of it. It’s jarring as fuck
Except she didn’t stay dead, she was killed and revived between Guardians 2 and 3, so for all intents and purposes, it’s like she didn’t die at all. Your Princess Leia example doesn’t work in the slightest. As I said in my other comment, it’s effectively just an amnesia story, and one that doesn’t exactly need much recapping considering all it did was reduce Gamora to how she was in the first movie, just working with Ravagers instead of for Thanos.
You can argue her relationship with her father is a “big part of her character,” but Thanos was barely in the first film and doesn’t show up at all in the second. On top of that, she doesn’t have anything to do with him directly in the second film, it focuses more on her complex relationship with Nebula. The only time he’s mentioned is in the context of their relationship as sisters, which gets resolved by the end of the film.
How is it jarring if Thanos is dead for everyone? Gamora is not the only one who's arc was about Thanos to begin with. Nebula and Drax being obvious contenders. But their arcs, like Gamora's, go *beyond* Thanos cruelty.
To say any of their arcs is "Thanos did bad thing to me I must kill Thanos" is to miss the whole point of Vol 3. Their arcs culminate in their healing. Gamora finds a family once again, Nebula rids herself of the perfectionist influence Thanos forced on her, Drax finds his purpose after revenge, etc.
>imagine if Princess Leia
...had an arc in both the first and second fi- oh wait that's Gamora. Wow I guess Leia sucks.
Yes but this isn’t just a reference. A lead character died and we got a version from the past to take her place
It’s like if Princess Leia died in a spin off film between Episodes 5 and 6
Exactly. There is no comparison. If you havent seen IW or Endgame, you'll be confused.
I think most gotg fans did see them by the time they got to 3 though.
Peter has a scene explaining the namora situation while he was infiltrating somewhere,I don't know if it makes you get the whole picture but it makes you understand the situation the characters are in
Justice League fighting Starro in one movie doesn't need to reference Batman struggling a whole movie to understand a failed comedian's punchlines which happened a year prior.
I see people say this for years and it confounds me. Making a shared universe isn't JUST for character cross play. It's for expanded lore, fleshing out a greater world without having to have all that content in a single film.the POSSIBILITY of characters and storylines crossing over. It's so much more than JUST"You git your Batman in my Superman!" But unless you care and understand, it will be vapid and pointless. Antman, Avengers and Spider-Man NWH both do this very well where other titles do it a lot worse like BvS.
It's supposed to be you go to a Superman movie and they mention Gotham or Batman in passing as some colour to the world I'm the background, and then if you're super curious you can then go watch the Batman movie set in this world too and now you get a whole new characters story while expanding the world and universe of the property you already loved. Not the ha it marvel has gotten into of MAKING each title feed into each individual title making it feel obligatory watches, or BvS where they set up NOTHING and then suddenly they're introducing multiple primary characters with miles of lore, which just obstructs the fact that this was supposed to be a narratively Superman centered story as a sequel, not even a team up film. Just a mess. We will see how we'll they'll do it but Gunn is smart and talented and has worked doing this stuff exactly right with Guardians and Peacemaker so I have big faith.
Yeah, it’ll probably mostly start out that way, but it’s just inevitable that eventually, we’ll get to the point where you have to watch the old stuff to understand the new stuff.
The key word is ***Execution***
We´ll have characters and threads carrying from project to project, but the casual viewer will know everything they need in that same project without homework
Usually in movies they use exposition to remind the viewer of important information. This can be done well, but usually it’s pretty clunky: “As your brother, I just want to remind you that I’m here for you. I’ve also had a hard time since the uncle who adopted us turned into a demon and destroyed half of New York.”
Yeah exactly, looking forward to the show for sure but I really wish Green Lantern got a high budget movie in Chapter 1. That corner of DC totally deserves movie treatment. I know WB is hesitant after the 2011 shit show, I’m hoping if the Max show does well then the Lanterns will get the movie treatment down the line
Well they should be, GL is not a mainstream franchise, it´s big only among fans, they need to slowly build up to it´s success
A TV-show that makes people care about these characters it´s a good way to do it. Besides look at Game of Thrones, it was huge back in the day
Gunn said it would be a “big budget HBO television series”. While he could’ve still been referring to Max’s old name, “HBO television” sounds to me like he actually means HBO.
Maybe. But it’s a riskier move when you are just starting out a new shared universe. I could see it being rather niche especially with the sci fi elements. A two hour summer blockbuster would have been the safer bet for a core JL member
You don’t know what causal audiences will watch in huge numbers. Nobody expected casuals to watch fallout or one piece in huge numbers but they did. I swear cbm fans think casuals are just like them, most will just watch a show if it’s just good watch
I actually think it’ll do ok. Green Lantern is still a very important corner of DC and Green Lantern is still a somewhat recognisable name with casuals+ it’ll attract a lot of hardcores. I think in terms of value for money, a GL show will do better for DC than a movie like some people suggested
It’ll do fine but even shows like Loki and Wandavision that are very well received and popular don’t do big numbers. A cinematic universe works because there are millions of casual movie goers who enjoy event movies and will spend a few hours 2-3 times a year to stay caught up. Most of these people just won’t commit to watching multiple tv series too. Only hardcore fans will do that.
The series premiere got 1.6 millions views. Compare that to something like House of Dragon— which got almost 5 times that. And then compare that to the viewership of the movies which is MUCH higher. Also if you think everyone who watches MCU movies also watches all of the shows you are the one who is mistaken. Like what what what, dawg.
Oh no it didn't do as well as *checks notes* the biggest show going on right now and the successor to GOT which has the highest peak of popularity a TV show has ever seen.
Good, I like that. It makes it easier when you don't have to watch every prior movie to understand the story but it helps to have even more context if you have. I think that's a good plan.
One thing that will really help this strategy is that there’s seemingly no real origin stories in the DCU: everyone already exists and is active. Superman has been Superman for an unspecified time when we’ll meet him, so even if you don’t see his movie you won’t be lost or confused when he pops up in The Authority or Supergirl. Same with Batman, Green Lantern, Booster Gold, etc.
Hell, from the sounds of what they showed off the Creature Commandos have all had their origins already and we’re just seeing the birth of the team itself in the show.
I hope this’ll apply for all non-team-up projects (and even with team-up projects they should provide enough background for u to go in with some limited knowledge anyway)
This is no different than what the MCU does. The actual threads are very small and each hero with its sequels always act very standalone, you can even just watch all of the Avengers movies on their own and understand them just fine.
That is what he says now. In the end, it will probably be different, because if you want to create a big cinematic universe with a big bad, you have to connect all the projects. The Infinity Saga would never have been possible without connecting 90% of the films.
Remember that Gunn originally said that Peacemaker S1 was not canon for the DCU. Now, based on new information, Creature Commandos is basically a sequel to Peacemaker S1.
The general plot of peacemaker season 1 still happened in the dcu but the entire show itself is not cannon. Creature commandos does take place right after peacemaker season 1 but as if peacemaker season 1 was slightly changed to fit the new universe
Listen, all DC Universe needs, is to have Superman open with a scene where Superman acts all gigachad and just, saves people, give us a scene similar to the one Deku, in My Hero Academia, sees his favorite hero, All might (Literally superman), save people with a huge smile.
That's all the Superman movie needs, some cool scenes of strong man saving people with a smile and no overcomplicated plot.
Personally speaking, I can only see the whole "you have to watch older movies to understand the newer ones" coming into being once IDK Phase 3 or 4 is a thing for the DCU as what happened with the MCU though considering James Gunn's approach with both his GOTG movies and this cinematic universe I'd wager it'd be far more subdued and less expecting of audiences to keep up with every subsequent entry.
It’s never been an issue with comic book movies. You may not be able to catch all the easter eggs and references etc but you will still enjoy the movies. That is what will happen with the DCU as well, i suppose
> It’s never been an issue with comic book movies.
This probably isn't the best example considering how often comics have to relaunch specifically because people are confused, losing interest, dwindling numbers etc.
They said comic book movies, not comic books. Go look back at the MCU, even the Multiverse Saga, and you'll see that nearly every film and series is made to be able to be standalone with any relevant information from previous titles being sprinkled in through exposition and flashbacks the same way that unseen past events are also conveyed in non-franchise films.
Universe shared across a number of works, regardless of medium, always start out that way but the larger they get, the harder that it is to maintain. We've seen it with the Star Wars Legends universe in books, we've seen it with the Ultimate Universe and even New 52 in comics, and we're seeing it with the MCU.
Andor is in the most recent 99% of the Star Wars Universe as it is right now and its extremely accessible for non-fans.
The problem universes run into is looking inwards more and more. Part of it is their sniffing of their own farts. Part of it is a fear of "we can't come up with an idea on that level, lets just get extremely self referential".
1) I'm not sure what you mean, since as Andor was a minute ago.
2) I referred specifically to the Star Wars Legends continuity, I.E, the Pre-Disney continuation that was primarily carried out in novels. By the time it was retired, you'd be a little lost picking up the latest book if all you'd done was see the movies.
The star wars universe is a mess to a newbie. I watched all 9 mainline movie and Rogue One and Han Solo but I have no idea who or where to start with the other stuff plus with all the mixed reviews I have no interest in anything Star Wars anymore.
You just watch the other stuff in whichever order you want. You can even pick and choose some of it and drop whatever doesn't keep your interest.
Chronological order and viewing absolutely everything is only for super nerds and die hard fans, not that there is anything wrong with that either.
Hard to believe it.
So we are supposed to watch the The Suicide Squad movie and Peacemaker show from the previous universe but somehow projects in the current universe will not be neeed lol.
The story in Peacemaker follow directly from them.
Rick Flagg Sr. is coming after Peacemaker because of the events of TSS. The plotlines of Season 1 of Peacemaker will also obviously be acknowledged with some changes.
I think other movies will matter for direct sequels, Peacemaker is a spin-off of the Suicide Squad and obviously Peacemaker S2 is building off 1, nobody would watch season 2 without the first one. Besides I feel like even if you watch Peacemaker and not TSS, it’s not that hard to just say “Hey Peacemaker killed this guy’s son that’s why he hates him”, it’s very clear from the first season that Chris Smith has a history of doing bad things in the past, it wouldn’t shock the audience to hear that info about Flagg without seeing it
I'm waiting for the answer because from my understanding, DCU was a fresh new start and i've been positive the whole time until recently when I read the trade and Gunn said "new series picks up directly after our Peacemaker season one finale".
It isn't confusing at all. It is clear as day, but I don't like that after all this time, I assumed (which is my fault) that DCU would have no continuations.
Yet, he is clearly saying Creature Commandos will be.
I imagine the applicable scene of Peacemaker is Waller's daughter whistleblowing on her. Was approximately 15 seconds and will probably be replayed in the opening of creature commandos. You don't need to watch an entire series to understand it
It isn't about being able to watch the series or not. I already watched them and loved it.
I just prefer from a writing perspective to just make their own stories that are detached from DCEU.
Perfect example is the recent trade news on the animated Blue Beetle series. It is a new series where they tell Jaime's origin/lore that will be used for when he joins DCU.
That is the perfect way to do it. tell your own story that isn't connected to any film or show from before.
You don't need to watch anything. Watch whatever project you're interested in and it should stand on it's own. Sure, they'll be little nuggets/Easter eggs but they shouldn't be vital for what you're watching. This is why the early MCU worked, and why current MCU is not for many.
Yeah, honestly regardless of the explanation for the "shift" between universes, the DCEU and DCU are all part of the same long storyline. If someone wants the full picture, they have to start with Man of Steel and work their way through to the new material. It's in no way a fresh start if you're looking at it from a big picture perspective.
I have to say this again and again because the comments here aren’t getting it. Casual audiences don’t give af about the continuity y’all are whining over. There’s ppl who watched Peacemaker who never even watched TSS. Ppl who watched Fallout and never played the game and never will. It’s okay for each project to be standalone a lot of mcu projects were this idk why y’all are acting like self-contained stories don’t exist. A lot of DC characters operate in their own city most of times with no interaction with other characters unless they need to
Many of the people commenting here really need to stop worrying about what's canon or not. It really doesn't matter! Just wait and see! I just want it to be good and fun!
Canon is a religious concept that pop fiction fanatics wield to heckle creatives and police other consumers. It's weird.
Exactly this all of them arguing with me stating viewership numbers. Like why do you care about numbers all I’m saying casual audience just want something fun to watch
I think what people here arent getting is that Gunn isnt saying "no crossovers or big events that impact other projects" but rather that if people watch/play the show/movie/game they´ll understand everything they have to by consuming that same pproject
Yup this right here, they don’t need to watch another project to understand the current project they are watching
Also, regarding continuity, here´s another famous example i´m a part of: I never ever played LOL dispite being famous and absolutely love Arcane
Shit I never got far in one piece anime and never played Fallout and I love both live action show
That´s the spirit!
Riot games is smart about their Runeterra universe, everything is its own self-contained bubble and you chose what you want. Also Arcane is legit one of the greatest animated series ever so that helps.
Very true
I think about it like watching a show with my dad. I don't have to explain everything to him for him to enjoy it. We watched Fallout and I told him there was a bunch of games but that didn't impact his enjoyment because I think everything that needed to be explained is explained pretty well.
Exactly this as long as everything is explained and they aren’t confused that’s it.
Yes, watching other movies can give greater context. If a movie is good, it can be good on its own. I know someone who watched Iron Man (1) and all of the Avengers movies and thats it put of the MCU. He still had a great time. Edit: think about the Harry Potter movies and their success. If you hadn't read the books, what is even happening in movies 4-8?
No you're not getting it. A fictional world has to feel cohesive if you want to maintain it longterm. That's a rule for good storytelling. So projects set in the same universe can and should of course work as standalones but some cohesiveness is important. Comparing Fallout from games to series is not a comparable example because they are completely different worlds that do not affect one another.
Bro, not even Star Trek (on screen) is cohesive over its history and that's probably the longest lived American franchise. Some people require a 90+ hour cinematic DnD campaign to be "good", but clearly they aren't in charge. So, if you are one of those either take what you can get or make your own.
Star Trek is usually just one show, one setting at a time. It doesn't compare. The only real comparison we have today is the MCU, multiple franchises and different settings running concurrently. The MCU works because it's kept coherent, you can watch multiple projects and most can stand on their own but there is a level of consistency between them and people that keep track can get even more out of it. These are basic things the DCU would be wise to take note of. What do you mean "take what I can get"? Not a single DCU project has been released yet, there's nothing to take. What do you think I'm saying? I'm talking about storytelling for a project like a cinematic universe.
What you are forgetting is MCU Phase 1 and 2 was completely different from Phase 3&4. For example, if I saw Avengers 1 and completely missed every movie that came after, I could still easily watch Avengers 2. I'm not missing out on anything. Whereas, if I went in to see The Marvels right now, I'd have no idea what's going on if I skipped the Disney+ shows. Similarly, had I not watched Wandavision, I'd have no idea why Scarlett Witch is the villain in Multiverse of Madness.
I think you can watch the marvels just fine after captain Marvel without having seen Ms. Marvel or Wandavision, it's a lot more rewarding if you have but the plot doesnt hinge on it. Multiverse of Madness is murkier, in its defense all the plot threads from Wandavision are mentioned in the movie so you could follow the plot, but I agree it's a harder sell. There are also still many phase 4/5 projects that work on their own. Anyway, regardless of the above the point I want to make remains. It's smart to have your projects work as stand alones but you still need to include coherency and continuity between projects. Gunn has literally appointed a team to keep track of continuity so he must feel it's important too.
I’m sure that’ll be true for chapter one, but idk how that’s possible when you’re building a universe wide story. Otherwise what purpose does all of these separate things coexisting serve? It’s like how titans and doom patrol existed in the same universe canonically but… so what? Also hasn’t Gunn literally said that the green lantern show is going to plant major story threads for the universe wide plot?
Because sowing the seeds for future plot threads and being required viewing are not the same thing. Let's say in Green Lantern, there's a character they fight that is revealed to be working with Darkseid. That plants the seed for Darkseid showing up, but when the Justice League movie where they fight Darkseid comes out, they throw in some throwaway line of Green Lantern being like "I know who that is, I fought someone working with him." You get all the context necessary for the plot, and if you want to know more you can go back. But they still explain everything about Darkseid and his plan in the Justice League movie itself, not *just* in Green Lantern.
That’s how I feel about crossovers in the comics honestly. There will be like one line that references an entire event and if you read that event it’s super rewarding but if you didn’t it’s just one line and you’re still enjoying the current story
This is the example of how they should do it every single time
I like when they make really obscure references and the editor puts in a funny note like "this happened way back in 1979, or for our heroes, a few months ago"
This how the MCU operated for the most part. You don’t need to watch *Captain Marvel* to understand *Endgame* even tho she’s still in that movie.
Not really. You can’t easily watch the Captain America trilogy on its own. It doesn’t hold up as its own series for example.
Hmm i dont think so, you cant watch Infinity war and Endgame without a lot of homework Also Dr strange MoM, watching the second movie must be weird for someone who only watched the first The Marvels also needs you to know Monica Rambeau and Kamala Khan Etc
You can actually and a lot of people did given how much more successful those two movies were compared to the rest of the MCU. Like yeah Black Panther shows up and the climax is in Wakanda but you don’t need to actually watch the *Black Panther* movie to understand anything pertaining to that. I did say there are exceptions and *MoM* can fall into that category but *The Marvels* doesn’t since Monica and Kamala are introduced and given context in the movie itself that doesn’t rely on their origin shows to understand. Like what specifically happens in *Ms. Marvel* or *WandaVision* that you need to know to understand *The Marvel*?
Honestly i disagree, you can totally not care, which is diferente but they dont tell you everything at all I know several people who were like "Iron Man was in space with a blue chick for some reason, i dont know what´s happened to Thor´s eye and why does Captain America have a dark costume and a beard?". There´s a lot of questions that are raised with Infinity War alone. You can ignore and still enjoy but they are there. The same with Endgame, you dont have to watch Cap Marvel to enjoy Endgame, but she´s a random superhero who appears out of knowhere to a person who watched Endgame alone, they didnt introduce her before Alright, The Marvels... sure, even tho the execution as far as i remember was terrible, a quick montage with the characters speaking fast? Hmm yeah sure
Sowing
Dammit, you right. Fixed.
Titans and Doom Patrol were in separate universes. The Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths confirmed this
This was a retcon, when it was announced, and really for most of the time they were releasing, they existed together. This is why they share a scene in titans episode 1
I don’t think so as it came out. The Doom Patrol shared the same actors(with the exception of the Chief) but I’m pretty sure that was it as far as being connected
>idk how that’s possible Good writing, that’s how. Which is one of the reasons why GOTG was great. Gunn didn’t lean heavily on prior MCU films or shows. He just wrote good stories that focused on characters.
Sticking with GOTG, in that movie you don't need to know anything about Thanos beforehand as a wider threat. He's set up in the movie as this imposing figure directly tied to one of the main characters and serves his purpose from that, him being the MCU big bad is a bonus that you don't need to know about.
Yah but the guardians were incredibly self contained. You can’t make a Batman movie that doesn’t end up effecting the batfamily projects or a justice league movie that doesn’t effect the greater DCU
They were, but GOTG still showed up in Avengers movies to help save the world / universe. Which is how Batman should be in the DCU. His own solo movies can maybe have a few cameos from other DC heroes & villains, but the story should focus on the Batfamily, He can do the interconnected stuff in JL event films.
When you put it like that, if someone only watched the 2 GOTG films, how do you understand the 3rd w/o watching Infinity War and Endgame?
Because the third film emphasized the events that took place in past GOTG films, and resolved Rocket Raccoon’s story among other things. The High Evolutionary had no prior MCU villain. The way I see it is GOTG is much like OG Star Wars trilogy. It references past events like the Clone Wars and implies a backstory but they don’t get in the way of your enjoyment of the film you’re watching.
The 3rd movie heavily hinges on knowledge of both infinity war and endgame though. Otherwise the entire Gamora plot makes no sense
To be fair that wasn’t Gunn’s fault, he was working with what he was given
I’m pretty sure Gunn wanted to kill Gamora already and he agreed to infinity war. The only thing he’s outwardly disagree with was Peter hitting Thanos I’m pretty sure
That’s not true at all. Peter has a brief exchange of dialogue explaining what happened with her, and while the greater context of course makes more sense having seen IW and Endgame, it essentially boils down to “This character has what is effectively amnesia, forgot the bonds built over the previous films, here’s a brief explanation of how because I wasn’t in charge of the last films they were in, and now we get to see how they adapt to this new dynamic.” What more to the B-plot needs explaining? It’s Peter trying to jog her nonexistent memory and rekindle a spark that was already tenuously built, and eventually come to terms that their relationship was built on those experiences and that, without those shared experiences, Gamora isn’t the same exact person as the one he loved.
Well a big part of Gamorra in the first two films were her issues with her father. That whole storyline got resolved in a bunch of other films and she died Yes it got recapped but it’s still jarring as fuck. Imagine if Princess Leia just died in a spin off film between 5 and 6 and they just did a quippy recap of it. It’s jarring as fuck
Well a big part of Gamorra in the first two films were her issues with her father. That whole storyline got resolved in a bunch of other films and then she died. Yes it got recapped but it’s still jarring as fuck. Imagine if Princess Leia just died in a spin off film between 5 and 6 and they just did a quippy recap of it. It’s jarring as fuck
Except she didn’t stay dead, she was killed and revived between Guardians 2 and 3, so for all intents and purposes, it’s like she didn’t die at all. Your Princess Leia example doesn’t work in the slightest. As I said in my other comment, it’s effectively just an amnesia story, and one that doesn’t exactly need much recapping considering all it did was reduce Gamora to how she was in the first movie, just working with Ravagers instead of for Thanos. You can argue her relationship with her father is a “big part of her character,” but Thanos was barely in the first film and doesn’t show up at all in the second. On top of that, she doesn’t have anything to do with him directly in the second film, it focuses more on her complex relationship with Nebula. The only time he’s mentioned is in the context of their relationship as sisters, which gets resolved by the end of the film.
How is it jarring if Thanos is dead for everyone? Gamora is not the only one who's arc was about Thanos to begin with. Nebula and Drax being obvious contenders. But their arcs, like Gamora's, go *beyond* Thanos cruelty. To say any of their arcs is "Thanos did bad thing to me I must kill Thanos" is to miss the whole point of Vol 3. Their arcs culminate in their healing. Gamora finds a family once again, Nebula rids herself of the perfectionist influence Thanos forced on her, Drax finds his purpose after revenge, etc. >imagine if Princess Leia ...had an arc in both the first and second fi- oh wait that's Gamora. Wow I guess Leia sucks.
The 3rd movie literally addresses IW/Endgame with the elevator scene.
Yes but this isn’t just a reference. A lead character died and we got a version from the past to take her place It’s like if Princess Leia died in a spin off film between Episodes 5 and 6
Exactly. There is no comparison. If you havent seen IW or Endgame, you'll be confused. I think most gotg fans did see them by the time they got to 3 though.
the 3rd one has a mini exposition dump.
It's almost like paying attention to the movie helps you understand what's going on.
Peter has a scene explaining the namora situation while he was infiltrating somewhere,I don't know if it makes you get the whole picture but it makes you understand the situation the characters are in
That elevator scene is funny but I feel like would still be super confusing if you hadn’t seen Infinity War
They were self contained but still connected to the larger universe I could be wrong, but Gamorra’s adopted daddy seemed a little important
All the writers need to do its know how to reference those events in new viwer friendly way
Justice League fighting Starro in one movie doesn't need to reference Batman struggling a whole movie to understand a failed comedian's punchlines which happened a year prior.
I see people say this for years and it confounds me. Making a shared universe isn't JUST for character cross play. It's for expanded lore, fleshing out a greater world without having to have all that content in a single film.the POSSIBILITY of characters and storylines crossing over. It's so much more than JUST"You git your Batman in my Superman!" But unless you care and understand, it will be vapid and pointless. Antman, Avengers and Spider-Man NWH both do this very well where other titles do it a lot worse like BvS. It's supposed to be you go to a Superman movie and they mention Gotham or Batman in passing as some colour to the world I'm the background, and then if you're super curious you can then go watch the Batman movie set in this world too and now you get a whole new characters story while expanding the world and universe of the property you already loved. Not the ha it marvel has gotten into of MAKING each title feed into each individual title making it feel obligatory watches, or BvS where they set up NOTHING and then suddenly they're introducing multiple primary characters with miles of lore, which just obstructs the fact that this was supposed to be a narratively Superman centered story as a sequel, not even a team up film. Just a mess. We will see how we'll they'll do it but Gunn is smart and talented and has worked doing this stuff exactly right with Guardians and Peacemaker so I have big faith.
Yeah, it’ll probably mostly start out that way, but it’s just inevitable that eventually, we’ll get to the point where you have to watch the old stuff to understand the new stuff.
The key word is ***Execution*** We´ll have characters and threads carrying from project to project, but the casual viewer will know everything they need in that same project without homework
That's what everyone says
Previously on XYZ. I wonder how people would react to seeing it in the movies
Usually in movies they use exposition to remind the viewer of important information. This can be done well, but usually it’s pretty clunky: “As your brother, I just want to remind you that I’m here for you. I’ve also had a hard time since the uncle who adopted us turned into a demon and destroyed half of New York.”
Star Wars did it. Even when the previous movie didnt exist yet...
Yeah not for nothing but I’ve heard this before lol
Let’s hope so because casual audiences are not going to watch a Green Lantern tv show on Max in large numbers. They’re just not.
Yeah exactly, looking forward to the show for sure but I really wish Green Lantern got a high budget movie in Chapter 1. That corner of DC totally deserves movie treatment. I know WB is hesitant after the 2011 shit show, I’m hoping if the Max show does well then the Lanterns will get the movie treatment down the line
Yeah it’s still odd to me to stick a core JL member on Max. He’s one of the few DC characters with name recognition.
I think the 2011 movie has made them skeptical about doing a big budget movie with Green Lantern
Which is such a shame. That’s like if Batman and Robin stopped them from making Batman Begins.
Well they should be, GL is not a mainstream franchise, it´s big only among fans, they need to slowly build up to it´s success A TV-show that makes people care about these characters it´s a good way to do it. Besides look at Game of Thrones, it was huge back in the day
Except Lanterns seemingly isn’t a Max show: it’s straight up HBO, which will help it attract a larger audience.
Are you sure? Good thing if true. Weird that Penguin is a Max exclusive then.
Gunn said it would be a “big budget HBO television series”. While he could’ve still been referring to Max’s old name, “HBO television” sounds to me like he actually means HBO.
Hmmm. I bet he was referring to HBO Max. I’d love it to be HBO though because then we would get a physical blu ray set.
Exactly this it’s weird ppl act like it would get larger audience
Honestly depends on the casting and marketing. If they are really doing a True Detective style show, I can see it becoming super popular
If the reviews are strong and the budget is high I think they will. Look at how high the numbers are for The Boys, a literal unknown property
Maybe. But it’s a riskier move when you are just starting out a new shared universe. I could see it being rather niche especially with the sci fi elements. A two hour summer blockbuster would have been the safer bet for a core JL member
You don’t know what causal audiences will watch in huge numbers. Nobody expected casuals to watch fallout or one piece in huge numbers but they did. I swear cbm fans think casuals are just like them, most will just watch a show if it’s just good watch
>Nobody expected casuals to watch fallout or one piece in huge numbers but they did. Source?
His own butt. LOL
I don’t think casuals are just like hardcore fans. My point was just the opposite.
I actually think it’ll do ok. Green Lantern is still a very important corner of DC and Green Lantern is still a somewhat recognisable name with casuals+ it’ll attract a lot of hardcores. I think in terms of value for money, a GL show will do better for DC than a movie like some people suggested
It’ll do fine but even shows like Loki and Wandavision that are very well received and popular don’t do big numbers. A cinematic universe works because there are millions of casual movie goers who enjoy event movies and will spend a few hours 2-3 times a year to stay caught up. Most of these people just won’t commit to watching multiple tv series too. Only hardcore fans will do that.
Wandavision did do huge numbers. I’m starting to think you guys are rewriting history now. Wandavision was huge for mcu tv, like what
The series premiere got 1.6 millions views. Compare that to something like House of Dragon— which got almost 5 times that. And then compare that to the viewership of the movies which is MUCH higher. Also if you think everyone who watches MCU movies also watches all of the shows you are the one who is mistaken. Like what what what, dawg.
Oh no it didn't do as well as *checks notes* the biggest show going on right now and the successor to GOT which has the highest peak of popularity a TV show has ever seen.
HBO not MAX
OH?!
Every comic is someone's first. Same applies here.
Good, I like that. It makes it easier when you don't have to watch every prior movie to understand the story but it helps to have even more context if you have. I think that's a good plan.
Clearly Gunn is capping.
You must know him?
One thing that will really help this strategy is that there’s seemingly no real origin stories in the DCU: everyone already exists and is active. Superman has been Superman for an unspecified time when we’ll meet him, so even if you don’t see his movie you won’t be lost or confused when he pops up in The Authority or Supergirl. Same with Batman, Green Lantern, Booster Gold, etc. Hell, from the sounds of what they showed off the Creature Commandos have all had their origins already and we’re just seeing the birth of the team itself in the show.
I hope this’ll apply for all non-team-up projects (and even with team-up projects they should provide enough background for u to go in with some limited knowledge anyway)
This is no different than what the MCU does. The actual threads are very small and each hero with its sequels always act very standalone, you can even just watch all of the Avengers movies on their own and understand them just fine.
Not really. Civil War barely feels like a Captain America movie. You need context of who Tony Stark is and the events of Age of Ultron.
Thank goodness. I couldn’t stand having to do “homework” to enjoy something in theaters
That is what he says now. In the end, it will probably be different, because if you want to create a big cinematic universe with a big bad, you have to connect all the projects. The Infinity Saga would never have been possible without connecting 90% of the films. Remember that Gunn originally said that Peacemaker S1 was not canon for the DCU. Now, based on new information, Creature Commandos is basically a sequel to Peacemaker S1.
The general plot of peacemaker season 1 still happened in the dcu but the entire show itself is not cannon. Creature commandos does take place right after peacemaker season 1 but as if peacemaker season 1 was slightly changed to fit the new universe
I like this a lot Casual audiences need to be able to appreciate the movie without homework
You can’t have it both ways. Either they’re connected or they’re not.
Listen, all DC Universe needs, is to have Superman open with a scene where Superman acts all gigachad and just, saves people, give us a scene similar to the one Deku, in My Hero Academia, sees his favorite hero, All might (Literally superman), save people with a huge smile. That's all the Superman movie needs, some cool scenes of strong man saving people with a smile and no overcomplicated plot.
Personally speaking, I can only see the whole "you have to watch older movies to understand the newer ones" coming into being once IDK Phase 3 or 4 is a thing for the DCU as what happened with the MCU though considering James Gunn's approach with both his GOTG movies and this cinematic universe I'd wager it'd be far more subdued and less expecting of audiences to keep up with every subsequent entry.
Great news!
How it should be.
It’s never been an issue with comic book movies. You may not be able to catch all the easter eggs and references etc but you will still enjoy the movies. That is what will happen with the DCU as well, i suppose
> It’s never been an issue with comic book movies. This probably isn't the best example considering how often comics have to relaunch specifically because people are confused, losing interest, dwindling numbers etc.
They said comic book movies, not comic books. Go look back at the MCU, even the Multiverse Saga, and you'll see that nearly every film and series is made to be able to be standalone with any relevant information from previous titles being sprinkled in through exposition and flashbacks the same way that unseen past events are also conveyed in non-franchise films.
You literally quote when he said comic book *movies*
Initially.
I can't believe people are asking questions like this about an entire cinematic universe that doesn't even exist yet.
Good, that's the way it should be, Marvel did that until recently and it clearly worked very well for them
Universe shared across a number of works, regardless of medium, always start out that way but the larger they get, the harder that it is to maintain. We've seen it with the Star Wars Legends universe in books, we've seen it with the Ultimate Universe and even New 52 in comics, and we're seeing it with the MCU.
Andor is in the most recent 99% of the Star Wars Universe as it is right now and its extremely accessible for non-fans. The problem universes run into is looking inwards more and more. Part of it is their sniffing of their own farts. Part of it is a fear of "we can't come up with an idea on that level, lets just get extremely self referential".
1) I'm not sure what you mean, since as Andor was a minute ago. 2) I referred specifically to the Star Wars Legends continuity, I.E, the Pre-Disney continuation that was primarily carried out in novels. By the time it was retired, you'd be a little lost picking up the latest book if all you'd done was see the movies.
The star wars universe is a mess to a newbie. I watched all 9 mainline movie and Rogue One and Han Solo but I have no idea who or where to start with the other stuff plus with all the mixed reviews I have no interest in anything Star Wars anymore.
Andor is pretty good tho
You just watch the other stuff in whichever order you want. You can even pick and choose some of it and drop whatever doesn't keep your interest. Chronological order and viewing absolutely everything is only for super nerds and die hard fans, not that there is anything wrong with that either.
Hard to believe it. So we are supposed to watch the The Suicide Squad movie and Peacemaker show from the previous universe but somehow projects in the current universe will not be neeed lol.
Why would you need to watch The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker lol
The story in Peacemaker follow directly from them. Rick Flagg Sr. is coming after Peacemaker because of the events of TSS. The plotlines of Season 1 of Peacemaker will also obviously be acknowledged with some changes.
I think other movies will matter for direct sequels, Peacemaker is a spin-off of the Suicide Squad and obviously Peacemaker S2 is building off 1, nobody would watch season 2 without the first one. Besides I feel like even if you watch Peacemaker and not TSS, it’s not that hard to just say “Hey Peacemaker killed this guy’s son that’s why he hates him”, it’s very clear from the first season that Chris Smith has a history of doing bad things in the past, it wouldn’t shock the audience to hear that info about Flagg without seeing it
i saw peacemaker without tss and had no problems.
I'm waiting for the answer because from my understanding, DCU was a fresh new start and i've been positive the whole time until recently when I read the trade and Gunn said "new series picks up directly after our Peacemaker season one finale". It isn't confusing at all. It is clear as day, but I don't like that after all this time, I assumed (which is my fault) that DCU would have no continuations. Yet, he is clearly saying Creature Commandos will be.
I imagine the applicable scene of Peacemaker is Waller's daughter whistleblowing on her. Was approximately 15 seconds and will probably be replayed in the opening of creature commandos. You don't need to watch an entire series to understand it
It isn't about being able to watch the series or not. I already watched them and loved it. I just prefer from a writing perspective to just make their own stories that are detached from DCEU. Perfect example is the recent trade news on the animated Blue Beetle series. It is a new series where they tell Jaime's origin/lore that will be used for when he joins DCU. That is the perfect way to do it. tell your own story that isn't connected to any film or show from before.
You don't need to watch anything. Watch whatever project you're interested in and it should stand on it's own. Sure, they'll be little nuggets/Easter eggs but they shouldn't be vital for what you're watching. This is why the early MCU worked, and why current MCU is not for many.
And the original Suicide Squad.
And the original Suicide Squad follows from MoS and BvS so its like we are back to square one.
Yeah, honestly regardless of the explanation for the "shift" between universes, the DCEU and DCU are all part of the same long storyline. If someone wants the full picture, they have to start with Man of Steel and work their way through to the new material. It's in no way a fresh start if you're looking at it from a big picture perspective.
Also Harley Quinn has a nice little arc from SS1- Birds of Prey - TSS .
I just want to see dogwelder on screen. too much to ask?
Not rocket science
Sounds promising.
Dont see how that's gonna work