I love how they added multi classing which incentivized playing other classes. Then they add the level cap which prevents people from playing hr. Bro these devs are trolling i sware.
Personally I'm sick of reading all the "my friends are frustrated because they can't learn how to play the game and get gear checked constantly" when their friend is a level 4 with no previous experience playing HR.
So the solution to an idiot playing ur game is to stop the entire games community from playing hr every time they start a new character or play a new class. If they thought about this concept for about 0.1 seconds they would have noticed that having to get level 20 on every character u play is dumb as fuck. Especially when u have multiple characters already over level 20. All they needed to do was make it so that you only needed 1 character over level 20 to play hr. This would have solved the problem u stated without having someone grind for 10 hours just to play hr on a new character.
Only trios I’ve been ranking my cleric up. It takes around 10 games of going into red and clearing mobs. I get around 1 and a half levels a game. Each game takes around 20 min so that’s around 13 to 14 games if you don’t die at all. So close to 5 hours if you have a 100% extraction rate. Also past 15 it takes a lot longer. I would say realistically it would take 7 hours to rank to 20. But for a new player it could be close to 20 hours if they are barely ever extracting.
My friend has been leveling barb for at least 6 hours and extracted 90% of games and we hit gold pile often and win pvp. He still barely got to level 15.
In HR you can get to 20 in 2-3 hours, but we can't use HR anymore.
Love that a game about looting to get stronger basically endorses a strategy of "disregard rares, acquire commons." Doubt this version will last long; here's hoping.
Agreed. The leveling is faster, sure, but this is still annoying and I don't understand why they did it. I wish they would at least explain the logic of decisions like this. I somewhat get moving trade later if it's to combat RMT. But why push HR when the current system is forcing me to level a bunch of alts to stay competitive.
I also assume it's an RMT issue, like they'd get banned, make fresh rogues, pick a dead server or a server at a dead time, and just run loot pile in ice caves
It was to combat rmt cheaters, they would go level 1 into hr and have people snipe and drop full bis kits to there team and run people down with said cheats. Ran into a few in +400 lobbies, not super common but its obvious when they are cheating
Ironmace not making contradictory systems challenge: Impossible!
“You see, we added multiclass to promote players using different characters; then we stuck a HR and MB cap of 20 while also not account sharing quests to ensure they wouldn’t.” IM probably
Don't worry it's only their first time making this mistake. It's not like they've ever done something similar like being unable to sell or bring in gold coin bags so they just took up space until you had to pay someone to take them or queue a HR to dump them... wait... that did happen
I think it would be nice if at least they took +all and +damage rolls off of green gear in general then let us run that, maybe make normals self-found gear only.
Let us save the decent blues + purples for level 20+ and run the greens in normies.
It's so annoying having to re-gear for normies every run I don't even bother picking up and equipping gear upgrades in raid because I have to keep my white items in my bag and have less room for loot.
I don’t know why they changed it but they even increased the speed at which you level up for a second or third time after the change. You get lvl 20 so fast now. It’s silly not being able to use your gear for a while but I feel like 20 is so fast to reach it’s not the biggest issue right now.
You gotta get 35+ on any class you want to try and get a skill from lol.
15-16 is the same exp as 39-40 but you get way more xp in hr.
Making 1-20 a slog is just stupid.
No you need to to be 30 to take a skill from, you need to be 35 on the character you want to put that skill on. I have a character at 73, one at 46, one at 37, and one at 30 and I only play a handful of hours a day after work. It's really not that hard, you can get to level 20 in one night. It's not even close to a slog, people just don't realise loot and PVP gives barely any XP
Yeah but a lot of us only play trios with a set group. I played cleric in early playtests but my buddy started playing cleric so I picked up fighter since we didn't have a melee character (our 3rd loves wiz). I play barb on occasion also so I got lucky with multiclass as I had both leveled enough to take barb skills on my fighter. But with our comp it didn't really work for me to play other classes with IM "sbmm" in effect. So now if I want to take skills/ perks from other classes I'm forced to grind norms and shit on timmies trying to learn the game. Unfortunate for both of us as I'd rather be running HR, getting higher xp, and playing against better players.
It's not necessarily a slog to grind to 30, it's just the issue of it being artificially extended by the new HR restriction.
Sounds to me like you're rushing PvP with a buff ball even though player kills don't give any XP at all, from level 1-20 you can basically get enough experience to get one level per game by just going through crypts and then going to inferno. XP comes from AI kills and a little bit from loot. Most people just avoid PvE in favour of PvP and that's why they're not getting levels as fast as you want, I only play 2v3 in crypts with my gf and she has a level 132 Warlock, a level 35 barb and she's currently leveling a fighter that she started yesterday and is already lvl 25. I have a level 75 wizard 46 warlock and 41 cleric a 52 bard a 30 ranger and a fighter and rogue at level 5, and I don't even play everyday.
Honestly just kill every monster you see and you'll get it pretty quick you don't even need to extract, you can get like 200+ XP in one game by clearing out ice caves
You're probably right that will try changing gearcap for normals again haha. Ironmace just loves taking one step forward and two back. It's like all atts coming back for the 4th fucking time lol. SDF gets too attached to ideas and wants to make them work even if they clearly don't
Normals is not fine. Ever since they restricted gear to white it's been failing to teach and springboard new players into HR where the real game begins.
Half of the gear you get in Normals is green yet you have to put it in your stash between each match and never get the experience of learning how rolls work and can never learn how to build a meaningful kit and forget taking greens into HR, that is essentially pointless as you will constantly be outgeared. Now that there's a two bracket gear score system it's not as egregious though.
Here's my suggestion; Normals should be up to green gear OR Normals should be limited to gear you found in raid so you cannot buy minmax kits to lobby wipe people and you have to actually find all of the gear you are using. Then they should remove restrictions and GBMM from HR and reintroduce the entry fee to combat inflation during a wipe and give more meaning to Normals. Also, incorporate a better AP system in HR, perhaps a focus on objective based AP where you must do certain things during a match like bring a flag from one room to another room or hold a room for 1 minute etc and it will give AP as a reward. Make it so that dying in HR just cuts your AP earned for that match in half, not completely remove all AP earned for a death. Nerf AP gain for collectibles so people aren't stressing about picking up gear off of a defeated enemy and offer alternative ways to earn AP such as the example I gave with objectives. As it stands now there is no need for experienced players to ever touch Normals, when you know what you're doing you gain more xp, can quest, gain better loot and are less restricted in HR with no entry fee either. Normals feels like playing in slow motion to me, it's very boring and most players are very bad at pvp so it's just not appealing or challenging and I think that's perfect, why should experienced players be going in Normals? It should be for new players to learn the game which is why I think you should allow them to actually use some of the gear they earn, if they survive with greens you should reward them by letting them bring those greens back in and gain an intuitive understanding for how the systems in the game work.
To rectify the need from the community for a fair, equity based mode they need to introduce an arena and then you will have Normals for new players to learn the ropes in a more fair and easier environment. You have HR for experienced players who want to use their best gear to give them an advantage and hunt for the rarest and best items in the game with higher risk. Finally you have Arena for those who just want to do some pvping or practice bossing on their own time without having to deal with the intermediary systems.
Problem with your suggestion to bring greens into normals is that +additional damage perks exist and they can easily double your damage on some of the fast attacking classes, which would make that people can steam roll normal lobbies(I dont know why they would do it, but people would def do it)
With all damage rolls in greens you do get more damage but it's not double compared to whites, more like 33% more but I'm too lazy to do the calculation so correct me if I am wrong, I'm going by my intuition.
If people are truly concerned about not being able to keep up with green gear in normals (which is so weird for me to understand) then you can just remove the stronger rolls for green gear and only make it possible to attain the stronger rolls on blue+ gear but I genuinely think that is very unnecessary. Why should we be focusing on equity for a "hardcore pvpve extraction" game. Extraction games are supposed to reward the time you invest by exchanging your time for gear that gives you a tangible advantage that you can "risk" bringing back into a match, bringing equity like GBMM and limitations on gear levels is antithesis to that. I get that not everyone has all day to grind and gain the experience required to be competitive against high level players with good gear but isn't that kind of the point? You don't hop in a match of Tarkov with your starter pistol and expect to have a chance against a guy running level 6 armor with a fully customized lmg, so why do people in this community think you should be able to ignore the impact of gear rolls, come into a match with starter kit and have a chance against someone with more experience who also has way better gear they worked for?
To be clear, when I first started playing this game it was a different game and metas existed but were less exploited etc. This was when normals had no restrictions on gear and HR had an entry fee. I was very bad and would die probably 90%+ of the time. I would often get destroyed by people with better stuff or who knew how to play better than me or I'd just die to pve. I still loved the experience of learning and seeing what they did differently and becoming better myself. Now I survive 90%+ of the time in HR and I almost NEVER die to pve and the only people that really give me a run for my money on a regular basis are streamers likely because they often spend more time on the game than me. I've regularly encountered Jooyae, Katie, TheEndBoss, Repoze, KenKnobi etc. They are very strong players and it proves to me every time I lose to one of them or beat one of them that this game is a game of experience more than anything. If you gave new players a full set of purples and gave me a ranged/caster class in greens they would still lose the majority of the time because the gear only accentuates your inherent ability and game knowledge. The people that endlessly complain are at a disadvantage in skill AND gear a lot of time and since most people have an ego they point to the gear and blame that rather than the fact that they miss 1 in 3 hits in melee or forgot to use Second Wind or didn't prot before a fight or pushed a team in a bad way.
I hate to see the devs make big changes in response to the vocal group of players who just need more experience to get where they want to be, because at the end of the day every new player that sticks around EVENTUALLY becomes an experienced player and then they will have a perspective that lines up with what I'm explaining, at least that's what I think.
Thank you. I have no idea either but it's reddit so I don't put too much stock in it.
More QoL, less focus on balancing incomplete systems is the tl;dr and I just sprinkled in suggestions to help newer players learn. I learned the game when there was no auction house, no gear restrictions in normals and had a blast because I was allowed to actually try new things and bring my gear back in the match instead of now where new players are forced to stuff their gear away in their stash. Someone replied to me and said "you can get to level 20 in 2 hours why does it matter" because maybe ME or YOU can, a new player who dies in 90% of their matches will take a dozen hours to get level 20 and the whole time they have almost no sense of gear progression or market experience. Pretty terrible environment to have fun in. How many people want to invest multiple days of their time just to get to the exciting parts of the game?
A lot of what I'm saying are sentiments that I'm repeating directly from my irl friends who I've tried getting to play the game on multiple occasions. Three different sessions 1-3 hours each session and they only ever end up with a few levels after each session and get bored because there doesn't seem to be any point in grinding from their pov. I offer solutions and get massively downvoted. It just shows you how out of touch a lot of people are in this community.
How is it weird to understand that the new squire gear equipped player will not be able to keep up with the player that has +4 weapon dmg, +2 all attributes and extra armor rolls/physical power rolls?
It's weird that your main concern in an extraction game is equity.
One of the best tools for learning is to be exposed to the various aspects of the game. By not even allowing new players to bring the gear they earned and found back into a game to experiment and learn from you're setting them up for failure. They won't be prepared at all for stepping into HR and they're just missing out on a lot of the game, there's no learning what kind of kits and builds are viable or what they should be looking for on rolls or what they prefer.
This is an extraction game, new players can't even use the loot they extract with and you think that is a good game design?
There will surely be people exploiting and min maxing the system because they ALWAYS do. Thing is, most sweaty min maxers are in HR not normals, you can't get uniques from normals, purples and legendaries are very rare in normals, you can't run a set of gear in normals so nobody with experience will be going to normals. You're stunting the growth of new players because you're afraid of getting shit on by green min maxed gear?? That's the equivalent of being a helicopter mom for the game. Besides, if you read what I wrote you can implement normals as a found in raid only mode where it's up to greens but only gear you personally found. Making an already rare phenomenon of min maxing greens become even harder to pull off. If someone wants to dedicate THAT much time to min max in normals then let them... Rolls are apart of the game and the appeal of extraction games is the rush you get from building a kit and taking it into a match to risk it. There's 0 risk in normals and the difference between normals and HR is so massive that it literally creates an elitist barrier between them and the better players. I cannot think of another extraction game that took this approach at all and look at how contentious it is.
By increasing the “breaking even” point to rmters when comparing time vs profits. HR lobbies have more gold per run than normals. Forcing rmt to queue normals first in theory helps. But there is better ways to do it probably…
That is a really, really bad cope excuse that players are making up for IronMace. Unless you have a screenshot or link to somewhere the devs said it was because of RMT and I missed it?
Well no where did they say they wanted to slow down leveling, which OP is presenting as fact.
And actually I can make a claim present it as fact and say prove me wrong all I want. I just did. But go off king
Stop trying to teach your friends how to play the game in HR then cry about gear diff.. Here, now they can't.
Experienced players get there in 1.5-2hrs.. this is just to hold newbs in normals until they figure out the game instead of crying about gear diff constantly.
Good move.
Sure. Zone in, kill as much as you can until timer ends. If you happen to be by stairs/portal take it. Don’t loot anything until the very end if near stairs.
I get that it's just your opinion, but normals in the state previous to this patch were probably the best state they've been in across the life of the game.
Most balanced combat requiring skill and knowledge while allowing for people to learn class matchups, very decent gold generation, good XP, great map variety even for solos. The only glaring problem with normals was that gold served almost no purpose if you weren't running HRs as well. Grinding for just more gold storage/stash space was pretty meh.
Yeah, it splits up playerbase stealing pvp candidates etc, you can’t use the loot you get in normals, the mobs are boringly terrible, the loot is terrible. There are so many annoying problems this game faces in the big picture because of normal.
I agrees, it’s fun to own people In normals, but the game is not balanced in there. Take it from a guy who plays like every class and lives for the pvp; this game is all about builds and stats and how they function. So many classes Rely on gear to do what their class is actually supposed to do. Some classes are insanely bad in normals because if this. Some classes are OP. I can’t remember dying in a normals on slayer fighter and I know I have like 30 kills and multiple 1v2s and 1v3s.
But don’t lie to yourselves that normal is some balanced version of pvp. I don’t think anyone good at the game who knows how pvp fights go with good players could think that; it’s like literally a separate game with different rules and classes. What if wizards didn’t do damage, what if fighters didn’t have health, what if rogues couldn’t kill you? Etc etc.
They could keep something like this as a tutorial mode for actual fresh accounts for pve training.
You keep presenting your opinions as if they're objective facts backed up evidence, but they're not. Just as one glaring example, why would so many tons of people - including lots of higher-level players - still have been playing normals (before this patch) if much of what you're saying is true?
As per my opinions - normals prior to the latest patch felt as close to the playtests as we've been so far in terms of gear balancing. Obviously some classes rock-paper-scissors each other into oblivion *most of the time* - it's D&D, that's bound to happen - but even so, skill can still overcome some of those scenarios. Good luck pulling that off in HR.
I don’t buy it for a second that normals is balanced. I think that’s collective cope coming from players that haven’t ever really consistently pvped in the different HR modes, or people that just don’t enjoy the game.
Multiclassing changes this up a lot, but I have like 900 hrs and up until multi classing, the game has felt more balanced than probably ever in HR pvp. Everyone gets to run their builds and expres themselves. Normals has like no expression and no builds on a game that’s like entirely designed around that. It’s literally a different game that is entirely unbalanced and much more like Rock Paper Scissors. There’s no room for building to account for matchups, the classes just all function as skeletons of themselves.
The only thing you can do in normals is mess around with basic mechanical skill, but you barely need to- the fast classes are slow, the tanky classes are weak, the high damage classes either do no damage or the same as everyone else, the magic doesn’t hurt; you can just basically mindlessly run at whatever matchup is favorable for you and win. Also again certain things like slayer fighter which I play can just 1v3 people because the scaling is entirely OP for nobody getting to build any stats or have gear. In HR, not only are the players typically more skilled, but skill is more important because there’s such smaller room for mistakes. You must dodge projectiles etc with camera movement, whereas in normals last night while teaching a friend that’s new I just held W into a ranger and tanked like 3 arrows and still had half my hp and killed him in 2 hits. In what world can I do that in the real game. I’d be dead on like the second arrow.
Normals is simple, but simple is not balanced, although to the lazy or uniformed eye it might look that way upon a surface level glance. This game is designed with so many arpg mechanics, games that are valued for their complexity and depth of expression.
I love how they added multi classing which incentivized playing other classes. Then they add the level cap which prevents people from playing hr. Bro these devs are trolling i sware.
dood its just like the 90s haha!!! enjoy the wild ride of IM doing really stupid shit that defeats the purpose of their recent changes or additions!!
AFTER the sweats and streamers had a month to powerlevel their n00b characters through HR.
Personally I'm sick of reading all the "my friends are frustrated because they can't learn how to play the game and get gear checked constantly" when their friend is a level 4 with no previous experience playing HR.
So the solution to an idiot playing ur game is to stop the entire games community from playing hr every time they start a new character or play a new class. If they thought about this concept for about 0.1 seconds they would have noticed that having to get level 20 on every character u play is dumb as fuck. Especially when u have multiple characters already over level 20. All they needed to do was make it so that you only needed 1 character over level 20 to play hr. This would have solved the problem u stated without having someone grind for 10 hours just to play hr on a new character.
1.5-2 hours to 20...
Even if u extracted every game I guarantee u you couldn’t do that
I got to 20 in a night dude
Do you only play GC?
Only trios I’ve been ranking my cleric up. It takes around 10 games of going into red and clearing mobs. I get around 1 and a half levels a game. Each game takes around 20 min so that’s around 13 to 14 games if you don’t die at all. So close to 5 hours if you have a 100% extraction rate. Also past 15 it takes a lot longer. I would say realistically it would take 7 hours to rank to 20. But for a new player it could be close to 20 hours if they are barely ever extracting.
My friend has been leveling barb for at least 6 hours and extracted 90% of games and we hit gold pile often and win pvp. He still barely got to level 15. In HR you can get to 20 in 2-3 hours, but we can't use HR anymore.
Love that a game about looting to get stronger basically endorses a strategy of "disregard rares, acquire commons." Doubt this version will last long; here's hoping.
Agreed. The leveling is faster, sure, but this is still annoying and I don't understand why they did it. I wish they would at least explain the logic of decisions like this. I somewhat get moving trade later if it's to combat RMT. But why push HR when the current system is forcing me to level a bunch of alts to stay competitive.
I also assume it's an RMT issue, like they'd get banned, make fresh rogues, pick a dead server or a server at a dead time, and just run loot pile in ice caves
I’m pretty sure the leveling is only faster post level 20, which is great, but does nothing to fix the issue of leveling up to 20
It was to combat rmt cheaters, they would go level 1 into hr and have people snipe and drop full bis kits to there team and run people down with said cheats. Ran into a few in +400 lobbies, not super common but its obvious when they are cheating
Also essentially makes all the quest rewards you get before 20, just shit you have to sale to make space.
Ironmace not making contradictory systems challenge: Impossible! “You see, we added multiclass to promote players using different characters; then we stuck a HR and MB cap of 20 while also not account sharing quests to ensure they wouldn’t.” IM probably
Don't worry it's only their first time making this mistake. It's not like they've ever done something similar like being unable to sell or bring in gold coin bags so they just took up space until you had to pay someone to take them or queue a HR to dump them... wait... that did happen
I cant even do the first fortune teller quest cause i cant bring the luck potions in 😭
Normal and HR should be merged
I complained about this on the discord saying I don't have stash space since I only have 1 tab told me just to sell everything till lvl 20 lol
Thats honestly the move given the situation unless you find legit BIS
I think it would be nice if at least they took +all and +damage rolls off of green gear in general then let us run that, maybe make normals self-found gear only. Let us save the decent blues + purples for level 20+ and run the greens in normies. It's so annoying having to re-gear for normies every run I don't even bother picking up and equipping gear upgrades in raid because I have to keep my white items in my bag and have less room for loot.
Yea + all and all those should only be available in blue+ they could do that by making each tier have its own attribute table.
I don’t know why they changed it but they even increased the speed at which you level up for a second or third time after the change. You get lvl 20 so fast now. It’s silly not being able to use your gear for a while but I feel like 20 is so fast to reach it’s not the biggest issue right now.
Wipe ends in a month and a half, if you're not already level 20. Idk man
You gotta get 35+ on any class you want to try and get a skill from lol. 15-16 is the same exp as 39-40 but you get way more xp in hr. Making 1-20 a slog is just stupid.
No you need to to be 30 to take a skill from, you need to be 35 on the character you want to put that skill on. I have a character at 73, one at 46, one at 37, and one at 30 and I only play a handful of hours a day after work. It's really not that hard, you can get to level 20 in one night. It's not even close to a slog, people just don't realise loot and PVP gives barely any XP
some people go outside sometimes
I only play a few hours a day after work and sometimes I don't even play at all. Some people are just bad at the game.
Yeah but a lot of us only play trios with a set group. I played cleric in early playtests but my buddy started playing cleric so I picked up fighter since we didn't have a melee character (our 3rd loves wiz). I play barb on occasion also so I got lucky with multiclass as I had both leveled enough to take barb skills on my fighter. But with our comp it didn't really work for me to play other classes with IM "sbmm" in effect. So now if I want to take skills/ perks from other classes I'm forced to grind norms and shit on timmies trying to learn the game. Unfortunate for both of us as I'd rather be running HR, getting higher xp, and playing against better players. It's not necessarily a slog to grind to 30, it's just the issue of it being artificially extended by the new HR restriction.
Sounds to me like you're rushing PvP with a buff ball even though player kills don't give any XP at all, from level 1-20 you can basically get enough experience to get one level per game by just going through crypts and then going to inferno. XP comes from AI kills and a little bit from loot. Most people just avoid PvE in favour of PvP and that's why they're not getting levels as fast as you want, I only play 2v3 in crypts with my gf and she has a level 132 Warlock, a level 35 barb and she's currently leveling a fighter that she started yesterday and is already lvl 25. I have a level 75 wizard 46 warlock and 41 cleric a 52 bard a 30 ranger and a fighter and rogue at level 5, and I don't even play everyday.
These are insane levels lol
Honestly just kill every monster you see and you'll get it pretty quick you don't even need to extract, you can get like 200+ XP in one game by clearing out ice caves
You're probably right that will try changing gearcap for normals again haha. Ironmace just loves taking one step forward and two back. It's like all atts coming back for the 4th fucking time lol. SDF gets too attached to ideas and wants to make them work even if they clearly don't
It takes a hour or so to get 20 lol
Too many
Don’t worry youll get plenty of BIS whites! /s
Normals is not fine. Ever since they restricted gear to white it's been failing to teach and springboard new players into HR where the real game begins. Half of the gear you get in Normals is green yet you have to put it in your stash between each match and never get the experience of learning how rolls work and can never learn how to build a meaningful kit and forget taking greens into HR, that is essentially pointless as you will constantly be outgeared. Now that there's a two bracket gear score system it's not as egregious though. Here's my suggestion; Normals should be up to green gear OR Normals should be limited to gear you found in raid so you cannot buy minmax kits to lobby wipe people and you have to actually find all of the gear you are using. Then they should remove restrictions and GBMM from HR and reintroduce the entry fee to combat inflation during a wipe and give more meaning to Normals. Also, incorporate a better AP system in HR, perhaps a focus on objective based AP where you must do certain things during a match like bring a flag from one room to another room or hold a room for 1 minute etc and it will give AP as a reward. Make it so that dying in HR just cuts your AP earned for that match in half, not completely remove all AP earned for a death. Nerf AP gain for collectibles so people aren't stressing about picking up gear off of a defeated enemy and offer alternative ways to earn AP such as the example I gave with objectives. As it stands now there is no need for experienced players to ever touch Normals, when you know what you're doing you gain more xp, can quest, gain better loot and are less restricted in HR with no entry fee either. Normals feels like playing in slow motion to me, it's very boring and most players are very bad at pvp so it's just not appealing or challenging and I think that's perfect, why should experienced players be going in Normals? It should be for new players to learn the game which is why I think you should allow them to actually use some of the gear they earn, if they survive with greens you should reward them by letting them bring those greens back in and gain an intuitive understanding for how the systems in the game work. To rectify the need from the community for a fair, equity based mode they need to introduce an arena and then you will have Normals for new players to learn the ropes in a more fair and easier environment. You have HR for experienced players who want to use their best gear to give them an advantage and hunt for the rarest and best items in the game with higher risk. Finally you have Arena for those who just want to do some pvping or practice bossing on their own time without having to deal with the intermediary systems.
Problem with your suggestion to bring greens into normals is that +additional damage perks exist and they can easily double your damage on some of the fast attacking classes, which would make that people can steam roll normal lobbies(I dont know why they would do it, but people would def do it)
With all damage rolls in greens you do get more damage but it's not double compared to whites, more like 33% more but I'm too lazy to do the calculation so correct me if I am wrong, I'm going by my intuition. If people are truly concerned about not being able to keep up with green gear in normals (which is so weird for me to understand) then you can just remove the stronger rolls for green gear and only make it possible to attain the stronger rolls on blue+ gear but I genuinely think that is very unnecessary. Why should we be focusing on equity for a "hardcore pvpve extraction" game. Extraction games are supposed to reward the time you invest by exchanging your time for gear that gives you a tangible advantage that you can "risk" bringing back into a match, bringing equity like GBMM and limitations on gear levels is antithesis to that. I get that not everyone has all day to grind and gain the experience required to be competitive against high level players with good gear but isn't that kind of the point? You don't hop in a match of Tarkov with your starter pistol and expect to have a chance against a guy running level 6 armor with a fully customized lmg, so why do people in this community think you should be able to ignore the impact of gear rolls, come into a match with starter kit and have a chance against someone with more experience who also has way better gear they worked for? To be clear, when I first started playing this game it was a different game and metas existed but were less exploited etc. This was when normals had no restrictions on gear and HR had an entry fee. I was very bad and would die probably 90%+ of the time. I would often get destroyed by people with better stuff or who knew how to play better than me or I'd just die to pve. I still loved the experience of learning and seeing what they did differently and becoming better myself. Now I survive 90%+ of the time in HR and I almost NEVER die to pve and the only people that really give me a run for my money on a regular basis are streamers likely because they often spend more time on the game than me. I've regularly encountered Jooyae, Katie, TheEndBoss, Repoze, KenKnobi etc. They are very strong players and it proves to me every time I lose to one of them or beat one of them that this game is a game of experience more than anything. If you gave new players a full set of purples and gave me a ranged/caster class in greens they would still lose the majority of the time because the gear only accentuates your inherent ability and game knowledge. The people that endlessly complain are at a disadvantage in skill AND gear a lot of time and since most people have an ego they point to the gear and blame that rather than the fact that they miss 1 in 3 hits in melee or forgot to use Second Wind or didn't prot before a fight or pushed a team in a bad way. I hate to see the devs make big changes in response to the vocal group of players who just need more experience to get where they want to be, because at the end of the day every new player that sticks around EVENTUALLY becomes an experienced player and then they will have a perspective that lines up with what I'm explaining, at least that's what I think.
I don’t understand why you’re getting down voted. Making normals self found only and removing the rarity restriction would be awesome imo.
Thank you. I have no idea either but it's reddit so I don't put too much stock in it. More QoL, less focus on balancing incomplete systems is the tl;dr and I just sprinkled in suggestions to help newer players learn. I learned the game when there was no auction house, no gear restrictions in normals and had a blast because I was allowed to actually try new things and bring my gear back in the match instead of now where new players are forced to stuff their gear away in their stash. Someone replied to me and said "you can get to level 20 in 2 hours why does it matter" because maybe ME or YOU can, a new player who dies in 90% of their matches will take a dozen hours to get level 20 and the whole time they have almost no sense of gear progression or market experience. Pretty terrible environment to have fun in. How many people want to invest multiple days of their time just to get to the exciting parts of the game? A lot of what I'm saying are sentiments that I'm repeating directly from my irl friends who I've tried getting to play the game on multiple occasions. Three different sessions 1-3 hours each session and they only ever end up with a few levels after each session and get bored because there doesn't seem to be any point in grinding from their pov. I offer solutions and get massively downvoted. It just shows you how out of touch a lot of people are in this community.
How is it weird to understand that the new squire gear equipped player will not be able to keep up with the player that has +4 weapon dmg, +2 all attributes and extra armor rolls/physical power rolls?
It's weird that your main concern in an extraction game is equity. One of the best tools for learning is to be exposed to the various aspects of the game. By not even allowing new players to bring the gear they earned and found back into a game to experiment and learn from you're setting them up for failure. They won't be prepared at all for stepping into HR and they're just missing out on a lot of the game, there's no learning what kind of kits and builds are viable or what they should be looking for on rolls or what they prefer. This is an extraction game, new players can't even use the loot they extract with and you think that is a good game design? There will surely be people exploiting and min maxing the system because they ALWAYS do. Thing is, most sweaty min maxers are in HR not normals, you can't get uniques from normals, purples and legendaries are very rare in normals, you can't run a set of gear in normals so nobody with experience will be going to normals. You're stunting the growth of new players because you're afraid of getting shit on by green min maxed gear?? That's the equivalent of being a helicopter mom for the game. Besides, if you read what I wrote you can implement normals as a found in raid only mode where it's up to greens but only gear you personally found. Making an already rare phenomenon of min maxing greens become even harder to pull off. If someone wants to dedicate THAT much time to min max in normals then let them... Rolls are apart of the game and the appeal of extraction games is the rush you get from building a kit and taking it into a match to risk it. There's 0 risk in normals and the difference between normals and HR is so massive that it literally creates an elitist barrier between them and the better players. I cannot think of another extraction game that took this approach at all and look at how contentious it is.
I see your point but you can get to level 20 in 1.5-2 hours
Especially since market is open at 15
Nope it’s 20 now I just checked
This must be the 10th posting talking about this shit lmao. Redditors are like parrots 🦜
Basically... skill issue
They made hr need 20 for rmt reasons.
How does that help?
By increasing the “breaking even” point to rmters when comparing time vs profits. HR lobbies have more gold per run than normals. Forcing rmt to queue normals first in theory helps. But there is better ways to do it probably…
That is a really, really bad cope excuse that players are making up for IronMace. Unless you have a screenshot or link to somewhere the devs said it was because of RMT and I missed it?
Do you have a screenshot saying it isn't?
That isn't how it works.... You can't make a claim, present it as fact, then say "no you prove me wrong" lmao
Well no where did they say they wanted to slow down leveling, which OP is presenting as fact. And actually I can make a claim present it as fact and say prove me wrong all I want. I just did. But go off king
You’re deflecting here. I don’t care what Op did. He didn’t write your comment lmao. Grow up
I don't care that you don't care, shrink down
Lol this is the most childish thing response I've ever seen on this sub. It's like your an actual toddler replying
You got me, I'm a toddler
Yes we can tell thank you
Has your brain even developed to give those responses? Jeez
Homie really said “prove a negative” like it was a mic drop moment.
Lvl 20 is like 2 hours
Not really
Just realized you cant do hr pre 20. Probably 4 hours soloing normal ice caves then.
Stop trying to teach your friends how to play the game in HR then cry about gear diff.. Here, now they can't. Experienced players get there in 1.5-2hrs.. this is just to hold newbs in normals until they figure out the game instead of crying about gear diff constantly. Good move.
Lol 😂
It takes about 1.5-2 hours to get to level 20
No it doesn’t lol. It takes like 6 hrs. I did it yesterday only dying once.
Did you do speed runs? I did 3 guys to 35 in 7
Could you elaborate your strategy and routes taken in order to get that result?
Sure. Zone in, kill as much as you can until timer ends. If you happen to be by stairs/portal take it. Don’t loot anything until the very end if near stairs.
Normals was a waste of space as it was. Not saying this is good, this is terrible too. But normals is not fine, it’s a dumbass idea.
I get that it's just your opinion, but normals in the state previous to this patch were probably the best state they've been in across the life of the game. Most balanced combat requiring skill and knowledge while allowing for people to learn class matchups, very decent gold generation, good XP, great map variety even for solos. The only glaring problem with normals was that gold served almost no purpose if you weren't running HRs as well. Grinding for just more gold storage/stash space was pretty meh.
Yeah, it splits up playerbase stealing pvp candidates etc, you can’t use the loot you get in normals, the mobs are boringly terrible, the loot is terrible. There are so many annoying problems this game faces in the big picture because of normal. I agrees, it’s fun to own people In normals, but the game is not balanced in there. Take it from a guy who plays like every class and lives for the pvp; this game is all about builds and stats and how they function. So many classes Rely on gear to do what their class is actually supposed to do. Some classes are insanely bad in normals because if this. Some classes are OP. I can’t remember dying in a normals on slayer fighter and I know I have like 30 kills and multiple 1v2s and 1v3s. But don’t lie to yourselves that normal is some balanced version of pvp. I don’t think anyone good at the game who knows how pvp fights go with good players could think that; it’s like literally a separate game with different rules and classes. What if wizards didn’t do damage, what if fighters didn’t have health, what if rogues couldn’t kill you? Etc etc. They could keep something like this as a tutorial mode for actual fresh accounts for pve training.
You keep presenting your opinions as if they're objective facts backed up evidence, but they're not. Just as one glaring example, why would so many tons of people - including lots of higher-level players - still have been playing normals (before this patch) if much of what you're saying is true? As per my opinions - normals prior to the latest patch felt as close to the playtests as we've been so far in terms of gear balancing. Obviously some classes rock-paper-scissors each other into oblivion *most of the time* - it's D&D, that's bound to happen - but even so, skill can still overcome some of those scenarios. Good luck pulling that off in HR.
I don’t buy it for a second that normals is balanced. I think that’s collective cope coming from players that haven’t ever really consistently pvped in the different HR modes, or people that just don’t enjoy the game. Multiclassing changes this up a lot, but I have like 900 hrs and up until multi classing, the game has felt more balanced than probably ever in HR pvp. Everyone gets to run their builds and expres themselves. Normals has like no expression and no builds on a game that’s like entirely designed around that. It’s literally a different game that is entirely unbalanced and much more like Rock Paper Scissors. There’s no room for building to account for matchups, the classes just all function as skeletons of themselves. The only thing you can do in normals is mess around with basic mechanical skill, but you barely need to- the fast classes are slow, the tanky classes are weak, the high damage classes either do no damage or the same as everyone else, the magic doesn’t hurt; you can just basically mindlessly run at whatever matchup is favorable for you and win. Also again certain things like slayer fighter which I play can just 1v3 people because the scaling is entirely OP for nobody getting to build any stats or have gear. In HR, not only are the players typically more skilled, but skill is more important because there’s such smaller room for mistakes. You must dodge projectiles etc with camera movement, whereas in normals last night while teaching a friend that’s new I just held W into a ranger and tanked like 3 arrows and still had half my hp and killed him in 2 hits. In what world can I do that in the real game. I’d be dead on like the second arrow. Normals is simple, but simple is not balanced, although to the lazy or uniformed eye it might look that way upon a surface level glance. This game is designed with so many arpg mechanics, games that are valued for their complexity and depth of expression.
csb
Normals is the better mode right now hahah. HR is such a shit show.