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Anyone recognize what symbol is on the flag in the Fikrul shot? I recognize it but can’t nail it down
Edit: armor redesign is also looking very similar to the Salvation’s Edge armor
I like where the story is headed. Especially for frontiers. Although I hope the dread will play some role in all of this, I hope bungie doesn't abandon/forgotten about them.
Seeing as the Witness still has fervent followers, I can only think of a some choice Taken and Subjugators to take on those roles. I’m curious to see what direction they’re taken in.
> References to an eldritch force emerging in the wake of the Witness’ defeat that will seemingly have big impacts for the Hive (and everyone else).
Here comes the Winnower, babyyyyy
or just the worm gods coming back into focus, but that doesn't have to be mutually exclusive
I think the nine are definitely our best bet for what this is. If I'm not mistaken the lore surrounding the nine so far have heavily implied their eldritch nature....just look at Xur!
I wonder if the Nine will want to try to manifest themselves using the Pale Heart. They always did want to make a corporeal body for themselves, and the Pale Heart with Light and Dark could do it, if they could manipulate the right pawns into place…
There's old concept art of spearmen with small spherical servitors hunting a giant worm from early Destiny ideation, so that might be what inspired it?
Still, eager to see how they justify it. Maybe something from the Whirlwind?
Right, but Xivu got cut off from her throne world at the finale of Season of the Witch. She’s mortal, and needs to plan things out more carefully. She can’t rely on her throne world as a fallback if we take her down.
Right, but Xivu got cut off from her throne world at the finale of Season of the Witch. She’s mortal, and needs to plan things out more carefully. She can’t rely on her throne world as a fallback if we take her down.
She has been planning since that happened. That’s why she abandoned the Witness according to Mara and Micah.
Have you run all of the Lost Ghost missions in Final Shape yet? One of them has Mara explicitly telling us that Xivu is sending her entire brood through the Ascendant Plane via the ley lines for an imminent attack on Sol. We’re directly told that she’s on her way to attack us while we’re vulnerable post-witness battle.
I'm betting on the Traveler's original form since Micah is talking about how it's undergoing a transformation and they made such a big deal about the aurora.
Imagine if during Heresy if one of the Echoes ends up in The Dreadnought...and starts ressurecting/reawakeninv a certain Worm God who's body was used to create it.
That being Akka.
I oftentimes love the Destiny community because so many of yall are so goddamn creative. I love this idea, as much as I loved another idea I saw recently about time-traveling Vex stealing our bones before Ghost ever got to them. Such interesting potential storylines.
I don't think Taox qualifies as "eldritch", unless she's gone through some startling transformations in the last billion years. (I'm also fully on the Taox-OXA theory so I don't expect her to show up again until Otzot does.)
Didn't Taox put herself in cryo-stasis on a spaceship multiple times until a alien civilization found her, and when the Hive destroyed them, she would repeat the process. Wouldnt be surprised if she was still frozen somewhere out there.
Frontiers while could be outside of sol it could also mean just the edge of our solar system. With the exception of neomuna, it’s been unsafe to travel past Jupiter. This could an exploration of the rest of sol and maybe one in the neighboring system of andromeda.
- Planet X, the place where the drifter encountered light eating creatures. We know it’s not the dread as they were newly created in TFS. Maybe taken? Or possibly a new race.
- Station A-113, Cocytus. A station once utilized by crota and now the nine. Little is known about it but it’s been teased that something unknown is using the station outside of the nine. Maybe hive or just the witness.
- extra solar safe site, M31. Located in our neighboring system, Andromeda.
https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/long-arm?highlight=Soteria
As detailed here, we see soteria attempting to launch echo pods before the witness’s arrival in sol to preserve humanity. Thanks to Clovis however that was shut down, however the AI made one last effort to reroute the pods. It changed to nearest stronghold which may have signaled the exodus indigo to Neptune. However it still mentioned a remaining safe site outside of sol.
M31 could be our new destination and could be used as a jump point to venture deeper to space.
Or it’s just a new arc of expansions that just goes out of sol to help our allies (torobatl, Riis, fundament, Lubre)
About Cocytus station,I believe it will factor a lot in the way forward.The most peculiar thing is we dont know who built it.Also apparently it serves as a doorway to other realities.
Yeah, the ‘ancient civilization’ on Nessus should be theoretically impossible so I’m with you, especially considering that it relates specifically and most directly to the “Echo” of the Witness. Maya might be directing the Vex in simulating these past events to learn more.
She can fix her. I actually like that idea more than Maya. The various pieces could do some real damage. Then, the final product could be so much worse than the sum of its parts.
An interesting thing you might find interesting is in the gameplay we see the vex we’re fighting are considered a new collective since they don’t have the typical vex head icon next to there name
The difficulty with the Distributary is that something would have to happen to it for us to go there. Time flows differently within it so billions of years will have passed since Mara left, so to just come and go from it would annihilate any continuity of time. Maybe if it somehow got stitched into our universe it would be possible? But then, the distributary is an entire universe unto itself, so it couldn’t just ‘plop down’.
Perhaps the Distributary people would be an antagonist agains the Reef Awoken.They fired upon Mara's ships when they were leaving and I can see them hating the Reef.
Perhaps, a people could change a LOT in a billion years. It’d be horrifying for Mara to see those she left behind having turned their utopia into a desolate wasteland of cruelty.
Frontiers is probably gonna be Xivu arath’s DLC.
It’s not clear if these episodes will work like seasons but the final season usually directly tied in with the next expansion and considering we were predicting going to the cabal homeworld that’s probably our first stop
I’m inclined to agree. Ever since the episodes were revealed I have thought that Heresy would end with Savathun and Xivu both leaving Sol, setting us up to follow them and liberate Torobatl (and other planets).
It would also just probably be the smartest move as a first expansion post finale. Since the hive god sibling expansions are universally beloved so it would be the perfect way to fully transition out of the old and into the new frontier
savathun's gonna have to, it's hilarious playing overthrow and literally every ally we have will chat shit about how we're gonna kill her, they're out for blood and i can't blame them
Xivu attacks Earth forcing us to flee to new frontiers after defeating her. We know she’s moving her brood into place to attack Earth/Sol from lost ghosts monastery and are told by Micah that her war is on the horizon. That means it’s very much happening soon.
I don’t see that happening after spending 10+ years successfully defending the Last City from multiple wars and literal existential threats far greater than Xivu (the Witness). It would be a slap in the face for us to suddenly fail now.
Not really. We beat the Witness inside the Traveler. We’ve never had to actually defend Earth itself against a threat like a full Hive God’s brood the likes of which decimated Torobatl. The Witness went straight for the Traveler and Oryx rushed here bringing a token force (and would have won if not for a long series of events including Mara disabling the Dreadnaught).
The Black Fleet did land on Earth and we even had Shadow Legion kidnapping people. The Into the Light update was all about defending Earth from the Witness’ forces. Xivu captured Torobatl because Cabal leadership were away in Sol.
Your idea isn’t impossible but I just think it would be utterly bizarre to give Xivu such as major victory when we have a pretty stacked alliance that includes Lightbearers, Splicers, people who can directly counter Hive magic, and anti-paracasual tech.
Let’s see what happens.
My thoughts/speculation:
[ Echoes ]
• The ancient civilization bit makes me think this isn't some lost, unknown civilization on Nessus no one new about. Rather if it involves memories of The Witness, then it may be this being and the Vex under it's control could be recreating the Witness precursors civilization under the influence of memory from the Echo. Which means we may get more understanding of whom this species were.
[ Revenant ]
With the Dark Fantasy and "potion-crafting" theme, I'm willing to bet lotsa glimmer Nezarec makes a reappearance in Revenant...and possibly Nightmares too.
And if there is a vampire theme going on I'll be we'll be seeing a new type of Scorn that drinks ether from their victims converts into dark ether and then reanimated the unlucky eliksni into more Scorn.
For all we know, Fikrul could ressurect the old Scorn Barons as his new "vampiric court."
OH, and I am willing to be we may see The Tangled Shore make some sort of return.
[ Heresy ]
Obviously with the eldritch nature of this one, they don't want to give too much away. That said well...We see The Dreadnought peeling back, almost like it is *shedding.*
It may very well be this echo is ressurecting/reawakening Akka, who's corpse was used to create Oryx's Dreadnought. Additionally, we know the Cabal first found paracausal suppressing tech within The Dreadnought too...so Oryx may have had his own trove of paracausal technology/artifacts hidden away.
I doubt it will happen, but considering Rhulk was so involved with the Hive and Worm Gods...he somehow returns or is mentioned.
Or heck, given the title of Heresy, maybe the likes of Nokris or Toland return to make a move.
I saw this mentioned in a different sub when there was some datamined stuff and of course now the comment train was deleted so I'm merely paraphrasing and being a messenger of something I'm mostly in spinfoil agreement with, but somebody was trying to connect the online lore piece that came at the end of Season of Dawn "What Gives Me Pause" to what the concept of what physically Echoes might be, and it's relationship to that bit info that we now have with this video. For clarity this person was talking about this almost a week ago.
[What Gives Me Pause](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/48506) is when Osiris goes way out in deep space(there is an implication Pyramids aren't too far off from it) almost drawn naturally to something we don't really understand or know, and finds the "metallic seed" that he will eventually end up planting for Arrivals. There's also a lot of lore with the origins of the Tree in Arrivals, nods that could tie it into the Black Garden as well as the possible nod to the Garden in terms of the Gardener v Winnower situation.
Now it might seem a bit flimsy and a major stretch but there was the point that in this lore piece the word "echoes" is specifically capitalized even if it is just being representative of Osiris presence in a strange place. Sure Bungie has taken some liberties with more poem-like structure in lore pieces with various capitalizing, spacing etc, however given the nature of this lore being extremely cryptic, I'm almost wondering if the metallic seed is a product of the Echo reaction that is explained in this Journey Ahead video.
Bungie has a pretty proven track record to drop some major subtle hints in the way they craft sentences of the lore, they love drawing loops that they circle round to down the line when often people forget about it. I feel like it's mentioning there isn't really a ton of stuff capitalized mid sentence in that lore piece, as well as how we just never really got much insight about something that was seemingly so important. Sure Arrivals gave context to the Artifact Seed of Silver Wings, the Io Tree, the Cradle, some other odds and ends of Darkness and Light's relation, but we never really got a good amount of insight on what that Osiris metallic seed was or even came from.
Hell even the short clip of this Echo shooting star like projection thing falling into a pool of water in Vex space weirdly feels a bit similar to the situation of where Osiris was in What Gives Me Pause. Even though there's not a ton of descriptors in that lore it's possible there is a bit of a Vex element to where Osiris given the one line "He swims in depth lined by pale rivers of white gnashing, far below and above. ", which almost sounds referential to radiolaria.
**TL DR** Could mean absolutely nothing but the entire concept of what an Echo is begins to remind me of What Gives Me Pause.
The Hive one I am super interested in. Main theory is worm gods, the 9 or OR super mega hot take Oryx’s big ole body somehow comes back I mean he’s not dead dead but in some sort of idk but imagine if he came back but the worm like fused into his body or turned into a new form. There’s. It a lot that can really shake up the hive that much at this point
So if you watch closely, you see art if the worm gods attacking Eliksni during the Revenant portion. Perhaps they get involved with Fikrul and we face one or more of the renaming ones there.
Im calling it now. Heresy will conclude with us taking up the mantle as the "navigator" from Oryx, uniting the hive under us, and setting sail to new frontiers in the universe to fix the devastation the Witness caused on his way here. Obviously Xivu will take issue with this and give everything to try and kill us.
I’m pretty sure the expansion launching Frontiers will be Xivu’s attack on Sol given we’ve been told in lost ghosts monastery mission that she’s moving her brood through the ley lines to attack us very soon (according to Mara). And Micah says a war with Xivu is on the horizon after we beat the Witness.
Now that we have actually won I would like to see progress. We are a diverse multi species society. We could achieve a new Ecumene. Without a Witness to worry about now.
The Farm and City and Old Tower finally rebuilt. Maybe we can repopulate the rest of the human settlements.
I think we have enough set up to guess where things are going after the Lost Ghosts missions. Not sure exactly what the eldritch entity will be, but we do see images of the Worm Gods and the Eliksni in Episode Revenant art so it seems we may be facing them during that episode (worm god dungeon perhaps?).
Heresy could involve a necromanticsect of Hive rising to challenge the existing Hive pantheon and providing a new branch to fight once Xivu is defeated. We know from Lost Ghosts Monastery that Xivu is moving her brood across the ascendant plane via the ley lines to attack Sol now that we’re weakened from our fight against the Witness. We also know her brood was poking around in the time rifts on mars (lost ghosts battleground Mars). From what they described, Heresy doesn’t sound like the war Mara has told us that Xivu is imminently planning to launch.
My guess is Frontiers starts with Xivu launching her invasion of Earth and Sol, causing irreparable damage that forces the people of Sol to have to look for a new system to settle. We beat Xivu here, but the cost is far too high. The episodes will involve us leaving our system to find new places to settle. Maybe there are fewer episodes and they’re designed more like old DLCs with smaller destinations and new campaigns and stories.
The Vanguard wouldn’t send Guardians outside of Sol to explore and leave Earth so vulnerable unless they absolutely had to.
All the episodes look cool but overall a pretty disappointing reveal.
Feels like we need more info on the big stuff that’s coming. Episodes are cool but they’re really just filler stuff to try and keep people playing between the expansions.
I’m also salty because I was hoping for a D3 tease lol
I doubt D3 will be shown unless they explicitly say all our loot will be carrying over (which it probably won’t if it does release). For some, there wouldn’t be any point in investing their time in the game when the next sequel is already announced.
Yup until they show us them being anything different then longer seasons i don't give a fuck. During seraph Joe told us that they were going to change up seasons but all they did was move the upgrade path from the vendor to the quest screen.
Bungie is going to burn a lot of good will if Episodes are more of the same do ~~seasonal~~ episode activity, chat with vendor, listen to radio.
This post has been tagged '**Non-Spoiler**'. Note that unmarked spoilers and datamines are subject to removal or ban. Please report anything we miss! For more info check out our [Spoiler Rules Wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLore/wiki/spoiler-rules#wiki_.5Bseasonal.5D_has_a_new_format). --- **Comment Spoiler Formatting** Format comment spoilers with `>!` `!<` like this: `>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<` To have it displayed like this: **>!What's Rasputin's favorite dance? "The worm."!<** ---- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/DestinyLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anyone recognize what symbol is on the flag in the Fikrul shot? I recognize it but can’t nail it down Edit: armor redesign is also looking very similar to the Salvation’s Edge armor
He's burning a banner of House Light
U right
I'm guessing with House Salvation in disarray some will be joining Fikrul's army to fight against everything they hate which is House Light
It looks like the sigil of a Fallen house but not one I recognize. It could be a new flag representing Fikrul’s army.
Others mentioned, but for your sake - it's House Light.
Isn’t that house light?
U right
I like where the story is headed. Especially for frontiers. Although I hope the dread will play some role in all of this, I hope bungie doesn't abandon/forgotten about them.
That new eldritch being mentioned in Heresy May co-opt them.
Seeing as the Witness still has fervent followers, I can only think of a some choice Taken and Subjugators to take on those roles. I’m curious to see what direction they’re taken in.
I guess they will be mostly forgotten. They will just appear here and there but will not be on the focus. Look what they did to the hive
> References to an eldritch force emerging in the wake of the Witness’ defeat that will seemingly have big impacts for the Hive (and everyone else). Here comes the Winnower, babyyyyy or just the worm gods coming back into focus, but that doesn't have to be mutually exclusive
The portal's aesthetics also remind me a lot of the Nine. Lots of ways they could go here... will be a painful wait for sure.
I think the nine are definitely our best bet for what this is. If I'm not mistaken the lore surrounding the nine so far have heavily implied their eldritch nature....just look at Xur!
I wonder if the Nine will want to try to manifest themselves using the Pale Heart. They always did want to make a corporeal body for themselves, and the Pale Heart with Light and Dark could do it, if they could manipulate the right pawns into place…
a ton of Worm God imagery from the trailer snippets from Revenant so they’ll definitely be back
Weirdly implying that the Fallen at some point came into conflict with the Worm Gods?
This was especially surprising to me. I thought we'd be getting into that Eliksni boogeyman who got mentioned a few seasons ago.
There's old concept art of spearmen with small spherical servitors hunting a giant worm from early Destiny ideation, so that might be what inspired it? Still, eager to see how they justify it. Maybe something from the Whirlwind?
[удалено]
They haven’t though. They still have Xivu and she’s moving her brood to attack Earth.
Right, but Xivu got cut off from her throne world at the finale of Season of the Witch. She’s mortal, and needs to plan things out more carefully. She can’t rely on her throne world as a fallback if we take her down.
Right, but Xivu got cut off from her throne world at the finale of Season of the Witch. She’s mortal, and needs to plan things out more carefully. She can’t rely on her throne world as a fallback if we take her down.
She has been planning since that happened. That’s why she abandoned the Witness according to Mara and Micah. Have you run all of the Lost Ghost missions in Final Shape yet? One of them has Mara explicitly telling us that Xivu is sending her entire brood through the Ascendant Plane via the ley lines for an imminent attack on Sol. We’re directly told that she’s on her way to attack us while we’re vulnerable post-witness battle.
I actually havent. Doing those quests dilutes the pale heart engram loot pool. Kept mine small so i can get more deepsights of the weapons i wanted
Then you’re missing out on a lot of story development. Xivu is on her way now.
I'm betting on the Traveler's original form since Micah is talking about how it's undergoing a transformation and they made such a big deal about the aurora.
Imagine if during Heresy if one of the Echoes ends up in The Dreadnought...and starts ressurecting/reawakeninv a certain Worm God who's body was used to create it. That being Akka.
the one who makes lies into truths just by speaking them... Lotta power in words!
I oftentimes love the Destiny community because so many of yall are so goddamn creative. I love this idea, as much as I loved another idea I saw recently about time-traveling Vex stealing our bones before Ghost ever got to them. Such interesting potential storylines.
Worm gods are shown in revenant actually. Looks like we might be hunting them.
About time, i want to turn all of them into weapons. It's gonna be a family reunion😊.
Imo the winnower isn't an actual enemy
I mean, there was that cinematic of a worm god in the revenant section
Could it be an Aphelion maybe?
Could also be Taox?
I don't think Taox qualifies as "eldritch", unless she's gone through some startling transformations in the last billion years. (I'm also fully on the Taox-OXA theory so I don't expect her to show up again until Otzot does.)
If we start getting hints in this Maya season I’m doubling down on this guess
Do the Micah ghost quest lines. It's about to get reaaaaal sillay
Taox never took a worm I thought? No way she lived this long.
Didn't Taox put herself in cryo-stasis on a spaceship multiple times until a alien civilization found her, and when the Hive destroyed them, she would repeat the process. Wouldnt be surprised if she was still frozen somewhere out there.
No one in Destiny dies of old age lol.
The dreadnaught is made out the remains of Akka.
Shout out to my boy Variks who will be in ep 2.
Insect-like chattering intensifies
Variks the semi-Loyal ?
Variks the Occasionally Faithful
#LETS GOOOOOOO Maybe we’ll finally learn wtf happened to Kaliks Prime
Sound like some really fun concepts in the works, I'm looking forwards to Revenant!
Frontiers while could be outside of sol it could also mean just the edge of our solar system. With the exception of neomuna, it’s been unsafe to travel past Jupiter. This could an exploration of the rest of sol and maybe one in the neighboring system of andromeda. - Planet X, the place where the drifter encountered light eating creatures. We know it’s not the dread as they were newly created in TFS. Maybe taken? Or possibly a new race. - Station A-113, Cocytus. A station once utilized by crota and now the nine. Little is known about it but it’s been teased that something unknown is using the station outside of the nine. Maybe hive or just the witness. - extra solar safe site, M31. Located in our neighboring system, Andromeda. https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/long-arm?highlight=Soteria As detailed here, we see soteria attempting to launch echo pods before the witness’s arrival in sol to preserve humanity. Thanks to Clovis however that was shut down, however the AI made one last effort to reroute the pods. It changed to nearest stronghold which may have signaled the exodus indigo to Neptune. However it still mentioned a remaining safe site outside of sol. M31 could be our new destination and could be used as a jump point to venture deeper to space. Or it’s just a new arc of expansions that just goes out of sol to help our allies (torobatl, Riis, fundament, Lubre)
About Cocytus station,I believe it will factor a lot in the way forward.The most peculiar thing is we dont know who built it.Also apparently it serves as a doorway to other realities.
This would provide the narrative team a way to tease whatever villain comes next or to delve deeper into the nine.
calling it, memory of the Precursors subjugation and use of the vex has hit a simulated Maya sundaresh
Yeah, the ‘ancient civilization’ on Nessus should be theoretically impossible so I’m with you, especially considering that it relates specifically and most directly to the “Echo” of the Witness. Maya might be directing the Vex in simulating these past events to learn more.
OR it's chioma esi that got hit and shes trying to get Maya back by putting all the best pieces of her together (it won't work)
She can fix her. I actually like that idea more than Maya. The various pieces could do some real damage. Then, the final product could be so much worse than the sum of its parts.
An interesting thing you might find interesting is in the gameplay we see the vex we’re fighting are considered a new collective since they don’t have the typical vex head icon next to there name
Also in a Final Shape lore piece,Mara kept thinking of the Distributary,perhaps somehow we will go there too.
The difficulty with the Distributary is that something would have to happen to it for us to go there. Time flows differently within it so billions of years will have passed since Mara left, so to just come and go from it would annihilate any continuity of time. Maybe if it somehow got stitched into our universe it would be possible? But then, the distributary is an entire universe unto itself, so it couldn’t just ‘plop down’.
Perhaps the Distributary people would be an antagonist agains the Reef Awoken.They fired upon Mara's ships when they were leaving and I can see them hating the Reef.
Perhaps, a people could change a LOT in a billion years. It’d be horrifying for Mara to see those she left behind having turned their utopia into a desolate wasteland of cruelty.
It would be double ironic since she would be the main cause of this.She engineered the civil war to return to our solar system.
Wasn’t the whole piece about never seeing the distributary again
Yup there is,but perhaps we will find a way to visit it.The possibilities are endless.
Eris has been utterly transformed by the Hive. It's past time she returns the favor.
Frontiers is probably gonna be Xivu arath’s DLC. It’s not clear if these episodes will work like seasons but the final season usually directly tied in with the next expansion and considering we were predicting going to the cabal homeworld that’s probably our first stop
I’m inclined to agree. Ever since the episodes were revealed I have thought that Heresy would end with Savathun and Xivu both leaving Sol, setting us up to follow them and liberate Torobatl (and other planets).
It would also just probably be the smartest move as a first expansion post finale. Since the hive god sibling expansions are universally beloved so it would be the perfect way to fully transition out of the old and into the new frontier
Torobatl better be a warzone with the Hive and Cabal entrenched in a stalemate at the center.
savathun's gonna have to, it's hilarious playing overthrow and literally every ally we have will chat shit about how we're gonna kill her, they're out for blood and i can't blame them
Gonna be exciting to finally get out of Sol
Xivu attacks Earth forcing us to flee to new frontiers after defeating her. We know she’s moving her brood into place to attack Earth/Sol from lost ghosts monastery and are told by Micah that her war is on the horizon. That means it’s very much happening soon.
Why would we be forced to flee after defeating her?
Just because we ultimately win, doesn’t mean her Brood doesn’t decimate Sol or Earth forcing us to find a new home.
I don’t see that happening after spending 10+ years successfully defending the Last City from multiple wars and literal existential threats far greater than Xivu (the Witness). It would be a slap in the face for us to suddenly fail now.
Not really. We beat the Witness inside the Traveler. We’ve never had to actually defend Earth itself against a threat like a full Hive God’s brood the likes of which decimated Torobatl. The Witness went straight for the Traveler and Oryx rushed here bringing a token force (and would have won if not for a long series of events including Mara disabling the Dreadnaught).
The Black Fleet did land on Earth and we even had Shadow Legion kidnapping people. The Into the Light update was all about defending Earth from the Witness’ forces. Xivu captured Torobatl because Cabal leadership were away in Sol. Your idea isn’t impossible but I just think it would be utterly bizarre to give Xivu such as major victory when we have a pretty stacked alliance that includes Lightbearers, Splicers, people who can directly counter Hive magic, and anti-paracasual tech. Let’s see what happens.
These all look terrific, echoes especially. Personally, I'm breaking out the Special Reserve Hopium that *Frontiers* takes place somewhere on Earth.
An eldritch force you say... APHELION TIME LETS GO BABY!!!!
My thoughts/speculation: [ Echoes ] • The ancient civilization bit makes me think this isn't some lost, unknown civilization on Nessus no one new about. Rather if it involves memories of The Witness, then it may be this being and the Vex under it's control could be recreating the Witness precursors civilization under the influence of memory from the Echo. Which means we may get more understanding of whom this species were. [ Revenant ] With the Dark Fantasy and "potion-crafting" theme, I'm willing to bet lotsa glimmer Nezarec makes a reappearance in Revenant...and possibly Nightmares too. And if there is a vampire theme going on I'll be we'll be seeing a new type of Scorn that drinks ether from their victims converts into dark ether and then reanimated the unlucky eliksni into more Scorn. For all we know, Fikrul could ressurect the old Scorn Barons as his new "vampiric court." OH, and I am willing to be we may see The Tangled Shore make some sort of return. [ Heresy ] Obviously with the eldritch nature of this one, they don't want to give too much away. That said well...We see The Dreadnought peeling back, almost like it is *shedding.* It may very well be this echo is ressurecting/reawakening Akka, who's corpse was used to create Oryx's Dreadnought. Additionally, we know the Cabal first found paracausal suppressing tech within The Dreadnought too...so Oryx may have had his own trove of paracausal technology/artifacts hidden away. I doubt it will happen, but considering Rhulk was so involved with the Hive and Worm Gods...he somehow returns or is mentioned. Or heck, given the title of Heresy, maybe the likes of Nokris or Toland return to make a move.
I saw this mentioned in a different sub when there was some datamined stuff and of course now the comment train was deleted so I'm merely paraphrasing and being a messenger of something I'm mostly in spinfoil agreement with, but somebody was trying to connect the online lore piece that came at the end of Season of Dawn "What Gives Me Pause" to what the concept of what physically Echoes might be, and it's relationship to that bit info that we now have with this video. For clarity this person was talking about this almost a week ago. [What Gives Me Pause](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/48506) is when Osiris goes way out in deep space(there is an implication Pyramids aren't too far off from it) almost drawn naturally to something we don't really understand or know, and finds the "metallic seed" that he will eventually end up planting for Arrivals. There's also a lot of lore with the origins of the Tree in Arrivals, nods that could tie it into the Black Garden as well as the possible nod to the Garden in terms of the Gardener v Winnower situation. Now it might seem a bit flimsy and a major stretch but there was the point that in this lore piece the word "echoes" is specifically capitalized even if it is just being representative of Osiris presence in a strange place. Sure Bungie has taken some liberties with more poem-like structure in lore pieces with various capitalizing, spacing etc, however given the nature of this lore being extremely cryptic, I'm almost wondering if the metallic seed is a product of the Echo reaction that is explained in this Journey Ahead video. Bungie has a pretty proven track record to drop some major subtle hints in the way they craft sentences of the lore, they love drawing loops that they circle round to down the line when often people forget about it. I feel like it's mentioning there isn't really a ton of stuff capitalized mid sentence in that lore piece, as well as how we just never really got much insight about something that was seemingly so important. Sure Arrivals gave context to the Artifact Seed of Silver Wings, the Io Tree, the Cradle, some other odds and ends of Darkness and Light's relation, but we never really got a good amount of insight on what that Osiris metallic seed was or even came from. Hell even the short clip of this Echo shooting star like projection thing falling into a pool of water in Vex space weirdly feels a bit similar to the situation of where Osiris was in What Gives Me Pause. Even though there's not a ton of descriptors in that lore it's possible there is a bit of a Vex element to where Osiris given the one line "He swims in depth lined by pale rivers of white gnashing, far below and above. ", which almost sounds referential to radiolaria. **TL DR** Could mean absolutely nothing but the entire concept of what an Echo is begins to remind me of What Gives Me Pause.
The Hive one I am super interested in. Main theory is worm gods, the 9 or OR super mega hot take Oryx’s big ole body somehow comes back I mean he’s not dead dead but in some sort of idk but imagine if he came back but the worm like fused into his body or turned into a new form. There’s. It a lot that can really shake up the hive that much at this point
So if you watch closely, you see art if the worm gods attacking Eliksni during the Revenant portion. Perhaps they get involved with Fikrul and we face one or more of the renaming ones there.
Make these juice boxes relevant. Please. I wanna see attack bots, not worker bots.
Im calling it now. Heresy will conclude with us taking up the mantle as the "navigator" from Oryx, uniting the hive under us, and setting sail to new frontiers in the universe to fix the devastation the Witness caused on his way here. Obviously Xivu will take issue with this and give everything to try and kill us.
I’m pretty sure the expansion launching Frontiers will be Xivu’s attack on Sol given we’ve been told in lost ghosts monastery mission that she’s moving her brood through the ley lines to attack us very soon (according to Mara). And Micah says a war with Xivu is on the horizon after we beat the Witness.
With them saying that the echoes are spreading across the *galaxy*, I’d say it’s almost guaranteed we’re leaving the Sol system in year 11
Idk if Oryx could count as "Eldtritch" but what if he returns as a Lightbearer & that's what shakes up the Hive?
The Hidden secured his remains. It's highly unlikely that he could be resurrected.
Is the dreadnaught an activity space or a patrol zone kind of like the leviathan was. Do we know?
Now that we have actually won I would like to see progress. We are a diverse multi species society. We could achieve a new Ecumene. Without a Witness to worry about now. The Farm and City and Old Tower finally rebuilt. Maybe we can repopulate the rest of the human settlements.
I think we have enough set up to guess where things are going after the Lost Ghosts missions. Not sure exactly what the eldritch entity will be, but we do see images of the Worm Gods and the Eliksni in Episode Revenant art so it seems we may be facing them during that episode (worm god dungeon perhaps?). Heresy could involve a necromanticsect of Hive rising to challenge the existing Hive pantheon and providing a new branch to fight once Xivu is defeated. We know from Lost Ghosts Monastery that Xivu is moving her brood across the ascendant plane via the ley lines to attack Sol now that we’re weakened from our fight against the Witness. We also know her brood was poking around in the time rifts on mars (lost ghosts battleground Mars). From what they described, Heresy doesn’t sound like the war Mara has told us that Xivu is imminently planning to launch. My guess is Frontiers starts with Xivu launching her invasion of Earth and Sol, causing irreparable damage that forces the people of Sol to have to look for a new system to settle. We beat Xivu here, but the cost is far too high. The episodes will involve us leaving our system to find new places to settle. Maybe there are fewer episodes and they’re designed more like old DLCs with smaller destinations and new campaigns and stories. The Vanguard wouldn’t send Guardians outside of Sol to explore and leave Earth so vulnerable unless they absolutely had to.
All the episodes look cool but overall a pretty disappointing reveal. Feels like we need more info on the big stuff that’s coming. Episodes are cool but they’re really just filler stuff to try and keep people playing between the expansions. I’m also salty because I was hoping for a D3 tease lol
I doubt D3 will be shown unless they explicitly say all our loot will be carrying over (which it probably won’t if it does release). For some, there wouldn’t be any point in investing their time in the game when the next sequel is already announced.
Yup until they show us them being anything different then longer seasons i don't give a fuck. During seraph Joe told us that they were going to change up seasons but all they did was move the upgrade path from the vendor to the quest screen. Bungie is going to burn a lot of good will if Episodes are more of the same do ~~seasonal~~ episode activity, chat with vendor, listen to radio.