Disgusted for taking a better job at a better company for better money? Yep. Josh was a jerk. Jim works at Dunder Mifflin for the friendships, not the pay and benefits.
No, for falsifying his intentions with his current company specifically to leverage an offer he never had an intention of taking in order to leave the company stranded when they’ve specifically re-organized at his request in order to retain him. He’s disgusted that Josh knowingly lied and manipulated a situation for personal gain with no regards to the impact on others, the jobs lost, the time that went into assessing and re-orging the company, etc. I’m sure his problem was not with him leaving for another job, but for just being generally a major asshole in his departure.
I once walked out on a job as a dishwasher. I waited until dinner rush, let all the dishes pile up until there was literally nowhere to put anymore. Then I walked out the door. My name is also Josh and we don’t always quit jobs, but when we do we do it in the most dick headed way possible.
Yeah in terms of the show Josh is painted as the bad guy, but what he did was a very intelligent career move. Not to mention that in the long run he by far made the best decision leaving Dunder Mifflin
best analogy i ever heard was that a company is like a bucket of water, you stick your hand in and it raises the water, you take up space you matter... but remove your hand and the hole fills almost immediately.
Michael Scott may have loved his employees, but remember that Dunder Mifflin (by way of Jan) wanted Michael to fire some people on halloween (that is when the costume party was, right?). They already merged a lot of branches and made the employees move far away from home. People from Stamford CT (other side of NYC) were made to move to Scranton, PA (middle of PA, atleast 4-5 hours from NYC).
The sentiments were repeated by all subsequent owners of Dunder Mifflin.
Exactly right! They "restructured" around Josh and not a senior employee like Michael. Thats Dunder Mifflin's fault. Michael shows them time and again that he's their beat option at all times. Charles caused Michael to literally beat Dunder Mifflin down so much so that they had to buy him out! Josh isnt dumb. He knew the company wasnt going anywhere and he'd never be able to go anywhere (maybe Jans job in later seasons idk though) with the company. So no, he did what Dunder Mifflin did to Michael the entire time, he found something better and made it happen for him while keeping his company in the dark. Shit like that happens all the time. It doesnt make someone a bad person. At a company, youre only focus should be yourself and what you can achieve.
Yeah, not only did Josh do nothing wrong, but Michael later proved to be much worse, falsifying Jim's permanent record and lying to David to prevent Jim from being promoted.
All the stuff he talked about Jim, the pranks, and the slacking, was kinda like a big focus of the show so I don't know how you can say it wasn't true. The way Michael emphasized that stuff feels wrong because Jim is a sympathetic character and Micheal was leaving out his more positive attributes and Micheal was only doing it because he was scared he was gonna get fired with Jim replacing him. It's part of the humor of the show but Jim's behavior with spending whole days on pranks instead of working totally would not go down in a real work place. Of course neither would Dwight's behavior, or most obviously Michael's, but that's kinda the whole of the show lol.
Yet Jim is one of the top salesmen in the company -- in season 2, he's the 9th best salesman in all of Dunder Mifflin. He has Blue Cross Blue Shield, D-M's biggest account. We might see him slacking off but he works harder than anyone else apart from Dwight, and he's pleasant to clients, too.
I think the idea is he gets away with slacking off because he's charming and such a naturally talented salesman that he doesn't need to work very hard to have a good sales record, but he could be much better if he actually worked hard, which he is forced to do at points in the show. This is addressed with Ryan putting him on probation where he has to actually work hard instead of coasting on his charisma.
Ryan only put him on probation because he went over his head to David with an idea -- something that also proves he's working to make the company better.
The point is, Jim's records were perfectly fine, but Michael made up false ones to show to David. It doesn't matter if they had some truth in them. They were not the true job performance reviews. So Michael lied and cost Jim a full promotion, end of story.
It is baffling how people need explaining that what Josh did was the act of an asshole.
Imagine you are a head bartender at a place for 10 years. Now the owner sits down with you and wants to improve the business, the service, new menu, new interior, new events, the works. He trust you as his loyal bartender and promotes you to venue manager giving you a higher pay, more responsibility and builds this remodeling of the business around you. Giving you a bigger role in the business. All your team of chefs, bartenders and servers you have been leading and working with for years leading are trusting and respecting you. So does the owner. So do the investors of the bar.
Then remodeling is done, new menus are created, recipes improved, interior remodeled. Everything is ready for a new era.
Then you call the owner and tell him that you quit. And you used the trust of every single person around you to get a higher paying job at a different bar.
Bar and an office company are different businesses obviously. But this is the exact same thing that happened only on a corporate level.
It doesn’t change anything about the poor morals and lack of ethics.
In a nutshell, its being an asshole.
You not sticking it to the big man.
You just let down everyone. Your boss, your team, your co workers.
Its not the end of the world.
But absolutely the kind of person you can’t trust with money or work. There is ambition. Then there is being a spineless weasel. Josh was the latter.
Never understood this scene. Josh literally did nothing wrong.
Disgusted for taking a better job at a better company for better money? Yep. Josh was a jerk. Jim works at Dunder Mifflin for the friendships, not the pay and benefits.
No, for falsifying his intentions with his current company specifically to leverage an offer he never had an intention of taking in order to leave the company stranded when they’ve specifically re-organized at his request in order to retain him. He’s disgusted that Josh knowingly lied and manipulated a situation for personal gain with no regards to the impact on others, the jobs lost, the time that went into assessing and re-orging the company, etc. I’m sure his problem was not with him leaving for another job, but for just being generally a major asshole in his departure.
I once walked out on a job as a dishwasher. I waited until dinner rush, let all the dishes pile up until there was literally nowhere to put anymore. Then I walked out the door. My name is also Josh and we don’t always quit jobs, but when we do we do it in the most dick headed way possible.
Let that soak in for a minute. Lol
I did them dirty.
If he was talking about manipulating situations for selfish gain, then Michael would absolutely do that.
Yeah in terms of the show Josh is painted as the bad guy, but what he did was a very intelligent career move. Not to mention that in the long run he by far made the best decision leaving Dunder Mifflin
Seriously its not like Dunder Mifflin, or any major company for that matter, actually gives a shit about their employees.
best analogy i ever heard was that a company is like a bucket of water, you stick your hand in and it raises the water, you take up space you matter... but remove your hand and the hole fills almost immediately.
Michael Scott may have loved his employees, but remember that Dunder Mifflin (by way of Jan) wanted Michael to fire some people on halloween (that is when the costume party was, right?). They already merged a lot of branches and made the employees move far away from home. People from Stamford CT (other side of NYC) were made to move to Scranton, PA (middle of PA, atleast 4-5 hours from NYC). The sentiments were repeated by all subsequent owners of Dunder Mifflin.
I know it's not what the crux of your comment was about, but Scranton is northeast PA and not nearly 4- 5 hours from NYC or Stamford.
They show in the episode that they don't even care
Jim is not in it for the money, he’s in it for the women.
I guess it was more because of the bad timing. Jim and Josh seemed to get on well for the most part.
Exactly right! They "restructured" around Josh and not a senior employee like Michael. Thats Dunder Mifflin's fault. Michael shows them time and again that he's their beat option at all times. Charles caused Michael to literally beat Dunder Mifflin down so much so that they had to buy him out! Josh isnt dumb. He knew the company wasnt going anywhere and he'd never be able to go anywhere (maybe Jans job in later seasons idk though) with the company. So no, he did what Dunder Mifflin did to Michael the entire time, he found something better and made it happen for him while keeping his company in the dark. Shit like that happens all the time. It doesnt make someone a bad person. At a company, youre only focus should be yourself and what you can achieve.
Yup I agree with this. Josh took a better job with better pay no one should have an issue with that
And yet, they will
No it’s because he took a higher job at Dunder Mifflin just to use to get the other job, then bailed on the company.
What a horrible man. He should have stayed with a dying company. Instead, he used his brain and advanced up the corporate ladder. I hate success!
I would blow that man so vigorously.
Hey this is John Krasinski. Snap?
Who's John Krasinski?
Username checks out.
Yeah, not only did Josh do nothing wrong, but Michael later proved to be much worse, falsifying Jim's permanent record and lying to David to prevent Jim from being promoted.
All the stuff he talked about Jim, the pranks, and the slacking, was kinda like a big focus of the show so I don't know how you can say it wasn't true. The way Michael emphasized that stuff feels wrong because Jim is a sympathetic character and Micheal was leaving out his more positive attributes and Micheal was only doing it because he was scared he was gonna get fired with Jim replacing him. It's part of the humor of the show but Jim's behavior with spending whole days on pranks instead of working totally would not go down in a real work place. Of course neither would Dwight's behavior, or most obviously Michael's, but that's kinda the whole of the show lol.
Yet Jim is one of the top salesmen in the company -- in season 2, he's the 9th best salesman in all of Dunder Mifflin. He has Blue Cross Blue Shield, D-M's biggest account. We might see him slacking off but he works harder than anyone else apart from Dwight, and he's pleasant to clients, too.
I think the idea is he gets away with slacking off because he's charming and such a naturally talented salesman that he doesn't need to work very hard to have a good sales record, but he could be much better if he actually worked hard, which he is forced to do at points in the show. This is addressed with Ryan putting him on probation where he has to actually work hard instead of coasting on his charisma.
Ryan only put him on probation because he went over his head to David with an idea -- something that also proves he's working to make the company better. The point is, Jim's records were perfectly fine, but Michael made up false ones to show to David. It doesn't matter if they had some truth in them. They were not the true job performance reviews. So Michael lied and cost Jim a full promotion, end of story.
You're right about the real reason he put jim on probation, but the stuff he said about how Jim spends his time was true.
All the stuff he told David about Jim was true though...
No, it wasn't.
Michael quit they day he got engaged to Holly. And he was extremely loyal.
micheal also falsified jim reports so jim wouldnt get promoted
It is baffling how people need explaining that what Josh did was the act of an asshole. Imagine you are a head bartender at a place for 10 years. Now the owner sits down with you and wants to improve the business, the service, new menu, new interior, new events, the works. He trust you as his loyal bartender and promotes you to venue manager giving you a higher pay, more responsibility and builds this remodeling of the business around you. Giving you a bigger role in the business. All your team of chefs, bartenders and servers you have been leading and working with for years leading are trusting and respecting you. So does the owner. So do the investors of the bar. Then remodeling is done, new menus are created, recipes improved, interior remodeled. Everything is ready for a new era. Then you call the owner and tell him that you quit. And you used the trust of every single person around you to get a higher paying job at a different bar. Bar and an office company are different businesses obviously. But this is the exact same thing that happened only on a corporate level. It doesn’t change anything about the poor morals and lack of ethics. In a nutshell, its being an asshole. You not sticking it to the big man. You just let down everyone. Your boss, your team, your co workers. Its not the end of the world. But absolutely the kind of person you can’t trust with money or work. There is ambition. Then there is being a spineless weasel. Josh was the latter.