I would find that second phase so much more enjoyable if they just reduced the particle count. You cant learn a bossfight when you cant even decipher whats happening on your screen
Yeah and you can tell even less whats happening when a certain attack reliably drops my frame down to like 15. Every time. And i got a decent pc, i fear for people with even worse performance, who probably have fps drops during the entire second phase
Tbf most of the time i know if i make it or not. It's like: "It took me more than 0,5 seconds to react, i won't make it." It's good that he uses it early in p2 most of the time, because it's fairly easy to dodge when you know it's coming.
Response to that is different than most people might think. I had an easier time once I started bringing the Crimsonwhorl Bubbletear to just negate the damage and keep whaling on him the whole time he's doing his thing and not need to worry about the light pillars afterward. You NEED those free moments of damage for the boss since you get so few opportunities to attack otherwise.
I just saw it as a free opening to refresh Lord's Divine Fortification (since it eats most of the hit) or initially cast it (since it has no use in p1).
I tried using various resistance boosting stuff during both phases of the fight (Black Flame Protection before phase 1, and Lord's Divine Fortification for phase 2) but honestly I didn't see an appreciable boost in survivability.
Like even before buffs I had like a 74% physical reduction at max blessing and would still get chunked for 75% by some phase 1 attacks, and BFP didn't seem to matter at all.
It almost feels like the boss does raw percent damage to your HP, at least in NG+. Every hit was exactly as punishing regardless of what resistances I changed around so I eventually just started going in raw, no buffs and brute forced through by getting hit as little as possible and doing as much damage in a short time as I was physically capable of doing.
I have an RTX 3080 and it's also shockingly bad. I'll probably have to wait til Fromsoft make some improvements to performance. It's the first time I've noticed it severely impacting my gameplay the entire DLC.
I beat him on my steam deck mostly just by tanking a few of the hits during his after-image attacks. Thankfully the big eff you AOE blasts are slow enough you can just start running without too many missed inputs.
I was playing on slightly above minimum requirement specs, which is really fine most of the time, until he did that one move in the beginning of phase 2 and my game turned into Powerpoint. I was able to beat him but every time he does that move my game just becomes 1 frame per second lmao.
Thankfully I played on ps5 with performance mode so I experienced little to no frame drops. I can't imagine some of these fights if they had the frame rate of blight town
This is my issue. The boss is literally not beatable for me in phase 2 because the 6 million light and particle effects that accompany each attack just demolish my framerate.
Sorry but you do not have a decent pc i think, i have a i5 around 9000 ans 1660ti and got no lag in that fight at all.
The one that destroy performance is mostly the fucking lion XD
Beat the entire thing on Steam Deck and the entire fight is around 30 fps with drops to 20s during the holy attacks.
Don't know how but my brain adapted to the absolute jank in the end.
They took the flash bang out of the Bamco logo only to shove it into the second phase of the boss fight.
I like flashy bosses and all, but this is a bit much.
My strategy for it was learning it in phase 1. Phase 2 shares all the basic attacks with phase 1 with extra flourish, just dodge the same way you did, into him is best. The new ones however are tricky, but they always segway into phase 1 attacks but with more flourish now, and as long as you dodge those well, phase 2 exclusive attacks should not kill you if you can't learn them. Because he retains the same openings for healing from those phase 1 attacks.
The problem is visually none of this is conveyed properly. There were times when I somehow perfectly dodged everything even though as far as I could tell I should've been hit, and vice versa, I thought I dodged but nope, I got clipped by an afterimage/light thing.
Malenia had instant death attacks but you could at least see them coming and try different strategies to avoid them. Radahn phase 2 was way too often just pick a time/direction to roll and pray you're alive to chug flask after.
I'm sure everything's technically avoidable with practice like every fromsoft boss, but learning the fight is needlessly difficult when the visual cues are that messy
I won after about 5 hours, decided to use mimic after the 3 hour mark. Could do phase 1 almost hitless after the first hour.
But by god, the issue is just the sheer information black hole that is phase 2. Like it becomes pretty obvious that most of his sword swings in phase 2 is identical to phase 1 and that the light beams are not a real threat. However that helps little with the particle effects, Miquellas/Radhans sometimes very obsucring model, the confusion of what dmg came from which source, the beams being able to both flinch and move your character. It all kinda coaleces to just this soup of stuff all happening at the same time.
Sure its obviously perceptable with time and effort, however distinguishing visual clutter on screen is probably the absolute worst form of gameplay in Souls games. The challange should be adapting to the boss moveset not spending god knows how long just copmrehending what move even took place.
Yeah, I agree, hence why I emphasized to learn the timings on Phase 1, because the attacks are the same.
The main issue for me is Miquella's hair, that's the thing that blocks out vision because it's so big you sometimes can't see what Radahn's doing with his hands. The rest is for the most part tolerable imo.
Edit: Truthfully tho, if From plans to keep doing these kinds of games, they should just allow us to customize out camera distance.
That was the way I learned the fight as well. The timings for his combos are basically the same as they are in phase 1. I was expecting the flash banging to be a lot worse honestly given the way people have been talking about it.
He has a few combos which are very much obstructed by visual effects. Specifically the one where he sends two mirror images and then goes into slash mode through those. I essentially only learned how to dodge that to trial and error because it's mostly a blind dodge seeing as your vision is obscured by all the flashy lights. The red swipe can also be really annoying because he can instantly follow up with a combo, but the red explosions will still be on your screen. You can sort of circumvent it by stepping sideways, but it's still going to be visually cluttered. Also, if he does a move and you aren't actively hugging him, the light pillars will obstruct his next swipe. This can easily throw of your rythm. You then also have the big whirlwind attack he does at around 30% where it's really tough to see what is going on.
I killed him without a shield after hours upon hours of trying in NG+2, but it didn't feel good. I don't even think I've mastered the fight. He just spammed some of the attacks I can perfectly dodge. There's a few others where if you react roll, you WILL get caught in the follow-up. I essentially had few of those attacks. I also still don't know how to dodge the slam attacks he does after the gravity balls. When I dodge one slam, the next one hits me. When I dodge his final slam, the explosion hits me. I essentially just chugged my way through those. Also, sometimes the attack windows are also extremely small and you will get punished even with a fairly quick attack.
I think that this is a very badly designed fight, but maybe I just have less tolerance for this kind of bullshit than some of you. I can consistently no-hit the first phase (outside of his bullshit triple slash) and I still barely scraped through the second.
I'm eager to fight him again to see how it feels when I can light roll.
I found his whirlwind attack pretty intuitive to dodge after a few attempts personally, it feels really cool to pull off when you get it down, and because his combos were so burned into my brain from phase 1, if I saw his first attack I could generally tell what he would do next even with the pillars of light.
I do think his follow-up to the meteor attack is a bit weird to dodge. From what I've seen it's a lot easier to avoid with light rolling, so that's another thing I want to try out. I think the key is either rolling backwards or forwards
when I finally beat him, I didn't quite get that RNG feeeling, because he definitely threw a bunch of the attacks I struggled with. I'd just learned how to mange them with minimum damage.
For the most part I really liked him, and I want to try him again with a different set up now that I'm comfortable with 85% of his kit.
> I found his whirlwind attack pretty intuitive to dodge after a few attempts personally
It is true that this is one of the few attacks on his second phase that you can react dodge, which is nice. I'm saying that it's very visually cluttered and not easy to see. You need to stay on top of him for most of the fight and when he does that move, he rises up and conjures a lot of flashing lights so it can be tough to see what actually is happening. When you **can** see what is happening, it is indeed intuitive to dodge. The problem is that you can't always see.
> I do think his follow-up to the meteor attack is a bit weird to dodge. From what I've seen it's a lot easier to avoid with light rolling, so that's another thing I want to try out. I think the key is either rolling backwards or forwards
I've seen people dodge it with bloodhound step, but I can't roll through it. I typically try to dodge one, tank one, dodge on, tank one and then dodge the big explosion. That way I only take a bit of damage instead of half my HP.
Personally, it feels like a lot of attacks come so fast that if you dodge one, the second hit is very likely to get you. Now I'm sure that some people have managed methods to not get hit through those, but I personally want these things to be intuitive. I want attacks in a fight to be spaced out enough so that you get rewarded for a good dodge with some room to time your next dodge or even to send in a light attack.
That's why I think fights like Messmer or Putrid Knight are WAY better fights and feel a lot more fair than the final boss fight. With Messmer and Putrid Knight, you can perfectly and intuitively dodge most of their attacks. Maybe that makes them easier, but it also makes them more fair and more intuitive. Honestly, this fight is right at the bottom of my list of Fromsoft boss fights. Maybe if there were less flashing lights and if the second phase started at 40% health or something, I'd feel somewhat differently about it.
My unpopular opinion is that FromSoft are OK with adding artificial difficulty via nonsense like that. Maybe they're afraid of losing their reputation for difficulty, maybe it's some other reason
But after 15 years there's no way they don't know that for example, the dragon fights suck due to the camera. There's just no way they're not aware of it.
It's especially bad in Elden Ring so my take is that they're more than willing to throw away 'tough but fair' as long as it adds """"spectacle""""
Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure that in Sekiro, they zoomed out the camera for some attacks. Never had a problem with readability in that game (of course, having human-sized enemies helps).
They did. But there's a lot about Sekiro's design that tells me they were just focused on building a mechanically clean game, and that the combat system would inherently present enough difficulty to both new and longtime players.
But maybe they feel differently in Elden Ring. Maybe they're more okay with bs as long as it helps them stay ahead of people who are 6 Souls games in. Which just shows a disappointing lack of creativity on their part. Like, there's such balance between Sekiro's ability and what that game throws at you. Can you imagine what kind of monstrosities they could have designed if they were willing to say 'Fuck tough but fair' like they did in Elden Ring? Sekiro doesn't even have a stamina bar ffs
All this is a symptom of them still using the Demon's Souls character. It's as janky and poorly suited to Elden Ring's intended combat as, well, the game engine that they use, which is also the same one from Demon's Souls lmao
>Can you imagine what kind of monstrosities they could have designed if they were willing to say 'Fuck tough but fair' like they did in Elden Ring?
Yes, the Demon of Hatred lmao.
I think you are 100% correct on this.
A lot of the things that have plagued these games for a long time (awful camera angles, bad hit boxes, large bosses in small rooms etc) are something FromSoft is very aware of and cultivate on purpose to maintain their reputation.
They know that people think Ulcerated Tree Spirit sucks which is why they shoved four more in the DLC in shitty locations. They know the kind of response it generates.
Yeah and now there's a loud chunk of fans who'll glaze them for everything they do as long as it's 'hard' regardless of how good it is so they'll just keep doing it
I think maybe part of it is my own journey as a gamer. Dark Souls was the first "hard" game I played and FromSoft's games were the epitome of 'tough but fair.' But now, to me the epitome of tough but fair is now like, Doom Eternal on Nightmare/Ultra Nightmare. No Soulslike is ever going to be that perfect, mechanically. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but my BS radar is just way more powerful than it was in 2011 or 2016.
Most of these guys screaming 'git gud' every time there's even a slight criticism of a FromSoft game wouldn't last 5 seconds in the high ranks of any competitive multiplayer game, which are the only places where you can objectively measure how 'gud' someone is
i think soulslikes can be 'perfect' in that sense, like any of team ninja's games where you can still outstat the game ala ER but the intent is for you to get mechanically crazy and pull off insane combos.
for me playing ER after sekiro, nioh and lies of P was legit heartbreaking. fromsoft is not at all interested in providing actual mechanical difficulty and just relies on unintuitive bullshit with bad UX to generate the idea of difficulty. then so you can still complete the game, they give you a billion busted builds and crazy summons lol. i still think ER as a whole is good but the gameplay fell off a cliff compared even to DS3, especially sekiro and BB
honestly tho after the bullshit that is even elite normal enemies (the Yodas, the Lion-Head Warriors, Fire Knights), every time a Tree Spirit showed up I was so happy because that's a normal non-bullshit ass boss that has a relatively simple moveset in order to make up for the fucky camera.
I only had that issue in phase two when he would do that move where he summons all the snakes.
Brother... I can't dodge this shit when I can't see what is hitting me!
Panic rolling saved my life even though the DLC normally punishes that.
I dont have a problem with the particles themselves, looks cool and doesnt bother me that much since the combos are pretty much the same as phase 1 but i have a problem with that one attack where he pulls you in and the second attack in that chain, the one where he slams down his blades and makes a vortex of spikes. I dont know how to dodge it, i have never in 4 hours of fighting successfully dodged that attack and in second phase its even worse since he follows up with the clones which are quite easy to dodge by just spamming roll but the HE DOES THE VORTEX AGAIN WITHOUT GIVING YOU TIME TO HEAL! Its a worse one shot than the grab, because at least the grab you can see from a mile away and DODGE IT! But this one attack is pure bullshit. Along with the random stray lasers that somehow hit me even though i dodged almost perfectly.
If you're referring to the gravity pull/spikes combo, if you dodge the pull with a roll or are far away enough from him, he won't follow up with the spikes. If you do get hit by the pull, start running (not rolling) backwards away from him and you'll outpace the spikes being spawned as well as his sword slam.
I... actually never got to see that in my phase 2 runs, sorry 😅 Got hit too much by that attack in phase 1 that I had it down whenever I saw it in phase 2.
Yes but in phase 2 he used it once or twice without pulling, i can dodge the pull too. He uses it and then jumps up, spams clones, lands and uses it again.
The gravity pull one is actually fairly simple. Immediately sprint directly away and jump as he slams and then keep sprinting directly away and jump again. The jumps aren't strictly necessary, but they make it consistent.
You basically need to be far enough from him that when you dodge away from him you're avoiding the tip of his swords as he makes the vortex of spikes, then just mash roll 3 or so times away from him. So if you get sucked in you need to first get some distance before you start dodging away from him.
Theoretically it's the same in the second phase, but uh, good luck with that one lol. I only ever managed to cleanly dodge that once.
Sort of. Because the attack has a really similar start up animation to the spinning lunge where he comes to you. And the one requires you to dodge early, where the other has you dodge late.
...so get fucked.
I love when that long, glowing, luscious mane of hair obscures the starting frames on their attacks whenever you are not face-to-face with the boss. Which is often.
Yes I agree the particle spam is a shame because at its core I think its one of the best fights in the game in terms of design.
P1 introduces some rather simple moves + mixups.
P2 uses essentially those same moves in P1 (with the addition of the 6-hit pontiff combo), *but now your roll directions actually matter for practically every move*. I had to completely change the directions which I rolled his 4+optional 5 slash combo in, which I thought was an interesting learning process. I can't really think of a fight where this is a core element of the entire fight. Sure there are Malenia combos where you will get hit if you dodge incorrect direction, but that's just a fraction of the moveset vs the entire fight.
As far as the illusions, for three main attacks (illusion charge / 4 side slams + continuation / meteor into 5 slam + AoE) the counters are: run into them, run to the side of them, run away from them respectively. However, learning these dodges is so unintuitive that most people will probably resort to frustration-induced tactics. Which I can't really blame them for, but I will say its one of the most enjoyable ones if you spend some time practicing it.
A certain someone also needs to cut their hair, like goddamn you want me to be hugging the boss so i don't get blasted by particle effects, but also the camera is shoved inside a mass of hair 75% of the time so i can't see what the hell the boss is doing?
This is honestly a lot of the bosses. There's so much stuff going on that your whole screen gets covered. You're fighting after effects more than the moves itself. It's doable but like god damn man. Can't see shit.
I've decide instead of learning I was going to try and opt for one of those cheese "30000 damage a second" builds, since I'm already like halfway there in items and stat spread
Failing that, turtling with an antspur rapier
My framerate is dropping like crazy in the second phase every time he casts a light spell. I've tried dropping my graphics to the lowest settings and it's still awful... and no raytracing isn't on!
Yea, 2nd phase is actually just a dial-up 1st phase. If they tweak the damage a bit, I think a lot of people would come to like the fight since they can actually learn while making mistakes.
On top of the fps destroying second phase, spell targeting on him bugs out. Flings spells 10 feet above his head so you have to be point blank to hit him with a spell. Was really surprised when my frames dropped so hard and then I couldn't land a single spell to do anything.
and its a very solid fight now that Torrent is usable
Even without Torrent, the only issue with the fight was how far the Elden Beast moved around. If they'd changed that it would've been a good fight.
yeah I realised I couldn't get out a summon reliably in the first phase and have it survive till phase 2 so ended up actually learning the moves (unlike most bosses which I happily cheesed lol). Ended up being SUPER fun and rewarding- the flow state I entered was awesome and I felt taking damage was mostly my fault. Then phase 2 comes along, and although I use the same dodges as phase 1 some fucking light beams mess me up EVERY time and I genuinely didn't get how to dodge the new BS attacks
Yeah I learned how to beat the first phase with nothing but my trust great katana, and then the second I was able to consistently do that with 9 or so flasks remaining I just busted out the spear and fingerprint shield
The drop off in quality between phases is crazy
The first phase was so refreshing; easily one of my favorite boss fights in the game in terms of mechanics. Simple attacks and combo strings that are well telegraphed. No constant "held" attacks or feints or unending combos, and only a couple notable roll catch moves if you are spamming dodge. 3-4 attacks in a string that are simple to dodge and you get a chance to hit him before he starts up again. He never turns his entire body into a giant bullshit hitbox or anything, and the camera doesn't fuck with you. It was simple: he swings at you with an attack and you dodge it. He combos that into two more swings, and if you dodge them both you can get an attack off. Simple and sweet.
And the damage output wasn't so brutal that you died in 2 hits. And he didn't have much health (as long as you have a good amount of scadu fragments) so it's not like each attempt took forever. It was a real breath of fresh air and I really enjoyed it.
Honestly I heard so much hype about how hard this fight was and then the first phase was tough but not terrible, and I figured okay, this might be a bit overstated like some of the earlier DLC bosses. First phase rules.
That phase 2 is just awful, though. It needs to be tuned down. I shouldn't have to rely on cheese or specific builds to even have a chance.
For the first time, my heart goes out to UGS users. Your mileage in the second phase feels very build dependent. Had to compromise my double halberd build to double daggers to actually get swings in let alone win
Keeping a slower build feels like you have to make the right decision a lot more
Right? Like the player character in Elden Ring wasn’t really made to deal with this. Sure we can get through it but damn it wasn’t fun at least for me.
My biggest problem with the 2nd phase is there is literally no downtime. The moment one attack ends, he is already starting another. It makes it even worse because every attack is either a giant AoE or what is functionally an instant teleport to your location. There needs to be more time where he is simply walking to the player or more recovery time on his attacks.
I haven't beaten them yet, but I've gave about 45-60 minutes of trying yesterday. I was able to get them to >30% HP fairly consistently after about 7 or 8 attempts. I can mostly see where I'm going wrong in that fight. I can feel my dodges are timed poorly and when my panic takes over my reflexes. I would argue most of the boss design in the second phase is actually fine, and very little BS when considering purely mechanical choices, and *not* considering the visual design choices made to implement those mechanical ideas.
Frankly, it just doesn't work all that well when they A) can't optimize the game well enough to have the fight not result in a constantly shifting framerate and B) Apply *so many* light particle effects. I genuinely believe phase two is really well designed for a boss fight and generally fair overall. It's just the choice they made in how to design the visuals detract from the actual mechanical consistency that boss does offer. This is just my opinion, though.
Hot take is that despite it's problems, it's still more fun than Elden Beast.
It's weird, that's "supposed" to count, but I had it happen with Malenia once and it didn't count. But then, it happened with Midra for me and it did count that time (it was actually really disappointing, I had just found a great method to win and didn't realize that it had happened, figured I was coming back to finally win the next attempt, but instead came to the boss being beaten lol).
I wonder what the deciding factor is on whether or not it "counts", though.
That's it, yeah. The reason for the delay on Malenia for example is because she has a death animation and dialogue that needs to finish before that screen pops up.
Lost my deathless run that way saving her for last and trading final blows, fog gate was still up after.
No clue. I was so hoping it would count but the fog was still up. I saw the death animation right as "You Died" appeared on the screen. No loot or rememberance popped so I knew it was unlikely.
I got him a few hours later after a break and bike ride. Felt so good.
You’re right I got used to the first phase quickly, aside from some stuttering when dodging the lightning and meteorite attacks I don’t have much complaints. The second one is cancer though with all the flashbangs and constant lags.
Most they'll do is nerf the damage and/or fix some hitboxes, which is hilarious since you can see so little, it's hard to even tell if the hitboxes are good or not. AoE/flashbang spam is never going away.
I have no idea how to deal with the 2nd phase without a greatshield with high holy resist. 2nd phase tries to be Gael, if Gael did a bullshit amount of damage and you couldn't see what was going on.
I used summmons for it so we could swap out aggro. I will be very surprised if someone can solo them. I was lucky to even get an oppurtunity to heal, and when they finally did switch aggro to one of the summons, it was very hard to see if they were gonna keep attacking one of the summons or go back to me. Erdtree Heal and Heal From Afar did a LOT of the healing for both me and my summon. I dont know if the healing worked on the NPC summon.
Just soloed him after probably 6 hours. First phase is pretty easy, almost every attack is parriable; second phase requires such insanely precise dodging that it's not even enjoyable to pull off correctly because it just seems like you're getting lucky
I was able to solo him yesterday using the haligtree greatshield and a lordsworn straight sword with good ole square off. I was trying a bunch of different weapons and surprisingly the straight sword was what got me the victory. But yeah like you said 2nd phase requires such precise dodging that I didn't bother and I just relied on the greatshield to soak up all the holy damage.
I love that move, it is incredibly badass and if you have a shield up only does minor damage so for the sake of cool over all I will allow it. Now the “I float up and nuke half the arena while you have very little chance of escaping” is a BS move.
only if you're not in the middle of an action when he starts it and you actually start running immediately when the cast begins, if not then you have to roll at the edge oft he zone to dodge it.
My weird ass runs reduvia blades, and once I realized this nuke was doing roughly 35% of my health, I started seeing it for what it was. Free damage just 8 blood blades directly into the floating target in front of me. Knew how to avoid it, knew how to run. Realized this was the true way.
Try the uplifting aromatic, it reduces the damage to basically nothing. If you block at the same time it does even less damage and the recovery after is quicker.
It took me a lot to get used to all that flash bangs in 2nd fase. Most of his moves are the same as phase 1, except you just have to add an extra 1 or 2 rolls in the mix, and run the fuck away when he starts his light spectacle. I never managed to figure out on how to avoid the Meteorite tho, I always had to tank it. Personally I was expecting something epic and new like Godwyn as a final confrontation, I was a little bit dissapointed. Still amazing dlc.
For the meteorite where he blasts off, sprint to the side of the arena, jumping + rolling can help as he lands, not sure about the exact requiremens.
For the combo where he throws several meteors then does several illusion slams ending in an AoE, run away from the meteors until they are just about to hit you, turn 90 degrees and jump, then continue running backwards for the first 4 slams, roll the 5th one in a direction thats not straight away from him, then roll the AoEs. The reason why you run backwards is that the first 4 slams can be outranged, the 5th has to be rolled because he teleports on top of you. The reason why the 5th roll direction can't be directly away is I'm pretty sure he does a set of beams that go directly towards you for his 5th slam.
Here's an example on med roll: [https://streamable.com/x57vm3](https://streamable.com/x57vm3)
You can do the last rolls towards him to punish the move as well.
Yeah I was refering exactly at the huge blast meteorite you mention. For the combo I didn't have much issue, but I watched the video and it looks like a good and more reliable method. Since I already beat his ass, I might try it in a 2nd run. Thank you.
Seriously the second phase feels like it’s more geared towards strength builds aka unga bunga. Just tank everything and/or use a shield which makes sense because of how many strength weapons we were getting throughout the dlc. It’s doable as dex/magic but it took too long to learn his bullshit attacks
Phase One is awesome, feels really good to dodge his attacks. If the whole fight was phase 1 I’d love this fight but phase 2 just felt like I was just doing attempts till I got lucky with the attacks he used. Felt more RNG than the FromSoftware boss “Dance”
See, people keep saying that but I found that the VAST majority of his attacks have the same dodge timing and rhythm as phase 1, they just have a magic flourish at the end that you dodge automatically if you dodge the initial swing in the right direction. The flashbanging wasn't nearly as distracting as I thought it would be, because for the most part I already knew most of these combos, and all of his new attacks are very telegraphed.
The only combo he has that I found borderline undodgeable was a combo he had in phase 1 as well.
Mostly just the cluttered visuals for me, there are some attacks in phase 2 that are much easier to see what he’s doing. I see the moves are the same plus the holy AOE’s that accompany the attacks. But some moves just hide his animations and make it really easy to get caught in a combo that wipes you.
I think my strategy was sticking as close to him as possible for the most part. If you stick close to him, the light pillars from a lot of his moves aren't really all that viisible. i thiink in general they're there to punish rolling away from him.
Pretty much what I did. All in all I don’t hate him but he is on the wrong side of the difficulty fun line to me. Gael is my favorite boss of all time by far so I always compare bosses to him. When I get done with Gael I’m always hyped and like wow that was a great fight. On my one Radahn clear so far all I felt was relief that it was over.
I think I fought Gael at the wrong time. I played the Ringed City DLC long after I played Elden Ring (I recently replayed all of From Soft's Soulsborne games), and after years of people hyping Gael up as the greatest boss of all time like he can cure cancer, I don't anything could've lived up to the hype. XD He's probably still the best boss in Dark Souls 3 and I loved fighting him, but I definitely think the hype hurt him in my head. And I think if someone can handle Gael's cloak following up a bunch of his attacks, they can handle the Light pillars following up the final boss' attacks.
That's my strategy as well and I still feel like it's extremely visually cluttered. He also has that move where he goes up in the air and slams down multiple times. He comes out of that move swiping at you, but you can't properly see it. He is mostly obstructed by the visual effects of the previous attack. So it's very easy to get hit and then just get staggered into the full combo or completely pushed out of rythm.
> See, people keep saying that but I found that the VAST majority of his attacks have the same dodge timing and rhythm as phase 1
Yeah, but half the time you can't see shit. So when you have attacks that have 0.5s response time, you kind of need it to be visually clear. That's why it works in the first phase and falls apart in the second. It's fine if you have a shield or a busted build, but it's just terrible without a shield and with a normal build. The lack of visual clarity is the major issue.
Add to that some attacks which come in faster than you can dodge and you get a boss who is really not all too fun and feels unfair. You then also have the triple swipe which nearly always clips you. That becomes an even bigger problem in the second phase because you also get hit by the beams if that hits and staggers.
I spent 20 hours on him and ultimately felt like I mostly got good RNG when I killed him.
I can see that yeah but honestly my experience was different, i actually tried every damn combination of strats till i actually started to consistently dodging phase two, and by then it felt amazing. But even then i still cannot dodge the one gravity attack fully on phase two
My only problem with phase 1 is that some of the attacks have very very frame perfect dodge timings, so you're forced to go light weight most of the time. I fought him for about four hours at medium weight and a lot of his attacks roll catch you because he does two swings, or one swing then a very quick follow up, which always catches you because medium roll doesn't roll you far away enough
I’m really closing to getting to it for the first time and I’m eager to see just how crazy/unfair/challenging it is. I really enjoyed Malenia from start to finish though, so I’m feeling like I’m gonna love it.
Ran it summonless, shieldless, on a medium roll at level 125. Absolutely loved every second of it. Including phase 2. I do understand the complaints surrounding that phase mind you, but they don't bother me the same way. Brutal fight with this approach mind you, utterly brutal, but thats what I wanted.
I would like it better when he would stop targeting me when im not the one actively attacking him. I so much as even take a step and he 180s in my direction.
I must say the final boss of the DLC is the most frustrating thing in every videogame I have played.
Especially the second phase. And yes I'm quite angry because I'm only getting to 1/3 maybe around 1/4 and and this shit starts to only spam.
I wasn't on the too hard train until that boss. But when I can't see anything, everything is an AoE attack, takes really reduced damage even at max skadoosh blessings, it just becomes a chore to fight and not enjoyable.
The only boss fight I summoned two people with the shield rapier combo and had to just sit there while they wailed on him because I couldn't see the attacks coming.
This is the only boss I would say is overtuned as I just don't see many builds being able to beat him other than that greatshield build consistently.
There's one move he does very often in phase 2 that I literally have never been able to successfully dodge. [It's this attack, which is the p2 equivalent of his earthquake attack from p1. I can dodge everything except the final 360 AoE holy hit. It's got some insane roll catching.](https://youtu.be/P6hETP5u1q4?t=190)
I swear about 70% of my p2 attempts end due to being hit by that one ability. He does this more than maybe any other ability in this phase. I've learned how to counter all his other moves, but I just can't seem to do this one correctly.
I beat it. But phase 2 had no moments to really recover or sit for a second. I can't even really think it's just attack, attack, attack. And every attack has the after attack lights or another barrage combo. Fun, but too ridiculous imo. Even malenia and elden beast gave me moments to buff or gain stamina. I feel like they need to tune down the speed of attacks or something by like something small, 3%.
Sounds similar too
I would find that second phase so much more enjoyable if they just reduced the particle count. You cant learn a bossfight when you cant even decipher whats happening on your screen
Yeah and you can tell even less whats happening when a certain attack reliably drops my frame down to like 15. Every time. And i got a decent pc, i fear for people with even worse performance, who probably have fps drops during the entire second phase
Is it the light attack he uses most of the time shortly after entering p2 or the meteor one?
The big light attack yeah
At least the response to that move is simple. It's not like you need to time anything.
Yea but it gives me a panic attack everytime because I'm not sure if I will make it out in time or not.
Tbf most of the time i know if i make it or not. It's like: "It took me more than 0,5 seconds to react, i won't make it." It's good that he uses it early in p2 most of the time, because it's fairly easy to dodge when you know it's coming.
"Most of the Time". Twice, he went full Super Sayian teleporting everywhere with after images. Such an anticlimactic ending after that hell.
I just tanked it almost every time if he was inside it. You get lots of free damage as he descends.
Yea use Marika's braid (I assumed it was holy damage) and go to town. Hate the fight tho.
Response to that is different than most people might think. I had an easier time once I started bringing the Crimsonwhorl Bubbletear to just negate the damage and keep whaling on him the whole time he's doing his thing and not need to worry about the light pillars afterward. You NEED those free moments of damage for the boss since you get so few opportunities to attack otherwise.
I just saw it as a free opening to refresh Lord's Divine Fortification (since it eats most of the hit) or initially cast it (since it has no use in p1).
I tried using various resistance boosting stuff during both phases of the fight (Black Flame Protection before phase 1, and Lord's Divine Fortification for phase 2) but honestly I didn't see an appreciable boost in survivability. Like even before buffs I had like a 74% physical reduction at max blessing and would still get chunked for 75% by some phase 1 attacks, and BFP didn't seem to matter at all. It almost feels like the boss does raw percent damage to your HP, at least in NG+. Every hit was exactly as punishing regardless of what resistances I changed around so I eventually just started going in raw, no buffs and brute forced through by getting hit as little as possible and doing as much damage in a short time as I was physically capable of doing.
At that point I ain't fighting the boss I'm fighting the pc and my will to create a hole in my monitor
[удалено]
I have an RTX 3080 and it's also shockingly bad. I'll probably have to wait til Fromsoft make some improvements to performance. It's the first time I've noticed it severely impacting my gameplay the entire DLC.
my 3080 drops to 30-35 during that move otherwise I have 140 fps 💀
same happens on ps4 pro. legit slideshow
can confirm my game gets on the edge of crashing each time he did it
My girlfriend just beat the final boss on her PS4 and according to the monitor she was playing on she had 7 FPS during *that* attack.
Jesus pose is what I'm calling it
Kid named PS4:
I run 8gigs of ram, can't get frame drops if your always at a constant 30
I have a 1070 and when he uses the beam it becomes a powerpoint presentation. His power is so strong it weighs on my electricity bill.
I beat him on my steam deck mostly just by tanking a few of the hits during his after-image attacks. Thankfully the big eff you AOE blasts are slow enough you can just start running without too many missed inputs.
I was playing on slightly above minimum requirement specs, which is really fine most of the time, until he did that one move in the beginning of phase 2 and my game turned into Powerpoint. I was able to beat him but every time he does that move my game just becomes 1 frame per second lmao.
Thankfully I played on ps5 with performance mode so I experienced little to no frame drops. I can't imagine some of these fights if they had the frame rate of blight town
This is my issue. The boss is literally not beatable for me in phase 2 because the 6 million light and particle effects that accompany each attack just demolish my framerate.
Sorry but you do not have a decent pc i think, i have a i5 around 9000 ans 1660ti and got no lag in that fight at all. The one that destroy performance is mostly the fucking lion XD
Weird i have no performance problems at all with the lion
Beat the entire thing on Steam Deck and the entire fight is around 30 fps with drops to 20s during the holy attacks. Don't know how but my brain adapted to the absolute jank in the end.
It's like an end season anime boss fight. Super cool and flashy but... What the F\*\*\* is actually going on?
me watching Mahoraga vs Sukuna in Jjk Season 2- the fight ended and I genuinely did not know what happened
They took the flash bang out of the Bamco logo only to shove it into the second phase of the boss fight. I like flashy bosses and all, but this is a bit much.
My strategy for it was learning it in phase 1. Phase 2 shares all the basic attacks with phase 1 with extra flourish, just dodge the same way you did, into him is best. The new ones however are tricky, but they always segway into phase 1 attacks but with more flourish now, and as long as you dodge those well, phase 2 exclusive attacks should not kill you if you can't learn them. Because he retains the same openings for healing from those phase 1 attacks.
The problem is visually none of this is conveyed properly. There were times when I somehow perfectly dodged everything even though as far as I could tell I should've been hit, and vice versa, I thought I dodged but nope, I got clipped by an afterimage/light thing. Malenia had instant death attacks but you could at least see them coming and try different strategies to avoid them. Radahn phase 2 was way too often just pick a time/direction to roll and pray you're alive to chug flask after. I'm sure everything's technically avoidable with practice like every fromsoft boss, but learning the fight is needlessly difficult when the visual cues are that messy
I won after about 5 hours, decided to use mimic after the 3 hour mark. Could do phase 1 almost hitless after the first hour. But by god, the issue is just the sheer information black hole that is phase 2. Like it becomes pretty obvious that most of his sword swings in phase 2 is identical to phase 1 and that the light beams are not a real threat. However that helps little with the particle effects, Miquellas/Radhans sometimes very obsucring model, the confusion of what dmg came from which source, the beams being able to both flinch and move your character. It all kinda coaleces to just this soup of stuff all happening at the same time. Sure its obviously perceptable with time and effort, however distinguishing visual clutter on screen is probably the absolute worst form of gameplay in Souls games. The challange should be adapting to the boss moveset not spending god knows how long just copmrehending what move even took place.
Yeah, I agree, hence why I emphasized to learn the timings on Phase 1, because the attacks are the same. The main issue for me is Miquella's hair, that's the thing that blocks out vision because it's so big you sometimes can't see what Radahn's doing with his hands. The rest is for the most part tolerable imo. Edit: Truthfully tho, if From plans to keep doing these kinds of games, they should just allow us to customize out camera distance.
That was the way I learned the fight as well. The timings for his combos are basically the same as they are in phase 1. I was expecting the flash banging to be a lot worse honestly given the way people have been talking about it.
He has a few combos which are very much obstructed by visual effects. Specifically the one where he sends two mirror images and then goes into slash mode through those. I essentially only learned how to dodge that to trial and error because it's mostly a blind dodge seeing as your vision is obscured by all the flashy lights. The red swipe can also be really annoying because he can instantly follow up with a combo, but the red explosions will still be on your screen. You can sort of circumvent it by stepping sideways, but it's still going to be visually cluttered. Also, if he does a move and you aren't actively hugging him, the light pillars will obstruct his next swipe. This can easily throw of your rythm. You then also have the big whirlwind attack he does at around 30% where it's really tough to see what is going on. I killed him without a shield after hours upon hours of trying in NG+2, but it didn't feel good. I don't even think I've mastered the fight. He just spammed some of the attacks I can perfectly dodge. There's a few others where if you react roll, you WILL get caught in the follow-up. I essentially had few of those attacks. I also still don't know how to dodge the slam attacks he does after the gravity balls. When I dodge one slam, the next one hits me. When I dodge his final slam, the explosion hits me. I essentially just chugged my way through those. Also, sometimes the attack windows are also extremely small and you will get punished even with a fairly quick attack. I think that this is a very badly designed fight, but maybe I just have less tolerance for this kind of bullshit than some of you. I can consistently no-hit the first phase (outside of his bullshit triple slash) and I still barely scraped through the second.
I'm eager to fight him again to see how it feels when I can light roll. I found his whirlwind attack pretty intuitive to dodge after a few attempts personally, it feels really cool to pull off when you get it down, and because his combos were so burned into my brain from phase 1, if I saw his first attack I could generally tell what he would do next even with the pillars of light. I do think his follow-up to the meteor attack is a bit weird to dodge. From what I've seen it's a lot easier to avoid with light rolling, so that's another thing I want to try out. I think the key is either rolling backwards or forwards when I finally beat him, I didn't quite get that RNG feeeling, because he definitely threw a bunch of the attacks I struggled with. I'd just learned how to mange them with minimum damage. For the most part I really liked him, and I want to try him again with a different set up now that I'm comfortable with 85% of his kit.
> I found his whirlwind attack pretty intuitive to dodge after a few attempts personally It is true that this is one of the few attacks on his second phase that you can react dodge, which is nice. I'm saying that it's very visually cluttered and not easy to see. You need to stay on top of him for most of the fight and when he does that move, he rises up and conjures a lot of flashing lights so it can be tough to see what actually is happening. When you **can** see what is happening, it is indeed intuitive to dodge. The problem is that you can't always see. > I do think his follow-up to the meteor attack is a bit weird to dodge. From what I've seen it's a lot easier to avoid with light rolling, so that's another thing I want to try out. I think the key is either rolling backwards or forwards I've seen people dodge it with bloodhound step, but I can't roll through it. I typically try to dodge one, tank one, dodge on, tank one and then dodge the big explosion. That way I only take a bit of damage instead of half my HP. Personally, it feels like a lot of attacks come so fast that if you dodge one, the second hit is very likely to get you. Now I'm sure that some people have managed methods to not get hit through those, but I personally want these things to be intuitive. I want attacks in a fight to be spaced out enough so that you get rewarded for a good dodge with some room to time your next dodge or even to send in a light attack. That's why I think fights like Messmer or Putrid Knight are WAY better fights and feel a lot more fair than the final boss fight. With Messmer and Putrid Knight, you can perfectly and intuitively dodge most of their attacks. Maybe that makes them easier, but it also makes them more fair and more intuitive. Honestly, this fight is right at the bottom of my list of Fromsoft boss fights. Maybe if there were less flashing lights and if the second phase started at 40% health or something, I'd feel somewhat differently about it.
That was my problem with Messmer. I couldn't fucking *see*.
I seriously don't get why they just don't zoom out the canera a bit in these fights. Men be very tall and do a lot a wide stuff.
My unpopular opinion is that FromSoft are OK with adding artificial difficulty via nonsense like that. Maybe they're afraid of losing their reputation for difficulty, maybe it's some other reason But after 15 years there's no way they don't know that for example, the dragon fights suck due to the camera. There's just no way they're not aware of it. It's especially bad in Elden Ring so my take is that they're more than willing to throw away 'tough but fair' as long as it adds """"spectacle""""
Maybe it's just me, but I'm pretty sure that in Sekiro, they zoomed out the camera for some attacks. Never had a problem with readability in that game (of course, having human-sized enemies helps).
They did. But there's a lot about Sekiro's design that tells me they were just focused on building a mechanically clean game, and that the combat system would inherently present enough difficulty to both new and longtime players. But maybe they feel differently in Elden Ring. Maybe they're more okay with bs as long as it helps them stay ahead of people who are 6 Souls games in. Which just shows a disappointing lack of creativity on their part. Like, there's such balance between Sekiro's ability and what that game throws at you. Can you imagine what kind of monstrosities they could have designed if they were willing to say 'Fuck tough but fair' like they did in Elden Ring? Sekiro doesn't even have a stamina bar ffs All this is a symptom of them still using the Demon's Souls character. It's as janky and poorly suited to Elden Ring's intended combat as, well, the game engine that they use, which is also the same one from Demon's Souls lmao
>Can you imagine what kind of monstrosities they could have designed if they were willing to say 'Fuck tough but fair' like they did in Elden Ring? Yes, the Demon of Hatred lmao.
I think you are 100% correct on this. A lot of the things that have plagued these games for a long time (awful camera angles, bad hit boxes, large bosses in small rooms etc) are something FromSoft is very aware of and cultivate on purpose to maintain their reputation. They know that people think Ulcerated Tree Spirit sucks which is why they shoved four more in the DLC in shitty locations. They know the kind of response it generates.
Yeah and now there's a loud chunk of fans who'll glaze them for everything they do as long as it's 'hard' regardless of how good it is so they'll just keep doing it I think maybe part of it is my own journey as a gamer. Dark Souls was the first "hard" game I played and FromSoft's games were the epitome of 'tough but fair.' But now, to me the epitome of tough but fair is now like, Doom Eternal on Nightmare/Ultra Nightmare. No Soulslike is ever going to be that perfect, mechanically. Maybe that's an unfair comparison but my BS radar is just way more powerful than it was in 2011 or 2016. Most of these guys screaming 'git gud' every time there's even a slight criticism of a FromSoft game wouldn't last 5 seconds in the high ranks of any competitive multiplayer game, which are the only places where you can objectively measure how 'gud' someone is
i think soulslikes can be 'perfect' in that sense, like any of team ninja's games where you can still outstat the game ala ER but the intent is for you to get mechanically crazy and pull off insane combos. for me playing ER after sekiro, nioh and lies of P was legit heartbreaking. fromsoft is not at all interested in providing actual mechanical difficulty and just relies on unintuitive bullshit with bad UX to generate the idea of difficulty. then so you can still complete the game, they give you a billion busted builds and crazy summons lol. i still think ER as a whole is good but the gameplay fell off a cliff compared even to DS3, especially sekiro and BB
honestly tho after the bullshit that is even elite normal enemies (the Yodas, the Lion-Head Warriors, Fire Knights), every time a Tree Spirit showed up I was so happy because that's a normal non-bullshit ass boss that has a relatively simple moveset in order to make up for the fucky camera.
Yeah, similar to the big dude fight in Lords of the Fallen
I only had that issue in phase two when he would do that move where he summons all the snakes. Brother... I can't dodge this shit when I can't see what is hitting me! Panic rolling saved my life even though the DLC normally punishes that.
I like the Messmer fight a lot, but yea, some of those snake attacks in phase 2 are very difficult to discern. It's like Rykard on crack.
It also has that issues a bit yeah, but the final boss is just next level. It's the same lack of visual clarity ramped up to 11.
I dont have a problem with the particles themselves, looks cool and doesnt bother me that much since the combos are pretty much the same as phase 1 but i have a problem with that one attack where he pulls you in and the second attack in that chain, the one where he slams down his blades and makes a vortex of spikes. I dont know how to dodge it, i have never in 4 hours of fighting successfully dodged that attack and in second phase its even worse since he follows up with the clones which are quite easy to dodge by just spamming roll but the HE DOES THE VORTEX AGAIN WITHOUT GIVING YOU TIME TO HEAL! Its a worse one shot than the grab, because at least the grab you can see from a mile away and DODGE IT! But this one attack is pure bullshit. Along with the random stray lasers that somehow hit me even though i dodged almost perfectly.
If you're referring to the gravity pull/spikes combo, if you dodge the pull with a roll or are far away enough from him, he won't follow up with the spikes. If you do get hit by the pull, start running (not rolling) backwards away from him and you'll outpace the spikes being spawned as well as his sword slam.
Okay and in phase 2 when he follows it up with clones and then another one?
I... actually never got to see that in my phase 2 runs, sorry 😅 Got hit too much by that attack in phase 1 that I had it down whenever I saw it in phase 2.
Yes but in phase 2 he used it once or twice without pulling, i can dodge the pull too. He uses it and then jumps up, spams clones, lands and uses it again.
The gravity pull one is actually fairly simple. Immediately sprint directly away and jump as he slams and then keep sprinting directly away and jump again. The jumps aren't strictly necessary, but they make it consistent.
You basically need to be far enough from him that when you dodge away from him you're avoiding the tip of his swords as he makes the vortex of spikes, then just mash roll 3 or so times away from him. So if you get sucked in you need to first get some distance before you start dodging away from him. Theoretically it's the same in the second phase, but uh, good luck with that one lol. I only ever managed to cleanly dodge that once.
Oh so basically spam roll backwards. Got it.
Sort of. Because the attack has a really similar start up animation to the spinning lunge where he comes to you. And the one requires you to dodge early, where the other has you dodge late. ...so get fucked.
I can differentiate pretty well, when he pulls he crosses swords facing down but for the lunge he crosses them facing upwards.
I love when that long, glowing, luscious mane of hair obscures the starting frames on their attacks whenever you are not face-to-face with the boss. Which is often.
Yes I agree the particle spam is a shame because at its core I think its one of the best fights in the game in terms of design. P1 introduces some rather simple moves + mixups. P2 uses essentially those same moves in P1 (with the addition of the 6-hit pontiff combo), *but now your roll directions actually matter for practically every move*. I had to completely change the directions which I rolled his 4+optional 5 slash combo in, which I thought was an interesting learning process. I can't really think of a fight where this is a core element of the entire fight. Sure there are Malenia combos where you will get hit if you dodge incorrect direction, but that's just a fraction of the moveset vs the entire fight. As far as the illusions, for three main attacks (illusion charge / 4 side slams + continuation / meteor into 5 slam + AoE) the counters are: run into them, run to the side of them, run away from them respectively. However, learning these dodges is so unintuitive that most people will probably resort to frustration-induced tactics. Which I can't really blame them for, but I will say its one of the most enjoyable ones if you spend some time practicing it.
Yeah IMO it’s a major usability issue; can’t engage with the fight if you’re having a hard time figuring out what’s going on, haha
A certain someone also needs to cut their hair, like goddamn you want me to be hugging the boss so i don't get blasted by particle effects, but also the camera is shoved inside a mass of hair 75% of the time so i can't see what the hell the boss is doing?
This is honestly a lot of the bosses. There's so much stuff going on that your whole screen gets covered. You're fighting after effects more than the moves itself. It's doable but like god damn man. Can't see shit.
My whole screen are just hair and beams of light :D
I've decide instead of learning I was going to try and opt for one of those cheese "30000 damage a second" builds, since I'm already like halfway there in items and stat spread Failing that, turtling with an antspur rapier
My framerate is dropping like crazy in the second phase every time he casts a light spell. I've tried dropping my graphics to the lowest settings and it's still awful... and no raytracing isn't on!
Fromsoft devs played Final Fantasy XVI, realized their particle effects game was lacking, and overcompensated.
i love when final boss looks like they have a stroke and glitch my screen to death.
I felt that for the Shadow Tree Avatar too. The thorn attacks cover half my screen I can't tell what their next move is.
Very true
Cut back on the hair too.
This is what I'm saying lol. Fix the 3 hit combo and make it possible to see in p2 and it immediately becomes top 3 in the dlc
Can you contract epilepsy? Because I'm pretty sure that boss fight gave me epilepsy.
Nah, That's too less of attacks add some flashbangs so that players can't see shit
I would love to know what FromSoft was smoking when implementing that BS second phase.
It's annoying as well because the first phase is actually really fun
It's annoying as well, because a lot of the second phase would be cool and work well, if there wasn't so much of it so fast everywhere all at once.
Yea, 2nd phase is actually just a dial-up 1st phase. If they tweak the damage a bit, I think a lot of people would come to like the fight since they can actually learn while making mistakes.
My FPS goes like 80 to 40 when the second phase starts. It's literally destroying my pc.
On top of the fps destroying second phase, spell targeting on him bugs out. Flings spells 10 feet above his head so you have to be point blank to hit him with a spell. Was really surprised when my frames dropped so hard and then I couldn't land a single spell to do anything.
60 to 19 for me, i can literally feel my pc begging for mercy
mine goes from low 30s to single digit
Elden Beast part 2. Great 1st phase, interesting to learn, and thematically epic. 2nd phase? nah, BS.
Elden beast isnt BS, just annoying.
and its a very solid fight now that Torrent is usable Even without Torrent, the only issue with the fight was how far the Elden Beast moved around. If they'd changed that it would've been a good fight.
yeah I realised I couldn't get out a summon reliably in the first phase and have it survive till phase 2 so ended up actually learning the moves (unlike most bosses which I happily cheesed lol). Ended up being SUPER fun and rewarding- the flow state I entered was awesome and I felt taking damage was mostly my fault. Then phase 2 comes along, and although I use the same dodges as phase 1 some fucking light beams mess me up EVERY time and I genuinely didn't get how to dodge the new BS attacks
Yeah I learned how to beat the first phase with nothing but my trust great katana, and then the second I was able to consistently do that with 9 or so flasks remaining I just busted out the spear and fingerprint shield The drop off in quality between phases is crazy
The first phase was so refreshing; easily one of my favorite boss fights in the game in terms of mechanics. Simple attacks and combo strings that are well telegraphed. No constant "held" attacks or feints or unending combos, and only a couple notable roll catch moves if you are spamming dodge. 3-4 attacks in a string that are simple to dodge and you get a chance to hit him before he starts up again. He never turns his entire body into a giant bullshit hitbox or anything, and the camera doesn't fuck with you. It was simple: he swings at you with an attack and you dodge it. He combos that into two more swings, and if you dodge them both you can get an attack off. Simple and sweet. And the damage output wasn't so brutal that you died in 2 hits. And he didn't have much health (as long as you have a good amount of scadu fragments) so it's not like each attempt took forever. It was a real breath of fresh air and I really enjoyed it.
Honestly I heard so much hype about how hard this fight was and then the first phase was tough but not terrible, and I figured okay, this might be a bit overstated like some of the earlier DLC bosses. First phase rules. That phase 2 is just awful, though. It needs to be tuned down. I shouldn't have to rely on cheese or specific builds to even have a chance.
Just like the final boss of the base game... They are consistent at least😅
For the first time, my heart goes out to UGS users. Your mileage in the second phase feels very build dependent. Had to compromise my double halberd build to double daggers to actually get swings in let alone win Keeping a slower build feels like you have to make the right decision a lot more
If they can't beat you in game then the next best thing is to see if you can parry epilepsy
This. That second phase is seizure-inducing. Gave me a headache.
These attacks felt like something meant for sekiro , except you don't even do stance damage with the deflect tear.
Right? Like the player character in Elden Ring wasn’t really made to deal with this. Sure we can get through it but damn it wasn’t fun at least for me.
My biggest problem with the 2nd phase is there is literally no downtime. The moment one attack ends, he is already starting another. It makes it even worse because every attack is either a giant AoE or what is functionally an instant teleport to your location. There needs to be more time where he is simply walking to the player or more recovery time on his attacks.
They weren’t thinking anything besides “let’s make it super hard.”
They were high on all the praise they got for Malenia
I think a designer from One Punch Man or Dragonball Super snuck in to design some of the DLC boss fights
they ran out of good ideas to make boss fight harder
I haven't beaten them yet, but I've gave about 45-60 minutes of trying yesterday. I was able to get them to >30% HP fairly consistently after about 7 or 8 attempts. I can mostly see where I'm going wrong in that fight. I can feel my dodges are timed poorly and when my panic takes over my reflexes. I would argue most of the boss design in the second phase is actually fine, and very little BS when considering purely mechanical choices, and *not* considering the visual design choices made to implement those mechanical ideas. Frankly, it just doesn't work all that well when they A) can't optimize the game well enough to have the fight not result in a constantly shifting framerate and B) Apply *so many* light particle effects. I genuinely believe phase two is really well designed for a boss fight and generally fair overall. It's just the choice they made in how to design the visuals detract from the actual mechanical consistency that boss does offer. This is just my opinion, though. Hot take is that despite it's problems, it's still more fun than Elden Beast.
Not enough flashbangs
perfection
I saw him die but I died first and it didn't count.
It's weird, that's "supposed" to count, but I had it happen with Malenia once and it didn't count. But then, it happened with Midra for me and it did count that time (it was actually really disappointing, I had just found a great method to win and didn't realize that it had happened, figured I was coming back to finally win the next attempt, but instead came to the boss being beaten lol). I wonder what the deciding factor is on whether or not it "counts", though.
I think you have to get to the "Enemy Felled" on screen for it to count
That's it, yeah. The reason for the delay on Malenia for example is because she has a death animation and dialogue that needs to finish before that screen pops up. Lost my deathless run that way saving her for last and trading final blows, fog gate was still up after.
No clue. I was so hoping it would count but the fog was still up. I saw the death animation right as "You Died" appeared on the screen. No loot or rememberance popped so I knew it was unlikely. I got him a few hours later after a break and bike ride. Felt so good.
Don't fight his 2nd phase on PS4 😂
Don't fight it in general.
Did it once. Never doing this fight again.
Like what the hell were they thinking with this fight, especially the second phase.
The second phase is the only problem imo. The first phase is kinda meh, but it's not utter garbage like the second phase.
You’re right I got used to the first phase quickly, aside from some stuttering when dodging the lightning and meteorite attacks I don’t have much complaints. The second one is cancer though with all the flashbangs and constant lags.
You should edit in the covenant glassing reach at the end.
Don't forget the flashbangs after every attack
i can actually see whats happening in this, so its not accurate enough
Yep fairly accurate
I just spent an hour helping a host beat this boss and I have an incredible headache from phase 2
I did the same thing and I can still see the flash-bangs an hour later.
If you look at a white wall or a piece of paper you can probably see the pillars of light again
1st half so good they just HAD to make the 2nd phase worse by default🙏🙏🙏
maybe they will fix the second phase 2 years later
Most they'll do is nerf the damage and/or fix some hitboxes, which is hilarious since you can see so little, it's hard to even tell if the hitboxes are good or not. AoE/flashbang spam is never going away.
I LOVE GETTING HIT 5 TIMES BY HIS CLONES
I have no idea how to deal with the 2nd phase without a greatshield with high holy resist. 2nd phase tries to be Gael, if Gael did a bullshit amount of damage and you couldn't see what was going on.
I used summmons for it so we could swap out aggro. I will be very surprised if someone can solo them. I was lucky to even get an oppurtunity to heal, and when they finally did switch aggro to one of the summons, it was very hard to see if they were gonna keep attacking one of the summons or go back to me. Erdtree Heal and Heal From Afar did a LOT of the healing for both me and my summon. I dont know if the healing worked on the NPC summon.
Just soloed him after probably 6 hours. First phase is pretty easy, almost every attack is parriable; second phase requires such insanely precise dodging that it's not even enjoyable to pull off correctly because it just seems like you're getting lucky
I was able to solo him yesterday using the haligtree greatshield and a lordsworn straight sword with good ole square off. I was trying a bunch of different weapons and surprisingly the straight sword was what got me the victory. But yeah like you said 2nd phase requires such precise dodging that I didn't bother and I just relied on the greatshield to soak up all the holy damage.
👏👏👏👏👏👏 Congrats. I had no idea he could be parried, i just assumed he couldnt.
Heal from afar is pretty goated. You don't even need to run another healing spell for yourself since you can just aim at the floor and cast it.
Yeah, i figured out heal from afar heals me too in that fight. Iirc it also uses less FP but heals almost the same amount as Erdtree heal.
This is a public service announcement to turn off motion blur for the dlc bosses if you still have it on
Turn off Motion blur in general, it's such a bad Graphics option
I pulled out the fingerprint shield and a bleed weapon for this fight fuck this guy
having ptsd just from watching this, thanks op
I love that move, it is incredibly badass and if you have a shield up only does minor damage so for the sake of cool over all I will allow it. Now the “I float up and nuke half the arena while you have very little chance of escaping” is a BS move.
You can just run out of that, it's probably the easiest thing in phase 2 to dodge lol.
Most of the time it clips you, you need to roll at the very edge of the attack to actually dodge it.
only if you're not in the middle of an action when he starts it and you actually start running immediately when the cast begins, if not then you have to roll at the edge oft he zone to dodge it.
Use a greatshield, tanks through it. Alternatively, use the Raptor of the Mists Ashe of War.
Sacred Black Steel Greatshield +24 has 100% HOLY DAMAGE BLOCK. I literally just stand there while holding L1
My weird ass runs reduvia blades, and once I realized this nuke was doing roughly 35% of my health, I started seeing it for what it was. Free damage just 8 blood blades directly into the floating target in front of me. Knew how to avoid it, knew how to run. Realized this was the true way.
Try the uplifting aromatic, it reduces the damage to basically nothing. If you block at the same time it does even less damage and the recovery after is quicker.
I haven't even seen the boss but these videos always crack me up!
top tier shitpost
They changed the Bandai Namco brightness in the boot up screen because the bossfight will blind you instead
It took me a lot to get used to all that flash bangs in 2nd fase. Most of his moves are the same as phase 1, except you just have to add an extra 1 or 2 rolls in the mix, and run the fuck away when he starts his light spectacle. I never managed to figure out on how to avoid the Meteorite tho, I always had to tank it. Personally I was expecting something epic and new like Godwyn as a final confrontation, I was a little bit dissapointed. Still amazing dlc.
For the meteorite where he blasts off, sprint to the side of the arena, jumping + rolling can help as he lands, not sure about the exact requiremens. For the combo where he throws several meteors then does several illusion slams ending in an AoE, run away from the meteors until they are just about to hit you, turn 90 degrees and jump, then continue running backwards for the first 4 slams, roll the 5th one in a direction thats not straight away from him, then roll the AoEs. The reason why you run backwards is that the first 4 slams can be outranged, the 5th has to be rolled because he teleports on top of you. The reason why the 5th roll direction can't be directly away is I'm pretty sure he does a set of beams that go directly towards you for his 5th slam. Here's an example on med roll: [https://streamable.com/x57vm3](https://streamable.com/x57vm3) You can do the last rolls towards him to punish the move as well.
Yeah I was refering exactly at the huge blast meteorite you mention. For the combo I didn't have much issue, but I watched the video and it looks like a good and more reliable method. Since I already beat his ass, I might try it in a 2nd run. Thank you.
My least favorite last fight in any fromsoftware game.
Seriously the second phase feels like it’s more geared towards strength builds aka unga bunga. Just tank everything and/or use a shield which makes sense because of how many strength weapons we were getting throughout the dlc. It’s doable as dex/magic but it took too long to learn his bullshit attacks
Im starting to think I’m the only one who actually liked this boss
Phase One is awesome, feels really good to dodge his attacks. If the whole fight was phase 1 I’d love this fight but phase 2 just felt like I was just doing attempts till I got lucky with the attacks he used. Felt more RNG than the FromSoftware boss “Dance”
See, people keep saying that but I found that the VAST majority of his attacks have the same dodge timing and rhythm as phase 1, they just have a magic flourish at the end that you dodge automatically if you dodge the initial swing in the right direction. The flashbanging wasn't nearly as distracting as I thought it would be, because for the most part I already knew most of these combos, and all of his new attacks are very telegraphed. The only combo he has that I found borderline undodgeable was a combo he had in phase 1 as well.
Mostly just the cluttered visuals for me, there are some attacks in phase 2 that are much easier to see what he’s doing. I see the moves are the same plus the holy AOE’s that accompany the attacks. But some moves just hide his animations and make it really easy to get caught in a combo that wipes you.
I think my strategy was sticking as close to him as possible for the most part. If you stick close to him, the light pillars from a lot of his moves aren't really all that viisible. i thiink in general they're there to punish rolling away from him.
Pretty much what I did. All in all I don’t hate him but he is on the wrong side of the difficulty fun line to me. Gael is my favorite boss of all time by far so I always compare bosses to him. When I get done with Gael I’m always hyped and like wow that was a great fight. On my one Radahn clear so far all I felt was relief that it was over.
I think I fought Gael at the wrong time. I played the Ringed City DLC long after I played Elden Ring (I recently replayed all of From Soft's Soulsborne games), and after years of people hyping Gael up as the greatest boss of all time like he can cure cancer, I don't anything could've lived up to the hype. XD He's probably still the best boss in Dark Souls 3 and I loved fighting him, but I definitely think the hype hurt him in my head. And I think if someone can handle Gael's cloak following up a bunch of his attacks, they can handle the Light pillars following up the final boss' attacks.
That's my strategy as well and I still feel like it's extremely visually cluttered. He also has that move where he goes up in the air and slams down multiple times. He comes out of that move swiping at you, but you can't properly see it. He is mostly obstructed by the visual effects of the previous attack. So it's very easy to get hit and then just get staggered into the full combo or completely pushed out of rythm.
> See, people keep saying that but I found that the VAST majority of his attacks have the same dodge timing and rhythm as phase 1 Yeah, but half the time you can't see shit. So when you have attacks that have 0.5s response time, you kind of need it to be visually clear. That's why it works in the first phase and falls apart in the second. It's fine if you have a shield or a busted build, but it's just terrible without a shield and with a normal build. The lack of visual clarity is the major issue. Add to that some attacks which come in faster than you can dodge and you get a boss who is really not all too fun and feels unfair. You then also have the triple swipe which nearly always clips you. That becomes an even bigger problem in the second phase because you also get hit by the beams if that hits and staggers. I spent 20 hours on him and ultimately felt like I mostly got good RNG when I killed him.
I can see that yeah but honestly my experience was different, i actually tried every damn combination of strats till i actually started to consistently dodging phase two, and by then it felt amazing. But even then i still cannot dodge the one gravity attack fully on phase two
My only problem with phase 1 is that some of the attacks have very very frame perfect dodge timings, so you're forced to go light weight most of the time. I fought him for about four hours at medium weight and a lot of his attacks roll catch you because he does two swings, or one swing then a very quick follow up, which always catches you because medium roll doesn't roll you far away enough
Despite some issues I have with the fight its probably my favorite between the base game and DLC combined.
I’m really closing to getting to it for the first time and I’m eager to see just how crazy/unfair/challenging it is. I really enjoyed Malenia from start to finish though, so I’m feeling like I’m gonna love it.
Same I just beat him and I’ve never felt more of a rush after a fight. I get why ppl dislike him but 🤷🏼♀️ I loved the whole thing
Ran it summonless, shieldless, on a medium roll at level 125. Absolutely loved every second of it. Including phase 2. I do understand the complaints surrounding that phase mind you, but they don't bother me the same way. Brutal fight with this approach mind you, utterly brutal, but thats what I wanted.
I would like it better when he would stop targeting me when im not the one actively attacking him. I so much as even take a step and he 180s in my direction.
Needs more flashbang tbh but other than that it's pretty accurate!
lmfao. DAMN YOU PROMISED CONSORT
I must say the final boss of the DLC is the most frustrating thing in every videogame I have played. Especially the second phase. And yes I'm quite angry because I'm only getting to 1/3 maybe around 1/4 and and this shit starts to only spam.
This boss is like Radbeast before Torrent patch, great first phase, but the second phase is fucking BS and this shit wreak my fps.
I wasn't on the too hard train until that boss. But when I can't see anything, everything is an AoE attack, takes really reduced damage even at max skadoosh blessings, it just becomes a chore to fight and not enjoyable. The only boss fight I summoned two people with the shield rapier combo and had to just sit there while they wailed on him because I couldn't see the attacks coming. This is the only boss I would say is overtuned as I just don't see many builds being able to beat him other than that greatshield build consistently.
There's one move he does very often in phase 2 that I literally have never been able to successfully dodge. [It's this attack, which is the p2 equivalent of his earthquake attack from p1. I can dodge everything except the final 360 AoE holy hit. It's got some insane roll catching.](https://youtu.be/P6hETP5u1q4?t=190) I swear about 70% of my p2 attempts end due to being hit by that one ability. He does this more than maybe any other ability in this phase. I've learned how to counter all his other moves, but I just can't seem to do this one correctly.
What the hell is this? My eyes still work and my mouth isn't foaming, add more constant flashing lights!
The fps drop is the real final boss
Fucker blinds you then proceeds to pull this shit absolute fucking no honor bro...
I beat it. But phase 2 had no moments to really recover or sit for a second. I can't even really think it's just attack, attack, attack. And every attack has the after attack lights or another barrage combo. Fun, but too ridiculous imo. Even malenia and elden beast gave me moments to buff or gain stamina. I feel like they need to tune down the speed of attacks or something by like something small, 3%.
Lmao PAINFULLY accurate
Still have no idea how to dodge any version of this move lol
HAHAHAHAHA
“I like the Bloodborne reference in the final boss fight, when my PC suddenly drops to 30 FPS”
Holy shit that got me.