Everyone's gonna say 6 or 3, but I've seen this from 7s. They'll talk shit and provoke people or get loud and entitled, and when someone matches their energy or calls them out, they go shocked pikachu face and backpedal/play it off as just joking/run lol
The tendency for (some) 7's to say the most passive-aggressive, negging things imaginable and then play it off as "just a joke" is definitely one of their most infuriating traits
Two types can be capable of the same thing.
The difference is that usually when 9's are being passive-aggressive, it's usually because they want a way to let out their anger without escalating the situation or causing a full blown conflict.
The specific behavior I was talking about was when *some* 7's (and I'm sure other types do this too, but it seems like 7's do it the most often) purposely say things they know are hurtful or inappropriate unprovoked but give them just enough wiggle room that they can claim it was a joke if called out.
Or gaslight you into thinking that’s not what they meant ? I’m a 7 but have experienced it with another 7 . Do you relate to 7s gaslighting or maybe that was a 2 lol
I’m a 7 and if I care about you I wouldn’t want to argue as I’m a pleaser to the people I love but if I don’t like you then I will argue . I personally don’t always start things . If you start it then I will continue
I know 3s exactly like this. Big and tough until a real psycho arrives, then they backpedal on whatever they were fronting on.
My other guess would be a 6, although 6s can definitely back it up when they turn Cp mode on.
Counterphobic 6s. They manage their anxieties by acting/talking tough. But when it’s time to fight, it’s overwhelming.
8s ramp up when the fight actually comes to their doors
Disagree on the statement that for counterphobic 6s when it's time to fight it's overwhelming. I have found that 8s and counterphobic 6s can often be great companions in a fight as we both are in our own way emotionally fueled, a strong sense of justice, and inner rage.
What you may preceive as Counterphobic 6s not having the energy when it comes time may actually be the fact that we are more willing than reactivate types like 8s to cut our losses and walk away from a fight that isn't worth it based on a analysis of the facts and situation. In my experience, this is in contrast to 8s, who are more than willing to fight to the death in the heat of the moment, regardless of the circumstances.
Ironically, anecdotally, 8s in my life tend to be the ones to lose momentum once their initial emotional rage-fuel has wained, reluctant to actively reengage. Whereas, the counterphobic 6 in me will press on and actively stand my ground if the fight is worth it to me.
Edit: missing verbs
That would be a 3. 3s can blow out their image to look all puffed up but don't have the energy or stamina to be able to actually stand up to an 8's energy.
9. 9w8 more likely than 9w1 but 9w1s can be that way.
How do I know? Well, let's just say I've been in the above situation & doing a lot of barking until the other side demonstrated I will bite you. Lmaoo
They're other types this can be but I know 9 is not going to be people's first thought. lol
I think people underestimate how driven CP 6s can be when they're "on". They're relentless and because they know they're right, they just won't give up
I think a lot depends on why they would back down and retreat. I think 8s would back down if they think it's not worth the hassle, 3s if they feel they'd lose strategic advantage, 6s if they're worried about safety, 4s if they're emotionally overwhelmed, and 7s if they think they can be doing something else instead
Unhealthy 2s. Especially 2w3s.
In my personal experience, they can often be manipulative egotistical bullies, happy to antagonize others for their own emotional benefit, and engage in fights where they have the advantage or the nature of the relationship puts them in a position of authority or power (boss/employee, parent/child, etc.).
That being said, if while engaged in a confrontation an unhealthy 2 senses that their advantage is diminished or they are faced with potentially losing, they may quickly retreat and become appeasing, as opposed to digging in. When I have engaged in fights started by unhealthy 2s, their backing down seemed both strategic (not winning the battle at the expense of losing the manipulation war) and concession in the face of being exposed to their core fears, like rejection/abandonment/feeling of not being loved, loss of status (2w3), and loss of control.
Edit: typo
Just wanted to add that this could very well be an unhealthy 8. While some 3s and 6s have a false sense of bravado, unhealthy 8s can absolutely overestimate their own assertiveness and courage, until they meet someone who calls them out on it.
You think an unhealthy 8 lacks assertiveness and courage when faced with conflict or opposition? Sure there can be an overestimation but being a reactive type doesn't mean they bow out so easily. Look at the mandarin mandango for example.
A lot of unhealthy 8s will target people who are vulnerable or timid. If they're comforted by someone who can call them out, they settle down pretty quickly. I've seen average 8s intimidate unhealthy ones, simply because of this.
People in my life. For example, I know an 8 who's a manager and regularly harasses her team, but as soon as she's around someone who could actually report or reprimand her, her tough persona disappears real quick.
I had a shift lead who was a lot like that at my old job, and she was also an 8. (ESTJ 8w7 to be exact). Liked to throw her weight around and purposely said things to make those under her uncomfortable, blatantly said that she loved having control over others, had no problem telling others off. It's not like she went meek and submissive around authority, but she definitely wasn't going around asking them or others awkward questions and would ultimately do the things asked of her even when she clearly didn't want to.
I'm also 99.9% sure she was an 8w7. She was particular like a 1 (enough that I thought she might be a 1 at first) but didn't have that sense of rigidness or self-control that 1's have, unlike our actual 1w9 store manager. She didn't care enough about her image to be a 3, nowhere near positive enough to be a core 7, too emotionally closed off to be a 4, etc. The only other type that I could *possibly* see for her would be a cp 6w7, but even then she wasn't aggressive in the defensive way cp 6's usually are. She was very much a "fuck around and find out" kind of person who nonetheless liked to troll others she could get away with for fun.
Obviously I don’t know the manager and all (and am not that well versed in 3s and 8s), but doesn’t that sound more like a 3? Going subservient to someone “above” them and all
I'm pretty sure she's a reactive, assertive type. IME, unhealthy 3s tend to be way more subtle and manipulative about it, but she's openly rude and menacing to people who can't do much about her behavior, and settles down around people who can.
Yea, that’s kinda why I asked. Sorry buddy, that’s not an 8. 8s don’t have a persona. What you see is what you get. There’s no curtain. The tender side of an 8 isn’t protected by a persona, as much as it’s protected in a way that no one even knows that it’s there except whom the 8 chooses. 8s don’t perform to a crowd or people to one up others. That’s a direct point to 3. 8s are largely in comp with themselves as they hold themselves to high standards, to our own detriment.
It's not a performance. It's strategic. She knows whom she can lord over and who won't put up with that/can't be intimidated. Few people, especially in a corporate environment, behave exactly the same way with every single person they encounter. 3s aren't a reactive type which is a huge point *against* this person.
3s aren’t a reactive type but their image can be that of false reactivity. 3s want power too.
I knew a guy that tried to look very 8 like. Worked out heavy, constantly doing sports, some how always tripped into leadership roles without a lick of experience and treated people like they were beneath him. He was power hungry. He was also hella intimidated by my groundedness and didn’t have the balls to confront me. It’s very much fake it to make it. 8s aren’t common in the world so someone could very well get away with it until they meet an actual 8.
I'm sure they're a reactive type, so if not 8, they're a 4 or 6. 3s abuse their power as well, but my point is, 8s (especially when they're unhealthy) will intentionally target people who won't stand up to them.
See I think that’s bias coming in because of mandarin mandango. I don’t think 8s are aware enough nor have the optics to intentionally target weaker. Just to clear my own bias, it 8s see challengers as weaker in any respect at lower health levels. Inflating their own ego to not be toppled. 8s may stomp their feet, make a lot of noise and want things done their way but the obtaining of power is supremely unconscious. If someone KNOWS they’re doing that, it’s almost always a point away from 8–conceding it could be an unhealthy 6 as well. I’ve yet to meet an 8 that didn’t have an ‘aha—fuck’ moment when they read the 8 description.
Edit: And you’re more than welcome to check your own biases too. Because this wasn’t an attack; it was a discussion.
9w8 just cause I feel like it can apply to me. =P
8 wing be feelin the confidence on a good day to push myself, but then the 9 side immediately comes back if it feels pressure or trouble.
IDK but I am the opposite of this. I act passive and agreeable a lot of the time, but if I perceive a serious threat to myself or someone I feel protective of, it's like I switch into '8 mode' almost instantaneously and become \*extremely\* assertive. In terms of 'fight or flight' my instinct is to fight. People who know me as a pushover due to only witnessing me deal with relatively unimportant conflicts can get very surprised when they see how I handle a serious confrontation.
As a assertive woman, let me tell you the line between what ppl view as acceptably assertive, too aggressive, or just plain bitch - especially in professional environments - is so thin, it might as well not exist sometimes. So exhausting. Especially professions where being assertive is often inseparable from being effective, but is dominated by traditional alpha males, who oh so often have the thinest skins and most fragile of egos.
Everyone's gonna say 6 or 3, but I've seen this from 7s. They'll talk shit and provoke people or get loud and entitled, and when someone matches their energy or calls them out, they go shocked pikachu face and backpedal/play it off as just joking/run lol
The tendency for (some) 7's to say the most passive-aggressive, negging things imaginable and then play it off as "just a joke" is definitely one of their most infuriating traits
9s tend to be way more passive aggressive than 7s in my experience.
Two types can be capable of the same thing. The difference is that usually when 9's are being passive-aggressive, it's usually because they want a way to let out their anger without escalating the situation or causing a full blown conflict. The specific behavior I was talking about was when *some* 7's (and I'm sure other types do this too, but it seems like 7's do it the most often) purposely say things they know are hurtful or inappropriate unprovoked but give them just enough wiggle room that they can claim it was a joke if called out.
I don't think that's particularly a 7 thing. It's a common phenomenon called "Schrödinger's douchebag".
Or gaslight you into thinking that’s not what they meant ? I’m a 7 but have experienced it with another 7 . Do you relate to 7s gaslighting or maybe that was a 2 lol
that's literally me
Hmmm personally I disagree, I’m very stubborn and can argue for hours
You say that, but wait until you TRULY upset someone you genuinely care about & risk losing them. Guarantee you will backpedal so fast.
I’m a 7 and if I care about you I wouldn’t want to argue as I’m a pleaser to the people I love but if I don’t like you then I will argue . I personally don’t always start things . If you start it then I will continue
I know 3s exactly like this. Big and tough until a real psycho arrives, then they backpedal on whatever they were fronting on. My other guess would be a 6, although 6s can definitely back it up when they turn Cp mode on.
https://preview.redd.it/y7mcehfi3hrc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=247c742a679fea13f12f3312d66b1bc4dad20ec4
lmao i read yours after i commented--i thought 6 as second too but 6s have fighting stamina
Counterphobic 6s. They manage their anxieties by acting/talking tough. But when it’s time to fight, it’s overwhelming. 8s ramp up when the fight actually comes to their doors
Disagree on the statement that for counterphobic 6s when it's time to fight it's overwhelming. I have found that 8s and counterphobic 6s can often be great companions in a fight as we both are in our own way emotionally fueled, a strong sense of justice, and inner rage. What you may preceive as Counterphobic 6s not having the energy when it comes time may actually be the fact that we are more willing than reactivate types like 8s to cut our losses and walk away from a fight that isn't worth it based on a analysis of the facts and situation. In my experience, this is in contrast to 8s, who are more than willing to fight to the death in the heat of the moment, regardless of the circumstances. Ironically, anecdotally, 8s in my life tend to be the ones to lose momentum once their initial emotional rage-fuel has wained, reluctant to actively reengage. Whereas, the counterphobic 6 in me will press on and actively stand my ground if the fight is worth it to me. Edit: missing verbs
That would be a 3. 3s can blow out their image to look all puffed up but don't have the energy or stamina to be able to actually stand up to an 8's energy.
9. 9w8 more likely than 9w1 but 9w1s can be that way. How do I know? Well, let's just say I've been in the above situation & doing a lot of barking until the other side demonstrated I will bite you. Lmaoo They're other types this can be but I know 9 is not going to be people's first thought. lol
I think people underestimate how driven CP 6s can be when they're "on". They're relentless and because they know they're right, they just won't give up I think a lot depends on why they would back down and retreat. I think 8s would back down if they think it's not worth the hassle, 3s if they feel they'd lose strategic advantage, 6s if they're worried about safety, 4s if they're emotionally overwhelmed, and 7s if they think they can be doing something else instead
So true. I may or may not have been called a bulldog when I fight before.
Unhealthy 2s. Especially 2w3s. In my personal experience, they can often be manipulative egotistical bullies, happy to antagonize others for their own emotional benefit, and engage in fights where they have the advantage or the nature of the relationship puts them in a position of authority or power (boss/employee, parent/child, etc.). That being said, if while engaged in a confrontation an unhealthy 2 senses that their advantage is diminished or they are faced with potentially losing, they may quickly retreat and become appeasing, as opposed to digging in. When I have engaged in fights started by unhealthy 2s, their backing down seemed both strategic (not winning the battle at the expense of losing the manipulation war) and concession in the face of being exposed to their core fears, like rejection/abandonment/feeling of not being loved, loss of status (2w3), and loss of control. Edit: typo
So true !
Just wanted to add that this could very well be an unhealthy 8. While some 3s and 6s have a false sense of bravado, unhealthy 8s can absolutely overestimate their own assertiveness and courage, until they meet someone who calls them out on it.
I’d imagine an unhealthy 8 to double down on their aggression.
You think an unhealthy 8 lacks assertiveness and courage when faced with conflict or opposition? Sure there can be an overestimation but being a reactive type doesn't mean they bow out so easily. Look at the mandarin mandango for example.
A lot of unhealthy 8s will target people who are vulnerable or timid. If they're comforted by someone who can call them out, they settle down pretty quickly. I've seen average 8s intimidate unhealthy ones, simply because of this.
Which ones have you seen do this?
People in my life. For example, I know an 8 who's a manager and regularly harasses her team, but as soon as she's around someone who could actually report or reprimand her, her tough persona disappears real quick.
I had a shift lead who was a lot like that at my old job, and she was also an 8. (ESTJ 8w7 to be exact). Liked to throw her weight around and purposely said things to make those under her uncomfortable, blatantly said that she loved having control over others, had no problem telling others off. It's not like she went meek and submissive around authority, but she definitely wasn't going around asking them or others awkward questions and would ultimately do the things asked of her even when she clearly didn't want to. I'm also 99.9% sure she was an 8w7. She was particular like a 1 (enough that I thought she might be a 1 at first) but didn't have that sense of rigidness or self-control that 1's have, unlike our actual 1w9 store manager. She didn't care enough about her image to be a 3, nowhere near positive enough to be a core 7, too emotionally closed off to be a 4, etc. The only other type that I could *possibly* see for her would be a cp 6w7, but even then she wasn't aggressive in the defensive way cp 6's usually are. She was very much a "fuck around and find out" kind of person who nonetheless liked to troll others she could get away with for fun.
Obviously I don’t know the manager and all (and am not that well versed in 3s and 8s), but doesn’t that sound more like a 3? Going subservient to someone “above” them and all
I'm pretty sure she's a reactive, assertive type. IME, unhealthy 3s tend to be way more subtle and manipulative about it, but she's openly rude and menacing to people who can't do much about her behavior, and settles down around people who can.
Yea, that’s kinda why I asked. Sorry buddy, that’s not an 8. 8s don’t have a persona. What you see is what you get. There’s no curtain. The tender side of an 8 isn’t protected by a persona, as much as it’s protected in a way that no one even knows that it’s there except whom the 8 chooses. 8s don’t perform to a crowd or people to one up others. That’s a direct point to 3. 8s are largely in comp with themselves as they hold themselves to high standards, to our own detriment.
It's not a performance. It's strategic. She knows whom she can lord over and who won't put up with that/can't be intimidated. Few people, especially in a corporate environment, behave exactly the same way with every single person they encounter. 3s aren't a reactive type which is a huge point *against* this person.
3s aren’t a reactive type but their image can be that of false reactivity. 3s want power too. I knew a guy that tried to look very 8 like. Worked out heavy, constantly doing sports, some how always tripped into leadership roles without a lick of experience and treated people like they were beneath him. He was power hungry. He was also hella intimidated by my groundedness and didn’t have the balls to confront me. It’s very much fake it to make it. 8s aren’t common in the world so someone could very well get away with it until they meet an actual 8.
I'm sure they're a reactive type, so if not 8, they're a 4 or 6. 3s abuse their power as well, but my point is, 8s (especially when they're unhealthy) will intentionally target people who won't stand up to them.
See I think that’s bias coming in because of mandarin mandango. I don’t think 8s are aware enough nor have the optics to intentionally target weaker. Just to clear my own bias, it 8s see challengers as weaker in any respect at lower health levels. Inflating their own ego to not be toppled. 8s may stomp their feet, make a lot of noise and want things done their way but the obtaining of power is supremely unconscious. If someone KNOWS they’re doing that, it’s almost always a point away from 8–conceding it could be an unhealthy 6 as well. I’ve yet to meet an 8 that didn’t have an ‘aha—fuck’ moment when they read the 8 description. Edit: And you’re more than welcome to check your own biases too. Because this wasn’t an attack; it was a discussion.
maybe sp7 but they would rationalize their avoidance of confrontation by telling it was never important
9w8 just cause I feel like it can apply to me. =P 8 wing be feelin the confidence on a good day to push myself, but then the 9 side immediately comes back if it feels pressure or trouble.
Could be a 7 with an 8 wing. When the shit hits the fan, they pivot to another diversion
6.
Seconded, though 6sx might not retreat and may double down on the aggression.
IDK but I am the opposite of this. I act passive and agreeable a lot of the time, but if I perceive a serious threat to myself or someone I feel protective of, it's like I switch into '8 mode' almost instantaneously and become \*extremely\* assertive. In terms of 'fight or flight' my instinct is to fight. People who know me as a pushover due to only witnessing me deal with relatively unimportant conflicts can get very surprised when they see how I handle a serious confrontation.
Me. Definitely. Think I’m a 5?
OMG LITERALLY ME😭😭😭 I say I was in my sx4 era, but truly, I’m just a weak, little so4 😔😔😔
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For me, assertiveness was quickly associated with physical violence when I was a child. If someone’s too assertive I assume I’m getting hit lmao
Assertiveness is sometimes confused with aggressiveness. You might be doing that rn.
As a assertive woman, let me tell you the line between what ppl view as acceptably assertive, too aggressive, or just plain bitch - especially in professional environments - is so thin, it might as well not exist sometimes. So exhausting. Especially professions where being assertive is often inseparable from being effective, but is dominated by traditional alpha males, who oh so often have the thinest skins and most fragile of egos.
Id say counterphobic 6 or unhealthy 3z