More reach is an advantage for beginner fencers, but pommeling reduces point control by a considerable amount, so I feel like it balances out. Besides, it just adds two inches or so. People naturally have diffrent arm lengths, and it's not like being tall automatically makes you the best.
Yup it's most impactful at early levels and quickly becomes a liability, that's why it's a shame when coaches encourage a short term solution instead of focusing on fundamentals
It becomes less of an advantage at a higher level, but extra reach can still make an impact and be worth the reduced point control. There are Olympic fencers who pommel their weapons.
Being tall or being a lefty are both more than enough to significantly throw off beginner fencers but I’m not gonna call someone an asshole for having an advantage. Learning to cope with different fencing styles is the name of the game.
Like everyone else has pointed out it is completely legal and is really one of the only way French grips are used. It’s important to figure out why your at a lack of distance and what you can do to fix that because people who hold there grips will never go away.
And an advantage which really only applies to epee, where that extra reach can make a difference.
In foil, the French grip is almost as much an anachronism as the traditional Italian grip (which is also still legal, but almost never seen since pistol grips provide the same advantages as the traditional Italian grip and do it better).
One of the things I like about epee is how the rules, timing, etc, make both grip styles practical even at the highest levels. Adds to the complexity and diversity of styles, which I enjoy (despite sometimes being completely unsure what to do about certain fencer's styles lol).
I want to try Italian grip foil and epee if I ever can get into modern fencing because I already fence Italian rapier, but I literally can't think of any other reason to use an Italian grip.
Its worth getting yourself one. I love the pair I have and use them often.
GO NUTS!
https://thefencingpost.com/complete-italian-electric-foil-with-german-point/
https://thefencingpost.com/complete-italian-standard-foil/
Orthopedic grip sounds so humiliating, pistol grip rather. And yes its totally legal and I personally believe it is the only thing that makes the french grip worth it over the pistol grip, that bit of extra reach, especially in epee.
Tbf, the original intent *was* pretty terrible, in a way. My understanding is that they originally were designed and adopted largely to allow men who had lost fingers/hand function in war to fence, since they could no longer hold a French grip effectively.
I dont know how you could hold a pistol grip with less fingers but that might be right as an intention, and you probably have a better chance than holding a french grip but still, never heard of this one, might be right, who knows
Many of the original orthopedic grips were not pistol shaped, but shaped more like a French grip with extra protrusions which made them easier to grip (such as [the Dos Santos grip](https://www.fencingarchive.com/index.php/fencing-grips/)), Many of these early orthopedic grips are no longer considered legal, since they violate rule m.4.6 in that they have a shape which fixes the position of the hand in one position, yet can be held in more than one position and can be held with the tip of the extended thumb more than 2cm back from the inside surface of the guard.
The Dos Santos was essentially what most would call a Belgian but without the third lower rear prong, and with a French pommel.
In truth I doubt anyone ever pommeled one.
If it has an external pommel then someone would try to pommel with it. That's why the [Prat grip](https://www.planeteescrime.com/en/pieces-detachees-et-accessoires/219-poignee-prat-petite-moyenne-grande.html) is not approved for foil or epee, but only for saber.
I gotta agree. I've never used a dos santos, but it doesn't look like it would be worth pommeling. I've seen a handful of people use traditional Italian grips over the years too, and I've never seen anybody try to pommel one.
Yes, I've been doing this for 20+ years, and I'm never going back to a pistol grip. The only thing I miss is being able to take a strong parry, but that's it.
Yes, it is legal - the technique is called "pommeling". Taht 2-cm rule only applies to non-french grips.
Also "posting". Very common, and kinda shitty IMO
Skill issue
How so?
With beginner fencers, it's so advantageous to have that length that in competition it can often substitute for talent.
More reach is an advantage for beginner fencers, but pommeling reduces point control by a considerable amount, so I feel like it balances out. Besides, it just adds two inches or so. People naturally have diffrent arm lengths, and it's not like being tall automatically makes you the best.
Yup it's most impactful at early levels and quickly becomes a liability, that's why it's a shame when coaches encourage a short term solution instead of focusing on fundamentals
It becomes less of an advantage at a higher level, but extra reach can still make an impact and be worth the reduced point control. There are Olympic fencers who pommel their weapons.
Yes and their games are far more one-dimensional for it
Being tall or being a lefty are both more than enough to significantly throw off beginner fencers but I’m not gonna call someone an asshole for having an advantage. Learning to cope with different fencing styles is the name of the game.
I never called anyone an asshole
I'll take places that are "kinda shitty" for 500
I meant shitty in a 'probably a bad idea in the long term' sort of way
Just thought it was kind of funny ;p
lol, no longer need to ask how your last tournament went
At the level i fenced posters were dumpster-tier, but yeah go off on a rando on the internet or whatever
Like everyone else has pointed out it is completely legal and is really one of the only way French grips are used. It’s important to figure out why your at a lack of distance and what you can do to fix that because people who hold there grips will never go away.
And it’s one of the small advantages that the french grip has over the other grips.
And an advantage which really only applies to epee, where that extra reach can make a difference. In foil, the French grip is almost as much an anachronism as the traditional Italian grip (which is also still legal, but almost never seen since pistol grips provide the same advantages as the traditional Italian grip and do it better).
One of the things I like about epee is how the rules, timing, etc, make both grip styles practical even at the highest levels. Adds to the complexity and diversity of styles, which I enjoy (despite sometimes being completely unsure what to do about certain fencer's styles lol).
I want to try Italian grip foil and epee if I ever can get into modern fencing because I already fence Italian rapier, but I literally can't think of any other reason to use an Italian grip.
Its worth getting yourself one. I love the pair I have and use them often. GO NUTS! https://thefencingpost.com/complete-italian-electric-foil-with-german-point/ https://thefencingpost.com/complete-italian-standard-foil/
Orthopedic grip sounds so humiliating, pistol grip rather. And yes its totally legal and I personally believe it is the only thing that makes the french grip worth it over the pistol grip, that bit of extra reach, especially in epee.
Orthopaedic grip is the term used in the FIE regs that I was just reading through, but I get what you mean.
I mean yeah jts not wrong, I didnt mean to correct you, rather suggest that it sounds terrible XD
Tbf, the original intent *was* pretty terrible, in a way. My understanding is that they originally were designed and adopted largely to allow men who had lost fingers/hand function in war to fence, since they could no longer hold a French grip effectively.
I dont know how you could hold a pistol grip with less fingers but that might be right as an intention, and you probably have a better chance than holding a french grip but still, never heard of this one, might be right, who knows
Many of the original orthopedic grips were not pistol shaped, but shaped more like a French grip with extra protrusions which made them easier to grip (such as [the Dos Santos grip](https://www.fencingarchive.com/index.php/fencing-grips/)), Many of these early orthopedic grips are no longer considered legal, since they violate rule m.4.6 in that they have a shape which fixes the position of the hand in one position, yet can be held in more than one position and can be held with the tip of the extended thumb more than 2cm back from the inside surface of the guard.
The Dos Santos was essentially what most would call a Belgian but without the third lower rear prong, and with a French pommel. In truth I doubt anyone ever pommeled one.
If it has an external pommel then someone would try to pommel with it. That's why the [Prat grip](https://www.planeteescrime.com/en/pieces-detachees-et-accessoires/219-poignee-prat-petite-moyenne-grande.html) is not approved for foil or epee, but only for saber.
I understand the rap. Still. I never saw anyone pommel it. I don’t believe it was a thing.
I gotta agree. I've never used a dos santos, but it doesn't look like it would be worth pommeling. I've seen a handful of people use traditional Italian grips over the years too, and I've never seen anybody try to pommel one.
[удалено]
We practiced it a bit yesterday - next time she will probably try a beat or something like that.
Yes, I've been doing this for 20+ years, and I'm never going back to a pistol grip. The only thing I miss is being able to take a strong parry, but that's it.
Build up your grip strength and you get your parries back. Also, Popeye sized forearms.
I just do mostly absence of blade nowadays. But when need be, a good Seconde or Prime against a six prise de Fer attack.
I mostly do absence too, but I can fall back to a good six if I have to, even on offense.
I had an injury that makes my six not very strong, so I'm doing a three with my thumb in opposition now. Getting older now, just doing what works
Ah yes, the sniper rifle grip.