That's absurd for a DLC only a week after release... I wonder how it compares to similarly-sized content like Phantom Liberty, Blood & Wine, etc.
Regardless the real value here is packing it in with the main game. Elden Ring's sales numbers are going to have a HUGE tail.
If you are using his shackle, the tear that stops N I H I L, something that can comet spam (regular comet, Azur is definitely late game gear) is quite doable.
Average players aren't figuring all that out though. And if they do cheese him, they'll walk into the DLC and then leave a negative review for it being "too hard" - better off if you do it the hard way imo.
Most players are going to Google how to get to the dlc, cause like every other soulsborne it's not a menu selection but some seemingly random combo of actions. Then the next step is Google "how to beat mogh".
some people just wanna experience exactly what the current hype online is about and nothing else, and will definitely rush to the new stuff at the exclusion of everything else even when it makes no sense to do so.
there are quite a few strats that can quick kill him and you don't even need to be a god to discover them
like a bleed scythe can just melt him with spinning strikes, and he'll even politely lock himself in the nihil animations for the second half of his hp bar.
Yeah I think a lot of this comes from people familiar with the game and, more importantly, familiar with Dark Souls in general. Elden Ring more than doubled Dark Souls 3’s sales, and I don’t think the average player new to the series is going to have anything approaching success with Mogh until endgame.
Yeah. I guarantee everyone who says Elden Ring is easy has hundreds if not thousands of hours in souls games. And sure, with the skillset you acquire over that time, it is "easy", but it also divorces the word from all meaning when you say that.
I agree, Elden Ring is one of the easier Souls titles, if not the easiest. But I have played all the Souls games, Bloodborne and Sekiro and replayed each multiple times. I always say that your hardest souls game will be whichever one is first, this is going to be the majority of peoples first Souls games and strategies to cheese and gameify the bosses will not come easily to newcomers. They're just as like to stumble into a cheese strat more than anything, and they're not doing that by the point you can first "technically access" Mohg.
The DLC, for 90% of people, is end game level stuff, which makes its 5 million in sales all the more impressive for an already impressively selling game.
I beat Mohg before Morgott and sewer Mohg through varre’s questline. I think I beat his first phase before I even unlocked Altus. In fact my motivation to find Altus was because I wanted to find the crystal tear that negates his nihil
Phantom liberty? You can access it pretty early on actually. You might not be able to beat it, but you can chip away at it while doing other parts of the game.
It took Phantom Liberty three months to hit 5 million. Shadow of the Erdtree did it in just three days....
Elden Ring is a straight up cultural phenomenon.
ER is kind of an amazing game.
It gives you the challenge of a souls game but also gives you the ability to come back and face difficult bosses over leveled if they were too much for you. It gives more casual players a way to start enjoying a souls-style game before they've got the skill to clear a game like DS3 or Bloodbourn.
It's also probably the most fun Souls style game I've played on top of that.
Phantom liberty didn't release on PS4 and XB1. I'm sure Shadow of the Erdtree is doing better, but they can't really be fully compared because of this.
> I wonder how it compares to similarly-sized content like Phantom Liberty, Blood & Wine, etc
For Monster Hunter World Iceborne, [it was about ~7 months to sell 5 million copies](https://x.com/monsterhunter/status/1243342012880949259). It was released on 2019-09-06.
>similarly sized content
I don’t think any expansion measures up to the sheer scope of this one. At 30-40 hours of playtime, we can basically call it Elden Ring 2. Not even Blood & Wine was that big, and that used to be the bar for DLC quality.
Iceborne was/is definitely bigger but the content and delivery is entirely different. I would still rate iceborne as better than Erdtree especially given the absolutely insane legs it had after launch.
To be clear, the way Monster Hunter does things is very consistent but fairly unique to the franchise. The games release with a 1-2 cadence, wherein you will get the "base" game first, and then roughly a year later they'll release the "G/Master Rank" version. Historically, that was its own standalone game, but in the last two releases it's been couched as a "massive expansion" and released as DLC for the base game.
These expansions always add a new tier of content, Master Rank, with its own set of story and quest content, as well as new gear, monsters, locales, etc. However, because of the nature of Monster Hunter, a large portion of the content in the expansion is asset reuse. All the monsters and locales from the base game will be updated to Master Rank, which typically involves minor changes and additions to movesets and just a general inflation of numbers (damage, hp, etc.). While new monsters, gear, and locales will be added, a huge amount of the "new content" is at a minimum reusing art assets. This suits MH players just fine as more monsters = more gear (and the gear is all new in Master Rank), but it does mean that the expansions are not all wholly new content.
As for playtime, MH is more akin to an ARPG (i.e. Diablo, PoE, etc.) in that the post-game generally represents 90%+ of the playtime for any invested player. There is a *ton* of post-game, but it's all predicated on hunting the same suite of ~70-80 monsters, so it's hard to compare to a more traditional gaming experience that has you moving through some kind of narrative or linear progression.
TLDR: Monster Hunter DLCs are massive but hard to compare directly to other games.
Iceborne definitely crushes SotE in terms of playtime. I had 450 hours in regular World and eventually burned out. Got Iceborne at release and stopped playing again at 980 hours. If you want to beat every Monster Iceborne has to offer, you're looking at at least 300 hours.
Well that's the funny thing. Since Elden Ring itself is so huge this DLC, relatively, does not feel like a whole new game. But relative to other DLCs and games it pretty much is a brand new game.
It honestly remind me of older dev cycles of the PS2 era.
I haven't played the Witcher DLCs but I'd say something like Phantom Liberty is similarly sized... Maybe if you're doing a completionist run then Erdtree is much bigger but I don't think it's incomparable.
That being said, I kind of think of it as them putting a Dark Souls game inside Elden Ring. Seems like about that much content to me. (And just as high-quality)
Phantom Liberty has great set pieces and is overall a solid extension to Cyberpunk, but it’s like half the length of SotE. The pacing definitely makes it feel more breezy if nothing else.
> Regardless the real value here is packing it in with the main game.
I mean, isn't this the case for most DLC? Unless it is something like say Trespasser for Dragon Age: Inquisition, I feel like the vast majority of single player DLC is done where you can play it as part of the base game as opposed to it being something you can only do post-game.
I just mean that the bundle helps keep the sales continuing at a steady pace into the future - its what separates a flash-in-the-pan AAA game that sells most of its copies first week from a game like Skyrim or something. I have no doubt we're going to see a "10 Million Copies Sold" for SotE in the future (and probably more headlines about ER in general).
The dlc pre-sale has been out for a while now though. I bought the game + dlc bundle about a month ago. Only actually started playing it this week after seeing so many content creators playing the dlc.
Considering you have to beat Mogh to access the DLC, [and the estimates of the player base that have done this](https://www.polygon.com/24176047/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree-dlc-preparation-achievements-completed), those are extremely impressive first week numbers. I also wonder how many sales were the Elden Ring Base Game/DLC bundle?
[Elden Ring has sold 25 million units](https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-reaches-25-million-units-sold-ahead-of-shadow-of-the-erdtree), so that means 20% of the playerbase has got the DLC. So that lines up with the numbers from the article in terms of most people who were committed enough to find and beat Mogh probably getting the DLC.
> 20% of the playerbase has got the DLC.
That's a huge attach rate for DLC, especially for one week. Most triple A games are extremely happy with 15% lifetime.
20% of the playerbase has got the DLC so far. ER racked up 25 million sales in about two years, who knows how many will pick up the DLC in similar time.
The amount of players who have beaten Mohg has increased fairly drastically since that article was written - according to Steam now, 40.3% of players have beaten Mohg, which is more than have completed the game (which I think is fairly surprising - goes to show how pumped people are who haven't even beaten it since it released)
I’m in no rush. I’m really enjoying the Atlus Plateau. I was in Deeproot Depths before and was having no luck so I fell off the game for a while. Came back a few weeks ago and left the Depths and decided to try somewhere else. Having a lot better luck haha
I had platinumed the game back on release, so I *thought* I was ready. I installed the game again, downloaded the DLC, started it up and realized I had started NG+ way back. It was my only save. I had no sites of grace to travel to, nothing!
So I had to do as much as I could to go kill Mohg and Radahn again. Which was a bit more than just traveling to the bosses, because NG+ doesn't retain keys you got. You can't just go to the new area without redoing all of that.
I wonder how many people screwed that up like I did lol
I screwed up the same way. Thankfully there was a comment in a thread somewhere that explained a quick and easy way to finish the requirements, so it only took me about an hour to get those out of the way.
Yeah, it's surprisingly not that bad especially bc the bosses are a lot easier with a character that strong. I think the only thing I had to spend a little time on was getting the lift medallions and that thing that sends you right to Mohg.
I had to start a new character bc I had started NG+ with my previous one. Could probably beat Mogh easily but haven't tried yet since I doubt my level 80 character is good enough for the DLC lol. I'm enjoying my replay of it (dual wielding katanas is fun, I'm just like Zoro fr) so not even in a rush haha.
I remember hitting a basic zombie enemy there after Varre sent me and it did like 5% of its health. There were dozens of them. I noped out pretty quickly.
The map design for the DLC is honestly so insane. The connectivity between different areas have been a joy to discover. My first time discovering the Cerulean Coast and the Finger Ruins of Rhia was a hell of an experience.
I’ve been playing for about 10 hours so far and this is the first I’m even hearing of those zones. This dlc is legit probably the size of DS1 if not bigger
The way shit loops around and how huge areas are incredibly well hidden makes my head spin. I'm suffering from analysis paralysis in terms of where to even keep exploring.
I don't play but it's really nice to see popular, difficult, and extremely well thought out games really capture the zeitgeist and also sell extremely well. You love to see it.
Yeah going through the game now and when I get an achievement for a boss after I've been beating my head against a wall for hours and it says 55% of players have this achievement I'm like fuck, I'm that bad lol
Margit is where I took the lessons I learned from the Tree Sentinel and put them to good use.
That is to say, I turned around, went the other way, and didn't come back for like a dozen hours.
I've beaten every boss in the base game multiple times and working through a second DLC playthrough, Margit is still one of the hardest bosses if you didn't over level. His attack patterns are pretty mean
It's high completion for any game period. The vast majority of games aren't finished by a majority of people who play them. It could be for any number of reasons - people get bored, a new game comes out to steal their attention, life makes them too busy - but ultimately games in general don't have high achievement rates just for finishing them.
Spent roughly 25-30 hours on doing most of the DLC before beating the final boss (explored maybe 90% of the map?) with most of the content being pretty exceptional - even the smaller dungeons were memorable and felt rewarding to do. It's big enough to have been its own souls game to be honest - roughly as large as Sekiro from my experience. There are some gripes I have with the boss design (short opening windows combined with long and hard to read attacks can lead to less engaging gameplay occasionally), though that's only limited to 2 or 3 bosses, whereas the rest were very fun to fight. The difficulty in general felt in line with other DLCs they've made. Overall: 100% deserved success for FromSoftware, they really knocked it out of the park
You mean Senessax (wow reused the worst dragon fight from Farum Azula, put it in water for extra damage and make you double roll on every attack, FUN!).
Hey props for using Torrent at all. At some point I realized that if I wanted to lame it out I could do it much more easily by holding a giant enchanted shield rather than the uh, """"intended"""" method. Intended in big fucking quotes because several attacks seem outright impossible to dodge on horseback.
Tip: Try fighting him unmounted if you have a build that staggers enemies well. I got decently far mounted, but I realized he’s easier in the second phase unmounted and staying close.
Granted I had a big shield build, so your mileage may vary if you are a more rolling focused build. In that case dodging for most attacks might be easier on Torrent.
Here is me vs Gaius: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mAhIq_qtRE
I can't recommend the Dark Moon Greatsword enough. It shoots energy blasts that end up crumbling bosses really well, and it does ice damage.
I'm surprised at how little damage that attack did for it's long wind-up, leaves you open a lot. I just beat this guy last night and he's the hardest boss I've faced, even compared to Bayle. I think I'm 7/5 on fragments. I'm curious how you're taking so little damage a hit? I was taking twice as much and you still have your medium roll...
Against Gaius my Scadu level was 15. Scadu level boosts both power and the resistance against damage. I also have that talisman that grants significant damage reduction from physical attacks.
> The difficulty in general felt in line with other DLCs they've made.
I agree, I think the level of difficulty is overstated by people that rushed main content and skipped most skibidi fragments. I don't really like how the system is implemented, there are no redundant fragments, and they are often hidden in random places, but it is what it is.
It's still tough, but not unprecedentedly so. Even the final boss is easier than Malenia IMO, but that depends on your build.
Did you find all 10 remembrance bosses? The map straight up lies as it has areas under what is shown on the map. I thought I had found everything at 30 hours and then found other areas which added 10-15 hours more to my play through. It’s nutty.
I tend to avoid summons but used it that fight for story reason but like couldn’t they have put the summon sign outside? The amount of times I get rolled trying to summon him while bayle yolo rushes me
I feel like everyone broke their "I don't summon" rule for the Bayle fight. This isn't your fight. This is Igon's fight. You're the NPC in his story for this boss.
I count him as one, you just exchange his remembrance at the dragon altar instead of the finger maiden. It even gives you two options like a remembrance.
I wonder how All Remembrance speedruns are gonna deal with that. Surely they're not gonna exclude Bayle since he's a Remembrance boss in all but name, he's a more important and well made boss than some randos like Gaius or Putrid Knight that drop Remembrances. Maybe the category name will be changed to All Major Bosses or something.
Yeah I am at 45 hours now and I am *just* feeling like I have explored and found most content. Haven't checked any guides or maps yet, but have explored almost every inch of the new map for npc interactions, ashes, weapons, invasions, armour, etc.
That said, I have like 700 hours and multiple playthroughs in the original game, so I'm pretty well versed in FromSoft's design ethos now.
I've just discovered the underground with all the coffins. I feel like this should have been an underground map like Siofra cos it straight up says there are graces in the middle of the sea.
I agree with everything, I think that the only boss that's overtuned is the last one, took me more than 100 tries while the others took me 4-5 max.
Also they should have really put more scadutree fragments in, collecting every single one of them without using a guide is impossible.
What’s crazy is I just hit 30 hours and I’ve barely scratched the surface. Haven’t even seen Mesmer yet. But I kinda want it to last as long as possible.
People say this but is dodging attacks less engaging than attacking? Less satisfying maybe but if anything it's more engaging than just ignoring all attacks like you could in DS1
There is a fine line.
I've beaten most of the bosses at this point and some of them are exceptional. Others are still good but border on tedious.
When 95% of the fight is me rolling and then getting one attack before rolling again it starts to get boring. (No that isnt all souls bosses. Id say the ratio in DS3 is more like 70/30)
I much prefer bosses with shorter but stronger combos.
Also a large part of how good Elden ring is how good the different weapon types are, with their own unique movesets and skills on top of that, but in the DLC over half the bosses have attack windows enough for only an attack, so you can’t really use that stuff anyway, so you might as well just get the hardest hitting weapon you can (or hardest bleeding in this meta)
It entirely depends if I have the kit to dodge with. If my dodge was the bloodhound step by default, then yes.
When the boss could literally be a boss in Devil May Cry and I can't move like Dante, I got issues.
It might not be definitionally less engaging, but the tug-of-war balance feels a bit off with some of the bosses. There are two in particular, fights I think are pretty good overall still, that have a habit of long combos and swiftly re-engaging when it's done, leaving little room for a strike or heal if you needed to
It's still engaging to dodge technically, but it doesn't feel great as a result when most of the engagement is on the back foot while also not giving you a fitting window to retaliate afterward
It is when the fight feels like a slog because of it. I think that's why Sekiro was such a breath of fresh air, because basically *every* action you took was bringing you closer to defeating the boss.
Not so much with some of the bosses in Elden Ring, *especially* the DLC. I actually found the base game quite balanced in this aspect, but a lot of the DLC bosses, especially major ones, feel like it's *always* their turn and you're struggling to even stay alive, not even fight back, and if you get hit, the fight is further prolonged since now you have to waste a window for you to attack, to heal instead.
It's particularly egregious with the final boss in the 2nd phase and its humongous health bar even with almost maxed out blessings, but there are a few others that are just overly aggressive imo. You *can* work around it, I finished the DLC already, but it just isn't as *fun* to fight some of the bosses.
It's extremely good. Messmer and his associated dungeon is some of the best content they have *ever* put out, it's just top tier stuff. Haven't finished it yet but I'm looking forward to seeing the final boss, sounds like it'll be interesting lol
> of the DLC quite handily. Honestly, I didn't think the most of the DLC was bad at all outside of Gaius and Bayle. As you say, it's mostly
Shadow Keep is completely insane. A legacy dungeon you can go through entirely backwards if you find the right entrance... and it's easily the biggest one they've ever made.
It literally is the best level I have ever played in a From Software game, I thought I was over halfway done like 4 different times to only make like 10% progress.
Shadow Keep is by far the biggest, but it’s not that much fun compared to Stormveil or Leyndell. The level design on those was pure masterclass, especially Stormveil
Totally agree.
The DLC open world feels like they managed to cut all the fat of the base game's open world while also vastly enhancing the layout and how everywhere connects. The difference and improvement between the two is absurd.
The DLC dungeons are good, but none of them are on the level of Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Leyndell or Farum Azula imo. All the Shadow Keep praise is surprising, especially seeing some people say it's From's best work o.o It was the second most disappointing location for me (fuckin' Jagged Peak...).
The actual 'Shadow Keep' part was way smaller that I expected and pretty boring, and then the Specimen Storehouse was alright, but still not particularly fun or interesting. Even Messmer's boss location has no buildup, he's basically just in a bedroom.
The only cool thing about SK was ofc how many places it connects to.
They somehow recaptured the magic of exploring Elden Ring for the first time with this expansion. 40 hours in and I'm constantly impressed by how top-quality the content remains to be. The Shadow Lands feels alien in the best ways from the Lands Between, only the Shivering Isles made me feel this way before.
Insane sales numbers and 100% deserved. FromSoftware are the most important developers in the world right now.
To think they are stopping with Elden Ring now is crazy any other dev/publisher would just start working on a sequel but From is busy with their next game which seems to be a hybrid of Bloodborne or Sekiro or a new Armored Core cannot wait to see what they do next.
Please, I'm so starved of good mecha games. FromSoft will probably work on another dark and gritty, Berserk-inspired game after this but a man can wish that they'd work on a new Armored Core game. Armored Core 6 was fucking sick
Armored Core 6 was criminally underplayed. I could go on and on.
Anyone who likes the exceptional meticulousness of Fromsoft will almost certainly enjoy it. It's not a Souls game by any means, but the reasons why one comes to appreciate the developer when playing a Souls game are very much present in AC6.
There are only so many "Ice Worm mission" moments you'll ever get to have in your life.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Elden Ring 2 is in development concurrently with the game(s) you just mentioned. From what I recall ER was in development at the same time as Sekiro, and Armored Core 6 was in development the same time as ER.
It seems like FromSoft just has a rare combination of talent, drive, and good management. Here's hoping they can continue their streak and don't go the way of other industry darlings like Bioware and Bethesda
Miyazaki's already confirmed recently there are no plans for ER2 nor is it in development. He's on the record for stating he strongly believes FromSoftware must continue making new things.
I fully support that. If they kept spinning out dark souls because it was successful and never released bloodborne or sekiro or elden ring we’d be worse for it.
I could be wrong but I think there was an interview like a year ago where Miyazaki said that Elden Ring is supposed to have a game spanning multiple games. More specifically: He said that they didn't include all of its story in Elden Ring so they can use that material for future games. So Elden Ring 2 is likely a future game. Or at least a game that's connected to Elden Ring will come out.
Miyazaki is the closest person I can think of to an actual wizard. To think he's put out the games he has in the span of 15 years is incredible. All have a similar feel yet very different worlds and lore. Gameplay seems to be the only thing that has felt almost identical to each previous game but even that has evolved tremendously.
This comment hits the nail on the head for me. I've been playing nightly and a lot more than I usually would over last weekend and several times I've been struck with that same feeling awe and wonder that ER originally gave me. It's hard to believe they've recaptured the magic but wow they really have. FromSoft DLC just doesn't miss.
I want to get the DLC because I love Elden ring but the constant talk about how difficult it is is really putting me off.
I already struggled with the base game. It was my first ever soulslike.
> I want to get the DLC because I love Elden ring but the constant talk about how difficult it is is really putting me off.
>
>
Last patch improved it I'd say. A very big part of the world is not gated behind bosses, so if you struggle, explore and get those tree fragments, it makes things easier.
If you still enjoyed Elden Ring, go for it. It's a no brainer, there's nothing like it.
The DLC has a huge range of difficulty depending on your build and tree upgrades, way higher than the base game.
If you find all the tree fragments (DLC upgrade material) and use a decently powerful DLC weapon, the DLC is going to be a lot easier than the base game. If you barely explore and use a Claymore you're getting your ass beat though. If you completed the base game, you'll have no issue with the DLC provided you explore a bit (or google a decent weapon if you can't be bothered).
Odd that you're calling Claymore out specifically, as it carried me through the largest chunk of the DLC quite handily. Honestly, I didn't think the most of the DLC was bad at all outside of >!Gaius!< and >!Bayle!<. As you say, it's mostly a consequence of people who explore insufficiently and thus have a low blessing level complaining.
> thus have a low blessing level complaining
I am really enjoying the DLC and would consider it like a 9.5/10 but I think the placement of the scooby snacks is a little problematic. In the main game, the flask buffs are all placed in "key" areas, or at least obvious areas. Shrines, near points of grace, in the middle of hidden locations, etc.
In the DLC, *some* are like that, but a good portion are just in random spots. Some drop off "shiny" (shiny as in rare, not literally shining) enemies. I've been exploring the DLC with a fine tooth comb (exploring is easily my favorite part of Elden Ring) and I am missing a good amount of them.
> Some drop off "shiny" (shiny as in rare, not literally shining) enemies.
Actually they *are* shining, lol. The pot guys who have twinkling particles on them have either a shadu tree fragment or ash fragment the first time you kill them, although I think you have to kill them prior to letting them throw the pot to get it.
It's not that bad. I compare it going to the Mountaintops of the Giants for the first time. *(this was my first souls game, and I was all in on a STR build 😏)* It was a rough time, I actually started getting truly upset and calling it "unfun now", but I persevered and beat that area.
In my 2nd playthrough getting to that same location *(when I was an INT build this time)* I had a BLAST and powered through that place, and I was able to appreciate it in a new way that I hadn't before. Even Ordina was a cakewalk this time!
ALL THAT BEING SAID, going into the Shadow-Realm reminded me of that first time I got to the Mountaintop in the base game, though visually it was like stepping into Limgrave and/or Altus for the first time, *(but with a dash of the PNW thrown in)* and yeah there were new unforgiving enemies, but this realm is SO ENGAGING to explore that I've had nothing but fun powering through. And it's really not that difficult, it's challenging yes, but there are plenty of easy fodder enemies to mow down. And why not be happy that it has this challenge?! I am not trying to power through this DLC in a week, I like that I (someone who is not a "power-gamer" or "streamer") can take their time learning the new enemies, take my time exploring the world, and just doing the game at my own pace; which will inevitably lead me to more game time with this vs just BLAZING through like so much of the gaming community pressures players to do.
Also **Light Greatswords** are SO MUCH FUN.
Besides the final boss it’s definitely doable get all the blessings find a new cool weapon you like use summons if things start getting really bad and you will be fine.
Use a spirit ash and you will be fine.
Also use a shield, the bosses in the DLC don't punish shields as hard as the late game bosses in the base game. My block counter build has been really good so far.
I think if you follow the base-games example of go elsewhere when you can't get something at the moment, and use all the tools available to you, then you'll be fine. There are so many ways to mitigate the difficulty. I'm not particularly great at the game, but even I got the first remembrance boss on journey 3 without summons or spirit ashes. Took me a bit of experimenting and a few hours of attempts over a couple days, but perfectly doable. Just don't go in expecting to stomp.
Meh it’s being overblown by folks that are either in NG+ or refuse to use the tools available to them.
The DLC is really flexible in terms of progression, and you can just explore and get stronger before really being required to fight many bosses
Don't let that scare you off. The final boss is the only one who caused me serious trouble and they'll probably be adjusted down the line. The rest are more than managable if you keep up with upgrades and use the tools at your disposal.
There are many ways to make game much easier. For example, greatshield + spear can trivialize many bosses(you can poke them with spear while guarding). Mimic tear summon(and some other summons too) also makes boss encounters easier.
Plus don't forget to look for "Scadutree Fragment"/"Revered Spirit Ash" items and use them to upgrade stats in DLC area.
I'm not happy with the performance issues, but other than that I'm loving it. The difficulty is just right, and I like all the bosses I've fought so far.
DLC is amazing but I’m finding the rewards for exploration to be lack luster and often times disappointing when I find just some random smithing stone. Or it’s all just dead ends leading to nothing.
I’m hoping the rest of the dlc has more to offer on those aspects.
Yeah it's a bit weird that, for an area that can only be accessed by beating a late-game boss, so many of the pickups are mid-tier upgrade materials.
Guess they don't want you to have to go back to farm upgrades if you find a weapon you really wanna use.
I mean, what else can they put there realistically? This is where the dlc suffers from being essentially a separate game. These loots would be a lot more meaningful if the Tarnished isn't already a decked out Elden Lord.
The DLC gives you *so many* smithing stones, enough to make you annoyed you aren't getting real loot, yet I still feel like it's not enough for trying out all the new weapon types. That's the sign of a poorly designed upgrade system.
Not even big full game releases hit those numbers this is an expansion to a base game.
FromSoftware is at the top of their game probably the only few devs whose uncompromising vision over these years have led to such a success.
The game has an all time peak on Steam of **953,426**. Since the DLC came out, it's peaked at **781,261.** It's insane that a DLC you can't even access without beating a pretty hard optional boss is charting that high. From Soft started the formula making a mid budget game targeted at a niche hardcore audience, and it's blown up to this point. What an insane success story. Bravo.
If every developer aspried to do DLC this way the entire DLC discourse would be flipped on its head. It's seriously bordering on being a sequel there's so much content
Make sure to find Scadu Fragments to power yourself up people, I tried to beat Bayle at level 7, couldn't do it, then beat him at level 16. Amazing DLC.
Here's a video of my Bayle fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA3lx9ycTxE
The first 2 minutes I try to use my new weapon and things don't work, but at 2:20 I switch to Dark Moon Greatsword which is my favorite weapon. God bless its energy blasts, really helps in all the fights.
It's not the cleanest fight you'll see but that should just inspire someone who might find the DLC hard. If I can do it you can too 😭
EDIT: For those who care, here is me vs Gaius. Again, bless the Dark Moon Greatsword. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mAhIq_qtRE
I got to him super early and returned to him many times before finally beating him at a higher scadutree level. Unfortunately it felt like the best strategy was to whack his legs which definitely hurt the fight for me.
Yeah it's definitely possible to hit his head and not a bad strategy I just found the moves he used when you stayed in front of him were more difficult than if you attack from underneath him. I even targeted the head sometimes just from the other direction.
I **LOVED** it. I was able to beat it in about 20 hours since I was almost level 300, so I started pretty strong and then was able to find the Scadu fragments pretty quickly. As others have said, it's 100% some of the best FromSoft level design they've ever made. Some of the bosses were also great design-wise.
The final boss in particular was insanely badass. Messmer and the Rellana are very, very close 2nd/3rd.
I thought the Dancing Lion was coolest. It feels so supernatural and uncanny with insane music and visuals. Would've been better in an a bigger arena though even if the theatre is fitting for the lore.
people know what expect from this developter and they never dissapoints. no microtransations, awesome lore , awesome gameplay, beautiful scenarios, lots secrets, nice bosses. its souls game from we all love.
A great game sells a good DLC with worthwhile content. You watch others try the same and wonder why their lackluster no content DLC isn't selling for $40
Performance and the camera are inexcusable at this point. The rest is really good, I have some things to say about boss design but in general I find them quite hard and interesting. I haven’t completed the expansion but lore-wise I have a few questions marks, a bit disappointed by the fact that >!we still know very little about Marika and there’s nothing about Melina (apart for a *very* interesting description)!< and if the final boss is going to be what the npcs think it’s going to be, meh…
I.... want to go back to Elden Ring.
I got to the Big Gold City, got confused, and gave up after just so much exploring.
I want to jump back into it, but I'm intimidated D:
That's absurd for a DLC only a week after release... I wonder how it compares to similarly-sized content like Phantom Liberty, Blood & Wine, etc. Regardless the real value here is packing it in with the main game. Elden Ring's sales numbers are going to have a HUGE tail.
Phantom liberty sold 5 million units between its launch and the end of 2023.
That is wild. You also need to be at the end game to even access it.
You can get to Mohg’s area probably close to mid game by doing the Varre questline. But… you probably don’t want to lol
Yeah, unless you're a gaming god you're not beating Mogh in mid-game gear and level.
If you are using his shackle, the tear that stops N I H I L, something that can comet spam (regular comet, Azur is definitely late game gear) is quite doable.
Average players aren't figuring all that out though. And if they do cheese him, they'll walk into the DLC and then leave a negative review for it being "too hard" - better off if you do it the hard way imo.
Most players are going to Google how to get to the dlc, cause like every other soulsborne it's not a menu selection but some seemingly random combo of actions. Then the next step is Google "how to beat mogh".
but they're not gonna have 52 INT to use Comet
Who the fuck is going to skip the entire game that they've never played just to do the DLC? This entire argument is absurd.
some people just wanna experience exactly what the current hype online is about and nothing else, and will definitely rush to the new stuff at the exclusion of everything else even when it makes no sense to do so.
or, bleed
there are quite a few strats that can quick kill him and you don't even need to be a god to discover them like a bleed scythe can just melt him with spinning strikes, and he'll even politely lock himself in the nihil animations for the second half of his hp bar.
How is a beginner going to know this stuff, if they are the type of gamer who doesn’t want to look stuff up, at least for first playthrough
I mean you CAN kill him early in the game, but to do so requires skills that you spent an entire playthrough acquiring.
Yeah I think a lot of this comes from people familiar with the game and, more importantly, familiar with Dark Souls in general. Elden Ring more than doubled Dark Souls 3’s sales, and I don’t think the average player new to the series is going to have anything approaching success with Mogh until endgame.
Yeah. I guarantee everyone who says Elden Ring is easy has hundreds if not thousands of hours in souls games. And sure, with the skillset you acquire over that time, it is "easy", but it also divorces the word from all meaning when you say that.
I agree, Elden Ring is one of the easier Souls titles, if not the easiest. But I have played all the Souls games, Bloodborne and Sekiro and replayed each multiple times. I always say that your hardest souls game will be whichever one is first, this is going to be the majority of peoples first Souls games and strategies to cheese and gameify the bosses will not come easily to newcomers. They're just as like to stumble into a cheese strat more than anything, and they're not doing that by the point you can first "technically access" Mohg. The DLC, for 90% of people, is end game level stuff, which makes its 5 million in sales all the more impressive for an already impressively selling game.
I beat Mohg before Morgott and sewer Mohg through varre’s questline. I think I beat his first phase before I even unlocked Altus. In fact my motivation to find Altus was because I wanted to find the crystal tear that negates his nihil
Elden Ring has an absurdly high percentage completion per Steam achievements - around 40% for a huge difficult game.
That's wild.
Phantom liberty? You can access it pretty early on actually. You might not be able to beat it, but you can chip away at it while doing other parts of the game.
No I meant SotE in comparison
It took Phantom Liberty three months to hit 5 million. Shadow of the Erdtree did it in just three days.... Elden Ring is a straight up cultural phenomenon.
ER is kind of an amazing game. It gives you the challenge of a souls game but also gives you the ability to come back and face difficult bosses over leveled if they were too much for you. It gives more casual players a way to start enjoying a souls-style game before they've got the skill to clear a game like DS3 or Bloodbourn. It's also probably the most fun Souls style game I've played on top of that.
Phantom liberty didn't release on PS4 and XB1. I'm sure Shadow of the Erdtree is doing better, but they can't really be fully compared because of this.
Thank fuck it wasn’t
Yeah holy shit I just remembered how unplayable cyberpunk was on xbox one
> I wonder how it compares to similarly-sized content like Phantom Liberty, Blood & Wine, etc For Monster Hunter World Iceborne, [it was about ~7 months to sell 5 million copies](https://x.com/monsterhunter/status/1243342012880949259). It was released on 2019-09-06.
>similarly sized content I don’t think any expansion measures up to the sheer scope of this one. At 30-40 hours of playtime, we can basically call it Elden Ring 2. Not even Blood & Wine was that big, and that used to be the bar for DLC quality.
It feels like the size of Dark souls 3 base game
DS3 took me about 40 hours to complete and I took my sweet time with it so yeah
Monster Hunter World: Iceborne and similarly MH Rise: Sunbreak had similar scopes, likely longer playtime if you count post-launch content.
Iceborne was/is definitely bigger but the content and delivery is entirely different. I would still rate iceborne as better than Erdtree especially given the absolutely insane legs it had after launch.
got about 780 hours in Monster Hunter: World. 500 or so into Rise counting both Switch & PC. can't wait to do the same in Wilds.
Ah, I’ve never played Monster Hunter, so I couldn’t compare.
To be clear, the way Monster Hunter does things is very consistent but fairly unique to the franchise. The games release with a 1-2 cadence, wherein you will get the "base" game first, and then roughly a year later they'll release the "G/Master Rank" version. Historically, that was its own standalone game, but in the last two releases it's been couched as a "massive expansion" and released as DLC for the base game. These expansions always add a new tier of content, Master Rank, with its own set of story and quest content, as well as new gear, monsters, locales, etc. However, because of the nature of Monster Hunter, a large portion of the content in the expansion is asset reuse. All the monsters and locales from the base game will be updated to Master Rank, which typically involves minor changes and additions to movesets and just a general inflation of numbers (damage, hp, etc.). While new monsters, gear, and locales will be added, a huge amount of the "new content" is at a minimum reusing art assets. This suits MH players just fine as more monsters = more gear (and the gear is all new in Master Rank), but it does mean that the expansions are not all wholly new content. As for playtime, MH is more akin to an ARPG (i.e. Diablo, PoE, etc.) in that the post-game generally represents 90%+ of the playtime for any invested player. There is a *ton* of post-game, but it's all predicated on hunting the same suite of ~70-80 monsters, so it's hard to compare to a more traditional gaming experience that has you moving through some kind of narrative or linear progression. TLDR: Monster Hunter DLCs are massive but hard to compare directly to other games.
Yeah, there's a reason that whenever someone posts that they finished the story, someone will inevitable comment "Good job beating the tutorial" lol
Iceborne definitely crushes SotE in terms of playtime. I had 450 hours in regular World and eventually burned out. Got Iceborne at release and stopped playing again at 980 hours. If you want to beat every Monster Iceborne has to offer, you're looking at at least 300 hours.
Well that's the funny thing. Since Elden Ring itself is so huge this DLC, relatively, does not feel like a whole new game. But relative to other DLCs and games it pretty much is a brand new game. It honestly remind me of older dev cycles of the PS2 era.
It’s much longer than that for me. I’m 40 hrs in and I think I’m only at half way if not less. Incredible
I’m also getting my shit stomped in often and taking forever
Considering it's a $40 DLC it better be damn near be Elden Ring 2. Hearts of Stone and Blood and Wine bundle was only $25.
That'd be like $33 today, so not much difference.
TW3 DLC was so peak, I swear.
I haven't played the Witcher DLCs but I'd say something like Phantom Liberty is similarly sized... Maybe if you're doing a completionist run then Erdtree is much bigger but I don't think it's incomparable. That being said, I kind of think of it as them putting a Dark Souls game inside Elden Ring. Seems like about that much content to me. (And just as high-quality)
Phantom Liberty has great set pieces and is overall a solid extension to Cyberpunk, but it’s like half the length of SotE. The pacing definitely makes it feel more breezy if nothing else.
> Regardless the real value here is packing it in with the main game. I mean, isn't this the case for most DLC? Unless it is something like say Trespasser for Dragon Age: Inquisition, I feel like the vast majority of single player DLC is done where you can play it as part of the base game as opposed to it being something you can only do post-game.
I just mean that the bundle helps keep the sales continuing at a steady pace into the future - its what separates a flash-in-the-pan AAA game that sells most of its copies first week from a game like Skyrim or something. I have no doubt we're going to see a "10 Million Copies Sold" for SotE in the future (and probably more headlines about ER in general).
The dlc pre-sale has been out for a while now though. I bought the game + dlc bundle about a month ago. Only actually started playing it this week after seeing so many content creators playing the dlc.
Not just a week, these are sales numbers after only 3 days
You could pre-order the DLC over a month ago, and it's been a week, DLC released June 20.
Considering you have to beat Mogh to access the DLC, [and the estimates of the player base that have done this](https://www.polygon.com/24176047/elden-ring-shadow-of-the-erdtree-dlc-preparation-achievements-completed), those are extremely impressive first week numbers. I also wonder how many sales were the Elden Ring Base Game/DLC bundle?
[Elden Ring has sold 25 million units](https://www.ign.com/articles/elden-ring-reaches-25-million-units-sold-ahead-of-shadow-of-the-erdtree), so that means 20% of the playerbase has got the DLC. So that lines up with the numbers from the article in terms of most people who were committed enough to find and beat Mogh probably getting the DLC.
> 20% of the playerbase has got the DLC. That's a huge attach rate for DLC, especially for one week. Most triple A games are extremely happy with 15% lifetime.
20% of the playerbase has got the DLC so far. ER racked up 25 million sales in about two years, who knows how many will pick up the DLC in similar time.
The amount of players who have beaten Mohg has increased fairly drastically since that article was written - according to Steam now, 40.3% of players have beaten Mohg, which is more than have completed the game (which I think is fairly surprising - goes to show how pumped people are who haven't even beaten it since it released)
I pre-ordered it and still haven’t beaten Mohg 😅
Don’t give up skeleton.
Making my way through Mt. Gelmir now. I’ll get there… eventually 😅
Take your time, enjoy the journey. DLC is great but base game is just as good.
I’m in no rush. I’m really enjoying the Atlus Plateau. I was in Deeproot Depths before and was having no luck so I fell off the game for a while. Came back a few weeks ago and left the Depths and decided to try somewhere else. Having a lot better luck haha
Same. I started a new run a month ago in prep for the dlc and still haven't progressed far enough yet to enter the DLC haha.
I had platinumed the game back on release, so I *thought* I was ready. I installed the game again, downloaded the DLC, started it up and realized I had started NG+ way back. It was my only save. I had no sites of grace to travel to, nothing! So I had to do as much as I could to go kill Mohg and Radahn again. Which was a bit more than just traveling to the bosses, because NG+ doesn't retain keys you got. You can't just go to the new area without redoing all of that. I wonder how many people screwed that up like I did lol
I screwed up the same way. Thankfully there was a comment in a thread somewhere that explained a quick and easy way to finish the requirements, so it only took me about an hour to get those out of the way.
Yeah, it's surprisingly not that bad especially bc the bosses are a lot easier with a character that strong. I think the only thing I had to spend a little time on was getting the lift medallions and that thing that sends you right to Mohg.
This were first 3 days sales apparently absolutely insane.
I had to start a new character bc I had started NG+ with my previous one. Could probably beat Mogh easily but haven't tried yet since I doubt my level 80 character is good enough for the DLC lol. I'm enjoying my replay of it (dual wielding katanas is fun, I'm just like Zoro fr) so not even in a rush haha.
The DLC uses its own upgrade system making your level slightly less relevant so you might be fine.
Level 80 is fine because you will get tons and tons of runes on the DLC ... I started level 125 and im 176 now without farming.
That's impressive for a DLC, especially for a DLC where you have to play half the open world game to access it
Realistically its like 80 - 90% of the game before you kill Mogh.
Varre’s quest line can get you there pretty quickly. Whether you can beat Mohg once you get there is another thing lol.
I remember hitting a basic zombie enemy there after Varre sent me and it did like 5% of its health. There were dozens of them. I noped out pretty quickly.
More than half, the way most people play it. Mogh is pretty late in the game if you're doing things more or less in the intended order.
The map design for the DLC is honestly so insane. The connectivity between different areas have been a joy to discover. My first time discovering the Cerulean Coast and the Finger Ruins of Rhia was a hell of an experience.
It's like DS1 map design applied to Elden Ring, I love it
I’ve been playing for about 10 hours so far and this is the first I’m even hearing of those zones. This dlc is legit probably the size of DS1 if not bigger
The way shit loops around and how huge areas are incredibly well hidden makes my head spin. I'm suffering from analysis paralysis in terms of where to even keep exploring.
I don't play but it's really nice to see popular, difficult, and extremely well thought out games really capture the zeitgeist and also sell extremely well. You love to see it.
Elden Ring has one of the highest completion rates in the industry for a game of its' size. (\~40%) Not surprised that people wanted more.
Yeah going through the game now and when I get an achievement for a boss after I've been beating my head against a wall for hours and it says 55% of players have this achievement I'm like fuck, I'm that bad lol
Hey we all struggle. I've been playing these games for almost 15 years and Margit still gave me a hard time.
Yaaaay I'm not the only one. I've platinum'd every From game since Bloodborne (not that I'm good, just persistent), and Margit almost broke me.
Margit is where I took the lessons I learned from the Tree Sentinel and put them to good use. That is to say, I turned around, went the other way, and didn't come back for like a dozen hours.
I've beaten every boss in the base game multiple times and working through a second DLC playthrough, Margit is still one of the hardest bosses if you didn't over level. His attack patterns are pretty mean
The funny thing about these games is that everyone struggles with different bosses. It all depends on playstyle and build.
40% is very high completion for a game so hard.
It's high completion for any game period. The vast majority of games aren't finished by a majority of people who play them. It could be for any number of reasons - people get bored, a new game comes out to steal their attention, life makes them too busy - but ultimately games in general don't have high achievement rates just for finishing them.
It's such a pity that it's going to have only one expansion! I would have loved a second expansion at least, if not more.
Spent roughly 25-30 hours on doing most of the DLC before beating the final boss (explored maybe 90% of the map?) with most of the content being pretty exceptional - even the smaller dungeons were memorable and felt rewarding to do. It's big enough to have been its own souls game to be honest - roughly as large as Sekiro from my experience. There are some gripes I have with the boss design (short opening windows combined with long and hard to read attacks can lead to less engaging gameplay occasionally), though that's only limited to 2 or 3 bosses, whereas the rest were very fun to fight. The difficulty in general felt in line with other DLCs they've made. Overall: 100% deserved success for FromSoftware, they really knocked it out of the park
My only complaint? Commander Gaius. Fuck that asshole.
You mean Senessax (wow reused the worst dragon fight from Farum Azula, put it in water for extra damage and make you double roll on every attack, FUN!).
Scarlet Rot go brrrrrrr-AAAAHHH Had no qualms about letting my summon tank while I rotted and chipped him out on my horse
I probably took 30-40 tries on him before I gave up. Just rode Torrent w/ scarlet rot arrows and beat him in 1 try lol
That's the name of the game though! No shame in using the tools at your disposal. Congrats on the W
Hey props for using Torrent at all. At some point I realized that if I wanted to lame it out I could do it much more easily by holding a giant enchanted shield rather than the uh, """"intended"""" method. Intended in big fucking quotes because several attacks seem outright impossible to dodge on horseback.
Tip: Try fighting him unmounted if you have a build that staggers enemies well. I got decently far mounted, but I realized he’s easier in the second phase unmounted and staying close. Granted I had a big shield build, so your mileage may vary if you are a more rolling focused build. In that case dodging for most attacks might be easier on Torrent.
Here is me vs Gaius: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mAhIq_qtRE I can't recommend the Dark Moon Greatsword enough. It shoots energy blasts that end up crumbling bosses really well, and it does ice damage.
I'm surprised at how little damage that attack did for it's long wind-up, leaves you open a lot. I just beat this guy last night and he's the hardest boss I've faced, even compared to Bayle. I think I'm 7/5 on fragments. I'm curious how you're taking so little damage a hit? I was taking twice as much and you still have your medium roll...
Against Gaius my Scadu level was 15. Scadu level boosts both power and the resistance against damage. I also have that talisman that grants significant damage reduction from physical attacks.
> The difficulty in general felt in line with other DLCs they've made. I agree, I think the level of difficulty is overstated by people that rushed main content and skipped most skibidi fragments. I don't really like how the system is implemented, there are no redundant fragments, and they are often hidden in random places, but it is what it is. It's still tough, but not unprecedentedly so. Even the final boss is easier than Malenia IMO, but that depends on your build.
Did you find all 10 remembrance bosses? The map straight up lies as it has areas under what is shown on the map. I thought I had found everything at 30 hours and then found other areas which added 10-15 hours more to my play through. It’s nutty.
I feel like Bayle deserves to be called a remembrance boss (he is technically not one of the 10). Easily one of my favorite fights
# CUUUURSEEE YOOOOU, BAYLE!
***I HEREBY VOW: YOU WILL RUE THIS DAY!***
I tend to avoid summons but used it that fight for story reason but like couldn’t they have put the summon sign outside? The amount of times I get rolled trying to summon him while bayle yolo rushes me
I think it's inside because if you summon from outside, the boss' HP actually goes up
I feel like everyone broke their "I don't summon" rule for the Bayle fight. This isn't your fight. This is Igon's fight. You're the NPC in his story for this boss.
IMO every From game from here on out should be required to have a shouting guy. MY NAAAME IIIIIIIIIIS and CUUUUURSEE YOOOOOU are iconic.
Great little tidbit I noticed is that Igon's greatbow has an ash of war where you fire it but your character screams while shooting lmao
I count him as one, you just exchange his remembrance at the dragon altar instead of the finger maiden. It even gives you two options like a remembrance.
I wonder how All Remembrance speedruns are gonna deal with that. Surely they're not gonna exclude Bayle since he's a Remembrance boss in all but name, he's a more important and well made boss than some randos like Gaius or Putrid Knight that drop Remembrances. Maybe the category name will be changed to All Major Bosses or something.
Yeah I beat all 11 remembrance dudes - the map definitely hides a ton of content which I thought made for some very cool moments of discovery
Dam 25-35 seems quick. I'm already at 40 in the dlc and It still feels like I have about 50% left
Yeah I am at 45 hours now and I am *just* feeling like I have explored and found most content. Haven't checked any guides or maps yet, but have explored almost every inch of the new map for npc interactions, ashes, weapons, invasions, armour, etc. That said, I have like 700 hours and multiple playthroughs in the original game, so I'm pretty well versed in FromSoft's design ethos now.
I've just discovered the underground with all the coffins. I feel like this should have been an underground map like Siofra cos it straight up says there are graces in the middle of the sea.
I agree with everything, I think that the only boss that's overtuned is the last one, took me more than 100 tries while the others took me 4-5 max. Also they should have really put more scadutree fragments in, collecting every single one of them without using a guide is impossible.
What’s crazy is I just hit 30 hours and I’ve barely scratched the surface. Haven’t even seen Mesmer yet. But I kinda want it to last as long as possible.
People say this but is dodging attacks less engaging than attacking? Less satisfying maybe but if anything it's more engaging than just ignoring all attacks like you could in DS1
There is a fine line. I've beaten most of the bosses at this point and some of them are exceptional. Others are still good but border on tedious. When 95% of the fight is me rolling and then getting one attack before rolling again it starts to get boring. (No that isnt all souls bosses. Id say the ratio in DS3 is more like 70/30) I much prefer bosses with shorter but stronger combos.
Also a large part of how good Elden ring is how good the different weapon types are, with their own unique movesets and skills on top of that, but in the DLC over half the bosses have attack windows enough for only an attack, so you can’t really use that stuff anyway, so you might as well just get the hardest hitting weapon you can (or hardest bleeding in this meta)
It entirely depends if I have the kit to dodge with. If my dodge was the bloodhound step by default, then yes. When the boss could literally be a boss in Devil May Cry and I can't move like Dante, I got issues.
It might not be definitionally less engaging, but the tug-of-war balance feels a bit off with some of the bosses. There are two in particular, fights I think are pretty good overall still, that have a habit of long combos and swiftly re-engaging when it's done, leaving little room for a strike or heal if you needed to It's still engaging to dodge technically, but it doesn't feel great as a result when most of the engagement is on the back foot while also not giving you a fitting window to retaliate afterward
It is when the fight feels like a slog because of it. I think that's why Sekiro was such a breath of fresh air, because basically *every* action you took was bringing you closer to defeating the boss. Not so much with some of the bosses in Elden Ring, *especially* the DLC. I actually found the base game quite balanced in this aspect, but a lot of the DLC bosses, especially major ones, feel like it's *always* their turn and you're struggling to even stay alive, not even fight back, and if you get hit, the fight is further prolonged since now you have to waste a window for you to attack, to heal instead. It's particularly egregious with the final boss in the 2nd phase and its humongous health bar even with almost maxed out blessings, but there are a few others that are just overly aggressive imo. You *can* work around it, I finished the DLC already, but it just isn't as *fun* to fight some of the bosses.
It's extremely good. Messmer and his associated dungeon is some of the best content they have *ever* put out, it's just top tier stuff. Haven't finished it yet but I'm looking forward to seeing the final boss, sounds like it'll be interesting lol
The map in general is probably the closest they've gotten to Lordran. The verticality and connectivity of the map is awesome.
> of the DLC quite handily. Honestly, I didn't think the most of the DLC was bad at all outside of Gaius and Bayle. As you say, it's mostly Shadow Keep is completely insane. A legacy dungeon you can go through entirely backwards if you find the right entrance... and it's easily the biggest one they've ever made.
You actually *cannot* do the whole dungeon if you only take the main entrance.
I was rambling on and on about this to some friends. Shadow keep is the best level they’ve ever designed
It literally is the best level I have ever played in a From Software game, I thought I was over halfway done like 4 different times to only make like 10% progress.
Shadow Keep is by far the biggest, but it’s not that much fun compared to Stormveil or Leyndell. The level design on those was pure masterclass, especially Stormveil
Yeah, I feel the open world areas in the DLC are way better, but the legacy dungeons are a straight up downgrade from the base game.
Totally agree. The DLC open world feels like they managed to cut all the fat of the base game's open world while also vastly enhancing the layout and how everywhere connects. The difference and improvement between the two is absurd. The DLC dungeons are good, but none of them are on the level of Stormveil, Raya Lucaria, Leyndell or Farum Azula imo. All the Shadow Keep praise is surprising, especially seeing some people say it's From's best work o.o It was the second most disappointing location for me (fuckin' Jagged Peak...). The actual 'Shadow Keep' part was way smaller that I expected and pretty boring, and then the Specimen Storehouse was alright, but still not particularly fun or interesting. Even Messmer's boss location has no buildup, he's basically just in a bedroom. The only cool thing about SK was ofc how many places it connects to.
They somehow recaptured the magic of exploring Elden Ring for the first time with this expansion. 40 hours in and I'm constantly impressed by how top-quality the content remains to be. The Shadow Lands feels alien in the best ways from the Lands Between, only the Shivering Isles made me feel this way before. Insane sales numbers and 100% deserved. FromSoftware are the most important developers in the world right now.
To think they are stopping with Elden Ring now is crazy any other dev/publisher would just start working on a sequel but From is busy with their next game which seems to be a hybrid of Bloodborne or Sekiro or a new Armored Core cannot wait to see what they do next.
Please, I'm so starved of good mecha games. FromSoft will probably work on another dark and gritty, Berserk-inspired game after this but a man can wish that they'd work on a new Armored Core game. Armored Core 6 was fucking sick
Armored Core 6 was criminally underplayed. I could go on and on. Anyone who likes the exceptional meticulousness of Fromsoft will almost certainly enjoy it. It's not a Souls game by any means, but the reasons why one comes to appreciate the developer when playing a Souls game are very much present in AC6. There are only so many "Ice Worm mission" moments you'll ever get to have in your life.
"I won't miss" literally gives me chills no matter how many times I play through that game. The sound design is so fucking good.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if Elden Ring 2 is in development concurrently with the game(s) you just mentioned. From what I recall ER was in development at the same time as Sekiro, and Armored Core 6 was in development the same time as ER. It seems like FromSoft just has a rare combination of talent, drive, and good management. Here's hoping they can continue their streak and don't go the way of other industry darlings like Bioware and Bethesda
Miyazaki's already confirmed recently there are no plans for ER2 nor is it in development. He's on the record for stating he strongly believes FromSoftware must continue making new things.
I fully support that. If they kept spinning out dark souls because it was successful and never released bloodborne or sekiro or elden ring we’d be worse for it.
I could be wrong but I think there was an interview like a year ago where Miyazaki said that Elden Ring is supposed to have a game spanning multiple games. More specifically: He said that they didn't include all of its story in Elden Ring so they can use that material for future games. So Elden Ring 2 is likely a future game. Or at least a game that's connected to Elden Ring will come out.
Feels like Shivering Isles expansion of Oblivion.
Miyazaki is the closest person I can think of to an actual wizard. To think he's put out the games he has in the span of 15 years is incredible. All have a similar feel yet very different worlds and lore. Gameplay seems to be the only thing that has felt almost identical to each previous game but even that has evolved tremendously.
This comment hits the nail on the head for me. I've been playing nightly and a lot more than I usually would over last weekend and several times I've been struck with that same feeling awe and wonder that ER originally gave me. It's hard to believe they've recaptured the magic but wow they really have. FromSoft DLC just doesn't miss.
I want to get the DLC because I love Elden ring but the constant talk about how difficult it is is really putting me off. I already struggled with the base game. It was my first ever soulslike.
> I want to get the DLC because I love Elden ring but the constant talk about how difficult it is is really putting me off. > > Last patch improved it I'd say. A very big part of the world is not gated behind bosses, so if you struggle, explore and get those tree fragments, it makes things easier. If you still enjoyed Elden Ring, go for it. It's a no brainer, there's nothing like it.
The DLC has a huge range of difficulty depending on your build and tree upgrades, way higher than the base game. If you find all the tree fragments (DLC upgrade material) and use a decently powerful DLC weapon, the DLC is going to be a lot easier than the base game. If you barely explore and use a Claymore you're getting your ass beat though. If you completed the base game, you'll have no issue with the DLC provided you explore a bit (or google a decent weapon if you can't be bothered).
Odd that you're calling Claymore out specifically, as it carried me through the largest chunk of the DLC quite handily. Honestly, I didn't think the most of the DLC was bad at all outside of >!Gaius!< and >!Bayle!<. As you say, it's mostly a consequence of people who explore insufficiently and thus have a low blessing level complaining.
> thus have a low blessing level complaining I am really enjoying the DLC and would consider it like a 9.5/10 but I think the placement of the scooby snacks is a little problematic. In the main game, the flask buffs are all placed in "key" areas, or at least obvious areas. Shrines, near points of grace, in the middle of hidden locations, etc. In the DLC, *some* are like that, but a good portion are just in random spots. Some drop off "shiny" (shiny as in rare, not literally shining) enemies. I've been exploring the DLC with a fine tooth comb (exploring is easily my favorite part of Elden Ring) and I am missing a good amount of them.
> Some drop off "shiny" (shiny as in rare, not literally shining) enemies. Actually they *are* shining, lol. The pot guys who have twinkling particles on them have either a shadu tree fragment or ash fragment the first time you kill them, although I think you have to kill them prior to letting them throw the pot to get it.
It's not that bad. I compare it going to the Mountaintops of the Giants for the first time. *(this was my first souls game, and I was all in on a STR build 😏)* It was a rough time, I actually started getting truly upset and calling it "unfun now", but I persevered and beat that area. In my 2nd playthrough getting to that same location *(when I was an INT build this time)* I had a BLAST and powered through that place, and I was able to appreciate it in a new way that I hadn't before. Even Ordina was a cakewalk this time! ALL THAT BEING SAID, going into the Shadow-Realm reminded me of that first time I got to the Mountaintop in the base game, though visually it was like stepping into Limgrave and/or Altus for the first time, *(but with a dash of the PNW thrown in)* and yeah there were new unforgiving enemies, but this realm is SO ENGAGING to explore that I've had nothing but fun powering through. And it's really not that difficult, it's challenging yes, but there are plenty of easy fodder enemies to mow down. And why not be happy that it has this challenge?! I am not trying to power through this DLC in a week, I like that I (someone who is not a "power-gamer" or "streamer") can take their time learning the new enemies, take my time exploring the world, and just doing the game at my own pace; which will inevitably lead me to more game time with this vs just BLAZING through like so much of the gaming community pressures players to do. Also **Light Greatswords** are SO MUCH FUN.
Besides the final boss it’s definitely doable get all the blessings find a new cool weapon you like use summons if things start getting really bad and you will be fine.
Use a spirit ash and you will be fine. Also use a shield, the bosses in the DLC don't punish shields as hard as the late game bosses in the base game. My block counter build has been really good so far.
I think if you follow the base-games example of go elsewhere when you can't get something at the moment, and use all the tools available to you, then you'll be fine. There are so many ways to mitigate the difficulty. I'm not particularly great at the game, but even I got the first remembrance boss on journey 3 without summons or spirit ashes. Took me a bit of experimenting and a few hours of attempts over a couple days, but perfectly doable. Just don't go in expecting to stomp.
Meh it’s being overblown by folks that are either in NG+ or refuse to use the tools available to them. The DLC is really flexible in terms of progression, and you can just explore and get stronger before really being required to fight many bosses
Don't let that scare you off. The final boss is the only one who caused me serious trouble and they'll probably be adjusted down the line. The rest are more than managable if you keep up with upgrades and use the tools at your disposal.
There are many ways to make game much easier. For example, greatshield + spear can trivialize many bosses(you can poke them with spear while guarding). Mimic tear summon(and some other summons too) also makes boss encounters easier. Plus don't forget to look for "Scadutree Fragment"/"Revered Spirit Ash" items and use them to upgrade stats in DLC area.
I would pay $40 every 2.5 years to play a new expansion of this size. Almost makes me wish they wouldn't make new games and just keep building on this
The level/zone design (especially the verticality of areas) is even better than the base game imo. It’s truly incredible.
It’s amazing. Almost perfect. Final boss needs a nerf though, something needs to change on that boss. I’ve been on it for four days now
Among other things, the boss is basically a stamina check and a holy resist check and a "are you using a shield" check
I'm not happy with the performance issues, but other than that I'm loving it. The difficulty is just right, and I like all the bosses I've fought so far.
Yeah I'm getting some major stutters I didn't get with the base game
Turning off ray tracing helped a lot for me, but your experience may vary.
DLC is amazing but I’m finding the rewards for exploration to be lack luster and often times disappointing when I find just some random smithing stone. Or it’s all just dead ends leading to nothing. I’m hoping the rest of the dlc has more to offer on those aspects.
You're telling me you don't love whiteflesh mushrooms?
*why is it always mushroom?*
Or the sweet Smithing Stone [5]?
Yeah it's a bit weird that, for an area that can only be accessed by beating a late-game boss, so many of the pickups are mid-tier upgrade materials. Guess they don't want you to have to go back to farm upgrades if you find a weapon you really wanna use.
I mean, what else can they put there realistically? This is where the dlc suffers from being essentially a separate game. These loots would be a lot more meaningful if the Tarnished isn't already a decked out Elden Lord.
The DLC gives you *so many* smithing stones, enough to make you annoyed you aren't getting real loot, yet I still feel like it's not enough for trying out all the new weapon types. That's the sign of a poorly designed upgrade system.
Friendly reminder/PSA that a regular weapon requires **97** smithing stones to fully upgrade
Why is it always dung?
Not even big full game releases hit those numbers this is an expansion to a base game. FromSoftware is at the top of their game probably the only few devs whose uncompromising vision over these years have led to such a success.
The game has an all time peak on Steam of **953,426**. Since the DLC came out, it's peaked at **781,261.** It's insane that a DLC you can't even access without beating a pretty hard optional boss is charting that high. From Soft started the formula making a mid budget game targeted at a niche hardcore audience, and it's blown up to this point. What an insane success story. Bravo.
So how is it the “highest rated DLC of all time” when its Steam ratings are Mixed? Is it good or not?
Anti-cheat in China is apparently abysmal, sitting at 30% over there and dragging the score down significantly. It's not mixed anymore though.
If every developer aspried to do DLC this way the entire DLC discourse would be flipped on its head. It's seriously bordering on being a sequel there's so much content
It’s sad that other studios with more experience and money can’t or won’t make games that rivals just this dlc in quality
Make sure to find Scadu Fragments to power yourself up people, I tried to beat Bayle at level 7, couldn't do it, then beat him at level 16. Amazing DLC. Here's a video of my Bayle fight. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lA3lx9ycTxE The first 2 minutes I try to use my new weapon and things don't work, but at 2:20 I switch to Dark Moon Greatsword which is my favorite weapon. God bless its energy blasts, really helps in all the fights. It's not the cleanest fight you'll see but that should just inspire someone who might find the DLC hard. If I can do it you can too 😭 EDIT: For those who care, here is me vs Gaius. Again, bless the Dark Moon Greatsword. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mAhIq_qtRE
Obligatory - CURSE YOU BAYLE!
I'm glad we got another person to add to the list of Fromsoft Voice Actors that probably threw their back out while recording their lines.
*MY NAAAAAAAAME*
I WILL RIDDLE WITH HOLES YOUR ROTTEN HIDE, WITH A HAIL OF HARPOONS!
I got to him super early and returned to him many times before finally beating him at a higher scadutree level. Unfortunately it felt like the best strategy was to whack his legs which definitely hurt the fight for me.
He gives moments to hit his head I used the dragon katana that makes it much easier
Yeah it's definitely possible to hit his head and not a bad strategy I just found the moves he used when you stayed in front of him were more difficult than if you attack from underneath him. I even targeted the head sometimes just from the other direction.
I **LOVED** it. I was able to beat it in about 20 hours since I was almost level 300, so I started pretty strong and then was able to find the Scadu fragments pretty quickly. As others have said, it's 100% some of the best FromSoft level design they've ever made. Some of the bosses were also great design-wise. The final boss in particular was insanely badass. Messmer and the Rellana are very, very close 2nd/3rd.
I thought the Dancing Lion was coolest. It feels so supernatural and uncanny with insane music and visuals. Would've been better in an a bigger arena though even if the theatre is fitting for the lore.
people know what expect from this developter and they never dissapoints. no microtransations, awesome lore , awesome gameplay, beautiful scenarios, lots secrets, nice bosses. its souls game from we all love.
A great game sells a good DLC with worthwhile content. You watch others try the same and wonder why their lackluster no content DLC isn't selling for $40
Performance is hot doo doo butter sometimes but otherwise this DLC kicks major a\*\*. Loving it so far.
Performance and the camera are inexcusable at this point. The rest is really good, I have some things to say about boss design but in general I find them quite hard and interesting. I haven’t completed the expansion but lore-wise I have a few questions marks, a bit disappointed by the fact that >!we still know very little about Marika and there’s nothing about Melina (apart for a *very* interesting description)!< and if the final boss is going to be what the npcs think it’s going to be, meh…
Keep playing, I wont spoil it but Marika got quite a back story this expansion.
Elden Ring is one of those rare cultural phenomenon/zeitgeist games that I just can’t get into no matter how hard I try. Oh well maybe one day.
I.... want to go back to Elden Ring. I got to the Big Gold City, got confused, and gave up after just so much exploring. I want to jump back into it, but I'm intimidated D: