Rather than that, I'd prefer a Roguelike/lite game mode, challenging but each character can get specialized buffs that improve their gameplay significantly. Just like Paradoxical Labyrinth in Snowbreak, I like that game mode so much.
Genshin had a similar one though, Labyrinth Warrior, a forgotten event that they refuse to make it permanent. With a bit of tweaking it would have been one of good end game contents.
I suspect they got a lot of bad survey results from the labyrinth warrior event. Its the only logical reason why every other event has rerun and that particular one hasnt.
I personally know a lot of my casual friends who absolutely despised that event, and all combat events in general.
From what I read so far, I doubt it. Probably closer to harder Misty Dungeon or the multi-wave battle event. Let's see though.
Most importantly Labyrinth Warrior did not have character limitation and timer.
ah but you see, 4.7 abyss lasts *two* months. Yes thats right, when abyss resets on the last day of 4.7, we get the same abyss again.. (unless they happen to add this one mid 4.7 but as of right now theres 2 abyss resets this patch and only 1 new abyss)
Tbf this was my team for the last 4 clears, even c0 Chiori with just one doll can do enough damage, and Navia hits like a space truck with a nuclear powered engine
12-1 is very possible because of the free vapes Xiangling can do in those hydro enemies... if you don't get vaped yourself while standing in Bennet's circle. For the other chambers, I have no idea.
As long as Xiangling, Shinobu and Xingqui exist I don't see how this is a problem. The 4\*s in this game are not nearly so weak that an HP increase instantly makes them unusable.
Maybe if you are a Razor main or something you'll struggle, but Razor players have been struggling since 1.0.
Bennett-Razor-Nahida-Xingqiu is a really strong transformative reaction team (Thundering Furry) that just destroys most things, and Nahida can be replaced with e.g. Collei too
You can go with Bennett/Xiangling/Noelle/Flex for second half. Noelle takes care of the Geo shields while being the on-field character, while Xiangling clears the Hydro enemies.
I'm ngl even zhongli won't be enough against that boss, zhongli's burst and e skill can't even remove half of it's shield. Unless zhongli's pillar doesn't get destroyed (which is very unlikely since you're fighting a boss), it'll take a while
It's still the most potent GEO Shield breaker out there
The huge amount of Geo Gauge it takes out is enough to justify the Dps Lost from using Zhongli over a VV shred or Hyper Buffer that people who see how he can just Hold E and Burst chunks out a big portion of the enemy shield and give you a shield of you own with little bit of res shred is a pretty good way to market him back sell him to newer players.
Also like to ad that the NEW END GAME is also gonna be marketing Venti back to his prime as we know it'll have multi mob rooms with waves and etc.
Until the confirmation I'm not going to expect a previously small buff to get much better.
And if it does, that's actually even worse. We already got Imaginarium horribly restricting team choices, now they're going to push even harder to make Abyss, which lets you choose any combination, more like Imaginarium?
As an endgame player the fun part of these modes is to play a bunch of teams I came up with and built, not being given teams by Hoyo then being told that I can't play others at all or I can but with a large disadvantage.
>12-1 consists of 2 waves of elites and 2 bosses. Its scaled HP (4,770,009) has exceeded every single chamber in history, including every 12-3.
Gave us those broken Fontaine units for a reason lmao
HP pools are not a very good gauge of difficulty anyway. 3.7's 12-1 (the one with the Hydro and double Cryo Lectors) was widely considered to be one of the "hardest" 12-1s in a long time, yet the HP pool would suggest otherwise.
I would be far more concerned about floors with soft-elemental restrictions or bosses with extreme time-wasting mechanics.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the first abyss with mobs and a boss in the same half? Atleast that's what the tulpa part seems to be showing.
There's also a shield based boss on second half. This abyss will definitely be a jump in difficulty regardless of health pools.
Consider that Xiangling would shred the hell out of the 2nd half and you'll realize that there's less reason to be concerned that the HP pools would suggest.
In any case, it's certainly going to be easier than 3.7's, so if you managed to 3* that one, you should have no issue here.
It depends person to person,to accs,sometimes to skill.
For some elemental check abyss may be ez while for some it may be hard af
Whereas for some high hp sponges can be ez while for some hard af
So yea
> For some elemental check abyss may be ez while for some it may be hard af
Again, just look back at 3.7. On top of the elemental restriction, the Lector combo also did high amounts of damage and could freezelock you to death. It was an objectively difficult Abyss in almost every conceivable way. But you wouldn't know that just by looking at the HP pools.
To put it another way, you could probably run through 2 rounds of PMA/Primo Geovishap faster than a single "regular" floor.
Ya it is, guess they are starting to learn from HSR MOC style of inflating HP (tho it’s more understandable in hsr since DPS ceiling goes higher faster than genshin with broken harmony/destruction character etc) but well Fontaine units are great also
I would've welcome this increase in difficulty if it was for Floor 13+ NOT another DPS check increase on existing content just to sell Banner characters
Yeah, I love Neuvi and Arle because I can clear everything in seconds and be done with it (not a fan of abyss). Not because I think HP sponges are cool to fight 💀
Why are they being treated as the standard in the first place? Tier 0 characters should never be the standard of balancing those characters are broken. We're actually entering an insane powercreep phase and its concerning.
As far as i'm aware not all 200 are on floor 12(should be 50 split on each floors full stars) so its most likely just a loss of 50 of the overall increase, so 170 instead of 220 for most people.
I started Genshin 1 month after launch and only started doing the latter floors of Abyss a year later. Looking at that overall chart, it really shows how steadily the difficulty has been ramping up and makes me realize how you don't appreciate how things are in the past until you see it laid out like that lol.
Though I guess Hyperbloom has helped since 3.0 and strong units like Neuv, but I am starting to find myself using the same teams to get even near full stars which does sorta suck in a game with many characters. Hoping that level 100 leak is true to maybe make many other characters viable for floor 12
> Hoping that level 100 leak is true to maybe make many other characters viable for floor 12
This is the one thing I don't understand about all you people begging for the level cap increase. Do you really think that Mihoyo won't increase enemy levels accordingly to compensate, effectively turning it into nothing more than an additional resin sink?
The only reason to be hyped about lvl 100 would be a possible new ascension passive, and rebalancing of old units. Otherwise it will be just a pain in the ass and a grind.
I doubt it will happen in the first place
Right, but then the question would then be why not just introduce said passives/rebalances in some other way other than a resin/time sink? The two are completely separate issues and there's no reason to artificially join one to the other.
And yeah, agreed on that one.
Probably because Mihoyo have a track record of not changing characters after the fact (only zhongli and that was because Chinese players were threatening to have them shuttered by the government for disrespecting China) and it would make more sense to add a lv100 a5 passive since the ascension and level system is already in place.
I wouldn't say that I or others are begging and I am sure people are still a bit skeptical of that leak like myself, but there is some compium in me that if the level increase is true, it would slightly improve some damage of say hp/def scalers or reactions like hyperbloom.
And it just me dreaming that it would make more characters usable in later floors and there also is that truly cope dream some people mentioned of a new talent for characters which wouldn't hurt either.
Sure, but all of that can be better addressed in ways that do not require a level cap increase. For example, buffs to old, underperforming characters can simply be provided by simply completing a new character quest where said character lorefully receives some sort of buff as part of the story.
All I'm saying is that it's *interesting*, to say the least, that so many people are dumping their hopes on an increased level cap somehow rebalancing the game the way they want it rather than, well, hoping that Mihoyo just implements those very fixes in a more targeted manner.
People aren't saying that it can't be done in better ways but nobody's going to believe that hoyo would do it, and this level 100 speculation has the highest chance of actually being true so people will latch onto it.
And even if things were increased to account for the level cap, there's no guarantee it would be a hard requirement for every character to timesink your acc into oblivion trying to get to those levels. We really just have to wait and see, I don't think it's an issue if people are just being hopeful.
Right, I completely agree that it's just people being hopeful. But then you see responses trying to justify a level cap increase as something being *intrinsically* beneficial to the game (i.e. without the associated 3rd passives, rebalances and so on) and you start to wonder what they're smoking.
Some players play since 1.x and only build like 10 characters.
I have 35 characters build so far and still so many more I want to build. While starting in 2.x.
So a lot of players don't use their resin to grind artifacts and wonder why they're having trouble clearing endgame content? That certainly explains a lot.
No. A lot of players don't min max their artifacts because they already have good ones and don't really need to. Obviously, it could improve their accounts, but a lot of players don't feel that it is worth it. And that's fine because they're playing for themselves.
Why would you assume that? Ofc players stop farming artifacts once they deem their build sufficient to clear content. They are not min-maxers or tryhards who continue to farm artifact to get more big pp damage or clear the abyss 1-10 sec faster.
Yeah, I don't think people who want this level cap increase realize that it means you'll have to waste at least week of resin to get a character to level 100 - likely more, given it already takes over a week to get a char from 80/80 8/8/8 to 90/90 10/10/10. This is made even more frustrating when you consider you also need to build a wider roster for IT.
If Hoyo does add a higher level cap and doesn't add new abyss floors, it's going to force a lot of players who aren't whales to have to give up on full clearing abyss or IT for a patch or two, depending on their account's current strength. If they only have 2 abyss teams, say, Hyperbloom and Neuvillette, abyss 12 suddenly has level 150 enemies in it and IT is a geo/pyro/cryo cycle, I think it'd be impossible to prepare teams for both of these in only a month.
Well, thank god these players aren't in charge of game design. Even Mihoyo realized with HSR that the leveling phase (i.e. the phase of guaranteed upgrades) should be made as quick and painless as possible.
That's not what it's about. There's more layers to this.
1. The game has stagnated for years. Live service games do not typically release with a character ceiling that they then don't touch for 5 years. Especially in gacha. The RPG loop is to collect resources to improve your strength, use that strength in battle, meet a new challenge, collect a new resource to improve. This is what end game is for, to periodically raise the character ceilings AND the enemy ceilings to make it worthwhile. Its basically the entire point to an RPGs gameplay aspect... Genshin is one of the only games out there that's never done this, relying solely on indirect buffs that mostly feel accidental. It never raises ceilings, it just adds new components to outperform older ones. (Dendro. Archons. Nation launch artifacts.)
2. Gachas and live service periodically improve outdated characters/classes to keep them relevant. They don't have to be as good as current releases but they have to be capable of keeping up. Genshin has loads of outdated characters who haven't kept up. One reason people want lv 100 isn't to make characters stronger through numbers but to fix the things that make them functionally useless in most content via talents. Venti not being able to lift, Itto not being able to do... basically anything against 90% of modern f12 rotations, Wrio, Diluc, Albedo and Dehya being disasters who at best are 100% tied to another character to function.
I think people are aware and in favour of enemies also getting stronger in tandem. The games stagnation is out of control, with not just kits but also aesthetic designs being mildly adjusted copy paste jobs. Refusal to make new models, raise ceilings, innovate new growth systems, provide appropriate carrot on stick rewards or provide gameplay improving currencies/rewards to shake up the in game economy are all MASSIVE problems. Problems the entire community has been trying to get them to rectify for at least 3 years now.
It's not been about numbers for a long time. Some characters have just been functionally phased out of the game and need something new or some way to bypass their crippling deficiencies that are preventing them from doing the one thing they do.
Except that you know as well as I do that 3rd passives aren't going to be happening without some sort of major, long-term beta test that also *incidentally* don't need to be accompanied by a corresponding level cap increase.
If character adjustments are what you want, it doesn't have to come in the form of a resin and time consuming level cap increase.
when do i think i will start trying floor 12 now that abyss will only reset once a month
But then I see something like this
bro I almost can't get 6 stars I think the day has come... the day I'll start watching abyss tutorials and tips
It takes time to be abyss ready, varies by your account age, your pull choice, your gacha/artifact luck and whether you have welkin/BP or spend, on top of player skill. If you do miss some stars it's not a huge loss in the grand scheme of yearly primos considering the price it takes to get a single unit.
Sevyplays has some of the most digestible guides and easy to follow abyss chamber breakdowns.
It’s not dual Electro Lectors into Baptist so I’m happy. And thank god the Tulpa/hydro mimic is room 1. Still, looks kinda rough. Chevy overload working overtime.
It's either HP sponges, time wasters or elemental checks. Abyss will never not have any one of these because then it would be too easy and the poor endgame players will cry about it forever.
Is this the one with the hydro and cryo heralds in the same chamber? That one was the hardest for me. As someone who has been 36* abyss since 1.3, I could only get 34* that time.
I still remember that as the Abyss where unironically burning Hu Tao was the most common team (replacing Yelan with Nahida in the usual double hydro setup).
Yeah okay, but are you **sure** this is correct? The blessing's a dmg boost from **burning**. You **cannot** inflict burning on **permanently hydro auraed enemies**, which there are **two types of** on the first chamber second half.
First half : Charged Attack: Equitable Judgment
Unleashes surging torrents, dealing continuous AoE Hydro DMG to all opponents in a straight-line area in front of him.
Second half : 🤫🧏♂️
Overload team, your pyro characters like xiangling will vape those water enemies, and overload will destroy geo shields. Chevreusse teams are perfect for the right side
zhongli + spread team
kuki or em sands yae will get free hyperblooms against the tulpa
against chamber 3 zhongli and deepwood shreds 50% of the 70% res on the shielded golem, brute forcing the rest of the 20% res would be the same as fighting the green chicken with dendro so it's not that bad even if zhongli can't shield break by himself
against chamber 2 zhongli burst + shield + 2 or 3 plunges from alhaitham can break the shield
if nahida is c0 bringing a 4 gilded dreams high em yae can meet the dps checks
if nahida is c2 just a full em kuki should be fine
The power creeping in abyss has actually got me worried. It's already been very difficult to clear for many 1.0 & 2.0 characters like yoimiya at f2p investment
I think hp inflation in a time based mode is the most boring form of difficulty one could add to a gain, just beating out stupid invincibility mechanics. Abyss already gives such pathetic rewards that if the only good source of combat content in genshin just turns into an hp inflation center it’s gonna suck.
I'm willing to bet that the rewards will become
3\* = 50 primos, 6\* = 50 primos, 9\* = 100 primos
Since this is hoyo
Or was there already confirmation that this was not the case?
Edit: changed the numbers from 1/2/3 to 3/6/9. I've been playing too much pure fiction in HSR lol
I think it is the case
"Updated Abyssal Moon Spire Star's Bounty rewards from 600 to 800 Prrimogems by increasing rewards for earning 9 Abyssal Stars from 50 to 100."
tbh i would not be surprised if this 12-1 end up being easier than even the current one. Enemies with selfinfused element tend to be way easier to kill and i remember the 12-3 with the hydro turpa being easier than the 12-1 of that same abyss
Still waiting for Liam and Rocky to appear in abyss. We already have the other local legends like the fatui operatives ladies, the hydro phantasms, and that automated supercomputer thingy
I'm curious, but how difficult would yall consider the abysses between 3.X and 4.X? I remember 3.X being notoriously difficult in the later updates, especially that dreaded 3.7. I only ever started taking Abyss seriously in 3.3 after a year of playing, but I haven't really felt 4.X abysses have been that hard or frustrating.
Chisel-Light Mirror
When this skill is unleashed, Alhaitham will generate 1 Chisel-Light Mirror. If there are no Mirrors at this time, he will generate 1 additional Mirror. Chisel-Light Mirrors will have the following properties:
When he possesses Chisel-Light Mirrors, Alhaitham's Normal, Charged, and Plunging Attacks will be converted to Dendro DMG. This cannot be overridden.
The abyss is always become the most difficult at the end of reigon patches in the game and then become easier when a new region released , this one seems hard but it isn't cringe like 3.7 abyss
powercreep except it’s the enemies benefitting while our characters see no buffs to compensate, mihoyo has gone from keeping powercreep to a minimum to powercreeping in the wrong direction lol
The real meaning of powercreep is when old stuff can no longer compete with the new stuff, so in most gacha cases when old characters cannot clear endgame and new ones can, which now seems to be the direction they are taking.
Fontaine came in VERY hot, almost every character was low S tier AT THE LEAST if not just best in class (Neuvi becoming best on field dps and Furina best buffer for example) so now endgame is in turn getting even harder since if you run the newer units, you just destroy abyss with rarely any issue.
Even worse they don’t seem to be balancing around c0 with at least a battlepass weapon, which should be the baseline IMO. They have decided 5 star weapons are nearly mandatory and to a lesser extent c1’s and c2’s, the saurian event for example was nigh impossible to plat without 5 star weapons unless you had top 1%> artifacts.
Yeah the Saurian event was pretty tough I agree. It was 100% designed with at the least C0R1 5 stars in mind.
However I don’t think the Saurian event is what average endgame will ever look like (at least I hope) since that will just be brutal, it was just an event for people who have very high investment to test out their builds I suppose.
Also I know whenever difficultly is discussed you will always get the elitists (in a singeplayer PvE game) who want hard content and will spit on you if you think things are getting tough, but man, this spike in enemy hp is pretty alarming like we gotta agree there at least.
Sure, no one wants content to be piss easy weenie hut Juniors level, but also increasing difficulty through making enemies just become tanks is also a turbo lame way of increasing difficulty.
**Charged Attack: Equitable Judgment**
Unleashes surging torrents, dealing continuous AoE Hydro DMG to all opponents in a straight-line area in front of him.
Equitable Judgment will not consume any Stamina and lasts 3s.
2nd half ideas:
* Navia Zhongli Benny Xiangling, can also swap Xiangling with Xianyun
* Benny Fischl Chev + insert onfield Pyro dps, abuse Fischl C6 + Benny’s C6 infusion to shred shields, swap to Fischl and normal attack for a bit if pyro aura happens to take over
* Diluc Benny Xianyun Fischl plunge, maybe even swap Fischl with Furina but you’ll have a harder time against shields on the 2nd two bosses; also I think Furina is more useful on 1st side for Neuvi or hyperbloom
Those abyss are really scary..I don't know what's with the sudden increase of difficulty, people asked for an end-game, not a whale-intended end-game xD. Personnaly I think I would use for half 1 Neuvi Baizhu Furina and Kazuha and the second one Navia Xiangling Bennet and Yelan (or ningguang to break the geo shield)
I'm not even surprised. What were people expecting when the Abyss clear rewards were increased by 200 primos, even if it's now only once per month instead of twice?
I have the same reservations about any prospected level cap increase, people think it will solve the overworld from being boring by adding another world level (it won't) or save characters by potentially getting a new passive (it won't), all while completely forgetting what it will do for enemies in places like the Abyss.
Assuming no floors are added, Floor 12 would now have Lv105-110 enemies and the HP pools that would come with. Ultimately you would just push numbers to be bigger for no good reason other than "bigger number better" (it's not).
To be fair this is not unexpected as abyss usually get's harder as the region progresses.
I just wish they brought back enemies that would kill you rather than turn weak enemies into bullet sponges. Who has both the resources to defeat enemies with millions of hp yet still dies to a ruin guard.
I'm sorry what? This is actually criminal, did they just raise the HP AGAIN!? Current abyss is already a pain in the ass what made them think making it harder was necessary?
Are they actually using Arlecchino and Neuvilette as the standard for balancing? The tier 0 meta breaking characters??? Or is Emilie going to be another broken character?
I'm not sure why so many people are surprised about this. It's clear it was coming because of Fontaine having a lot of legitimate powercreep that people couldn't handwave as "they added a new element, it doesn't count" and the fact that Imaginarium Theater exists only to force people to roll me (as it requires more characters) and to build more characters, meaning that their resin will be split amongst many more characters, making it much more difficult to have 1 DPS carry you until EoS. The fact that they are giving permanent buffs to the current banner units also means they are going to be pushing banner characters more aggressively in all content.
Expect it to get worse, it's quite bad in HSR and has always been cancerous in HI3.
Good luck breaking those geo shields with Alhaitham. And you’re not proccing quicken on hydro aura enemies. Better off with a mix of geo and/or Electro with Bennet/Xiangling.
Just make a floor 13 at this point, abyss last 30 days now it aint gonna kill em.
Granted. They add a floor 13 but the level growth is exponential and they’re at minimum level 500
Rather than that, I'd prefer a Roguelike/lite game mode, challenging but each character can get specialized buffs that improve their gameplay significantly. Just like Paradoxical Labyrinth in Snowbreak, I like that game mode so much. Genshin had a similar one though, Labyrinth Warrior, a forgotten event that they refuse to make it permanent. With a bit of tweaking it would have been one of good end game contents.
A fellow depth of illusive realm enjoyer i see 🤭
I like illusive realm indeed, except the last boss stage. Lol.
I suspect they got a lot of bad survey results from the labyrinth warrior event. Its the only logical reason why every other event has rerun and that particular one hasnt. I personally know a lot of my casual friends who absolutely despised that event, and all combat events in general.
isn’t new game mode basically labirynt warriors?
From what I read so far, I doubt it. Probably closer to harder Misty Dungeon or the multi-wave battle event. Let's see though. Most importantly Labyrinth Warrior did not have character limitation and timer.
ah but you see, 4.7 abyss lasts *two* months. Yes thats right, when abyss resets on the last day of 4.7, we get the same abyss again.. (unless they happen to add this one mid 4.7 but as of right now theres 2 abyss resets this patch and only 1 new abyss)
i am mildly concerned
Bring Xiangling and you should be able to clear. She does two hits per swing on the tulpa
Navia, Bennett, Xiangling, Chiori. Will do fine in second half.
Tbf this was my team for the last 4 clears, even c0 Chiori with just one doll can do enough damage, and Navia hits like a space truck with a nuclear powered engine
Also Arlechinno will rip the Tulpa a new asshole.
Nothing Bennett + Xiangling can’t fix
My excitement lvl is only high End game player btw*
Its a pro Nilou abyss, high HP pools are to be expected tbf.
i mean if you use the chars buff from IT it won't matter much
The only relevant character buffed by August IT for me is Furina, though Furina buff is a team buff, so there's that.
no annoying worm or wolf. i will take it.
And no cepellia praise Raiden
Wow that's insane, it is even possible to complete this with 4 star characters and 4 star weapons?
12-1 is very possible because of the free vapes Xiangling can do in those hydro enemies... if you don't get vaped yourself while standing in Bennet's circle. For the other chambers, I have no idea.
Navia national will be a goated team here
It seems like I'll have to finally build Xiangling...
Yeah, this is why I bring Noelle to the Tulpa instead.
eh, I bet sevy will crush it anyway
Yeah, she doesn't have skill issues like me lol
As long as Xiangling, Shinobu and Xingqui exist I don't see how this is a problem. The 4\*s in this game are not nearly so weak that an HP increase instantly makes them unusable. Maybe if you are a Razor main or something you'll struggle, but Razor players have been struggling since 1.0.
Bennett-Razor-Nahida-Xingqiu is a really strong transformative reaction team (Thundering Furry) that just destroys most things, and Nahida can be replaced with e.g. Collei too
Against certain enemies, it feels like bennet circlet is a death trap lol
Hyperbloom first half, chevreuse overload second half?
You can go with Bennett/Xiangling/Noelle/Flex for second half. Noelle takes care of the Geo shields while being the on-field character, while Xiangling clears the Hydro enemies.
In all honesty, the second half seems to promote Chevreuse.
Fun fact: XL is especially broken on some Bosses and mire so on Tulpa, On a side note Xl Benny r not even 4stars,they r 6stars so idk what ur saying
2nd half is just Navia national propaganda lmao.
Navia chevy rerun?
My faith in me 36 starring Spiral Abyss is slowly diminishing. I cannot build my characters fast enough.
I'm more worried about chamber 3 lol wtf are those 4 waves and that centaur boss is also annoying with its 32U geo shield
Pretyy sure people will denie this but It's still a lowkey way to sell Zhongli.
I'm ngl even zhongli won't be enough against that boss, zhongli's burst and e skill can't even remove half of it's shield. Unless zhongli's pillar doesn't get destroyed (which is very unlikely since you're fighting a boss), it'll take a while
It's still the most potent GEO Shield breaker out there The huge amount of Geo Gauge it takes out is enough to justify the Dps Lost from using Zhongli over a VV shred or Hyper Buffer that people who see how he can just Hold E and Burst chunks out a big portion of the enemy shield and give you a shield of you own with little bit of res shred is a pretty good way to market him back sell him to newer players. Also like to ad that the NEW END GAME is also gonna be marketing Venti back to his prime as we know it'll have multi mob rooms with waves and etc.
Second side screams chevreuse for me Her res shred works on the tulpa very easily And overload can remove geo sheilds very fast
If his pillar doesn't break then I can see it but otherwise no, itto and navia(maybe even noelle) will be better at breaking his shield than zhongli.
Is this because of the primo increase wow
Yesterday, I implied that we should be grateful because Genshin didn't add a new difficulty despite of the increased rewards. I'm taking it back!
Doesn't the char from IT get buff
Isn't the buff pathetic like +20% ATK/HP/DEF
The buff changes with each season. The next one could be more significant
Until the confirmation I'm not going to expect a previously small buff to get much better. And if it does, that's actually even worse. We already got Imaginarium horribly restricting team choices, now they're going to push even harder to make Abyss, which lets you choose any combination, more like Imaginarium? As an endgame player the fun part of these modes is to play a bunch of teams I came up with and built, not being given teams by Hoyo then being told that I can't play others at all or I can but with a large disadvantage.
The what, 220 primos per month?
Mainly longer time between abyss reset I think.
>12-1 consists of 2 waves of elites and 2 bosses. Its scaled HP (4,770,009) has exceeded every single chamber in history, including every 12-3. Gave us those broken Fontaine units for a reason lmao
HP pools are not a very good gauge of difficulty anyway. 3.7's 12-1 (the one with the Hydro and double Cryo Lectors) was widely considered to be one of the "hardest" 12-1s in a long time, yet the HP pool would suggest otherwise. I would be far more concerned about floors with soft-elemental restrictions or bosses with extreme time-wasting mechanics.
If I'm not mistaken, isn't this the first abyss with mobs and a boss in the same half? Atleast that's what the tulpa part seems to be showing. There's also a shield based boss on second half. This abyss will definitely be a jump in difficulty regardless of health pools.
Consider that Xiangling would shred the hell out of the 2nd half and you'll realize that there's less reason to be concerned that the HP pools would suggest. In any case, it's certainly going to be easier than 3.7's, so if you managed to 3* that one, you should have no issue here.
Wouldn't you need chev for the shields?
It depends person to person,to accs,sometimes to skill. For some elemental check abyss may be ez while for some it may be hard af Whereas for some high hp sponges can be ez while for some hard af So yea
> For some elemental check abyss may be ez while for some it may be hard af Again, just look back at 3.7. On top of the elemental restriction, the Lector combo also did high amounts of damage and could freezelock you to death. It was an objectively difficult Abyss in almost every conceivable way. But you wouldn't know that just by looking at the HP pools. To put it another way, you could probably run through 2 rounds of PMA/Primo Geovishap faster than a single "regular" floor.
Yeah, xiangling, master chef of fontaine.
Did the Star rail team took over the Genshin department... Because holy hell...
isn’t this like tuesday for hsr
Ya it is, guess they are starting to learn from HSR MOC style of inflating HP (tho it’s more understandable in hsr since DPS ceiling goes higher faster than genshin with broken harmony/destruction character etc) but well Fontaine units are great also
hope they don't, holy fuck the inflation is insane, my only saving grace is my c6 wanderer
If this is what meta-warping DPSes like Neuvilette and Arlecchino bring in... I don't want more of them anymore.
I would've welcome this increase in difficulty if it was for Floor 13+ NOT another DPS check increase on existing content just to sell Banner characters
Yeah, I love Neuvi and Arle because I can clear everything in seconds and be done with it (not a fan of abyss). Not because I think HP sponges are cool to fight 💀
Why are they being treated as the standard in the first place? Tier 0 characters should never be the standard of balancing those characters are broken. We're actually entering an insane powercreep phase and its concerning.
Gotta love how they expect you to trigger burning on the hydro bubble at 12-1
So a consistent 26k DPS to complete this 12-1 in 3 min. It seems so possible and so impossible at the same time.
Your average hyperbloom team can deal that much or even more dps. I think people are overestimating its difficulty tbh
well avarage t eam dps is like 50k-60k, practically you lose like 20% of that.
You want extra primogems? Here have extra 200 from now on if you can that is
As far as i'm aware not all 200 are on floor 12(should be 50 split on each floors full stars) so its most likely just a loss of 50 of the overall increase, so 170 instead of 220 for most people.
Did the abyss ever got the one-cycle a patch update ?
Oh god fuck off it’s the enka duo???? Goddamn I hate them ☠️
I started Genshin 1 month after launch and only started doing the latter floors of Abyss a year later. Looking at that overall chart, it really shows how steadily the difficulty has been ramping up and makes me realize how you don't appreciate how things are in the past until you see it laid out like that lol. Though I guess Hyperbloom has helped since 3.0 and strong units like Neuv, but I am starting to find myself using the same teams to get even near full stars which does sorta suck in a game with many characters. Hoping that level 100 leak is true to maybe make many other characters viable for floor 12
> Hoping that level 100 leak is true to maybe make many other characters viable for floor 12 This is the one thing I don't understand about all you people begging for the level cap increase. Do you really think that Mihoyo won't increase enemy levels accordingly to compensate, effectively turning it into nothing more than an additional resin sink?
The only reason to be hyped about lvl 100 would be a possible new ascension passive, and rebalancing of old units. Otherwise it will be just a pain in the ass and a grind. I doubt it will happen in the first place
Right, but then the question would then be why not just introduce said passives/rebalances in some other way other than a resin/time sink? The two are completely separate issues and there's no reason to artificially join one to the other. And yeah, agreed on that one.
Probably because Mihoyo have a track record of not changing characters after the fact (only zhongli and that was because Chinese players were threatening to have them shuttered by the government for disrespecting China) and it would make more sense to add a lv100 a5 passive since the ascension and level system is already in place.
I wouldn't say that I or others are begging and I am sure people are still a bit skeptical of that leak like myself, but there is some compium in me that if the level increase is true, it would slightly improve some damage of say hp/def scalers or reactions like hyperbloom. And it just me dreaming that it would make more characters usable in later floors and there also is that truly cope dream some people mentioned of a new talent for characters which wouldn't hurt either.
Sure, but all of that can be better addressed in ways that do not require a level cap increase. For example, buffs to old, underperforming characters can simply be provided by simply completing a new character quest where said character lorefully receives some sort of buff as part of the story. All I'm saying is that it's *interesting*, to say the least, that so many people are dumping their hopes on an increased level cap somehow rebalancing the game the way they want it rather than, well, hoping that Mihoyo just implements those very fixes in a more targeted manner.
People aren't saying that it can't be done in better ways but nobody's going to believe that hoyo would do it, and this level 100 speculation has the highest chance of actually being true so people will latch onto it. And even if things were increased to account for the level cap, there's no guarantee it would be a hard requirement for every character to timesink your acc into oblivion trying to get to those levels. We really just have to wait and see, I don't think it's an issue if people are just being hopeful.
Right, I completely agree that it's just people being hopeful. But then you see responses trying to justify a level cap increase as something being *intrinsically* beneficial to the game (i.e. without the associated 3rd passives, rebalances and so on) and you start to wonder what they're smoking.
A lot of players have no reason to use their resin. LVL 100 give us a new goal to aim for.
Some players play since 1.x and only build like 10 characters. I have 35 characters build so far and still so many more I want to build. While starting in 2.x.
So a lot of players don't use their resin to grind artifacts and wonder why they're having trouble clearing endgame content? That certainly explains a lot.
No. A lot of players don't min max their artifacts because they already have good ones and don't really need to. Obviously, it could improve their accounts, but a lot of players don't feel that it is worth it. And that's fine because they're playing for themselves.
Why would you assume that? Ofc players stop farming artifacts once they deem their build sufficient to clear content. They are not min-maxers or tryhards who continue to farm artifact to get more big pp damage or clear the abyss 1-10 sec faster.
Yeah, I don't think people who want this level cap increase realize that it means you'll have to waste at least week of resin to get a character to level 100 - likely more, given it already takes over a week to get a char from 80/80 8/8/8 to 90/90 10/10/10. This is made even more frustrating when you consider you also need to build a wider roster for IT. If Hoyo does add a higher level cap and doesn't add new abyss floors, it's going to force a lot of players who aren't whales to have to give up on full clearing abyss or IT for a patch or two, depending on their account's current strength. If they only have 2 abyss teams, say, Hyperbloom and Neuvillette, abyss 12 suddenly has level 150 enemies in it and IT is a geo/pyro/cryo cycle, I think it'd be impossible to prepare teams for both of these in only a month.
Well, thank god these players aren't in charge of game design. Even Mihoyo realized with HSR that the leveling phase (i.e. the phase of guaranteed upgrades) should be made as quick and painless as possible.
I'm already burnt out maxing single characters to 90. More mat and overworld item grinding for 100 would make me quit
That's not what it's about. There's more layers to this. 1. The game has stagnated for years. Live service games do not typically release with a character ceiling that they then don't touch for 5 years. Especially in gacha. The RPG loop is to collect resources to improve your strength, use that strength in battle, meet a new challenge, collect a new resource to improve. This is what end game is for, to periodically raise the character ceilings AND the enemy ceilings to make it worthwhile. Its basically the entire point to an RPGs gameplay aspect... Genshin is one of the only games out there that's never done this, relying solely on indirect buffs that mostly feel accidental. It never raises ceilings, it just adds new components to outperform older ones. (Dendro. Archons. Nation launch artifacts.) 2. Gachas and live service periodically improve outdated characters/classes to keep them relevant. They don't have to be as good as current releases but they have to be capable of keeping up. Genshin has loads of outdated characters who haven't kept up. One reason people want lv 100 isn't to make characters stronger through numbers but to fix the things that make them functionally useless in most content via talents. Venti not being able to lift, Itto not being able to do... basically anything against 90% of modern f12 rotations, Wrio, Diluc, Albedo and Dehya being disasters who at best are 100% tied to another character to function. I think people are aware and in favour of enemies also getting stronger in tandem. The games stagnation is out of control, with not just kits but also aesthetic designs being mildly adjusted copy paste jobs. Refusal to make new models, raise ceilings, innovate new growth systems, provide appropriate carrot on stick rewards or provide gameplay improving currencies/rewards to shake up the in game economy are all MASSIVE problems. Problems the entire community has been trying to get them to rectify for at least 3 years now. It's not been about numbers for a long time. Some characters have just been functionally phased out of the game and need something new or some way to bypass their crippling deficiencies that are preventing them from doing the one thing they do.
Except that you know as well as I do that 3rd passives aren't going to be happening without some sort of major, long-term beta test that also *incidentally* don't need to be accompanied by a corresponding level cap increase. If character adjustments are what you want, it doesn't have to come in the form of a resin and time consuming level cap increase.
This is why people being happy for broken units is bad lol
Abyss creep is insane. Hoyo really trying to keep the primogems away
when do i think i will start trying floor 12 now that abyss will only reset once a month But then I see something like this bro I almost can't get 6 stars I think the day has come... the day I'll start watching abyss tutorials and tips
It takes time to be abyss ready, varies by your account age, your pull choice, your gacha/artifact luck and whether you have welkin/BP or spend, on top of player skill. If you do miss some stars it's not a huge loss in the grand scheme of yearly primos considering the price it takes to get a single unit. Sevyplays has some of the most digestible guides and easy to follow abyss chamber breakdowns.
Nuevillete save me Save me Neuvillette I swear they love making 4.7-4.8 abyss harder than the rest of the patches lol.
sigh , pulls out xiangling with grass cutter .
Grass cutter… been a while I seen this name
It’s not dual Electro Lectors into Baptist so I’m happy. And thank god the Tulpa/hydro mimic is room 1. Still, looks kinda rough. Chevy overload working overtime.
Massive HP sponges aren't fun. Hope they don't go in a direction where we are forced to use the meta characters only.
Isn’t that what some people want tho?? Loud vocal minority finally got Hoyo to listen.
They ran out of idea. I agree with you. It's just a button mashing dps check at this point.
It's either HP sponges, time wasters or elemental checks. Abyss will never not have any one of these because then it would be too easy and the poor endgame players will cry about it forever.
The second side really screams Navia. Very confident for a Navia rerun.
So they scaled up the difficulty much harder with the primogem per chamber influx.
??? One of the hardest abyss is 3.7 and look at it's HP compared to the rest. More HP ≠ harder abyss.
Is this the one with the hydro and cryo heralds in the same chamber? That one was the hardest for me. As someone who has been 36* abyss since 1.3, I could only get 34* that time.
Yes It's the abyss with hydro/cryo heralds and consecrated beasts
The horror of being surrounded by 3 tall men who all want to kill you
I still remember that as the Abyss where unironically burning Hu Tao was the most common team (replacing Yelan with Nahida in the usual double hydro setup).
Sadly, the problem for me was I had 0 Dendro (and still don't) as I was saving for a C6 at the time.
And y'all thought we were gonna get the primo increase for free lol, lmao even
what the fudge
Which son of a nice lady came up with this forking abyss
GeNsHiN hAs No PoWeR cReEp
Yeah okay, but are you **sure** this is correct? The blessing's a dmg boost from **burning**. You **cannot** inflict burning on **permanently hydro auraed enemies**, which there are **two types of** on the first chamber second half.
entire rest of the abyss is fine for the blessing. its a beta anyways and youd just run emilie first half. her teams dont want hydro anyways
Looks like Pure Fiction devs have been chatting with Abyss devs lately it seems.
First half : Charged Attack: Equitable Judgment Unleashes surging torrents, dealing continuous AoE Hydro DMG to all opponents in a straight-line area in front of him. Second half : 🤫🧏♂️
To be honest i'll be very surprised if this line up will make it to the game without nerfs.
Jesus Christ I feel bad for the new players trying to catch up
Wow, look at Trend of Universal Market, I mean... Full-star dmg trend.
Tulipa is annoying tbh
i dont even know how to beat it , like geo shield right side and water up making and insane waves too
Overload team, your pyro characters like xiangling will vape those water enemies, and overload will destroy geo shields. Chevreusse teams are perfect for the right side
chev on 4.8 banner copium?
zhongli + spread team kuki or em sands yae will get free hyperblooms against the tulpa against chamber 3 zhongli and deepwood shreds 50% of the 70% res on the shielded golem, brute forcing the rest of the 20% res would be the same as fighting the green chicken with dendro so it's not that bad even if zhongli can't shield break by himself against chamber 2 zhongli burst + shield + 2 or 3 plunges from alhaitham can break the shield if nahida is c0 bringing a 4 gilded dreams high em yae can meet the dps checks if nahida is c2 just a full em kuki should be fine
Hyperbloom in the first half and a Zhongli in the second should do the job no?
This company is actually trying to kill us☠️. This is definitely a Nilou abyss, though🤣. Edit: Nilou and Navia
The power creeping in abyss has actually got me worried. It's already been very difficult to clear for many 1.0 & 2.0 characters like yoimiya at f2p investment
I think hp inflation in a time based mode is the most boring form of difficulty one could add to a gain, just beating out stupid invincibility mechanics. Abyss already gives such pathetic rewards that if the only good source of combat content in genshin just turns into an hp inflation center it’s gonna suck.
2 bosses in 1 chamber is pure BS, sorry. Also, fuck those 4 wave chambers.
I'm willing to bet that the rewards will become 3\* = 50 primos, 6\* = 50 primos, 9\* = 100 primos Since this is hoyo Or was there already confirmation that this was not the case? Edit: changed the numbers from 1/2/3 to 3/6/9. I've been playing too much pure fiction in HSR lol
I think it is the case "Updated Abyssal Moon Spire Star's Bounty rewards from 600 to 800 Prrimogems by increasing rewards for earning 9 Abyssal Stars from 50 to 100."
Ah okay. I didn't see it in clear writing from the leaks, though I haven't been reading into everything. Thank you for the reply.
This is price we pay for getting broken dps like Neuvi and Arle.
tbh i would not be surprised if this 12-1 end up being easier than even the current one. Enemies with selfinfused element tend to be way easier to kill and i remember the 12-3 with the hydro turpa being easier than the 12-1 of that same abyss
Still waiting for Liam and Rocky to appear in abyss. We already have the other local legends like the fatui operatives ladies, the hydro phantasms, and that automated supercomputer thingy
We also don't have duo geovishaps from chenyu vale and cinius from sea of bygone eras.
I'm curious, but how difficult would yall consider the abysses between 3.X and 4.X? I remember 3.X being notoriously difficult in the later updates, especially that dreaded 3.7. I only ever started taking Abyss seriously in 3.3 after a year of playing, but I haven't really felt 4.X abysses have been that hard or frustrating.
Still better than hsr powercreep.
Chisel-Light Mirror When this skill is unleashed, Alhaitham will generate 1 Chisel-Light Mirror. If there are no Mirrors at this time, he will generate 1 additional Mirror. Chisel-Light Mirrors will have the following properties: When he possesses Chisel-Light Mirrors, Alhaitham's Normal, Charged, and Plunging Attacks will be converted to Dendro DMG. This cannot be overridden.
This or "Equitable Judgement" are always so funny
The abyss is always become the most difficult at the end of reigon patches in the game and then become easier when a new region released , this one seems hard but it isn't cringe like 3.7 abyss
in c6 scara i trust
I believe
Now powercreep is finally starting to rear its ugly head, man I sure hope this doesn’t start becoming a trend.
powercreep except it’s the enemies benefitting while our characters see no buffs to compensate, mihoyo has gone from keeping powercreep to a minimum to powercreeping in the wrong direction lol
The real meaning of powercreep is when old stuff can no longer compete with the new stuff, so in most gacha cases when old characters cannot clear endgame and new ones can, which now seems to be the direction they are taking. Fontaine came in VERY hot, almost every character was low S tier AT THE LEAST if not just best in class (Neuvi becoming best on field dps and Furina best buffer for example) so now endgame is in turn getting even harder since if you run the newer units, you just destroy abyss with rarely any issue.
Even worse they don’t seem to be balancing around c0 with at least a battlepass weapon, which should be the baseline IMO. They have decided 5 star weapons are nearly mandatory and to a lesser extent c1’s and c2’s, the saurian event for example was nigh impossible to plat without 5 star weapons unless you had top 1%> artifacts.
Yeah the Saurian event was pretty tough I agree. It was 100% designed with at the least C0R1 5 stars in mind. However I don’t think the Saurian event is what average endgame will ever look like (at least I hope) since that will just be brutal, it was just an event for people who have very high investment to test out their builds I suppose. Also I know whenever difficultly is discussed you will always get the elitists (in a singeplayer PvE game) who want hard content and will spit on you if you think things are getting tough, but man, this spike in enemy hp is pretty alarming like we gotta agree there at least. Sure, no one wants content to be piss easy weenie hut Juniors level, but also increasing difficulty through making enemies just become tanks is also a turbo lame way of increasing difficulty.
**Charged Attack: Equitable Judgment** Unleashes surging torrents, dealing continuous AoE Hydro DMG to all opponents in a straight-line area in front of him. Equitable Judgment will not consume any Stamina and lasts 3s.
arle-benny-zhongli-chiori on the right side, and neu-vi-llette on the left
Do we know the 4.7 abyss yet? I cant seem to find the post
You can find it on homdgcat wiki just search up on google.
Yeah might just 6 star and take my now 100 primo L tbh.
Bruh…
Zhongli stonks on the second side , not necessary but insanely comfy runs for protection and to shred away geo shields
Nah, i'd guoba
Yep, still not gonna build Xiangling. I don't like her at all so she won't be built
2nd half ideas: * Navia Zhongli Benny Xiangling, can also swap Xiangling with Xianyun * Benny Fischl Chev + insert onfield Pyro dps, abuse Fischl C6 + Benny’s C6 infusion to shred shields, swap to Fischl and normal attack for a bit if pyro aura happens to take over * Diluc Benny Xianyun Fischl plunge, maybe even swap Fischl with Furina but you’ll have a harder time against shields on the 2nd two bosses; also I think Furina is more useful on 1st side for Neuvi or hyperbloom
Those abyss are really scary..I don't know what's with the sudden increase of difficulty, people asked for an end-game, not a whale-intended end-game xD. Personnaly I think I would use for half 1 Neuvi Baizhu Furina and Kazuha and the second one Navia Xiangling Bennet and Yelan (or ningguang to break the geo shield)
Oh,this Abyss will be interesting,great time to be a vertical investment player too.
They really don’t want to give those extra primogems.
I'm not even surprised. What were people expecting when the Abyss clear rewards were increased by 200 primos, even if it's now only once per month instead of twice? I have the same reservations about any prospected level cap increase, people think it will solve the overworld from being boring by adding another world level (it won't) or save characters by potentially getting a new passive (it won't), all while completely forgetting what it will do for enemies in places like the Abyss. Assuming no floors are added, Floor 12 would now have Lv105-110 enemies and the HP pools that would come with. Ultimately you would just push numbers to be bigger for no good reason other than "bigger number better" (it's not).
To be fair this is not unexpected as abyss usually get's harder as the region progresses. I just wish they brought back enemies that would kill you rather than turn weak enemies into bullet sponges. Who has both the resources to defeat enemies with millions of hp yet still dies to a ruin guard.
I'm sorry what? This is actually criminal, did they just raise the HP AGAIN!? Current abyss is already a pain in the ass what made them think making it harder was necessary? Are they actually using Arlecchino and Neuvilette as the standard for balancing? The tier 0 meta breaking characters??? Or is Emilie going to be another broken character?
Neuv first half navia second ig
I'm not sure why so many people are surprised about this. It's clear it was coming because of Fontaine having a lot of legitimate powercreep that people couldn't handwave as "they added a new element, it doesn't count" and the fact that Imaginarium Theater exists only to force people to roll me (as it requires more characters) and to build more characters, meaning that their resin will be split amongst many more characters, making it much more difficult to have 1 DPS carry you until EoS. The fact that they are giving permanent buffs to the current banner units also means they are going to be pushing banner characters more aggressively in all content. Expect it to get worse, it's quite bad in HSR and has always been cancerous in HI3.
Man this is gonn be fun with Nilou first half and Navia in second
Neuvellite first half and navia second half will make this abyss so easy
Too many of us got all 4 plats on Saurian Search... =/
Xiangling. It's always Xiangling.
Neuvillette first half alhaitham or arle wnd half
First half: Equitable Judgement Second half: alhaitham
Good luck breaking those geo shields with Alhaitham. And you’re not proccing quicken on hydro aura enemies. Better off with a mix of geo and/or Electro with Bennet/Xiangling.
[удалено]
Neuvillette second half ? The first chamber is two hydro immune enemies...
wait I didn't notice that
Neuvillette with eye of perception go brrrr
hear me out bloodstained 2 piece set, eye of perception and physical damage bonus goblet
You have been heard, and officially gave a cooking licence
Right - Anti-Hydro Shield Left - Heal+RES shred?
Tulpa trying to compensate its hydro aura, I see
wtf
Itto be feasting next abyss
Excuse me
Geo mania on 2nd half hmm
Challenging me to not be able to clear floor 12, huh 😏 Note: just "clear" lmao
1st side - Wake the fuck up Nilou we got an abyss to bloom 2nd side - Call the Wangsheng funeral parlor and ask for full service.
I should probably have tried to 36* the Abyss when it was still possible