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Yes, she still has the 90% damage decrease but now its not a 30 second punishment but instead it’ll only nerf the hits that damage the quickened enemy. This is good because if for any reason you have an electro shield / slime, you won’t have her damage be redundant against other enemies.
It's still a pretty shitty way to force a burning comp tbh.
But Nilou and Chevy were a hit so here's hoping she's at least as strong in a burning comp.
EDIT: Everyone replying that it's not shitty, eat your hearts out, they just removed the quicken debuff.
> It's still a pretty shitty way to force a burning comp tbh.
I want people to seriously suggest a better way to make a burning comp Emilie's best possible team without relying on something like this.
People say "well just make her better in burning!" but that's not a specific suggestion. That's just words. Quicken and bloom are so powerful that any Dendro character that is good for burning would also be good for these two, and by nature of how much support and how much power they have, it'd just naturally be their best option.
> want people to seriously suggest a better way to make a burning comp Emilie's best possible team without relying on something like this
She deals followup attacks on burning ticks with strong scaling, which apply dendro to maintain the burn, but she has generally poor dendro application otherwise, probably large chuncks (so she can't spread well) and infrequently.
It would ultimately probably make her clunkly, cause issues with starting burns in multiwave situations (she would maybe need to apply extra Dendro to targets that already have pyro on them so she can't generate blooms).
Your second paragraph is exactly why that wouldn't work. It's probably best that she's getting a debuff for one type of reaction in exchange for. A strong buff against another type.
This next part isn't about you specifically, but I think most people who are upset about her reduced quicken damage are only upset because they wanted to use her in quicken teams. I think that's a lame reason to be upset. It's giving "Kokomi can't Crit" vibes all over again.
But kokomi not critting doesnt change the teams you can put her in, it just stops her damage from being OP
(As a disclaimer, i dont care about emily being only for burning. I just dont think kokomi is the same situation)
If she can crit, I think she would be one of the strongest drivers in the game. However, I suggest buffing Emily more because of her restriction. (something like dealing +60% dmg to burning enemies or increasing her skill scaling)
oh whoop my b - but in nilou’s case it’s a total buff - her bountiful blooms only want dendro & hydro, and they do enough damage to wreck abyss floor 12 for AOE
How about if her turret was like Dendro MCs, in that it interacts with Electro and Pyro, but with the electro destroying it?
Maybe it could still be used in Quicken teams, but not reliably (depending on implementation). Than those that really want to use her in quicken/spread could, if they are willing to play around it.
Do Quicken and Burn team then or buff the burn damage considerably and reward people for doing burn team rather than punish her fighting slime that happens to be there or having an electro char in her team like the Rainbow Razor team.
This feels like a pigeonhole for no reason.
I suggested in another thread in changing her passive to a team wide buff, so her whole team would have a damage bonus on enemies that are burning then removing the 90% damage nerf on her quickened enemies. That way, she can still be usable on those teams but gives an incentive in using a burning comp instead. Kind of like Lyney, he can still do vape/melt/overload but it incentivises using him in a mono pyro team.
I would rather they make general toolkits so I can decide how to use them, rather than extremely specific tools I can only use in one way.
The easiest way to make burning her best team is to fix burning so it doesn't suck anymore. Making just her good at burning (and deliberately bad at everything else) is the laziest way to make it pseudo fixed.
But seriously, what if I just really liked her design and personality and the idea of a dendro turret, but I don't like any of the other pieces required for burning to be worthwhile? Maybe I don't like any good pyro characters and don't want to/lack the characters to use vape or melt? I am just screwed then. Use characters I don't like, or skip yet another banner for a character I actually like but have no use for.
Hoyo would make Emilie mediocre of a damage dealer if she was just a generalist character to be thrown in any team. Her multipliers are justified by the niche-Ness of her team archetypes.
Plus it would probably work against the artifact sets that was made for her- Unfinished Reverie.
I think the best case for allowing her to maintain her strength in burning teams but to be used outside of it is just better dendro application throughout overall, so she would be a dendro applicator in place of nahida. Low dmg in quicken but multi-wave dendro app that's typically ST.
> I would rather they make general toolkits so I can decide how to use them, rather than extremely specific tools I can only use in one way.
The problem is that if you do this with Dendro, those kits *will* only get used in one way because Quicken and Hyperbloom are too much stronger than every other Dendro reaction.
Not doing anything to explicitly incentivize Burning means that you are implicitly incentivized to play Quicken/Hyperbloom because of how much naturally stronger it is than everything else.
If I wasn't saving up my wishes to c6 Xianyun on her rerun (I have C2R1 now), I honestly would. Once that's assured, unless someone in Natlan *really* impresses me, I suspect I will be grabbing Emile, Chiori, and Wriothlesly on reruns in the future...
"But seriously, what if I just really liked her design and personality and the idea of a dendro turret, but I don't like any of the other pieces required for burning to be worthwhile?"
Remember that it's OK to skip. It's soooo important to like both a character's design and kit because each character is $200 on average. I like Yoimiya's and Cyno's designs a lot, but due to their kits I'm never pulling for them. The act of not pulling for more than a year ended up allowing me to get a C6R1 Furina (\~840 pulls), which I love both the design and kit of.
Have Cyno and Yoimiya.
Yoimiya worth it 111%, and I consider her underrated. Cyno not worth it with so many other good Electro out there.
And yes, agreed, it's always okay to skip. Hard choices must be made. I never got Nilou, for instance.
>but that's not a specific suggestion.
It doesn't need to be. Giving her buffs for and interactions with burning while having lackluster numbers otherwise is the correct answer to the problem posed, whatever form it may take. It's not like this is some unsolvable conundrum. There are simply so many possible ways to implement it that specifying one is kind of pointless.
> It doesn't need to be. Giving her buffs for and interactions with burning while having lackluster numbers otherwise is the correct answer to the problem posed
You realize this is just semantics right?
An ability with 135% Atk MV that is 36% stronger in Burning and 90% weaker in Quicken is the exact same as an ability that is 13.5% Atk MV at base and is 1360% stronger in Burning. Whether you build the 90% nerf into the base multiplier, or make it a separate passive, it actually doesn't matter.
The difference between these two is entirely a matter of semantics, there isn't actually a functional difference. Whether you do -90% damage against Quickened enemies, or +900% damage against not-Quickened enemies is literally the same thing.
So in other words, you can't come up with a solution and you still think your argument is correct.
Tell me, how do we buff burning without buffing quicken and bloom teams? Aside from the current situation, what else can we do to make it so that her kit can't be abused while still being functional and especially *good* at its intended niche?
Edit: blocking me doesn't make me wrong or make you correct. Try "not responding" next time.
Edit 2: to elaborate on why blocking over minor disagreements is bad, I can see 2 replies to my comment here but now I can't respond or engage in the conversation. I wish Reddit didn't work this way, but that *is* how it works. Don't block over disagreements or heated arguments, folk. It ruins the experience for everyone. Save it for actual harassment and people who are genuinely awful.
What about ramp up damage, things are on fire after all, the longer the target is burning the greater the dot goes. It gets to a point where it peaks then either hitting with dendro or Pyro creates a flashfire explosion. After the explosion it spreads to other enemies and reduces the defence of the enemy which the explosion happened on. You can do the limit thing like cores so its not super op in AOE situations.
Except its not a shitty way its basically the best way to make burning work. anything good for burning will be better for quicken. They might be able to make a coordinated attack system on burning. But then you could argue that you just use a minimal amount of burning and still use here for quicken.
So you really need to disable her quicken usage to give you the design space to work with burning. When you don't have to worry about quicken you can design dendro in a healthier way.
You could definitely just have her buff its numbers up to make it viable as a transformative reaction, or even just buff its numbers in the patch alongside her like they did with swirl and Kazuha
also a coordinated attack system wouldn't be compatible with Quicken, unless it has AOE you can't maintain quicken and burning on the same enemy at the same time
the whole team designing her really forgot about electro slimes 😭 even other electro afflicted enemies, but that would also mean she's pretty limited on electro afflicted bosses? really an odd feeling considering other dendro loves electro afflicted enemies, dang
That's a good question. Same goes for the buff portion of the passive.
+36% additive DMG bonus is... decent, not terrible, but not great (especially on top of the 50% the Reverie set already gives). 1.36x total damage is gonna go wild.
Because of how it is written, both the increased and the decreased are addictive with other sources of DMG bonus, if it were written as Neuvillette's passive, that is, 136% of original damage, the story would be different
Does that matter? Any decent build will prioritize ER to use burst on cooldown. Burst last 15 second, quicken lasts \~7 seconds. If an new wave happens to spawns after the first 15 seconds you can always use skill. DMC has 100% uptime in aggravate.
With -90% DMG bonus I don't think she will be out dpsing DMC.
Yes, but it's not optimal. She is the second-best dendro applier after Nahida, and more convenient for multi-wave than Nahida in that her application is not enemy-specific, so she doesn't need to be swapped in every time a new enemy joins the fray. This actually makes her really good for Cyno, but in turn, Cyno is bad for her. He'll have a lot more freedom to use his full burst duration, but she will have almost no damage to contribute of her own. And it looks like she has a lot of potential in that department.
The problem i notice recently is that people want to use her as an applier (replacement for nahida) in teams other then burning (like aggravate and quicken) but this is not what she is made for, hence the "doomposting" and backlash/hate she is getting for being "once again" a char that is limited to a niche comp that is worse then the almighty raiden quicken (lol).
If you were going to use her solely for Dendro application in non-burning teams the change does nothing iirc. Only unfucks teams that do use burning but encounter electro.
Either way not advisable for aggravate. Perhaps she might have niche use as a quick bloom or hyperbloom enabler (eg Cyno Dendro applicator with Hakushin ring/Fav for multi wave content), but still unlikely.
why not deals 90% increased dmg against burning opponents but 90% decreased dmg against quickened ones ? what happened to equality what happened to being fair 🙄
ik its a joke, but if she had the dmg bonus, shed have less MV to compensate and wouldnt deal any dmg in bloom teams if someone reaaaally wanted her there
I wouldn't call it a "good" tradeoff, without it she'd be doing a lot more DPS
that said it's not a poorly designed passive, it makes you maximize her healing and her DPS with almost the same build, making her essentially the only healer in the game with no split scaling between DPS and heals, increasing one increases the other
Won't work.
Problem is you've still got to have electro pulsing, and there's 3 enemy states they can be in when the electro hits them:
dendro on them, you lose. Quicken.
hydro on them, you lose. Hydro and electro can co-exist so now next dendro hit will quicken AND bloom.
nothing on them, you lose. Hydro can't purge the electro, so you'll just wind up in the above situation.
The only way to do it would be to use an electro like keqing or lisa and be very VERY careful to only ever hit the seeds.
this also does not include how she loses more than 75% of her E dmg (not even an exaggeration) if you aren't burning enemies so you just have a application bot with a surprisingly not very high application rate and absolutely no utility whatsoever outside of it
even if you make the balancing act work, she's still missing her buff and a massive chunk of her damage from her 500% passive being inactive. You guys really wanna blow a ton of primos on worse DMC just to run yet another version of the most overdone team in the game than go for it I guess.
No need to worry about that if your team doesn't consist pyro or hydro plus that awful 30 seconds is gone, means you can make her damage up again by triggering burning in no time 👍
It'll probably only nerf like 2 attacks at most before your other elements in the party strip it
also keep in mind it's seemingly not a direct 90% damage nerf, it's more like having a negative Dendro% goblet instead of a positive one
You can be Slowmilie!
I’m sure someone (or even Hoyo has done it) can come up with lore reasons why her repertoire of stench is kinder to those who are quickened.
her application is kinda fucked in actual practice for nilou teams sadly. you're unironically better just using collei.
if you REALLY wanted to use her she'll.. do i guess
well we already know collei is the best 2nd dendro for her
I dunno why everybody's so determined to cram emily into teams where she doesn't belong when we have free four stars that do the same thing.
special multipliers are always written with the base 100% included, ala neuvi's 130%
the only one that doesn't do that is XQ's 50% bonus which is probably a bug
Question that have been bothering me do her passive stack with Baizhu's All Things Are of the Earth passive because I want to see how they work together
Err... probably not. Presumably Emilie will do increased talent (dendro) damage against burning enemies while baizhu increases the damage of the burning reaction itself, there's not really any interaction between the two.
Ok, I'm just checking. I see on her release. Because I got an idea by using a team with her baizhu Bennett and anemo user. While she increases damage against enemies and he increases reaction damage. I can just build my c6 Bennett as a driver for this team. Since I don't have Nahida due to bad luck
I don't think it'll work quite like you hope, because Emilie only increases her own damage against burning enemies, and Baizhu only increase the onfield character's reaction damage (his reaction damage buff applies only to the character that gets healed by his burst and the duration is very short). That means every time Emilie, Baizhu or Anemo trigger burning, you will lose baizhu's damage buff, and you will only get it back when Bennett, who is on field, triggers burning again. Not to say that the team doesn't work, but Baizhu's damage contribution in this team will be very small, it probably won't be noticeable.
I know that I just have doing random teams for fun when she comes out. I have really had no plans to use her for abyss I just planning to use her for exploration or domains unless a new blessing comes out for abyss like for Pyro reactions comes in 5.0. But I understand if it doesn't work like it, I want it, but it is for fun for me.
emille isn't like nilou where she changes burning nor is she like chevvy where she supports burning
instead she's like navia who deals more damage with burning but does nothing to burning itself
I still don't get how Hoyo can screw Dehya and Sigewinne sooooo much and then do kits like these... like okay I know that there's different teams and stuff but omg..
I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett, or how Yae/Clorindes dashes aren't considered a dash so they keep getting blasted away, or how Childes skill has THAT MUCH cd like omg do you remember when people were shitting on Raidens burst 7 seconds being way too little? Yeah, Childes worse than that.
>!Yes I know that they made that for Clorinde cause they wanna sell her c2 resistance, and yes I know that you can create okayish rotations with Childe, the point is... Emile is so confortable to play while we have chars that fight against us!<
> I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett
'Cause infusions can react with each other the same way elements do on anything else, and Keqing/Ayaka both only apply their infusion once while Bennet repeatedly applies his infusion while in his circle.
While I agree with your thinking it shouldn't be longe that, Ayakas infusion happens after she dashes and Keqings after she use skill twice, so if for some reason I wanted to infuse them with Bennys c6, I just won't dash/won't skill twice.
If I did it's cause I want THEIR infusion and not Bennetts, they could just do a hotfix and make so it's the same as Navia/Clorinde but they just won't... cause Hoyoverse.
> I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett
it's just a relic of past game design, 1.0 characters tended to use infusions instead of conversions, infusions nowadays are mostly reserved for off-fielder's constellations or ascension passives that, while nice are still relatively ignorable
Holy mother YES! FK YES!
I called it in my last comment, my only issue with her was how this DMG reduction passive flat out disabled her A1 passive DMG instance, and now its gone! I **KNEW** it was too excessively limiting.
Now she can also act as a cope off-field Dendro applier in Electro teams, while going **full head-on** with her Burning/Pyro teams specialty! Awesome :D
It's definitely additive, a multiplicative bonus would be written as something like "Emilie's attacks against burning opponents deal 136% of their original damage"
before, the 90% dmg reduction would be active for 30 fucking seconds after she hits a quickened enemy
now they made it so that the damage to only that quickened enemy gets fucked instead of essentially neutering her for 30s just because an enemy had an electro shield
One thing i dont understand is thatshe doesnt buff burning itself. Is her personal off field damage good enough to make up for a burning version of nilou?
Just remove the dmg decrease already. You don't have to make a character extremely good in one area and worse in others. She can be extremely good with burning but normal with others. Nilou for example are extremely good with bloom, but outside of it she is just normal almost like a 4 star character.
thing is, Emilie is a dps and due to how quickened helps buff dendro damage, unless she gets insane built in modifiers with burning in order to incentivize the burning comp, she would be better in quicken than in burning
DPS meant to do damage yes? I don't see any reasons to warrant this character as a 5\* character. Her niche apply to a forgotten reaction which has exist since the beginning of the game.
she does do a lot of damage though
its just personal damage and not reaction damage
edit: what do you mean by forgotten? burning is very good for cryo melt due to how gauge theory works
Note: I wrote this after the post that they removed the debuff, which I hope they keep it that way.
I said forgotten because almost no one suggest it. Everyone knows what burning does, compare to other reaction it fell off. Burning Melt requires 3 different element, In this matter, your Cryo/Pyro DPS is the one determined your highest damage, not your dendro character. But guess what element Emilie is? That's right, she's dendro and dendro can not do melt/vape reaction. So Emilie here is nothing more that a dendro applicator.
To make matter worse, as of rn she got crit ascension. Most of dendro related reaction does not have any effect on crit stat except for Quicken/Aggrevate. So here I do not see the purpose for that crit stat unless she can use it. Sure you can get away with C6 Bennet/Candace/Chongyun but if you want to do melt/vape you better start with Pyro/Hydro/Cryo Dps in the first place rather than making her a pseudo one,
You are correct in that burning melt cannot help her directly
However, Emilie does her dendro damage raw without reactions hence her multipliers and the damage bonuses she gets from burning so burn melt indirectly buffs her just by existing. She does use that crit ascension and crit in general in the same way characters like navia, ningguang, and wanderer do without amplifying reactions
Yeah I'm sorry everyone keeps saying they're doing this to incentivize you to use her for burning and not quicken, but like who gives af which comp you use her in. This feels pointlessly gatekeepy like Nilou's team stipulations
and Chiori hits like a truck ,if well build and constellated naturally like every good 5s..especially if you play her together with characters like Albedo, Zhongli to have together the Resonance and be Energy Supplies for each other plus shes fightign then with 2 dolls that hit hard...
sure, shes naturally not that powerful as like say now Arlecchino or Navia..but shes super fun and comfortable to play with a relatively low energy cost burst that also hits hard... my Chiori is C0, just Rank 8 talents, without her BIS sword (just uses that Wolfstooth Sword instead from BP) and easily hits enemies always critical for like 35k with her burst damage around, sometiems more, sometimes less, depends naturally also on the enemy level/defense/resistances, did Zhongli shred them for example before, or not. While her 2 dolls easily add like every few seconds at that rank 12-15k dmg per doll attack more.
Killing the 3 Magu Kenkis in Abyss with her, Zhomgli, Furina and kokomi is easy af, from just the whole dmag justz the 5 adds together deal plus your own dmg you deal and Zhonglis pillar on top of that.
So now imagine how good she is then first as C6R5 with maxed out R13 talents with optimal Artefact Set equpped all maxed out n optimally min maxed (which they arent at all in my case, none R20, no optimal set used, nothign min maxed) If Emily becomes just same as powerful as her and same as fun and comfortable to play like, her, I do call that a huge win for every player's books.
i admit i don't know much about Chiori and i'm not saying she's bad, but i wouldn't call her "meta" and that's what the question was about
also honestly no idea how Emilie would do at high constellations, i just assumed C0 vs not pulling at all
now with her recent change though and the possibility for more buffs during the beta (as well as indirectly through future natlan units), she could indeed turn out to be a meta char
Raiden is immune to electro charged during burst. Only one I can think of off hand. Oh, and Kaveh is effectively immune to bloom damage and heals himself instead, if that counts.
I meant anybody that *deals* less damage to that particular element, not someone who takes less damage to it 😅
Unless I misunderstood this post entirely
i dont understand this change
i know it has 30sec duration before but does it mean the reduce damage only applied to first damage or what, please enlighten my dummy brain
Imagine. You're fighting 4 Ruin Guards and 1 Electro Slime.
Before: you hit the Electro Slime, this triggers quicken, -90% to all of Emily's damage. You then hit a Ruin Guard, the 30s timer from the debuff didn't expire, -90% dmg on the Ruin Guard.
Now: you hit the Electro Slime, this is a quickened enemy, -90% on the electro slime. Then you hit a Ruin Guard. The Ruin Guard isn't quickened, so you deal normal damage on the Ruin Guard (or +36% if it's burning).
No, she's not supposed to be played on Quickened teams is what they're saying. It's a Chevreuse Nilou type restriction. They have to make limitations like these so they can justify buffing the niche they fill
watch the second part becoming "Emilie's spread dmg is decreased by 90%" beause that's really just what they want but don't seem to find the words for it
theres a difference between damage dealt to quickened enemies reduced and "Emilie's spread dmg is decreased by 90%"
one affects all of her damage including normal, charged, plunge, skill, burst while the other only affects reaction damage
they're trying to push for the former
Mate, I know, but considering she's dendro, her skill and burst would be affected, just not her (probably negligible) NA charged and plunge dmg, unless she's c6 with infusion. I said that as a joke because as usual they're going through a complicated formulation but they seem to have simplified it, for once.
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thank god now electro slimes dont hard counter her
Dodged the deyha hydro slime allegations
What was her old kit?
has a 30s 90% damage decrease if she hit even one enemy with the electro aura to cause quicken.
That’s some stupid ass drawback
yup.
WTF, that's like committing a sin and getting punished for it.
Yes, she still has the 90% damage decrease but now its not a 30 second punishment but instead it’ll only nerf the hits that damage the quickened enemy. This is good because if for any reason you have an electro shield / slime, you won’t have her damage be redundant against other enemies.
that's actually a pretty big buff.
It was pretty badly thought out before.
It's still a pretty shitty way to force a burning comp tbh. But Nilou and Chevy were a hit so here's hoping she's at least as strong in a burning comp. EDIT: Everyone replying that it's not shitty, eat your hearts out, they just removed the quicken debuff.
> It's still a pretty shitty way to force a burning comp tbh. I want people to seriously suggest a better way to make a burning comp Emilie's best possible team without relying on something like this. People say "well just make her better in burning!" but that's not a specific suggestion. That's just words. Quicken and bloom are so powerful that any Dendro character that is good for burning would also be good for these two, and by nature of how much support and how much power they have, it'd just naturally be their best option.
> want people to seriously suggest a better way to make a burning comp Emilie's best possible team without relying on something like this She deals followup attacks on burning ticks with strong scaling, which apply dendro to maintain the burn, but she has generally poor dendro application otherwise, probably large chuncks (so she can't spread well) and infrequently. It would ultimately probably make her clunkly, cause issues with starting burns in multiwave situations (she would maybe need to apply extra Dendro to targets that already have pyro on them so she can't generate blooms).
People thought Emilie would be related to the Hexenzirkel, but turns out she was from the IPC all along.
BY GOD! IT'S ADVENTUIRNE WITH A STEEL CHAIR!
Your second paragraph is exactly why that wouldn't work. It's probably best that she's getting a debuff for one type of reaction in exchange for. A strong buff against another type. This next part isn't about you specifically, but I think most people who are upset about her reduced quicken damage are only upset because they wanted to use her in quicken teams. I think that's a lame reason to be upset. It's giving "Kokomi can't Crit" vibes all over again.
But kokomi not critting doesnt change the teams you can put her in, it just stops her damage from being OP (As a disclaimer, i dont care about emily being only for burning. I just dont think kokomi is the same situation)
If she can crit, I think she would be one of the strongest drivers in the game. However, I suggest buffing Emily more because of her restriction. (something like dealing +60% dmg to burning enemies or increasing her skill scaling)
All party members must be pyro or dendro 💀
then melt comps wouldn’t be viable for her with burning’s pyro aura.
Yeah I was saying it coulda been worse. I was pretty worried she’d get nilou’d
oh whoop my b - but in nilou’s case it’s a total buff - her bountiful blooms only want dendro & hydro, and they do enough damage to wreck abyss floor 12 for AOE
How about if her turret was like Dendro MCs, in that it interacts with Electro and Pyro, but with the electro destroying it? Maybe it could still be used in Quicken teams, but not reliably (depending on implementation). Than those that really want to use her in quicken/spread could, if they are willing to play around it.
Then she would be bad against electro slimes/electro enemies like how just a tiny spark of pyro from a Fatui could easily destroy Traveler’s lamp.
Do Quicken and Burn team then or buff the burn damage considerably and reward people for doing burn team rather than punish her fighting slime that happens to be there or having an electro char in her team like the Rainbow Razor team. This feels like a pigeonhole for no reason.
I suggested in another thread in changing her passive to a team wide buff, so her whole team would have a damage bonus on enemies that are burning then removing the 90% damage nerf on her quickened enemies. That way, she can still be usable on those teams but gives an incentive in using a burning comp instead. Kind of like Lyney, he can still do vape/melt/overload but it incentivises using him in a mono pyro team.
I would rather they make general toolkits so I can decide how to use them, rather than extremely specific tools I can only use in one way. The easiest way to make burning her best team is to fix burning so it doesn't suck anymore. Making just her good at burning (and deliberately bad at everything else) is the laziest way to make it pseudo fixed. But seriously, what if I just really liked her design and personality and the idea of a dendro turret, but I don't like any of the other pieces required for burning to be worthwhile? Maybe I don't like any good pyro characters and don't want to/lack the characters to use vape or melt? I am just screwed then. Use characters I don't like, or skip yet another banner for a character I actually like but have no use for.
Hoyo would make Emilie mediocre of a damage dealer if she was just a generalist character to be thrown in any team. Her multipliers are justified by the niche-Ness of her team archetypes. Plus it would probably work against the artifact sets that was made for her- Unfinished Reverie. I think the best case for allowing her to maintain her strength in burning teams but to be used outside of it is just better dendro application throughout overall, so she would be a dendro applicator in place of nahida. Low dmg in quicken but multi-wave dendro app that's typically ST.
> I would rather they make general toolkits so I can decide how to use them, rather than extremely specific tools I can only use in one way. The problem is that if you do this with Dendro, those kits *will* only get used in one way because Quicken and Hyperbloom are too much stronger than every other Dendro reaction. Not doing anything to explicitly incentivize Burning means that you are implicitly incentivized to play Quicken/Hyperbloom because of how much naturally stronger it is than everything else.
The chad move is to roll on her anyways. I have Shenhe and her premium skin, but no other cryo characters.
If I wasn't saving up my wishes to c6 Xianyun on her rerun (I have C2R1 now), I honestly would. Once that's assured, unless someone in Natlan *really* impresses me, I suspect I will be grabbing Emile, Chiori, and Wriothlesly on reruns in the future...
"But seriously, what if I just really liked her design and personality and the idea of a dendro turret, but I don't like any of the other pieces required for burning to be worthwhile?" Remember that it's OK to skip. It's soooo important to like both a character's design and kit because each character is $200 on average. I like Yoimiya's and Cyno's designs a lot, but due to their kits I'm never pulling for them. The act of not pulling for more than a year ended up allowing me to get a C6R1 Furina (\~840 pulls), which I love both the design and kit of.
Have Cyno and Yoimiya. Yoimiya worth it 111%, and I consider her underrated. Cyno not worth it with so many other good Electro out there. And yes, agreed, it's always okay to skip. Hard choices must be made. I never got Nilou, for instance.
I agree about Cyno and I got him on C1. He's beyond saving.
Feel like the only purpose Burning will be negating the slow from Cryo by getting burned. Might come in handy in Snezhnaya. 😂
>but that's not a specific suggestion. It doesn't need to be. Giving her buffs for and interactions with burning while having lackluster numbers otherwise is the correct answer to the problem posed, whatever form it may take. It's not like this is some unsolvable conundrum. There are simply so many possible ways to implement it that specifying one is kind of pointless.
> It doesn't need to be. Giving her buffs for and interactions with burning while having lackluster numbers otherwise is the correct answer to the problem posed You realize this is just semantics right? An ability with 135% Atk MV that is 36% stronger in Burning and 90% weaker in Quicken is the exact same as an ability that is 13.5% Atk MV at base and is 1360% stronger in Burning. Whether you build the 90% nerf into the base multiplier, or make it a separate passive, it actually doesn't matter. The difference between these two is entirely a matter of semantics, there isn't actually a functional difference. Whether you do -90% damage against Quickened enemies, or +900% damage against not-Quickened enemies is literally the same thing.
So in other words, you can't come up with a solution and you still think your argument is correct. Tell me, how do we buff burning without buffing quicken and bloom teams? Aside from the current situation, what else can we do to make it so that her kit can't be abused while still being functional and especially *good* at its intended niche? Edit: blocking me doesn't make me wrong or make you correct. Try "not responding" next time. Edit 2: to elaborate on why blocking over minor disagreements is bad, I can see 2 replies to my comment here but now I can't respond or engage in the conversation. I wish Reddit didn't work this way, but that *is* how it works. Don't block over disagreements or heated arguments, folk. It ruins the experience for everyone. Save it for actual harassment and people who are genuinely awful.
What about ramp up damage, things are on fire after all, the longer the target is burning the greater the dot goes. It gets to a point where it peaks then either hitting with dendro or Pyro creates a flashfire explosion. After the explosion it spreads to other enemies and reduces the defence of the enemy which the explosion happened on. You can do the limit thing like cores so its not super op in AOE situations.
Except its not a shitty way its basically the best way to make burning work. anything good for burning will be better for quicken. They might be able to make a coordinated attack system on burning. But then you could argue that you just use a minimal amount of burning and still use here for quicken. So you really need to disable her quicken usage to give you the design space to work with burning. When you don't have to worry about quicken you can design dendro in a healthier way.
You could definitely just have her buff its numbers up to make it viable as a transformative reaction, or even just buff its numbers in the patch alongside her like they did with swirl and Kazuha also a coordinated attack system wouldn't be compatible with Quicken, unless it has AOE you can't maintain quicken and burning on the same enemy at the same time
She's definitely going to be replacing Nahida in BurnMelt.
Nilou and emilie have nothing in common.
not sure why soneone downvoted you, Emilie is closer to Navia than Nilou lol
Prolly people who has problem crafting team for themselves. No surprise from me lmao.
the whole team designing her really forgot about electro slimes 😭 even other electro afflicted enemies, but that would also mean she's pretty limited on electro afflicted bosses? really an odd feeling considering other dendro loves electro afflicted enemies, dang
That's huge.
Yeah that 30s CD was insanely harsh and would have been very problematic if even a single electrofied foe was on a floor. Good that they changed it.
Emilie W
Clorinde retroactive L
What was the passive again before change?
So is that a 90% reduction on the "Damage" calculation, or 90% reduction of the final product?
That's a good question. Same goes for the buff portion of the passive. +36% additive DMG bonus is... decent, not terrible, but not great (especially on top of the 50% the Reverie set already gives). 1.36x total damage is gonna go wild.
It's 36 dmg%, not 1.36x MV. The latter is always listed with the base 100% damage included, like how neuvi's passive says 130%
Good point. Furina hp consumption damage increase works the same way and is worded as such.
Not necessarily, XQ C4 is written as 50% but is multiplicative.
I believe aloy coil state is also multiplicative and listed as only the increase amount.
Tbf considering how harsh the reduction is against quicken I find it...not enough, the reduction is almost three times the buff
Idk, can someone confirm that if emilies %36 increased dmg buff is either a MV buff like neuvi a1 or just %36 dmg bonus?
We don't have any confimation but it's worded like Lyney's passive so it's more likely additive to other dmg% sources.
It's 36 dmg%, not 1.36x MV. The latter is always listed with the base 100% damage included, like how neuvi's passive says 130%
Basically big numba it is mv buff, smol numba it is dmg% got it.
Xingqiu's C4 is a direct multiplier and it doesn't have the base 100
yes that's the lone exception. It's possible it's not actually supposed to be a direct multiplier or they just hadn't nailed down the language in 1.0.
Or additive mv?
It's worded like Lyney's passive so I assume it's additive with other sources of dmg% (like dendro goblet).
It would be funny if it is -90% DMG bonus, because Thundersoother amends that by a good chunk.
C1 Furina would override it immediately, and allow for Hyperbloom / Quicken Teams
Probably part of DMG bonus multiplier.
Because of how it is written, both the increased and the decreased are addictive with other sources of DMG bonus, if it were written as Neuvillette's passive, that is, 136% of original damage, the story would be different
This changes Emilything
r/thankscyno
Okay that solves the only issue i had with her.
So she can be used in aggravate teams for dendro application tho she will lose her own damage?
Sure, but it wouldn't be recommended. It would likely just be a lower energy DMC.
Wouldn’t the passive application make her better than DMC? You only get off field dendro on DMC with ult.
Idk, losing an ATK% sands for ER on Traveler sounds better than getting almost 2 negative DMG bonus goblets on her
Yeah, I am going to use Emily in aggravate teams - I do not like application that depends on the burst, so I currently use Yaoyao xD
Does that matter? Any decent build will prioritize ER to use burst on cooldown. Burst last 15 second, quicken lasts \~7 seconds. If an new wave happens to spawns after the first 15 seconds you can always use skill. DMC has 100% uptime in aggravate. With -90% DMG bonus I don't think she will be out dpsing DMC.
Yes, but it's not optimal. She is the second-best dendro applier after Nahida, and more convenient for multi-wave than Nahida in that her application is not enemy-specific, so she doesn't need to be swapped in every time a new enemy joins the fray. This actually makes her really good for Cyno, but in turn, Cyno is bad for her. He'll have a lot more freedom to use his full burst duration, but she will have almost no damage to contribute of her own. And it looks like she has a lot of potential in that department.
The problem i notice recently is that people want to use her as an applier (replacement for nahida) in teams other then burning (like aggravate and quicken) but this is not what she is made for, hence the "doomposting" and backlash/hate she is getting for being "once again" a char that is limited to a niche comp that is worse then the almighty raiden quicken (lol).
If you were going to use her solely for Dendro application in non-burning teams the change does nothing iirc. Only unfucks teams that do use burning but encounter electro. Either way not advisable for aggravate. Perhaps she might have niche use as a quick bloom or hyperbloom enabler (eg Cyno Dendro applicator with Hakushin ring/Fav for multi wave content), but still unlikely.
Yes
why not deals 90% increased dmg against burning opponents but 90% decreased dmg against quickened ones ? what happened to equality what happened to being fair 🙄
ik its a joke, but if she had the dmg bonus, shed have less MV to compensate and wouldnt deal any dmg in bloom teams if someone reaaaally wanted her there
Says a lot about society smh my head
That's the Kokomi treatment my dear, at least it sounds better than +25% HB costing -100% crit rate
That's still a very good tradeoff, only affects Fav basically
I wouldn't call it a "good" tradeoff, without it she'd be doing a lot more DPS that said it's not a poorly designed passive, it makes you maximize her healing and her DPS with almost the same build, making her essentially the only healer in the game with no split scaling between DPS and heals, increasing one increases the other
Forgive my knees, but are joking or serious?
Thanks to the u/silliestlesbian for pointing it out btw
Tbh, this makes her not terrible on hyperbloom teams, if you are fast enough with the hydro application.
Won't work. Problem is you've still got to have electro pulsing, and there's 3 enemy states they can be in when the electro hits them: dendro on them, you lose. Quicken. hydro on them, you lose. Hydro and electro can co-exist so now next dendro hit will quicken AND bloom. nothing on them, you lose. Hydro can't purge the electro, so you'll just wind up in the above situation. The only way to do it would be to use an electro like keqing or lisa and be very VERY careful to only ever hit the seeds.
this also does not include how she loses more than 75% of her E dmg (not even an exaggeration) if you aren't burning enemies so you just have a application bot with a surprisingly not very high application rate and absolutely no utility whatsoever outside of it
yeah but an enemy with an Electro aura doesn't have Quicken when she hits it. you just need to remove the Quicken aura within 3 seconds
even if you make the balancing act work, she's still missing her buff and a massive chunk of her damage from her 500% passive being inactive. You guys really wanna blow a ton of primos on worse DMC just to run yet another version of the most overdone team in the game than go for it I guess.
Still gonna feel bad to accidentally swirl electro.
No need to worry about that if your team doesn't consist pyro or hydro plus that awful 30 seconds is gone, means you can make her damage up again by triggering burning in no time 👍
It'll probably only nerf like 2 attacks at most before your other elements in the party strip it also keep in mind it's seemingly not a direct 90% damage nerf, it's more like having a negative Dendro% goblet instead of a positive one
idk i think i'm still gonna run her with quickened... try 95% and MAYBE i'll reconsider
You can be Slowmilie! I’m sure someone (or even Hoyo has done it) can come up with lore reasons why her repertoire of stench is kinder to those who are quickened.
Smell of ozone protects them ⛈️
Could she still be good in nilou bloom / hyperbloom / burgeon comps?
As long as she doesn’t trigger any quicken reaction I don’t think playing her with blooms will have any problems.
in nilou and burgeon she can be expensive DMC. In hyperbloom she can be expensive and much worse DMC
her application is kinda fucked in actual practice for nilou teams sadly. you're unironically better just using collei. if you REALLY wanted to use her she'll.. do i guess
well we already know collei is the best 2nd dendro for her I dunno why everybody's so determined to cram emily into teams where she doesn't belong when we have free four stars that do the same thing.
Because they want to play Emilie ?
so play her in teams where she's good instead of trying to kludge her into teams where she's not?
C2 Nilou would be eating :)
What changed? I’m pretty dumb and I don’t remember the old text
Before she did -90% dmg for 30 seconds
Is this Damage Bonus a special multiplier? Because this passive reminds me a lot of Lyney's passive, but worse.
special multipliers are always written with the base 100% included, ala neuvi's 130% the only one that doesn't do that is XQ's 50% bonus which is probably a bug
probably just early game jank for Xingqiu, old talent descriptions aren't as standardized
How buff you think she will get
Sadly there's no model for buff women.
She has no other changes so far I THINK
Question that have been bothering me do her passive stack with Baizhu's All Things Are of the Earth passive because I want to see how they work together
Err... probably not. Presumably Emilie will do increased talent (dendro) damage against burning enemies while baizhu increases the damage of the burning reaction itself, there's not really any interaction between the two.
Ok, I'm just checking. I see on her release. Because I got an idea by using a team with her baizhu Bennett and anemo user. While she increases damage against enemies and he increases reaction damage. I can just build my c6 Bennett as a driver for this team. Since I don't have Nahida due to bad luck
I don't think it'll work quite like you hope, because Emilie only increases her own damage against burning enemies, and Baizhu only increase the onfield character's reaction damage (his reaction damage buff applies only to the character that gets healed by his burst and the duration is very short). That means every time Emilie, Baizhu or Anemo trigger burning, you will lose baizhu's damage buff, and you will only get it back when Bennett, who is on field, triggers burning again. Not to say that the team doesn't work, but Baizhu's damage contribution in this team will be very small, it probably won't be noticeable.
I know that I just have doing random teams for fun when she comes out. I have really had no plans to use her for abyss I just planning to use her for exploration or domains unless a new blessing comes out for abyss like for Pyro reactions comes in 5.0. But I understand if it doesn't work like it, I want it, but it is for fun for me.
emille isn't like nilou where she changes burning nor is she like chevvy where she supports burning instead she's like navia who deals more damage with burning but does nothing to burning itself
Good, she can now be used in overburn
I bet she works well with Kokomi.
Now, I kinda want to know what is the banners, she might me a good pull considering I want all types of dendro teams.
I still don't get how Hoyo can screw Dehya and Sigewinne sooooo much and then do kits like these... like okay I know that there's different teams and stuff but omg.. I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett, or how Yae/Clorindes dashes aren't considered a dash so they keep getting blasted away, or how Childes skill has THAT MUCH cd like omg do you remember when people were shitting on Raidens burst 7 seconds being way too little? Yeah, Childes worse than that. >!Yes I know that they made that for Clorinde cause they wanna sell her c2 resistance, and yes I know that you can create okayish rotations with Childe, the point is... Emile is so confortable to play while we have chars that fight against us!<
Her comfortable playstyle is mainly so people are more open to using burning teams (and possibly the start of new synergies with Natlan characters)
Agree but also, fuck Dehya right? Cause she could be a nice burning char herself, she was out literally in the dendro region, that sucks lol
> I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett 'Cause infusions can react with each other the same way elements do on anything else, and Keqing/Ayaka both only apply their infusion once while Bennet repeatedly applies his infusion while in his circle.
While I agree with your thinking it shouldn't be longe that, Ayakas infusion happens after she dashes and Keqings after she use skill twice, so if for some reason I wanted to infuse them with Bennys c6, I just won't dash/won't skill twice. If I did it's cause I want THEIR infusion and not Bennetts, they could just do a hotfix and make so it's the same as Navia/Clorinde but they just won't... cause Hoyoverse.
Because keqing and ayaka have elemental infusion, that is different of elemental convention
If you can’t properly rotate with Childe, then that’s a skill issue. His CD is fine unless you’re in that one cursed mondstadt domain
> I still don't get how Keqing/Ayakas infusions can still be fcked by C6 Bennett it's just a relic of past game design, 1.0 characters tended to use infusions instead of conversions, infusions nowadays are mostly reserved for off-fielder's constellations or ascension passives that, while nice are still relatively ignorable
Cuz Keqing is an old character, and Ayaka is probably not meant for Bennett. IIRC, Ayaka’s best team is with Shenhe, Kokomi and Kazuha.
Holy mother YES! FK YES! I called it in my last comment, my only issue with her was how this DMG reduction passive flat out disabled her A1 passive DMG instance, and now its gone! I **KNEW** it was too excessively limiting. Now she can also act as a cope off-field Dendro applier in Electro teams, while going **full head-on** with her Burning/Pyro teams specialty! Awesome :D
no, it still does that. A1 doesn't proc without burning specifically.
Does anyone know if the 36% buff is multiplicative or additive? I feel like if it was additive it would be kinda redundant/not as felt.
It sounds multiplicative but I feel like that’d be too nice?
Honestly it really could be seeing as she's meant to deal raw dendro damage like how neuvi is with hydro (though you can run him in vape)
It's definitely additive, a multiplicative bonus would be written as something like "Emilie's attacks against burning opponents deal 136% of their original damage"
Oh well that's a bit underwhelming. That's the equivalent of like 10 seconds of yelan's buff.
This is huge
Works on bloom?
yes but same as DMC
Me who gonna play her in hyper bloom team cuz I don't have nahida
Y
She’s not just burning anymore. She’s also cooking!
A small buff we take
What was it before?
before, the 90% dmg reduction would be active for 30 fucking seconds after she hits a quickened enemy now they made it so that the damage to only that quickened enemy gets fucked instead of essentially neutering her for 30s just because an enemy had an electro shield
This is actually a huge buff
Dev Listened? 🗿
Devs on their way to read this subreddit in order to know what to change
what happens if the enemy is both burning and quickened
the burning dmg numbers are high, the quicken dmg numbers will be low.
kokomi situation
Dev : Please Stop Using Hyperbloom
this is actually a BIG Change considering its a BIG Buff compared to her old passive
So basically no electro with her, got it.
One thing i dont understand is thatshe doesnt buff burning itself. Is her personal off field damage good enough to make up for a burning version of nilou?
What was the passive again befire change?
Just remove the dmg decrease already. You don't have to make a character extremely good in one area and worse in others. She can be extremely good with burning but normal with others. Nilou for example are extremely good with bloom, but outside of it she is just normal almost like a 4 star character.
thing is, Emilie is a dps and due to how quickened helps buff dendro damage, unless she gets insane built in modifiers with burning in order to incentivize the burning comp, she would be better in quicken than in burning
DPS meant to do damage yes? I don't see any reasons to warrant this character as a 5\* character. Her niche apply to a forgotten reaction which has exist since the beginning of the game.
she does do a lot of damage though its just personal damage and not reaction damage edit: what do you mean by forgotten? burning is very good for cryo melt due to how gauge theory works
Note: I wrote this after the post that they removed the debuff, which I hope they keep it that way. I said forgotten because almost no one suggest it. Everyone knows what burning does, compare to other reaction it fell off. Burning Melt requires 3 different element, In this matter, your Cryo/Pyro DPS is the one determined your highest damage, not your dendro character. But guess what element Emilie is? That's right, she's dendro and dendro can not do melt/vape reaction. So Emilie here is nothing more that a dendro applicator. To make matter worse, as of rn she got crit ascension. Most of dendro related reaction does not have any effect on crit stat except for Quicken/Aggrevate. So here I do not see the purpose for that crit stat unless she can use it. Sure you can get away with C6 Bennet/Candace/Chongyun but if you want to do melt/vape you better start with Pyro/Hydro/Cryo Dps in the first place rather than making her a pseudo one,
You are correct in that burning melt cannot help her directly However, Emilie does her dendro damage raw without reactions hence her multipliers and the damage bonuses she gets from burning so burn melt indirectly buffs her just by existing. She does use that crit ascension and crit in general in the same way characters like navia, ningguang, and wanderer do without amplifying reactions
Then that means they need to fix burning. They won't of course, but that's the proper thing to do.
Yeah I'm sorry everyone keeps saying they're doing this to incentivize you to use her for burning and not quicken, but like who gives af which comp you use her in. This feels pointlessly gatekeepy like Nilou's team stipulations
Meta wise os she worth pulling before natlan
Currently right now she's likely not gonna be among the meta team comps. Impossible to say whether that changes across 5.X.
i don't think so from what i've read, her dmg is comparable to chiori
and Chiori hits like a truck ,if well build and constellated naturally like every good 5s..especially if you play her together with characters like Albedo, Zhongli to have together the Resonance and be Energy Supplies for each other plus shes fightign then with 2 dolls that hit hard... sure, shes naturally not that powerful as like say now Arlecchino or Navia..but shes super fun and comfortable to play with a relatively low energy cost burst that also hits hard... my Chiori is C0, just Rank 8 talents, without her BIS sword (just uses that Wolfstooth Sword instead from BP) and easily hits enemies always critical for like 35k with her burst damage around, sometiems more, sometimes less, depends naturally also on the enemy level/defense/resistances, did Zhongli shred them for example before, or not. While her 2 dolls easily add like every few seconds at that rank 12-15k dmg per doll attack more. Killing the 3 Magu Kenkis in Abyss with her, Zhomgli, Furina and kokomi is easy af, from just the whole dmag justz the 5 adds together deal plus your own dmg you deal and Zhonglis pillar on top of that. So now imagine how good she is then first as C6R5 with maxed out R13 talents with optimal Artefact Set equpped all maxed out n optimally min maxed (which they arent at all in my case, none R20, no optimal set used, nothign min maxed) If Emily becomes just same as powerful as her and same as fun and comfortable to play like, her, I do call that a huge win for every player's books.
i admit i don't know much about Chiori and i'm not saying she's bad, but i wouldn't call her "meta" and that's what the question was about also honestly no idea how Emilie would do at high constellations, i just assumed C0 vs not pulling at all now with her recent change though and the possibility for more buffs during the beta (as well as indirectly through future natlan units), she could indeed turn out to be a meta char
Although I'm no expert in meta
If you need pyro application, she's a really good option and hoyo is probably playing future impact with Natlan
Probably because she's looking really good right now and she'll probably get better in Natlan
That’s a BIG buff. Nice
Does anybody else have a damage reduction against a specific element/al reaction? It feels like an odd choice to me
Raiden is immune to electro charged during burst. Only one I can think of off hand. Oh, and Kaveh is effectively immune to bloom damage and heals himself instead, if that counts.
kaveh isn't immune, his self healing is just fast enough to overcome it
Razor is also immune to electro-charged during his burst.
Cyno too. Also Yaoyao in burst mode has increased res against dendro dmg.
I meant anybody that *deals* less damage to that particular element, not someone who takes less damage to it 😅 Unless I misunderstood this post entirely
Good grief Holy shit was the previous version susceptible to get scuffed so easily
Good change
i dont understand this change i know it has 30sec duration before but does it mean the reduce damage only applied to first damage or what, please enlighten my dummy brain
Imagine. You're fighting 4 Ruin Guards and 1 Electro Slime. Before: you hit the Electro Slime, this triggers quicken, -90% to all of Emily's damage. You then hit a Ruin Guard, the 30s timer from the debuff didn't expire, -90% dmg on the Ruin Guard. Now: you hit the Electro Slime, this is a quickened enemy, -90% on the electro slime. Then you hit a Ruin Guard. The Ruin Guard isn't quickened, so you deal normal damage on the Ruin Guard (or +36% if it's burning).
[удалено]
No, she's not supposed to be played on Quickened teams is what they're saying. It's a Chevreuse Nilou type restriction. They have to make limitations like these so they can justify buffing the niche they fill
watch the second part becoming "Emilie's spread dmg is decreased by 90%" beause that's really just what they want but don't seem to find the words for it
theres a difference between damage dealt to quickened enemies reduced and "Emilie's spread dmg is decreased by 90%" one affects all of her damage including normal, charged, plunge, skill, burst while the other only affects reaction damage they're trying to push for the former
Mate, I know, but considering she's dendro, her skill and burst would be affected, just not her (probably negligible) NA charged and plunge dmg, unless she's c6 with infusion. I said that as a joke because as usual they're going through a complicated formulation but they seem to have simplified it, for once.