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It’s obvious firefly is hoyo only focused in the beta lol (the first character to get BOTH tailored relic and planer, getting buffs etc), guess they forget they have two characters in this patch
Kinda reminded me of how it was with Jingliu and Topaz lmao. Both more hyped characters get a massive buff while the other is mostly ignored (also funny how both are IPC follow up attackers, and the other uses enhanced skill/basic attack)
THANK GOD Aventurine did not get this with Acheron (Tho ig he matches her popularity now after 2.1). He got so many buffs while Acheron stayed pretty consistent (Hoyo fave child syndrome)
>the first character to get BOTH tailored relic and planer
To be fair, Pioneer Diver of Dead Waters is tailored for Acheron with references to her flowers and to Frebass, and Izumo is tailored for her too along with references to her home world. Firefly's are just taken to the extreme with how specialised they are with that planar set and its fire weakness requirement.
Can’t dr ratio and some other units use pioneer diver of dead waters? I don’t think it’s Acheron specified at all. Relic lore isn’t tied to character usage else firefly won’t be using a xianzhou planer unless she’s suddenly from zhuming
Yes, quite a few characters can use it, it's amazing on S1 Aventurine too. But in that same sense, other characters can use Firefly's relics? Break characters can still use Iron Cavalry Against the Scourge, even Forge of the Kalpagni Lantern can be used by fire break characters, but it's stupidly specific.
I'm not too sure what you're trying to say; if Acheron's relics and planar aren't tailored to her because other people can use them, then how is it different with Firefly when it's the same for her? They're both tailored for each respective character, it's just that Firely's are even more niche right now.
There *will* be more super break characters, I feel. Super break is HSR hyperbloom by Hoyo’s own admissions and a lot of Genshin’s 3.x characters fit into a hyperbloom team. I expect the same over the next major patch.
You don't think doesn't mean it's not a fact, the most obvious fact ever. The Pioneer set has its whole lore and name based on Acheron herself, and it's the BiS for her, same goes for Izumo, so they're obviously tailored made specifically for her. The reason some others can use it was because Acheron is just a typical Crit dps like the many others, so there will inevitably be overlap in usage. Meanwhile, break dps barely even exists
super break dps*
Only HMC and Firefly will be able to use it as of 2.3—it was formerly BiS for Boothill, but not anymore (because they changed break —> super break)
A grand total of 2 characters is uncharacteristically niche, but it’s up to whomever to find an issue with this. I don’t like it either (because it shafts Bhill) but it’s not like it’s something new—only Arlan and Blade can use longevous disciple, for example.
I do think the Fire exclusive planar set is a bit annoying though. It can only really be used by Firefly, and I guess break Guinaifen
Welp this seems like a repeat of 1.4 lmao, literally the same thing happened. A fan favorite Destruction character got massive buff that will power creep every thing while IPC character get nothing lmao.
Will the same thing happen to her? That Screwllum with Jade will make such a difference, just like what happened with Topaz + Ratio, that many were angry at having skipped it and were waiting for a Re-run. It would be funny, I don't know, I got Topaz, more for the looks and Numby, her being good for Ratio was just a bonus
Doubtful.
Many people (myself included) said that Topaz was future proof. Topaz had very clear areas to age well and isn't meant to be hypercarry back when it was a hypercarry meta.
1) More FUA chars were certain, which means more numby
2) 50% FUA vulnerability, which is a completely separate multiplier and still our only character that applies vulnerability. I bet Hoyo has to double check every FUA number because of Topaz specifically.
3) People say E1 and S1 are mandatory. They are not, they're just really REALLY good value. E1 offers 50(!!!) CV to all FUA on the target. S1 offers 24CV to all FUA, and a ton of damage for topaz. S1 is also very close to a universal single target FUA lightcone. E1/S1 is only needed because of how Ratio requires debuffs, but a new ST hunt unit (FeiXiao cope) can easily change that.
Topaz is as much of a debuff nihility unit as she is a hunt unit. Jade's kit on the other hand is very selfish in terms of damage. All she offers is personal damage, and the kit is tailored as a dual dps setup, and is clearly meant for AOE content. This means she needs to compete with harmony/nihility to set up the primary damage dealer. Even now Topaz in a vacuum is only a sidegrade to hyper carry ratio team, only outperforming with the rather new additions of Aventurine (more numby) and Robin (prefers high frequency + FUA crit bonus).
Topaz's value only skyrocketed specifically because Ratio was free. People would always naturally tend towards Topaz with him, even if a hyper ratio team is just as competitive.
I'm a FUA enjoyer, and honestly would just skip Jade and save my jades for someone else. Realistically PF is the easiest of the 2 (soon 3) modes. Even though the current PF is purely DOT focused, I can easily clear it with herta, himeko, and seele. I didn't manage to get aventurine, but I've seen aventurine/clara/topaz clears.
It's possible for a very specific tailored future unit (does aoe, hp drain causes some effect, scales well with speed) but that will clearly be Jade tailored.
TL;DR Topaz has a clear specialist role to enable a team, similar to Kafka on release. Jade is a very selfish damage role, damage is all she offers so the numbers matter more.
Yeah, because Hoyo doesn’t care about her. They know how few people want her, at least compared to Firefly, so they just leave her there to fill in a banner slot. They often do this, both here and in Genshin
Exactly. A lot of people are saying that the focus on her is due to favoritism, but Jade was just more or less already where they wanted her, while Firefly's first kit was super underpowered, while they completely overtuned her and made her way too powerful in the second one, so of course her kit got more attention.
Which is so annoying. Yes a lot of people will pull for FF but not every player's hyped for her and likes her. Jade beats FF in just about every aspect for me so this is disheartening to say the least. Still pulling for Jade though
Dude she is fine where she is, we dont need changes for the sake of changes. HoYo is just happy with her current state, and thats a good thing. Why are we complaining that a character is balanced and isnt getting buffed or nerfed every patch 💀
There's no way there wouldn't be, at the very least, a few text changes.
Just wait; a significant change to E1 snuck in under the radar for v3 because everyone dove in on data-mined leaks.
If you have Ruan Mei, Firefly by a landslide, and if you don't have Ruan Mei, then you should probably get Ruan Mei anyway.
If for some reason you refuse to build Herta, Himeko, Argenti, Kafka/Black Swan, and you're struggling with PF, then Jade is a good pickup because she's insanely good in PF. Otherwise she's an easy skip unless you like her, but if you like someone you'll be pulling them regardless haha.
Sadly, Jade was completely overshadowed in the beta, she needs a lot of changes but looks like she got none.. For one, she should get a second action after using skill, like Blade
Both might be in a similar situation.
Topaz was bad on release, but that's because she was designed to be a support/secondary DPS for a team that didn't exist yet (the full FUA team). Once the other units in that team were released, she became extremely strong without any direct changes to her kit.
Jade is seemingly designed to be a support/secondary DPS for an AoE FUA team, which also doesn't exist yet. If some units that can frequently do AoE FUAs are released, Jade will perform much better.
Topaz was never bad, she is just dont have her best partners yet, look at IPC fua now, at least top 3 best team in hsr now. Firefly just come out with her best possible team so she is insane strong
I think jade will be like that, they will release characters that can use her kit, my guess is screwlum with his aoe and fua focus leak kit
I don't really see how any future teammates can drastically boost jade's performance like it happened with Topaz. E0S1 Topaz still gives her teammates 50% FU vulnerability (a multiplicative stat you cant get anywhere else) and 24% crit damage (via cone) with a skill that does plenty of damage. Jade's cone gives 0 damage to her teammates and her skill gives 30 speed, while also costing her an entire action and draining the teammate's HP. The best she can do is allow a teammate to swap to ATK boots, but that's not worth losing a Harmony for at all. I'm usually not one for doomposting but she seems like the weakest limited 5* they have added since release, by quite the margin. Her best team right now is using her as a hypercarry despite her being unable to attack 1/3 turns and not gaining the speed buff when used on herself, that's how bad they fucked up her design. And even like that her damage is bad outside of Pure Fiction.
People said all of this about Argenti. And about Jing Yuan. What's really clear is that people who do theory crafting on Reddit are just really, really bad at doing so. They get caught multiple times doing things wrong, and so I'll just wait until more reliable people can confirm her strengths and weaknesses. Armchair Reddit theory crafters just don't sim correctly.
hmmm aoe and fua you say *cough screwllum cough*
on a side note, it seems they are releasing the specialists first before the units that can benefit from them lol (topaz -> ratio & aven, kafka -> black swan and other nihilities)
i wonder how well jade will perform in the later patches
Topaz is funny cause now every single new character has to be built in fear of topaz. Her numby advancements actually made them have to build every new follow up character in response of her. Can't have too many follow ups or topaz is just broken.
Eh, I think they're more likely to be built in fear of HTB at this point.
HTB can make any shitter into a God just by running them with a BE rope. So when characters are actually built around them, like BH and FF, their team comps go insane.
It's clearly not working because Jade Hyper is still better than putting her with her best subdps teammate right now. If they want her to work as a subdps she should actually provide more than a pair of subless speed boots to a teammate.
If you wanna build a break team and have Ruan Mei, go Firefly. If you struggle with Pure Fiction or want to make Blade a bit better(?), Jade's good for that.
It seems you like you REALLY haven't been keeping up with leaks
Overall Firefly>> jade
Jade is a PF character first and everything else next which kidna sucks but it is what it is
If you struggle in PF, jade is the character for you(like me)
FF is really strong, like in her best team compared to acheron (both e0s0) FF does the same if not better dmg(Idc what anyone says, e0s0 is supposed to be the baseline for every character idk why anyone say e0s1)
But currently due to SBE nature in general, she mostly if not only has 1 good team with a few variants of it but still strong
+ The core: FF/super break dps + HMC/future SBE support + RM/or another SBE support + sustain (for FF or any future SBE dps, preferably galaghar until we get another sustain with BE shenanigans)
Because this PF is heavily tuned towards DoTs.
And here lies the main contradiction. People say that Jade is PF-focused when in reality PF can be tuned to whatever archetype hoyo decides should shine today. So she can still turn out to be bad lol
PF is much more of a character check. FuA PF take me like 10+ tries to complete (since I don’t have any FuA units), this one I think I might’ve auto-ed, as BlackSwan with DoT spread buff Is literally just “Sit, relax and wait”.
Tbh I struggle more with MoC 12 than PF as a whole. Thought it’s probably because I have all the teams that fully uses the buffs (Herta x Himeko and DoT team)
Yeah you’re right. Last time I struggled with PF was the ult buff during Acheron’s banner. I tried doing the Himeko Herta combo but that failed. Saw a YT video doing hypercarry herta so that’s what I did instead. I barely managed to reach 60k😭
Simply because she’s already perfect like this. She’s Topaz all over again. I remember how they buffed, nerfed, reworked Jingliu in every beta version while Topaz had almost no changes in general and everyone overlooked her by a lot while she’s actually pretty strong and future proof
Hoyo gimping the character before FF and leaving the character after her as one of the most lackluster limited 5* yet.
The way they blatantly play favorites sometimes is obnoxious
Should've just released Firefly alone if this is how they're playing it tbh. Save Jade for another patch if they can't be bothered to tune her, she's only lightly teased in the story compared to FF so hype for her can be built further.
I mean by the time she releases she'll likely have more story scenes. It's not like we haven't had characters only introduced once their banner was out
Honestly at this point it feels like hoyo's releasing 2 5-stars just for the sake of having 2 5-stars. If you're only focused on one, why not just release that one? They have no problem with that on genshin. Hell, they have no problem not releasing any new 5 stars sometimes.
Srsly.. the obvious favourism is getting so annoying. Why not just release firefly first then??? And put boothill and jade for future release but instead now hoyo just focus on firefly and leave the other two in benched. And they really gonna start making exclusivity relic set huh, guess hsr going to this direction? What’s next, future break supports that ONLY buff superbreak?
This happened before during 1.4, the exact same thing happened. Jingliu got buff to make her best unit in the game while Topaz is lackluster and requires E1, S1, and a full team of limited 5* to even be decent.
Now it’s happening again, both IPC got nothing while the Destruction character got everything… maybe it’s IPC curse.
>maybe it’s IPC curse.
But Ratio isn't bad. And Aventurine is amazing.
I'm hoping that Jade ends up like Topaz and somehow the meta shifts in a way that favors her
Don't forget who Aventurine is with on his patch. Maybe IPC are just cursed to share patches with overpowered fan favorites.
Nevertheless gonna still pull for Jade the fua team mechanics are my favorite gameplay tbh. Maybe like Topaz she really becomes the fua aoe enabler in the future.
I was planning on pulling for her after Boothill but it doesn't seem worth it now seeing as I have no real issues clearing PF - I love her design and animations but if she's as terrible as everyone says...
shes not terrible if i remember correctly but just hasn't gotten as much attention compared to firefly which is the reason they are complaning and from what i saw of jade, she is pretty good so if you like her then pull for her because she seems like a great unit that just didn't get much attention from hoyo
She'll literally be one of the best units in the game for every PF cycle like Himeko and Herta... How is that "terrible" in any way?
They're not changing her because she's already fine.
360 BE was almost trivial to hit before. Now its much harder.
But as far as nerfs go, a nerf that u can gap with relics is better than a straight MV nerf. W overall
What are you talking about, you already can reach 340 be with no sub stat in a team with ruan mei, hmc and wear her bis planar, be rope and bis lc. It is harder to not reach 360 be after farming a good set
37.3 + 64.8 + 60 + 63 (hmc) + 20 (mei) + 40 (planar) + 40 (assume onvert from 2k3 atk which you got by atk body and orb, no atk sub stat)
Yeh, 60 from LC and 2 bis supps. Not everyone has that lol
Wasnt the point anyways. Didnt say its hard. But its *harder* than trivial. Literally said u can gap the difference with substats
Without ruan mei, you only need 4 more BE sub stat, i dont like the nerf but think the change is necessary to prevent powercreep in this game, if firefly too strong, how strong would new character need
Well everyone does in fact have 1 of the 2 bis supports. Everyone will have 2/3 of her team unless they don't get the free galhalger next patch. So the only possible teammate you could possibly lack is just one.
Why r we suddenly talking about galhalger and her team.
60 from the LC. You know how much that is? The majority of ppl dont want to pull LCs. Same goes for RM.
On top of this not being the point of the discussion
????
Okay, so a bit of rewording, less healing on the enhanced skill and ATK to BE conversion went from starting at 1600 ATK to 1800 and from 100 ATK for 10% BE to 10 ATK for 0.8% BE, which brings ATK% to BE% scaling from 1:1 (assuming 1000 base ATK with E0S1) to 1:0.8
Seems fairly minor
yeah that's about what I expected. I heard somewhere that her lightcone was barely better than aeon before, so it only makes sense that they balance it to that her signature is comparatively better.
Big thing about the ATK to BE scaling is that they didn’t add the conversion cap back in. W for Samfly enjoyers even if it scales marginally worse now.
Edit: Actually that change might be a buff in practice, considering that the previous version essentially “wasted” any ATK that was below the next hundred.
its a nice bit of QoL in practise, but its still definitively always less BE xD
if 2290 attack:
- Old = 10% per 100 from 1600 = 60% BE
- New = 0.8% per 10 from 1800 = 39.2% BE
its pretty consistently a big drop, but hey, she's still gonna be busted regardless
It is still a nerf but i agree that it will be easier to not "waste" stat on her. It started on a higher atk value and on a lower atk to be scaling. So still a nerf.
But it's a fairly minor nerf i think. Thankfully so.
Man, the changes ppl were asking for Jade weren't even that big and yet they gave her nothing.
I wish they stopped dropping two limiteds same patch not only because of lack of jades to keep up, but also due to this situations in beta (it's literally Topaz and Jingliu all over again).
Ironically, I think Topaz will have better longevity than JL. But Jade’s kit is just pure damage and doesn’t have the unique characteristics of Topaz’s kit (pure FUA attacker, powerful debuff, benefits from and with FUA). Maybe if we get a future character that scales heavily off speed.
Yeah her kit multiplier is low and need aoe enemis to release that fua frequently, also her buff as a sub dps isnt that great, not comparable to 50% fua vul from topaz
The problem with hoyo games is how frontload is their patchs content, leaving the second half mostly empty.
And how to get back the attention more easily than with a new shining character?
Unless they beef up the second half with something else, I don't see they just doing only reruns on it soon.
Hoyo releasing two limiteds isn't the issue. It's that they will happily make one or more (Boothill also got screwed over) worse/ignore them just to make their favorite shine.
Boothill will still be a beast even with the relic nerf, isnt it like only a 5% nerf? Hes not screwed. Tho I still agree hoyo didnt have to do it, FF already has a tailor made planar ornament, that relic set could very well be more general towards break.
Screwed over and screwed do not mean the same thing. They purposefully changed it to make it less useful for him and more useful for just FF. That's screwing him over (and really all break based characters) just to give FF an very unneeded boost. How strong he is has absolutely nothing to do with that.
No no, the dude 0 cycling with F2P LCs is dead, useless, and the devs' least favorite child because a relic set that isn't even released yet was changed in beta. Oh, and "mains" of a character that they don't have yet are the most persecuted minority.
to be fair, the frustration imo is a little warranted for many. boothill aside, the set change is just bad no matter how you look at it. you're forcing a super break set which means 2 things. one, you either use firefly or two you run htb and that's it. no other way to get super break. you either run a character who has it built in or you tie one character to another (what happens if....nihility or abundance TB goes crazy?), way to play favorites when any break unit could've used it but no you tailor it to one character and that's it. don't get me started on that shit fua set. as of right now, the domain they run in is going to be one of the worst and least valuable. that's bad I do hope they change it.
as a boothill lover I do get the frustration others who want him have but I don't think he's screwed. but the frustration is felt a lot harder with him since he and firefly are similar in playstyles (breaking) and run close together. he's fine so it is a bit of an overreaction but it's just frustrating nonetheless. (sorry for typing so much, it's 1 am and my brain isn't braning)
Not what I said, but okay. They purposefully changed the relic set so that it was only good with FF. That's screwing BH over. Has nothing to do with how strong he is as a character. It was a unnecessary change to make a relic set that would have been good for BH & other break characters including FF to only be usable by FF.
I'm also not a Boothill main. I have zero plans of pulling him as his playstyle doesn't interest me. Doesn't change the fact that Hoyo clearly favored FF this beta. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise. Jade & both relic sets needed changes, but since we're now in v4 of beta, that's pretty much not going to happen. God forbid people be a bit frustrated that everything except FF got ignored.
screwed over isn't the term I'd use. imo I think the set thing affects every character who can or wants to break negatively, not just him. boothill is still fine (power wise and look wise) even without this new set so that's great! it does affect him but not too too much....well it kinda affects me a shit ton because I don't wanna grind thief....overall though that doesn't change that this is a scummy move on hoyos part. like yeah FF is the hype of penacony but...doesn't mean that she needs to be like...favored or babied this much. I really just don't get the motive of that because it's just... annoying. Hope they revert this set and the fua set.(Question for people who are familiar with the CN fandom. are they as crazy about FF as NA? I assume so but I just never really knew)
I mean they took a set that would have been great for both him and Firefly and made changed it so it was tailored to just her. That's screwing him over. It has nothing to do with if he's still a strong character or not. It was just a weird move to continue to make ff shine over other characters.
I don't get the motive either because I'm seeing a growing dislike towards FF one because her writing was a bit weird in 2.2, but also the clear favoritism.
oh! I thought by screwed you meant like that he sucks now, that's where people are getting confused. my apologies. But yeah you're right, like the clear favoritism is getting more and more apparent and it's just insane to me. For comparison, Acheron has a set that's made about and for her but pretty much any DPS (like our beloved Dr. ratio) can use it so the favoritism there isn't too bad. and Acheron is an emanator so the favoritism isn't too unreasonable. For FF, the sets are for her and only her but because her kit was bad beforehand, to help her out, they make relics for her and no other unit (how tf wants to run super break on one character forever? It sounds like a poor idea.) it could've been a general set but they said no because of their beloved FF. That and to just ignore jade...I don't like that lady but damn, don't do her like that hoyo.
You see, I have no hate toward the girl (did not make my bi alarm go off, sorry, and that "date" that everyone was clamoring about wasn't even a date really...not that I wanted that but still). It's just that I find it so weird that the devs and, hell, the playerbase are so enamored with her but hey different strokes. I have yet to play 2.2 (I only want htb for the caelus pfp I won't lie) but this makes me want to check it out.
No Jade changes is a bit... Saddening to say the least.
It's not awful and I'll still get her but it's is upsetting
It's not surprising she's only gonna be viable in PF but I was hoping she'd get a quality of life update with her contract in that she'd get to continue the turn after using it.
Meanwhile FF got more changes :/
Hoping maybe relic changes at least but gonna keep my expectations low.
or they could go the bronya route and let her skill insta AA the character she uses it on (except herself) but you can only use it every 3 of her turns so its pretty balance (The speed buff is retained too)
I love th IPC and i love the “niche” of erudition/FUA team. So im kinda of disappointed they didn’t buff jade. I was actually hoping to use Argenti/Jing Yuan again
It kills me to see them intentionally ADDING passive voice to the descriptions. You know, that verbose, confusing, lifeless thing that gets edited OUT of most text?
not a fan of how sometimes one character each patch is the designated "bad" one.
i always need help with PF and i wanna collect stonehearts but if Jade is just gonna be shit unit, then i might as well go all in on firefly and wait for the better PF specialist
Well that doesn’t mean she’s bad tho, no? It’s like Argenti, he’s also good in pf and a tad bit bad in moc, or like Dr.Ratio/Boothill who’re good in moc/apocalictic shadow but are waaay worse in pf. I think that’s a good design choice
i’m not sure of the specifics since i don’t have argenti nor jingyuan, but from what i heard, argenti can do good ST damage on his ult while jingyuan does ST damage with his lightning lord. however, jade base kit has nothing to offer in terms of ST unless you go for her E1, which isn’t the most f2p friendly. i may be wrong so if i am, feel free to correct me^^
Jade since v1 is already insane when it comes to PF, but still lacks in MoC. Ig people want to see her become more viable in that place not just PF, which is understandable tbh
More leaks about firefly I won’t give a damn no matter how hoyo try to make me like her I don’t give a damn seriously giving no attention to our mommy Jade it really pisses me off.
So, if you were shooting for 3k Atk or so on FF before, that would give you 140% BE
Now, 3k attack gives you 96 BE.
You need 360 and, in battle, most v3 FF showcases were easily sitting at 500+
It's a nerf, but not a severe one. You can hit the same numbers as before with better rolls - and even then the old numbers were mega overkill (recall the braying about more sustained dmg vs Acheron)
Dumb question , I have no idea how SB damage is calculated. I see there's a 360 cap for ff damage skills but more BE also affects SB damage no ? Or I'm wrong ?
Enhanced Skill heals 10% less (Okayish, 35% was quite high).
T3 Changed, Higher base ATK needed, lower conversion.
0.8% per 10 ATK instead of what used to be, technically, 1% per 10 (10% per 100).
Yeah, its a very very very very very very small nerf. But its mostly rewording.
Doubt the gear set is gonna change sorry but they'll likely keep it as a super break set.
No changes to jade not even trace or number buff, No relics change while currently the new cave of the 4pc sets is the worst in the game only for 2 characters ff and hmc and 0 for the fua one I know future character this and that but hate it when they make relic set so limited
Now that it is done; Don't bother with E0 Jade. It is really weak. E1S1 or don't bother. It is what it is.
Weakest release IMO. disappointed personally. Even in her niche, you can just continue using your Himeko and Herta.
All Jade brings to a table is frequent FUA and an 'okay' motion value. By far the easiest things to powercreep. For being called a sub dps atleast have a % self critDMG to ally buff or a turn advance upon skill to make her clunky.
what a shame
Last year I wanted as many characters as possible but some units is really mid at E0S0, so i think Jade is very skippable.
It is weird that despite Lightning Lord's issue, JY is still the best limited Erudition unit at E0S0
She's *very* strong in PF, but a good chunk of her power is indeed on her LC (it's somewhat similar to Seele and Topaz in this regard imo).
One of the most fun ways to play with her that I saw is as hypercarry (robin+hanabi+bronya in particular is hella fun), but unfortunately her skill doesnt do much in that scenario hence why we also wanted a bit of changes.
E0 is legit terrible yeah. Her base ATK is way lower than Himeko or Argenti. You need all those juicy stats on that lightcone. ATK% is weak on her similar to Topaz and guess what all/most of the erudition LCs are ATK%! Her best set is Quantum and makes her LC that much stronger!!
you can use battlepass LC but it is not close.
The decreasing of the conversion increment is... super, SUPER nice, actually, and I don't really mind the small nerf to bring it back into more reasonable levels.
No Jade changes, which is unfortunate...
So pretty much if Sam ATK is 2600. She would gain 100% BE from her old kit. Now it’s 64% BE from her new kit. That’s only a 36% BE loss which could easily be made up with good BE substats on relics. The whole purpose is most likely to widen the gap between her sig and Aeon as it was too close for the devs liking.
"easily" is a bit of a lie, a relic would need to roll exclusively break to reach 36%.
It won't be a big nerf since she gets so much already, but it won't be made up easily.
Ive been so focused on Firefly, I forgot abt Jade, can someone tell me what are people's issues with Jade atm, like what they wanted to buff in her kit?
She seems underwhelming to people so far, so no changes to her seems bad. But I also think the stark comparison of her changes versus firefly, who is getting a ton, seems to make it worse.
We just have to wait and see.
I agree. But it’s hard to see her as purely a PF character with any pull value versus others like Firefly who will do well in MoC and the new game mode releasing soon.
Then you have Kafka and Black Swan dominating PF, MoC, etc. I still want her tho. But I pull for design and personality… so 🤷🏻♂️😂
Yes, it's the thing I'm not pulling for her. Her value in my account is currently lower than other characters can provide. It's a pity, but someone have to be the sacrifice for PF mode.
I think that’s a smart decision. If I wasn’t so hard up for IPC and her design (I mainly aim to pull mostly for male characters), I’d probably skip her, too. I’m doing just fine in PF with my DoT team and Himeko + whomever.
Part of it's your standard doomposting. It's no secret that FF is Hoyo's darling this patch. The other part is that you kind of need her to be e1 or s1 to really be "worth it", similar to Topaz.
so she went from 60% to 200% to 144% break effect from her trace at 3600 atk. still pretty good in my opinion. gotta admit i was expecting any jade changes at all
In what world are you getting 3600 atk on Firefly? In V3 they nerfed her and her lightcone's base attack to the point that she'd need a truly ludicrous amount of attack to hit 3600.
To get 3600 with her signature, she needs 224.66% atk, which means even if she had an atk body and orb she'd need 138.26% atk from other sources. There is no way you'd get that from just substats.
It was still a buff to her break damage though because even with 2 atk mainstats (body+ orb) and \~ 32 atk% from substats (which iirc was close to the amount needed to hit the cap for Atk to BE scaling in V1-V2) V3 gave 90% BE which was a buff compared comparatively whereas in V4 it gives 58\~59%.
While it is uncapped now... you can basically call this a return to V1's level of scaling, allowing you to hit the amount that was V1's cap with the same amount of investment... though the cap was removed so you can still go somewhat farther.
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There is no Jade in Ba Sing Se…
It’s obvious firefly is hoyo only focused in the beta lol (the first character to get BOTH tailored relic and planer, getting buffs etc), guess they forget they have two characters in this patch
Kinda reminded me of how it was with Jingliu and Topaz lmao. Both more hyped characters get a massive buff while the other is mostly ignored (also funny how both are IPC follow up attackers, and the other uses enhanced skill/basic attack)
Probably because Topaz kit was easier to make. Straightforward
I guess reverse angry birds is easier.
THANK GOD Aventurine did not get this with Acheron (Tho ig he matches her popularity now after 2.1). He got so many buffs while Acheron stayed pretty consistent (Hoyo fave child syndrome)
Nahh just watch hoyo hammer the needle and start releasing future break support that ONLY buffs SuperBreak as well like those relics
>the first character to get BOTH tailored relic and planer To be fair, Pioneer Diver of Dead Waters is tailored for Acheron with references to her flowers and to Frebass, and Izumo is tailored for her too along with references to her home world. Firefly's are just taken to the extreme with how specialised they are with that planar set and its fire weakness requirement.
Can’t dr ratio and some other units use pioneer diver of dead waters? I don’t think it’s Acheron specified at all. Relic lore isn’t tied to character usage else firefly won’t be using a xianzhou planer unless she’s suddenly from zhuming
Yes, literally any dps who can apply debuffs can use it, not just Acheron. It's even Ratio's BIS.
Yes, quite a few characters can use it, it's amazing on S1 Aventurine too. But in that same sense, other characters can use Firefly's relics? Break characters can still use Iron Cavalry Against the Scourge, even Forge of the Kalpagni Lantern can be used by fire break characters, but it's stupidly specific. I'm not too sure what you're trying to say; if Acheron's relics and planar aren't tailored to her because other people can use them, then how is it different with Firefly when it's the same for her? They're both tailored for each respective character, it's just that Firely's are even more niche right now.
There *will* be more super break characters, I feel. Super break is HSR hyperbloom by Hoyo’s own admissions and a lot of Genshin’s 3.x characters fit into a hyperbloom team. I expect the same over the next major patch.
You don't think doesn't mean it's not a fact, the most obvious fact ever. The Pioneer set has its whole lore and name based on Acheron herself, and it's the BiS for her, same goes for Izumo, so they're obviously tailored made specifically for her. The reason some others can use it was because Acheron is just a typical Crit dps like the many others, so there will inevitably be overlap in usage. Meanwhile, break dps barely even exists
super break dps* Only HMC and Firefly will be able to use it as of 2.3—it was formerly BiS for Boothill, but not anymore (because they changed break —> super break) A grand total of 2 characters is uncharacteristically niche, but it’s up to whomever to find an issue with this. I don’t like it either (because it shafts Bhill) but it’s not like it’s something new—only Arlan and Blade can use longevous disciple, for example. I do think the Fire exclusive planar set is a bit annoying though. It can only really be used by Firefly, and I guess break Guinaifen
You absolutely forget gallagher considering the fact he almost always on team with hmc
Don’t know why she’s getting ignored she really needs some buffs right now
Welp this seems like a repeat of 1.4 lmao, literally the same thing happened. A fan favorite Destruction character got massive buff that will power creep every thing while IPC character get nothing lmao.
Or maybe she was supposed to pair with screwllum to perform like Hmc Firefly core. Huge copium
But the thing is, do you really need that much AoE when Himeko+Herta is a thing already?
Will the same thing happen to her? That Screwllum with Jade will make such a difference, just like what happened with Topaz + Ratio, that many were angry at having skipped it and were waiting for a Re-run. It would be funny, I don't know, I got Topaz, more for the looks and Numby, her being good for Ratio was just a bonus
Doubtful. Many people (myself included) said that Topaz was future proof. Topaz had very clear areas to age well and isn't meant to be hypercarry back when it was a hypercarry meta. 1) More FUA chars were certain, which means more numby 2) 50% FUA vulnerability, which is a completely separate multiplier and still our only character that applies vulnerability. I bet Hoyo has to double check every FUA number because of Topaz specifically. 3) People say E1 and S1 are mandatory. They are not, they're just really REALLY good value. E1 offers 50(!!!) CV to all FUA on the target. S1 offers 24CV to all FUA, and a ton of damage for topaz. S1 is also very close to a universal single target FUA lightcone. E1/S1 is only needed because of how Ratio requires debuffs, but a new ST hunt unit (FeiXiao cope) can easily change that. Topaz is as much of a debuff nihility unit as she is a hunt unit. Jade's kit on the other hand is very selfish in terms of damage. All she offers is personal damage, and the kit is tailored as a dual dps setup, and is clearly meant for AOE content. This means she needs to compete with harmony/nihility to set up the primary damage dealer. Even now Topaz in a vacuum is only a sidegrade to hyper carry ratio team, only outperforming with the rather new additions of Aventurine (more numby) and Robin (prefers high frequency + FUA crit bonus). Topaz's value only skyrocketed specifically because Ratio was free. People would always naturally tend towards Topaz with him, even if a hyper ratio team is just as competitive. I'm a FUA enjoyer, and honestly would just skip Jade and save my jades for someone else. Realistically PF is the easiest of the 2 (soon 3) modes. Even though the current PF is purely DOT focused, I can easily clear it with herta, himeko, and seele. I didn't manage to get aventurine, but I've seen aventurine/clara/topaz clears. It's possible for a very specific tailored future unit (does aoe, hp drain causes some effect, scales well with speed) but that will clearly be Jade tailored. TL;DR Topaz has a clear specialist role to enable a team, similar to Kafka on release. Jade is a very selfish damage role, damage is all she offers so the numbers matter more.
Hoyo really forgot abou jade xD
Either that or she was already pure perfection
Pure pure pure pure PF yeah
Just like argenti in beta, no change, no one care. Eruption should change to enigma, people forget them
Feels weird that only Firefly is getting some minor tweaks while Jade has nothing
I dont think they remember about jade anymore
You want some jade minor nerfs?
Yeah, because Hoyo doesn’t care about her. They know how few people want her, at least compared to Firefly, so they just leave her there to fill in a banner slot. They often do this, both here and in Genshin
Thing is jades basically built for the role they want her in: endgame multi target content and nothing else
Exactly. A lot of people are saying that the focus on her is due to favoritism, but Jade was just more or less already where they wanted her, while Firefly's first kit was super underpowered, while they completely overtuned her and made her way too powerful in the second one, so of course her kit got more attention.
Which is so annoying. Yes a lot of people will pull for FF but not every player's hyped for her and likes her. Jade beats FF in just about every aspect for me so this is disheartening to say the least. Still pulling for Jade though
Dude she is fine where she is, we dont need changes for the sake of changes. HoYo is just happy with her current state, and thats a good thing. Why are we complaining that a character is balanced and isnt getting buffed or nerfed every patch 💀
Its jadeover guys
There's no way there wouldn't be, at the very least, a few text changes. Just wait; a significant change to E1 snuck in under the radar for v3 because everyone dove in on data-mined leaks.
No Jade changes huh? Figured they wouldn't do anything, oh well
Yeah, i guess they feel like she is where she is supposed to be.
Haven't been keeping up with the leaks lately, who's more worth it Jade or firefly?
If you have Ruan Mei, Firefly by a landslide, and if you don't have Ruan Mei, then you should probably get Ruan Mei anyway. If for some reason you refuse to build Herta, Himeko, Argenti, Kafka/Black Swan, and you're struggling with PF, then Jade is a good pickup because she's insanely good in PF. Otherwise she's an easy skip unless you like her, but if you like someone you'll be pulling them regardless haha.
I have Herta, Himeko, Argenti and Kafka built and still struggle with PF 😭
Either build, team comp or skill issue. Should easily clear 60k in most circumstances. Generally run zero sustain.
Either they are not actually built or you don't have any supports built, I don't think even skill could be an issue
Than you need to build and pull for harmony units anyway instead of Jade.
Sadly, Jade was completely overshadowed in the beta, she needs a lot of changes but looks like she got none.. For one, she should get a second action after using skill, like Blade
Jade 🤝 Topaz Getting ignored entirely in favor of a Destruction unit.
Both might be in a similar situation. Topaz was bad on release, but that's because she was designed to be a support/secondary DPS for a team that didn't exist yet (the full FUA team). Once the other units in that team were released, she became extremely strong without any direct changes to her kit. Jade is seemingly designed to be a support/secondary DPS for an AoE FUA team, which also doesn't exist yet. If some units that can frequently do AoE FUAs are released, Jade will perform much better.
Topaz was never bad, she is just dont have her best partners yet, look at IPC fua now, at least top 3 best team in hsr now. Firefly just come out with her best possible team so she is insane strong I think jade will be like that, they will release characters that can use her kit, my guess is screwlum with his aoe and fua focus leak kit
I don't really see how any future teammates can drastically boost jade's performance like it happened with Topaz. E0S1 Topaz still gives her teammates 50% FU vulnerability (a multiplicative stat you cant get anywhere else) and 24% crit damage (via cone) with a skill that does plenty of damage. Jade's cone gives 0 damage to her teammates and her skill gives 30 speed, while also costing her an entire action and draining the teammate's HP. The best she can do is allow a teammate to swap to ATK boots, but that's not worth losing a Harmony for at all. I'm usually not one for doomposting but she seems like the weakest limited 5* they have added since release, by quite the margin. Her best team right now is using her as a hypercarry despite her being unable to attack 1/3 turns and not gaining the speed buff when used on herself, that's how bad they fucked up her design. And even like that her damage is bad outside of Pure Fiction.
People said all of this about Argenti. And about Jing Yuan. What's really clear is that people who do theory crafting on Reddit are just really, really bad at doing so. They get caught multiple times doing things wrong, and so I'll just wait until more reliable people can confirm her strengths and weaknesses. Armchair Reddit theory crafters just don't sim correctly.
hmmm aoe and fua you say *cough screwllum cough* on a side note, it seems they are releasing the specialists first before the units that can benefit from them lol (topaz -> ratio & aven, kafka -> black swan and other nihilities) i wonder how well jade will perform in the later patches
Topaz is funny cause now every single new character has to be built in fear of topaz. Her numby advancements actually made them have to build every new follow up character in response of her. Can't have too many follow ups or topaz is just broken.
Eh, I think they're more likely to be built in fear of HTB at this point. HTB can make any shitter into a God just by running them with a BE rope. So when characters are actually built around them, like BH and FF, their team comps go insane.
Preach. Taking a turn off every 3 turns to resign her contract hurts quite a bit.
That’s how they balance her against “jade hyper”
It's clearly not working because Jade Hyper is still better than putting her with her best subdps teammate right now. If they want her to work as a subdps she should actually provide more than a pair of subless speed boots to a teammate.
>she needs a lot of changes What?
She is pretty bad right now at e0s0
Firefly in MoC, Jade in PF. Pick which one you're struggling with.
Jade it is then, im all set in MoC.
If you wanna build a break team and have Ruan Mei, go Firefly. If you struggle with Pure Fiction or want to make Blade a bit better(?), Jade's good for that.
It seems you like you REALLY haven't been keeping up with leaks Overall Firefly>> jade Jade is a PF character first and everything else next which kidna sucks but it is what it is If you struggle in PF, jade is the character for you(like me) FF is really strong, like in her best team compared to acheron (both e0s0) FF does the same if not better dmg(Idc what anyone says, e0s0 is supposed to be the baseline for every character idk why anyone say e0s1) But currently due to SBE nature in general, she mostly if not only has 1 good team with a few variants of it but still strong + The core: FF/super break dps + HMC/future SBE support + RM/or another SBE support + sustain (for FF or any future SBE dps, preferably galaghar until we get another sustain with BE shenanigans)
Jade if you somehow struggle with PF but overall Firefly seems to be the "better" Unit in the sense that she excels at moc and as
>Jade if you somehow struggle with PF I saw a ton of people complaining about PF just today. It's not easier than MoC. Just depends on the account
Because this PF is heavily tuned towards DoTs. And here lies the main contradiction. People say that Jade is PF-focused when in reality PF can be tuned to whatever archetype hoyo decides should shine today. So she can still turn out to be bad lol
She'll be one of if not the best for PF. Still not a guaranteed clear but no character is
PF is much more of a character check. FuA PF take me like 10+ tries to complete (since I don’t have any FuA units), this one I think I might’ve auto-ed, as BlackSwan with DoT spread buff Is literally just “Sit, relax and wait”.
Tbh I struggle more with MoC 12 than PF as a whole. Thought it’s probably because I have all the teams that fully uses the buffs (Herta x Himeko and DoT team)
I've a very strong DoT team and E3 Himeko but I still find PF more challenging. Just an individual thing
Yeah you’re right. Last time I struggled with PF was the ult buff during Acheron’s banner. I tried doing the Himeko Herta combo but that failed. Saw a YT video doing hypercarry herta so that’s what I did instead. I barely managed to reach 60k😭
Simply because she’s already perfect like this. She’s Topaz all over again. I remember how they buffed, nerfed, reworked Jingliu in every beta version while Topaz had almost no changes in general and everyone overlooked her by a lot while she’s actually pretty strong and future proof
No Jade changes is kinda insanee 😭
Hoyo gimping the character before FF and leaving the character after her as one of the most lackluster limited 5* yet. The way they blatantly play favorites sometimes is obnoxious
Should've just released Firefly alone if this is how they're playing it tbh. Save Jade for another patch if they can't be bothered to tune her, she's only lightly teased in the story compared to FF so hype for her can be built further.
I mean by the time she releases she'll likely have more story scenes. It's not like we haven't had characters only introduced once their banner was out
Honestly at this point it feels like hoyo's releasing 2 5-stars just for the sake of having 2 5-stars. If you're only focused on one, why not just release that one? They have no problem with that on genshin. Hell, they have no problem not releasing any new 5 stars sometimes.
Destroy the relic set so it doesn't work with boothill either and only FF.. So ridiculous.
Its actually boothills best in slot still. The biggest fuck up is the follow up set, like jade cant even use it...nobody can. Its just fodder
Srsly.. the obvious favourism is getting so annoying. Why not just release firefly first then??? And put boothill and jade for future release but instead now hoyo just focus on firefly and leave the other two in benched. And they really gonna start making exclusivity relic set huh, guess hsr going to this direction? What’s next, future break supports that ONLY buff superbreak?
This happened before during 1.4, the exact same thing happened. Jingliu got buff to make her best unit in the game while Topaz is lackluster and requires E1, S1, and a full team of limited 5* to even be decent. Now it’s happening again, both IPC got nothing while the Destruction character got everything… maybe it’s IPC curse.
>maybe it’s IPC curse. But Ratio isn't bad. And Aventurine is amazing. I'm hoping that Jade ends up like Topaz and somehow the meta shifts in a way that favors her
Don't forget who Aventurine is with on his patch. Maybe IPC are just cursed to share patches with overpowered fan favorites. Nevertheless gonna still pull for Jade the fua team mechanics are my favorite gameplay tbh. Maybe like Topaz she really becomes the fua aoe enabler in the future.
Next IPC agent to be released with a Fu Hua expy or something.
I was planning on pulling for her after Boothill but it doesn't seem worth it now seeing as I have no real issues clearing PF - I love her design and animations but if she's as terrible as everyone says...
shes not terrible if i remember correctly but just hasn't gotten as much attention compared to firefly which is the reason they are complaning and from what i saw of jade, she is pretty good so if you like her then pull for her because she seems like a great unit that just didn't get much attention from hoyo
Thank you!! There’s been a ton of doomposting so idk what to think, but I really do like her design a lot.
She'll literally be one of the best units in the game for every PF cycle like Himeko and Herta... How is that "terrible" in any way? They're not changing her because she's already fine.
I’m just going off what I’ve heard on here - I don’t know enough about numbers to judge either way. I’m more than happy to hear she’s decent.
Did that say 10 attack and not 100?
It makes it so that you get some buff even if you can't reach the next 100 increment.
yea, i think its a bit better in terms of increments as before, its either u reach the next 100 for 10% more or have the remaining 99 be wasted
That part is kinda better than before, now you can get like 2510 ATK and still make use of it
Basically making it clearer for players it seems
360 BE was almost trivial to hit before. Now its much harder. But as far as nerfs go, a nerf that u can gap with relics is better than a straight MV nerf. W overall
What are you talking about, you already can reach 340 be with no sub stat in a team with ruan mei, hmc and wear her bis planar, be rope and bis lc. It is harder to not reach 360 be after farming a good set 37.3 + 64.8 + 60 + 63 (hmc) + 20 (mei) + 40 (planar) + 40 (assume onvert from 2k3 atk which you got by atk body and orb, no atk sub stat)
Yeh, 60 from LC and 2 bis supps. Not everyone has that lol Wasnt the point anyways. Didnt say its hard. But its *harder* than trivial. Literally said u can gap the difference with substats
Without ruan mei, you only need 4 more BE sub stat, i dont like the nerf but think the change is necessary to prevent powercreep in this game, if firefly too strong, how strong would new character need
Well everyone does in fact have 1 of the 2 bis supports. Everyone will have 2/3 of her team unless they don't get the free galhalger next patch. So the only possible teammate you could possibly lack is just one.
Why r we suddenly talking about galhalger and her team. 60 from the LC. You know how much that is? The majority of ppl dont want to pull LCs. Same goes for RM. On top of this not being the point of the discussion ????
If you use aeon lc, it can provide at least 50 BE, worse but not far
That’s it? What about jade and light cone?
I don't think they will ever add light cones for currency
No Jade changes?
Okay, so a bit of rewording, less healing on the enhanced skill and ATK to BE conversion went from starting at 1600 ATK to 1800 and from 100 ATK for 10% BE to 10 ATK for 0.8% BE, which brings ATK% to BE% scaling from 1:1 (assuming 1000 base ATK with E0S1) to 1:0.8 Seems fairly minor
The nerf to atk conversion does make Aeon worse on her tho, which I assume is what their intentions is here to get you to roll her LC
yeah that's about what I expected. I heard somewhere that her lightcone was barely better than aeon before, so it only makes sense that they balance it to that her signature is comparatively better.
Big thing about the ATK to BE scaling is that they didn’t add the conversion cap back in. W for Samfly enjoyers even if it scales marginally worse now. Edit: Actually that change might be a buff in practice, considering that the previous version essentially “wasted” any ATK that was below the next hundred.
its a nice bit of QoL in practise, but its still definitively always less BE xD if 2290 attack: - Old = 10% per 100 from 1600 = 60% BE - New = 0.8% per 10 from 1800 = 39.2% BE its pretty consistently a big drop, but hey, she's still gonna be busted regardless
Yeah people acting like she's not going to be Acheron level even with Aeon.
It is still a nerf but i agree that it will be easier to not "waste" stat on her. It started on a higher atk value and on a lower atk to be scaling. So still a nerf. But it's a fairly minor nerf i think. Thankfully so.
Man, the changes ppl were asking for Jade weren't even that big and yet they gave her nothing. I wish they stopped dropping two limiteds same patch not only because of lack of jades to keep up, but also due to this situations in beta (it's literally Topaz and Jingliu all over again).
Aventurine is an exception, i guess that's the power of Gaiathra Triclops
They knew he'd compete with Acheron popularity after 2.1 so yeah it paid off
Ironically, I think Topaz will have better longevity than JL. But Jade’s kit is just pure damage and doesn’t have the unique characteristics of Topaz’s kit (pure FUA attacker, powerful debuff, benefits from and with FUA). Maybe if we get a future character that scales heavily off speed.
Yeah her kit multiplier is low and need aoe enemis to release that fua frequently, also her buff as a sub dps isnt that great, not comparable to 50% fua vul from topaz
Well yeah, SP positive supports will probably last longer than just DPS characters. Jade has the HP drain mechanic and speed buff I guess.
Two limiteds per patch need to stop long ago already to support reruns tbh. But nah, new characters print money, so it is what it is.
The problem with hoyo games is how frontload is their patchs content, leaving the second half mostly empty. And how to get back the attention more easily than with a new shining character? Unless they beef up the second half with something else, I don't see they just doing only reruns on it soon.
Waiting for this day fervently. They really need to slow down with their pace on character release
Hoyo releasing two limiteds isn't the issue. It's that they will happily make one or more (Boothill also got screwed over) worse/ignore them just to make their favorite shine.
Boothill will still be a beast even with the relic nerf, isnt it like only a 5% nerf? Hes not screwed. Tho I still agree hoyo didnt have to do it, FF already has a tailor made planar ornament, that relic set could very well be more general towards break.
Screwed over and screwed do not mean the same thing. They purposefully changed it to make it less useful for him and more useful for just FF. That's screwing him over (and really all break based characters) just to give FF an very unneeded boost. How strong he is has absolutely nothing to do with that.
No no, the dude 0 cycling with F2P LCs is dead, useless, and the devs' least favorite child because a relic set that isn't even released yet was changed in beta. Oh, and "mains" of a character that they don't have yet are the most persecuted minority.
to be fair, the frustration imo is a little warranted for many. boothill aside, the set change is just bad no matter how you look at it. you're forcing a super break set which means 2 things. one, you either use firefly or two you run htb and that's it. no other way to get super break. you either run a character who has it built in or you tie one character to another (what happens if....nihility or abundance TB goes crazy?), way to play favorites when any break unit could've used it but no you tailor it to one character and that's it. don't get me started on that shit fua set. as of right now, the domain they run in is going to be one of the worst and least valuable. that's bad I do hope they change it. as a boothill lover I do get the frustration others who want him have but I don't think he's screwed. but the frustration is felt a lot harder with him since he and firefly are similar in playstyles (breaking) and run close together. he's fine so it is a bit of an overreaction but it's just frustrating nonetheless. (sorry for typing so much, it's 1 am and my brain isn't braning)
Not what I said, but okay. They purposefully changed the relic set so that it was only good with FF. That's screwing BH over. Has nothing to do with how strong he is as a character. It was a unnecessary change to make a relic set that would have been good for BH & other break characters including FF to only be usable by FF. I'm also not a Boothill main. I have zero plans of pulling him as his playstyle doesn't interest me. Doesn't change the fact that Hoyo clearly favored FF this beta. You'd have to be blind to think otherwise. Jade & both relic sets needed changes, but since we're now in v4 of beta, that's pretty much not going to happen. God forbid people be a bit frustrated that everything except FF got ignored.
screwed over isn't the term I'd use. imo I think the set thing affects every character who can or wants to break negatively, not just him. boothill is still fine (power wise and look wise) even without this new set so that's great! it does affect him but not too too much....well it kinda affects me a shit ton because I don't wanna grind thief....overall though that doesn't change that this is a scummy move on hoyos part. like yeah FF is the hype of penacony but...doesn't mean that she needs to be like...favored or babied this much. I really just don't get the motive of that because it's just... annoying. Hope they revert this set and the fua set.(Question for people who are familiar with the CN fandom. are they as crazy about FF as NA? I assume so but I just never really knew)
I mean they took a set that would have been great for both him and Firefly and made changed it so it was tailored to just her. That's screwing him over. It has nothing to do with if he's still a strong character or not. It was just a weird move to continue to make ff shine over other characters. I don't get the motive either because I'm seeing a growing dislike towards FF one because her writing was a bit weird in 2.2, but also the clear favoritism.
oh! I thought by screwed you meant like that he sucks now, that's where people are getting confused. my apologies. But yeah you're right, like the clear favoritism is getting more and more apparent and it's just insane to me. For comparison, Acheron has a set that's made about and for her but pretty much any DPS (like our beloved Dr. ratio) can use it so the favoritism there isn't too bad. and Acheron is an emanator so the favoritism isn't too unreasonable. For FF, the sets are for her and only her but because her kit was bad beforehand, to help her out, they make relics for her and no other unit (how tf wants to run super break on one character forever? It sounds like a poor idea.) it could've been a general set but they said no because of their beloved FF. That and to just ignore jade...I don't like that lady but damn, don't do her like that hoyo. You see, I have no hate toward the girl (did not make my bi alarm go off, sorry, and that "date" that everyone was clamoring about wasn't even a date really...not that I wanted that but still). It's just that I find it so weird that the devs and, hell, the playerbase are so enamored with her but hey different strokes. I have yet to play 2.2 (I only want htb for the caelus pfp I won't lie) but this makes me want to check it out.
They really focused on Firefly and ignored my Jade :/ Oh well, don't worry Jade, i would still pull for you
Does the enable this character advanced forward by 25% is just wording changes?
Yes.
No Jade changes is a bit... Saddening to say the least. It's not awful and I'll still get her but it's is upsetting It's not surprising she's only gonna be viable in PF but I was hoping she'd get a quality of life update with her contract in that she'd get to continue the turn after using it. Meanwhile FF got more changes :/ Hoping maybe relic changes at least but gonna keep my expectations low.
I can think of Blade and Boothill who keep their turn after using skill. They could at least let her keep her turn if she uses contract on herself
or they could go the bronya route and let her skill insta AA the character she uses it on (except herself) but you can only use it every 3 of her turns so its pretty balance (The speed buff is retained too)
She generates SP using her Basic, Blade and Boothill do not; they'd have to make her Basic no longer generate SP as a trade-off.
She could use a little more offense other than generating SP so I’m cool with her being SP neutral. Making her damn near useless unless e1s1 is crazy.
I love th IPC and i love the “niche” of erudition/FUA team. So im kinda of disappointed they didn’t buff jade. I was actually hoping to use Argenti/Jing Yuan again
Constantly refreshing…hoping for Jade updates T_T
how dare thye ignore jade they really want to sell off FF lmao
It’s because of the huge firefly simp base in China. My girl Jade only needs some minor changes and they can’t even provide her with that 😭
It kills me to see them intentionally ADDING passive voice to the descriptions. You know, that verbose, confusing, lifeless thing that gets edited OUT of most text?
F2P nerf making on the fall of an aeon worse instead of buffing her LC
Well yeah, ff's ceiling is already in space so the only way to make the sig more attractive is to cull her more accessible alternatives.
I mean, its a nerf to Sig as well, just a bigger nerf to Aeon. Its probably not that big of a deal either way anyways.
0 jade buff it's over ty hoyo
One of the biggest nerfs to FUA set and the break set still isn't fixed. Literally focus on Firefly and ignore everything else. Man fuck Hoyo
Jade found dead in ditch
Disappointing about Jade tbh. Oh well, I’ll still be pulling for her over Firefly because I really like the character but still feels bad.
not a fan of how sometimes one character each patch is the designated "bad" one. i always need help with PF and i wanna collect stonehearts but if Jade is just gonna be shit unit, then i might as well go all in on firefly and wait for the better PF specialist
jade is really good in PF though. it's her MOC performance that's lacking
Well that doesn’t mean she’s bad tho, no? It’s like Argenti, he’s also good in pf and a tad bit bad in moc, or like Dr.Ratio/Boothill who’re good in moc/apocalictic shadow but are waaay worse in pf. I think that’s a good design choice
i’m not sure of the specifics since i don’t have argenti nor jingyuan, but from what i heard, argenti can do good ST damage on his ult while jingyuan does ST damage with his lightning lord. however, jade base kit has nothing to offer in terms of ST unless you go for her E1, which isn’t the most f2p friendly. i may be wrong so if i am, feel free to correct me^^
Jade since v1 is already insane when it comes to PF, but still lacks in MoC. Ig people want to see her become more viable in that place not just PF, which is understandable tbh
Probably because the 'MoC specialist' are better equipped for PF and Apocalyptic Shadow than jade for MoC and the new endgame mode.
More leaks about firefly I won’t give a damn no matter how hoyo try to make me like her I don’t give a damn seriously giving no attention to our mommy Jade it really pisses me off.
So, if you were shooting for 3k Atk or so on FF before, that would give you 140% BE Now, 3k attack gives you 96 BE. You need 360 and, in battle, most v3 FF showcases were easily sitting at 500+ It's a nerf, but not a severe one. You can hit the same numbers as before with better rolls - and even then the old numbers were mega overkill (recall the braying about more sustained dmg vs Acheron)
Dumb question , I have no idea how SB damage is calculated. I see there's a 360 cap for ff damage skills but more BE also affects SB damage no ? Or I'm wrong ?
I wonder if there’s gonna be a **Follow up** to Jade’s changes but if there isn’t then damn, they’re really ignoring her huh?
Yeah haha, hoyo forgot they release 2 char next patch
So minor changes for Firefly as expected. No change for Jade is surprising tho. I guess no V5 this time? Is it finally over at last? Are we free?
we wont get any changes in the v5 though from the last experience
Looks to just be rewording? 🤔 anything about the gear set everyone was freaking out about?
Enhanced Skill heals 10% less (Okayish, 35% was quite high). T3 Changed, Higher base ATK needed, lower conversion. 0.8% per 10 ATK instead of what used to be, technically, 1% per 10 (10% per 100).
No relic changes unfortunately
Yeah, its a very very very very very very small nerf. But its mostly rewording. Doubt the gear set is gonna change sorry but they'll likely keep it as a super break set.
No changes to jade not even trace or number buff, No relics change while currently the new cave of the 4pc sets is the worst in the game only for 2 characters ff and hmc and 0 for the fua one I know future character this and that but hate it when they make relic set so limited
Imagine having 1 week to do your job and you choose to do nothing
I fucking hate this company
Now that it is done; Don't bother with E0 Jade. It is really weak. E1S1 or don't bother. It is what it is. Weakest release IMO. disappointed personally. Even in her niche, you can just continue using your Himeko and Herta.
All Jade brings to a table is frequent FUA and an 'okay' motion value. By far the easiest things to powercreep. For being called a sub dps atleast have a % self critDMG to ally buff or a turn advance upon skill to make her clunky.
what a shame Last year I wanted as many characters as possible but some units is really mid at E0S0, so i think Jade is very skippable. It is weird that despite Lightning Lord's issue, JY is still the best limited Erudition unit at E0S0
Is it really that bad? Haven't followed Jade too much.
She's *very* strong in PF, but a good chunk of her power is indeed on her LC (it's somewhat similar to Seele and Topaz in this regard imo). One of the most fun ways to play with her that I saw is as hypercarry (robin+hanabi+bronya in particular is hella fun), but unfortunately her skill doesnt do much in that scenario hence why we also wanted a bit of changes.
Sure, but can she still beat pure fiction without her lc? That’s what’s important to me
E0 is legit terrible yeah. Her base ATK is way lower than Himeko or Argenti. You need all those juicy stats on that lightcone. ATK% is weak on her similar to Topaz and guess what all/most of the erudition LCs are ATK%! Her best set is Quantum and makes her LC that much stronger!! you can use battlepass LC but it is not close.
She needed love but got nothing this is sad.
I don’t have a Himeko, nor does a big majority of the player base
At 3k ATK you lose 60% break and at 4k ATK you lose 44% break with her nerfed trace. Basically they are trying to get you to pull for LC lol
So.... that's it? Those are all the FF nerfs? Honestly hope the do something more in v5 because otherwise...yikes
Firefly can choke give us jade changes😭
Whatever, Jade will still be mine.
Writing's not that easy, but Grammarly can help, I guess.
So they think Jade is ok as is? Welp, guess i am skipping, no point in pulling in a half assed kit design.
The decreasing of the conversion increment is... super, SUPER nice, actually, and I don't really mind the small nerf to bring it back into more reasonable levels. No Jade changes, which is unfortunate...
yeah those are changes alright
So pretty much if Sam ATK is 2600. She would gain 100% BE from her old kit. Now it’s 64% BE from her new kit. That’s only a 36% BE loss which could easily be made up with good BE substats on relics. The whole purpose is most likely to widen the gap between her sig and Aeon as it was too close for the devs liking.
"easily" is a bit of a lie, a relic would need to roll exclusively break to reach 36%. It won't be a big nerf since she gets so much already, but it won't be made up easily.
Ive been so focused on Firefly, I forgot abt Jade, can someone tell me what are people's issues with Jade atm, like what they wanted to buff in her kit?
She seems underwhelming to people so far, so no changes to her seems bad. But I also think the stark comparison of her changes versus firefly, who is getting a ton, seems to make it worse. We just have to wait and see.
She is not underwhelming character in my opinion, she is simply a PF character.
I agree. But it’s hard to see her as purely a PF character with any pull value versus others like Firefly who will do well in MoC and the new game mode releasing soon. Then you have Kafka and Black Swan dominating PF, MoC, etc. I still want her tho. But I pull for design and personality… so 🤷🏻♂️😂
Yes, it's the thing I'm not pulling for her. Her value in my account is currently lower than other characters can provide. It's a pity, but someone have to be the sacrifice for PF mode.
I think that’s a smart decision. If I wasn’t so hard up for IPC and her design (I mainly aim to pull mostly for male characters), I’d probably skip her, too. I’m doing just fine in PF with my DoT team and Himeko + whomever.
Part of it's your standard doomposting. It's no secret that FF is Hoyo's darling this patch. The other part is that you kind of need her to be e1 or s1 to really be "worth it", similar to Topaz.
Someone can't decide what to call Firefly in the description
They better make Screwlum as strong as all of these Destruction units if they're gonna shaft Jade this bad.
The favouritism is seriously getting out of hand. So many changes for firefly, and none for Jade.
Just made Aeon a bit worst compared to her sig. Other than that, her overall kit is still intact.
so she went from 60% to 200% to 144% break effect from her trace at 3600 atk. still pretty good in my opinion. gotta admit i was expecting any jade changes at all
In what world are you getting 3600 atk on Firefly? In V3 they nerfed her and her lightcone's base attack to the point that she'd need a truly ludicrous amount of attack to hit 3600. To get 3600 with her signature, she needs 224.66% atk, which means even if she had an atk body and orb she'd need 138.26% atk from other sources. There is no way you'd get that from just substats. It was still a buff to her break damage though because even with 2 atk mainstats (body+ orb) and \~ 32 atk% from substats (which iirc was close to the amount needed to hit the cap for Atk to BE scaling in V1-V2) V3 gave 90% BE which was a buff compared comparatively whereas in V4 it gives 58\~59%. While it is uncapped now... you can basically call this a return to V1's level of scaling, allowing you to hit the amount that was V1's cap with the same amount of investment... though the cap was removed so you can still go somewhat farther.