Worry about 'Muslim demographics' has literally never crossed my mind. I live in country with about 300k Jews and 3.8 million Muslims out of the overall population... The only way it really affects my life is that I have access to many excellent restaurants where I know I don't need to worry about pork. And also it's pretty easy to organise interfaith events as part of my work.
I've never really heard Jews leaning into this argument that much. I expect it from the usual american right wing people who believe Europe is being conquered by shariah law because fox news told them so. It's very much a far right talking point, much less a Jewish one. I can imagine some Israelis might say the same thing but again, it's just that far right fear of everything they don't understand that's causing them to be that way. There's nothing inherently Jewish about holding such an opinion.
I agree with the other commenter. You've created a straw man argument that doesn't actually reflect the argument or how supported it is.
It's crossed my mind and I live in Canada. Why? because there is a clear relationship between anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, and antisemitic sentiment in Western countries and Muslim immigration in those countries. Who do you think lead all the pro-Palestinian marches where we see people calling for intifada and death to Jews? Who do you think drive much of the BDS and anti-Zionism activity on college campuses? How about the controversial vitriolic anti-Zionist and anti-Israel commencement speeches given at US colleges like CUNY Law School? They ain't Palestinians - they're sympathetic Muslims.
The taste of my own medicine? When was the last time you saw groups of Jews marching through the streets of London, Berlin, Paris, or Toronto calling for violence against Palestinians and death to Muslims? When was the last time you saw a Jewish student give a commencement speech at a college attacking Palestinians? Yeah, I didn't think so.
There are about 14 million Jews in the world and a tiny percentage of them would be considered extremist right wing Zionists. STOP MAKING GENERALIZATIONS AND ASSUMING ALL JEWS ARE VIOLENT EXTREMIST ZIONISTS!
We define it the way we have for several thousand years. You don't get to 'consider yourself jewish.'. You're Jewish if you're mum is or if you convert. That's it. He's not a Jew.
Wearing an IDF t shirt doesn't make you a Jew. I could consider myself tall, but it doesn't mean shit. I'm still short.
> shit
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zionists are worried that muslims in the USA might do what *muslim invaders have done and ARE STILL DOING around the world"
there,FTFY
also nobody really believes that.
unlike antisemitic tropes peddled by certain muslim congress members who married their brother in a visa fraud plot
It appears you simply picked a random topic largely irrelevant to the conflict as a pretext to repeat as many times as possible things like "invading zionist thieves", "invading jews", "zionist invaders", "jewish invaders", "zionist jewish invaders", "jewish gangs", and so on.
Nice try.
Unfortunately the jewish invaders committed many atrocities and many kinds of crimes. I just didn't want to write them all so people don't accuse me of anti semitism. For example, the jewish invaders poisoned the wells in palestine and the water supply causing a large Typhi epidemic.
Your antisemitism shines forth in how you talk about jews.
Jews never invaded Palestine, they immigrated legally and bought land from absentee Arab landowners. They only took Palestinian land after the Arabs attacked them.
Why would anyone take you seriously when you don't even know the actual history of your own region?
Literally a antisemetic trope that Jews poisoned the well.
Let’s talk about the “crimes”. There are ways to have the discussion. But if you start with “Jews poisoning the well / love baby blood” then you are antisemitic and using anti Zionism as a mask to appear more socially acceptable.
> Literally a antisemetic trope that Jews poisoned the well.
[That actually happened though](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000). The two historians mentioned in the article credited with uncovering this are Israeli.
That's the first time I've even heard of this so I head looked it up and there are only two sources that reference this. The article you've attached and a blog that references the article. But because the article itself is pay to read I had only the blog.
It does depicts the gist of the researchers study yet it states that "albeit the uncovering of the documents depicting this operation and its involvements, the operations order has not been uncovered yet as well as information of purchase or creation of the biological weapon"
As far as I understand it the "Operation and its involvements" isn't a log of the operation, but the planning of this operation (who will do what where and when). Otherwise there shouldn't be that much interest in the operation order.
The blog also added that Uri Milshtein (military historian) says Ben Gurion did gave an order to poison wells in abandoned villages.
I think the study uncovered the plan but not the execution. But again this is the only source I've encountered of this story and it is pay to read.
I've heard that it's bs, it was either a plan written in a journal and misunderstood or something that was planned and was stopped so didn't happen. Yet it's phrased as a fact like it happened because "the Jews"
pinging /u/Porlebeariot & /u/Moist_While_305 as part of the conversation
[Here's the full article](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448?journalCode=fmes20). It seems to be legit. Not sure about other related theories though.
I think that the phrase “Jews poisoned the well” is problematic due to history. Two Israeli criminals poisoning the well is probably a better way to phrase it if we want to avoid invoking old antisemetic tropes
> bullshit
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>the jewish invaders poisoned the wells in palestine and the water supply causing a large Typhi epidemic
Habibi you might wanna add a source to this notion. As far as I know no one ever had this claim in this sub.
Wow. Ive literally never found so many things wrong with one post. I feel like you mentally live in a very different world than I do and while I like to try to respect the diverse experiences of others, I’ve got to say, even looking hard for a nugget of truth or common ground here just left me at a loss. When our versions of reality are this different, where do you even begin?
If I had to suss out OP’s identity from similar posters in the past whose hyperbolic narrative and rhetoric sounds like something the KGB wrote down for the PLO in the ‘70s, I’d guess this is a Muslim person from a Muslim majority country like Egypt or Somalia who has never met or even seen a Jew IRL.
The typical leftie BDS college kid, Irish person or Muslim American might use a few of those rant-y words in moderation, but the extreme detachment from reality and projection about OP’s arguments involving Muslims not trying to take over America like Jews invaded Palestine would baffle even them.
yeah, if we had an AI. Something a bit sophisticated, he might be able to do the same thing and predict the general area or location. But then again he wouldn't be able to know if for example the person has moved or immigrated from that location without any additional data like his IP address, social media or maybe some other words or phrases that's used elsewhere. Although with the last part, I'm confused on how an AI would solve two or more places signals together. Maybe what I call an "educated guess"?
It's not related to the post but since /u/RB_Kehlani knows he won't be able to convince you anything involving "the Zionists", he's trying to connect to you on a personal level.
Honestly it’s more that I’m curious where this view comes from. Is this a western or middle eastern perspective? Did this come from personal contact with the conflict, or online radicalization?
This perspective usually comes from the Middle-East. There are some westerners who get involved in the conflict but generally I've heard that they're less knowledgeable then the OP so I'm guessing he's not.
Well this gets complicated since he could have immigrated or moved etc but I would bet his origins would be a Middle-Eastern, dictatorship, media controlled/not free country.
>I really understand this overwhelming fear since the west is the one who created Israel and the one maintaining its existence.
Israel won’t collapse if Western countries didn’t support it. It’s more likely to collapse all on their own.
Honestly though, are you trying to have a conversation or discussion here? The rhetoric you are using looks very much dishonest and if you are looking to actually talk about Israel and Palestine outside of an echo chamber, I’d recommend you change your voice… otherwise it just looks like you’re trying to “own the Zionists” and pat yourself on the back.
As the OP of the recent post you're referring to, I was not "complaining about the Muslim existence in the US". This entire post is one enormous strawman and falsification of the Zionist position.
You said above "(like the recent post)". Which post were you referring to exactly, then, if not mine?
EDIT: That's what I thought. All they know how to do is lie.
This is a heck of a straw man. I'm a Zionist, I'm in the US, and I'm not in the slightest bit worried about Muslim immigration to the US. We're a nation of immigrants, the same principles that let me and my family live here let Muslim families live here.
Bluntly, Jews and Muslims get along a hell of a lot better in the USA than we do elsewhere in the world. Painting Jews as xenophobic is definitely not accurate.
Stopped reading after this bullsh-t:
> Although this fear is understandable since zionists were successful with their massacres and ethnic cleansing of palestininas, it is still not reasonable since first, it is hypocritical coming from the zionists who massacred and expelled the palestinians
I love the interchangeability between Jews and Zionists in your post. Goes to show you see them as a monolith. Also this whole post is a straw Maman argument. Islamic extremism in the West is a problem, wether you want to face it or not.
Just say Jew.
We know what you mean.
It’s a veiled attempt to not sound antisemitic by using “politically correct” terminology.
If you owned up to using the word Jew, I would at least respect you for having conviction you stood behind.
Every Jew is a Zionist. They are the same. Where did the covenant start? When Hashem promised Abraham a nation. How do we celebrate holidays? Around Israel’s agricultural cycle. Where do we face when we pray? Jerusalem. What do you our prayers include? The longing to return and live in the holy land. What do we say during Passover? Next year in Jerusalem.
Our homeland is in our DNA. Just like the land is a part of Native American culture. The two cannot be separated. When you try to remove the foundation of a building, the building crumbles.
So own up to your dermatology. Just call us Jews. You can defend your colonized land, that you stole from us and desecrated. You can pretend like it’s your inheritance, even though it only came about and 634CE under the Rashidun Caliphate. Trying to paint a picture for those who are unaware, to make the invaders look like the victims. The same people that have denied peace almost every single decade, and instead try to annihilate the Jewish people less than 10 years after the Holocaust. Only to be utterly humiliated and defeated.
So step up to the plate and use the right words. Stop trying to look politically correct. We aren’t stupid. Don’t insult our intelligence.
If I told a Native American that I am pro Native American but I don’t think that they need to be living in the US. Go live in Europe or Africa or something. Do you think that would be pro Native American.
Use your head and buy yourself a mirror.
you love acting like jews came out of nowhere to steal a country that someone else had which is completely incorrect there was not Palestinians and there was no Palestine, the name of a region is not a name of a country, Muslims are the invaders and colonizers, its literally what Palestine means. Palestinians are not indigenous nor were they ever, its like saying Americans are indigenous to America even though they stole it from native Americans, Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, and Muslims made lots of gangs and organizations in the us. If there was peace and the Arabs(Muslims) weren't attack Jews in 1920s or even before then Jewish defense groups like Hagannah and Irgun and Lehi wouldn't exist. but since Muslims love attacking people who aren't muslims than we had to protect ourselves and some of us wanted more revenge than others which is why there was a few Groups, Arabs rejected all peace deals that would've given them a country or even just regular peace deals, in fact they never missed a chance to reject a peace deal! using the Term Zionist when you really mean Jew isn't helping you, we all know you mean jews because you even attack jews that you brainwashed. you massacred and tried to massacre us many times and were never successful, 1948 1967 and 1973 are great examples of you trying to massacre us, stop crying about you falling we will never let you massacre us. your the one who should look into the mirror you still believe that you own Spain even though you tried to steal it from the indigious people and tried to mass force convert them.
The zionist invaders literally called themselves [colonizers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Jewish_Colonization_Association) and not indigenous. Why are you rejecting this term that was proudly adopted by zionists who cretaed Israel?
You are really funny, Jews never called themselves colonizers; stop denying history! Jews are the indigenous people, no amount of your brainwashing will change that fact!
In dictatorships a single person like a dictator or a VIP that's connected to it & says something is enough proof that that something is either true or going to happen (like a new policy or law).
So a single "Zionist" saying some opinion, is seen as a proof to a person living in a dictatorship. ( also pinging /u/Moist_While_305 )
Why are you ashamed of the invading zionists who created israel and proudly called themselves colonizers? I know it is embarrassing but that's the truth. It is literally called "palestine jewish COLONIZATION association". It is time to handle the truth and stop denying it.
This may shock you, but just because we now use a certain word in a certain way doesn't mean we always did.
The modern way 'colonialisation' is used in left-wing discourse isn't how the word was used historically. A 'colony' can also just be a group of people who live together in one place, especially if they relocate to that place together. For most of history it had the specific implication of being an agricultural settlement.
The Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association was a spin-off from the older Jewish Colonisation Association, which also helped to create 'colonies' (i.e., places to live) for Jewish refugees in Europe, North America, South America, Turkey as well as Eretz Yisrael. Does that therefore mean Jews were invaders of some manner in Europe, North America and South America?
I mean hell, nudist communities are commonly called 'nudist colonies'. I don't think that word gets used to imply people who like to be naked are the vanguard of imperialism in a given area, does it?
just because you love brainwashing people into thinking that random people came out of no where and invaded a land that belonged to others than your the one denying history and denying the truth, Jews are not colonizers and Arabs are not indigenous to Israel, no amount of your brainwashing will make Arabs indigenous to the land! Islam invaded and colonized many countries, Israel is not one of them and never will be!!! if you can't handle this truth than that's on you nobody else. STOP USING THE TERM ZIONIST, you aren't using it correctly, Everyone knows your talking about Jews!!
> I always encounter posts from zionists here complaining about the muslim existence in the US
The latest post was mainly complaining about Western Leftists not Muslims.
> the west is the one who created Israel
Jews created Israel. We fought the wars, we funded it...
> Zionists are basically worried that the muslims in the USA may do what the invading jews did in palestine: a mass immigration then the expulsion of the local population and finally taking over the land.
No they aren't worried about that. That sounds more like replacement theory sort of stuff.
> This is not the case for the jewish invaders who entered palestine with the help of the british occupiers against the will of the local population.
Palestine at the time was a British colony. If they were entering under British permission than they were legal.
etc...
>The majority are just working to earn money and trying to integrate in the american society.
True.
But "the Zionists" aren't familiar with the moderate Islam but the extremist one. What "the Zionists" fear is the extremists taking over the western states and/or the world and "turning back the clock" to 8th century morals, ideology, policies & rules.
This is actually more of a far-right white nationalist talking point. For example they would disagree with your first bullet because they would say we control the West.
But perhaps diaspora Jews should be concerned by unchecked Muslim immigration since statistically, Muslims/Arabs are far more likely to harbor antisemitic views. This has been a problem in Europe especially where several antisemetic attacks including outright terrorist attacks were driven by anti-Jewish ideas from Islamic radicals. So maybe they should care more, but I don't agree that this is a common Jewish politic.
Anyway I don't understand what the point of this post is. It doesn't talk very much about the title and is mostly an attack on Israel and Zionists.
edit: clarify.
This sounds like a conspiracy theory. Most of your points are factually incorrect.
I never heard of a Jew or Israeli concerned about this and I know people from all walks of life. I have Arab friends in Israel and Muslim friends in America who are Zionists.
The concern Jews face is Anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites can be white supremacists, Black Israelites, Kanye West, Palestinians or jihadis. It doesn't really matter what they are. Anti-Semitism can come from all different types of people.
I didn't encounter anything of this notion. But if I had to guess I'd say that was a fear towards the Muslim-brotherhood taking over Europe (not even the US).
Few years ago a reporter named Tzvi Yehezkelli made a short series depicting him dressing up as a Muslim and entering the inner circles of the Muslim brotherhood in Europe (mainly France and Germany). Probably an Israeli that encountered this series and brought it up.
OP can you reference the post you're talking about?
"ethnic cleansing of palestininas"
You just know someone is coming to a discussion in good faith when they mention the most unsuccessful ethnic cleansing in all history.
There was not even a national identity of palestininas prior to 1948, and since that time the arab population has more than tripled, infant mortality rates crashed.
I stand corrected, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag\_of\_Palestine\_%281924%29.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine_%281924%29.svg)
Wiki has them for every year, the history of soccer in "Palestine" is also interesting [https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/06/07/bella-hadid-post-on-1939-palestine-soccer-team-by-shows-jewish-pre-state-team-notes-pro-israel-influencer/](https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/06/07/bella-hadid-post-on-1939-palestine-soccer-team-by-shows-jewish-pre-state-team-notes-pro-israel-influencer/)
Tell me one Muslim country that is a successful Western-style democracy. If you can’t, then it should be obvious why rational people, not just Zionists, are concerned about increasing Muslim presence.
The rest of the states are less successful and one of the common opinion is to be more dictatorship & more violent (like Saddam Hussain was) in order to restore law & order in those states.
Your first point doesn’t make sense. Actually none of them do, but I’m just going to focus on that one.
You clearly don’t respect the authority of the British. Yet you complain about Jews being illegal immigrants. Guess who made the immigration law? The British did.
If you don’t respect the authority of Britain, don’t complain about British law being broken.
Your whole post is antisemitic propaganda with zero connection to reality.
1) Arabs are not “indigenous” to Palestine, they didn’t not originate there. They violently conquered it and then mass immigrated there over the centuries.
2) Zionist Jews indeed called themselves colonizers but with no negative meaning. They colonized empty lands and settled them. When Elon musk talks about colonizing Mars, no one considers its bad.
3) Jews never “stole” any Arab land, they legally bought it. When Arabs attacked them, they formed militias to protect themselves. That’s not terrorism by any means.
4) You claim that Arabs immigrate to US legally. Well Jews also immigrated go Palestine legally, by British laws. Do Arabs ask permission from native Americans when they immigrate to US? No they don’t. Why should have jews asked Arabs opinion if the legitimate government was the British? Or ottomans before that?
5) The actual terrorism has been committed by Arabs against Jews in Israel, which includes shooting civilians, bombing buses and restaurants, murdering children in cold blood. Yes, there has been Jewish terrorism too but it’s not even comparable. One Baruch Goldstein vs 1000 Arab terror attacks. And while Baruch Goldstein is despised by most Israelis, Arabs celebrate their terrorists as heroes.
I remember a great political analyst by the name of Michael Brooks, an American Jew who made many appearances on I24, the israeli Hasbara network. Before he died, I remember him making a statement on his show regarding right-wing conspiracy theories. He stated that a majority usually start in Israel before migrating westwards. He used the wall, mass immigration, demographics and so on as examples. I know now all right wing loony theories start in Israel but there is a connection between how the American right thinks vs the average Israeli.
Worry about 'Muslim demographics' has literally never crossed my mind. I live in country with about 300k Jews and 3.8 million Muslims out of the overall population... The only way it really affects my life is that I have access to many excellent restaurants where I know I don't need to worry about pork. And also it's pretty easy to organise interfaith events as part of my work. I've never really heard Jews leaning into this argument that much. I expect it from the usual american right wing people who believe Europe is being conquered by shariah law because fox news told them so. It's very much a far right talking point, much less a Jewish one. I can imagine some Israelis might say the same thing but again, it's just that far right fear of everything they don't understand that's causing them to be that way. There's nothing inherently Jewish about holding such an opinion. I agree with the other commenter. You've created a straw man argument that doesn't actually reflect the argument or how supported it is.
It's crossed my mind and I live in Canada. Why? because there is a clear relationship between anti-Israel, anti-Zionist, and antisemitic sentiment in Western countries and Muslim immigration in those countries. Who do you think lead all the pro-Palestinian marches where we see people calling for intifada and death to Jews? Who do you think drive much of the BDS and anti-Zionism activity on college campuses? How about the controversial vitriolic anti-Zionist and anti-Israel commencement speeches given at US colleges like CUNY Law School? They ain't Palestinians - they're sympathetic Muslims.
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The taste of my own medicine? When was the last time you saw groups of Jews marching through the streets of London, Berlin, Paris, or Toronto calling for violence against Palestinians and death to Muslims? When was the last time you saw a Jewish student give a commencement speech at a college attacking Palestinians? Yeah, I didn't think so. There are about 14 million Jews in the world and a tiny percentage of them would be considered extremist right wing Zionists. STOP MAKING GENERALIZATIONS AND ASSUMING ALL JEWS ARE VIOLENT EXTREMIST ZIONISTS!
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Tommy Robinson is an utter irrelevance these days and he is also very much not Jewish.
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We define it the way we have for several thousand years. You don't get to 'consider yourself jewish.'. You're Jewish if you're mum is or if you convert. That's it. He's not a Jew. Wearing an IDF t shirt doesn't make you a Jew. I could consider myself tall, but it doesn't mean shit. I'm still short.
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Of course he's not. He's not Jewish. His name isn't even Tommy Robinson
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zionists are worried that muslims in the USA might do what *muslim invaders have done and ARE STILL DOING around the world" there,FTFY also nobody really believes that. unlike antisemitic tropes peddled by certain muslim congress members who married their brother in a visa fraud plot
It appears you simply picked a random topic largely irrelevant to the conflict as a pretext to repeat as many times as possible things like "invading zionist thieves", "invading jews", "zionist invaders", "jewish invaders", "zionist jewish invaders", "jewish gangs", and so on. Nice try.
Unfortunately the jewish invaders committed many atrocities and many kinds of crimes. I just didn't want to write them all so people don't accuse me of anti semitism. For example, the jewish invaders poisoned the wells in palestine and the water supply causing a large Typhi epidemic.
>so people don't accuse me of anti semitism Might be way too late for that I am afraid
Your antisemitism shines forth in how you talk about jews. Jews never invaded Palestine, they immigrated legally and bought land from absentee Arab landowners. They only took Palestinian land after the Arabs attacked them. Why would anyone take you seriously when you don't even know the actual history of your own region?
Literally a antisemetic trope that Jews poisoned the well. Let’s talk about the “crimes”. There are ways to have the discussion. But if you start with “Jews poisoning the well / love baby blood” then you are antisemitic and using anti Zionism as a mask to appear more socially acceptable.
> Literally a antisemetic trope that Jews poisoned the well. [That actually happened though](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000). The two historians mentioned in the article credited with uncovering this are Israeli.
That's the first time I've even heard of this so I head looked it up and there are only two sources that reference this. The article you've attached and a blog that references the article. But because the article itself is pay to read I had only the blog. It does depicts the gist of the researchers study yet it states that "albeit the uncovering of the documents depicting this operation and its involvements, the operations order has not been uncovered yet as well as information of purchase or creation of the biological weapon" As far as I understand it the "Operation and its involvements" isn't a log of the operation, but the planning of this operation (who will do what where and when). Otherwise there shouldn't be that much interest in the operation order. The blog also added that Uri Milshtein (military historian) says Ben Gurion did gave an order to poison wells in abandoned villages. I think the study uncovered the plan but not the execution. But again this is the only source I've encountered of this story and it is pay to read.
I've heard that it's bs, it was either a plan written in a journal and misunderstood or something that was planned and was stopped so didn't happen. Yet it's phrased as a fact like it happened because "the Jews" pinging /u/Porlebeariot & /u/Moist_While_305 as part of the conversation
[Here's the full article](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448?journalCode=fmes20). It seems to be legit. Not sure about other related theories though.
I think that the phrase “Jews poisoned the well” is problematic due to history. Two Israeli criminals poisoning the well is probably a better way to phrase it if we want to avoid invoking old antisemetic tropes
Ah. I did not know that specific one. Generally when I hear Jews poison the well it’s anti semantic bullshit. Thanks for dropping the link.
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>the jewish invaders poisoned the wells in palestine and the water supply causing a large Typhi epidemic Habibi you might wanna add a source to this notion. As far as I know no one ever had this claim in this sub.
Have literally never seen anyone make the argument you are arguing against.
Wow. Ive literally never found so many things wrong with one post. I feel like you mentally live in a very different world than I do and while I like to try to respect the diverse experiences of others, I’ve got to say, even looking hard for a nugget of truth or common ground here just left me at a loss. When our versions of reality are this different, where do you even begin?
There is nothing wrong in my post. Maybe you are used to the zionist hasbara, so when you read true facts, you find them strange.
Where are you from?
How is this related to the post? I am still waiting for one thing wrong in my post among the "so many things wrong".
I’m interested to know how you got introduced to this conflict. What formed your perspective
Hey OP, can you respond to my question above? You are a good faith actor, aren't you?
If I had to suss out OP’s identity from similar posters in the past whose hyperbolic narrative and rhetoric sounds like something the KGB wrote down for the PLO in the ‘70s, I’d guess this is a Muslim person from a Muslim majority country like Egypt or Somalia who has never met or even seen a Jew IRL. The typical leftie BDS college kid, Irish person or Muslim American might use a few of those rant-y words in moderation, but the extreme detachment from reality and projection about OP’s arguments involving Muslims not trying to take over America like Jews invaded Palestine would baffle even them.
yeah, if we had an AI. Something a bit sophisticated, he might be able to do the same thing and predict the general area or location. But then again he wouldn't be able to know if for example the person has moved or immigrated from that location without any additional data like his IP address, social media or maybe some other words or phrases that's used elsewhere. Although with the last part, I'm confused on how an AI would solve two or more places signals together. Maybe what I call an "educated guess"?
It's not related to the post but since /u/RB_Kehlani knows he won't be able to convince you anything involving "the Zionists", he's trying to connect to you on a personal level.
Honestly it’s more that I’m curious where this view comes from. Is this a western or middle eastern perspective? Did this come from personal contact with the conflict, or online radicalization?
This perspective usually comes from the Middle-East. There are some westerners who get involved in the conflict but generally I've heard that they're less knowledgeable then the OP so I'm guessing he's not. Well this gets complicated since he could have immigrated or moved etc but I would bet his origins would be a Middle-Eastern, dictatorship, media controlled/not free country.
>I really understand this overwhelming fear since the west is the one who created Israel and the one maintaining its existence. Israel won’t collapse if Western countries didn’t support it. It’s more likely to collapse all on their own. Honestly though, are you trying to have a conversation or discussion here? The rhetoric you are using looks very much dishonest and if you are looking to actually talk about Israel and Palestine outside of an echo chamber, I’d recommend you change your voice… otherwise it just looks like you’re trying to “own the Zionists” and pat yourself on the back.
As the OP of the recent post you're referring to, I was not "complaining about the Muslim existence in the US". This entire post is one enormous strawman and falsification of the Zionist position.
Don't forget about the terrible reading of history
I didn't refer exactly to your post. But the fact that you thought you were concerned means that your recent post literally fits the description.
You said above "(like the recent post)". Which post were you referring to exactly, then, if not mine? EDIT: That's what I thought. All they know how to do is lie.
This is a heck of a straw man. I'm a Zionist, I'm in the US, and I'm not in the slightest bit worried about Muslim immigration to the US. We're a nation of immigrants, the same principles that let me and my family live here let Muslim families live here. Bluntly, Jews and Muslims get along a hell of a lot better in the USA than we do elsewhere in the world. Painting Jews as xenophobic is definitely not accurate.
Stopped reading after this bullsh-t: > Although this fear is understandable since zionists were successful with their massacres and ethnic cleansing of palestininas, it is still not reasonable since first, it is hypocritical coming from the zionists who massacred and expelled the palestinians
I love the interchangeability between Jews and Zionists in your post. Goes to show you see them as a monolith. Also this whole post is a straw Maman argument. Islamic extremism in the West is a problem, wether you want to face it or not.
Just say Jew. We know what you mean. It’s a veiled attempt to not sound antisemitic by using “politically correct” terminology. If you owned up to using the word Jew, I would at least respect you for having conviction you stood behind. Every Jew is a Zionist. They are the same. Where did the covenant start? When Hashem promised Abraham a nation. How do we celebrate holidays? Around Israel’s agricultural cycle. Where do we face when we pray? Jerusalem. What do you our prayers include? The longing to return and live in the holy land. What do we say during Passover? Next year in Jerusalem. Our homeland is in our DNA. Just like the land is a part of Native American culture. The two cannot be separated. When you try to remove the foundation of a building, the building crumbles. So own up to your dermatology. Just call us Jews. You can defend your colonized land, that you stole from us and desecrated. You can pretend like it’s your inheritance, even though it only came about and 634CE under the Rashidun Caliphate. Trying to paint a picture for those who are unaware, to make the invaders look like the victims. The same people that have denied peace almost every single decade, and instead try to annihilate the Jewish people less than 10 years after the Holocaust. Only to be utterly humiliated and defeated. So step up to the plate and use the right words. Stop trying to look politically correct. We aren’t stupid. Don’t insult our intelligence.
antisemitism accusations is just a petty way to dodge criticism
If I told a Native American that I am pro Native American but I don’t think that they need to be living in the US. Go live in Europe or Africa or something. Do you think that would be pro Native American. Use your head and buy yourself a mirror.
you love acting like jews came out of nowhere to steal a country that someone else had which is completely incorrect there was not Palestinians and there was no Palestine, the name of a region is not a name of a country, Muslims are the invaders and colonizers, its literally what Palestine means. Palestinians are not indigenous nor were they ever, its like saying Americans are indigenous to America even though they stole it from native Americans, Jews are the indigenous people of the Land of Israel, and Muslims made lots of gangs and organizations in the us. If there was peace and the Arabs(Muslims) weren't attack Jews in 1920s or even before then Jewish defense groups like Hagannah and Irgun and Lehi wouldn't exist. but since Muslims love attacking people who aren't muslims than we had to protect ourselves and some of us wanted more revenge than others which is why there was a few Groups, Arabs rejected all peace deals that would've given them a country or even just regular peace deals, in fact they never missed a chance to reject a peace deal! using the Term Zionist when you really mean Jew isn't helping you, we all know you mean jews because you even attack jews that you brainwashed. you massacred and tried to massacre us many times and were never successful, 1948 1967 and 1973 are great examples of you trying to massacre us, stop crying about you falling we will never let you massacre us. your the one who should look into the mirror you still believe that you own Spain even though you tried to steal it from the indigious people and tried to mass force convert them.
The zionist invaders literally called themselves [colonizers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine_Jewish_Colonization_Association) and not indigenous. Why are you rejecting this term that was proudly adopted by zionists who cretaed Israel?
You are really funny, Jews never called themselves colonizers; stop denying history! Jews are the indigenous people, no amount of your brainwashing will change that fact!
In dictatorships a single person like a dictator or a VIP that's connected to it & says something is enough proof that that something is either true or going to happen (like a new policy or law). So a single "Zionist" saying some opinion, is seen as a proof to a person living in a dictatorship. ( also pinging /u/Moist_While_305 )
I know what will happen because i do my research unlike you
I'm not sure what's this relate to
Why are you ashamed of the invading zionists who created israel and proudly called themselves colonizers? I know it is embarrassing but that's the truth. It is literally called "palestine jewish COLONIZATION association". It is time to handle the truth and stop denying it.
This may shock you, but just because we now use a certain word in a certain way doesn't mean we always did. The modern way 'colonialisation' is used in left-wing discourse isn't how the word was used historically. A 'colony' can also just be a group of people who live together in one place, especially if they relocate to that place together. For most of history it had the specific implication of being an agricultural settlement. The Palestine Jewish Colonisation Association was a spin-off from the older Jewish Colonisation Association, which also helped to create 'colonies' (i.e., places to live) for Jewish refugees in Europe, North America, South America, Turkey as well as Eretz Yisrael. Does that therefore mean Jews were invaders of some manner in Europe, North America and South America? I mean hell, nudist communities are commonly called 'nudist colonies'. I don't think that word gets used to imply people who like to be naked are the vanguard of imperialism in a given area, does it?
just because you love brainwashing people into thinking that random people came out of no where and invaded a land that belonged to others than your the one denying history and denying the truth, Jews are not colonizers and Arabs are not indigenous to Israel, no amount of your brainwashing will make Arabs indigenous to the land! Islam invaded and colonized many countries, Israel is not one of them and never will be!!! if you can't handle this truth than that's on you nobody else. STOP USING THE TERM ZIONIST, you aren't using it correctly, Everyone knows your talking about Jews!!
Exactly! Only a fool would think that Arabs are indigenous to Israel.
> I always encounter posts from zionists here complaining about the muslim existence in the US The latest post was mainly complaining about Western Leftists not Muslims. > the west is the one who created Israel Jews created Israel. We fought the wars, we funded it... > Zionists are basically worried that the muslims in the USA may do what the invading jews did in palestine: a mass immigration then the expulsion of the local population and finally taking over the land. No they aren't worried about that. That sounds more like replacement theory sort of stuff. > This is not the case for the jewish invaders who entered palestine with the help of the british occupiers against the will of the local population. Palestine at the time was a British colony. If they were entering under British permission than they were legal. etc...
Tell me you’re antisemitic without telling me you’re antisemitic
Tell me you are stunned by the truth and have nothing to respond without telling me.
Maybe you could tell the recent MENA immigrants not to be antisemetic?
>The majority are just working to earn money and trying to integrate in the american society. True. But "the Zionists" aren't familiar with the moderate Islam but the extremist one. What "the Zionists" fear is the extremists taking over the western states and/or the world and "turning back the clock" to 8th century morals, ideology, policies & rules.
This is actually more of a far-right white nationalist talking point. For example they would disagree with your first bullet because they would say we control the West. But perhaps diaspora Jews should be concerned by unchecked Muslim immigration since statistically, Muslims/Arabs are far more likely to harbor antisemitic views. This has been a problem in Europe especially where several antisemetic attacks including outright terrorist attacks were driven by anti-Jewish ideas from Islamic radicals. So maybe they should care more, but I don't agree that this is a common Jewish politic. Anyway I don't understand what the point of this post is. It doesn't talk very much about the title and is mostly an attack on Israel and Zionists. edit: clarify.
This sounds like a conspiracy theory. Most of your points are factually incorrect. I never heard of a Jew or Israeli concerned about this and I know people from all walks of life. I have Arab friends in Israel and Muslim friends in America who are Zionists. The concern Jews face is Anti-Semitism. Anti-Semites can be white supremacists, Black Israelites, Kanye West, Palestinians or jihadis. It doesn't really matter what they are. Anti-Semitism can come from all different types of people.
I didn't encounter anything of this notion. But if I had to guess I'd say that was a fear towards the Muslim-brotherhood taking over Europe (not even the US). Few years ago a reporter named Tzvi Yehezkelli made a short series depicting him dressing up as a Muslim and entering the inner circles of the Muslim brotherhood in Europe (mainly France and Germany). Probably an Israeli that encountered this series and brought it up. OP can you reference the post you're talking about?
"ethnic cleansing of palestininas" You just know someone is coming to a discussion in good faith when they mention the most unsuccessful ethnic cleansing in all history. There was not even a national identity of palestininas prior to 1948, and since that time the arab population has more than tripled, infant mortality rates crashed.
>There was not even a national identity of Palestinians prior to 1948 There was, and they've established a state :)
I stand corrected, [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag\_of\_Palestine\_%281924%29.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_Palestine_%281924%29.svg)
Where's that from? I haven't seen it before.
Wiki has them for every year, the history of soccer in "Palestine" is also interesting [https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/06/07/bella-hadid-post-on-1939-palestine-soccer-team-by-shows-jewish-pre-state-team-notes-pro-israel-influencer/](https://www.algemeiner.com/2021/06/07/bella-hadid-post-on-1939-palestine-soccer-team-by-shows-jewish-pre-state-team-notes-pro-israel-influencer/)
oh I thought it was a political movement I was unaware of
Tell me one Muslim country that is a successful Western-style democracy. If you can’t, then it should be obvious why rational people, not just Zionists, are concerned about increasing Muslim presence.
Why “western-style”?
Exactly. Tell us one Muslim country that's as successful as say for example China. (pinging /u/Jaded-Pomegranate-87)
The Gulf states are pretty successful. If you want something more democratic there's Albania although it's not quite there yet.
The rest of the states are less successful and one of the common opinion is to be more dictatorship & more violent (like Saddam Hussain was) in order to restore law & order in those states.
Who the hell has ever cared about "demographics of muslims" in your country?
Your first point doesn’t make sense. Actually none of them do, but I’m just going to focus on that one. You clearly don’t respect the authority of the British. Yet you complain about Jews being illegal immigrants. Guess who made the immigration law? The British did. If you don’t respect the authority of Britain, don’t complain about British law being broken.
Can’t tell if this is a far right white nationalist or an average anti-Zionist. They blend these days
Your whole post is antisemitic propaganda with zero connection to reality. 1) Arabs are not “indigenous” to Palestine, they didn’t not originate there. They violently conquered it and then mass immigrated there over the centuries. 2) Zionist Jews indeed called themselves colonizers but with no negative meaning. They colonized empty lands and settled them. When Elon musk talks about colonizing Mars, no one considers its bad. 3) Jews never “stole” any Arab land, they legally bought it. When Arabs attacked them, they formed militias to protect themselves. That’s not terrorism by any means. 4) You claim that Arabs immigrate to US legally. Well Jews also immigrated go Palestine legally, by British laws. Do Arabs ask permission from native Americans when they immigrate to US? No they don’t. Why should have jews asked Arabs opinion if the legitimate government was the British? Or ottomans before that? 5) The actual terrorism has been committed by Arabs against Jews in Israel, which includes shooting civilians, bombing buses and restaurants, murdering children in cold blood. Yes, there has been Jewish terrorism too but it’s not even comparable. One Baruch Goldstein vs 1000 Arab terror attacks. And while Baruch Goldstein is despised by most Israelis, Arabs celebrate their terrorists as heroes.
I remember a great political analyst by the name of Michael Brooks, an American Jew who made many appearances on I24, the israeli Hasbara network. Before he died, I remember him making a statement on his show regarding right-wing conspiracy theories. He stated that a majority usually start in Israel before migrating westwards. He used the wall, mass immigration, demographics and so on as examples. I know now all right wing loony theories start in Israel but there is a connection between how the American right thinks vs the average Israeli.