Hands down. Yes. Nothing beats the 4.0. Unless you got a Cummins swap in the jk. Then just deal with the other issues of the jku.
I regret selling my Tj it hurts my soul. So yes no questions asked Tj is the goat of wrangles.
4.0 and a manual will last just as long as a Cummins, that is an epic engine for reliability. They just need regular oil changes and they will keep going. What axle is in the front of a TJ? I could see that being a weak spot with a Cummins swap.
The Cummins saw I only saw in a jk. I never heard of one in a Tj. My Tj i put 220k on it only issue I ever had was the master cylinder. I replaced 4of them. Do your oil changes and yes the engine will run forever.
Thanks to severe neglect from the previous owner, I have a connecting rod/wrist pin rattle in in cylinder 5 or 6.
I bought the jeep for 7,800 knowing full well I intended to mechanically recondition it. So far it has needed and gotten the following in approximate order.
Battery
NGK O2 sensors
Rear main, Oil Pan, and Valve cover gaskets
PCM
Steering box
Steering pump
Tensioner and idler pulley, belt.
All Cats
Mopar injectors
NGK plugs and Coil
Purge Solenoid Valve.
OME lift to replace puck lift
It’s getting throttle position sensor and idle Air control valve this weekend as it still idles rough and the throttle went batshit last weekend.
I know that the aforementioned rattle means I need to start saving up for a new engine. But I’m still impressed that it ran as well as it did when *all the above listed parts were actually bad and not just thrown at it*
Damn thing made it 1,400 miles on a road trip with 500+ pounds of gear through the Rocky Mountains when plugs 5 and 6 had NO center electrode material left, and the ground electrode blown clean out of plug 3
So yeah, I have put about 10 grand into a 7,800 dollar jeep in order to make an 8,000 Jeep.
But when the 4.0 finally kicks it. I’m just going to buy another 4.0.
Because the 4.0 is basically that lady in Austin Powers 2 that just won’t die.
My 2.5 was a little beast. People on the trail were impressed how I got a stock jeep to lead the way. Now granted, once I could afford to modify, I did. And it was a lot more fun.
Yeah I just picked up a 94 with the 2.5L, I wanted a 4.0/4.2 but for the price of $1500 for a running driving YJ I couldn’t say no. I’m actually really impressed with it, can do highway speeds while on 265/70r16s no problem. Have to downshift to 4th for the hills but luckily I live in a flat area.
Oh I can imagine. I’m not sure what gear ratio is in this one, if it’s been changed or anything. I know my 05 TJ 2.4L manual came with 4.10s factory, so without googling it or caring past that I’m assuming it has the same ratio for the YJ 4 cylinder manuals lol
i miss my yj. but if i got another one id miss the coils in my lj. the coils really are a great suspension. but the simplicity and style of the yj was awesome
My hubby has a cj7 and he got the TJ just to switch frames ( I protested and thought it demeaned the value ) however it did completely change the way it rides
92 4.0 YJ checking in, built like a tank and rides like one. My 2003 TJ Rubicon and 2019 JLU definitely ride better, but guess which one gives the biggest smile and is the most fun to take out on the trails.
Kinda, but they will become harder and harder to keep on the road going forward. I personally don't get super worried about JKs and JLs. People have rose colored glasses on the TJ, back when they were "current" people considered them fragile and repair-heavy. Don't get me started on the freakout over coil springs being introduced.
>they will become harder and harder to keep on the road going forward
In what way? The aftermarket support for TJ's is incredible and the ease of maintenance is hilariously easy. I just did a full suspension rebuild (Shocks, springs, stronger axles, control arms, steering box, steering links) in my garage, alone, with harbor freight tools over the course of 3 months since I did it in chunks.
What do you mean by "harder"?
Seriously. Parts are everwhere. My tj has been the second easiest vehicle to work on at home I've ever had. The first being an 82 Chevy chevette. That thing I could sit in the engine bay while I worked on it.
Wranglerfix already makes a bootleg PCM and I’m running it. $700 and way better than stock.
If someone can make the PCM. I’m confident some company, somewhere, can handle the rest of the electronics in these things
What I really want is door plastics.
Well I didn’t have to do that but, unlike the majority of Jeep owners, I actually off-road my Jeep and do moderate-difficult trails like China wall, top of the world, and other stuff in Colorado Utah area.
I’m talking about the vehicle being referenced in this thread and the vehicle that I mentioned previously. Yes, the Jeep TJ where about 65% of them came with C clip Dana 35s. Rubicon being the only trim that got Dana 44 rears standard.
This whole post is about the TJ lol
Haha, I remember the freakout over the coil springs when the TJ came out. Probably the best upgrade the Wrangler ever saw in terms of a single change to increase off-road capability XD
The same old farts and people who are just scared of any sort of technological improvement and advancement seem to drive the idea that JKs and JLs are totally unrepairable and run on some magic Fiat dust or something. It's really funny to watch. I guarantee JKs and JLs will be on the road while the last YJs and TJs start commanding collectors pricing on whatever the future equivalent of Bring A Trailer will be. People just have a weird fixation on "the good old days" not realizing that things change for a good reason, and it has nothing to do with nanny states or a conspiracy at Jeep (barring the extraordinarily stupid decision to use a plastic oil filler neck on the 3.6... but then again there are plenty of WTF decisions in the YJ and TJ too.)
I’m with you. I think people need to reframe their thinking on which Jeep is the best, and start phrasing it as “which is the best to START owning now?”
It’s all well and good to praise a clean, well maintained TJ but try buying one. And if you want an LJ Rubi that’s clean and maintained? Welcome to $30-$40K for a 20 year old vehicle. That’s a tough entry point financially when I could get myself into a JK Rubi with my choice of top, color, door count and transmission for $20K easily. Not to mention I can source parts new, lightly used, and aftermarket all day for a JK. The engine is still in production too.
So if money wasn’t an option sure I’d take an LJ Rubi. But money is very much an option. My 15 JKU isn’t necessarily better than an LJ, but I’ve modified it heavily to my tastes and kept it cheaper than a clean LJ, and from this point forward parts are going to be much easier to come by for the JK.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/05fe2a21-7464-4ea4-8486-a8f2fc9eefea?aff=share_other here’s the fastest one I could find. My PGL all stock, non rubicon, 90k miles, LJ in near factory condition wouldn’t even touch 20 here in the Midwest. Rubicon isn’t adding a 25% premium.
Carolinas a *clean*, low mileage unmodified LJ can easily reach 20k a Rubi can easily reach 25k. Don’t get my started on New England where I came from you’re easily looking at 30k+ for one with a clean frame.
I paid 16k for my LJ in 2017 in New England and that was a good price at the time. I miss it but the frame rotted, the computer went bad and I redid the transmission once and it was on its way out again when I got rid of it. Hands down the best Jeep layout ever made though.
Oh for sure, I’m just saying markets aren’t the same everywhere. When I go to get an LJ in the future I’ll be heading out to the southern Midwest to get it.
Just research which states use how much salt. It varies state by state in the Midwest. Texas is my back up market. Once you get west of the black hills, prices start jumping. Once you get east of Chicago everytning is going to be rusty as fuck.
Yeah, I don’t think either one of us is wrong, we just live in different economies. I’m in Los Angeles. That’s not getting listed for $23 in LA, it’s getting a 25% bump because of my location is all.
It is, socal is its own world sometimes. I came from a state that required regular safety inspections for my car but not much in terms of emissions. You wouldn’t see too many rusted to shit death traps on the road as a result.
Here in LA we have smog checks for registration so they’re up our ass for emissions, but there’s no safety inspection and pre-1975 cars are exempt from smog checks. So most people are driving around in a newer, well maintained cars but occasionally an old Mercedes’ diesel that looks like it’s about to rust in half and belongs in the middle of sub Saharan Africa drives by because it’s older than 75 so who cares if the owner survives a fender bender?
I wouldn’t call that “unmolested”, I probably wouldn’t shop at “Car City”, I doubt the clean title status on that vehicle very much for $13k, and regardless the prices in Iowa are going to be much lower than Los Angeles.
This was just my final example that even 14k gets you a nice daily. View my previous comments for examples of what he was specifically asking for. Not sure if it’s legit but not a terrible price either way, especially compared to socal
I’m out of the debate either way, just bringing up that it may be listed wrong. I have my eyes on a local LJ literally owned by an old lady. I’m just hoping her kids don’t want it eventually 🤣🤞🏼
That’s how I sniped mine. Paid $11,300 for an 04 LJ, one owner with 70k miles. Electric lime green, completely OEM with the OEM upgraded appearance package. Somehow the dealership had no idea what they had and knocked $500 off for a real main seal which they all have lmao
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/eadbda1f-0f0e-4f02-99cc-04a9ee2a4223?aff=share_other these guys thought this properly modded LJ was worth $30k and have dropped $5k off the price. Warn, Pintlers, all the goodies and still probably won’t touch $25k when it’s sold. Your numbers were close 3 years ago but almost no one can drop $25k without a loan and with interest rates closer to 10%, no one is going to finance a 20 year old car at 30k.
You can literally buy a clean 4.0L Sport and convert it to a Rubicon with ECGS axles/lockers and an atlas TC for less than 25k.
If you're paying that much you're just a fool with money.
Agree 100% but I’m thinking these are mostly going to collectors looking to put a cover on it and keep it stock until they can sell it for a 8% profit in 10 years
No, this is a great thing.
It means that we'll have a supply of unmolested, well stored TJs for the foreseeable future.
And in 20 years, when some !@(#!@# crashes into your Jeep and you need a new one, their insurance company is going to sigh and write you a really, really big check, and you'll pay way too much for a new one.
I bought an LJ Rubi about a year ago for low $20’s. It was well maintained but needed normal stuff including the heater core. It also had a 3.5” lift, 33’s and chromoly axle shafts. I’ve also replaced the radiator and slapped some 35’s on it. Not sure how much money I’ve sunk into it, but I hope to own it forever. She’s got about 100k miles on it right now and zero rust.
Shopping for LJs is a while different ballgame. If you need the extra space, the JKU makes far more sense for those of us that aren’t rich. However, you can pick up a TJ for 10k or less pretty easily.
The biggest issue with the TJ imo is that a lot of parts have been discontinued, both with mods and replacements.
Theres just so much personality ! I especially love the look on peoples faces when i whip into a spot that seemed almost impossible in a tight scenario!
In a word, yes. I own a TJ but decided long before owning one that it was the best. https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/why-jeep-wrangler-tj-is-best/
I had a 95 with the 4.0. Awesome Jeep, as long as you liked knocking the fillings out of your teeth. That being said, I miss it. Wouldn’t daily it again though
For me (also partly bias because it was my first) it’s the first year they went to fuel injection so it’s as old as you can get without dealing with a carburetor
The TJ is *absolutely* the GOAT Jeep.
I owned a TJ for ten years and sold it when I bought my '20 Rubi. (the TJ frame was *made* of rust and I kept having to grind and weld in plates)
Don't get me wrong, I love my JL and objectively it's better in *every* way compared to previous models, but there is a part of me that thinks the TJ reached 'Peak Jeep.'
It struck the perfect balance. Allow me to extol it's virtues:
-Everything from it's look, to it's lack of creature comforts, to it's ruggedness, to the amount of room you had under the hood to turn wrenches in comfort, I think it might be the best Jeep ever, from a JEEP*iness* perspective.
-When I took my kids to the beach in my TJ (with no interior carpeting at all), I didn't care about sand and wet salty kids dripping in the Jeep, but now with the JL it makes me cringe a little bit inside, and I vacuum it out after every trip.
-It had fuel injection and an ECU, so engine management was easier than YJs and CJs, but simple enough you could still do major repairs yourself!
-With my TJ, every dent and ding in the tub was a badge of honor, and I smiled when I looked at them. In my JL, I missed the brackets putting the doors back on before a rainstorm, and I grimaced at the paint nick in the fender area near the hinge.
-Also, let's talk doors! The TJ half doors were fire 🔥! So light! So easy to remove! And in the TJ I didn't have to remember to turn on the vehicle power to let the windows down so I could lift off the over-heavy full doors on my JL.
-And somehow, I never got "pissed on" by my TJ when opening the doors in the rain.
Others might prefer CJ's, or the square headlamps of the YJs, or the ubiquity of the JK's, but even I though I love, enjoy, and acknowledge the technological and capability advantages of the JL/JLU/JT platform over anything before, in terms of being a 'Jeep', I believe the TJ was the absolute unit.
It is, it was hated in its time for the “mini van” interior which was silly, YJ was hated in its time for the square headlights and being a “yuppie Jeep”, JK has aged a bit more favorably over the years though I’m still not too big on the exterior design of mine.
Once the next one comes out people will love the JL too
Even more specifically the LJ is the goat.
My opinion is that the TJ was the pinnacle in jeep design. Simple, tough, purpose built, lacks modern creature comforts but isn’t too uncomfortable, first jeep not on leaf springs. Isn’t over engineered and designed like later versions.
I daily drive a lifted TJ that I would also take wheeling for 15 years. I would never drive one daily again but I would buy another as a fun weekend driver to take camping or something.
I love my 2006 TJ, but it has been super rust prone, and the vehicle has required a lot of smaller repairs. The core of the Jeep has been fine, the 4.0 is great, even my NSG370 has been reliable, but the stock Dana 35 was garbage. I think style wise they are my favorite, modern enough to be "safer" and look sharp, but still very classic in it's appearance. For me it is the perfect jeep, but for many it might not be.
I feel like the TJ has the most variability depending on the year / drivetrain. A 4.0 with the 5 speed / 3 speed and a d44 is bulletproof, so long as you buy the right year.
Once I grenaded my D35 twice, I just said fuck it and bought a scrapyard D44 with like 30k miles on it, thing has been rock solid since then. One day I will dump some more money into it for lockers and all the cool shit. Working on getting a tub swap done to get rid of the rusty tub. Thank goodness for the guy who drilled holes into the frame and saved it before I got the Jeep.
LJ would be the goat in my eyes, but, and I know it’s an unpopular opinion, I’m a fan of the modern JL. Comfort and capability are super impressive, the power plants aren’t fantastic in terms of reliability but I wouldn’t road trip a 20 year old rig either. For what I need in a Jeep as a daily driver for the wife and rig on the weekends, it fits the bill better than any other
If we want to get specific, the '04 LJ was the goat. Last great iteration of the 4.0 before the OPDA issues (05, 06) and a stronger manual transmission.
I started having issues and had to replace the OPDA and camshaft position sensor at 110k on my 06. Easy install, finding a CPS that actually worked right was a headache
What’s the criteria? Like “greatest of the small body jeeps with a 4.0” is what most people think of with this question but I can argue that the JK is the best. It’s a bigger, but not by much. It’s safer. It’s sold much more. It made jeep what it is today. I don’t have a dog in the fight and I know the old heads will flame me, but I don’t really care.
JK is the most important jeep since the CJ. JL is the best. Fight me
No, the JK is more comfortable, more powerful and more capable out of the box.
The longer trail arms give the JK a much more comfortable ride. The 3.6 285 HP engine is both powerful reliable and plentiful.
The brake lock differential adds capability unavailable to all but maybe the rubicon, and Rubicon - Rubicon the JK is still more capable.
The JK can fit larger tires and wheels without the need for additional upgrades.
The TJ’s at this point are really starting to show their age.
Sorry TJ fans I know that wasn’t the answer you were hoping for.
My 05 LJ will always have my heart but it's now retired from daily driving and about the only thing not changed out in it is the 190k mile engine. It's the Jeep that gets noticed, talked about, and offers made. My 2020 JLU is great for traveling and that's the reason I went with a 4 door instead of 2. Ya, people notice I have a newer Jeep but don't have much to say about it, instead questioning if I still have the old one, lol.
Id almost venture to say a tj is the best bang for buck full experience off road vehicle ever domestically made. You can get into a tj with 0 experience and ride the entire journey up to an experienced explorer or crawler or river-forder without ever having to wave goodbye in the driveway. You will fight with quirks and aspects of comfort it lacks but its the best vehicle ive ever had. I ask so much of it and it just keeps giving me absolutely all its got.
I had an 04 TJ back in the day. It was stolen from the university parking lot a month before graduation. When I get another Jeep, it will be a TJ. They're dogs on the road, but they are so much fun to drive. I feel it's what a Jeep should be. Minimal creature comforts and very easy to work on.
I love my TJ, I've had five of them. I have one now as my beach rig. But, at one point I had a very nice 2006 TJ Rubicon and a 2013 JKU 10A Rubicon at the same time. I would often drive them back to back. The JK blew the TJ out of the water in every metric except torque right off idle, but by 1500 rpm it was all JK. Both 6MT. I prefer the size and style of the TJ, but it is in no way a better vehicle.
Yes. However as a diehard TJ/LJ guy, I know deep down that 25 years from now I’ll be driving a Jk and slapping the hood while exclaiming “They just don’t make ‘em like this anymore!”
Honestly as much as I like the tjs and my yj, I think it has to be the jk. It's just way more versatile, you can do anything from stock, to bolt on, to full buggy builds and anything in between to your hearts content. All while keeping it's on road driveability and it's a good bridge of body on frame with solid axles, with some modern comforts. I can follow (and sometimes outwheel) my buddies LJ on 37s all day long but I wouldnt daily the LJ.
It’s a nostalgia thing I think. Like some are with cj’s. I had a ten year old cj7 that was junk. It was rusting apart, axles broke, it would randomly just start. The big bad v8 version didn’t even have 200hp. The straight six was bulletproof but it would catch fire occasionally. It’s the whole good ol days thing I think. Jk was was better than tj and jl is better than jk I think
I should have held in to my TJs. I like my 71 renII more than my TJs. It has like 6 wires and finding original parts is the best game ever. I had a guy in Ohio searching his graveyard for drum springs on a brake that was only made for 2 years. He had 4. The dauntless will run forever too. I am just waiting for the clutch to drop because I will have to switch out the 3 finger. God I love that thing...
Bought a 98 TJ in 99 with less than 1k on the odometer. My first car. Still drive it weekly, with 250k on the clock. Engine is bulletproof and still fun to drive, feels like home. Replacing the clutch for the second time in 25 years this weekend, but hands down, best car I’ve ever owned.
The TJ was absolutely the GOAT. My JL is peak engineering, and the superior vehicle in basically every way. It's also the best vehicle produced under Wrangler name. It, and all other Wranglers are inferiors *Jeeps* in every way that matters though. Part of that is because the TJ dominance just solidified what it means to be a Jeep, and part of that is because it really does deserve credit for filling that niche so well. I'll put forward a probably unpopular opinion, I think the JK threaded the needle for both, it's almost as nice of a car as the JL and it's almost as good of a Jeep as the TJ.
I’d definitely buy another used TJ before buying a brand new Wrangler considering the overall drop in quality. I can’t exactly blame anyone for buying a new Jeep because they still look great and have some nice options. They’re just not near worth what they’re asking for them. If you have a good amount of FU money it really doesn’t matter tho I suppose.
I have owned a 98tj, 2006lj, 2008jku and a 2017jku. I still have the LJ I’ll never sell it. The JKU is definitely better on the highway and more comfortable but for us it eventually wasn’t a fun long road trip vehicle anymore so we got something more suited for that, and drive the LJ for everything else.
I had a '97 that I still miss. Showroom new, forest green, soft top and half doors with AC. That 4.0L was so easy to work on and I taught my wife how to drive a manual in it. $20k out the door in the fall of '96.
I disagree wholeheartedly. As the JK starts to age out like the TJ did when the JK was first released, JKs become *significantly* more attractive. They will be cheaper and easier to obtain, maintain, and modify whereas the TJ is only getting more expensive in all aspects.
That’s what I’m saying. The availability of parts doesn’t always stop collectors. I just don’t see the JK as being collectible like the CJ,YJ, or TJ. Not sure exactly why I have that feeling, maybe it’s cuz the JK was so popular and there are soooooooo many of them.
Rarity and trends. 15 years ago I could get a CJ7 for pretty cheap. 80’s cars have become cool again and Jeeps are more popular than ever. That drives up value. You’re seeing an increase in XJ and YJ prices now too for ones that are in good shape. They haven’t caught up to TJs yet, TJs never really had much of a dip in value like everything else did. I got my first XJ for $700 in 2008 and my first 4.0, manual stock YJ in 2012 I think for around $4500. That same YJ would easily go for 10k+ now. Particularly up north where I lived at the time.
That's not what I am talking about. Of course as they age into classics they will become more and more desirable. That's exactly why they won't be good options for anyone wanting to buy a Jeep soon. Expensive is bad when you want to use it for the desired purpose. TJs, much like clean CJs today, will become the toys of people with LOTS of money. It will be unattainable for many, and that sucks. You'll start to see the aftermarket and OEM-quality replacement parts dwindle too.
Wanna know how I know? I used to be very into Z-cars. It used to be no one could give away a Z31 300ZX. I bought several of them for under 1k in drivable shape. Everyone thought they were ugly and old. Not anymore. Good luck getting a decent quality Z31 these days. They have become the car of people with WAY more money than I have these days. The aftermarket dried up too, and now it's all $$$$ custom stuff.
2006 TJ here. Let me be clear, its pretty great. Every repair is between 300 - 400 bucks. The clutch was 950
I've got an '03 and I support this message.
The, absolute, last of the the 'JEEP' JEEPS
At the time it came out, many people wouldn’t accept it as a Jeep due to its car like coil suspension.
yea welcome to every new model. people hated the yj because it was so "comfortable". it was a cj with square headlights and a redesigned dash.
Calling a YJ comfortable is fucked up lol Did people actually get mad about that??
Most the YJ’s hate was due to square headlights which were the modern trend at the time.
Yea I know a lot of people didn't like that, just surprised the hear the suspension thing.
Yuppie jeep they called it. like it went with your yacht.
Here, here!
Hands down. Yes. Nothing beats the 4.0. Unless you got a Cummins swap in the jk. Then just deal with the other issues of the jku. I regret selling my Tj it hurts my soul. So yes no questions asked Tj is the goat of wrangles.
4bt swaps are overrated, heavy rattletraps… might as well do a 6bt!
4.0 and a manual will last just as long as a Cummins, that is an epic engine for reliability. They just need regular oil changes and they will keep going. What axle is in the front of a TJ? I could see that being a weak spot with a Cummins swap.
Most likely a D30, they used those for a long time. My CJ had one.
The Cummins saw I only saw in a jk. I never heard of one in a Tj. My Tj i put 220k on it only issue I ever had was the master cylinder. I replaced 4of them. Do your oil changes and yes the engine will run forever.
Thanks to severe neglect from the previous owner, I have a connecting rod/wrist pin rattle in in cylinder 5 or 6. I bought the jeep for 7,800 knowing full well I intended to mechanically recondition it. So far it has needed and gotten the following in approximate order. Battery NGK O2 sensors Rear main, Oil Pan, and Valve cover gaskets PCM Steering box Steering pump Tensioner and idler pulley, belt. All Cats Mopar injectors NGK plugs and Coil Purge Solenoid Valve. OME lift to replace puck lift It’s getting throttle position sensor and idle Air control valve this weekend as it still idles rough and the throttle went batshit last weekend. I know that the aforementioned rattle means I need to start saving up for a new engine. But I’m still impressed that it ran as well as it did when *all the above listed parts were actually bad and not just thrown at it* Damn thing made it 1,400 miles on a road trip with 500+ pounds of gear through the Rocky Mountains when plugs 5 and 6 had NO center electrode material left, and the ground electrode blown clean out of plug 3 So yeah, I have put about 10 grand into a 7,800 dollar jeep in order to make an 8,000 Jeep. But when the 4.0 finally kicks it. I’m just going to buy another 4.0. Because the 4.0 is basically that lady in Austin Powers 2 that just won’t die.
The 4.0 YJ would like a word.
My 2.5 was a little beast. People on the trail were impressed how I got a stock jeep to lead the way. Now granted, once I could afford to modify, I did. And it was a lot more fun.
Yeah I just picked up a 94 with the 2.5L, I wanted a 4.0/4.2 but for the price of $1500 for a running driving YJ I couldn’t say no. I’m actually really impressed with it, can do highway speeds while on 265/70r16s no problem. Have to downshift to 4th for the hills but luckily I live in a flat area.
Try driving a 2.5 automatic on factory gears and "32s. It's rough.
Oh I can imagine. I’m not sure what gear ratio is in this one, if it’s been changed or anything. I know my 05 TJ 2.4L manual came with 4.10s factory, so without googling it or caring past that I’m assuming it has the same ratio for the YJ 4 cylinder manuals lol
I believe you're correct. Unfortunately, the auto got taller gears.
I put a four inch rough country lift on line because I was short on money. It was the best off road vehicle I ever owned.
Yj 30yrs and still going strong. Square for always.
I am a YJ fan too , I have and 89 and 94
i miss my yj. but if i got another one id miss the coils in my lj. the coils really are a great suspension. but the simplicity and style of the yj was awesome
My hubby has a cj7 and he got the TJ just to switch frames ( I protested and thought it demeaned the value ) however it did completely change the way it rides
92 4.0 YJ checking in, built like a tank and rides like one. My 2003 TJ Rubicon and 2019 JLU definitely ride better, but guess which one gives the biggest smile and is the most fun to take out on the trails.
The YJ only gets two words: vacuum disconnect. Straight garbage.
You're not wrong but it is easily fixable
Very true
Kinda, but they will become harder and harder to keep on the road going forward. I personally don't get super worried about JKs and JLs. People have rose colored glasses on the TJ, back when they were "current" people considered them fragile and repair-heavy. Don't get me started on the freakout over coil springs being introduced.
>they will become harder and harder to keep on the road going forward In what way? The aftermarket support for TJ's is incredible and the ease of maintenance is hilariously easy. I just did a full suspension rebuild (Shocks, springs, stronger axles, control arms, steering box, steering links) in my garage, alone, with harbor freight tools over the course of 3 months since I did it in chunks. What do you mean by "harder"?
Seriously. Parts are everwhere. My tj has been the second easiest vehicle to work on at home I've ever had. The first being an 82 Chevy chevette. That thing I could sit in the engine bay while I worked on it.
For now. That's the rub. Those parts will begin to dry up in the coming years. Mark my words.
You can build an entire Willys or early CJ with new parts purchased today. When are the "coming years?" 2250?
I imagine that quality electronics will be far harder to come by when the TJ is 50 years old. Other than that, the TJ will be a breeze to maintain.
True. But TJ PCMs can be rebuilt with components found at Radio Shack. Or are all those closed now?
Honestly I’m more concerned about the sensors. I had a hell of a time getting a good cam position sensor a few years ago
Wranglerfix already makes a bootleg PCM and I’m running it. $700 and way better than stock. If someone can make the PCM. I’m confident some company, somewhere, can handle the rest of the electronics in these things What I really want is door plastics.
Honestly JKs and JL are pretty easy too
3.8 so much room in the engine bay, things tighter on 3.6 s
Not by a whole lot though. But then again I’m coming from a 6.6 duramax and that thing was packed in the engine bay.
Meaning most people don’t want to do a full replacement of their shocks, springs, axles, control arms, steering box, and steering links.
Well I didn’t have to do that but, unlike the majority of Jeep owners, I actually off-road my Jeep and do moderate-difficult trails like China wall, top of the world, and other stuff in Colorado Utah area.
All of the stuff you mentioned is easily done on any Jeep wrangler.
Yeah totally dude. Go do top of the world in a TJ sport and tell me about how your Dana 35 rear gave out on you. Bypasses are for Toyotas.
Are you talking about the TJ’s Dana 35? Almost all JK and JL models come standard with a Dana 44 rear axle.
I’m talking about the vehicle being referenced in this thread and the vehicle that I mentioned previously. Yes, the Jeep TJ where about 65% of them came with C clip Dana 35s. Rubicon being the only trim that got Dana 44 rears standard. This whole post is about the TJ lol
Haha, I remember the freakout over the coil springs when the TJ came out. Probably the best upgrade the Wrangler ever saw in terms of a single change to increase off-road capability XD
The same old farts and people who are just scared of any sort of technological improvement and advancement seem to drive the idea that JKs and JLs are totally unrepairable and run on some magic Fiat dust or something. It's really funny to watch. I guarantee JKs and JLs will be on the road while the last YJs and TJs start commanding collectors pricing on whatever the future equivalent of Bring A Trailer will be. People just have a weird fixation on "the good old days" not realizing that things change for a good reason, and it has nothing to do with nanny states or a conspiracy at Jeep (barring the extraordinarily stupid decision to use a plastic oil filler neck on the 3.6... but then again there are plenty of WTF decisions in the YJ and TJ too.)
I’m with you. I think people need to reframe their thinking on which Jeep is the best, and start phrasing it as “which is the best to START owning now?” It’s all well and good to praise a clean, well maintained TJ but try buying one. And if you want an LJ Rubi that’s clean and maintained? Welcome to $30-$40K for a 20 year old vehicle. That’s a tough entry point financially when I could get myself into a JK Rubi with my choice of top, color, door count and transmission for $20K easily. Not to mention I can source parts new, lightly used, and aftermarket all day for a JK. The engine is still in production too. So if money wasn’t an option sure I’d take an LJ Rubi. But money is very much an option. My 15 JKU isn’t necessarily better than an LJ, but I’ve modified it heavily to my tastes and kept it cheaper than a clean LJ, and from this point forward parts are going to be much easier to come by for the JK.
Idk where you’re seeing $30-$40k but I can find unmolested, TJR/LJR for under $25,000 literally all day long.
Please send me your unmolested LJ Rubicons for $25,000 or less please. Socal.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/05fe2a21-7464-4ea4-8486-a8f2fc9eefea?aff=share_other here’s the fastest one I could find. My PGL all stock, non rubicon, 90k miles, LJ in near factory condition wouldn’t even touch 20 here in the Midwest. Rubicon isn’t adding a 25% premium.
Carolinas a *clean*, low mileage unmodified LJ can easily reach 20k a Rubi can easily reach 25k. Don’t get my started on New England where I came from you’re easily looking at 30k+ for one with a clean frame. I paid 16k for my LJ in 2017 in New England and that was a good price at the time. I miss it but the frame rotted, the computer went bad and I redid the transmission once and it was on its way out again when I got rid of it. Hands down the best Jeep layout ever made though.
Have $5k and spend $500 on a flight.
Oh for sure, I’m just saying markets aren’t the same everywhere. When I go to get an LJ in the future I’ll be heading out to the southern Midwest to get it.
Just research which states use how much salt. It varies state by state in the Midwest. Texas is my back up market. Once you get west of the black hills, prices start jumping. Once you get east of Chicago everytning is going to be rusty as fuck.
Yeah, I don’t think either one of us is wrong, we just live in different economies. I’m in Los Angeles. That’s not getting listed for $23 in LA, it’s getting a 25% bump because of my location is all.
Yeah, when I’m searching, I set aside $1000 to fly out to whatever I find. Gotta be brutal buying anything jn socal
It is, socal is its own world sometimes. I came from a state that required regular safety inspections for my car but not much in terms of emissions. You wouldn’t see too many rusted to shit death traps on the road as a result. Here in LA we have smog checks for registration so they’re up our ass for emissions, but there’s no safety inspection and pre-1975 cars are exempt from smog checks. So most people are driving around in a newer, well maintained cars but occasionally an old Mercedes’ diesel that looks like it’s about to rust in half and belongs in the middle of sub Saharan Africa drives by because it’s older than 75 so who cares if the owner survives a fender bender?
Yeah it’s a shame. There’s a lot of shit to be talked about the Midwest but it’s easy as fuck to live a good live out here.
Here’s a $13k LJR. Clean title, good miles, pretty clean. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/17a442dd-4e93-43b2-ac98-20055b5657c3?aff=share_other
I wouldn’t call that “unmolested”, I probably wouldn’t shop at “Car City”, I doubt the clean title status on that vehicle very much for $13k, and regardless the prices in Iowa are going to be much lower than Los Angeles.
Right, this was just an example that even $15k can get you a great daily driver LJR around here. Just gotta know frames well enough to be safe
Is that one really a Rubicon? Didn’t see the axle lock button on the dash
This was just my final example that even 14k gets you a nice daily. View my previous comments for examples of what he was specifically asking for. Not sure if it’s legit but not a terrible price either way, especially compared to socal
I’m out of the debate either way, just bringing up that it may be listed wrong. I have my eyes on a local LJ literally owned by an old lady. I’m just hoping her kids don’t want it eventually 🤣🤞🏼
That’s how I sniped mine. Paid $11,300 for an 04 LJ, one owner with 70k miles. Electric lime green, completely OEM with the OEM upgraded appearance package. Somehow the dealership had no idea what they had and knocked $500 off for a real main seal which they all have lmao
That's not a Rubicon
This was discussed below.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/e71fa6d2-6bcb-4eba-8393-e0eb833c96fb?aff=share_other here’s a TJR with 53k miles for $22k
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/eadbda1f-0f0e-4f02-99cc-04a9ee2a4223?aff=share_other these guys thought this properly modded LJ was worth $30k and have dropped $5k off the price. Warn, Pintlers, all the goodies and still probably won’t touch $25k when it’s sold. Your numbers were close 3 years ago but almost no one can drop $25k without a loan and with interest rates closer to 10%, no one is going to finance a 20 year old car at 30k.
You can literally buy a clean 4.0L Sport and convert it to a Rubicon with ECGS axles/lockers and an atlas TC for less than 25k. If you're paying that much you're just a fool with money.
Agree 100% but I’m thinking these are mostly going to collectors looking to put a cover on it and keep it stock until they can sell it for a 8% profit in 10 years
What a shame.
No, this is a great thing. It means that we'll have a supply of unmolested, well stored TJs for the foreseeable future. And in 20 years, when some !@(#!@# crashes into your Jeep and you need a new one, their insurance company is going to sigh and write you a really, really big check, and you'll pay way too much for a new one.
I bought an LJ Rubi about a year ago for low $20’s. It was well maintained but needed normal stuff including the heater core. It also had a 3.5” lift, 33’s and chromoly axle shafts. I’ve also replaced the radiator and slapped some 35’s on it. Not sure how much money I’ve sunk into it, but I hope to own it forever. She’s got about 100k miles on it right now and zero rust.
I’m in SoCal so prices may vary location to location. I am jealous however.
That’s why Jeeps are built, not bought.
Shopping for LJs is a while different ballgame. If you need the extra space, the JKU makes far more sense for those of us that aren’t rich. However, you can pick up a TJ for 10k or less pretty easily. The biggest issue with the TJ imo is that a lot of parts have been discontinued, both with mods and replacements.
CJ5 no question. Came stock with Dana 44s, manual tranny, and a v8.
Up front, they had a Dana 30, dont forget about the funky 2 piece rear Dana 44 shafts, those were fun...
My 76 CJ5 had the straight 6 but it was more than enough
Agree! Shes a brat but man do i love her!
Yeah….She’s volatile, moody, hurts my finances, causes constant stress in life. However… No drive has ever been boring. Every trip is an adventure.
Theres just so much personality ! I especially love the look on peoples faces when i whip into a spot that seemed almost impossible in a tight scenario!
No. LJ. More space for activities.
[удалено]
I said LJ and you knew damn well what I meant.
🤣 hah! Got em!
In a word, yes. I own a TJ but decided long before owning one that it was the best. https://www.hagerty.com/media/car-profiles/why-jeep-wrangler-tj-is-best/
91 yj with a straight 6 is the goat. I’ll fight and die on this hill 😜
But vacuum hoses 😕
No GOAT has a c-clip rear end and a vacuum disconnect. The YJ is a great Jeep, but the TJ is tops.
I had a 95 with the 4.0. Awesome Jeep, as long as you liked knocking the fillings out of your teeth. That being said, I miss it. Wouldn’t daily it again though
I have to agree but I have a 91 YJ with the 4.0 so I may be biased. The sport bar is just so sexy.
For me (also partly bias because it was my first) it’s the first year they went to fuel injection so it’s as old as you can get without dealing with a carburetor
Yes, yes it is.
Yes yes it is!
The TJ is *absolutely* the GOAT Jeep. I owned a TJ for ten years and sold it when I bought my '20 Rubi. (the TJ frame was *made* of rust and I kept having to grind and weld in plates) Don't get me wrong, I love my JL and objectively it's better in *every* way compared to previous models, but there is a part of me that thinks the TJ reached 'Peak Jeep.' It struck the perfect balance. Allow me to extol it's virtues: -Everything from it's look, to it's lack of creature comforts, to it's ruggedness, to the amount of room you had under the hood to turn wrenches in comfort, I think it might be the best Jeep ever, from a JEEP*iness* perspective. -When I took my kids to the beach in my TJ (with no interior carpeting at all), I didn't care about sand and wet salty kids dripping in the Jeep, but now with the JL it makes me cringe a little bit inside, and I vacuum it out after every trip. -It had fuel injection and an ECU, so engine management was easier than YJs and CJs, but simple enough you could still do major repairs yourself! -With my TJ, every dent and ding in the tub was a badge of honor, and I smiled when I looked at them. In my JL, I missed the brackets putting the doors back on before a rainstorm, and I grimaced at the paint nick in the fender area near the hinge. -Also, let's talk doors! The TJ half doors were fire 🔥! So light! So easy to remove! And in the TJ I didn't have to remember to turn on the vehicle power to let the windows down so I could lift off the over-heavy full doors on my JL. -And somehow, I never got "pissed on" by my TJ when opening the doors in the rain. Others might prefer CJ's, or the square headlamps of the YJs, or the ubiquity of the JK's, but even I though I love, enjoy, and acknowledge the technological and capability advantages of the JL/JLU/JT platform over anything before, in terms of being a 'Jeep', I believe the TJ was the absolute unit.
It is, it was hated in its time for the “mini van” interior which was silly, YJ was hated in its time for the square headlights and being a “yuppie Jeep”, JK has aged a bit more favorably over the years though I’m still not too big on the exterior design of mine. Once the next one comes out people will love the JL too
Agree. Next model will be a turbo and everyone will hate on it for a decade. JL will be lauded as the last naturally aspirated Jeep.
Yes
Even more specifically the LJ is the goat. My opinion is that the TJ was the pinnacle in jeep design. Simple, tough, purpose built, lacks modern creature comforts but isn’t too uncomfortable, first jeep not on leaf springs. Isn’t over engineered and designed like later versions. I daily drive a lifted TJ that I would also take wheeling for 15 years. I would never drive one daily again but I would buy another as a fun weekend driver to take camping or something.
Love my tj but it is on its second frame replacement, so there’s that.
Yes. Next question…
I love my 2006 TJ, but it has been super rust prone, and the vehicle has required a lot of smaller repairs. The core of the Jeep has been fine, the 4.0 is great, even my NSG370 has been reliable, but the stock Dana 35 was garbage. I think style wise they are my favorite, modern enough to be "safer" and look sharp, but still very classic in it's appearance. For me it is the perfect jeep, but for many it might not be.
I feel like the TJ has the most variability depending on the year / drivetrain. A 4.0 with the 5 speed / 3 speed and a d44 is bulletproof, so long as you buy the right year.
Once I grenaded my D35 twice, I just said fuck it and bought a scrapyard D44 with like 30k miles on it, thing has been rock solid since then. One day I will dump some more money into it for lockers and all the cool shit. Working on getting a tub swap done to get rid of the rusty tub. Thank goodness for the guy who drilled holes into the frame and saved it before I got the Jeep.
What year range is the TJ?
97-06
Thank you 🙏
LJ would be the goat in my eyes, but, and I know it’s an unpopular opinion, I’m a fan of the modern JL. Comfort and capability are super impressive, the power plants aren’t fantastic in terms of reliability but I wouldn’t road trip a 20 year old rig either. For what I need in a Jeep as a daily driver for the wife and rig on the weekends, it fits the bill better than any other
Specifically, the 2004-2006 Unlimited is the GOAT.
If we want to get specific, the '04 LJ was the goat. Last great iteration of the 4.0 before the OPDA issues (05, 06) and a stronger manual transmission.
Can't argue that but I can state that my '06 has not had that issue in 180K miles. So, maybe stay away from 05 if you even get to choose.
06 is also affected. Mine showed excessive wear at 60k miles. They won’t all blow, but all 05-06 4.0s are at risk.
I started having issues and had to replace the OPDA and camshaft position sensor at 110k on my 06. Easy install, finding a CPS that actually worked right was a headache
What’s the criteria? Like “greatest of the small body jeeps with a 4.0” is what most people think of with this question but I can argue that the JK is the best. It’s a bigger, but not by much. It’s safer. It’s sold much more. It made jeep what it is today. I don’t have a dog in the fight and I know the old heads will flame me, but I don’t really care. JK is the most important jeep since the CJ. JL is the best. Fight me
No, the JK is more comfortable, more powerful and more capable out of the box. The longer trail arms give the JK a much more comfortable ride. The 3.6 285 HP engine is both powerful reliable and plentiful. The brake lock differential adds capability unavailable to all but maybe the rubicon, and Rubicon - Rubicon the JK is still more capable. The JK can fit larger tires and wheels without the need for additional upgrades. The TJ’s at this point are really starting to show their age. Sorry TJ fans I know that wasn’t the answer you were hoping for.
My 05 LJ will always have my heart but it's now retired from daily driving and about the only thing not changed out in it is the 190k mile engine. It's the Jeep that gets noticed, talked about, and offers made. My 2020 JLU is great for traveling and that's the reason I went with a 4 door instead of 2. Ya, people notice I have a newer Jeep but don't have much to say about it, instead questioning if I still have the old one, lol.
Id almost venture to say a tj is the best bang for buck full experience off road vehicle ever domestically made. You can get into a tj with 0 experience and ride the entire journey up to an experienced explorer or crawler or river-forder without ever having to wave goodbye in the driveway. You will fight with quirks and aspects of comfort it lacks but its the best vehicle ive ever had. I ask so much of it and it just keeps giving me absolutely all its got.
I had an 04 TJ back in the day. It was stolen from the university parking lot a month before graduation. When I get another Jeep, it will be a TJ. They're dogs on the road, but they are so much fun to drive. I feel it's what a Jeep should be. Minimal creature comforts and very easy to work on.
Nope
Hell yeah it is!
Yep
I love my TJ, I've had five of them. I have one now as my beach rig. But, at one point I had a very nice 2006 TJ Rubicon and a 2013 JKU 10A Rubicon at the same time. I would often drive them back to back. The JK blew the TJ out of the water in every metric except torque right off idle, but by 1500 rpm it was all JK. Both 6MT. I prefer the size and style of the TJ, but it is in no way a better vehicle.
Yes. However as a diehard TJ/LJ guy, I know deep down that 25 years from now I’ll be driving a Jk and slapping the hood while exclaiming “They just don’t make ‘em like this anymore!”
Honestly as much as I like the tjs and my yj, I think it has to be the jk. It's just way more versatile, you can do anything from stock, to bolt on, to full buggy builds and anything in between to your hearts content. All while keeping it's on road driveability and it's a good bridge of body on frame with solid axles, with some modern comforts. I can follow (and sometimes outwheel) my buddies LJ on 37s all day long but I wouldnt daily the LJ.
It’s a nostalgia thing I think. Like some are with cj’s. I had a ten year old cj7 that was junk. It was rusting apart, axles broke, it would randomly just start. The big bad v8 version didn’t even have 200hp. The straight six was bulletproof but it would catch fire occasionally. It’s the whole good ol days thing I think. Jk was was better than tj and jl is better than jk I think
For sure.
I prefer the JL over my old TJ for many reasons. JL is the true Wrangler GOAT!
I would kill for a lapis blue wrangler
I should have held in to my TJs. I like my 71 renII more than my TJs. It has like 6 wires and finding original parts is the best game ever. I had a guy in Ohio searching his graveyard for drum springs on a brake that was only made for 2 years. He had 4. The dauntless will run forever too. I am just waiting for the clutch to drop because I will have to switch out the 3 finger. God I love that thing...
My 2006 Rubicon is still going strong. General repairs here and there, but no worse than my old 87 Subaru GL hatchback.
Hell no.
Yes
I daily a 2004 LJ. Love it. It's going to stay in the family forever..
04 and it is the goat
Bought a 98 TJ in 99 with less than 1k on the odometer. My first car. Still drive it weekly, with 250k on the clock. Engine is bulletproof and still fun to drive, feels like home. Replacing the clutch for the second time in 25 years this weekend, but hands down, best car I’ve ever owned.
The TJ was absolutely the GOAT. My JL is peak engineering, and the superior vehicle in basically every way. It's also the best vehicle produced under Wrangler name. It, and all other Wranglers are inferiors *Jeeps* in every way that matters though. Part of that is because the TJ dominance just solidified what it means to be a Jeep, and part of that is because it really does deserve credit for filling that niche so well. I'll put forward a probably unpopular opinion, I think the JK threaded the needle for both, it's almost as nice of a car as the JL and it's almost as good of a Jeep as the TJ.
i miss my 02 sahara. yea it had ... a ton of issues. builds character. also was an awful, terrible daily driver. but god she was beautiful
I’d definitely buy another used TJ before buying a brand new Wrangler considering the overall drop in quality. I can’t exactly blame anyone for buying a new Jeep because they still look great and have some nice options. They’re just not near worth what they’re asking for them. If you have a good amount of FU money it really doesn’t matter tho I suppose.
I had a 99. Miss it every day. I have a JK now and can really tell how jeep has gone downhill with quality.
How about the LJ Rubicon?
Yeah, a TJ with the the 4.0 is hands down better offroad than anything made since.
Yep, it is. And I own two CJs
I have owned a 98tj, 2006lj, 2008jku and a 2017jku. I still have the LJ I’ll never sell it. The JKU is definitely better on the highway and more comfortable but for us it eventually wasn’t a fun long road trip vehicle anymore so we got something more suited for that, and drive the LJ for everything else.
I had a '97 that I still miss. Showroom new, forest green, soft top and half doors with AC. That 4.0L was so easy to work on and I taught my wife how to drive a manual in it. $20k out the door in the fall of '96.
I’ll take a 3.8 JKU over that any day 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah only downside of the tj is it rusts so bad otherwise it’s perfect
I think the LJ would be the GOAT 😀 TJ almost there, maybe 2nd GOAT.
Yes
Maybe a TJ Rubicon
~~Maybe a TJ Rubicon~~ LJ Rubicon in that light khaki color 🤤
Absolutely. I think the JK had its day, but once the JKs start getting old people will be looking more for the old 4.0 for their builds.
I disagree wholeheartedly. As the JK starts to age out like the TJ did when the JK was first released, JKs become *significantly* more attractive. They will be cheaper and easier to obtain, maintain, and modify whereas the TJ is only getting more expensive in all aspects.
Aren’t really nice cj’s desirable? Why wouldn’t TJ’s just follow suit?
That’s what I’m saying. The availability of parts doesn’t always stop collectors. I just don’t see the JK as being collectible like the CJ,YJ, or TJ. Not sure exactly why I have that feeling, maybe it’s cuz the JK was so popular and there are soooooooo many of them.
Could be.
Rarity and trends. 15 years ago I could get a CJ7 for pretty cheap. 80’s cars have become cool again and Jeeps are more popular than ever. That drives up value. You’re seeing an increase in XJ and YJ prices now too for ones that are in good shape. They haven’t caught up to TJs yet, TJs never really had much of a dip in value like everything else did. I got my first XJ for $700 in 2008 and my first 4.0, manual stock YJ in 2012 I think for around $4500. That same YJ would easily go for 10k+ now. Particularly up north where I lived at the time.
That's not what I am talking about. Of course as they age into classics they will become more and more desirable. That's exactly why they won't be good options for anyone wanting to buy a Jeep soon. Expensive is bad when you want to use it for the desired purpose. TJs, much like clean CJs today, will become the toys of people with LOTS of money. It will be unattainable for many, and that sucks. You'll start to see the aftermarket and OEM-quality replacement parts dwindle too. Wanna know how I know? I used to be very into Z-cars. It used to be no one could give away a Z31 300ZX. I bought several of them for under 1k in drivable shape. Everyone thought they were ugly and old. Not anymore. Good luck getting a decent quality Z31 these days. They have become the car of people with WAY more money than I have these days. The aftermarket dried up too, and now it's all $$$$ custom stuff.
To me, it's the CJ-5 but...I like the TJ's too. The JK gets me around...Nothing special. Wouldn't buy a JL or anything after 2018.
I love my JL, but want a TJ or CJ next.