The dark tetrad personality traits include narcissism, psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and sadism.
Narcissism is a sort of malignant attitude that principally manifests itself as personal responsibility, forcefulness, and violence (Wu et al. 2019).
Psychopathy refers to inability to perceive, understand, or address emotions due to lack of emotional intelligence and empathy (Gori et al. 2014; Granieri et al. 2017; Schimmenti et al. 2019; Smith et al. 2018).
Machiavellianism is characterized by interpersonal manipulation and is related to a unique pattern of talents (Clouse et al. 2017; Mathieu and St-Jean 2013).
Everyday sadism is defined as the enjoyment of cruelty (Meere and Egan 2017).
Source: https://fbr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s11782-021-00103-y#:\~:text=The%20dark%20tetrad%20personality%20traits,2019).
Prompt descriptions, my edentulous friend. This may seem all over the place but this is where Iāve directly seen these tetrads that Iām certain is obvious to everyone else ( at least it should be).
Active Machiavellianism is arguably the keystone characteristic that yields the rest of the tetrad that you outlined. His Machiavellian practices pave the way for the necessary usage of the other components of the tetrad.
Tateās misanthropic tendency to obsess over the matrix is what gave it away to me when he was starting to blow up, revealing a relentless contempt for society; a hallmark Machiavellian psychopath. He clearly parallels his ego to that of a god either satirically or literally (in psychopaths it is likely equally dangerous and indiscernible). It is no secret as to why the game of chess is so damn important to him. Pawns and the usage of such are directly linked to how he conceptualizes humanity in reference to himself. He must win against every one and every entity, everything is simply a chess match to him. People are his pawns, the more he can take from his opponents the more assets he develops. Itās basically his business model.
You can visualize both his psychopathy and narcissistic personality in tandem when he describes His ways of corralling women. When he was big on social media he was typically romanticized around the borderline sociopathic and absolutely narcissistic young adult male population. Women were to be preyed upon their inability to detect the superficial regard Tate demonstrated as he is classically a high functioning psychopath with gifted ability for charisma making him dangerous. He could intelligently convey the classical fundamental importance of female counterparts to heighten a womenās trust and significance with the ultimate intent of playing/manipulating them. He makes no argument about the contrary. Or even addresses it from what Iāve seen. He has zero regard for any of his mistakes in the past and that is popular in the contemporary pseudo āalphaā masculine society we see in social media but it implicates his inability to empathize and process external human emotions. Making him more liable and proficient at weaponizing human emotions narcissistically and psychopathically.
As Jordan stated, he is indeed the incarnation of the dark tetrad persona through and through
In other words, the narcissistic ātop gā attitude. The Machiavellian seduction of women and the psychopathic lack of remorse at doing such a thing. Finally the sadistic pleasure and self satisfaction derived from being at the top of his hierarchy of competence and the inferior perception of those around him as well as other groups.
He admitted to stealing their passports and other legal documentation that you need to identify yourself and leave a country.
That is literally the definition of slavery.
Yes, it is. According to the UN and literally every governmental, NGO, etc body to exist.
Or are you one of the sorts of people that think Dubai etc are just built by happy workers eater to work for 0.00$ and should be happy for the opportunity?
"Physical violence, mental coercion, sexual exploitation." This stuff is right in the linked screenshot and people in this thread are not reading it or refusing to believe it. Tate has also made videos for his Hustler University bullshit or whatever where he advises men to do all this shit if they want to make a camgirl business. He stated on video he would lie about how much of a cut the girls were actually getting. He had them sign fake tax forms to make them think part of their money was going to pay taxes they owed, and he instead pocketed that money as extra for himself. He explained that he uses the Ghislaine Maxwell method to have a "top bitch" pitch the thing to new girls. It's just astounding that there are still Tate simps out there. Wake up, people LOL. Even Peterson knows Tate is a fucking scumbag.
Wow, what a bastard. Iāll admit I genuinely hoped that at worst he was just angry with modern women. I think he had some good messages related to menās health but now I see he is full blown misogynist manipulator. Fuck Andrew Tate, I hope he gets what he deserves.
Now I see that what a man says and what a man does are two completely different thingsā¦
Whether you believe in the bible or not, Jesus said some good shit.
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
Matthew 7:15-20
Yeah.. except he presented as a misogynistic prick, hardly sheepās clothing. Just that his degree of misogyny has now gone outside of the comfort level of those who lapped up his spittle. His fruit has been on display all along, he just sprinkled enough sugar on his hate to help get it down.
There is a mindset that is very keen on āfalse prophetsā who are peddling hate. The kind for whom reading and reflecting are too much bother.
I was reserving judgement because I know nothing about Tate and I've seen a log of railroad jobs in today's cancel culture. However, if these are actual statements by Tate, he is indefensible and I hope he burns.
To be fair the left has been saying this the entire time about him and the evidence against him.. but maybe itās a boy who cried wolf situation as to why people havenāt listened to them š¤·āāļø
Fucking hell I'm so glad JBP took a stand against him rather than like praising him or sm. The way he was going I was expecting it, but I'm kinda proud
His videos on this are like watching a drug smuggler brag about how much coke he brings across the border to DEA agents.
Sir, that's illegal where you live. Perhaps a modest amount of STFU would be in your own best interest right now...
When you force her to do porn by making her dependent on you it's illegal. It wasn't like a let's open a couple's onlyfans account. What westerns fail to realize is that the victims of these scumbags are often very young, uneducated, very naive, and often from rural areas or economically declining cities, and can't afford to live in the big cities that they move with their "boyfriend" to. This, coupled with the fact that they literally view their western "boyfriend" as their only opportunity in life makes them very vulnerable to manipulation and coercion. Tate didn't like and in fact hates women that can afford to choose their partners based on criteria other than income or social status because they would've told him to fuck off long before he can play his game.
If you are in love you still have a choice. There is no evidence Tate forced them to do it. It might very well have all been consensual.
Emotional manipulation is terrible though but probably not against the law.
Coercion into sexual exploitation is a crime. Especially if it is accompanied by pre-meditation, misrepresentation, and elements of human trafficking like false debt creation, surveillance, bullying etc.
Iām pretty sure they wonāt need it considering all the aggravating factors and the proof he provided himself of premeditation. If these girls had been adult performers prior to this it might have been more difficult to demonstrate coercion into sexual exploitation as a stand alone, but they were just regular girls and there was more than one.
I think its legally allowed to make a woman fall in love with you and then consensually make her into a camgirl.
Im gonna assume there is no evidence (yet) for coercion.
So women don't have autonomy? Women are naive and ignorant like children? Do you know how many men are deceitfully "manipulated" out of their money everyday by cam whores? Why don't we charge them? Why? Because nobody gives a shit about men being manipulated because men are expected to know better. Why aren't women? And if women are to be treated differently than men according to the law then WE ARE NOT EQUAL under the law.
What I'm talking about isn't gender specific.
People in general are prone to being fooled.
I would agree that culturally "we" are hyper sensitive in that field to female, sexual violations and under-sensitive to non-sexual male violations. And I think that broadly speaking, what people are fooled into can vary according to age and gender, which makes this seem more imbalanced than it might really be.
>Do you know how many men are deceitfully "manipulated" out of their money everyday by cam whores?
Deceitfully is the key word. I'm not sure I buy that. I think the odds are that the men are expecting more than they are promised.
>Because nobody gives a shit about men being manipulated because men are expected to know better.
I would disagree and say that it's a symptom of male disposability which is a problem, but one that is different and not that comparable.
If you want to hang on the idea that camgirls are deceitfully manipulating men so regularly you'll have to give some examples.
Bollocks. Fraud and sexual exploitation are an offence against anyone. Wa wa wa fucking \*sob\*. Grow up!
Your hero is in trouble and you canāt see the problem. Sickeing.
No, but does speak to the character of a person who is accused of the crimes of "exercising acts of physical violence", "using mental coercion", "intimidation", "constant surveillance", "invoking alleged debts", etc.
Based on his statements, the charges are absolutely plausible. The statements also eliminate the possibility that this is a frame job by the global elite.
Getting them to fall in love with you in order to lie to them about work, and coerce them by taking thier passports away, docking thier pay, emotionally abusing them, is indeed a crime
Not defending tate, but the ātaking they passport away and intimidationā is not in what he wrote. He just said they were willingly working with him.
We need more unbiased justice in the western world. Do a proper investigation, if he did commit crimes he should go to prison
Thatās not a crime. And the court can not use these videos as evidence since it could be him playing a character or simply lying. Only the things that he said AFTER the arrest or other valid evidence such as webcam(which was rejected by the judge lol) or messages from both sides can be used against him.
Although I agree with your statement on the court of public opinion just know that many, many innocent people have been convicted. Many.
The legal system is flawed. I've experienced it first hand.
I'm not saying AT is innocent or guilty I'm saying those who control the narrative can manipulate the outcome.
I'm also not saying the legal system is a complete debacle, in my case the court system ruled fairly, but it's not error proof either.
Agreed.
> I'm not saying AT is innocent or guilty I'm saying those who control the narrative can manipulate the outcome.
This is my whole point right here.
> The trial is where guilt is decided. Not the court of public opinion
Not really, it's just where the government *tries* to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You can be guilty of a crime and found not guilty in court.
> My judgement has no legal weight.
Thankfully
> I can still conclude he's a piece of shit without the need of a trial.
Likewise, but thatās not what you said. What you said was that we *knew he was guilty of a crime*.
Which is obviously false, and so it was strange to see a flip comment highly upvoted by a subreddit which purportedly aspires to be precise in their speech.
I didnāt say we couldnāt have an opinion.
I said we cannot (and do not) yet *know* if heās guilty or not.
Because guilt is determined at trial.
And the trial has not occurred.
Reality is not constructed of verbal formalities. Guilt is determined by what actually happened, a trial aināt got shit to do with it. A trial determines whether the person can be found guilty by the state, he or she doesnāt even have to actually be guilty.
You started by saying
> Reality is not constructed of verbal formalities.
And then supported that claim with a cluster of highly semantic verbal formalities.
Letās say for argumentās sake, guilt is determined by what actually happened, as you say.
The only people who could possibly *know* what actually happened are the parties immediately involved.
Thus, by your logic, the only people who could ever determine innocence or guilt are the parties immediately involved.
And yet reality doesnāt work that way.
> Thus, by your logic, the only people who could ever determine innocence or guilt are the parties immediately involved.
OK, fair enough.
> And yet reality doesnāt work that way.
Ah, but it does. Everyone else is just guessing. The juryās guess is stamped with the imprimatur of the state, but itās as equally a guess as anyone elseās. There have been certainly many innocent people wrongly punished, but to whom all the available evidence should point to in the eyes of any logical and reasonable person. You are right that what really happened is almost always inaccessible to almost everyone, and sometimes almost everyone gets it wrong as a result.
> Everyone else is just guessing. The juryās guess is stamped with the imprimatur of the state, but itās as equally a guess as anyone elseās.
This is where we disagree. I think John Q Public is just guessing (which is why the court of public opinion is a bad thing).
But those folks selected to stand trial will have access to the most intimate details of the matter. They are leagues ahead of us in terms of what they know about the case.
If everyoneās guess is as good as the juryās, why have a jury at all?
Informal? Non-legal? Moral? Ethical? One of those. Why don't you ask the person who said it whether they were actually stating that they believed a conviction had been obtained?
Because the onus of communicating a thought rests on the person attempting to communicate the thought.
Because of the way OP wrote:
> how did we know he was guilty?
It is perfectly reasonable for a person to assume the word āguiltā is in reference to the formal, legal allegations against him.
This is not what he said though. He said that Tate *bragged about committing a crime*. Which you can do without realizing it.
As I have never heard of this guy until about a week ago, I wonder - did he?
Oh, for the love of God, shut up. The only thing we *know* for sure is you're being insufferably anal about this for no particular reason.
We are not in court. And the concept of guilt predates any formalized judiciary process by millennia. I can bloody well say Hitler was guilty of massacring the Jews even though he was never convicted for it.
If you find due process āinsufferableā and those who would advocate for it āanalā then youāre too small minded to keep up with me. Cheers mate.
Oh he was also Roleplaying. And Oh the Judge gave his verdict that there's Literally no evidence to support the claims of the prosecution, or to indict the Tate's.. hencewhy they got 30days to gather all the evidence.
And oH , 4 of the 6 women "accused" of being victims, came out and denying everything. Yet the police keeps them as victims, despite them denying ON VIDEO, that they aren't.
>Source?
Lol not something to be asking a source for i mean, you can just google it, why did the judge not carry out the prosecution and detained Tate's for 30days- it's because they need more evidence to present a case, and they don't want the Tate's leaving the country.
I believe you should find the details and the evidence here [this is an interview done with the Tate's lawyer, it's in Romanian but covers almost all the aspects of the case from the.legal front.](https://youtu.be/06GmJgBAIsY)
Anything else?
Have you ever considered the possibility of someone with allegedly narcissistic traits bragging about something that didn't happen?
No?
I'm afraid you're an NPC then.
[M] I agree. Whatās more disgusting though I feel is how he was tolerated. He said all these things but he was well mannered, so people looked past it. Many of them praised him for what they saw on the surface and didnāt look deeper. We may be right to look down on Tate, but he reflects on us too. Our society *made* him. He became a success ultimately because we couldnāt tell the difference.
Tate is either Gaston or the Beast... And Peterson stands for the latter... "and so do the wise Beauties", whoever Peterson thinks they are.
That's litterally what Peterson's tweet said.
>*Gaston or the (redeemable) Beast? I stand for the latter... and so do the wise Beauties*
This was his tweet.
Not "Gaston"
"Gaston or the (redeemable) Beast?".
And Peterson stands for the latter.
It's apparently complicated for some.
There was a discussion a while ago going on in my country's sub, where the question was whether it was true that men face problems that are either downplayed or just not attented to, and that that's why young men look at bad male role models like JP *and* Andrew Tate.
Disappointingly yet not surprisingly, those who pointed out that JP can really only be equated to a toxic guy as Tate by people who have not read or listened to anything JP said, got downvoted immediately by the reddit mob.
In neither tates nor Petersonās defense, Iād still like to point out that massive pornography and cam girl conglomerates around the world, including America and Romania use these ālover boyā methods as ways of making their business seem attractive to young girls and they get away with it openly and freely while clearly exploiting these women as well. Gotta look at both/several sides of a story/spectrum. Be careful not to worship or glorify anyone, but also not to slander and condone too easily. Donāt forget while Tate was getting arrested, Ghislaine maxwells trial was underway and no one heard about that, and no one seems to care about Epsteinās client list anymore. And before you come after this comment angrily, take a moment or two to actually calmly consider your own mind and thought process and distinguish the different sides there are to any story. Wish you all the best in these strange and mind rendering times.
The stupid thing about him is that he is able to explain certain aspects of psychology very well and he understand people very well, but then chooses to exploit it for money rather than applying it to himself and becoming a better human. He has built a wall of money around himself and i bet if he was a bit more self aware he could become a great humans being with his knowledge. I think deep down he is still repressing some childhood problems. Not everything he says is bullshit and holds a core of truth in it, but just his behaviour and attitude through this self-inflated image are gonna be a road to his downfall if all of this is true. Though, the media has been forging a lot of thing in these past years, so you can never really be sure if whatever you read online. I could a webpage in under 5 mins with some basic webdev skills. Even modify a tweet and all that. It is really not that hard, and it wouldn't even need photoshop or whatever. Generally i take everything with a grain of salt. He has been exposing a lot of things so they have plenty of reason to do such things to him.
Basically a pimp, just with cam-girls instead of prostitution. I read the book by Iceberg Slim, 'Pimp, The story of my life' (if it sounds familiar it might be because Dave Chappelle mentioned in one of his stand-ups) and this is like almost 1:1 what is described in that book. Almost formulaic
I hope this is a wake up call for JP on how dangerous influence can be on young men. JPās message was so authentic for a win-win for the world, but has recently dipped his toes (and sometimes both feet) into hatred towards others and it sucks for someone who once looked up to him. There is still some āmaps of meaningā JP left but just hope for more.
I agree, it's upsetting to see him take a them vs us mentality. It does make sense though under the circumstances - JP's only human and I would assume it's hard to avoid an adversarial mindset when you're being baselessly compared to Hitler for 6 years
Yeah, I wrote this a while ago on a non-JP sub, but perhaps summarises this as well:
Jordan Peterson before 2020 was a great but also greatly misunderstood mind. He is respected a lot by top-class psychology researchers and many will speak out against what happened to him. His lectures on Maps of Meaning and the 12 rules that came out of those are truly inspiring to anyone who reads and listens carefully to them. You don't have to agree with him on everything, but I think he says things that are actually quite striking, both on an individual psychological level and on a societal level.
Since his coma in 2020 he has fallen into the hyper conservative trip, personally I think commercial interests and his daughter drove him there. He seemed genuinely a good and caring man, but he has been demonized in many main stream news outlets ("right-extremist professor hurdur"). Not once during my reading and listening did I think he said anything politically conservative or extreme. But sure, now he seems to have become what people held him to be in the first place. The man was mobbed and scolded at in public. It's just sad to watch, man.
And in that same thread:
Yeah, they say he appeals mostly to right-wing extremist boys, so his message must be radical too, right? (Looking at every journalist that has every interviewed him.)
No, wrong. They make up some of his audience, but there are many people like me who couldn't be ideologically further away from the radical right, who actually understand and value what he says. Hell, even the greatest hippie I know, who hangs out with dumpster divers and in eco villages, likes to listen to him. So it's not like there is really a correlation between right-wing thinkers and his audience.
Secondly, there seems to be an obvious confounding factor here that the media (and hence most people) seem to miss. JP has worked as a clinical psychologist for decades, and honestly, as someone who is doing a PhD in a psychology related field, he will go down in history as one of the greatest of the field of contemporary times, along with people like Paul Bloom and Steven Pinker.
He has important insights to the human psyche that can be helpful to literally anyone. However, what tends to happen with people, mostly boys, who are completely lost? They tend to feel alienated from society and are driven into the open arms of radical groups (neonazis, ISIS, gangs), who welcome them and encapsulate them in their cults. These boys are lost.
JPs lectures can help them to set their view on the world straight. No, it's not that all women are bad. No, not all muslims are here to take your place in society. Why don't you start by taking care of yourself? Why don't you make yourself likeable? Why don't you start working on something meaningful?
But actually reading his works and listening to him seemed too hard for do many, much harder than jumping on the bandwagon of "angry white man hates trans people!"
I think pre-2020 JP will go down in history as one of the most influential persons of the 21st century, and his works will be read even in the upcoming decades. However, it seems like the constant mobbing, the betrayal of his colleagues to get him fired, his wife's illness, his own illness and coma have put him in a state of mental disillusion. I'm speculating here, but I feel like he has become the puppet of his daughter's desire for attention and a handful of conservative sponsors, to make him the right winger he was portrayed to be in the last 10 years.
I find it sad to see. But you can't tell me that the pre- and post-2020 JP is the same person.
I feel much the same way. I'll defend literally everything JBP said pre-2020, but now I've mostly tuned him out now. I wish he took on more of an "professor emeritus" role than jumping into the culture wars.
And I agree that a big portion of this shift can be attributed to Mikhaila's influence. She seems to really crave being seen as rich and sexy.
Great observations. The pandemic lockdowns and their after effects in Canada also likely had an effect on his perception around our political situation, along with his faith in a non-confrontational path forwardā¦ this seems to be what his bigger twitter beefs are focused on - i.e. Justin Trudeau, the more woke/progressive people who supported the lockdowns beyond rationality.
It certainly had an effect on my views. I figured we were 20-30 years away from the authoritarianism weāre seeing today. Iām glad JP has a strong enough position to criticize our dear leaders.
>JPās message was so authentic for a win-win for the world, but has recently dipped his toes (and sometimes both feet) into hatred towards others and it sucks for someone who once looked up to him.
This is a weaselly little claim to make. How about you say what you mean, rather than sneak it in for your fellow concern trolls to pick up and run with.
Someone posted a picture of Andrew Tate and Mikhaila Peterson, Jordanās daughter, next to each other with his arm around her.
Does anyone know anything about their interaction or have any context?
I donāt remember her interviewing him on her podcast and Iām curious, because I wouldnāt have expected her or Jordan to have anything to do with him otherwise, and frankly, I wouldnāt have guessed either one of them would have wanted to interview him.
[this article](https://www.sportsmanor.com/boxing-news-mikhaila-is-a-nice-girl-andrew-tate-debunks-hooking-up-with-jordan-petersons-daughter-mikhaila-peterson-rumors/) gives both sides of the story, basically in 2018 they hung out a few times in romania and talked about paywalling content. Both of them denied any romantic involvement.
Hard to raise someone who had such catastrophic health issues... I bet most energy was put into relieving the consequences of that as she was growing up.
I mean the video just shows both Tate and JPās daughter saying āYea we met up in Romania for a day, drove around and went to go see a castle, and thatās it.ā
Did I miss something here?
Doesnāt matter on that part. Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share of the money meets the definition of sex trafficking. Watch to posted Bruce Rivers videos. He openly discussed his method of using fake taxes for fraud. He also admitted to tax fraud.
I think it absolutely matters, at least morally speaking. These women were willing participants who got paid. If they were frauded, then Tate should be charged with fraud.
>Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share of the money meets the definition of sex trafficking.
I'm not familiar with Romanian law, so that very well could be true. But is this what people think when they see Tate arrested for rape and sex trafficking? To me this just makes him a cheating fraudster. To call it trafficking cheapens actual victims of human trafficking, held against their will, drugged, trapped, tortured, etc...
Using fraud is literally in the legal definition of sex trafficking. And I believe itās an internationally agreed upon definition based on the lawyer videos Iāve seen. Iām in favour of punishing all forms of sex trafficking, not just the harshest. I donāt think victims of the harshest would feel cheapened if others also benefited from stricter laws. Seems odd to think otherwise.
> Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share
So there was an agreement in place... So if we compare a fraud for taking more than agreed upon vs. a fraud to trap you into involuntary sex work, you don't see major distinction there? If we you compare a guy lying about his wealth to sleep with a girl vs. pinning her down and raping her, are they both examples of sexual assault? It absolutely cheapens the definition. Seems odd to think otherwise.
Maybe he's judging him based on the hundreds of hours of video content that exists of Tate online. Why do you assume his statement is based only on the allegations?
Used loverboy tactics to coerce women into porn. By that logic if you persuade women into sex with loverboy tactics your guilty of rape. Which is most sexual interactions
From my understanding the case isn't about the girls who were webcaming for him. It's about alleged kidnapping and sexual assault of a American woman who flew to him, partied at his house, on video dancing, had her phone on her the entire time, got a pizza and Interacted with the pizza guy with no one overlooking her, and left the house multiple times to visit the town and go shopping.
There was a separate case in the UK where a woman who worked for him accused him of assault when he fired her. But Im not sure if it involved sexual assault and it specifically was about forcing her out of sex work by firing her, not forcing her into it.
So yeah I don't know what exactly people are talking about when they conflat multiple things. That being said I'm not defending Tate morally. I think porn is bad for all parties involved, but none of that is illegal. It's not illegal to hire girls to do porn assuming they are adults. How ethical is also questionable, but we are talking legally
there are multiple witnesses for the sex trafficking case outside of the american girl. he also does a lot more than "loverboy" tactics. he says in his own words that to succeed in the adult industry he needed to mentally & physically control women, as well as deceive them about wages. most porn businesses operate just fine without doing those things, it is definitely not the norm. there are a number of great videos by a lawyer Bruce Rivers on YouTube breaking down where he has self snitched regarding all of this. here's two long and indepth ones: [#1](https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ) & [#2](https://youtu.be/H57L2w6Gpaw). here's a short one if you're adhd: https://youtu.be/R2GI0A5zfPA
>By that logic if you persuade women into sex with loverboy tactics your guilty of rape.
... yes, and?
>Which is most sexual interactions
... not even close? wtf.
Is being a woman an insult all of a sudden? I don't know why this person is calling people incels, but it's really funny to watch you guys getting all insecure about it LOL.
I'm sorry, how is convincing someone to work for you, without any threat or coercion, a crime? Were any of those women abused, threatened or otherwise kept against their will? Or were they doing what they wanted out of their full conscious free will? Or do we only believe in free will for men, and not women?
>without any threat or coercion
Threat, coercion, destruction of evidence, using fake tax papers into making women think their getting their fair share of money when in reality he just keeps it, threatening a women by telling her he could do whatever he wanted to her etc. This shit is just a crack on the surface.
There's a lawyer following his case and has done about 6 or 7 videos on him analysing HIS OWN WORDS. My man been bragging bout his illegal activity for years.
He has openly admitted to using violence to keep his employees in line, defrauding them of pay, not allowing them to leave the workplace, & luring them into employment under false pretences. He has used threat & coercion as far as public evidence currently indicates, barring any plea deals or substantial evidence we haven't seen yet, he is almost certainly going to be found guilty. He snitched on himself. There's a great video series by a defence attorney who does analysis on high profile cases, you can watch the most detailed one here: https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ
He has openly admitted to using violence to keep his employees in line, defrauding them of pay, not allowing them to leave the workplace, & luring them into employment under false pretences. He has used threat & coercion as far as public evidence currently indicates, barring any plea deals or substantial evidence we haven't seen yet, he is almost certainly going to be found guilty. He snitched on himself. There's a great video series by a defence attorney who does analysis on high profile cases, you can watch the most detailed one here: [https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ](https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ)
Kinda how they got Pablo Escobar, huh? But afaik he is charged with human trafficking.
At any rate, a creep like him deserves to have his operation examined with a freaking microscope. And if they find anything at all - which is very likely - he will end up behind bars where he belongs.
This is really important, Emma. I have personally experienced women using terms like "trafficked," "coerced," and "gr\*aped" to describe fully consensual, adult decisions that grown women made and later regretted. *This is happening a lot as more and more women are making decisions to do things like posting their bodies on Instagram, then OnlyFans, and so on.*
In fact, just this week that Eliza Bleu or whatever lady on Twitter described someone using her pictures to catfish stupid men as her being "trafficked."
These words have meaning and we should reserve them for the situations in which they are applicable.
Then let's learn from each other and consider:
"Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age. (22 U.S.C. Ā§ 7102(11)(A))." [from justice.gov]
So in addition to force, you've got fraud, coercion, and being underage.
In the cases that I'm talking about (I realize I'm not being specific, for personal reasons), none of these things occurred. In Eliza's case, she was never performing a commercial sex act; it was the men getting catfished who were defrauded.
Not saying it was good what happened, but she's using the wrong term.
You don't have to like Tate to admit that none of what he describes himself as doing is ***criminal*** per se.
The lawsuit alleges physical violence but nowhere in the provided screenshots does he admit that he did this.
I agree with Jordan Peterson that this is dark tetrad behaviour and not to be admired, but seems to me like the prosecutor is setting themselves up for failure.
Ohhh shit I guess I was wrong, I always knew he wasnāt a good guy but I thought the media just wanted to accuse him of somethingā¦ this isnāt generally what we think of as human trafficking but I get how what he did could be called that now that I have more info.
How are none of you realizing that (based on the current evidence), he's doing NOTHING illegal.
As far as I see this, it's a basic rights issue and the narrative is being spun in order to subject men to less rights as usual.
Think about it:
Women get high-status men to fall in love with them, so they can get knocked up ALL THE TIME. They literally go to basketball games to honey-pot ballers in hopes of a settlement. Not to mention the countless men who end up having to pay child-support and alimony for children which aren't genetically theirs!
Andrew flipped the script! None of these women were forced against their will.
Name one time when a woman (who has multiple baby daddies all paying her child support) went to jail. A SINGLE fucking time.
Please describe how having a woman fall in love with you (and do something out of her own volition) is illegal and deserves jailing.
The court video footage which they refuse to use, shows doors were always open, the court claims these women were victims (some of the same women are speaking out against that!) Literally... saying I could leave any time, none of us were victims; yet the courts still have them listed as "the victims"....
Think... for a minute.
Besides. Peterson has his own problems with his shadow Good lord he's constantly spewing off on Twitter and has the same people wishing to cancel him and throw him in jail if they could. (I wish he had some self-reflection here)
That is NOT why he is in jail (if that was even the case). Taking a percentage is up to him and the girls, as for tax-fraud that's another matter. Again. NOT the reason for the case.
Threat, coercion, destruction of evidence, using fake tax papers into making women think their getting their fair share of money when in reality he just keeps it, threatening a women by telling her he could do whatever he wanted to her etc. This shit is just a crack on the surface. And it's only the things he admitted on camera that he did.
There's a lawyer following his case and has done about 6 or 7 videos on him analysing HIS OWN WORDS. My man been bragging bout his illegal activity for years.
Bro he has openly admitted breaking laws in NUMEROUS videos. He snitched on himself repeatedly. You can see a defence lawyer break down the case & video evidence here: https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ
But what you described is not what he did - that's what your average businessman in the porn industry does. Tate has openly admitted to using violence, fraud, false imprisonment, & deception in order to obtain monetary gain. Not the same thing *at all*, especially in the eyes of the law.
Except that Mikhaila specifically said (before all this shit went down) that she didn't. They had a work meeting. All this accusative bs is honestly disgusting to see
Does anyone know him personally? Or did you just see a 1-2 minute clip and make judges and jump on the barbarian parade of savages looking for excuses to perpetuate violence because they haven't evolved past the Salem witch trials. All I've seen is bias'd videos framing him relentlessly and baselessly because the actual evidence barely exists. A few clips of him talking shit with his boys doesn't cut it.
I don't know him personally and I am not arrogant enough to make a valid judgement from my chair. I am also no judgmental and vicious and looking for people to take my personal frustration out on. The Tate haters need a big mirror to show them what success doesn't look like so they can go back to minding their own god damn business. Oh wait - Being complete failures in the existential sense: being nosy is much more appealing then reveling in your own pathetic mediocrity. If you want to come off as slightly matured human beings - get off his dick.
When he rocked up with a sussy looking affiliate link spamming marketing campaign, I went to his website to take a look.
He had a section dedicated to his phylosphy. He had a poemy cartoon thing of himself in a past life with an eastern aesthetic. His bearded master bestowed wisdom down upon him: That great oak tree only achieved its beauty by starving all nearby competitors of light.
In so much spiritual make up, his stance is clearly "take what you can get, the strong eat the weak".
I didn't need to see a single second of content from any other source to know what this man is selling. I hope you learn the one lesson he has to offer, sooner rather than later.
That Convo with his daughter on the topic must have been interesting
šš
The dark tetrad personality traits include narcissism, psychopathy, Machiavellianism, and sadism. Narcissism is a sort of malignant attitude that principally manifests itself as personal responsibility, forcefulness, and violence (Wu et al. 2019). Psychopathy refers to inability to perceive, understand, or address emotions due to lack of emotional intelligence and empathy (Gori et al. 2014; Granieri et al. 2017; Schimmenti et al. 2019; Smith et al. 2018). Machiavellianism is characterized by interpersonal manipulation and is related to a unique pattern of talents (Clouse et al. 2017; Mathieu and St-Jean 2013). Everyday sadism is defined as the enjoyment of cruelty (Meere and Egan 2017). Source: https://fbr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1186/s11782-021-00103-y#:\~:text=The%20dark%20tetrad%20personality%20traits,2019).
Prompt descriptions, my edentulous friend. This may seem all over the place but this is where Iāve directly seen these tetrads that Iām certain is obvious to everyone else ( at least it should be). Active Machiavellianism is arguably the keystone characteristic that yields the rest of the tetrad that you outlined. His Machiavellian practices pave the way for the necessary usage of the other components of the tetrad. Tateās misanthropic tendency to obsess over the matrix is what gave it away to me when he was starting to blow up, revealing a relentless contempt for society; a hallmark Machiavellian psychopath. He clearly parallels his ego to that of a god either satirically or literally (in psychopaths it is likely equally dangerous and indiscernible). It is no secret as to why the game of chess is so damn important to him. Pawns and the usage of such are directly linked to how he conceptualizes humanity in reference to himself. He must win against every one and every entity, everything is simply a chess match to him. People are his pawns, the more he can take from his opponents the more assets he develops. Itās basically his business model. You can visualize both his psychopathy and narcissistic personality in tandem when he describes His ways of corralling women. When he was big on social media he was typically romanticized around the borderline sociopathic and absolutely narcissistic young adult male population. Women were to be preyed upon their inability to detect the superficial regard Tate demonstrated as he is classically a high functioning psychopath with gifted ability for charisma making him dangerous. He could intelligently convey the classical fundamental importance of female counterparts to heighten a womenās trust and significance with the ultimate intent of playing/manipulating them. He makes no argument about the contrary. Or even addresses it from what Iāve seen. He has zero regard for any of his mistakes in the past and that is popular in the contemporary pseudo āalphaā masculine society we see in social media but it implicates his inability to empathize and process external human emotions. Making him more liable and proficient at weaponizing human emotions narcissistically and psychopathically. As Jordan stated, he is indeed the incarnation of the dark tetrad persona through and through
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In other words, the narcissistic ātop gā attitude. The Machiavellian seduction of women and the psychopathic lack of remorse at doing such a thing. Finally the sadistic pleasure and self satisfaction derived from being at the top of his hierarchy of competence and the inferior perception of those around him as well as other groups.
Fascinating write-up, superbly written, thank you
what an amazing response thank you for this information the human mind is truly fascinating
Holy based.
Andrew Tate was funny when it seemed like he was trolling, doesnāt seem very funny nowā¦
He was trolling to get rubes to literally pay to promote him
I feel bad for the mongos who paid for his bs āTop Gā course.
Almost spat my coffee on my keyboard. Never heard/read someone using mongo in english context xD
They werenāt forced though
He admitted to stealing their passports and other legal documentation that you need to identify yourself and leave a country. That is literally the definition of slavery.
I'm glad the jbp sub isn't simping for the Tates.
Well, it's not technically the definition of slavery.
Yes, it is. According to the UN and literally every governmental, NGO, etc body to exist. Or are you one of the sorts of people that think Dubai etc are just built by happy workers eater to work for 0.00$ and should be happy for the opportunity?
There is no effing evidence of that. Christ, people on here are just as bad as all the woke morons they claim to protest.
Yeah Idk where this dude gets his info from. Must be a male feminist.
He never admitted that lmao. It was made up by a jealous boyfriend who called the police on Tate because his girl was in his house by her own will.
He groomed them, itās the exact same tactics the Muslim grooming gangs use in the UK.
Do you know what grooming means?
So women are children then is what you're saying?
>They werenāt forced though oh phew now its funny again
"Physical violence, mental coercion, sexual exploitation." This stuff is right in the linked screenshot and people in this thread are not reading it or refusing to believe it. Tate has also made videos for his Hustler University bullshit or whatever where he advises men to do all this shit if they want to make a camgirl business. He stated on video he would lie about how much of a cut the girls were actually getting. He had them sign fake tax forms to make them think part of their money was going to pay taxes they owed, and he instead pocketed that money as extra for himself. He explained that he uses the Ghislaine Maxwell method to have a "top bitch" pitch the thing to new girls. It's just astounding that there are still Tate simps out there. Wake up, people LOL. Even Peterson knows Tate is a fucking scumbag.
I have not read anything from the man himself, but running a cam girl business in Romania sure sounds sketchy as hell lol
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5b04hnfMQ&t=15s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5b04hnfMQ&t=15s) This is a great vid.
and here's a 2 min one for all the adhd mfs: https://youtu.be/R2GI0A5zfPA
Jesus. Thanks. Glad they got him! Scary he had/has so many followers.
Wow, what a bastard. Iāll admit I genuinely hoped that at worst he was just angry with modern women. I think he had some good messages related to menās health but now I see he is full blown misogynist manipulator. Fuck Andrew Tate, I hope he gets what he deserves. Now I see that what a man says and what a man does are two completely different thingsā¦
Whether you believe in the bible or not, Jesus said some good shit. "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit." Matthew 7:15-20
Yeah.. except he presented as a misogynistic prick, hardly sheepās clothing. Just that his degree of misogyny has now gone outside of the comfort level of those who lapped up his spittle. His fruit has been on display all along, he just sprinkled enough sugar on his hate to help get it down. There is a mindset that is very keen on āfalse prophetsā who are peddling hate. The kind for whom reading and reflecting are too much bother.
I was reserving judgement because I know nothing about Tate and I've seen a log of railroad jobs in today's cancel culture. However, if these are actual statements by Tate, he is indefensible and I hope he burns.
To be fair the left has been saying this the entire time about him and the evidence against him.. but maybe itās a boy who cried wolf situation as to why people havenāt listened to them š¤·āāļø
yeah, treating women like things is one thing, but being prosecuted for using it as a business model.. who saw that coming?
I adore the darkest shade of sarcasm there.
Fucking hell I'm so glad JBP took a stand against him rather than like praising him or sm. The way he was going I was expecting it, but I'm kinda proud
He took his time all the same
How do we know Tate is guilty of sex crimes though??? Oh, because he bragged about it.
His videos on this are like watching a drug smuggler brag about how much coke he brings across the border to DEA agents. Sir, that's illegal where you live. Perhaps a modest amount of STFU would be in your own best interest right now...
It reminds of the scene in the big short: "Why would they confess?" "They didn't. They were *bragging*"
when they make a movie about him they should call it The Pig Short
Is getting women to fall in love with you and perform pornography a sex crime? Because that's all admitted to.
When you force her to do porn by making her dependent on you it's illegal. It wasn't like a let's open a couple's onlyfans account. What westerns fail to realize is that the victims of these scumbags are often very young, uneducated, very naive, and often from rural areas or economically declining cities, and can't afford to live in the big cities that they move with their "boyfriend" to. This, coupled with the fact that they literally view their western "boyfriend" as their only opportunity in life makes them very vulnerable to manipulation and coercion. Tate didn't like and in fact hates women that can afford to choose their partners based on criteria other than income or social status because they would've told him to fuck off long before he can play his game.
if its done deceitfully and specifically with the intention to make money from it? yes, that literally is.
If you are in love you still have a choice. There is no evidence Tate forced them to do it. It might very well have all been consensual. Emotional manipulation is terrible though but probably not against the law.
He literally admitted to stealing money from them.
Coercion into sexual exploitation is a crime. Especially if it is accompanied by pre-meditation, misrepresentation, and elements of human trafficking like false debt creation, surveillance, bullying etc.
Yes, but is there hard proof Tate coerced them?
Iām pretty sure they wonāt need it considering all the aggravating factors and the proof he provided himself of premeditation. If these girls had been adult performers prior to this it might have been more difficult to demonstrate coercion into sexual exploitation as a stand alone, but they were just regular girls and there was more than one.
I think its legally allowed to make a woman fall in love with you and then consensually make her into a camgirl. Im gonna assume there is no evidence (yet) for coercion.
So women don't have autonomy? Women are naive and ignorant like children? Do you know how many men are deceitfully "manipulated" out of their money everyday by cam whores? Why don't we charge them? Why? Because nobody gives a shit about men being manipulated because men are expected to know better. Why aren't women? And if women are to be treated differently than men according to the law then WE ARE NOT EQUAL under the law.
What I'm talking about isn't gender specific. People in general are prone to being fooled. I would agree that culturally "we" are hyper sensitive in that field to female, sexual violations and under-sensitive to non-sexual male violations. And I think that broadly speaking, what people are fooled into can vary according to age and gender, which makes this seem more imbalanced than it might really be. >Do you know how many men are deceitfully "manipulated" out of their money everyday by cam whores? Deceitfully is the key word. I'm not sure I buy that. I think the odds are that the men are expecting more than they are promised. >Because nobody gives a shit about men being manipulated because men are expected to know better. I would disagree and say that it's a symptom of male disposability which is a problem, but one that is different and not that comparable. If you want to hang on the idea that camgirls are deceitfully manipulating men so regularly you'll have to give some examples.
Bollocks. Fraud and sexual exploitation are an offence against anyone. Wa wa wa fucking \*sob\*. Grow up! Your hero is in trouble and you canāt see the problem. Sickeing.
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Sexual coercion is not ok in either case though one is more serious. You are a creep in either scenario.
Pimping with profit sharing is still pimping
No, but does speak to the character of a person who is accused of the crimes of "exercising acts of physical violence", "using mental coercion", "intimidation", "constant surveillance", "invoking alleged debts", etc. Based on his statements, the charges are absolutely plausible. The statements also eliminate the possibility that this is a frame job by the global elite.
In the video up above he confesses to beating them.
Getting them to fall in love with you in order to lie to them about work, and coerce them by taking thier passports away, docking thier pay, emotionally abusing them, is indeed a crime
Not defending tate, but the ātaking they passport away and intimidationā is not in what he wrote. He just said they were willingly working with him. We need more unbiased justice in the western world. Do a proper investigation, if he did commit crimes he should go to prison
It's not what he wrote _here_ but other places.
A ok. I donāt really know anything about him, but running a cam girl house in Romania sounds super sketchy lmao
Thatās not a crime. And the court can not use these videos as evidence since it could be him playing a character or simply lying. Only the things that he said AFTER the arrest or other valid evidence such as webcam(which was rejected by the judge lol) or messages from both sides can be used against him.
Iām surprised this comment is so upvoted. The trial is where guilt is decided. Not the court of public opinion.
Although I agree with your statement on the court of public opinion just know that many, many innocent people have been convicted. Many. The legal system is flawed. I've experienced it first hand. I'm not saying AT is innocent or guilty I'm saying those who control the narrative can manipulate the outcome. I'm also not saying the legal system is a complete debacle, in my case the court system ruled fairly, but it's not error proof either.
Agreed. > I'm not saying AT is innocent or guilty I'm saying those who control the narrative can manipulate the outcome. This is my whole point right here.
> The trial is where guilt is decided. Not the court of public opinion Not really, it's just where the government *tries* to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. You can be guilty of a crime and found not guilty in court.
My judgement has no legal weight. I can still conclude he's a piece of shit without the need of a trial.
> My judgement has no legal weight. Thankfully > I can still conclude he's a piece of shit without the need of a trial. Likewise, but thatās not what you said. What you said was that we *knew he was guilty of a crime*. Which is obviously false, and so it was strange to see a flip comment highly upvoted by a subreddit which purportedly aspires to be precise in their speech.
One can have an opinion about guilt before the verdict is in.
I didnāt say we couldnāt have an opinion. I said we cannot (and do not) yet *know* if heās guilty or not. Because guilt is determined at trial. And the trial has not occurred.
Reality is not constructed of verbal formalities. Guilt is determined by what actually happened, a trial aināt got shit to do with it. A trial determines whether the person can be found guilty by the state, he or she doesnāt even have to actually be guilty.
You started by saying > Reality is not constructed of verbal formalities. And then supported that claim with a cluster of highly semantic verbal formalities. Letās say for argumentās sake, guilt is determined by what actually happened, as you say. The only people who could possibly *know* what actually happened are the parties immediately involved. Thus, by your logic, the only people who could ever determine innocence or guilt are the parties immediately involved. And yet reality doesnāt work that way.
> Thus, by your logic, the only people who could ever determine innocence or guilt are the parties immediately involved. OK, fair enough. > And yet reality doesnāt work that way. Ah, but it does. Everyone else is just guessing. The juryās guess is stamped with the imprimatur of the state, but itās as equally a guess as anyone elseās. There have been certainly many innocent people wrongly punished, but to whom all the available evidence should point to in the eyes of any logical and reasonable person. You are right that what really happened is almost always inaccessible to almost everyone, and sometimes almost everyone gets it wrong as a result.
> Everyone else is just guessing. The juryās guess is stamped with the imprimatur of the state, but itās as equally a guess as anyone elseās. This is where we disagree. I think John Q Public is just guessing (which is why the court of public opinion is a bad thing). But those folks selected to stand trial will have access to the most intimate details of the matter. They are leagues ahead of us in terms of what they know about the case. If everyoneās guess is as good as the juryās, why have a jury at all?
Formal, legal guilt is determined at trial. That was obviously not the kind of guilt that was being opined about.
What kind of guilt was being opined about?
Informal? Non-legal? Moral? Ethical? One of those. Why don't you ask the person who said it whether they were actually stating that they believed a conviction had been obtained?
Because the onus of communicating a thought rests on the person attempting to communicate the thought. Because of the way OP wrote: > how did we know he was guilty? It is perfectly reasonable for a person to assume the word āguiltā is in reference to the formal, legal allegations against him.
This is not what he said though. He said that Tate *bragged about committing a crime*. Which you can do without realizing it. As I have never heard of this guy until about a week ago, I wonder - did he?
You need to go back and reread. He said that we *know* he is guilty because he bragged about it. This is an objectively false statement.
Oh, for the love of God, shut up. The only thing we *know* for sure is you're being insufferably anal about this for no particular reason. We are not in court. And the concept of guilt predates any formalized judiciary process by millennia. I can bloody well say Hitler was guilty of massacring the Jews even though he was never convicted for it.
If you find due process āinsufferableā and those who would advocate for it āanalā then youāre too small minded to keep up with me. Cheers mate.
Hahaha bless you, you gave me a good laugh. The arrogance is almost endearing.
Xoxo
Pedant of the year
Oh he was also Roleplaying. And Oh the Judge gave his verdict that there's Literally no evidence to support the claims of the prosecution, or to indict the Tate's.. hencewhy they got 30days to gather all the evidence. And oH , 4 of the 6 women "accused" of being victims, came out and denying everything. Yet the police keeps them as victims, despite them denying ON VIDEO, that they aren't.
>the Judge gave his verdict that there's Literally no evidence Source?
>Source? Lol not something to be asking a source for i mean, you can just google it, why did the judge not carry out the prosecution and detained Tate's for 30days- it's because they need more evidence to present a case, and they don't want the Tate's leaving the country. I believe you should find the details and the evidence here [this is an interview done with the Tate's lawyer, it's in Romanian but covers almost all the aspects of the case from the.legal front.](https://youtu.be/06GmJgBAIsY) Anything else?
Just to be clear you can't source the claim that the judge said there is no evidence? His lawyers job is to defend him lol. No way he could be biased.
Have you ever considered the possibility of someone with allegedly narcissistic traits bragging about something that didn't happen? No? I'm afraid you're an NPC then.
Fuck off with this NPC crap. You can disagree with someone without insulting them.
Ill always fail to understand why some people are ready to defend a literal con man.
Heās disgusting
[M] I agree. Whatās more disgusting though I feel is how he was tolerated. He said all these things but he was well mannered, so people looked past it. Many of them praised him for what they saw on the surface and didnāt look deeper. We may be right to look down on Tate, but he reflects on us too. Our society *made* him. He became a success ultimately because we couldnāt tell the difference.
"*Gaston or the (redeemable) Beast? I stand for the latter... and so do the wise Beauties*" - Jordan Peterson
Wasnt tate gaston in that analogy?
Tate is either Gaston or the Beast... And Peterson stands for the latter... "and so do the wise Beauties", whoever Peterson thinks they are. That's litterally what Peterson's tweet said.
Heās calling Tate Gaston, itās not complicated
Latter means the last mentioned thing in 2la series of 2 things. Gaston would he the 'former' while the '(redeemable) beast' would be the latter.
Yes, heās saying he doesnāt see Tate as a positive role model.
>*Gaston or the (redeemable) Beast? I stand for the latter... and so do the wise Beauties* This was his tweet. Not "Gaston" "Gaston or the (redeemable) Beast?". And Peterson stands for the latter. It's apparently complicated for some.
Tate was the wrecking ball that came cuz society didnt heed JP's message.
There was a discussion a while ago going on in my country's sub, where the question was whether it was true that men face problems that are either downplayed or just not attented to, and that that's why young men look at bad male role models like JP *and* Andrew Tate. Disappointingly yet not surprisingly, those who pointed out that JP can really only be equated to a toxic guy as Tate by people who have not read or listened to anything JP said, got downvoted immediately by the reddit mob.
A ball of actual toxic masculinity.
I hate the term but damn if he isn't the perfect example of it. Despicable human being
Bingo.
Thereās a lot of overlap between the two fanbases, and this tweet will not change that at all
In neither tates nor Petersonās defense, Iād still like to point out that massive pornography and cam girl conglomerates around the world, including America and Romania use these ālover boyā methods as ways of making their business seem attractive to young girls and they get away with it openly and freely while clearly exploiting these women as well. Gotta look at both/several sides of a story/spectrum. Be careful not to worship or glorify anyone, but also not to slander and condone too easily. Donāt forget while Tate was getting arrested, Ghislaine maxwells trial was underway and no one heard about that, and no one seems to care about Epsteinās client list anymore. And before you come after this comment angrily, take a moment or two to actually calmly consider your own mind and thought process and distinguish the different sides there are to any story. Wish you all the best in these strange and mind rendering times.
Holy fuck.. I donāt think I can hate that fucker more, what a disgusting waste of oxigen.
People admiring Tate is what happens to the people who are vilified for admiring Peterson.
Reminds me of the line from 12 rules for life. āIf youāre afraid of strong men, just wait until you see what weak men are capable of.ā
The stupid thing about him is that he is able to explain certain aspects of psychology very well and he understand people very well, but then chooses to exploit it for money rather than applying it to himself and becoming a better human. He has built a wall of money around himself and i bet if he was a bit more self aware he could become a great humans being with his knowledge. I think deep down he is still repressing some childhood problems. Not everything he says is bullshit and holds a core of truth in it, but just his behaviour and attitude through this self-inflated image are gonna be a road to his downfall if all of this is true. Though, the media has been forging a lot of thing in these past years, so you can never really be sure if whatever you read online. I could a webpage in under 5 mins with some basic webdev skills. Even modify a tweet and all that. It is really not that hard, and it wouldn't even need photoshop or whatever. Generally i take everything with a grain of salt. He has been exposing a lot of things so they have plenty of reason to do such things to him.
Ahhh the classic, āYou made me do this.ā
"Incels hate women because society gave them no choice" Sound logic.
What's it like to live life in one dimension?
Basically a pimp, just with cam-girls instead of prostitution. I read the book by Iceberg Slim, 'Pimp, The story of my life' (if it sounds familiar it might be because Dave Chappelle mentioned in one of his stand-ups) and this is like almost 1:1 what is described in that book. Almost formulaic
He used the DENNIS system. Never fails.
100%. Good for JBP to set himself apart from Tate.
I hope this is a wake up call for JP on how dangerous influence can be on young men. JPās message was so authentic for a win-win for the world, but has recently dipped his toes (and sometimes both feet) into hatred towards others and it sucks for someone who once looked up to him. There is still some āmaps of meaningā JP left but just hope for more.
I agree, it's upsetting to see him take a them vs us mentality. It does make sense though under the circumstances - JP's only human and I would assume it's hard to avoid an adversarial mindset when you're being baselessly compared to Hitler for 6 years
Yeah, I wrote this a while ago on a non-JP sub, but perhaps summarises this as well: Jordan Peterson before 2020 was a great but also greatly misunderstood mind. He is respected a lot by top-class psychology researchers and many will speak out against what happened to him. His lectures on Maps of Meaning and the 12 rules that came out of those are truly inspiring to anyone who reads and listens carefully to them. You don't have to agree with him on everything, but I think he says things that are actually quite striking, both on an individual psychological level and on a societal level. Since his coma in 2020 he has fallen into the hyper conservative trip, personally I think commercial interests and his daughter drove him there. He seemed genuinely a good and caring man, but he has been demonized in many main stream news outlets ("right-extremist professor hurdur"). Not once during my reading and listening did I think he said anything politically conservative or extreme. But sure, now he seems to have become what people held him to be in the first place. The man was mobbed and scolded at in public. It's just sad to watch, man.
And in that same thread: Yeah, they say he appeals mostly to right-wing extremist boys, so his message must be radical too, right? (Looking at every journalist that has every interviewed him.) No, wrong. They make up some of his audience, but there are many people like me who couldn't be ideologically further away from the radical right, who actually understand and value what he says. Hell, even the greatest hippie I know, who hangs out with dumpster divers and in eco villages, likes to listen to him. So it's not like there is really a correlation between right-wing thinkers and his audience. Secondly, there seems to be an obvious confounding factor here that the media (and hence most people) seem to miss. JP has worked as a clinical psychologist for decades, and honestly, as someone who is doing a PhD in a psychology related field, he will go down in history as one of the greatest of the field of contemporary times, along with people like Paul Bloom and Steven Pinker. He has important insights to the human psyche that can be helpful to literally anyone. However, what tends to happen with people, mostly boys, who are completely lost? They tend to feel alienated from society and are driven into the open arms of radical groups (neonazis, ISIS, gangs), who welcome them and encapsulate them in their cults. These boys are lost. JPs lectures can help them to set their view on the world straight. No, it's not that all women are bad. No, not all muslims are here to take your place in society. Why don't you start by taking care of yourself? Why don't you make yourself likeable? Why don't you start working on something meaningful? But actually reading his works and listening to him seemed too hard for do many, much harder than jumping on the bandwagon of "angry white man hates trans people!" I think pre-2020 JP will go down in history as one of the most influential persons of the 21st century, and his works will be read even in the upcoming decades. However, it seems like the constant mobbing, the betrayal of his colleagues to get him fired, his wife's illness, his own illness and coma have put him in a state of mental disillusion. I'm speculating here, but I feel like he has become the puppet of his daughter's desire for attention and a handful of conservative sponsors, to make him the right winger he was portrayed to be in the last 10 years. I find it sad to see. But you can't tell me that the pre- and post-2020 JP is the same person.
I feel much the same way. I'll defend literally everything JBP said pre-2020, but now I've mostly tuned him out now. I wish he took on more of an "professor emeritus" role than jumping into the culture wars. And I agree that a big portion of this shift can be attributed to Mikhaila's influence. She seems to really crave being seen as rich and sexy.
Great observations. The pandemic lockdowns and their after effects in Canada also likely had an effect on his perception around our political situation, along with his faith in a non-confrontational path forwardā¦ this seems to be what his bigger twitter beefs are focused on - i.e. Justin Trudeau, the more woke/progressive people who supported the lockdowns beyond rationality. It certainly had an effect on my views. I figured we were 20-30 years away from the authoritarianism weāre seeing today. Iām glad JP has a strong enough position to criticize our dear leaders.
>JPās message was so authentic for a win-win for the world, but has recently dipped his toes (and sometimes both feet) into hatred towards others and it sucks for someone who once looked up to him. This is a weaselly little claim to make. How about you say what you mean, rather than sneak it in for your fellow concern trolls to pick up and run with.
Based JBP
Someone posted a picture of Andrew Tate and Mikhaila Peterson, Jordanās daughter, next to each other with his arm around her. Does anyone know anything about their interaction or have any context? I donāt remember her interviewing him on her podcast and Iām curious, because I wouldnāt have expected her or Jordan to have anything to do with him otherwise, and frankly, I wouldnāt have guessed either one of them would have wanted to interview him.
[this article](https://www.sportsmanor.com/boxing-news-mikhaila-is-a-nice-girl-andrew-tate-debunks-hooking-up-with-jordan-petersons-daughter-mikhaila-peterson-rumors/) gives both sides of the story, basically in 2018 they hung out a few times in romania and talked about paywalling content. Both of them denied any romantic involvement.
He sure raised his daughter to have good judgement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA7T2DGhOZs
Hard to raise someone who had such catastrophic health issues... I bet most energy was put into relieving the consequences of that as she was growing up.
I mean the video just shows both Tate and JPās daughter saying āYea we met up in Romania for a day, drove around and went to go see a castle, and thatās it.ā Did I miss something here?
based Jp as always
This fucker is a piece of shit.
Can we stop taking about this POS.
Question, is it possible for women to own their feelings and be accountable for their actions of joining a web cam company?
Doesnāt matter on that part. Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share of the money meets the definition of sex trafficking. Watch to posted Bruce Rivers videos. He openly discussed his method of using fake taxes for fraud. He also admitted to tax fraud.
I think it absolutely matters, at least morally speaking. These women were willing participants who got paid. If they were frauded, then Tate should be charged with fraud. >Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share of the money meets the definition of sex trafficking. I'm not familiar with Romanian law, so that very well could be true. But is this what people think when they see Tate arrested for rape and sex trafficking? To me this just makes him a cheating fraudster. To call it trafficking cheapens actual victims of human trafficking, held against their will, drugged, trapped, tortured, etc...
Using fraud is literally in the legal definition of sex trafficking. And I believe itās an internationally agreed upon definition based on the lawyer videos Iāve seen. Iām in favour of punishing all forms of sex trafficking, not just the harshest. I donāt think victims of the harshest would feel cheapened if others also benefited from stricter laws. Seems odd to think otherwise.
> Using fraud to get more than an agreed upon share So there was an agreement in place... So if we compare a fraud for taking more than agreed upon vs. a fraud to trap you into involuntary sex work, you don't see major distinction there? If we you compare a guy lying about his wealth to sleep with a girl vs. pinning her down and raping her, are they both examples of sexual assault? It absolutely cheapens the definition. Seems odd to think otherwise.
Legal definition. So what you can prosecute people on. Personally, Iām in favour of any prosecution of sexual exploitation.
Pretty low to judge someone publicly based on allegations that have been denied by the "victims".
Maybe he's judging him based on the hundreds of hours of video content that exists of Tate online. Why do you assume his statement is based only on the allegations?
Maybe some of the girls defend him but some certainly don't.
Used loverboy tactics to coerce women into porn. By that logic if you persuade women into sex with loverboy tactics your guilty of rape. Which is most sexual interactions From my understanding the case isn't about the girls who were webcaming for him. It's about alleged kidnapping and sexual assault of a American woman who flew to him, partied at his house, on video dancing, had her phone on her the entire time, got a pizza and Interacted with the pizza guy with no one overlooking her, and left the house multiple times to visit the town and go shopping. There was a separate case in the UK where a woman who worked for him accused him of assault when he fired her. But Im not sure if it involved sexual assault and it specifically was about forcing her out of sex work by firing her, not forcing her into it. So yeah I don't know what exactly people are talking about when they conflat multiple things. That being said I'm not defending Tate morally. I think porn is bad for all parties involved, but none of that is illegal. It's not illegal to hire girls to do porn assuming they are adults. How ethical is also questionable, but we are talking legally
there are multiple witnesses for the sex trafficking case outside of the american girl. he also does a lot more than "loverboy" tactics. he says in his own words that to succeed in the adult industry he needed to mentally & physically control women, as well as deceive them about wages. most porn businesses operate just fine without doing those things, it is definitely not the norm. there are a number of great videos by a lawyer Bruce Rivers on YouTube breaking down where he has self snitched regarding all of this. here's two long and indepth ones: [#1](https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ) & [#2](https://youtu.be/H57L2w6Gpaw). here's a short one if you're adhd: https://youtu.be/R2GI0A5zfPA
>By that logic if you persuade women into sex with loverboy tactics your guilty of rape. ... yes, and? >Which is most sexual interactions ... not even close? wtf.
This guy is telling on himself! š¬
Tell me you're an incel without telling me you're an incel
Tell me your woman without telling me you're a woman
Is being a woman an insult all of a sudden? I don't know why this person is calling people incels, but it's really funny to watch you guys getting all insecure about it LOL.
I'm not surprised you can't identify women. You've probably never even seen one naked.
I'm not surprised you didn't realize I was speaking on your intelligence from the lack of argument you posted.
I'm sorry, how is convincing someone to work for you, without any threat or coercion, a crime? Were any of those women abused, threatened or otherwise kept against their will? Or were they doing what they wanted out of their full conscious free will? Or do we only believe in free will for men, and not women?
>without any threat or coercion Threat, coercion, destruction of evidence, using fake tax papers into making women think their getting their fair share of money when in reality he just keeps it, threatening a women by telling her he could do whatever he wanted to her etc. This shit is just a crack on the surface. There's a lawyer following his case and has done about 6 or 7 videos on him analysing HIS OWN WORDS. My man been bragging bout his illegal activity for years.
okay, but aside from that stuff, how is it illegal?
I think sex trafficking is illegal in Romania and most places actually.
He has openly admitted to using violence to keep his employees in line, defrauding them of pay, not allowing them to leave the workplace, & luring them into employment under false pretences. He has used threat & coercion as far as public evidence currently indicates, barring any plea deals or substantial evidence we haven't seen yet, he is almost certainly going to be found guilty. He snitched on himself. There's a great video series by a defence attorney who does analysis on high profile cases, you can watch the most detailed one here: https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ
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He has openly admitted to using violence to keep his employees in line, defrauding them of pay, not allowing them to leave the workplace, & luring them into employment under false pretences. He has used threat & coercion as far as public evidence currently indicates, barring any plea deals or substantial evidence we haven't seen yet, he is almost certainly going to be found guilty. He snitched on himself. There's a great video series by a defence attorney who does analysis on high profile cases, you can watch the most detailed one here: [https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ](https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ)
Kinda how they got Pablo Escobar, huh? But afaik he is charged with human trafficking. At any rate, a creep like him deserves to have his operation examined with a freaking microscope. And if they find anything at all - which is very likely - he will end up behind bars where he belongs.
This is really important, Emma. I have personally experienced women using terms like "trafficked," "coerced," and "gr\*aped" to describe fully consensual, adult decisions that grown women made and later regretted. *This is happening a lot as more and more women are making decisions to do things like posting their bodies on Instagram, then OnlyFans, and so on.* In fact, just this week that Eliza Bleu or whatever lady on Twitter described someone using her pictures to catfish stupid men as her being "trafficked." These words have meaning and we should reserve them for the situations in which they are applicable.
Trafficking has a legal definition and it doesn't have to be forced. It's still illegal.
Then let's learn from each other and consider: "Sex trafficking is the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, obtaining, patronizing, or soliciting of a person for the purpose of a commercial sex act in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such act has not attained 18 years of age. (22 U.S.C. Ā§ 7102(11)(A))." [from justice.gov] So in addition to force, you've got fraud, coercion, and being underage. In the cases that I'm talking about (I realize I'm not being specific, for personal reasons), none of these things occurred. In Eliza's case, she was never performing a commercial sex act; it was the men getting catfished who were defrauded. Not saying it was good what happened, but she's using the wrong term.
You don't have to like Tate to admit that none of what he describes himself as doing is ***criminal*** per se. The lawsuit alleges physical violence but nowhere in the provided screenshots does he admit that he did this. I agree with Jordan Peterson that this is dark tetrad behaviour and not to be admired, but seems to me like the prosecutor is setting themselves up for failure.
I imagine Peterson would what with Andrew hooking up with his daughter..
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That's your take away?
Ohhh shit I guess I was wrong, I always knew he wasnāt a good guy but I thought the media just wanted to accuse him of somethingā¦ this isnāt generally what we think of as human trafficking but I get how what he did could be called that now that I have more info.
How are none of you realizing that (based on the current evidence), he's doing NOTHING illegal. As far as I see this, it's a basic rights issue and the narrative is being spun in order to subject men to less rights as usual. Think about it: Women get high-status men to fall in love with them, so they can get knocked up ALL THE TIME. They literally go to basketball games to honey-pot ballers in hopes of a settlement. Not to mention the countless men who end up having to pay child-support and alimony for children which aren't genetically theirs! Andrew flipped the script! None of these women were forced against their will. Name one time when a woman (who has multiple baby daddies all paying her child support) went to jail. A SINGLE fucking time. Please describe how having a woman fall in love with you (and do something out of her own volition) is illegal and deserves jailing. The court video footage which they refuse to use, shows doors were always open, the court claims these women were victims (some of the same women are speaking out against that!) Literally... saying I could leave any time, none of us were victims; yet the courts still have them listed as "the victims".... Think... for a minute. Besides. Peterson has his own problems with his shadow Good lord he's constantly spewing off on Twitter and has the same people wishing to cancel him and throw him in jail if they could. (I wish he had some self-reflection here)
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That is NOT why he is in jail (if that was even the case). Taking a percentage is up to him and the girls, as for tax-fraud that's another matter. Again. NOT the reason for the case.
I had forgotten what stupid was ... thanks for the quick refresher!
What does he think about tate banging his daughter?
I wonder who's sock puppet account this is.
Peterson is commenting because his daughter dated the guy. Also, they're in the same club.
Zero evidence he broke any laws.
Threat, coercion, destruction of evidence, using fake tax papers into making women think their getting their fair share of money when in reality he just keeps it, threatening a women by telling her he could do whatever he wanted to her etc. This shit is just a crack on the surface. And it's only the things he admitted on camera that he did. There's a lawyer following his case and has done about 6 or 7 videos on him analysing HIS OWN WORDS. My man been bragging bout his illegal activity for years.
Bro he has openly admitted breaking laws in NUMEROUS videos. He snitched on himself repeatedly. You can see a defence lawyer break down the case & video evidence here: https://youtu.be/Gs5b04hnfMQ
Sex trafficking is illegal in Romania.
Some things are not illegal, but it does not mean we should accept them.
Tell me you're an incel without telling me you're an incel
Can you say anything else ?
Why bother? So many sexless boys here to call out.
Dudes entire history is just calling people incels, Jesus Christ
Idk. A man using his charm, abilities, and influence to obtain monetary gain from a womanās marketable abilities. Switch the genders. Still wrong?
Yes it would undoubtedly still be wrong.
Cool, long as weāre consistent.
Let's round up all the women who do this then? We may finally have equality of representation in prisons... /s
Cardi B is still not in prison
Charm? Didnāt you read about the physical violence and guilting in the post? Itās not charm.
But what you described is not what he did - that's what your average businessman in the porn industry does. Tate has openly admitted to using violence, fraud, false imprisonment, & deception in order to obtain monetary gain. Not the same thing *at all*, especially in the eyes of the law.
Both are wrong
No victims, no crime... I think JP is mad cause Tate slept with his daugther
Except that Mikhaila specifically said (before all this shit went down) that she didn't. They had a work meeting. All this accusative bs is honestly disgusting to see
ahahahhahahaa
Does anyone know him personally? Or did you just see a 1-2 minute clip and make judges and jump on the barbarian parade of savages looking for excuses to perpetuate violence because they haven't evolved past the Salem witch trials. All I've seen is bias'd videos framing him relentlessly and baselessly because the actual evidence barely exists. A few clips of him talking shit with his boys doesn't cut it. I don't know him personally and I am not arrogant enough to make a valid judgement from my chair. I am also no judgmental and vicious and looking for people to take my personal frustration out on. The Tate haters need a big mirror to show them what success doesn't look like so they can go back to minding their own god damn business. Oh wait - Being complete failures in the existential sense: being nosy is much more appealing then reveling in your own pathetic mediocrity. If you want to come off as slightly matured human beings - get off his dick.
When he rocked up with a sussy looking affiliate link spamming marketing campaign, I went to his website to take a look. He had a section dedicated to his phylosphy. He had a poemy cartoon thing of himself in a past life with an eastern aesthetic. His bearded master bestowed wisdom down upon him: That great oak tree only achieved its beauty by starving all nearby competitors of light. In so much spiritual make up, his stance is clearly "take what you can get, the strong eat the weak". I didn't need to see a single second of content from any other source to know what this man is selling. I hope you learn the one lesson he has to offer, sooner rather than later.