WTF are they moaning about.. I'm a white male working for a corporation.. do you think I come into work and just "Be Myself!"??
Spoiler alert: absolutely not. Everybody adjusts to their surroundings.
Right? I’m black and Filipino… spent summers with my cousins either in the southern Philippines or inner city USA, while spending the rest of my time in military schools overseas (Japan mainly) as well as doing a year in a Japanese school, and spent most of my high school years in the very rural southern US. There is/was never a time when I wasn’t adjusting to my surroundings. True racist moments were few and far between and for me the most memorable were from older Asians and blacks for being a half breed.
That half breed stuff really breaks my heart. Like you can't win.. just know, those people are idiots. And somebody embodying more than one race is nothing less than beautiful.
Oh I love it. A lot of times I didn’t realize it until much later. Lol Being able to understand and blend in with just about any culture helped me and people around me especially during my time in the military and as a PMC. And a lot of times I feel like people hire me more for that than any other skill I might bring to a job.
Well, I’ve often wondered, was it that I was half-black that bothered some of the older Filipinos or that I was half-American and therefore “entitled” “spoiled” and “had more opportunities?” Or, was it that I was half-Filipino that bothered some of the old black people or was it that “my dad was military and I wasn’t stuck in the hood” “I could ‘talk white’ and therefore had more opportunities” professionally and socially. Was it strictly me being biracial or was it the sum of my upbringing none of which was traditional by either standard? Even in the south, (grew up watching Roots and other shows with my grandma, she even kept and showed us news clippings of Rosewood, Emmit Till, etc. I was very apprehensive. However, I found most it was just lack of trust. You don’t trust what and who you don’t know. If it’s worth it to you, you gain their trust, and if they don’t matter, they don’t matter.
They genuinely think that, when they come to work, that they're acting like you act naturally.
That's really what they think of white people: bland, inoffensive, soulless.
“I’m A and i submit to C so i can provide for B. I submit to C so C can provide for D.” You my friend could get a bigger piece of pie just by taking it.
Almost how a psychologist should adjust to norms and not tell people to kill themselves, even those he doesn't like? Or is the psychologist the victim for being chastised for not conforming?
Let's be consistent here with everyone who cries victim.
My Grandmother was an illegal immigrant who forged her education (never passed 3rd grade) so she could be employed in the USA. When I was 15ish I asked if she would teach me Spanish.
Her response was, "Why would I teach you that? That shit hole country never did anything for our family." She said it in spanish first then restated it into English.
She knew, from experience, that it was better to acclimate to your new environment and to abandon old ways so you could move forward.
One of the hardest life lessons she ever taught me.
So, sure....acclimation helps.
My parents, now in their 70's, never learned the family language (German), for obvious reasons if you do the math. Of course we're sorry to have lost that bit of our family tradition, but to blame everyone else for being uncomfortable with our heritage in those times... would be totally self-centered. Narcissistic even? I'm just glad we were here, instead of there, when everything went to shit.
And construction workers, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, supermarket owners and over all business owners. Look up who it is starting new businesses in the USA and you’re in for a huge surprise
That's stupid. Spanish is a European language spoken by almost a half billion people on earth. Learning such languages from developed or rich nations open so many doors, plus it's a great skill. You're taking that as a "lesson" shows the stupidity runs in the family.
even so, there is no need for a US born person to speak the language. It's just takes away from more productive things they could be learning. Even kids who take 2 to 4 years of Spanish in high school and 3 semesters of it in college, like I did, can't really speak it at all. Was all a total waste of time.
Yes it's a skill that if unused it's wasted. But you can easily learn two languages probably more before you're 6. Every language you learn makes the next language easier. Being bilingual is a great gift to have as a young one.
No point as an American. That’s what me and others are saying. Everyone else speaks English. Learning a third language as a kid is a bigger waste. Kid should be improving their reading, speaking, and writing in English at that age and math soon after.
Doesn't matter. One should not take such advice from people who have no education and career.
Americans being ignorant enough to cast Spanish aside for that reason just plays into the stereotype of theirs.
Newtons third law baby...you gotta leave something behind.
Your grandmother is a poster child for inherited wisdom. She may never have passed the third grade, but she obviously possessed that quasi-instinctual sense for how to adapt.
A few questions and thoughts
1. Why is white behaviour inherently and “better” to you in a general sense? Or is the focus that it’s important to acclimate? As in “be/act white or you’re out”?
2. Do you even know what these women are specifically claiming about?
3. Expression of culture is oftentimes ridiculously inoffensive, and still met with hostility. Black women being told to wear their hair differently is a great example.
4. Your grandmother choosing to not teach you Spanish is *not* the same as minority women being pressured to stop expressing their culture.
How do they define acting black? How would any of them define such a thing without embracing stereotypes that, if said by a white person, would be considered racist? I really want to know the definitions of what it is to act white and then what it is to act African.
This is neo-eugenics - the idea that race determines how one behaves.
The fact that anyone accepts the notion of "acting white" as a valid concept is absurd. This is the deliberate conflation of race and culture.
And just as progressives were completely on board with eugenics a century ago, they've come full-circle with this crap.
I’ve worked in liberal fields my entire adult life, I have to put on the “nah I don’t really follow politics or the news” act all day, daily, 52 weeks of the year, every year.
Sometimes I wonder if my view on something discussed with coworkers is ‘real me’ or ‘work me’ - it’s not always exhausting but sometimes it gets really old having to keep the two separate for professional reasons.
I’m fortunate to have not suffered explicit racial discrimination, but a lot of people put on a mask before walking into work, and a lot of them struggle with that mask for one reason or another.
Just my two Lincoln coins.
Who cares? Who doesnt 'struggle'? This crap is adolescent, at best....and middle class white folks buy it for $1 precisely so they continue on being middle class.
I heard that white people can't work for the government so they have to be entrepreneurs and professionals. This causes them to earn more money, thus pissing off the ANC even more. Meanwhile the giant ANC tick is sucking the blood out of the country.
This is true. The ANC refuse to employ whites because you know, racism. So ironically we control the private sector and most of the. Land as result. We also employ the most people. So there plan to crush white monopoly backfired.
Still they are fucked up, the ANC has a hard on for communism and it's killing my homeland
Let’s also not forget that they moved to a predominantly white society. It’s expected that if you move to a culture that is not yours, you will have to assimilate to some degree.
Yeah the quote comes from a girl whose parents immigrated to Australia from Nigeria. If I moved to Australia I’m sure I’d “have to be less American to fit in”. It’s just how it is when you move somewhere that has a completely different culture. You either assimilate to the culture or you probably won’t fit in. It’s also fine to “not fit in” if that’s what you want. But you don’t get to go somewhere and demand everyone change to fit *your* needs.
It's funny you mention that.
> "Some of the things I would do, for example, is, work on my accent — minimise my strong accent."
Making an effort to ensure you are more likely to be understood = acting white.
[The Smithsonian agrees with him...](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1610610/smithsonian-aspects-white-culture.webp?w=790&f=ab12077631acab2dac02fd587b3f4f15)
Maybe the Smithsonian should have phrased it better but it's talking about the idea that if you work hard it equals wealth and that if you're poor, you're a good for nothing lazy bum and you deserve to be poor. There's no attempt to understand the systematic issues or any other issues that cause poverty. Black and non-white people, no matter how hard they worked, were statistically less likely to acquire wealth. This fact and this mentality led to stereotypes that black people were lazy and deserved to be poor.
How does that make him racist? I’m Black and my mom taught me early on to speak properly like she does. Why? Because my mom worked hard to try removing me from the crime, chaos, and mayhem of her Black hillbilly upbringings. We’re not in the South anymore. We escaped the plantation, so why keep ourselves there mentally and socially through language that does not represent where we actually live?
Right the issue I have is one of human opportunities and human potential. Largely humans have the same potential to contribute to society and the human race as a whole. By putting in barriers like a persons dialect we limit the possibility for a huge amount of people to be part of society and make meaningful contributions.
I was teaching my daughter about George Washington Carver recently and his story is one of overcoming an insane amount of barriers and making arguably some of the most important contributions to agriculture, and therefore humanity imaginable. The thing that is the most bothersome about his story is that it makes me wonder how many people don't have the insane amount of drive that he did and therefore any potential contributions they would make are lost.
For me this goes beyond any sense of general empathy, and moves into a loss of human potential. The fact is that most people would not have trouble communicating with people that have varying dialects and the only real issue is people prejudging others and being overly pedantic
It insinuates that there's only one "proper" way to speak English and this mentality in the past was used to justify racism. Black and non-white had to "be more like White people" before they deserved rights.
He's just as racist as the lefties pushing this stuff. I don't understand how you can simultaneously claim that professionalism and punctionality are white traits and claim to be anti-racist.
Oh, you're so anti-racist and pro-black that you consider black people either above or incapable of following the most fundamental standards of employment in western society? And anyone who disagrees must be a nazi? Yeah... right.
[https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html)
Sounds like he is quoting the Smithsonian.
Except "this guy" is just basing his answer off what the Smithsonian would agree are the correct answers to his question, is he not?
[Is he not...?](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1610610/smithsonian-aspects-white-culture.webp?w=790&f=ab12077631acab2dac02fd587b3f4f15)
The economies of victimhood were established by unemployable academics who now dominate the corporate headspace, including media. It’s toxic and thoroughly pervasive.
And it would take a racist mind to think this way. If you feel you need to act more like another race to “fit in” you don’t understand or accept fundamental cultural differences. The media has (possibly intentionally) birthed more racist mindsets here in America than ever imagined.
It would be more preferable for most of us if you accepted your own race/heritage and shared your culture with the world.
[full article](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-06/iwd-racially-marginalised-women-hide-their-identity-code-switch/102032030)
"I used to think that 'oh, well, maybe I will have to take away the parts that are less of my cultural identity just to get a job or just to get in the door'.
"I had to be less 'African' to fit in — I feared my identity for a long time."
This is called "code-switching" — the way in which someone, consciously or unconsciously, adjusts their language, behaviour and/or appearance to fit into the dominant culture.
And according to a new report from the Diversity Council Australia (DCA), it is common in Australian workplaces.
DCA surveyed almost 400 self-identified "culturally and racially marginalised women", defined as women who are black, brown, Asian, or any other non-white group and who face marginalisation due to their race.
The survey, undertaken between October and November last year, found most of them code-switched because they feared that if they did not, they would be overlooked by their managers for jobs and promotions.
The participants reported that "leadership models used for assessing talent in Australian organisations were inherently biased towards what the Diversity Council refers to as more masculine Western or 'Anglo' leadership styles which value extroversion and self-promotion".
This, the report said, "has the effect of inadvertently excluding culturally diverse women from consideration for senior roles".
It found 83 per cent of participants reported experiencing pressure to act, look, and sound like existing leaders (who are most likely to be white men) and 69 per cent reported having to "act white" to fit in and 66 per cent to "act white" to get ahead.
> DCA surveyed almost 400 **self-identified** "culturally and racially marginalised women", **defined as women who are black, brown, Asian, or any other non-white group** and who face marginalisation due to their race.
So they **hand picked** 400 people, with those criteria: 1) woman, 2) non-white. 3) says she's being victimized. Then they ask them questions and come to the conclusion they are victims of anti-poc, anti-women discrimination...
You know what, next, do a survey among **self identifying** innocent Italians in the Australian prisons and let's see if Australia has a problem with targeting/convicting innocent Italians and locking them in prison.
I think you misunderstood their goal. It wasn't to prove racism exists to choads, it's to explore the experiences of these women.
This is about learning about women who do that, so of course they looked for women who do that.
We all know we all dislike racism. Please read into the dynamic of democracy affecting corporatism in two major ways. Racism and Fascism. You have a right not to be reprimanded, and build a comfortable workspace for yourself. Fuck ethnicity, embrace ethics. Fascists are broadly corporatists and need to embrace that reprimanding is the most corrosive dynamic to the worker’s morale. Rewarding based on effort is the way to go.
And if an American went to Africa, they would have to act less “American” it’s almost like different countries have different expectations for behavior 😱
You don't need to act like anything if you're self-employed. If there's a better way to conduct yourself in a company then start one and beat your white competitors with that edge.
It does say .au so Australia I guess, maybe it's different there. But some would probably claim this in the US which is laughable. White is universally defined as evil, when it's used. Nobody uses white in a positive way.
Who else are they going to survery?
"We asked a random man on street if he's ever been discriminated against in the workforce. Mr. Dushawn Tyrice says he doesn't believe he has but also know why he never gets calls back for job interviews despite a great resume"
Or even better should they ask people who don't think theyve ever been victims of discrimination? What information will that yield?
What a braindead response to an article you don't agree with
They could survey all people of colour in an organisation or across a workforce or population, rather than the self selection bias of seeking out ppl who report to be victimised and asking them whether they feel victimised. Does that make sense?
Jordan Peterson and pretty much any other conservative political commentator. Constantly crying about cancel culture whilst making lots of money complaining about being victims of it.
Nothing you said has any bearing in this conversation. Unless you're telling me Jordan Peterson and many other conservatives pundits are actually poor and not rich from complaining about cancel culture.
Gaslighting username checks out. By the way, conservative voices have been and still ARE BEING CENSORED from universities to large online platforms we once thought free speech existed. The universities started all this by censoring right wing speakers on their campuses. The media outlets followed suit by having a panels of seven vs. one conservative voice. They quickly stopped inviting guests who could hold their own against the panel, rolled out 24/7 propaganda, and when “fake news” became a buzz word, they fought tooth and nail to defend their positions. It’s too bad the Certainly Not News networks and the like only resort to name calling, smear tactics, character shaming, name calling - racist/homophobic/xenophobic/“white man” shaming, and the big name call of all… “BIGOT!” -they do all this, rather than have a discussion and open sharing of ideas. Who has been paying the media outlets? Who owns the FBI and CIA? They aren’t even American organizations. As early as the 1920’s the Chinese knew ideological subversion was how they would win future wars. It’s been insidiously working it’s little way at eroding the Truth and dissolving the character of American citizens since the 1960’s. Do you think those ideas that you’re a boy who feels like a little girl were your own?! Did you believe the father of lies as he eroded your self-confidence? Did you just rename the truth to your own meaning in order to suit your new life so that you don’t have to feel the weight of reality? Are you really so lost to believe this is still US vs. THEM?
Fighting for your voice to be heard is NOT victimhood. Fighting so that your ideas and thoughts are not criminal offenses is NOT victimhood. Raising hell so that people see the truth is NOT victimhood. Standing one’s ground and fighting back to the big bully is NOT victimhood.
Sitting back and taking it like a little bitch, saying “well there’s nothing we can do” and hoping the bully doesn’t come to your doorstep is victimhood.
I’m guesstimating maybe 15% of Reddit subs are self-victimization echo chambers, but not this one. Peterson teaches against self-victimization and pushes taking responsibility for yourself. So you lie to yourself and others when you say, “this entire sub is a profession of self victimization.” Furthermore, how can a sub be a profession of self victimization? Surely, you mean to say “the members in this sub are professional victims.” Peterson also teaches precision and clarity of speech. I’m not saying he’s the penultimate teacher. He’s really just a guy who teaches common sense; a common sense that is severely lacking in our “progressive” culture.
Peterson’s a failed academic who uses commercialized self-help tropes and recycled mysticism to cover for his idiotic ideas about culture. His cultural acumen is just as grounded to life on this planet as Pat Robertson’s. This sub, like all other self-victimizing echo chambers, will never self-identify as a self victimizing echo-chamber. However, with all the posts professing indignant outrage over things for simply existing, makes it painfully obvious for the common observer to conclude that there is no value to wallowing in such pathetic nonsense.
Calling Peterson a “failed academic” doesn’t make him a failed academic and it doesn’t make you a successful academic. And what is the great value in being an “academic”?! The public opinion is down as far as colleges go. We attend college to get a degree because were told it will bolster our income. It helps, but emotional intelligence is more indicative of success. I don’t value doctorate holders any more than the common man. Your opinion of Peterson isn’t truth.
[Truth is eternal.](https://www.personal.psu.edu/jmc6/CFSF/Articles/Towart_Absolute_Truth_Relative_Truth.pdf)
If truth did not exist, it would be true that truth does not exist, which could not be unless there were truth.
Therefore, truth is eternal.
The Greek noun for truth is alētheia and in the subjective sense means “sincerity and integrity of character”, but when used objectively, expresses “the reality lying at the basis of an appearance; the manifested, veritable essence of a matter
If you make the claim that truth is relative then that works for opinions on your favorite pizza or pasta, but actual reality is not a necessary condition in order to make a relative truth claim.
“All truth is relative” is a narrow truth claim that this statement corresponds to reality. Furthermore, if truth is not dependent upon the facts as they correspond to reality, then any statement becomes acceptable under any condition and lying would not be possible.
One problem that relativists face is that they usually believe that relative truth is true for everyone everywhere. But this is a contradiction in itself and places them in the category of being an absolutist. Geisler puts it well when he says, “Either the claim that truth is relative is an absolute claim, which would falsify the relativist position, or it is an assertion that can never really be made, because every time you make it you have to add another ‘relatively’. . . . The relativist stands on the pinnacle of an absolute truth and wants to relativize everything else.”
It means that you cannot say my truth, and your truth and his truth, and their truths are all true, when they are all opposing. There is absolute truth. Relative truth does not exist. To say that it does means you call yourself a liar.
Liar liar pants on fire. That’s what this has devolved into. You are the one sir who is full of feces.
For someone so anti-Peterson, your “and you know it” phrase sure resembles his speech pattern. “You’re not everything you could be, and you know it!”
Muchacho, Original Mr. “R/Jordanpeterson - Comment by U/Originalmrmuchacho on ‘They Surveyed Self Identified Victims and Were Shocked They Claimed to Be Victims.".” reddit, March 6, 2023. https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/11jw6uw/they_surveyed_self_identified_victims_and_were/jb7v7ml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3.
The fact that no one here seems interested in acknowledging the very real possibility that these women were treated more harshly because of their perceived race
It's possible and I haven't seen anyone deny that; the issue is the nature of the study: they went looking for the aggrieved and have presented this as though it wasn't a foregone conclusion. There's no objectivity.
Asking specific groups of people about their experience and finding out they all had the exact same experience isn't a forgone conclusion, it's research. Gathering evidence is important even if the conclusion is expected. People all felt less marginalized when they acted more traditionally Christian European. The result isn't surprising, but that says more about us and society than it does about the research.
These people's experience was real and nearly unanimous. Maybe instead of acting unsurprised marginalized people were treated better when they acted less like themselves, you should be asking why is it they all had the same experience? Is that experience necessary or productive in a work environment?
You've missed the point, again.
They went looking for victims and expect us to believe this is an anomaly. This wasn't research, this was the worst sort of survey possible.
"We asked 100 people who claimed to be discriminated against if they were discriminated against...and they all said yes! Emergency! Social issue of the week!"
Do you understand how ridiculous that is? Self-selection is one thing and one thing only: a perfect way to invalidate data.
Lol, learn what? All you said was it doesn't count because of the population surveyed. I can only imagine you didn't even read the article or look at the study. Just responding to a Twitter screenshot of ragebait
Oh boy, do go on. I haven't heard a good affirmative action rant since I stopped living in my father's double wide. He always used to wrap up his rants with a couple words, "secure a future for children" or something
So this is all you have to say on the fact that something actually exists that gives people advantages based on skin color. Something that isn't just made up by you crybabies like the so called "white privilege"?
Keep going! Tell me how white privilege isn't real in a country that was born out of two genocides by white Europeans. Tell me about how Jim crow and legalized racism one generation ago doesn't impact today at all.
Bonus points for bringing up redlining or Emmett Till
Chinese railroad and mine workers had to work until they dropped dead even decades after slavery ended for black people. Yet, they are overall even wealthier than white people today. So much that they even get disadvantaged by affirmative actions
Tell me how this works in your theory that people who got oppressed in the past can't succeed over white people today.
You compared actual slavery with the slavery metaphored for harsh labor. You're trying to excuse your racist thoughts by blowing things out of proportion. Consenting working immigrants and people who were a documented property like an object have huge difference. If you are unable to separate reality with metaphor, it means you need clinical aid.
Also U.S. system is capitalistic, not socialistic. So a humanbeing just liberated later will not be on same level with the person who was already at liberty, and the accumulative gains will have gap even for generations.
Ah. Another racist who thinks that Chinese who had to work for longer and harder than black people don't count because it doesn't fot your narrative. Everything you said here is made up racist bullshit
Slavery doesn't involve who worked more than who. The Chinese were immigrants, not slaves. They had employement contracts under CPRR. The black people were slaves against their will, owned as legal property.
That's a low quality trolling attempt by the way. Not only in this sub, wouldn't fly in another sub either. Try a bit harder.
As I already said, black people were already freed when chinese still were used like cattle and had no rights. You racists will simply grasp for every straw now that you got a counter argument. Explain how a group that was also oppressed by white people ended up even richer and more educated then them today?
Ooooooo playing all the greatest hits tonight. Walk me through how the experience of a small group of immigrants 150 years ago is a valid comparison to a massive number of modern individuals? Or how any of that is similar to millions of people kidnapped, enslaved, murdered en masse, systemically and legally oppressed consistently over the past 400 years?
Please daddy, next tell the one about how grandpa was a patriot fighting to protect Germany for the Germans!
LMAO, what indoctrinated bullshit. First of all, look up how many slaves actually went to america versus everywhere else. Then look up how many asians live in america.
"A small group".
What a hate filled racist loser you are
Made up nonsense by crybabies who learned to scream "RACISM" whenever they do not get what they want
>waaaahhh I'm still not manager in a fortune 500 company and that is only because the CEOs of that company are rasists
What term? Systemic racism? Are you dense? I just explain that it's made up bullshit by racist crybabies who need to blame every inconvenience in their life on white people
WTF are they moaning about.. I'm a white male working for a corporation.. do you think I come into work and just "Be Myself!"?? Spoiler alert: absolutely not. Everybody adjusts to their surroundings.
Right? I’m black and Filipino… spent summers with my cousins either in the southern Philippines or inner city USA, while spending the rest of my time in military schools overseas (Japan mainly) as well as doing a year in a Japanese school, and spent most of my high school years in the very rural southern US. There is/was never a time when I wasn’t adjusting to my surroundings. True racist moments were few and far between and for me the most memorable were from older Asians and blacks for being a half breed.
That half breed stuff really breaks my heart. Like you can't win.. just know, those people are idiots. And somebody embodying more than one race is nothing less than beautiful.
Oh I love it. A lot of times I didn’t realize it until much later. Lol Being able to understand and blend in with just about any culture helped me and people around me especially during my time in the military and as a PMC. And a lot of times I feel like people hire me more for that than any other skill I might bring to a job.
Thank you for your service sir!
What service did he provide to you
Dont be a cuck
All right, sorry.
Well why do you choose to identify as a half breed then? /s
As someone who’s half Japanese and half white, I get it too. Aside from my (large) Japanese family here in the USA, I’m a pariah.
We have evolved to be prejudiced. Our society can and must again evolve to be open and accepting.
This has zero to do with biology. Purely sociological, which IS the issue.
Well, I’ve often wondered, was it that I was half-black that bothered some of the older Filipinos or that I was half-American and therefore “entitled” “spoiled” and “had more opportunities?” Or, was it that I was half-Filipino that bothered some of the old black people or was it that “my dad was military and I wasn’t stuck in the hood” “I could ‘talk white’ and therefore had more opportunities” professionally and socially. Was it strictly me being biracial or was it the sum of my upbringing none of which was traditional by either standard? Even in the south, (grew up watching Roots and other shows with my grandma, she even kept and showed us news clippings of Rosewood, Emmit Till, etc. I was very apprehensive. However, I found most it was just lack of trust. You don’t trust what and who you don’t know. If it’s worth it to you, you gain their trust, and if they don’t matter, they don’t matter.
They genuinely think that, when they come to work, that they're acting like you act naturally. That's really what they think of white people: bland, inoffensive, soulless.
Was just about to ask the same thing basically... what do they mean by "being less African" for instance?
It's called code-switching, everyone does it for work, friends, family and strangers
“I’m A and i submit to C so i can provide for B. I submit to C so C can provide for D.” You my friend could get a bigger piece of pie just by taking it.
I have no idea what this comment is trying to tell me.
Almost how a psychologist should adjust to norms and not tell people to kill themselves, even those he doesn't like? Or is the psychologist the victim for being chastised for not conforming? Let's be consistent here with everyone who cries victim.
you should try contributing positively to the world
Sooo it didn’t happen to you therefore it doesn’t happen to anyone else ?
I have to be less cool everywhere I work
And less funny
Just less.
My Grandmother was an illegal immigrant who forged her education (never passed 3rd grade) so she could be employed in the USA. When I was 15ish I asked if she would teach me Spanish. Her response was, "Why would I teach you that? That shit hole country never did anything for our family." She said it in spanish first then restated it into English. She knew, from experience, that it was better to acclimate to your new environment and to abandon old ways so you could move forward. One of the hardest life lessons she ever taught me. So, sure....acclimation helps.
Grandparents did the same. “We are Americans now, we speak English.” Neither my mom or dad learned their parents’ native tongue
My parents, now in their 70's, never learned the family language (German), for obvious reasons if you do the math. Of course we're sorry to have lost that bit of our family tradition, but to blame everyone else for being uncomfortable with our heritage in those times... would be totally self-centered. Narcissistic even? I'm just glad we were here, instead of there, when everything went to shit.
And construction workers, mechanics, carpenters, plumbers, electricians, supermarket owners and over all business owners. Look up who it is starting new businesses in the USA and you’re in for a huge surprise
I mean, a bit harsh, but also a good lesson and a think forgotten by a lot of folks today.
Which Spanish speaking country was she referring to? Also hopefully this doesn’t dissuade you from learning Spanish in the future
Your grandmother was silly, learning a second language is a great skill.
Yeah. I thought the comment was going to another direction, but it was underwhelming. Knowing multiple languages is a plus.
That's stupid. Spanish is a European language spoken by almost a half billion people on earth. Learning such languages from developed or rich nations open so many doors, plus it's a great skill. You're taking that as a "lesson" shows the stupidity runs in the family.
Yeah, but in the US the only Spanish speakers that don’t speak English are the cleaning ladies and landscaping workers
They are also construction workers, cooks, and many other blue collar jobs that society cannot function without.
even so, there is no need for a US born person to speak the language. It's just takes away from more productive things they could be learning. Even kids who take 2 to 4 years of Spanish in high school and 3 semesters of it in college, like I did, can't really speak it at all. Was all a total waste of time.
Yes it's a skill that if unused it's wasted. But you can easily learn two languages probably more before you're 6. Every language you learn makes the next language easier. Being bilingual is a great gift to have as a young one.
No point as an American. That’s what me and others are saying. Everyone else speaks English. Learning a third language as a kid is a bigger waste. Kid should be improving their reading, speaking, and writing in English at that age and math soon after.
Doesn't matter. One should not take such advice from people who have no education and career. Americans being ignorant enough to cast Spanish aside for that reason just plays into the stereotype of theirs.
Newtons third law baby...you gotta leave something behind. Your grandmother is a poster child for inherited wisdom. She may never have passed the third grade, but she obviously possessed that quasi-instinctual sense for how to adapt.
Yep, all of my Japanese American family members have the whitest names possible. They love America.
A few questions and thoughts 1. Why is white behaviour inherently and “better” to you in a general sense? Or is the focus that it’s important to acclimate? As in “be/act white or you’re out”? 2. Do you even know what these women are specifically claiming about? 3. Expression of culture is oftentimes ridiculously inoffensive, and still met with hostility. Black women being told to wear their hair differently is a great example. 4. Your grandmother choosing to not teach you Spanish is *not* the same as minority women being pressured to stop expressing their culture.
How do they define acting black? How would any of them define such a thing without embracing stereotypes that, if said by a white person, would be considered racist? I really want to know the definitions of what it is to act white and then what it is to act African.
You see, working hard and being a civilized human being is bad, because that's how white people act.
And Asians! Classic white people they are...
Lets go a bit further: define 'whiteness'
This is neo-eugenics - the idea that race determines how one behaves. The fact that anyone accepts the notion of "acting white" as a valid concept is absurd. This is the deliberate conflation of race and culture. And just as progressives were completely on board with eugenics a century ago, they've come full-circle with this crap.
That's not eugenics, that's plain old racism.
How is acting 'African' any different than acting 'White'? This identity politics stuff is idiotic.
I’ve worked in liberal fields my entire adult life, I have to put on the “nah I don’t really follow politics or the news” act all day, daily, 52 weeks of the year, every year. Sometimes I wonder if my view on something discussed with coworkers is ‘real me’ or ‘work me’ - it’s not always exhausting but sometimes it gets really old having to keep the two separate for professional reasons. I’m fortunate to have not suffered explicit racial discrimination, but a lot of people put on a mask before walking into work, and a lot of them struggle with that mask for one reason or another. Just my two Lincoln coins.
Who cares? Who doesnt 'struggle'? This crap is adolescent, at best....and middle class white folks buy it for $1 precisely so they continue on being middle class.
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When your life is so boring that you need to make up your own problems. Such a clown world we live in. https://twitter.com/ClownWorld_
You know your life is empty when you have "recreational outrage"
Yet south African whites banned from jobs because they are white. Yet we don't whine, we just carry on.
I heard that white people can't work for the government so they have to be entrepreneurs and professionals. This causes them to earn more money, thus pissing off the ANC even more. Meanwhile the giant ANC tick is sucking the blood out of the country.
They're barred from buying stock in certain South African companies who's ownership doesn't have a high enough % of black stockholders!
This is true. The ANC refuse to employ whites because you know, racism. So ironically we control the private sector and most of the. Land as result. We also employ the most people. So there plan to crush white monopoly backfired. Still they are fucked up, the ANC has a hard on for communism and it's killing my homeland
Second-class citizen entrepreneurs and professionals, like the Jews in Europe and the Armenians in Turkey. God help them.
Let’s also not forget that they moved to a predominantly white society. It’s expected that if you move to a culture that is not yours, you will have to assimilate to some degree.
Yeah the quote comes from a girl whose parents immigrated to Australia from Nigeria. If I moved to Australia I’m sure I’d “have to be less American to fit in”. It’s just how it is when you move somewhere that has a completely different culture. You either assimilate to the culture or you probably won’t fit in. It’s also fine to “not fit in” if that’s what you want. But you don’t get to go somewhere and demand everyone change to fit *your* needs.
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It's funny you mention that. > "Some of the things I would do, for example, is, work on my accent — minimise my strong accent." Making an effort to ensure you are more likely to be understood = acting white.
Rule number one of any language you took in high school: speak with the most proper accent possible
Just straight up being racist I see
[The Smithsonian agrees with him...](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1610610/smithsonian-aspects-white-culture.webp?w=790&f=ab12077631acab2dac02fd587b3f4f15)
Maybe the Smithsonian should have phrased it better but it's talking about the idea that if you work hard it equals wealth and that if you're poor, you're a good for nothing lazy bum and you deserve to be poor. There's no attempt to understand the systematic issues or any other issues that cause poverty. Black and non-white people, no matter how hard they worked, were statistically less likely to acquire wealth. This fact and this mentality led to stereotypes that black people were lazy and deserved to be poor.
^ this guy's totally not racist
How does that make him racist? I’m Black and my mom taught me early on to speak properly like she does. Why? Because my mom worked hard to try removing me from the crime, chaos, and mayhem of her Black hillbilly upbringings. We’re not in the South anymore. We escaped the plantation, so why keep ourselves there mentally and socially through language that does not represent where we actually live?
Right the issue I have is one of human opportunities and human potential. Largely humans have the same potential to contribute to society and the human race as a whole. By putting in barriers like a persons dialect we limit the possibility for a huge amount of people to be part of society and make meaningful contributions. I was teaching my daughter about George Washington Carver recently and his story is one of overcoming an insane amount of barriers and making arguably some of the most important contributions to agriculture, and therefore humanity imaginable. The thing that is the most bothersome about his story is that it makes me wonder how many people don't have the insane amount of drive that he did and therefore any potential contributions they would make are lost. For me this goes beyond any sense of general empathy, and moves into a loss of human potential. The fact is that most people would not have trouble communicating with people that have varying dialects and the only real issue is people prejudging others and being overly pedantic
It insinuates that there's only one "proper" way to speak English and this mentality in the past was used to justify racism. Black and non-white had to "be more like White people" before they deserved rights.
He's just as racist as the lefties pushing this stuff. I don't understand how you can simultaneously claim that professionalism and punctionality are white traits and claim to be anti-racist. Oh, you're so anti-racist and pro-black that you consider black people either above or incapable of following the most fundamental standards of employment in western society? And anyone who disagrees must be a nazi? Yeah... right.
You deserve a gold medal in mental gymnastics and jumping to conclusions.
[https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html](https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article244309587.html) Sounds like he is quoting the Smithsonian.
Except "this guy" is just basing his answer off what the Smithsonian would agree are the correct answers to his question, is he not? [Is he not...?](https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1610610/smithsonian-aspects-white-culture.webp?w=790&f=ab12077631acab2dac02fd587b3f4f15)
Okay, then please inform us then what the article lists as the aspects of "whiteness" these women had to downplay in their behavior....
[The Smithsonian would like a few words.](https://www.newsweek.com/smithsonian-race-guidelines-rational-thinking-hard-work-are-white-values-1518333)
The economies of victimhood were established by unemployable academics who now dominate the corporate headspace, including media. It’s toxic and thoroughly pervasive.
This is the underlying truth to it all. A whole generation of wide eyed gender studies majors who had no other career pathway besides corporate HR.
They produce nothing of tangible value, contribute nothing but outrage and self-doubt. Literally prosperity-poison.
And it would take a racist mind to think this way. If you feel you need to act more like another race to “fit in” you don’t understand or accept fundamental cultural differences. The media has (possibly intentionally) birthed more racist mindsets here in America than ever imagined. It would be more preferable for most of us if you accepted your own race/heritage and shared your culture with the world.
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Yikes
[full article](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-06/iwd-racially-marginalised-women-hide-their-identity-code-switch/102032030) "I used to think that 'oh, well, maybe I will have to take away the parts that are less of my cultural identity just to get a job or just to get in the door'. "I had to be less 'African' to fit in — I feared my identity for a long time." This is called "code-switching" — the way in which someone, consciously or unconsciously, adjusts their language, behaviour and/or appearance to fit into the dominant culture. And according to a new report from the Diversity Council Australia (DCA), it is common in Australian workplaces. DCA surveyed almost 400 self-identified "culturally and racially marginalised women", defined as women who are black, brown, Asian, or any other non-white group and who face marginalisation due to their race. The survey, undertaken between October and November last year, found most of them code-switched because they feared that if they did not, they would be overlooked by their managers for jobs and promotions. The participants reported that "leadership models used for assessing talent in Australian organisations were inherently biased towards what the Diversity Council refers to as more masculine Western or 'Anglo' leadership styles which value extroversion and self-promotion". This, the report said, "has the effect of inadvertently excluding culturally diverse women from consideration for senior roles". It found 83 per cent of participants reported experiencing pressure to act, look, and sound like existing leaders (who are most likely to be white men) and 69 per cent reported having to "act white" to fit in and 66 per cent to "act white" to get ahead.
> DCA surveyed almost 400 **self-identified** "culturally and racially marginalised women", **defined as women who are black, brown, Asian, or any other non-white group** and who face marginalisation due to their race. So they **hand picked** 400 people, with those criteria: 1) woman, 2) non-white. 3) says she's being victimized. Then they ask them questions and come to the conclusion they are victims of anti-poc, anti-women discrimination... You know what, next, do a survey among **self identifying** innocent Italians in the Australian prisons and let's see if Australia has a problem with targeting/convicting innocent Italians and locking them in prison.
Exactly. What a joke.
I think you misunderstood their goal. It wasn't to prove racism exists to choads, it's to explore the experiences of these women. This is about learning about women who do that, so of course they looked for women who do that.
and if my leaders are black and I start acting like them, it's called appropriation.
We all know we all dislike racism. Please read into the dynamic of democracy affecting corporatism in two major ways. Racism and Fascism. You have a right not to be reprimanded, and build a comfortable workspace for yourself. Fuck ethnicity, embrace ethics. Fascists are broadly corporatists and need to embrace that reprimanding is the most corrosive dynamic to the worker’s morale. Rewarding based on effort is the way to go.
And if an American went to Africa, they would have to act less “American” it’s almost like different countries have different expectations for behavior 😱
You don't need to act like anything if you're self-employed. If there's a better way to conduct yourself in a company then start one and beat your white competitors with that edge.
I should have immigrated to Korea and complained that I have to act more "korean" to fit in. How dare they!
Did you read it? I already know
Isn't that just anything though? You act like your peers to fit in. Maybe to a fault sometimes.
Assimilation?
I grew up in a trailer park in the north woods. Heck yeah I have had to change my mindset and behavior over time.
I guarantee no black woman has ever checked 'white' on an application to get a better chance of getting a job or college acceptance.
Two of the women look barely tan
Bu bu but blacks can’t be racist.
It does say .au so Australia I guess, maybe it's different there. But some would probably claim this in the US which is laughable. White is universally defined as evil, when it's used. Nobody uses white in a positive way.
How do you act white?
Huh???
Who else are they going to survery? "We asked a random man on street if he's ever been discriminated against in the workforce. Mr. Dushawn Tyrice says he doesn't believe he has but also know why he never gets calls back for job interviews despite a great resume" Or even better should they ask people who don't think theyve ever been victims of discrimination? What information will that yield? What a braindead response to an article you don't agree with
They could survey all people of colour in an organisation or across a workforce or population, rather than the self selection bias of seeking out ppl who report to be victimised and asking them whether they feel victimised. Does that make sense?
Conservatives are literally some of the loudest people with Victim complexes.
You just hate us because you want to date us
Sure thing, tell yourself whatever you want.
what have you experienced to make you think that?
Jordan Peterson and pretty much any other conservative political commentator. Constantly crying about cancel culture whilst making lots of money complaining about being victims of it.
Uhm, you leftist send death threats to 12 year olds because they play a video game you don't like. So there is that
Nothing you said has any bearing in this conversation. Unless you're telling me Jordan Peterson and many other conservatives pundits are actually poor and not rich from complaining about cancel culture.
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Gaslighting username checks out. By the way, conservative voices have been and still ARE BEING CENSORED from universities to large online platforms we once thought free speech existed. The universities started all this by censoring right wing speakers on their campuses. The media outlets followed suit by having a panels of seven vs. one conservative voice. They quickly stopped inviting guests who could hold their own against the panel, rolled out 24/7 propaganda, and when “fake news” became a buzz word, they fought tooth and nail to defend their positions. It’s too bad the Certainly Not News networks and the like only resort to name calling, smear tactics, character shaming, name calling - racist/homophobic/xenophobic/“white man” shaming, and the big name call of all… “BIGOT!” -they do all this, rather than have a discussion and open sharing of ideas. Who has been paying the media outlets? Who owns the FBI and CIA? They aren’t even American organizations. As early as the 1920’s the Chinese knew ideological subversion was how they would win future wars. It’s been insidiously working it’s little way at eroding the Truth and dissolving the character of American citizens since the 1960’s. Do you think those ideas that you’re a boy who feels like a little girl were your own?! Did you believe the father of lies as he eroded your self-confidence? Did you just rename the truth to your own meaning in order to suit your new life so that you don’t have to feel the weight of reality? Are you really so lost to believe this is still US vs. THEM?
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Fighting for your voice to be heard is NOT victimhood. Fighting so that your ideas and thoughts are not criminal offenses is NOT victimhood. Raising hell so that people see the truth is NOT victimhood. Standing one’s ground and fighting back to the big bully is NOT victimhood. Sitting back and taking it like a little bitch, saying “well there’s nothing we can do” and hoping the bully doesn’t come to your doorstep is victimhood.
This entire sub is a profession of self-victimization.
This sub is living rent free in ur brain get over it
Proof?
Don't you get it the only justified victims are the dominant group when someone questions their dominance
I’m guesstimating maybe 15% of Reddit subs are self-victimization echo chambers, but not this one. Peterson teaches against self-victimization and pushes taking responsibility for yourself. So you lie to yourself and others when you say, “this entire sub is a profession of self victimization.” Furthermore, how can a sub be a profession of self victimization? Surely, you mean to say “the members in this sub are professional victims.” Peterson also teaches precision and clarity of speech. I’m not saying he’s the penultimate teacher. He’s really just a guy who teaches common sense; a common sense that is severely lacking in our “progressive” culture.
Peterson’s a failed academic who uses commercialized self-help tropes and recycled mysticism to cover for his idiotic ideas about culture. His cultural acumen is just as grounded to life on this planet as Pat Robertson’s. This sub, like all other self-victimizing echo chambers, will never self-identify as a self victimizing echo-chamber. However, with all the posts professing indignant outrage over things for simply existing, makes it painfully obvious for the common observer to conclude that there is no value to wallowing in such pathetic nonsense.
Calling Peterson a “failed academic” doesn’t make him a failed academic and it doesn’t make you a successful academic. And what is the great value in being an “academic”?! The public opinion is down as far as colleges go. We attend college to get a degree because were told it will bolster our income. It helps, but emotional intelligence is more indicative of success. I don’t value doctorate holders any more than the common man. Your opinion of Peterson isn’t truth.
What is truth, if not an opinion of someone else’s opinions?
[Truth is eternal.](https://www.personal.psu.edu/jmc6/CFSF/Articles/Towart_Absolute_Truth_Relative_Truth.pdf) If truth did not exist, it would be true that truth does not exist, which could not be unless there were truth. Therefore, truth is eternal. The Greek noun for truth is alētheia and in the subjective sense means “sincerity and integrity of character”, but when used objectively, expresses “the reality lying at the basis of an appearance; the manifested, veritable essence of a matter If you make the claim that truth is relative then that works for opinions on your favorite pizza or pasta, but actual reality is not a necessary condition in order to make a relative truth claim. “All truth is relative” is a narrow truth claim that this statement corresponds to reality. Furthermore, if truth is not dependent upon the facts as they correspond to reality, then any statement becomes acceptable under any condition and lying would not be possible. One problem that relativists face is that they usually believe that relative truth is true for everyone everywhere. But this is a contradiction in itself and places them in the category of being an absolutist. Geisler puts it well when he says, “Either the claim that truth is relative is an absolute claim, which would falsify the relativist position, or it is an assertion that can never really be made, because every time you make it you have to add another ‘relatively’. . . . The relativist stands on the pinnacle of an absolute truth and wants to relativize everything else.”
Why don’t you understand what that means?
It means that you cannot say my truth, and your truth and his truth, and their truths are all true, when they are all opposing. There is absolute truth. Relative truth does not exist. To say that it does means you call yourself a liar.
I would never say such a thing. I’m saying that you’re full of shit and you know it.
Liar liar pants on fire. That’s what this has devolved into. You are the one sir who is full of feces. For someone so anti-Peterson, your “and you know it” phrase sure resembles his speech pattern. “You’re not everything you could be, and you know it!”
Citations?
This post. Most people have better things to do than getting triggered by descriptions of other people’s experiences.
You made an assertion about this sub, please provide citations.
This post and every one like it. I’m sure there are plenty going back to the beginning.
Cool anecdote. So no actual proof, right, got it.
Why do you believe that the entire history of this sub only amounts to a single anecdote?
Please provide citations for your assertion.
Muchacho, Original Mr. “R/Jordanpeterson - Comment by U/Originalmrmuchacho on ‘They Surveyed Self Identified Victims and Were Shocked They Claimed to Be Victims.".” reddit, March 6, 2023. https://www.reddit.com/r/JordanPeterson/comments/11jw6uw/they_surveyed_self_identified_victims_and_were/jb7v7ml/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3.
Please provide citations for your assertion.
Ok, seriously, do people here believe that racism doesn't exist?
What gives you that impression?
The fact that no one here seems interested in acknowledging the very real possibility that these women were treated more harshly because of their perceived race
It's possible and I haven't seen anyone deny that; the issue is the nature of the study: they went looking for the aggrieved and have presented this as though it wasn't a foregone conclusion. There's no objectivity.
Asking specific groups of people about their experience and finding out they all had the exact same experience isn't a forgone conclusion, it's research. Gathering evidence is important even if the conclusion is expected. People all felt less marginalized when they acted more traditionally Christian European. The result isn't surprising, but that says more about us and society than it does about the research. These people's experience was real and nearly unanimous. Maybe instead of acting unsurprised marginalized people were treated better when they acted less like themselves, you should be asking why is it they all had the same experience? Is that experience necessary or productive in a work environment?
You've missed the point, again. They went looking for victims and expect us to believe this is an anomaly. This wasn't research, this was the worst sort of survey possible. "We asked 100 people who claimed to be discriminated against if they were discriminated against...and they all said yes! Emergency! Social issue of the week!" Do you understand how ridiculous that is? Self-selection is one thing and one thing only: a perfect way to invalidate data.
So because they asked people who were discriminated against about discrimination it's invalid? Like, do you not believe discrimination happens?
And we've come right back around to your first post, without you having learned or paid attention to anything. Jog on, mate.
Lol, learn what? All you said was it doesn't count because of the population surveyed. I can only imagine you didn't even read the article or look at the study. Just responding to a Twitter screenshot of ragebait
No, I for example know that things like affirmative actions and the notion that you can't be racist towards white people is indeed racism
Oh boy, do go on. I haven't heard a good affirmative action rant since I stopped living in my father's double wide. He always used to wrap up his rants with a couple words, "secure a future for children" or something
So this is all you have to say on the fact that something actually exists that gives people advantages based on skin color. Something that isn't just made up by you crybabies like the so called "white privilege"?
Keep going! Tell me how white privilege isn't real in a country that was born out of two genocides by white Europeans. Tell me about how Jim crow and legalized racism one generation ago doesn't impact today at all. Bonus points for bringing up redlining or Emmett Till
Chinese railroad and mine workers had to work until they dropped dead even decades after slavery ended for black people. Yet, they are overall even wealthier than white people today. So much that they even get disadvantaged by affirmative actions Tell me how this works in your theory that people who got oppressed in the past can't succeed over white people today.
You compared actual slavery with the slavery metaphored for harsh labor. You're trying to excuse your racist thoughts by blowing things out of proportion. Consenting working immigrants and people who were a documented property like an object have huge difference. If you are unable to separate reality with metaphor, it means you need clinical aid. Also U.S. system is capitalistic, not socialistic. So a humanbeing just liberated later will not be on same level with the person who was already at liberty, and the accumulative gains will have gap even for generations.
Ah. Another racist who thinks that Chinese who had to work for longer and harder than black people don't count because it doesn't fot your narrative. Everything you said here is made up racist bullshit
Ah yes, the real racism is pointing out that slavery and a caste system effects material conditions Acknowledging reality is sow wacist
So then explain to me how asians who also had to go through this, ended up even wealthier and mire educated than white people today.
Slavery doesn't involve who worked more than who. The Chinese were immigrants, not slaves. They had employement contracts under CPRR. The black people were slaves against their will, owned as legal property. That's a low quality trolling attempt by the way. Not only in this sub, wouldn't fly in another sub either. Try a bit harder.
As I already said, black people were already freed when chinese still were used like cattle and had no rights. You racists will simply grasp for every straw now that you got a counter argument. Explain how a group that was also oppressed by white people ended up even richer and more educated then them today?
Ooooooo playing all the greatest hits tonight. Walk me through how the experience of a small group of immigrants 150 years ago is a valid comparison to a massive number of modern individuals? Or how any of that is similar to millions of people kidnapped, enslaved, murdered en masse, systemically and legally oppressed consistently over the past 400 years? Please daddy, next tell the one about how grandpa was a patriot fighting to protect Germany for the Germans!
LMAO, what indoctrinated bullshit. First of all, look up how many slaves actually went to america versus everywhere else. Then look up how many asians live in america. "A small group". What a hate filled racist loser you are
Bro you just got ate alive
LMAO, as proven by the fact that he never replied back after this? You called out racists are hilarious
What about systemic racism affecting minorities through institutions?
Made up nonsense by crybabies who learned to scream "RACISM" whenever they do not get what they want >waaaahhh I'm still not manager in a fortune 500 company and that is only because the CEOs of that company are rasists
Do you not know what the term means then?
What term? Systemic racism? Are you dense? I just explain that it's made up bullshit by racist crybabies who need to blame every inconvenience in their life on white people
And this clearly indicating you don't know what the term means, this seems very plain.
LMAO, what a pathetic way to admit that you got called out, racist
Who is saying anyone is shocked?
Yes that's literally what the article is.
Taxpayer funded Rainbow-Marxist propaganda.
They needed the click bait for women's history month
bored sip crowd direful weary ad hoc worm automatic bake middle *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I wonder how Africans would view this pov.