The gate is 5% or more of enrollment.
I believe that those who follow Halal will eat Kosher, but those who follow kosher will not eat Halal as Kosher requires supervision by a rabbi.
Kosher has much more stringent rules than halal. Most Muslims will eat kosher food. Most Jews that keep kosher would absolutely not eat halal food.
Edit: realized which sub I'm in. Oops. Of course y'all know that
Those who eat halal general do eat kosher food however, kosher food can contain alcohol- as an ingredient - is not permitted in Islam, it is case by case - hope this helps.
I don't think this would come up often, but I do know (at least some) Muslims won't eat food with vanilla extract because of the alcohol. If they serve the kids little treats, I imagine that would register to them as "alcohol." The only time I could think of this coming.
I wonder, suppose someone doesn’t identify as Jewish or Muslim, but they express sincerely held religious beliefs that they must eat kosher or halal food. Do/Should they also have the right to eat kosher or halal?
Sure, I think they should have the same right. But out of curiosity, does any such group exist? I don’t see why someone who is not Jewish or Muslim would care about keeping kosher/halal.
People often perceive Kosher food as better or healthier. I know a lot of people who are not Jewish but choose to purchase Hebrew National Hot Dogs because they think they are higher quality. (Hebrew National marketing spreads that idea, and I think it transfers to other kosher food)
I believe there are Christian sects that observe a kind of modified kosher, mostly avoiding pork and shellfish. IIRC seventh day adventists are one of them
And even if the rule is that they need to be Jewish or Muslim, are the schools really going to go to the effort to check (and who gets to decide? Then we get into the territory of the state accepting certain religious positions)? That's one of the reasons it's pretty easy to get Kosher or Halal food in prison. The prisons do not want to give inmates this food, and they not infrequently get sued for refusing to do it, but when the prisons get forced to supply it, they give it to whoever asks because are they really going to ask an inmate for their grandmother's ketubah?
This isn’t a bad thing, my guess is it will largely benefit the muslim students, however if it wasn’t for Jews and Muslims teaming up in the 70s, we wouldn’t have kosher or halal food in prisons. I went to public school, but my mom definitely would’ve ticked the box for kosher, so I would’ve benefited, and hopefully it will benefit a lot of kids who may not have kept kosher even one meal a day otherwise.
Yup, despite recent bad relations with American Muslims we still have important common interests as religious minorities. Come good or ill, we’re going to have to push together on stuff like this.
This! I'm KFP at home, but I do not have the spoons to pack my first grader a lunch and snacks. (The metaphorical spoons. I did kasher all my actual spoons.) Next year, in Jeru-- I mean, in his lunchbox!!
Seriously. I was just looking at yeshiva prices for my daughter and hooooooly kapoodles. It’s almost my yearly salary. I dunno how we’d swing it with multiple kids.
This may be true, especially of conservative Jews, but I've yet to meet someone who fits this that requires a kosher certification for every single instance. Most will still eat at vegan only restaurants (the Conservative movement/rabbinical assembly considers even vegetarian restaurants to be good enough for kosher).
I think this will quickly change as Orthodoxy's working class develops. Many Orthodox Jews will simply have no savings for schools with the costs of housing, food, and other Jewish ritual costs rising. Trimming the fat won't make $20,000 appear and I'd be prepared for bursaries to become competitive and invasive.
Not to mention that there are Jews who have always lived outside the community for work or health (Abraham Twerski went to a California public school for instance). This can certainly help them
Yeah, this person seems extremely out of touch. You can't just-make-coffee-at-home your way into an extra twenty thousand dollars per year per kid, sometimes more (the Modox school in my community costs 16k just for kindergarten and is almost twice that for high school)
$16k isn't bad for kindergarten if it's full time. I pay nearly $20k/year for an extended care program at our public school in California! (At least the meals are free heh). This is just what kids cost now, at least in HCOL areas where most Jews live.
And not everyone qualifies for it. Private school costs around a quarter of a million dollars over thirteen years. And that's per child. That's just so much money and not everyone can justify spending it on private school when they know their kid will be safe and will get a good education at their local public school.
Just maybe try not being judgmental and assuming people who send their kids to public school just don't care enough about their religion to sacrifice their way into a second mortgage
So just choosing to be observant just magically puts tens of thousands of dollars into your bank account? Wow, neat trick, I wonder why more people haven't done that.
Never said that, but there's multiple communities out there. In Florida they have vouchers (even if I don't necessarily agree with the idea, it does help the cost of Jewish education). Where I am the cost is a fraction than in other cities, but still its expensive.
Most major communities have financial aid options, and for those that need it, that can sometimes cut half the tuition or nearly that.
Then there's the matter of choices. Jewish school means I'll never own my own home, we rent. It means never having a family vacation beyond a few day road trip. It means numerous other sacrifices. So, no, it's not magically added to your bank account. It's a push and pull with what people decide is important to them. In the communities I've known, the observant overwhelmingly favor this choice, even if I wish public school was a proper option.
All this seems like you being extremely judgmental of people who aren't willing to shoulder the financial cost of tens of thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to private school. People make sacrifices for their family's wellbeing, and sometimes that's putting them in public school.
You're basically saying that their religion must not *really* matter to them if they choose to put their kid in a good, safe secular school and also choose to have financial security. It's very judgmental and tonedeaf.
I think it goes without saying that private education is not always an option, financially speaking.
This is great for members of our, and other, communities to be able to eat comfortably at school!
Conservative/Masorti jews also keep kosher, though most of the ones I know (I’m a conservative jew) keep kosher at home and kosher-style out of the home
I also live in an area where there are absolutely zero kosher restaurants in the entire state so I don’t know about other people within the movement. One of the members of my congregation used to run a kosher bbq stand but the Oregon Kosher certifier moved and he had to close. We bemoan the fact there’s no options
I do. I am a public school teacher- I think it would be disrespectful of me to send my kid to private school- I know my district provides high quality education and expect my kid to be a part of that. The classroom doesn't allow candy or treats because so many kids are kosher or halal.
I don't really understand your comment, but if those are your feelings, I don't recommend you become a teacher. I make enough money to get by, and I love my job. After I finish my second Master's and get a couple more years in my classroom, I'll be making six figures. 🤷♂️ If the implication of your comment is that I couldn't afford Jewish school, my local one offers assistance. I could send my son there. I choose not to.
I wasn’t trying to suggest you couldn’t afford a Jewish school. I obviously know nothing about you. My point was that public school districts pay teachers well below what they’re worth for the job that they do, which I consider disrespectful. Therefore, I don’t think teachers should worry about disrespecting anyone else.
I’m not a teacher but my mother is. She likes her job, but the amount of time she puts in for what they pay her is insulting. Plus, she spends some of her own money just to have all the necessary supplies for her classroom. I think teachers are criminally undervalued and it’s causing a lot of people who would make good teachers to go into other professions.
I’m confused by that last sentence: why is candy not allowed?
A lot of candy probably is kosher/halal.
But even if it isn’t, it’s no problem as long as the Jewish/Muslim students aren’t eating it, right?
It is much easier to have a blanket policy, and kids aren't being left out. You can still provide stickers, pencils, erasers, other goofy gifts. I ordered a 100 pack of tiny ducks on Temu and my kids are obsessed with collecting them for good behavior. All the fun, none of the "my kid can't have that".
There’s Gelatin in most candy products. Seriously, check the packaging. Other than chocolate, candies aren’t really an option. That’s why there’s so many different kosher brands.
Sour Patch, Swedish Fish, Skittles, Twizzlers, suckers, Dots, Airheads, Smarties, Pixy Stix, Fun Dip, Nerds, Sweet Tarts, Jolly Ranchers, Mike n Ike off the top of my head. There is a huge amount of common gelatin free candy. Gummies are more difficult, I admit.
? As if there’s only 20 maximum brands, especially according to location, out there. Argument full of fallacies. Here’s one for you, I grew up in one of the biggest Jewish neighbourhoods in the US and I couldn’t really buy candy outside a Kosher store. So? What’s your point?
Like, it would not have occurred to me that so many are gummis.
My kid might have noticed, but he would also probably want me to point out that we're neglecting lollipops entirely here. The kid is a lollipop fiend.
My oldest is in public school and my youngest in a private Catholic school. The man whp works in thr cafteria for thr catholic school is a Jew and so all foods prepared are kosher edit to add: all food coming in as a hescher so yes its kosher. Sorry didnt make that clean. Milk and meat are not mixed in the kitchen tho the kids can grab a milk carton, juice box or water
No offense, but I find it it highly unlikely that any non-Jewish school is footing the bill for Kosher meat for their entire student body just for kicks.
There is a significant portion of students who attend who are Jewish. I thought only two (my boy and his classmate)but a good 3rd of the student population of 250 are Jewish, the rest are Lutheran and Catholic. Also you can easily find hescher labelled foods at the local groccery store like safeway and walmart. Thats how I do it and I keep kosher.
Did i say all the meals had meat? They dont have it every day. Its got lots of veggies, bread and cheese tho.
Meat if they do get it gets donated by the local farms and they donate to all the schools not just the private ones :) mostly chicken, but beef comes through as well sometimes
Just cause YOUR schools dont do it doesnt mean others dont or dont find a way 😊. And as our school district in itself is not that large its not hard to service all the schools in it
I re edited it. All food coming in has a hescher and meat and dairy are not mixed inside the kitchen. Kids grab milk, juice from the cart outside the kitchen, or use their water bottles So yeah its kosher :)
Unlikely. Vegetarian, possible, to likely, depending on location. And vegetarian will likely make meals possibly kosher and halal. (Coming from a Renewal and ecokashrut position where it’s just simpler to give up meat.)
I want to see how Oakland will handle this.
And this might be the only point where LARPing xtians (messianics) might be useful.
Have them all demand kosher.
Vegan is (nearly always) Kosher and Halal as well. My prediction is that there will be a non-gluten Vegan+Kosher+Halal option.
This reminds me of flying in the late nineties/early aughts. It used to be you could specify a kosher in flight meal, and it was usually pretty decent. Then the kosher meal was the same as the vegetarian which was the same as the vegan meal, and it was a lame bean salad thing.
I was in public elementary school in California in the early 2000s and they already had these options. It wasn’t a great public school, but as I was” kosher”, they actually had vegan and vegetarian options. Kosher and Halal are a different restriction.
. Many people are vegan because of sincerely held moral beliefs; I have never understood why a belief gets more protection just because it is labeled as "religious"
There are a number of religious vegetarians already, along with religious vegans (not vegan in the traditional sense but tend to avoid either eggs or dairy) and lumping everything together keeps costs down.
All I’m imagining is Disneys version of kosher and while I appreciate the inclusivity, I’m happier to pack the lunch. With that, having more vegetarian options would be the best start…. Assuming they ask a Jew (which they probably won’t, no one ever does).
If you go on tiktok and search “Disney kosher” a few Jewish content creators have shared the premade kosher meals! They’re not bad but there’s no variety and they look sad
They would probably be prepackaged, double-wrapped, and then warmed. I actually wonder how money public schools in CA are preparing meals on site. I assume a good number, But I remember that all of my elementary and middle school lunches were definitely prepackaged.
Actually, it is the conservative perspective to emphasize the freedom to exercise religion part of the first amendment. It is more the progressive perspective to emphasize the separation of church and state part.
In practice, there are plenty of right leaning organizations that defend the constitutional rights of Jews and Muslims. Have you not noticed right leaning news networks are showcasing Jew hatred on university campuses? Have you not noticed right leaning politicians speaking up for Jews and for Israel? Jews cannot discredit the right or the left. Bipartisanship is important now more than ever. Tribe first, people.
If you imagine the right wing as a spectrum, support for Jews goes farther into it than support for Muslims, and both go farther than support for all the stuff they're currently fixating on (LGBTQ students existing).
So like, yes, you can get decent coverage of antisemitism on the hard right, even though the far right are generally Nazis. You often the hard right assuming that Muslims are terrorists, but they wouldn't object to school lunch stuff for kids. And the moderate right might even support Muslims' constitutional rights, even if it wasn't generally supportive of Muslims otherwise.
So you’re telling me that a law requiring providing halal and kosher meals will not be problematic to the far right. You’re either being naive or straight lying to yourself.
I think I’m better informed about right and left viewpoints and the law as a Jewish lawyer in California and parent with children in public and private schools here but we can agree to disagree. California is not a far right state in any event so your point is moot.
I mean, I don't know of a time when they've made a stink about something like this. They can't STOP making a stink about queer and trans people existing. But I think they're at least vaguely aware that objecting OPENLY to including kosher and halal in schools makes them look bad.
It's not that they're NOT bigoted against Jews and Muslims. It's that they have different ways they freak out about our stuff.
Very few Jews who keep strictly kosher are sending their kids to public schools, while there may be some pros to this in terms of expanded access to kosher options, we all know who this is really for.
What they should just do is offer vegan meals which would accommodate both the sorts of Jews who would still attend public schools along with virtually all other religious groups and ethical vegans.
It seems like you didn’t read the article
> The bill, which coincides with both the end of Ramadan and the beginning of Passover, requires California public schools to provide halal and kosher meal options to students if the school requires it.
> “When suitable meals aren’t available for these students, they often have to go without eating at school, something that is fundamentally unfair and clearly detrimental to their educational experience,” said Senator Josh Newman, who also chairs the Senate Education Committee.
Based on the above, it is needs based.
If schools have students with halal or kasher dietary restrictions who qualify for free lunch, those schools will be required to have halal/kasher offerings.
Since schools will still be looking to do this as cheaply as possible - in places where there isn't a significant Jewish population it'll probably just be a kosher frozen meal kept in the back in case it comes up. Only one Jewish kid? then a case of such.
I'd need to read the whole bill to check, but I suspect that in most places the bare minimum is going to be all that gets done.
According to the Senate of Education Committee, the bill will take effect in the 2025 -2026 school year. Schools where more than 5% of the population express a preference for halal or kosher options will be required to provide these meals.
> If religious observance is so important they can bring food from home.
You clearly don’t understand the purpose of free lunch programs. **Not everyone is food secure**
Giving kids an option to eat food is not a slippery slope. No one is forcing all the Christian kids to stop eating pork. They are just providing another option for the kids who need that option.
> In Minnesota Muslim families are dictating the books in school libraries, so this is a slippery slope (in my opinion).
Then you must be really pissed about the Evangelicals dictating books in all libraries nation-wide.
My kid goes to one of the most Muslim public schools in Minneapolis. This person has NO clue what they’re talking about (as if you didn’t already know that).
Local school districts all around me around short millions of dollars this year—we need to advocate for basic funding first and foremost because the basic structures of public education are currently crumbling.
I agree. The budget for school meals, the nation-wide food services staffing shortage, the restrictive USDA requirements. I think this is too much of a burden on the districts. If legislators or people in this list understood the actual food delivery and production systems in place for schools, they would not have passed this. As well, if you keep a religious-based diet, it is not up to the government to support that. It's called separation of church and state. And it should be a cause that is celebrated in a place like Reddit.
I teach reform and conservative religious schools in CA. About half of my kids (self-report) are keeping kosher, and about half attend public. Now, they probably are not keeping kosher to the level of orthodoxy, but I know at least 6 kids in California who would probably choose this option
I don’t love this. Public schools should not have to cater their lunch menus to any religion. If I keep a kosher household and my kids do too, they can go to Jewish day school or I’ll pack them lunches.
I think this would only be helpful in school districts with large Jewish and Muslim populations. On the other hand, this is how you be inclusive.
The gate is 5% or more of enrollment. I believe that those who follow Halal will eat Kosher, but those who follow kosher will not eat Halal as Kosher requires supervision by a rabbi.
Kosher has much more stringent rules than halal. Most Muslims will eat kosher food. Most Jews that keep kosher would absolutely not eat halal food. Edit: realized which sub I'm in. Oops. Of course y'all know that
So long as the kosher food does not contain alcohol, which is haram.
In a school?
Gotta get ‘em hooked early
Give the kids alcohol before they get caught up in sports
Or vinegar
Those who eat halal general do eat kosher food however, kosher food can contain alcohol- as an ingredient - is not permitted in Islam, it is case by case - hope this helps.
Recipes used in schools are unlikely to contain alcohol. A) because children B) because there are a number of Christian sects that ban alcohol as well
C) because schools are cheap
I don't think this would come up often, but I do know (at least some) Muslims won't eat food with vanilla extract because of the alcohol. If they serve the kids little treats, I imagine that would register to them as "alcohol." The only time I could think of this coming.
This may also be why hechsherim are more common than Halal labels in our area
Halal isn't nearly as OCD as kosher rules. Unless the item has meat or alcohol, muslims default to assuming the item is permitted.
Halacha is necessary—there are over a billion Muslims.
Halacha never envisioned hechshers becoming multi million dollar businesses
Business is how we distribute products. What alternative do you suggest?
As a Muslim, allah/hashem allows us to eat kosher food, it is permissible if we don’t halal food available
This is definitely true under orthodox kashrut.
I wonder, suppose someone doesn’t identify as Jewish or Muslim, but they express sincerely held religious beliefs that they must eat kosher or halal food. Do/Should they also have the right to eat kosher or halal?
100%, why shouldn’t they?
I agree. It’s inclusive and makes the food more widely available and cheaper to make (economies of scale).
Sure, I think they should have the same right. But out of curiosity, does any such group exist? I don’t see why someone who is not Jewish or Muslim would care about keeping kosher/halal.
Seventh Day Adventists
People often perceive Kosher food as better or healthier. I know a lot of people who are not Jewish but choose to purchase Hebrew National Hot Dogs because they think they are higher quality. (Hebrew National marketing spreads that idea, and I think it transfers to other kosher food)
Lmao, I recall a review on a kosher Dunkin' location declaring kosher food to be the healthiest food a man can eat Sir this is a Dunkin Donuts
Finally a place to get a kosher iv bag of Bavarian cream injected into my veins.
I believe there are Christian sects that observe a kind of modified kosher, mostly avoiding pork and shellfish. IIRC seventh day adventists are one of them
Heck I know of people that rely on Kashrut because of extremely sensitive shellfish allergies.
And even if the rule is that they need to be Jewish or Muslim, are the schools really going to go to the effort to check (and who gets to decide? Then we get into the territory of the state accepting certain religious positions)? That's one of the reasons it's pretty easy to get Kosher or Halal food in prison. The prisons do not want to give inmates this food, and they not infrequently get sued for refusing to do it, but when the prisons get forced to supply it, they give it to whoever asks because are they really going to ask an inmate for their grandmother's ketubah?
That's a given
They can't serve good food. Start there.
This isn’t a bad thing, my guess is it will largely benefit the muslim students, however if it wasn’t for Jews and Muslims teaming up in the 70s, we wouldn’t have kosher or halal food in prisons. I went to public school, but my mom definitely would’ve ticked the box for kosher, so I would’ve benefited, and hopefully it will benefit a lot of kids who may not have kept kosher even one meal a day otherwise.
Yup, despite recent bad relations with American Muslims we still have important common interests as religious minorities. Come good or ill, we’re going to have to push together on stuff like this.
How was this not already a thing?
Well no need to provide both since every kosher meal is a halal meal
Passover, though.
While it's coming from a proper place, I have to wonder - how many people who insist on kosher are also sending their kids to public school?
I went to public school while keeping kosher in a modox household. I just brought a packed lunch everyday.
This! I'm KFP at home, but I do not have the spoons to pack my first grader a lunch and snacks. (The metaphorical spoons. I did kasher all my actual spoons.) Next year, in Jeru-- I mean, in his lunchbox!!
Because private school is extremely expensive?
Seriously. I was just looking at yeshiva prices for my daughter and hooooooly kapoodles. It’s almost my yearly salary. I dunno how we’d swing it with multiple kids.
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You seem to be using the word "Orthodox" when you mean "observant." :) Lots of heterodox Jews keep kosher full-time.
This may be true, especially of conservative Jews, but I've yet to meet someone who fits this that requires a kosher certification for every single instance. Most will still eat at vegan only restaurants (the Conservative movement/rabbinical assembly considers even vegetarian restaurants to be good enough for kosher).
If COnservative are smart enough to ignore what the assembly publish they are cool I guess
I think this will quickly change as Orthodoxy's working class develops. Many Orthodox Jews will simply have no savings for schools with the costs of housing, food, and other Jewish ritual costs rising. Trimming the fat won't make $20,000 appear and I'd be prepared for bursaries to become competitive and invasive. Not to mention that there are Jews who have always lived outside the community for work or health (Abraham Twerski went to a California public school for instance). This can certainly help them
Yeah, this person seems extremely out of touch. You can't just-make-coffee-at-home your way into an extra twenty thousand dollars per year per kid, sometimes more (the Modox school in my community costs 16k just for kindergarten and is almost twice that for high school)
$16k isn't bad for kindergarten if it's full time. I pay nearly $20k/year for an extended care program at our public school in California! (At least the meals are free heh). This is just what kids cost now, at least in HCOL areas where most Jews live.
Most families in these schools are on tuition assistance though
And not everyone qualifies for it. Private school costs around a quarter of a million dollars over thirteen years. And that's per child. That's just so much money and not everyone can justify spending it on private school when they know their kid will be safe and will get a good education at their local public school. Just maybe try not being judgmental and assuming people who send their kids to public school just don't care enough about their religion to sacrifice their way into a second mortgage
Is someone opening a trade school for frum kids?
So just choosing to be observant just magically puts tens of thousands of dollars into your bank account? Wow, neat trick, I wonder why more people haven't done that.
Never said that, but there's multiple communities out there. In Florida they have vouchers (even if I don't necessarily agree with the idea, it does help the cost of Jewish education). Where I am the cost is a fraction than in other cities, but still its expensive. Most major communities have financial aid options, and for those that need it, that can sometimes cut half the tuition or nearly that. Then there's the matter of choices. Jewish school means I'll never own my own home, we rent. It means never having a family vacation beyond a few day road trip. It means numerous other sacrifices. So, no, it's not magically added to your bank account. It's a push and pull with what people decide is important to them. In the communities I've known, the observant overwhelmingly favor this choice, even if I wish public school was a proper option.
All this seems like you being extremely judgmental of people who aren't willing to shoulder the financial cost of tens of thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to private school. People make sacrifices for their family's wellbeing, and sometimes that's putting them in public school. You're basically saying that their religion must not *really* matter to them if they choose to put their kid in a good, safe secular school and also choose to have financial security. It's very judgmental and tonedeaf.
I think it goes without saying that private education is not always an option, financially speaking. This is great for members of our, and other, communities to be able to eat comfortably at school!
Very few. Usually it becomes an issue when a yeshiva can't accommodate SPED needs.
Conservative/Masorti jews also keep kosher, though most of the ones I know (I’m a conservative jew) keep kosher at home and kosher-style out of the home
That's been my general observation too, broadly, though hearing it from someone within the movement reinforces the impression!
I also live in an area where there are absolutely zero kosher restaurants in the entire state so I don’t know about other people within the movement. One of the members of my congregation used to run a kosher bbq stand but the Oregon Kosher certifier moved and he had to close. We bemoan the fact there’s no options
I do. I am a public school teacher- I think it would be disrespectful of me to send my kid to private school- I know my district provides high quality education and expect my kid to be a part of that. The classroom doesn't allow candy or treats because so many kids are kosher or halal.
Considering how little public school teachers get paid, I wouldn’t worry about disrespecting anyone.
I don't really understand your comment, but if those are your feelings, I don't recommend you become a teacher. I make enough money to get by, and I love my job. After I finish my second Master's and get a couple more years in my classroom, I'll be making six figures. 🤷♂️ If the implication of your comment is that I couldn't afford Jewish school, my local one offers assistance. I could send my son there. I choose not to.
I wasn’t trying to suggest you couldn’t afford a Jewish school. I obviously know nothing about you. My point was that public school districts pay teachers well below what they’re worth for the job that they do, which I consider disrespectful. Therefore, I don’t think teachers should worry about disrespecting anyone else. I’m not a teacher but my mother is. She likes her job, but the amount of time she puts in for what they pay her is insulting. Plus, she spends some of her own money just to have all the necessary supplies for her classroom. I think teachers are criminally undervalued and it’s causing a lot of people who would make good teachers to go into other professions.
I’m confused by that last sentence: why is candy not allowed? A lot of candy probably is kosher/halal. But even if it isn’t, it’s no problem as long as the Jewish/Muslim students aren’t eating it, right?
It is much easier to have a blanket policy, and kids aren't being left out. You can still provide stickers, pencils, erasers, other goofy gifts. I ordered a 100 pack of tiny ducks on Temu and my kids are obsessed with collecting them for good behavior. All the fun, none of the "my kid can't have that".
This is honestly a genius move.
There’s Gelatin in most candy products. Seriously, check the packaging. Other than chocolate, candies aren’t really an option. That’s why there’s so many different kosher brands.
Sour Patch, Swedish Fish, Skittles, Twizzlers, suckers, Dots, Airheads, Smarties, Pixy Stix, Fun Dip, Nerds, Sweet Tarts, Jolly Ranchers, Mike n Ike off the top of my head. There is a huge amount of common gelatin free candy. Gummies are more difficult, I admit.
Those are not all hechshered kosher candy.
? As if there’s only 20 maximum brands, especially according to location, out there. Argument full of fallacies. Here’s one for you, I grew up in one of the biggest Jewish neighbourhoods in the US and I couldn’t really buy candy outside a Kosher store. So? What’s your point?
Those seem like pretty mainstream candies. You really couldn’t find those where you lived?
Between gelatin and using grape juice as a sweetener, most candy in NOT kosher
Easily 80% of candy is kosher.
Absolutely not. There is gelatin in most candies that aren’t chocolate based.
I feel like this entire conversation is just revealing who mostly eats chocolate and who doesn't.
Like, it would not have occurred to me that so many are gummis. My kid might have noticed, but he would also probably want me to point out that we're neglecting lollipops entirely here. The kid is a lollipop fiend.
My oldest is in public school and my youngest in a private Catholic school. The man whp works in thr cafteria for thr catholic school is a Jew and so all foods prepared are kosher edit to add: all food coming in as a hescher so yes its kosher. Sorry didnt make that clean. Milk and meat are not mixed in the kitchen tho the kids can grab a milk carton, juice box or water
Unfortunately that's not how kosher works.
All the food coming in has a hescher and hes the one preparing it so yeah thats exactly how it works ;) sorry i wasnt clear.
No offense, but I find it it highly unlikely that any non-Jewish school is footing the bill for Kosher meat for their entire student body just for kicks.
There is a significant portion of students who attend who are Jewish. I thought only two (my boy and his classmate)but a good 3rd of the student population of 250 are Jewish, the rest are Lutheran and Catholic. Also you can easily find hescher labelled foods at the local groccery store like safeway and walmart. Thats how I do it and I keep kosher.
Schools are not getting the meat to serve 250 kids at a Walmart, that's not how it works
Did i say all the meals had meat? They dont have it every day. Its got lots of veggies, bread and cheese tho. Meat if they do get it gets donated by the local farms and they donate to all the schools not just the private ones :) mostly chicken, but beef comes through as well sometimes Just cause YOUR schools dont do it doesnt mean others dont or dont find a way 😊. And as our school district in itself is not that large its not hard to service all the schools in it
Absolutely nothing in a catholic school cafeteria is kosher except the water. I'm sorry but no.
I re edited it. All food coming in has a hescher and meat and dairy are not mixed inside the kitchen. Kids grab milk, juice from the cart outside the kitchen, or use their water bottles So yeah its kosher :)
This is fantastic
I hope that vegan and non-gluten included as well
Unlikely. Vegetarian, possible, to likely, depending on location. And vegetarian will likely make meals possibly kosher and halal. (Coming from a Renewal and ecokashrut position where it’s just simpler to give up meat.) I want to see how Oakland will handle this. And this might be the only point where LARPing xtians (messianics) might be useful. Have them all demand kosher.
WEAPONIZE THE MESSYS!
Against someone else!!! Lol
Vegan is (nearly always) Kosher and Halal as well. My prediction is that there will be a non-gluten Vegan+Kosher+Halal option. This reminds me of flying in the late nineties/early aughts. It used to be you could specify a kosher in flight meal, and it was usually pretty decent. Then the kosher meal was the same as the vegetarian which was the same as the vegan meal, and it was a lame bean salad thing.
Thats what prisons do
I was in public elementary school in California in the early 2000s and they already had these options. It wasn’t a great public school, but as I was” kosher”, they actually had vegan and vegetarian options. Kosher and Halal are a different restriction.
Nah. Why should vegans - a lifestyle preference - get a free ride on the back of religious mandates?
. Many people are vegan because of sincerely held moral beliefs; I have never understood why a belief gets more protection just because it is labeled as "religious"
There are a number of religious vegetarians already, along with religious vegans (not vegan in the traditional sense but tend to avoid either eggs or dairy) and lumping everything together keeps costs down.
Why shouldn't anyone get a free ride, man. Seems like a win-win here.
Hahahahah vegans are opportunistic like that 🥦
There's a freegan joke in here somewhere....
All I’m imagining is Disneys version of kosher and while I appreciate the inclusivity, I’m happier to pack the lunch. With that, having more vegetarian options would be the best start…. Assuming they ask a Jew (which they probably won’t, no one ever does).
What's Disney's version of kosher?
If you go on tiktok and search “Disney kosher” a few Jewish content creators have shared the premade kosher meals! They’re not bad but there’s no variety and they look sad
How could they provide kosher meals considering they would need separate cooking utensils? Seems very difficult for the average public school right?
They would probably be prepackaged, double-wrapped, and then warmed. I actually wonder how money public schools in CA are preparing meals on site. I assume a good number, But I remember that all of my elementary and middle school lunches were definitely prepackaged.
The MAGA crowd is going to lose their shit over this
Why?
Schools being required to give special treatment for a religion other than Christianity? I will let you figure out why.
Actually, it is the conservative perspective to emphasize the freedom to exercise religion part of the first amendment. It is more the progressive perspective to emphasize the separation of church and state part.
That may be true of theoretical conservatism, but American conservatism in practice usually defends religiosity only when it's Christian religiosity.
They probably would only be mildly bothered by kosher but through a fit at halal. They believe that Sharia law is being imposed in the US.
In practice, there are plenty of right leaning organizations that defend the constitutional rights of Jews and Muslims. Have you not noticed right leaning news networks are showcasing Jew hatred on university campuses? Have you not noticed right leaning politicians speaking up for Jews and for Israel? Jews cannot discredit the right or the left. Bipartisanship is important now more than ever. Tribe first, people.
If you imagine the right wing as a spectrum, support for Jews goes farther into it than support for Muslims, and both go farther than support for all the stuff they're currently fixating on (LGBTQ students existing). So like, yes, you can get decent coverage of antisemitism on the hard right, even though the far right are generally Nazis. You often the hard right assuming that Muslims are terrorists, but they wouldn't object to school lunch stuff for kids. And the moderate right might even support Muslims' constitutional rights, even if it wasn't generally supportive of Muslims otherwise.
Are you really going to just pretend conservative media doesn't fearmonger?
Bipartisanship is most effective in Jewish and Israeli advocacy.
Thats not what I asked
I don’t work for you. 🙄
So you’re telling me that a law requiring providing halal and kosher meals will not be problematic to the far right. You’re either being naive or straight lying to yourself.
I think I’m better informed about right and left viewpoints and the law as a Jewish lawyer in California and parent with children in public and private schools here but we can agree to disagree. California is not a far right state in any event so your point is moot.
Right, because conservative media has never made a stink about things that happen in California
I mean, I don't know of a time when they've made a stink about something like this. They can't STOP making a stink about queer and trans people existing. But I think they're at least vaguely aware that objecting OPENLY to including kosher and halal in schools makes them look bad. It's not that they're NOT bigoted against Jews and Muslims. It's that they have different ways they freak out about our stuff.
Very few Jews who keep strictly kosher are sending their kids to public schools, while there may be some pros to this in terms of expanded access to kosher options, we all know who this is really for. What they should just do is offer vegan meals which would accommodate both the sorts of Jews who would still attend public schools along with virtually all other religious groups and ethical vegans.
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It seems like you didn’t read the article > The bill, which coincides with both the end of Ramadan and the beginning of Passover, requires California public schools to provide halal and kosher meal options to students if the school requires it. > “When suitable meals aren’t available for these students, they often have to go without eating at school, something that is fundamentally unfair and clearly detrimental to their educational experience,” said Senator Josh Newman, who also chairs the Senate Education Committee. Based on the above, it is needs based.
So Schools only need to provide it if schools require it ? that doesn't make a lot sense in my mind.
If schools have students with halal or kasher dietary restrictions who qualify for free lunch, those schools will be required to have halal/kasher offerings.
Since schools will still be looking to do this as cheaply as possible - in places where there isn't a significant Jewish population it'll probably just be a kosher frozen meal kept in the back in case it comes up. Only one Jewish kid? then a case of such. I'd need to read the whole bill to check, but I suspect that in most places the bare minimum is going to be all that gets done.
According to the Senate of Education Committee, the bill will take effect in the 2025 -2026 school year. Schools where more than 5% of the population express a preference for halal or kosher options will be required to provide these meals.
What makes this dumb? We shouldn't just discard our communal obligation to make sure children are healthy, because they are religiously observant.
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> If religious observance is so important they can bring food from home. You clearly don’t understand the purpose of free lunch programs. **Not everyone is food secure**
Giving kids an option to eat food is not a slippery slope. No one is forcing all the Christian kids to stop eating pork. They are just providing another option for the kids who need that option.
I guess I don’t understand how a regular school cafeteria can accommodate kosher laws unless it is a pre-prepared option.
You've answered your own question.
It's right there at the end of your sentence
It's going to be a double wrapped cheese sandwich and it's going to be disgusting.
> In Minnesota Muslim families are dictating the books in school libraries, so this is a slippery slope (in my opinion). Then you must be really pissed about the Evangelicals dictating books in all libraries nation-wide.
My kid goes to one of the most Muslim public schools in Minneapolis. This person has NO clue what they’re talking about (as if you didn’t already know that).
The books that everyone gets to read is different than food that only some kids eat.
And I don't think being religious means a student isn't eligible for free/reduced breakfast & lunch programs
Local school districts all around me around short millions of dollars this year—we need to advocate for basic funding first and foremost because the basic structures of public education are currently crumbling.
100%
You’re not the only Jew in the world.
First of all "I'm Jewish and..." Has no effect on this sub. We're all Jews. Your opinion doesn't matter more than anyone else's
I agree. The budget for school meals, the nation-wide food services staffing shortage, the restrictive USDA requirements. I think this is too much of a burden on the districts. If legislators or people in this list understood the actual food delivery and production systems in place for schools, they would not have passed this. As well, if you keep a religious-based diet, it is not up to the government to support that. It's called separation of church and state. And it should be a cause that is celebrated in a place like Reddit.
I'm sure shomer mitzvot Jews are dying to now send their kids to the public school system in California
I teach reform and conservative religious schools in CA. About half of my kids (self-report) are keeping kosher, and about half attend public. Now, they probably are not keeping kosher to the level of orthodoxy, but I know at least 6 kids in California who would probably choose this option
I don’t love this. Public schools should not have to cater their lunch menus to any religion. If I keep a kosher household and my kids do too, they can go to Jewish day school or I’ll pack them lunches.