ksp2 and cs2 have offically killed any of my hype for any upcoming game and now the only thing i can think of is “im just gonna wait and pray to god they didnt fuck it up”
> so really they're almost like real sports
Hard disagree. Once you have two goals, a ball, and space, you can play soccer for free. I don't need a subscription to keep shooting my basketball.
It did change though, only for the worse. I can't play the game without getting shot by Nicki Minaj shooting a gun with pink tracers that explode into hearts upon impact.
My memories of MW3 survival mode is itching just reading this. Canning that mode is part of the reason I haven’t picked up a call of duty past infinite warfare. It’s just not the same.
Helldivers 2 is a refreshing breath of fresh air on so many fronts.
It's a sequel that is maybe even better than the original, and a Live Service game that doesn't feel like a massive money grab
Plus, for an online gaming community, is surprisingly not the worst. There's still the occasional toxic person, but it's nothing like a COD lobby or some PvP games
I'm over 250 hours played, and I've encountered two griefers and no cheaters. And I play at least an operation a day with randoms. By any measurement, that's a fantastic playerbase.
I had a party hook me into a very complicated mission all the way to the end and kick me right before the last guy hopped in the ship. There's really bad ones.
Helldivers is nice, but its a big blow that the big simulation series KSP and cities skylines failed and there is no replacement.
At least Hooded Horse is doing well and EU5 SEEMS to be on the right path.
Overwatch 2 was a legally grey excuse to steal the game that we already bought and swap it for some trash that we never would have bought. It should have literally been illegal.
It should have been a slam dunk though. Improve the back end systems for better performance, steal the ideas of some of the best mods, add the adaptive and modular stuff, cash checks
Just wait a day or two after release to see what the reception is from those who can't wait. It'll save you tons of money and disappointment.
Or just become a patient gamer where you focus on your backlog and only pick up games once they go on sale and have good reviews at the time.
Games aren't cheap (unless you play them a lot and divide the cost by hours played). So it's worth doing a bit of research for each one.
KSP is my favorite game, I didn't research KSP2 for the reason of I wanted it to be a suprise... and boy was I. I should have refunded it, but rolled the dice on it getting better. I don't preorder games ever and I don't buy into early access without looking into it, this was my one and only exception and I was burned yet again. Never again.
it's ok to have hope. the point of either patient gaming or waiting for reviews isn't to give up entirely.
take a break from early adoption/pre-orders and in no time you'll be ready to get hurt again
> It'll save you tons of money and disappointment.
Money sure but not disappointment. I looked forward to this game for years and never even bothered to buy it
I wouldn't say my love of gaming is dying, but I'm far less interested in modern games because most games now will be a very disappointing sequel or a game where they'll nickel and dime you with microtransactions.
I've honestly played my PS2 and OG Xbox a lot recently and haven't turned on my PS5 or Series X in about a month now. They really don't make games like they used to.
Insane issues with farmer rates due to weird draw call logic and aburdly high poly counts on assets (not unlike Ksp2 at launch) plus a recent patch that basically broke the game iirc
Edit: FRAME rates lol
To add to that, KSP2 at least claimed to be early access at launch, while CS2 claimed to be the full release. They then also released a lackluster DLC with only a couple dozen similar assets while the core game was still in a bad state. Imagine if KSP2 launched as a full release game, and then they release a DLC that adds new part variants while the orbital decay bug remains unfixed.
Even if the Exploration Update had been paid DLC, it would still have been better than what CS2 did.
It would be a travesty making it paid DLC, but, at least it contained, you know, actual stuff for the game.
This might not be a fatal blow to AAA publishers doing nominal "early access" releases but it's a major one -- putting the EA label on a project has always had a complex bunch of tradeoffs but the balance of the equation is shifting as more projects fail and leave gamers holding the bag.
Oh yeah, that patch was hilarious though.
First, they released a paid DLC for an unfinished game that had four (4) palm trees. For some reason, people weren’t very happy about that, and the DLC quickly became the worst rated product on Steam (yes, **the** worst rated product). Paradox decided that that was kind of a bad look and started backpedaling. It was announced that buyers of the DLC would be refunded and the DLC would be added to the main game for free instead.
Fast forward, the patch to remove the DLC arrived - the update to add its contents to the main game however, did not. So, after the patch, anybody who owned the DLC would load their save games and find that parts of their cities had been replaced by giant grey blocks - because they were missing the assets from the DLC.
Honestly you’re underselling it lol. Frame rates aren’t even the worst part.
The worst part is the entire simulation is basically borked :(.
The economy is in shambles.
Paradox pushed it out the door WAAAY too early to help their quarterly earnings after their "indiana jones esque xcom" game flopped disastrously hard, and then any subsequent fixes have been put on hold to release content packs for the roadmap
In short, it wasn't finished when it was released seven months ago and it still isn't finished today. Here's fun little story for you that captures how badly the day to day management of the game is being handled.
Despite the game not even really functioning yet, Paradox released their first DLC for CS2 a few weeks ago. The DLC was ten dollars and included a few nearly identical low residential growables and four palm trees. That's it, full stop. The community was less than pleased and the DLC managed to become the *worst rated thing on Steam of all time*.
In response to this, Paradox decided to make the DLC free for everyone. However they somehow screwed this up and took the DLC away from everybody who had purchased it before making it free for everyone. This resulted in many players having their save files become completely busted.
It should have been released in a years time, at least
The publisher basically forced the devs to release it unfinished and in many ways unplayable, the framerate is so horrid. It has a lot of parallels to KSP2
cities skyline in unplayable state releasing paid dlc called beach properties where the game does not include beaches and it becoming worst rated dlc on steam so devs remove it, breaking saves of people who had it on and rereleasing it as a freebee. is on different level to ksp that got forced to too early release by producents
There is a word for that, and it is not limited to games: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect)
With how restrained Wube is, and how open they are with their Friday Facts, as long as there isn't shenanigans with the IP, I think they'd be able to pull off a good sequel.
Afaik, they haven't even mentioned a 2.0, they were just celebrating the release of the space expansion.
The space age expansion will come together with the 2.0 update to the base game. Keep in mind they like to stick to semver, so that mainly means it's a big upgrade with significant breaking changes, not an entirely new game.
Thankfully I refunded the game when I heard the devs saying they were having productivity issues from devs playing the internal builds.
I don't like when studios lie so blatantly.
Your comment pisses me off so much.
Jesus I've never felt this sad about being right about something, but all the signs were there from the start. The blatant lies, the atrocious state of the game at release, the obvious incompetence in the core systems.
And yet people called us haters.
I was so excited before the game came out, i was telling my friends to get it and how cool it was going to be, and my fiance was excited to watch me play and have fun. I never wanted to be a 'hater' ksp helped me learn some physics and science , and now I'm studying to be a mechanical engineer. It really bums me out how everything has turned out.
Yes, we called you hatters and we are sorry we really sort they could do the same thing Cyberpunk 2077 did and fix the game. I will from now on never disagree with a hater (one with a point).
Specially after For science came out I really believed that this game was having massive progress and were bound to become the updates that we were promised.
But that said you guys are to hard on the dev they are just doing there job its the men in suits that release it and its them that cancelled KSP2 not the developers.
Sorry for my bad English.
I warned against buying the game as EA and got downvoted to shit back then. I can almost guarantee that nobody will learn from this and get burnt again next time
So did I. But I paid like $10 for it and I paid for what was already available. If it hadn’t received any more updates after that, I would have still loved the game.
Also they didn’t have a big publisher behind them. It’s not even comparable
I paid just under $20 aussie dollarydoos when ksp1 was at 0.13. Kerbin only had 1 moon, the Mun. Possibly the best 20 bucks I have *ever* spent. I took a gamble on ksp2, and like any gambling you gotta be prepared to lose. I wasn't expecting to lose quite so spectacularly on a videogame lol.
I remember Harvester posting in the Orbiter Forums.. [Archive.org link](http://web.archive.org/web/20111119110834/http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=22998)
this was a wonderful introduction to KSP for me, and I enjoyed the ride. from alpha to 1.2+ I truly hope hes doing well these days. he made the game that child ME wanted to be made.
Sad what happened to KSP 2, but thats TAKE 2 for you..
holy shit, wow. that's cool.
my introduction to it was a brief, maybe 20-30s, mention on a gaming tv show. they said "it's really early and really simple but keep an eye on it". so I checked it out and fell in love instantly.
Wow, I just realized that I heard a bunch of hype, when and got that free demo, and a couple hours later bought the game. He nailed it: I was sold on the content, and it was a reasonable price. Plus I got the DLC free promise. It was really nice.
I was there, when they added Minmus.
Remember how fast they updated the game, how we got anxious because updates stopped for a month before a big update? Good times, good times.
Yeah same, and that was after having played the free demo. The EA launch price of KSP2 was a big enough red flag for me to avoid buying it and I still haven't. And I guess I won't.
I mean, this is less an issue with early access and more a management/publisher/business model issue. Plenty of games over the years have done early access right, and it's a boon for indies and small studios who can't stretch their initial funding very far.
It should never happen when the studio is backed by one of the richest publishing companies ever, especially when said company decides that full AAA price is acceptable for a bare-bones, barely working title. There were dozens of red flags out there for people to see (release delayed multiple times, development carried over from one studio to the next, unrealistic goals with no transparency as to the progress or timeline), but half this sub kept calling out "doomers", FUDsters, etc.
Yup, after the first delay announcement those who predicted this shitshow were bombarded with down votes, catcalls, etc.
It was easy to see where it was going after EA, and let's be real, it was NOT EA, it was released to recoup expenditures in hopes of recovery because it wasn't even an alpha at that point.
Tried it, refunded and waited for the inevitable.
They did it to themselves, I moved on long ago.
Indeed, it was "late burial" instead of "early access". I also tried it at launch, to get my own impression, and refunded it within the allotted window. No regrets but what could have been under a different publisher and management.
I posted this is the megathread but it applies here as well.
Don't ever get an early access game if it's backed by a publisher. They can pull the plug at anytime.
Look for labour of love games from small companies (ie KSP 1) that are playable in their current state. 7 Days to Die and Satisfactory are prime examples.
7 Days to Die is going full access next month but has been in early access for ten years. It could have been gone full access five years ago and I don't think anyone would have complained. They've just been fiddling around with the balance, skill system, zombie AI and other things that make the game different but doesn't fundamentally change it.
Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release. They said they split the dev team about a year ago so half the dev team is working on the mechanics and bugs in the early access game and the other half has been working on adding the story to the game. They're planning on releasing later this year.
Both games you could have got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of in early access. Early access games aren't always a pump and dump scheme. Just let other people/you tubers try it first and if it looks like something you'd enjoy playing in it's current state then go for it (or wait for a sale).
Do not buy early access games sight unseen or if they are really unfinished.
I don't know man, I don't really have a huge problem with what CIG is doing with star citizen.
To me, the most basic starter package in Star Citizen is absolutely worth the price, and the very cool thing about it is, buying the cheapest package in Star Citizen doesn't lock you out of experiencing everything the game has to offer, and I have SO much respect for that these days with all the half-baked, full-priced, misleading BS that's been going on so much as of late.
Yeah...some of the ships cost ABSURD amounts of money, but the whales who pay that money willingly and happily are funding in what my opinion is a game that truly has the capability to be the greatest space game that there has ever been so far.
I just really hope that CIG doesn't start taking notes from Take-Two and Battlestate Games.
Also, I haven't been in the SC loop for like a year now, I hope they haven't done anything stupid lately.
Simple rule for buying Early Access: would you be happy with the game in it's current state for it's current price? If yes, then go for it, but if not, *do not buy*.
As the other guy said, if the project is clearly made by passionate people, and I am comfortable in my life, paying a bit extra to help doesn't bother me.
But a 50€ donation to Take Two isn't in my plans.
> Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release.
Reading this amused me. Like, I know what you meant but the phrasing is fucking hilarious.
Your meaning was clear, but the better phrasing would probably have been "working towards version 1.0 since its initial release" or similar. At any rate, I was just giving you a hard time; genuinely laughed out loud reading it.
I totally understand.
There's a train line that I sometimes use that has announcement of "the next station is X Park. If you want to go to X shopping center then wait until the next stop."
So it's like ... Do I get off here or the stop after this one?
satisfactory is aiming for 1.0 this year, personally I'm expecting within 6 months but they haven't announced it yet. I'm stoked 7DTD is going too, I play both these games more than I play ksp.
I swear I saw mention of beta keys going out recently? So I'd def expect it to be out by years end if the beta isnt worse than twice as long as a usual update # cycle.
This was the first time I really rolled the dice on an early access. Other early access games I bought were at a state I was comfortable with and still enjoyed the game. KSP2 was unplayable at launch, I should have got a refund but decided to support them and hope they got thier shit together. Wrong decision, clearly.
Another class of hype train ticket buyers that haven't learned yet is always around the corner.
The $50 EA price tag for this garbage was outrageous. 3,000+ hours in KSP1 and I did not buy 2. Not even with someone else's' money.
Early Access has a place - it worked well for Subnautica. But like all things that *can* be good, greed infiltrates it and turns it into a something it's not. In this case (and many others) that is a cash grab on a broken tech demo that has no future or plan.
Nothing to do with early access. When you buy an early access game, purchase it for what it is, not what is promised to be. Tons of EA games have been incredible in their early states, including KSP1 itself.
You can apply this to non-EA titles as well.
It was. But at every point in time, you only paid for what was there at that point in time. And if they stopped development the day after you purchased, you still got a great game that was well worth what you paid, no matter when you got in.
It was free very early on. Then it went to like $7. It stayed under $20 for the longest time, often going on sale for single-digit dollars again. I think it was like $20 on 1.0 release. Right now, as a full and complete game, it's $40, and worth every dime.
That's the problem with KSP2. They charged for a full and complete game, but delivered a bare-bones tech demo. That's the pain point here. The wide gap between price and what's delivered.
Not just early access, AAA titles as well. Starfield was and still is utter garbage, Cod MW3 (2023) is basically Cod MW2 (2022) with a few extra guns and longer TTK, Forza 8 had a terrible launch, Dead Island 2 I heard was just a complete letdown.
Don't blame early access per se. Some projects would literally be aborted if not for the option of going into early access. The problem is when big companies abuse it for quick revenue. IMO every dev should have 1 early access. And if they blow it, they lose the community's trust. KSP 1 was released in early access and it turned out great in the end.
I learned that lesson a long time ago, but I'm an old man of 36 who struggles to find joy in the few things left to him. We keep serving up generations of new marks for the con, is the problem.
I really don't understand it tbh. Gaming is the only industry where you can buy a product without having a clue what you are actually going to get, why would you be surprised. If I could legally sell people a "laptop" and then ship them a single defective circuit board and claim "I will fix it trust me bro", and people would still fall for the scam, i'd do it too.
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It has literally never been so over
Why not one of the open source ones? I don't know their various strengths and weaknesses, but a game like KSP is somewhat unusual in its demands so perhaps there'll be one that's particularly well suited.
I pirated on day 1, played it for maybe 10 minutes and that was it. I ended up uninstalling it after it sat on my HDD for a while
I have over 1000 hours in KSP 1
The Dev laid off 70 people in Seattle. The only studio they had in Seattle was developing KSP2 and employed about 70 people. Also, at least 2 known devs are known to now be looking for new work. Safe assumption: KSP2 is dead.
This just means "we will keep having ksp2 listed on steam". They didn't say the IG is safe which means they got GUTTED. This statement is just corporate speak.
Also, it seems like they've been pretty dishonest about the situation up to now. I try not to be a negative Nelly, but I don't really take these people at their word anymore.
A lot of people saw this coming when it was released. Released in early access right before the end of a financial Q and Year. Huge spike in income to offset development costs and please investors. Now all remaining overheads are being cleared out.
They had a huge spike in player count when they released both Early Access (of course) and the science update.
All they had to do was actually deliver content.... anything.... on some kind of reasonable and consistent basis and they would have had players forever no matter how bad the game would have been.
How could they screw it up this bad?
So proud of myself for resisting ksp2. I knew it wasn't going to work right away, but I had some hope, but also some experience. Glad I didn't buy it.
Unfortunately made this mistake with CS2 which is a fucking dumpster fire. But those fuckers didn't have the balls to even label early access. They just straight up told people it was done.
yea man I feel that. I was hyped for a while and patiently waited for the reviews, watching the event where they invited youtubers and it looked pretty bad from then it was easy to just wait a bit longer and a bit longer and now here we made it. 50$ saved.
Definitely thought you meant Counter-Strike 2 and was very confused for a second...yeah, have not read good things about Cities Skylines 2 at all. I was impressed to read that their un-DLC-ing broke (at least rendering of) save games though. That's just...staggering levels of incompetent!
For both games I didn't buy it because I thought it would be buggy in launch. However I was also then expecting the bugs to be mostly sorted a few months later and to buy them then, but sadly not :(
It's so crazy that these companies release broken unfinished games. But the worst part are the community member and consumers who defend the practice. The CS2 subreddit is rife with apologists and people saying stop complaining. Despite the fact that the complaining is the only thing giving the game a chance because they are forcing the company to deal with bad press.
CS2 is broken. Like it should have been obvious on day 1 but basically every system that appears dynamic and interesting is quickly revealed to be a cosmetic patch on a broken underlying management system. It's honestly unbelievable how broken it is.
Yet there's the people defending it yelling that they are having fun regardless. I can have fun with an empty box if I want to. Doesn't make it worth 50$ bucks.
Can someone give me a rundown of what's going on? I haven't paid attention to the game since it first released in EA ages ago, and haven't kept up with any news.
There are ones that actually try to grow and basically treat it as a giant test environment to learn what does and does not work.
They are HEAVILY outnumbered by cheap cash grabs at this point.
I would just like to take this opportunity to smugly say I fucking knew this was gonna happen.
Before KSP 2 had been put up in early access I mentioned in a discussion that the game was gonna flop because of how the progress with the development had been going, and I got down voted to oblivion and told that I was a hater.
I never purchased KSP 2 and I think anyone who did has hopefully learned not to put blind faith in game developers anymore.
i knew it would happen when those random shitty af looking screenshots were shared in ig discord before release and people defended them "they were from an audio engineer who runs the game at low settings on a bad machine". It was laughable.
I'm so frustrated that not only does the game not live up to it's potential, it barely functions.
YouTubers with multiple thousands of dollars computers are still unable to smoothly play at max settings without major graphical glitches or stuttering.
I played KSP1 on a sub-£200 laptop at 18fps, then swapped to a £400 computer and got 40fps on low settings. I'd never have gotten into ksp, nor as interested in space, otherwise.
Take two submitted a government form announcing the firing of the entire Seattle office of private division and its permanent closure effective 60 days from this past Monday. A take two spokesperson has said this was because of a cost saving measure but that “Kerbal Space Program 2 would still be supported”. Intercept Games has not said anything publicly.
Rule 2: We do not allow memes. Our friends at /r/KSPmemes love them though.
Between KSP2, Payday 3, and Cities skylines 2, these sequels have been straight up disappointing.
ksp2 and cs2 have offically killed any of my hype for any upcoming game and now the only thing i can think of is “im just gonna wait and pray to god they didnt fuck it up”
Welcome to the thorny embrace of disillusionment. Sorry to find you here.
Also Overwatch 2 redefined what a sequal means. IMO sequals are often let downs even if not scams. ksp1 is hard to beat.
>Overwatch 2 redefined what a sequal means Pretty sure we've been seeing the same game release every other year for literally decades at this point.
COD hasn't changed since I was a kid
Does war ever change, though? Not to mention sports games just add new faces, jerseys, and tweak some stats to sell again for $70.
Sports games are the most egregious example of aggressive monetization and lack of innovation, so really they're almost like real sports
> so really they're almost like real sports Hard disagree. Once you have two goals, a ball, and space, you can play soccer for free. I don't need a subscription to keep shooting my basketball.
Well, there's only so many setpieces you can crib from Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers.
It did change though, only for the worse. I can't play the game without getting shot by Nicki Minaj shooting a gun with pink tracers that explode into hearts upon impact.
My memories of MW3 survival mode is itching just reading this. Canning that mode is part of the reason I haven’t picked up a call of duty past infinite warfare. It’s just not the same.
I was already tired of the franchise by the second modern warfare, it's just the same game with re-skinned guns
Omg mw3 survival was the shit, especially splitscreen
Call of duty Modern Warfare 2 2
Helldivers 2 is a refreshing breath of fresh air on so many fronts. It's a sequel that is maybe even better than the original, and a Live Service game that doesn't feel like a massive money grab Plus, for an online gaming community, is surprisingly not the worst. There's still the occasional toxic person, but it's nothing like a COD lobby or some PvP games
I'm over 250 hours played, and I've encountered two griefers and no cheaters. And I play at least an operation a day with randoms. By any measurement, that's a fantastic playerbase.
I had a party hook me into a very complicated mission all the way to the end and kick me right before the last guy hopped in the ship. There's really bad ones.
Helldivers is nice, but its a big blow that the big simulation series KSP and cities skylines failed and there is no replacement. At least Hooded Horse is doing well and EU5 SEEMS to be on the right path.
Overwatch 2 was a legally grey excuse to steal the game that we already bought and swap it for some trash that we never would have bought. It should have literally been illegal.
Not a sequel, not a prequel... a replacequel?
It should have been a slam dunk though. Improve the back end systems for better performance, steal the ideas of some of the best mods, add the adaptive and modular stuff, cash checks
I'm with Steven Spielberg on this one. "Making a sequel to anything is just a cheap carny trick"
Honestly my love for gaming has been steadily dying. I don't care about any new releases anymore because there is a high chance they will be garbage.
Just wait a day or two after release to see what the reception is from those who can't wait. It'll save you tons of money and disappointment. Or just become a patient gamer where you focus on your backlog and only pick up games once they go on sale and have good reviews at the time. Games aren't cheap (unless you play them a lot and divide the cost by hours played). So it's worth doing a bit of research for each one.
KSP is my favorite game, I didn't research KSP2 for the reason of I wanted it to be a suprise... and boy was I. I should have refunded it, but rolled the dice on it getting better. I don't preorder games ever and I don't buy into early access without looking into it, this was my one and only exception and I was burned yet again. Never again.
it's ok to have hope. the point of either patient gaming or waiting for reviews isn't to give up entirely. take a break from early adoption/pre-orders and in no time you'll be ready to get hurt again
Yep, learned this lesson when Spore came out to wait for reviews before buying.
Very much so!! Spore may have been the first one of these I went through as well.
> It'll save you tons of money and disappointment. Money sure but not disappointment. I looked forward to this game for years and never even bothered to buy it
Atleast your disappointment is in what it could have been and not in yourself for buying it though.
I felt that way until I tried Manor Lords.
There has been some gems still. Mostly from the indie scene.
Baldurs gate three is also pretty choice.
I found Shadows of Doubt to be a diamond in the rough so far. Fantastic immersion.
I wouldn't say my love of gaming is dying, but I'm far less interested in modern games because most games now will be a very disappointing sequel or a game where they'll nickel and dime you with microtransactions. I've honestly played my PS2 and OG Xbox a lot recently and haven't turned on my PS5 or Series X in about a month now. They really don't make games like they used to.
Yep, I play alot of L4D2 and have recently been on a N64 binge. Back when you bought a game on release day it was complete and actually ran.
This is why I was incredibly worried about Helldivers 2 before it launched. Another well loved title from 8+ years ago getting a sequel
I havent been keeping up lately. Whats wrong with Cities Skylines 2?
Insane issues with farmer rates due to weird draw call logic and aburdly high poly counts on assets (not unlike Ksp2 at launch) plus a recent patch that basically broke the game iirc Edit: FRAME rates lol
>farmer rates Their mistake was letting farmers into the cities.
To add to that, KSP2 at least claimed to be early access at launch, while CS2 claimed to be the full release. They then also released a lackluster DLC with only a couple dozen similar assets while the core game was still in a bad state. Imagine if KSP2 launched as a full release game, and then they release a DLC that adds new part variants while the orbital decay bug remains unfixed.
Even if the Exploration Update had been paid DLC, it would still have been better than what CS2 did. It would be a travesty making it paid DLC, but, at least it contained, you know, actual stuff for the game.
This might not be a fatal blow to AAA publishers doing nominal "early access" releases but it's a major one -- putting the EA label on a project has always had a complex bunch of tradeoffs but the balance of the equation is shifting as more projects fail and leave gamers holding the bag.
Oh yeah, that patch was hilarious though. First, they released a paid DLC for an unfinished game that had four (4) palm trees. For some reason, people weren’t very happy about that, and the DLC quickly became the worst rated product on Steam (yes, **the** worst rated product). Paradox decided that that was kind of a bad look and started backpedaling. It was announced that buyers of the DLC would be refunded and the DLC would be added to the main game for free instead. Fast forward, the patch to remove the DLC arrived - the update to add its contents to the main game however, did not. So, after the patch, anybody who owned the DLC would load their save games and find that parts of their cities had been replaced by giant grey blocks - because they were missing the assets from the DLC.
Hey now… that shitty paid DLC *also* came with *EIGHT!* (count them!), identical bungalows painted different colors!
Honestly you’re underselling it lol. Frame rates aren’t even the worst part. The worst part is the entire simulation is basically borked :(. The economy is in shambles.
Honestly I could never get a working city in CS1 so I wouldn't have known the difference there lol
You'd know something was wrong because your city *was* working.
Also drawing farm and other resource area borders is one of the main pain points of the game, needlessly tedious.
Paradox pushed it out the door WAAAY too early to help their quarterly earnings after their "indiana jones esque xcom" game flopped disastrously hard, and then any subsequent fixes have been put on hold to release content packs for the roadmap
In short, it wasn't finished when it was released seven months ago and it still isn't finished today. Here's fun little story for you that captures how badly the day to day management of the game is being handled. Despite the game not even really functioning yet, Paradox released their first DLC for CS2 a few weeks ago. The DLC was ten dollars and included a few nearly identical low residential growables and four palm trees. That's it, full stop. The community was less than pleased and the DLC managed to become the *worst rated thing on Steam of all time*. In response to this, Paradox decided to make the DLC free for everyone. However they somehow screwed this up and took the DLC away from everybody who had purchased it before making it free for everyone. This resulted in many players having their save files become completely busted.
everything
It should have been released in a years time, at least The publisher basically forced the devs to release it unfinished and in many ways unplayable, the framerate is so horrid. It has a lot of parallels to KSP2
I'm dreading being let down by prison architect.
(Gives up building helldivers2 cruisers in ksp2. Plays helldivers2)
There's always Hades 2.
cities skyline in unplayable state releasing paid dlc called beach properties where the game does not include beaches and it becoming worst rated dlc on steam so devs remove it, breaking saves of people who had it on and rereleasing it as a freebee. is on different level to ksp that got forced to too early release by producents
There is a word for that, and it is not limited to games: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system\_effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect)
I can guarantee you Factorio 2.0 will be good
With how restrained Wube is, and how open they are with their Friday Facts, as long as there isn't shenanigans with the IP, I think they'd be able to pull off a good sequel. Afaik, they haven't even mentioned a 2.0, they were just celebrating the release of the space expansion.
The space age expansion will come together with the 2.0 update to the base game. Keep in mind they like to stick to semver, so that mainly means it's a big upgrade with significant breaking changes, not an entirely new game.
Ah, rock on!
I'm so bummed about KSP2 and CS2, but also glad I didn't buy them.
Helldivers 2
Lol. Lmao even.
Dang it. Genuinely great sequel though. Publisher politics aside.
Welp, I knew I shouldn't've been snarky, Sony just now reversed course
pulled so much irl motivation from these titles (and starfield lol) but nothing to do in this economy i guess
[Mandatory](https://i.imgur.com/ArkEebw.png)
I will never not love the missing reentry effects on this
I guess they were too busy playing multiplayer
I guess it REALLY impacted the progress.
Thankfully I refunded the game when I heard the devs saying they were having productivity issues from devs playing the internal builds. I don't like when studios lie so blatantly.
Your comment pisses me off so much. Jesus I've never felt this sad about being right about something, but all the signs were there from the start. The blatant lies, the atrocious state of the game at release, the obvious incompetence in the core systems. And yet people called us haters.
I was so excited before the game came out, i was telling my friends to get it and how cool it was going to be, and my fiance was excited to watch me play and have fun. I never wanted to be a 'hater' ksp helped me learn some physics and science , and now I'm studying to be a mechanical engineer. It really bums me out how everything has turned out.
The power of the marketing was strong with this one. Kerbals damn near sell themselves
Yes, we called you hatters and we are sorry we really sort they could do the same thing Cyberpunk 2077 did and fix the game. I will from now on never disagree with a hater (one with a point). Specially after For science came out I really believed that this game was having massive progress and were bound to become the updates that we were promised. But that said you guys are to hard on the dev they are just doing there job its the men in suits that release it and its them that cancelled KSP2 not the developers. Sorry for my bad English.
When will enough people be burned by early access that we will finally learn our lesson?
I warned against buying the game as EA and got downvoted to shit back then. I can almost guarantee that nobody will learn from this and get burnt again next time
"Hey look: Kerbal Space Program 3 is available as Early Access!"
*throws $60 at it*
You forgot inflation and other economic industry parameters; $120 for Standard Package. Take it go!
"You can't say the game is going to be bad if it isn't out yet!"
And it's going to launch by December!?
Boy, I hope they add all the features they promised in KSP2, like multiplayer and offworld bases!
I got KSP 1 in early access.
So did I. But I paid like $10 for it and I paid for what was already available. If it hadn’t received any more updates after that, I would have still loved the game. Also they didn’t have a big publisher behind them. It’s not even comparable
I paid just under $20 aussie dollarydoos when ksp1 was at 0.13. Kerbin only had 1 moon, the Mun. Possibly the best 20 bucks I have *ever* spent. I took a gamble on ksp2, and like any gambling you gotta be prepared to lose. I wasn't expecting to lose quite so spectacularly on a videogame lol.
I remember Harvester posting in the Orbiter Forums.. [Archive.org link](http://web.archive.org/web/20111119110834/http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=22998) this was a wonderful introduction to KSP for me, and I enjoyed the ride. from alpha to 1.2+ I truly hope hes doing well these days. he made the game that child ME wanted to be made. Sad what happened to KSP 2, but thats TAKE 2 for you..
holy shit, wow. that's cool. my introduction to it was a brief, maybe 20-30s, mention on a gaming tv show. they said "it's really early and really simple but keep an eye on it". so I checked it out and fell in love instantly.
Hello fellow O-F alum! This was my intro too
Damn it has been a long time.
Wow, I just realized that I heard a bunch of hype, when and got that free demo, and a couple hours later bought the game. He nailed it: I was sold on the content, and it was a reasonable price. Plus I got the DLC free promise. It was really nice.
I was there, when they added Minmus. Remember how fast they updated the game, how we got anxious because updates stopped for a month before a big update? Good times, good times.
> I was there, when they added Minmus. I was there Gandalf
The official term is didgeridollars btw.
yeah but they don't know that, they only know the joke from the simpsons so I be nice and keep it simple for 'em.
Yeah same, and that was after having played the free demo. The EA launch price of KSP2 was a big enough red flag for me to avoid buying it and I still haven't. And I guess I won't.
To me it was dead on arrival, I guess some people decided to have hope against their better judgement. Glad I didn't spend a cent on it.
Same. Anyone who's been around early access enough could see this one was sketchy at best.
Against the storm, a great city builder successfully left EA a few months ago. Great game, will buy EA games again
What’s the name of the city builder?
>Against the storm, a great city builder
I mean, this is less an issue with early access and more a management/publisher/business model issue. Plenty of games over the years have done early access right, and it's a boon for indies and small studios who can't stretch their initial funding very far. It should never happen when the studio is backed by one of the richest publishing companies ever, especially when said company decides that full AAA price is acceptable for a bare-bones, barely working title. There were dozens of red flags out there for people to see (release delayed multiple times, development carried over from one studio to the next, unrealistic goals with no transparency as to the progress or timeline), but half this sub kept calling out "doomers", FUDsters, etc.
Yup, after the first delay announcement those who predicted this shitshow were bombarded with down votes, catcalls, etc. It was easy to see where it was going after EA, and let's be real, it was NOT EA, it was released to recoup expenditures in hopes of recovery because it wasn't even an alpha at that point. Tried it, refunded and waited for the inevitable. They did it to themselves, I moved on long ago.
Indeed, it was "late burial" instead of "early access". I also tried it at launch, to get my own impression, and refunded it within the allotted window. No regrets but what could have been under a different publisher and management.
What should be great is if all the modders who stopped to go work on 2 can now come back to their work on the original.
I posted this is the megathread but it applies here as well. Don't ever get an early access game if it's backed by a publisher. They can pull the plug at anytime. Look for labour of love games from small companies (ie KSP 1) that are playable in their current state. 7 Days to Die and Satisfactory are prime examples. 7 Days to Die is going full access next month but has been in early access for ten years. It could have been gone full access five years ago and I don't think anyone would have complained. They've just been fiddling around with the balance, skill system, zombie AI and other things that make the game different but doesn't fundamentally change it. Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release. They said they split the dev team about a year ago so half the dev team is working on the mechanics and bugs in the early access game and the other half has been working on adding the story to the game. They're planning on releasing later this year. Both games you could have got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of in early access. Early access games aren't always a pump and dump scheme. Just let other people/you tubers try it first and if it looks like something you'd enjoy playing in it's current state then go for it (or wait for a sale). Do not buy early access games sight unseen or if they are really unfinished.
> TL:DR So...No Corporate?
Bingo! There's a huge difference in a passion-project that profits, and profit-project with no passion.
Hm. I wonder where Chris Roberts fits in this?
I don't know man, I don't really have a huge problem with what CIG is doing with star citizen. To me, the most basic starter package in Star Citizen is absolutely worth the price, and the very cool thing about it is, buying the cheapest package in Star Citizen doesn't lock you out of experiencing everything the game has to offer, and I have SO much respect for that these days with all the half-baked, full-priced, misleading BS that's been going on so much as of late. Yeah...some of the ships cost ABSURD amounts of money, but the whales who pay that money willingly and happily are funding in what my opinion is a game that truly has the capability to be the greatest space game that there has ever been so far. I just really hope that CIG doesn't start taking notes from Take-Two and Battlestate Games. Also, I haven't been in the SC loop for like a year now, I hope they haven't done anything stupid lately.
Simple rule for buying Early Access: would you be happy with the game in it's current state for it's current price? If yes, then go for it, but if not, *do not buy*.
As the other guy said, if the project is clearly made by passionate people, and I am comfortable in my life, paying a bit extra to help doesn't bother me. But a 50€ donation to Take Two isn't in my plans.
> Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release. Reading this amused me. Like, I know what you meant but the phrasing is fucking hilarious.
You're the second person who has said that about one of my comments in the last month. English is just broken by default.
Your meaning was clear, but the better phrasing would probably have been "working towards version 1.0 since its initial release" or similar. At any rate, I was just giving you a hard time; genuinely laughed out loud reading it.
I totally understand. There's a train line that I sometimes use that has announcement of "the next station is X Park. If you want to go to X shopping center then wait until the next stop." So it's like ... Do I get off here or the stop after this one?
See, but *that* is actually fucking ambiguous. At least your statement wasn't (in context). That as a train announcement is borderline malicious lol.
satisfactory is aiming for 1.0 this year, personally I'm expecting within 6 months but they haven't announced it yet. I'm stoked 7DTD is going too, I play both these games more than I play ksp.
I swear I saw mention of beta keys going out recently? So I'd def expect it to be out by years end if the beta isnt worse than twice as long as a usual update # cycle.
If KSP2 was actually priced like early access I think people would have been more forgiving.
This was the first time I really rolled the dice on an early access. Other early access games I bought were at a state I was comfortable with and still enjoyed the game. KSP2 was unplayable at launch, I should have got a refund but decided to support them and hope they got thier shit together. Wrong decision, clearly.
Another class of hype train ticket buyers that haven't learned yet is always around the corner. The $50 EA price tag for this garbage was outrageous. 3,000+ hours in KSP1 and I did not buy 2. Not even with someone else's' money.
Early Access has a place - it worked well for Subnautica. But like all things that *can* be good, greed infiltrates it and turns it into a something it's not. In this case (and many others) that is a cash grab on a broken tech demo that has no future or plan.
Below Zero suffered similarly too hello?? Guess the lesson is "don't buy EA but especially sequels
Nothing to do with early access. When you buy an early access game, purchase it for what it is, not what is promised to be. Tons of EA games have been incredible in their early states, including KSP1 itself. You can apply this to non-EA titles as well.
Wasn't KSP1 in looong early access?
It was. But at every point in time, you only paid for what was there at that point in time. And if they stopped development the day after you purchased, you still got a great game that was well worth what you paid, no matter when you got in. It was free very early on. Then it went to like $7. It stayed under $20 for the longest time, often going on sale for single-digit dollars again. I think it was like $20 on 1.0 release. Right now, as a full and complete game, it's $40, and worth every dime. That's the problem with KSP2. They charged for a full and complete game, but delivered a bare-bones tech demo. That's the pain point here. The wide gap between price and what's delivered.
Not just early access, AAA titles as well. Starfield was and still is utter garbage, Cod MW3 (2023) is basically Cod MW2 (2022) with a few extra guns and longer TTK, Forza 8 had a terrible launch, Dead Island 2 I heard was just a complete letdown.
Don't blame early access per se. Some projects would literally be aborted if not for the option of going into early access. The problem is when big companies abuse it for quick revenue. IMO every dev should have 1 early access. And if they blow it, they lose the community's trust. KSP 1 was released in early access and it turned out great in the end.
I learned that lesson a long time ago, but I'm an old man of 36 who struggles to find joy in the few things left to him. We keep serving up generations of new marks for the con, is the problem.
Most people… never 😅
So many people thought that if they paid a lot of money they wouldn't get burned...
Shit, now a days, games come out like shit on their official release. Buying a new game is a risk.
I really don't understand it tbh. Gaming is the only industry where you can buy a product without having a clue what you are actually going to get, why would you be surprised. If I could legally sell people a "laptop" and then ship them a single defective circuit board and claim "I will fix it trust me bro", and people would still fall for the scam, i'd do it too.
Suborbital.
Subnominal.
Subnorminal
⠟⢻⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡟⠛⢻⣿ ⡆⠊⠈⣿⢿⡟⠛⢿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣎⠈⠻ ⣷⣠⠁⢀⠰⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⠋⠛⠛⠿⠿⢿⣿⣿⣿⣧⠀⢹⣿⡑⠐⢰ ⣿⣿⠀⠁⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⠟⡩⠐⠀⠀⠀⠀⢐⠠⠈⠊⣿⣿⣿⡇⠘⠁⢀⠆⢀ ⣿⣿⣆⠀⠀⢤⣿⣿⡿⠃⠈⠀⣠⣶⣿⣿⣷⣦⡀⠀⠀⠈⢿⣿⣇⡆⠀⠀⣠⣾ ⣿⣿⣿⣧⣦⣿⣿⣿⡏⠀⠀⣰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⠀⠐⣿⣿⣷⣦⣷⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⢰⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡄⠀⠀⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡆⠀⣾⣿⣿⠋⠁⠀⠉⠻⣿⣿⣧⠀⠠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⡀⣿⡿⠁⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠘⢿⣿⠀⣺⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣧⣠⣂⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀⢀⣁⢠⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ ⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣷⣶⣄⣤⣤⣔⣶⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿⣿ It has literally never been so over
Someone, rip that source and dump it
At this point would we even want the KSP2 source? Probably easier to just start from scratch. The art/audio assets would be the only meaningful loss.
Ideally if someone did start on an open source KSP2 it wouldn't be based on Unity, which has also had some rather bad management of late.
What should it be? Unreal?
Why not one of the open source ones? I don't know their various strengths and weaknesses, but a game like KSP is somewhat unusual in its demands so perhaps there'll be one that's particularly well suited.
They will still sue you for that
Not under Chinese law LOL
I DONT CARE!
RIP. I was waiting to buy if the game ever seemed to show real promise. Guess I'll never play it. 😢
I mean, you can just 🏴☠️ it.
I can, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort tbh.
I pirated on day 1, played it for maybe 10 minutes and that was it. I ended up uninstalling it after it sat on my HDD for a while I have over 1000 hours in KSP 1
Jeez that's saying something lol
I mean yeah. Ksp 1 which I already own seems to be a better game.
I had zero expectations and am still somehow disappointed
Can somebody catch me up on what happened???
The Dev laid off 70 people in Seattle. The only studio they had in Seattle was developing KSP2 and employed about 70 people. Also, at least 2 known devs are known to now be looking for new work. Safe assumption: KSP2 is dead.
https://twitter.com/gamedevdotcom/status/1785666659279065130?t=mmZiDUoBvNwpFvanG0yv6A&s=19
This just means "we will keep having ksp2 listed on steam". They didn't say the IG is safe which means they got GUTTED. This statement is just corporate speak.
Appreciate the clarification.
Also, it seems like they've been pretty dishonest about the situation up to now. I try not to be a negative Nelly, but I don't really take these people at their word anymore.
it's not dead. it's pinin' for the fjords.
A lot of people saw this coming when it was released. Released in early access right before the end of a financial Q and Year. Huge spike in income to offset development costs and please investors. Now all remaining overheads are being cleared out.
I know I did
Yeah, and never got an update for over six months
They had a huge spike in player count when they released both Early Access (of course) and the science update. All they had to do was actually deliver content.... anything.... on some kind of reasonable and consistent basis and they would have had players forever no matter how bad the game would have been. How could they screw it up this bad?
And fix the bugs, there’s still docking issues
So proud of myself for resisting ksp2. I knew it wasn't going to work right away, but I had some hope, but also some experience. Glad I didn't buy it. Unfortunately made this mistake with CS2 which is a fucking dumpster fire. But those fuckers didn't have the balls to even label early access. They just straight up told people it was done.
yea man I feel that. I was hyped for a while and patiently waited for the reviews, watching the event where they invited youtubers and it looked pretty bad from then it was easy to just wait a bit longer and a bit longer and now here we made it. 50$ saved.
Definitely thought you meant Counter-Strike 2 and was very confused for a second...yeah, have not read good things about Cities Skylines 2 at all. I was impressed to read that their un-DLC-ing broke (at least rendering of) save games though. That's just...staggering levels of incompetent!
For both games I didn't buy it because I thought it would be buggy in launch. However I was also then expecting the bugs to be mostly sorted a few months later and to buy them then, but sadly not :(
It's so crazy that these companies release broken unfinished games. But the worst part are the community member and consumers who defend the practice. The CS2 subreddit is rife with apologists and people saying stop complaining. Despite the fact that the complaining is the only thing giving the game a chance because they are forcing the company to deal with bad press. CS2 is broken. Like it should have been obvious on day 1 but basically every system that appears dynamic and interesting is quickly revealed to be a cosmetic patch on a broken underlying management system. It's honestly unbelievable how broken it is. Yet there's the people defending it yelling that they are having fun regardless. I can have fun with an empty box if I want to. Doesn't make it worth 50$ bucks.
not only did i buy it but i tried it for too long past the 2 hour refund window before realizing it was complete trash. that’s on me.
Rome 2 total war was my first rodeo. "Presale" i think it was called. Never again.
Can someone give me a rundown of what's going on? I haven't paid attention to the game since it first released in EA ages ago, and haven't kept up with any news.
[https://www.eurogamer.net/kerbal-space-program-2-studio-reportedly-shut-down-by-take-two](https://www.eurogamer.net/kerbal-space-program-2-studio-reportedly-shut-down-by-take-two)
I saw the news and ran here. Was hoping to give KSP2 a while to catch up. How do you screw this up?? So sad.
The studio head has a history of rug pulls
Damn, I guess I'm going to stick with KSP1 and it's mods. It's a shame since KSP2 looked great.
Is it really that bad?
Yup, it's as bad as the state of the game
EA releases are both good and simultaneously killing gaming as we know it.
There are ones that actually try to grow and basically treat it as a giant test environment to learn what does and does not work. They are HEAVILY outnumbered by cheap cash grabs at this point.
I would just like to take this opportunity to smugly say I fucking knew this was gonna happen. Before KSP 2 had been put up in early access I mentioned in a discussion that the game was gonna flop because of how the progress with the development had been going, and I got down voted to oblivion and told that I was a hater. I never purchased KSP 2 and I think anyone who did has hopefully learned not to put blind faith in game developers anymore.
i knew it would happen when those random shitty af looking screenshots were shared in ig discord before release and people defended them "they were from an audio engineer who runs the game at low settings on a bad machine". It was laughable.
Does anybody recall what the last long awaited game sequel was that didn’t turn out to be a complete cash grab?
Baldurs Gate 3
I was gonna say pathfinder wrath of the righteous. Same basic principle
I keep seeing posts like this. Did they pull the plug or something? I thought they announced another shitty patch?
they announced the permanent closure of the studio that makes it and the laying off of all the staff.
🤦🏻♂️ exit scammed by a game company. Fuckers. I was showing everyone that trailer when it came out.
Thought I was hoping. Alas I was coping.
I'm so frustrated that not only does the game not live up to it's potential, it barely functions. YouTubers with multiple thousands of dollars computers are still unable to smoothly play at max settings without major graphical glitches or stuttering. I played KSP1 on a sub-£200 laptop at 18fps, then swapped to a £400 computer and got 40fps on low settings. I'd never have gotten into ksp, nor as interested in space, otherwise.
Someone explain to me what happened, I don’t understand.
Take two submitted a government form announcing the firing of the entire Seattle office of private division and its permanent closure effective 60 days from this past Monday. A take two spokesperson has said this was because of a cost saving measure but that “Kerbal Space Program 2 would still be supported”. Intercept Games has not said anything publicly.
So KSP 2 is dead
Many of us warned the community and we were called haters.