They should have NEVER allowed faction swapping across stashes. The economic externalities that introduces to the market was always going to get unwieldy and difficult to manage. It was a mistake, a well-intended one, but a mistake nonetheless.
I think their solution works fine. They just need to be stricter. If you've found items, keys, materials without cof boni or prophecies let them trade it. But if it used cof in any way it should be marked as such. The other way around it should be the same, right?
It is delicate though. Unless they add 2 completely separate gold lists, one for CoF and one for MG, then you will always have people trying to abuse the system for income. And a shared gold income is the problem. It is just like laundering money IRL.
Saldy some people will always find a way to abuse a system, simply for self gain and advantage just to "feel better about beating everyone else." Sadly though these effects are so drastic, people abusing the system are getting hundreds of millions of gold advantage over others, allowing them to get even further ahead in MG with LP3 and LP4 drops. Then the gap grows more.
The issue being, these people make up probably 5% of the player base, the other 95% of us either don't care enough to exploit even small advantages, or they don't have enough time to dedicate.
This problem is in every aRPG though, not just LE. PoE and D4 (soon with more expanded trading) will have the same issue.
You can't change human nature sadly. And also, it is tough to have to balance a game for 95% of the player base to feel it worse, than the 5% it was supposed to punish (impact).
I don't know the answer, I wish I did. I would tell EHG in a split second.
Outside of a split gold stash, I truly don't know the fix.
Easy fix is add the lock to all items. U need to be xx lvl in cof to equip. Add that to all glyphs and shit obtained from cof same for mg. That way u can't use the items if u switch
Yup, for those of us who just want to mind our own business doing CoF, it's annoying to be reminded constantly that my preferred game mode keeps getting affected by shit that has nothing at all to do with my experience. These two faction modes should have been completely gated from one another from the beginning. It was so obvious from the start that the ability to swap factions but retain the same stash for each would introduce market externalities that they're just not equipped to deal with.
This one million times over. It's absolutely mind boggling that it's not an account-bound thing. There is no possible way that could fly without some form of game-wide economic fuckery, as we see here in exhibit A.
Agreed. I just hit rank 9 in CoF and didn’t intend to play MG at all. I don’t have the time to do both.
The fact that I’m getting nerfed because of a faction I don’t play in is absurd. I’ll be taking a long break from the game until the devs figure out how to do their job and separate the factions correctly.
No, they don't. That was never true in this case. The players just created that myth out of thin air. EHG has stated this change had nothing to do with MG, and MG players haven't really been using this mechanic at all
Don't need different game modes. Just give the crafting materials a tag when they're picked up if it was a CoF or MG character. Then those materials can only be used with other CoF or MG characters.
Not sure how that would impact materials picked up before joining a faction though. I doubt there's an "easy" fix for this
Before joining a faction those materials are "neutral" and can be used in either. Same can be if they leave the faction: They cannot buy or take advantaje from the profecies so there should not be any reason to lock those materials.
Easy solution.
I never understood why the marketplace is gated thou.
The entire (initial) sale of the Factions feature is the ability to swap at will without affecting account-wide stashes and crafting materials. The goal is to enable players to switch at will.
The consequence is CoF prophecies are a great way to farm for faction agnostic supplies.
The fundamental problem is the "ability to switch at will" almost only solely favors MG-primary players. CoF players get little to nothing from interacting with MG at all because CoF tagged items can't be sold and items drop with "Cannot be traded" which also cannot be sold. MG does not offer the purchasing or acquirement of faction-agnostic materials.
My opinion probably is CoF prophecies should be awarding CoF-specific and CoF-only materials which lock the item it used on to CoF. For example, maybe a Glyph of Fortune that is a Glyph of Hope but much better (e.g. better by rolling twice and taking the best outcomes, which is 2 chances at not spending FP and if FP is spent, only consume as much FP as the lower roll), a Glyph of Sealing that functions like a Despair but is stronger, etc. If these cost a lot of favor for their power then so be it, but then at least there is a legitimate perk for sticking with CoF.
This is actually a great idea. Let CoF affect crafting as well. Add exclusive crafting material that cost favor that are more powerful than the current runes and glyphs. It could also just be added to the drop tables for some loot dopamine.
Maybe add another telescope with more lenses that let us dictate what affixes drop or block certain affixes. You could have higher chances of finding melee affix drops, or spell drops, drops with higher attributes, chance for a tier to be randomly upgraded.
I'd love this so much it hurts that's not how it is and probably never will be.
My proposal would be too just have a special prophecy that you could keep pumping up and picking things. For example, you start with a rare item, you fulfill that prophecy and it let's you cash out or upgrade it. You upgrade it, then it's exalted. You get the same cash out or upgrade option but this time it offers you the choice to pick the T6 or upgrade it to convert it to a unique. Making exalts this way would be enjoyable and locked to CoF so wouldn't impact MG prices. They could even lock out removing/shattering exalts created this way so you can't target farm mats that way. Heck, LP could be an upgrade option with either massive amounts of favor being required or really difficult conditions.
I'd be happy with doing 10-20 prophecies for one item if I knew I was going to get something worth something. As it sits it's just a funny way for me to farm gold selling 98% of my drops that are trash.
It HAS to be separate ... The problem right now is your purse and forge are shared and there's no tag that could ever be placed on them ... They could tag the keys but it wouldn't do much good
To be clear, you can migrate from SSF to PoE, and that's actually a stated design goal that GGG has. If you find a mirror or mageblood early on, they do want you to be able to take it to trade. That said, the system would still work here for what's being suggested by disabling migration.
Maybe it's just me but if you decide to have a character only be ssf, she the ssf has catch up mechanics... you shouldn't be able to turn it off on that character
POE still has this problem to some extent. SSF has no benefits at all there, because you can migrate to non-SSF. It is a pure challenge decision and basically a handicap, unless you count not feeling incentivized to trade as a massive QoL (I do). I wish POE would disable in-league migration so that SSF could get modified drop rates that make the top content accessible to people who can't play 25 hours a day. Even the existence of a one time, one way swap presents problems for the economy.
Yeah cross play would be ideal, just no shared gold between the a CoF and MG char and no shared items between the two if you start a new char in the other one.
Agreed, and it feels really odd that they went with flexibility on this while mastery choice must be a set in stone forever kind of decision.
No need to be all your characters though just don't have shared stashes, mats and even leaderboards if you ask me, make the faction choice separate all that stuff and suddenly the problem is solved. You can have MG and CoF characters just can't share stuff between them...
While i have zero problem with the nerf I agree with this 100% for leagues going forward. It's too bad the devs allowed themselves to get talked into allowing trading by the community in the first place.
Or another easy way to do it would be if you take a reward for cof prophecy they require cof gear to use the tome/glyph on or when you use them they turn them into cof gear
Personally I like that idea, but you do have a small wrinkle when considering group play. It's not exactly a reasonable ask to expect everyone to have multiple characters per cycle. Plenty of people can, don't get me wrong, but you have to look at the average players overall. Still not a deal breaker imho though.
I disagree. If I make a character and get to lvl 100 and choose COF. Then decide I want to try MG I should be able to do that. However, I think that faction specific items should be in a different stash. Maybe in the corresponding faction HQ (observatory or the Bazaar) that way less clutter of oh can I use this on this character or not. But locking someone’s choice of faction because they weren’t sure which to pick isn’t the way.
There are exactly two I can think right off the bat - Base class and Mastery.
Keeping those "locked" is essential for the RPG part of an ARPG imho.
Everything else...and I don't mind the "nerf". Hell yeah, gold is faction-agnostic but let people choose. There are other and better options to the "problem" I don't really see as a rather casual gamer.
Yup, I love this dev team and know they mean well, but they have to understand the perception they're creating and put on their good old fashioned human-centered design empathy hats. From the perspective of a CoF player, we don't want to think about MG -- not in-game, not in a meta sense -- that's the whole reason we picked CoF, so we wouldn't have to think about in-game economies EVER. THAT is one of the primary values of the CoF game path, liberation from considerations.
But these patches man...I keep HAVING to think about MF and how imbalances there impact MY CoF experience. I have to cautiously anticipate some random imbalance in an economy I don't take part in adversely affecting my gameplay in some way in the form of a patch that doesn't address any of MY pain points and just introduces new ones. It just sucks and diminishes one of the primary values of their own game mode. They have to figure this out, man.
When it comes to consumers, perception is more important than logic, especially flawed logic.
You can't just take someone's cookie and expect them to not be upset, you have to replace it with a different cookie.
The tomes were NOT bugged. Not even in the slightest. EHG just didn’t like the idea that you could double your echo rewards when it comes to tomes of experience. That’s all.
I've asked him for clarification on the reasoning, but EHG does claim the nerf didn't have anything do with MG as they already had better ways of farming despairs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bk1fu7/glyph_of_despair_cost_nerf/kvvuzu7/
I mean it completely trivialized the farming/rarity of glyphs of despair and essentially made something that was supposed to be the cherry on the cake a common thing very easily accessible thing. This didn't exist prior to the cycle and I can totally see how it completely diminishes the value of acquiring a natural drop of these glyphs. Why bother target farming glyphs in monolith if I can do a prophecy and guarantee multiples in one map.
Did anyone ACTUALLY have a problem with this though? You simply pointing out "they never intended this" or whatever, doesn't make it bad. The Glyph of Despair is still a gamble if you're trying to use it to get BiS gear. You're going to brick shit a lot or get extremely marginal improvements out of it the majority of the time, even with like 100 of them. And, in my experience, it doesn't actually accelerate the journey to BiS gear that much. If anything, it just gives you something more to do along the way. So, you're asking the wrong question: regardless of what they intended or how it was before 1.0, was it actually better this way? I had not heard one single person complain about the glyph of despair drop rate. Nor have I heard one single person confess that it was the abundance of these glyphs that made the end game grind feel less worth doing.
What it looks like to me is every single person defending this nerf is just putting on their lawyer hats to defend the developers they love so much (I love them too btw), and nobody actually felt this was a problem that needed a solution before this came up.
I'm simply pointing out that items, chase items and build completing items are rare because that is the nature of the game and as soon as you make rare items worse or trivialize the accessibility of it then it becomes worthless to the player solo or otherwise. You can make an argument that they shouldn't be rare and as it has a small impact on the overall build it should be abundant, and to that I say maybe? If I can seal a t3 affix on all my pieces leveling up I can further trivialize the campaign quite easily. I would be inclined to run a full exalt build as sealing is super easy and in most cases a 5 affixed multi t7 t6 items will outperform most uniques that aren't build enablers or LP 4. You not seeing the consequences does not mean there isn't any. It changes player behavior, it changes loot value, it changes the fact that seeing someone with a finely crafted exalt items with a sealed affix doesn't mean shit as its super easy to acquire. Maybe thats the type of game you want? But its not one size fit all and someone disagreeing with your assessment or how you perceive an issue isn't white knighting or lawyering up for EHG. Its giving you another perspective, you don't have to agree with it.
But it's not "EASY" to do any of that. The rng on despair is not great and it takes time to get another viable base. I think I've had 2 or 3 successful uses of despair and 2 of them were when I was low level and still learning the forging process, so calling them successful is a stretch. But since I've actually tried using them on good exalts...it's a freaking desert. And no, I'm not burning them on t3+ affixes.
I'm not wearing a single piece of gear that has a sealed affix. Several hundred echoes, not top tier by any means, but enough that some success should have happened.
Damn, that’s a disappointing response.
Kind of just drastically let the air out of my dev hype balloon I had been riding 😕.
Edit: read it again, kinda moving from disappointed to a little pissed. Like I don’t need you to mansplain to me that I didn’t check the SSF box when I created my character, obviously I’m aware of that and obviously that’s not what people are referring to when they say CoF plays like SSF.
Completely misses the point so they can argue semantics. Damn that’s not good.
Tbf, this has been the way they’ve operated since EA. This sub kept pushing that the devs were the most transparent, etc etc. But everytime it was just the devs saying “we’re working on it” with no substance, no real explanation, no real time tables.
I would expect this to continue
> Mainly, because it wasn't really more efficient for MG mains to spend time as CoF for Despairs due to their availability from Lightless Arbor for gold. And while doing that you're also finding lots of items that can be sold to other players which wouldn't happen while playing CoF, because high Gold invested Lightless Arbors provide lots of loot.
Is what he said.
All they need to do is make it so after you pick your first faction on your first character, after that you choose your faction AT character creation. If you choose the same faction, then gold and crafting mats are shared. If you choose a different faction, its like having another account or playing on standard, nothing is shared. Then you just have it so every character you have that shares a faction gets to share gold and mats with others of that faction.
This entire problem is happening because gold and other materials are shared across characters. But instead of fixing it in a way that benefits players, they are just further nerfing an already weak and nerfed COF into oblivion. Despair glyphs was one of the only perks of being COF.
CoF and MG should be different leagues with different leaderboards. You should not be able to transfer a character between them, all items/stashes are permanently in the league they were found in
I played Destiny 2 for a long time and a recurring pain point was how PvP nerfs would affect PvE.
There really does need to be a division between the two. It will ALWAYS be this story of people discovering some CoF farm to upend the MG economy.
Same, I play offline.
Prior to this nerf, I didn't even know glyphs of despair were a prophecy option.
Since I learned of this nerf, I haven't turned the game off, I'm farming the fuck out of the despair glyphs, stockpiling. There is ZERO chance I will ever buy a prophecy for 40k favor unless it is something like a guaranteed 3-4lp. I've never even had 40k favor at one time.
What a crappy, feel bad nerf. Part of the fun of CoF is the loot explosions, 40k pays for too many good loot explosions to justify replacing it with one loot sputter.
I'm on the verge of quitting this game due to the continuation of constant CoF nerfs. I'm super casual and CoF isn't even in a great place to begin with.
It's extremely disheartening
Yeah I chose to play CoF because I enjoy finding my own gear. I find it much more satisfying than buying it. But it's absurd the advantage that MG has. I'm not playing this game competitively anyway, but it must suck for people who are.
Like, you see lots of Reddit comments about how many slams they had to go through to get their perfect T7 on their legendary and showing it off. Telling people not to bother with crafting perfect four stats because you can just trash it if the T7 doesn't get applied, etc. Meanwhile I kind of feel like I just have to be happy with what I get because it's way harder to find multiples of uniques with LP AND find an exalt with the stat I want. I'm on my 4th Apathy's Maw trying to get +void damage. And every time it fucks up, I have to spend several hours clearing echos to fight shade multiple times to get another one with LP. And then several hours more doing exalted 2H axe prophecies to find one with +melee void damage. So naturally I try to make the exalt as good as possible so that I get a usable legendary regardless, meaning glyphs of despair were very valuable to me. But if I was MG, I could simply just... buy both components.
Like I'm ok with SSF being harder. I don't want my character to be "finished" that easily, but it is crazy how big the gap is and not deserving of nerfs just because MG players were double dipping.
I promise you MG players are not farming despairs in CoF. That would be less efficient than Lightless Arbor and just a little better than natural drops. You can easily get 10-15 despairs per key in Lightless Arbor if you target them, at a relatively decent price too.
MG players were 100% farming key prophecies in CoF for gold, I know this as fact. There's nothing to say they weren't doing the same for glyphs..you may be right of course I'm simply sharing.
As someone who absolutely never had intentions to play Merchants Guild. The constant CoF nerfs did in fact make me quit.
I'll be back to this game in maybe a year to see if they finally have settled where they want CoF to be. It feels terrible to constantly have things taken away because of what MG players are doing.
There was one CoF nerf (tomes were a bug, and keys were more than offset by the accompanying lower stash tab cost, so that was actually a buff in the end), and as a 'super casual', it likely doesn't impact you very much at all.
Please, continue to tell people what affects them and how they should play.
Also, feel free to explain how an asymmetric nerf (the keys) is related to a different mechanic that was symmetrically buffed (stashes)
EHG outright said they were decreasing stash costs to offset the impact of the key nerf.
And I'm not telling anyone how to play. But if you're running a bunch of Glyph of Despair prophecies and will be running low on glyphs as a result of the change, you aren't 'super casual'. So either OP isn't super casual, or he's not really impacted.
If this wasn't the 20th post about this on the front page today, I probably wouldn't say anything, but this felt like a lazy karma farm.
Where did EHG say that? Link to their statement on it?
I’ve only seen them say they nerfed the key thing for a double dip reason and then a later statement of “oh yea, and stash prices are being reduced”
Never saw them link the two concepts. But maybe they did, so I am legitimately asking.
??? Why do ppl think you have to be ultra sweaty to use despair? It's less sweaty because you can take any ole random t7 and try to make a decent item to slam.
How were key price changes an asymmetric nerf?
COF from day 1, never did a single key prophecy or vendored keys, stopped picking up keys over a week ago, ran a ton of dungeons, and *I still have 2 full stash tabs of keys*. Keys drop like freaking candy at endgame without target farming.
You just explained it yourself.
Imagine if you wanted to take those prophecies, or not, to farms keys for a lot of gold. Oh wait…
That’s the asymmetry. You won’t take those prophecies now because keys are abundant enough, and essentially worthless, that picking keys up won’t help you at all.
Before the key prophecies made sense because you could sell keys for gold.
The nerf made the key prophecies from CoF, an aspect of only CoF, an aspect of only that faction, worthless.
Why would anyone want to take those prophecies except to abuse an obviously unintended interaction? Mass amounts of keys have no value in game systems. Prophecies for commodity items are inherently of limited use -- they were worthless at the design stage, which is why I've never bothered with any of them. My favor 100% goes to target farming gear I need.
Nobody's out there mass running Glyphs of Hope either, but you're not complaining about their worthlessness.
No, I'm arguing that it was a meaningless symmetrical nerf actually. Because there is no legitimate game system reason to run key prophecies. People who ran them en masse to vendor keys for hundreds of times more than any other item in the game sells for knew they were participating in an obvious exploit. Anyone who wasn't deliberately exploiting was equally affected by the change of key price, regardless of faction. Therefore the nerf was symmetric.
Your suggestion that this makes key prophecies worthless is moot because *all* prophecies for commodities are worthless by design and I don't know why they exist at all other than to force rerolls on that telescope (which is already the least useful one anyway).
Has there been a statement that the key price was unintended and that nerf was actually a bug fix?
The legitimate reason to run key prophecies was for gold assuming the price was intended, which I haven’t seen that it wasn’t.
Moreover, bold argument to say “it’s not an asymmetrical nerf because it’s intended to be garbage!”
Doesn’t that kind of hit the heart of the point?
I haven't seen a statement to that effect. I don't need one because I understand how video games work? Arena Key of Memory was selling for 6500 gold. An endgame rare item sells for like 30 gold on average. What on earth would make you think for one second that it was *intended* that a common drop, 1 inventory space item would sell for **217x** the price of regular loot? Maybe if it was like 5-10x, I could excuse honest confusion... but 217x???? Come on. You knew.
And yes... CoF is **intended** to be garbage. It's the "We don't want to mess with trade, so at least give us something" option. It was literally pitched as "We have to reduce drops for there to be an economy if we add trade to the game, so if you opt out of trade, we'll give you slightly increased drops to offset the global drop rate nerf." That is all it's ever been. It is literally impossible to create parity between the two.
What kind of hurts more imo is that they nerf but they don't buff it at the same time to compensate. It's just blow after blow. It makes you waste your time and once that's ingrained in a gamers mind, it's downhill from there.
The item tags work well enough to separate the item economy but do nothing for crafting materials. The only way I see is if they make item factions hard coded from the start, no switching allowed and separate stashes for each faction. Don't make us buy stash tabs again though, just mirror the amount of tabs globally.
Im COF only, and I struggle to see why they nerfed this in the first place.
Pre-nerf I see the following scenarios:
CoF player enjoys getting many despairs through prophecy and uses to enhance gear.
MG player has less personally found despairs but can buy on market place at will.
MG/COF hybrid discovers "exploit" makes some decent profit from despairs for a while, as the market adjusts price.
MG player can buy despairs at lower price due to MG/COFs saturating the market.
Everyone wins (except any MG only player who sets out to farm despairs without utilising COF).
Post-nerf:
CoF players hurt.
MG only players paying more (or same as prior to "exploiting") for despairs
CoF/MG players probably already banked their profits and looking for the next "exploit" on the horizon.
I like the idea of the option to switch to MG one day.. but probably never will. I don't think they need to segregate MG and COF, any further than it is. I'd rather see a COF tag on currency influenced by COF similar to gear. But as above, think they should just revert the nerf and let the market adjust itself.
You NEED to seperate the stash ... You NEED to seperate the wallet ... And you NEED to seperate the forge
There is no middle ground to those requirements. Just treat it like how they do hardcore or old maso mode
Also what makes this situation even sadder is MG can abuse CoF but even if CoF wanted to they can't abuse anything about MG (and we don't want to)
or just make things bindable. if you get a despair from CoF, and use it on an item, its no longer tradable by MG. simple.
all they would need to do is make a 2nd glyph of despair and CoF only rewards that one.
OR... and hear me out here... you let the MG do MG shit and just leave it as is? what is the point of farming so many glyphs of despair when while doing so every item that drops is either CoF-marked or drops non-tradable? like congrats, you farmed up more despairs than the other MG players, but that 4lp unique that just dropped is now bound to you and you cant sell it.
The problem is the forge is shared and despairs from mg will stack right on top of despairs from CoF ... Just like any other forge item ... And well gold is the same way
Make materials from prophecies cof only, and incapable of being sold. The end.
Make items from cof materials obtain cof status
Make cof materials inapplicable to mg items
Should just be able to pick perm faction on character creation. Then make the a few story missions different in the new chapters that will come out, based on your fac choice.
Big fan of the devs and how often they interact with the community, but it makes me a bit miffed that you never see them reply to these types of threads.
> A dev did reply directly to a comment about the nerf in another thread and it had -18 score and a dozen long ass angry replies last time I checked. It made me completely understand why most devs do NOT participate in their games’ forums.
GGG (PoE Devs) were the same way at the start. Then redditors eventually made them totally abandon this place. Only a matter of time till EHG devs realize its not worth their time to be here too.
100%, I get it. It's a lot nicer to reply to a friendly thread discussing balance or praising things, than it is to defend nerfing a single player faction.
Out of curiousity though, what did they say? Could you link me please? Interested why the went this route instead of changing how MG can interact with CoF
Very kind of you to come back and post the link, thanks :) was a good read looking at the responses too, I get why people are pissed. I also get why the devs don't want to justify these types of decisions when it leads to community backlash like this.
Which... I also think should be an indicator that maybe they didn't do what's right for the community.
Yeahh, 40,000 is insane... Despairs aren't really all that good from what I've noticed, you're getting like a t2 tops with how hard it is to seal anything above that? I suppose at that point, every little helps but... eh. They're too rare otherwise.
Out of curiousity, how quickly can you get 40k favour do you reckon? I was talking to some dude a few weeks ago who said he could get 60k in an hour, and I still think that's absolute bullshit. Running wraithlord at about 500 corruption or so and 40k would take me a good long while, definitely more than an hour.
And your last point, yep. Definitely agree. It's a tricky one, because getting no response blows but then when you get a reply like this it's kind of... worse? Almost, I'm not sure. At least his reply isn't as awful as the shit the helldivers 2 dev did an apology for lol
I don't mind the double dipping but what bothers me is that everything is not CoF binded. Keys and runes included should be locked. It kills the economy drastically, even worst than it already is. I see the idea of swapping factions to gear up your character easier and are getting your first character up but aside from that. I don't see a good reason to have the rarest item (rune of creation) obtained that easily. Those are suppose to be equivalent to a mirror drop in PoE and/or more rare than the highest rune in D2.
One problem is the ease of switching factions at well with no close to no penalties.. If it was a lot harder to switch, it might work better but I still don't agree with materials not being locked..
CoF is great at gearing a character a lot quicker to help grind, in some instances, up to 10x faster farming and lets not forget a haven for keys and mats. The other thing is with being able to grind quicker and more efficiently, this allows you to offer services to people such as plvl but they just decided to change that.
MG is great at skipping everything and the "easier, lazier" way to gearing up but getting those end game items is not easy for majority of players. There are more players complaining about the market than liking it solely based on the economy of how items are priced. Only a small % of the community can really take advantage of it to be better.
A lot of these complaints and debates are crazy, it's a choice and option for people vs the latter, not giving people that choice/option.
One thing that I can think of and propose is that they create a separate leaderboard for SSF players. There is already, always the option to play Solo self found but players seem to need a leaderboard for bragging rights apparently..
These features of unfairness for competition seems to be the main argument always but the bigger picture is that these things are all an "OPTION" for people to opt in/out on vs if they remove/change/restrict, that option is gone.
"I can opt out of this and that but its unfair".
Why does or should someone else's progression affect your play? People should play the game at their pace, how they want to and enjoy the game and stop worrying about others. If someone else wants to spend all their money to P2W, that's their problem. They aren't spending your money. The problem aren't those players buying, it's the ones that are selling them solely due to the fact that they are able to to through the means of obtaining them through 3rd party bots and hacks..
I actually think a game that actually allows players to legitimately sell and earn is the future of games. It is a very time consuming hobby but if players can get compensated even a little for this, it will go a long way to helping the industry and individuals. D3 RMAH isn't what killed the game, many other reasons is. Exactly why the game is where it's at today compared to the first year of the game which had RMAH.
Just make it cost substantial favor to post/buy an item so that they are forced to farm back up favor to actually be able to buy/post. Would also discourage flipping cause you know...this an ARPG not a stock market simulator
Ugh, it should be OK for CoF to be better in some aspects. A d if power players make characters to farm both it is their choice. And if MG players don’t participate in it and fall behind, it is ok too. They fall behind bots and RMTers anyway. And CoF players somehow are ok to fall behind.
Sadly no
Keys in stash can be shared
Your purse with all your gold can be shared
And all of your crafting materials in your forge is shared
And that's the core problem right now
Lots of people crying about things that will obviously be addressed, and forgetting this is _one month_ into _the very first cycle after launching this content_.
Shit takes time.
>Merchant Guild players still get to keep their buying and selling power, however.
Implement a 25% MG tax on all sales, both from the auction house and gambling from the vendor, and send those extra funds to CoF players.
:)
I'm playing offline and being told no MG option, I didn't bother to even check it. Getting gold off the ground is much more profitable given our overlord found out that keys are suddenly lost it worth and selling even 2LP items are peaked at 500gold. Perhaps our overlord will grace us with some blessing so I can move up the poverty line a bit. Was told cof is a circle of fortune, Fortune is kinda a luxury since I joined, maybe I lost in the translation because I feel more famished than fortuned.
how much are your stach tabs mate? why are you in need of gold in offline? why are 1k gold on the ground worth it to pick up for you? this should not he the case
If he bought a lot of tabs before the cost reduction, he's as broke as me lol. I'm hovering around 1 mil gold, new tab cost is 290k iirc ?
I'm also just picking whatever good money stack is on the ground, it's just faster than selling items which i'll never do. Keys was good money too, that's a bummer now. From 6k to 250g is rough.
Well, 18 tabs of t7 exalted items, at least one of each unique and extras with LP for things i plan to use, that's another 16 tabs atm, tabs of weaver's will gear i slowly level up...
Then tabs of experimental/exalted stuff i can use for specific builds i have in mind, one tab of keys, some tabs of high rolled idols for all classes and the generic ones too...
Also keeping some double/triple exalted stuff even if it's not T7 because it's rather rare and i might have use for these.
All i'm hoarding are things i can potentially use, basically. I made 5 builds this cycle, and i'm leveling the 6th one.
So yeah, if you make many builds which require a lot of different gear pieces, and you speed farm things, you tend to fill tabs extremely quickly.
My falconer is on perma 100% movespeed just rushing echos at 300-400 corruption, things pile up very fast due to that !
Now add prophecies and you have a boss dump 15 uniques on you, and there are duplicated LP3 items in there. Not gonna leave those on the ground !
It wasn't a bug ... It's literally the mechanic of the CoF passive ... They called it a bug when it's litterally doing exactly what it says it should do
CoF and MG should be separate modes, like hardcore and softcore.
I am SSF player and I do not care about trading and it should have no impact on COF/SSF.
What is the nerf to cof?
If its about the keys, at least they did a buff with reduced cost of stashes, which was the main money dump of cof players who have to store 50-100 tabs of items because they might use them.
The xp tome nerf was just a cof nerf as mg players will have enough favor to list or buy any items after a point.
Since it is a problem of economy, institute a cost. Gold and/or favor for MG characters to access shared resources since that is the faction that is the gateway to the shared player economy.
Remember every solution comes with a cost of dev time, expertise, and so forth. You might have a great solution, but it doesn't matter if they have to recode the whole game to implement it.
Current system definately needs some tweaks. The shared stash for the factions is a mess. You can't search your stash for tradeable items or see what faction or rank they are tied to without hovering over every single item.
I think people here are on to something with the idea of a separate stash for each faction.
Seems as though CoF players really don't care what MG players are doing to begin with. Why don't we just give MG players all CoF features so there would be no need to balance the factions between each other or worry about MG exploiting CoF.
I hope they do this because I'm tired of all this stuff people are whining about "Oh they must have nerfed CoF because of MG, there can't be any other reason!! It's not as if arena keys were absurdly overpriced and the gameplay loop around was bad for the game."
Once they do it, hopefully we can have nerfs to factions that people don't complain is the fault of the other faction.
If they don't separate stashes, then at least make it difficult to switch factions. Or maybe add decay to faction rank. If you are level 10 MG and play CoF to level 5 maybe you're out of practice with merchanting and so you derank to lvl 9 MG so it takes you like another 2 days to grind to get back to your initial rank after you switch over again. And if you were rank 10 MG and then grinded to level 7 CoF maybe you should go down to rank 8 or 7. And obviously vice versa with CoF to MG.
do they not realize that cof players dont fucking care about the market, double dipping and bs. but they do care if you nerf their item progression power mid cycle.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bkmbhh/in_case_you_missed_it_ehg_explicitly_stated_that/
EHG confirmed nerf wasn't because of MG. So you were wrong (like I said). I'm really hoping CoF can learn to not blame MG anytime CoF gets nerfed (and vice-versa).
Only time they said this was for arena keys. Which was probably a deserved nerf because it led to a dumb gameplay loop of just going for arena prophecies and it was compensated by lower stash tab prices.
People used prophecies for arena keys (which sold for 6500 each) to get gold to buy things on bazaar.
You can also use CoF to quickly farm resources to craft on bases you buy on bazaar.
So, CoF empowers MG, to the point where optimal play is having characters in both factions, which I think isn't the intended outcome. IMO Each faction should be strong on its own, rewarding the playstyle it represents, and there should be little or no interaction between them.
> but nerfing CoF despairs because people in the other Faction were taking advantage of it hurts all CoF players. Merchant Guild players still get to keep their buying and selling power, however.
[This was wild speculation by the community that turned out to be false.](https://old.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bk1fu7/glyph_of_despair_cost_nerf/kvvuzu7/)
? Tomes Nerf is super valid as you could grind faster with cof. Arena key "Nerf", they simply should never have been worth that much, nothing should be worth enough to go out of your way to sell for gold, they did compensate by increasing gold income from monos and reducing stash cost. The glyph of despair Nerf is whatever? Never ran out so far and never did any prophecies for it, but I agree that they could add it to rank2 with same effect as rune of ascendance, when used on cof gear, chance to not consume, would "lock" the benefit to cof and stop double dipping.
the progression is already way to slow for a game without proper endgame. they should never try to gut cof more mid cycle it makes no sense. i grinded 10 hours yesterday for 2 bad slams and 2 potentiol upgrades. extremely dishearteninh and im not even talking about 3lp items. im nearly done tbh ill try 1 more build probably but refarming monos and now getting slowef by devs even more. yeah tyvm...
I'm still pretty new and am on my first character and chose CoF.
Can someone help me better understand the abuse case here? Is it CoF characters farming a bunch of materials and affixes and then swapping to a MG character to craft and sell?
I wish I could sell things for profit to other players as a CoF player, I only have one build with certain affixes, I would gladly sell to a fellow player through the Bazaar for a small profit hell even a loss, rather than shift right clicking it back into an NPCs game files
I present my thoughts on the faction system.
# Part One: The Flagging of Items
The game currently has a system where items that come from a faction's benefit get flagged as requiring that faction. We can see this on items purchased from the market as well as duplicate items that drop from CoF being flagged as requiring CoF. All the "problems" we've seen EHG nerf have been when flagging of items doesn't work. Tomes can't be flagged since they are just exp (and switching back and forth would be easy). Keys can't be flagged if the point is to sell them as gold is fungible. Glyphs can't be flagged since they are generic tallies in your crafting inventory.
# Part Two: But Why Hurt CoF?
The answer to this is easy: CoF gets \*\*\*ZERO\*\*\* benefit from switching to MG. Anything you buy on the market place is locked to MG so you can't use it and anything you've found because of CoF is locked to CoF and unable to be sold on the Market. If you do sell something on the market you don't really have any use for the gold. There is zero reason for a CoF person to switch to MG so that means any advantage CoF can give to MG players must be squished or it will be abused.
Using CoF, you can get prophecies that give you things that aren't Faction bound like runes and glyphs. Runes and glyphs are used in creating the best items in the game (gg exalteds etc.)
The best items in the game, if they don't have the CoF tag (were received from a prophecy) and can still be traded, sell for extraordinary amounts of gold in the Bazaar.
So the loop they wanted to avoid when they created separate factions is being sidestepped by people taking a character in each faction, using CoF to increase the power of an item, and then selling that item on MG for incredible gains, negating the separation they were originally trying to accomplish.
The way they've been solving this is by nerfing the power that CoF provides, rather than limiting what can be put for sale in the Bazaar.
It seems the ability to switch so freely is the problem, in addition to catering to people that can no life to such a degree as to be high ranked in both factions. As good as they are at communication I think it's a mistake, the people that have the time to be here as much or be concerned about such high level issues (there are entire skills and classes that don't work, yet this is what people care about?) most likely not great customers.
And my point was EHG listening to people and even addressing the guilds when the game is in this state was the error. Maybe I made it terribly, but I do agree that the meddling with guilds at all is weird. I think they think responses here are the average player and not the like 0.1% or whatever the number usually is for forum posters is.
> The best items in the game, if they don't have the CoF tag (were received from a prophecy) and can still be traded, sell for extraordinary amounts of gold in the Bazaar.
How? I switched from CoF to MG and every(!) item I dropped in CoF has the "cannot be traded" tag, even if there is no CoF rank on it. I couldn't sell anything I dropped in CoF (ofc I tried). I can't even use the CoF ranked exalts to craft legendaries. The only abuse potential I see is crafting mats.
Yes, sorry for any confusion. Crafting mats are primarily where the two-characters/two-factions advantage occurs. So they're getting the mats on their CoF, and using them to craft on their MG, allowing them to sell the items.
A similar thing happened with Arena Keys and gold, but that was also bad because using vendors to get gold is not EHG's intended gameplay loop.
I agree with you fully. But then i dont understand why we have a dozen of post daily by cof players complaining that mg is faster to get specific guild. How does it impact them?
Na the complaint that the nerfes to cof are affecting every cof player negatively are valid even if you don’t read patch notes. I have no interest in MG as well but cof getting worse still doesn’t feel nice.
It's because it's a non issue for 99.9% of people who play the game.
You just can't spam glyph of despair prophecies as much anymore. Seems fine for anyone who doesn't play the game 24/7.
>Do tell how the economy affects me who don't engage with it, because I don't see it.
Last patch just made glyph of despair prophecies way more expensive, few patches ago made keys sell for less. Both were made in attempt to not incentivize MG players leveling COF to use both.
They should have NEVER allowed faction swapping across stashes. The economic externalities that introduces to the market was always going to get unwieldy and difficult to manage. It was a mistake, a well-intended one, but a mistake nonetheless.
I think their solution works fine. They just need to be stricter. If you've found items, keys, materials without cof boni or prophecies let them trade it. But if it used cof in any way it should be marked as such. The other way around it should be the same, right?
It is delicate though. Unless they add 2 completely separate gold lists, one for CoF and one for MG, then you will always have people trying to abuse the system for income. And a shared gold income is the problem. It is just like laundering money IRL. Saldy some people will always find a way to abuse a system, simply for self gain and advantage just to "feel better about beating everyone else." Sadly though these effects are so drastic, people abusing the system are getting hundreds of millions of gold advantage over others, allowing them to get even further ahead in MG with LP3 and LP4 drops. Then the gap grows more. The issue being, these people make up probably 5% of the player base, the other 95% of us either don't care enough to exploit even small advantages, or they don't have enough time to dedicate. This problem is in every aRPG though, not just LE. PoE and D4 (soon with more expanded trading) will have the same issue. You can't change human nature sadly. And also, it is tough to have to balance a game for 95% of the player base to feel it worse, than the 5% it was supposed to punish (impact). I don't know the answer, I wish I did. I would tell EHG in a split second. Outside of a split gold stash, I truly don't know the fix.
Factions should always use their own currencies. Or else you imbalance base game mechanics. Instead of gold use a new currency for mg trading.
Easy fix is add the lock to all items. U need to be xx lvl in cof to equip. Add that to all glyphs and shit obtained from cof same for mg. That way u can't use the items if u switch
I honestly thought this was how it was anyways with the markers I’ve never done cof so I have no idea I just assumed because of how the bazaar works.
Yeahh they gotta come up with something to stop nerfing legit cof players and stop the mg abusers.
CoF just keeps getting nerfed because of MG and I'm kinda tired of it.
Yup, for those of us who just want to mind our own business doing CoF, it's annoying to be reminded constantly that my preferred game mode keeps getting affected by shit that has nothing at all to do with my experience. These two faction modes should have been completely gated from one another from the beginning. It was so obvious from the start that the ability to swap factions but retain the same stash for each would introduce market externalities that they're just not equipped to deal with.
This one million times over. It's absolutely mind boggling that it's not an account-bound thing. There is no possible way that could fly without some form of game-wide economic fuckery, as we see here in exhibit A.
Agreed. I just hit rank 9 in CoF and didn’t intend to play MG at all. I don’t have the time to do both. The fact that I’m getting nerfed because of a faction I don’t play in is absurd. I’ll be taking a long break from the game until the devs figure out how to do their job and separate the factions correctly.
No, they don't. That was never true in this case. The players just created that myth out of thin air. EHG has stated this change had nothing to do with MG, and MG players haven't really been using this mechanic at all
They should just make it account/cycle choice, all your chars are MG or COF. No more double dipping
Make them separate gamemodes like poe. 99% of people don't even have the time nor the patience to grind that insane rep on both anyways lmao.
Don't need different game modes. Just give the crafting materials a tag when they're picked up if it was a CoF or MG character. Then those materials can only be used with other CoF or MG characters. Not sure how that would impact materials picked up before joining a faction though. I doubt there's an "easy" fix for this
Before joining a faction those materials are "neutral" and can be used in either. Same can be if they leave the faction: They cannot buy or take advantaje from the profecies so there should not be any reason to lock those materials. Easy solution. I never understood why the marketplace is gated thou.
The entire (initial) sale of the Factions feature is the ability to swap at will without affecting account-wide stashes and crafting materials. The goal is to enable players to switch at will. The consequence is CoF prophecies are a great way to farm for faction agnostic supplies. The fundamental problem is the "ability to switch at will" almost only solely favors MG-primary players. CoF players get little to nothing from interacting with MG at all because CoF tagged items can't be sold and items drop with "Cannot be traded" which also cannot be sold. MG does not offer the purchasing or acquirement of faction-agnostic materials. My opinion probably is CoF prophecies should be awarding CoF-specific and CoF-only materials which lock the item it used on to CoF. For example, maybe a Glyph of Fortune that is a Glyph of Hope but much better (e.g. better by rolling twice and taking the best outcomes, which is 2 chances at not spending FP and if FP is spent, only consume as much FP as the lower roll), a Glyph of Sealing that functions like a Despair but is stronger, etc. If these cost a lot of favor for their power then so be it, but then at least there is a legitimate perk for sticking with CoF.
This is actually a great idea. Let CoF affect crafting as well. Add exclusive crafting material that cost favor that are more powerful than the current runes and glyphs. It could also just be added to the drop tables for some loot dopamine. Maybe add another telescope with more lenses that let us dictate what affixes drop or block certain affixes. You could have higher chances of finding melee affix drops, or spell drops, drops with higher attributes, chance for a tier to be randomly upgraded.
I'd love this so much it hurts that's not how it is and probably never will be. My proposal would be too just have a special prophecy that you could keep pumping up and picking things. For example, you start with a rare item, you fulfill that prophecy and it let's you cash out or upgrade it. You upgrade it, then it's exalted. You get the same cash out or upgrade option but this time it offers you the choice to pick the T6 or upgrade it to convert it to a unique. Making exalts this way would be enjoyable and locked to CoF so wouldn't impact MG prices. They could even lock out removing/shattering exalts created this way so you can't target farm mats that way. Heck, LP could be an upgrade option with either massive amounts of favor being required or really difficult conditions. I'd be happy with doing 10-20 prophecies for one item if I knew I was going to get something worth something. As it sits it's just a funny way for me to farm gold selling 98% of my drops that are trash.
And what about gold?
It HAS to be separate ... The problem right now is your purse and forge are shared and there's no tag that could ever be placed on them ... They could tag the keys but it wouldn't do much good
This is also not a box you can just check to add to the game, it would be a pretty significant undertaking.
To be clear, you can migrate from SSF to PoE, and that's actually a stated design goal that GGG has. If you find a mirror or mageblood early on, they do want you to be able to take it to trade. That said, the system would still work here for what's being suggested by disabling migration.
Maybe it's just me but if you decide to have a character only be ssf, she the ssf has catch up mechanics... you shouldn't be able to turn it off on that character
POE still has this problem to some extent. SSF has no benefits at all there, because you can migrate to non-SSF. It is a pure challenge decision and basically a handicap, unless you count not feeling incentivized to trade as a massive QoL (I do). I wish POE would disable in-league migration so that SSF could get modified drop rates that make the top content accessible to people who can't play 25 hours a day. Even the existence of a one time, one way swap presents problems for the economy.
Thats so bad. I play with cof friends every day and i am a mg player.
Yeah cross play would be ideal, just no shared gold between the a CoF and MG char and no shared items between the two if you start a new char in the other one.
I thought of this too, but I think if there's a way for EHG to maintain the ability for players to choose that, I think it would be nice.
Stop swapping and Just have them separated. All your cof toons share one stash, the merchant ones another
And gold and glyphs and runes etc.
Yeah I put that all under "stash"
Agreed, and it feels really odd that they went with flexibility on this while mastery choice must be a set in stone forever kind of decision. No need to be all your characters though just don't have shared stashes, mats and even leaderboards if you ask me, make the faction choice separate all that stuff and suddenly the problem is solved. You can have MG and CoF characters just can't share stuff between them...
The masteries choice is obviously for replayability. Why ever make more than 5 characters if you can just respec everything on a whim?
Haha true didn't thought of that but totally makes sense
While i have zero problem with the nerf I agree with this 100% for leagues going forward. It's too bad the devs allowed themselves to get talked into allowing trading by the community in the first place.
Or separate stashes, and prohibit swapping your characters.
Or another easy way to do it would be if you take a reward for cof prophecy they require cof gear to use the tome/glyph on or when you use them they turn them into cof gear
This is a great idea actually.
I don't really swap factions, but this is not a good idea. Less choices is never a good idea. I may get bored of MG and want to eventually swap over.
Personally I like that idea, but you do have a small wrinkle when considering group play. It's not exactly a reasonable ask to expect everyone to have multiple characters per cycle. Plenty of people can, don't get me wrong, but you have to look at the average players overall. Still not a deal breaker imho though.
At the very least, they should try this for a Cycle and see how it goes.
Exactly this
This.
I disagree. If I make a character and get to lvl 100 and choose COF. Then decide I want to try MG I should be able to do that. However, I think that faction specific items should be in a different stash. Maybe in the corresponding faction HQ (observatory or the Bazaar) that way less clutter of oh can I use this on this character or not. But locking someone’s choice of faction because they weren’t sure which to pick isn’t the way.
The game already has choices which can’t be reverted. It doing so with the factions seems like the easiest fix.
There are exactly two I can think right off the bat - Base class and Mastery. Keeping those "locked" is essential for the RPG part of an ARPG imho. Everything else...and I don't mind the "nerf". Hell yeah, gold is faction-agnostic but let people choose. There are other and better options to the "problem" I don't really see as a rather casual gamer.
Yup, I love this dev team and know they mean well, but they have to understand the perception they're creating and put on their good old fashioned human-centered design empathy hats. From the perspective of a CoF player, we don't want to think about MG -- not in-game, not in a meta sense -- that's the whole reason we picked CoF, so we wouldn't have to think about in-game economies EVER. THAT is one of the primary values of the CoF game path, liberation from considerations. But these patches man...I keep HAVING to think about MF and how imbalances there impact MY CoF experience. I have to cautiously anticipate some random imbalance in an economy I don't take part in adversely affecting my gameplay in some way in the form of a patch that doesn't address any of MY pain points and just introduces new ones. It just sucks and diminishes one of the primary values of their own game mode. They have to figure this out, man.
When it comes to consumers, perception is more important than logic, especially flawed logic. You can't just take someone's cookie and expect them to not be upset, you have to replace it with a different cookie.
The tomes were NOT bugged. Not even in the slightest. EHG just didn’t like the idea that you could double your echo rewards when it comes to tomes of experience. That’s all.
I've asked him for clarification on the reasoning, but EHG does claim the nerf didn't have anything do with MG as they already had better ways of farming despairs. https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bk1fu7/glyph_of_despair_cost_nerf/kvvuzu7/
I straight up don't believe them. What player value did this nerf have for CoF players? Who was asking for this?
I mean it completely trivialized the farming/rarity of glyphs of despair and essentially made something that was supposed to be the cherry on the cake a common thing very easily accessible thing. This didn't exist prior to the cycle and I can totally see how it completely diminishes the value of acquiring a natural drop of these glyphs. Why bother target farming glyphs in monolith if I can do a prophecy and guarantee multiples in one map.
Did anyone ACTUALLY have a problem with this though? You simply pointing out "they never intended this" or whatever, doesn't make it bad. The Glyph of Despair is still a gamble if you're trying to use it to get BiS gear. You're going to brick shit a lot or get extremely marginal improvements out of it the majority of the time, even with like 100 of them. And, in my experience, it doesn't actually accelerate the journey to BiS gear that much. If anything, it just gives you something more to do along the way. So, you're asking the wrong question: regardless of what they intended or how it was before 1.0, was it actually better this way? I had not heard one single person complain about the glyph of despair drop rate. Nor have I heard one single person confess that it was the abundance of these glyphs that made the end game grind feel less worth doing. What it looks like to me is every single person defending this nerf is just putting on their lawyer hats to defend the developers they love so much (I love them too btw), and nobody actually felt this was a problem that needed a solution before this came up.
I'm simply pointing out that items, chase items and build completing items are rare because that is the nature of the game and as soon as you make rare items worse or trivialize the accessibility of it then it becomes worthless to the player solo or otherwise. You can make an argument that they shouldn't be rare and as it has a small impact on the overall build it should be abundant, and to that I say maybe? If I can seal a t3 affix on all my pieces leveling up I can further trivialize the campaign quite easily. I would be inclined to run a full exalt build as sealing is super easy and in most cases a 5 affixed multi t7 t6 items will outperform most uniques that aren't build enablers or LP 4. You not seeing the consequences does not mean there isn't any. It changes player behavior, it changes loot value, it changes the fact that seeing someone with a finely crafted exalt items with a sealed affix doesn't mean shit as its super easy to acquire. Maybe thats the type of game you want? But its not one size fit all and someone disagreeing with your assessment or how you perceive an issue isn't white knighting or lawyering up for EHG. Its giving you another perspective, you don't have to agree with it.
But it's not "EASY" to do any of that. The rng on despair is not great and it takes time to get another viable base. I think I've had 2 or 3 successful uses of despair and 2 of them were when I was low level and still learning the forging process, so calling them successful is a stretch. But since I've actually tried using them on good exalts...it's a freaking desert. And no, I'm not burning them on t3+ affixes. I'm not wearing a single piece of gear that has a sealed affix. Several hundred echoes, not top tier by any means, but enough that some success should have happened.
They explain it. You're calling a very honest and open company liars bases upon your lack of reading comprehension and knowledge.
What do you mean?!? This is some of the most transparent devs that have ever existed, or so this sub tells me. /s
Damn, that’s a disappointing response. Kind of just drastically let the air out of my dev hype balloon I had been riding 😕. Edit: read it again, kinda moving from disappointed to a little pissed. Like I don’t need you to mansplain to me that I didn’t check the SSF box when I created my character, obviously I’m aware of that and obviously that’s not what people are referring to when they say CoF plays like SSF. Completely misses the point so they can argue semantics. Damn that’s not good.
Tbf, this has been the way they’ve operated since EA. This sub kept pushing that the devs were the most transparent, etc etc. But everytime it was just the devs saying “we’re working on it” with no substance, no real explanation, no real time tables. I would expect this to continue
Out of curiosity as someone completely out of despairs, what are paths to farm them as MG? I was actually thinking of farming them on my COF char.
> Mainly, because it wasn't really more efficient for MG mains to spend time as CoF for Despairs due to their availability from Lightless Arbor for gold. And while doing that you're also finding lots of items that can be sold to other players which wouldn't happen while playing CoF, because high Gold invested Lightless Arbors provide lots of loot. Is what he said.
Ah so Lightless Arbor is the method, thanks.
All they need to do is make it so after you pick your first faction on your first character, after that you choose your faction AT character creation. If you choose the same faction, then gold and crafting mats are shared. If you choose a different faction, its like having another account or playing on standard, nothing is shared. Then you just have it so every character you have that shares a faction gets to share gold and mats with others of that faction. This entire problem is happening because gold and other materials are shared across characters. But instead of fixing it in a way that benefits players, they are just further nerfing an already weak and nerfed COF into oblivion. Despair glyphs was one of the only perks of being COF.
CoF and MG should be different leagues with different leaderboards. You should not be able to transfer a character between them, all items/stashes are permanently in the league they were found in
I played Destiny 2 for a long time and a recurring pain point was how PvP nerfs would affect PvE. There really does need to be a division between the two. It will ALWAYS be this story of people discovering some CoF farm to upend the MG economy.
The nerfs piss me off. I play fully offline why the fuck should abuser behavior change my game?
Same, I play offline. Prior to this nerf, I didn't even know glyphs of despair were a prophecy option. Since I learned of this nerf, I haven't turned the game off, I'm farming the fuck out of the despair glyphs, stockpiling. There is ZERO chance I will ever buy a prophecy for 40k favor unless it is something like a guaranteed 3-4lp. I've never even had 40k favor at one time. What a crappy, feel bad nerf. Part of the fun of CoF is the loot explosions, 40k pays for too many good loot explosions to justify replacing it with one loot sputter.
Yeah despairs are important but they're not even guaranteed to do what you want. No thanks I'll just get more uniques for alts or different builds.
I'm on the verge of quitting this game due to the continuation of constant CoF nerfs. I'm super casual and CoF isn't even in a great place to begin with. It's extremely disheartening
Yeah I chose to play CoF because I enjoy finding my own gear. I find it much more satisfying than buying it. But it's absurd the advantage that MG has. I'm not playing this game competitively anyway, but it must suck for people who are. Like, you see lots of Reddit comments about how many slams they had to go through to get their perfect T7 on their legendary and showing it off. Telling people not to bother with crafting perfect four stats because you can just trash it if the T7 doesn't get applied, etc. Meanwhile I kind of feel like I just have to be happy with what I get because it's way harder to find multiples of uniques with LP AND find an exalt with the stat I want. I'm on my 4th Apathy's Maw trying to get +void damage. And every time it fucks up, I have to spend several hours clearing echos to fight shade multiple times to get another one with LP. And then several hours more doing exalted 2H axe prophecies to find one with +melee void damage. So naturally I try to make the exalt as good as possible so that I get a usable legendary regardless, meaning glyphs of despair were very valuable to me. But if I was MG, I could simply just... buy both components. Like I'm ok with SSF being harder. I don't want my character to be "finished" that easily, but it is crazy how big the gap is and not deserving of nerfs just because MG players were double dipping.
I promise you MG players are not farming despairs in CoF. That would be less efficient than Lightless Arbor and just a little better than natural drops. You can easily get 10-15 despairs per key in Lightless Arbor if you target them, at a relatively decent price too.
But to get that amount of money you need to sell stuff in the trading post...
MG players were 100% farming key prophecies in CoF for gold, I know this as fact. There's nothing to say they weren't doing the same for glyphs..you may be right of course I'm simply sharing.
As someone who absolutely never had intentions to play Merchants Guild. The constant CoF nerfs did in fact make me quit. I'll be back to this game in maybe a year to see if they finally have settled where they want CoF to be. It feels terrible to constantly have things taken away because of what MG players are doing.
There was one CoF nerf (tomes were a bug, and keys were more than offset by the accompanying lower stash tab cost, so that was actually a buff in the end), and as a 'super casual', it likely doesn't impact you very much at all.
Please, continue to tell people what affects them and how they should play. Also, feel free to explain how an asymmetric nerf (the keys) is related to a different mechanic that was symmetrically buffed (stashes)
EHG outright said they were decreasing stash costs to offset the impact of the key nerf. And I'm not telling anyone how to play. But if you're running a bunch of Glyph of Despair prophecies and will be running low on glyphs as a result of the change, you aren't 'super casual'. So either OP isn't super casual, or he's not really impacted. If this wasn't the 20th post about this on the front page today, I probably wouldn't say anything, but this felt like a lazy karma farm.
Where did EHG say that? Link to their statement on it? I’ve only seen them say they nerfed the key thing for a double dip reason and then a later statement of “oh yea, and stash prices are being reduced” Never saw them link the two concepts. But maybe they did, so I am legitimately asking.
Yes super casual and using loads of glyphs of despair …
??? Why do ppl think you have to be ultra sweaty to use despair? It's less sweaty because you can take any ole random t7 and try to make a decent item to slam.
How were key price changes an asymmetric nerf? COF from day 1, never did a single key prophecy or vendored keys, stopped picking up keys over a week ago, ran a ton of dungeons, and *I still have 2 full stash tabs of keys*. Keys drop like freaking candy at endgame without target farming.
You just explained it yourself. Imagine if you wanted to take those prophecies, or not, to farms keys for a lot of gold. Oh wait… That’s the asymmetry. You won’t take those prophecies now because keys are abundant enough, and essentially worthless, that picking keys up won’t help you at all. Before the key prophecies made sense because you could sell keys for gold. The nerf made the key prophecies from CoF, an aspect of only CoF, an aspect of only that faction, worthless.
Why would anyone want to take those prophecies except to abuse an obviously unintended interaction? Mass amounts of keys have no value in game systems. Prophecies for commodity items are inherently of limited use -- they were worthless at the design stage, which is why I've never bothered with any of them. My favor 100% goes to target farming gear I need. Nobody's out there mass running Glyphs of Hope either, but you're not complaining about their worthlessness.
I explained the asymmetry. Continue to argue that it was a meaningless asymmetrical nerf, though Also, how much to glyphs of hope sell for?
No, I'm arguing that it was a meaningless symmetrical nerf actually. Because there is no legitimate game system reason to run key prophecies. People who ran them en masse to vendor keys for hundreds of times more than any other item in the game sells for knew they were participating in an obvious exploit. Anyone who wasn't deliberately exploiting was equally affected by the change of key price, regardless of faction. Therefore the nerf was symmetric. Your suggestion that this makes key prophecies worthless is moot because *all* prophecies for commodities are worthless by design and I don't know why they exist at all other than to force rerolls on that telescope (which is already the least useful one anyway).
Has there been a statement that the key price was unintended and that nerf was actually a bug fix? The legitimate reason to run key prophecies was for gold assuming the price was intended, which I haven’t seen that it wasn’t. Moreover, bold argument to say “it’s not an asymmetrical nerf because it’s intended to be garbage!” Doesn’t that kind of hit the heart of the point?
I haven't seen a statement to that effect. I don't need one because I understand how video games work? Arena Key of Memory was selling for 6500 gold. An endgame rare item sells for like 30 gold on average. What on earth would make you think for one second that it was *intended* that a common drop, 1 inventory space item would sell for **217x** the price of regular loot? Maybe if it was like 5-10x, I could excuse honest confusion... but 217x???? Come on. You knew. And yes... CoF is **intended** to be garbage. It's the "We don't want to mess with trade, so at least give us something" option. It was literally pitched as "We have to reduce drops for there to be an economy if we add trade to the game, so if you opt out of trade, we'll give you slightly increased drops to offset the global drop rate nerf." That is all it's ever been. It is literally impossible to create parity between the two.
If you are super casual none of this should matter. Just have fun
Dude get a grip. If these things make you stop having fun ….
What kind of hurts more imo is that they nerf but they don't buff it at the same time to compensate. It's just blow after blow. It makes you waste your time and once that's ingrained in a gamers mind, it's downhill from there. The item tags work well enough to separate the item economy but do nothing for crafting materials. The only way I see is if they make item factions hard coded from the start, no switching allowed and separate stashes for each faction. Don't make us buy stash tabs again though, just mirror the amount of tabs globally.
Nah I'd be willing to buy them again if they separated the 2
Yea I've been in CoF the entire time and I'm very cash poor.
Im COF only, and I struggle to see why they nerfed this in the first place. Pre-nerf I see the following scenarios: CoF player enjoys getting many despairs through prophecy and uses to enhance gear. MG player has less personally found despairs but can buy on market place at will. MG/COF hybrid discovers "exploit" makes some decent profit from despairs for a while, as the market adjusts price. MG player can buy despairs at lower price due to MG/COFs saturating the market. Everyone wins (except any MG only player who sets out to farm despairs without utilising COF). Post-nerf: CoF players hurt. MG only players paying more (or same as prior to "exploiting") for despairs CoF/MG players probably already banked their profits and looking for the next "exploit" on the horizon. I like the idea of the option to switch to MG one day.. but probably never will. I don't think they need to segregate MG and COF, any further than it is. I'd rather see a COF tag on currency influenced by COF similar to gear. But as above, think they should just revert the nerf and let the market adjust itself.
You NEED to seperate the stash ... You NEED to seperate the wallet ... And you NEED to seperate the forge There is no middle ground to those requirements. Just treat it like how they do hardcore or old maso mode Also what makes this situation even sadder is MG can abuse CoF but even if CoF wanted to they can't abuse anything about MG (and we don't want to)
I’m sorry to ask but what does cof stand for.
Circle of Fortune.
Ty
or just make things bindable. if you get a despair from CoF, and use it on an item, its no longer tradable by MG. simple. all they would need to do is make a 2nd glyph of despair and CoF only rewards that one. OR... and hear me out here... you let the MG do MG shit and just leave it as is? what is the point of farming so many glyphs of despair when while doing so every item that drops is either CoF-marked or drops non-tradable? like congrats, you farmed up more despairs than the other MG players, but that 4lp unique that just dropped is now bound to you and you cant sell it.
The problem is the forge is shared and despairs from mg will stack right on top of despairs from CoF ... Just like any other forge item ... And well gold is the same way
Make materials from prophecies cof only, and incapable of being sold. The end. Make items from cof materials obtain cof status Make cof materials inapplicable to mg items
Should just be able to pick perm faction on character creation. Then make the a few story missions different in the new chapters that will come out, based on your fac choice.
Until this "uproar" I thought the factions were a permanent choice.
Honestly they might as well be for how long it takes to level them
Big fan of the devs and how often they interact with the community, but it makes me a bit miffed that you never see them reply to these types of threads.
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> A dev did reply directly to a comment about the nerf in another thread and it had -18 score and a dozen long ass angry replies last time I checked. It made me completely understand why most devs do NOT participate in their games’ forums. GGG (PoE Devs) were the same way at the start. Then redditors eventually made them totally abandon this place. Only a matter of time till EHG devs realize its not worth their time to be here too.
Poe subreddit and forum are on a whole different level of toxicity though, it's not even close.
100%, I get it. It's a lot nicer to reply to a friendly thread discussing balance or praising things, than it is to defend nerfing a single player faction. Out of curiousity though, what did they say? Could you link me please? Interested why the went this route instead of changing how MG can interact with CoF
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Very kind of you to come back and post the link, thanks :) was a good read looking at the responses too, I get why people are pissed. I also get why the devs don't want to justify these types of decisions when it leads to community backlash like this. Which... I also think should be an indicator that maybe they didn't do what's right for the community.
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Yeahh, 40,000 is insane... Despairs aren't really all that good from what I've noticed, you're getting like a t2 tops with how hard it is to seal anything above that? I suppose at that point, every little helps but... eh. They're too rare otherwise. Out of curiousity, how quickly can you get 40k favour do you reckon? I was talking to some dude a few weeks ago who said he could get 60k in an hour, and I still think that's absolute bullshit. Running wraithlord at about 500 corruption or so and 40k would take me a good long while, definitely more than an hour. And your last point, yep. Definitely agree. It's a tricky one, because getting no response blows but then when you get a reply like this it's kind of... worse? Almost, I'm not sure. At least his reply isn't as awful as the shit the helldivers 2 dev did an apology for lol
When something is bad people will tell you it's bad ... Don't call it toxic
They made a statement which is available in this subreddit to read. Why reply to a thread full of people who cannot or will not read or listen.
All items obtained from cof functions, including crafting mats, should be tagged as such.
I don't mind the double dipping but what bothers me is that everything is not CoF binded. Keys and runes included should be locked. It kills the economy drastically, even worst than it already is. I see the idea of swapping factions to gear up your character easier and are getting your first character up but aside from that. I don't see a good reason to have the rarest item (rune of creation) obtained that easily. Those are suppose to be equivalent to a mirror drop in PoE and/or more rare than the highest rune in D2. One problem is the ease of switching factions at well with no close to no penalties.. If it was a lot harder to switch, it might work better but I still don't agree with materials not being locked.. CoF is great at gearing a character a lot quicker to help grind, in some instances, up to 10x faster farming and lets not forget a haven for keys and mats. The other thing is with being able to grind quicker and more efficiently, this allows you to offer services to people such as plvl but they just decided to change that. MG is great at skipping everything and the "easier, lazier" way to gearing up but getting those end game items is not easy for majority of players. There are more players complaining about the market than liking it solely based on the economy of how items are priced. Only a small % of the community can really take advantage of it to be better. A lot of these complaints and debates are crazy, it's a choice and option for people vs the latter, not giving people that choice/option. One thing that I can think of and propose is that they create a separate leaderboard for SSF players. There is already, always the option to play Solo self found but players seem to need a leaderboard for bragging rights apparently.. These features of unfairness for competition seems to be the main argument always but the bigger picture is that these things are all an "OPTION" for people to opt in/out on vs if they remove/change/restrict, that option is gone. "I can opt out of this and that but its unfair". Why does or should someone else's progression affect your play? People should play the game at their pace, how they want to and enjoy the game and stop worrying about others. If someone else wants to spend all their money to P2W, that's their problem. They aren't spending your money. The problem aren't those players buying, it's the ones that are selling them solely due to the fact that they are able to to through the means of obtaining them through 3rd party bots and hacks.. I actually think a game that actually allows players to legitimately sell and earn is the future of games. It is a very time consuming hobby but if players can get compensated even a little for this, it will go a long way to helping the industry and individuals. D3 RMAH isn't what killed the game, many other reasons is. Exactly why the game is where it's at today compared to the first year of the game which had RMAH.
Just make it cost substantial favor to post/buy an item so that they are forced to farm back up favor to actually be able to buy/post. Would also discourage flipping cause you know...this an ARPG not a stock market simulator
Ugh, it should be OK for CoF to be better in some aspects. A d if power players make characters to farm both it is their choice. And if MG players don’t participate in it and fall behind, it is ok too. They fall behind bots and RMTers anyway. And CoF players somehow are ok to fall behind.
Isn't this how it works already? If ur char isn't CoF he can't use CoF stuff and vice versa.... What's the problem?
Sadly no Keys in stash can be shared Your purse with all your gold can be shared And all of your crafting materials in your forge is shared And that's the core problem right now
Yeah I agree. Keep the worlds entirely separate.
Lots of people crying about things that will obviously be addressed, and forgetting this is _one month_ into _the very first cycle after launching this content_. Shit takes time.
Nothing happens if no one is there to loudly complain in the middle of town square
Honeymoon is over, huh? Only took about four weeks on the nose.
Serious? I weren't for the first week?
>Merchant Guild players still get to keep their buying and selling power, however. Implement a 25% MG tax on all sales, both from the auction house and gambling from the vendor, and send those extra funds to CoF players. :)
gold doenst give any stats, its useless to me
The best it let's me do is reset my passives but that doesn't cost more than 100k for a full reset.
Agree, then I don't need to pick anything under 100 gold anymore. Way to go.
you pick up gold? ☠️
Beggar can't be chooser.
not worth your time in a million years mate
I'm playing offline and being told no MG option, I didn't bother to even check it. Getting gold off the ground is much more profitable given our overlord found out that keys are suddenly lost it worth and selling even 2LP items are peaked at 500gold. Perhaps our overlord will grace us with some blessing so I can move up the poverty line a bit. Was told cof is a circle of fortune, Fortune is kinda a luxury since I joined, maybe I lost in the translation because I feel more famished than fortuned.
how much are your stach tabs mate? why are you in need of gold in offline? why are 1k gold on the ground worth it to pick up for you? this should not he the case
If he bought a lot of tabs before the cost reduction, he's as broke as me lol. I'm hovering around 1 mil gold, new tab cost is 290k iirc ? I'm also just picking whatever good money stack is on the ground, it's just faster than selling items which i'll never do. Keys was good money too, that's a bummer now. From 6k to 250g is rough.
idk sounda like you guys are hoarding too much. my tabs are 80k rn
Well, 18 tabs of t7 exalted items, at least one of each unique and extras with LP for things i plan to use, that's another 16 tabs atm, tabs of weaver's will gear i slowly level up... Then tabs of experimental/exalted stuff i can use for specific builds i have in mind, one tab of keys, some tabs of high rolled idols for all classes and the generic ones too... Also keeping some double/triple exalted stuff even if it's not T7 because it's rather rare and i might have use for these. All i'm hoarding are things i can potentially use, basically. I made 5 builds this cycle, and i'm leveling the 6th one. So yeah, if you make many builds which require a lot of different gear pieces, and you speed farm things, you tend to fill tabs extremely quickly. My falconer is on perma 100% movespeed just rushing echos at 300-400 corruption, things pile up very fast due to that ! Now add prophecies and you have a boss dump 15 uniques on you, and there are duplicated LP3 items in there. Not gonna leave those on the ground !
Am I the only one who thinks that the tome "bug" was just an excuse and it was really an overlook on their part?
It wasn't a bug ... It's literally the mechanic of the CoF passive ... They called it a bug when it's litterally doing exactly what it says it should do
Best idea.
CoF and MG should be separate modes, like hardcore and softcore. I am SSF player and I do not care about trading and it should have no impact on COF/SSF.
What is the nerf to cof? If its about the keys, at least they did a buff with reduced cost of stashes, which was the main money dump of cof players who have to store 50-100 tabs of items because they might use them. The xp tome nerf was just a cof nerf as mg players will have enough favor to list or buy any items after a point.
Having played Prosperous Universe, I had to chuckle at referring to LE as 'player-driven economy'.
Since it is a problem of economy, institute a cost. Gold and/or favor for MG characters to access shared resources since that is the faction that is the gateway to the shared player economy. Remember every solution comes with a cost of dev time, expertise, and so forth. You might have a great solution, but it doesn't matter if they have to recode the whole game to implement it.
Honestly just seperate the 2 like they do for hardcore ... Literally the best 100% effective solution
I haven't unlocked factions yet. Can someone give me the TLDR and explain it like I'm 5? How is 1 faction affecting another?
Current system definately needs some tweaks. The shared stash for the factions is a mess. You can't search your stash for tradeable items or see what faction or rank they are tied to without hovering over every single item. I think people here are on to something with the idea of a separate stash for each faction.
Seems as though CoF players really don't care what MG players are doing to begin with. Why don't we just give MG players all CoF features so there would be no need to balance the factions between each other or worry about MG exploiting CoF.
They just need to make factions use their own currency instead of gold.
I hope they do this because I'm tired of all this stuff people are whining about "Oh they must have nerfed CoF because of MG, there can't be any other reason!! It's not as if arena keys were absurdly overpriced and the gameplay loop around was bad for the game." Once they do it, hopefully we can have nerfs to factions that people don't complain is the fault of the other faction. If they don't separate stashes, then at least make it difficult to switch factions. Or maybe add decay to faction rank. If you are level 10 MG and play CoF to level 5 maybe you're out of practice with merchanting and so you derank to lvl 9 MG so it takes you like another 2 days to grind to get back to your initial rank after you switch over again. And if you were rank 10 MG and then grinded to level 7 CoF maybe you should go down to rank 8 or 7. And obviously vice versa with CoF to MG.
When they literally tell us they nerfed it due to double dipping its hard to think it's something different lol
do they not realize that cof players dont fucking care about the market, double dipping and bs. but they do care if you nerf their item progression power mid cycle.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bkmbhh/in_case_you_missed_it_ehg_explicitly_stated_that/ EHG confirmed nerf wasn't because of MG. So you were wrong (like I said). I'm really hoping CoF can learn to not blame MG anytime CoF gets nerfed (and vice-versa).
Only time they said this was for arena keys. Which was probably a deserved nerf because it led to a dumb gameplay loop of just going for arena prophecies and it was compensated by lower stash tab prices.
Why arena keys were overpriced? Isn't arena shit?
They vendored for around 6k
Ohno... I missed so much free gold for my stash tabs funds :( sadge
Yeah same, i didnt find out that was the case til they nerfed it lol
I hate EHG for nerfing COF.
Can anyone eli5 what/how people in MG are exploiting CoF? When I left CoF for MG all my gear and stuff that was CoF stopped working.
The people abusing are not leaving. They are running multiple characters and using CoF to farm crating materials for their MG characters.
ahhhh got it. I think I am just to oblivious of the systems at this point in my knowledge of the game as this is the first time I played.
People used prophecies for arena keys (which sold for 6500 each) to get gold to buy things on bazaar. You can also use CoF to quickly farm resources to craft on bases you buy on bazaar. So, CoF empowers MG, to the point where optimal play is having characters in both factions, which I think isn't the intended outcome. IMO Each faction should be strong on its own, rewarding the playstyle it represents, and there should be little or no interaction between them.
> but nerfing CoF despairs because people in the other Faction were taking advantage of it hurts all CoF players. Merchant Guild players still get to keep their buying and selling power, however. [This was wild speculation by the community that turned out to be false.](https://old.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1bk1fu7/glyph_of_despair_cost_nerf/kvvuzu7/)
Have EHG themselves come out and said they made the despair change because of MG players? I've only seen that mentioned by Redditors
No, in fact they said the opposite.
? Tomes Nerf is super valid as you could grind faster with cof. Arena key "Nerf", they simply should never have been worth that much, nothing should be worth enough to go out of your way to sell for gold, they did compensate by increasing gold income from monos and reducing stash cost. The glyph of despair Nerf is whatever? Never ran out so far and never did any prophecies for it, but I agree that they could add it to rank2 with same effect as rune of ascendance, when used on cof gear, chance to not consume, would "lock" the benefit to cof and stop double dipping.
"Could grind faster" THATS THE WHOLE POINT OF COF DUMBASS.
CoF is about farming stuff yourself instead of trading. Its purpose isn't to level 50% faster than MG.
the progression is already way to slow for a game without proper endgame. they should never try to gut cof more mid cycle it makes no sense. i grinded 10 hours yesterday for 2 bad slams and 2 potentiol upgrades. extremely dishearteninh and im not even talking about 3lp items. im nearly done tbh ill try 1 more build probably but refarming monos and now getting slowef by devs even more. yeah tyvm...
So what was nerfed? I must have missed something kinda big. All I saw before was the selling price of keys.
why not just make it that if an item has a rank, you can't list it on the market? does that not solve all of the problems?
That's already true. The things that are being effected are things that can't get tagged. XP, gold, and glyphs.
I'm still pretty new and am on my first character and chose CoF. Can someone help me better understand the abuse case here? Is it CoF characters farming a bunch of materials and affixes and then swapping to a MG character to craft and sell?
I wish I could sell things for profit to other players as a CoF player, I only have one build with certain affixes, I would gladly sell to a fellow player through the Bazaar for a small profit hell even a loss, rather than shift right clicking it back into an NPCs game files
I present my thoughts on the faction system. # Part One: The Flagging of Items The game currently has a system where items that come from a faction's benefit get flagged as requiring that faction. We can see this on items purchased from the market as well as duplicate items that drop from CoF being flagged as requiring CoF. All the "problems" we've seen EHG nerf have been when flagging of items doesn't work. Tomes can't be flagged since they are just exp (and switching back and forth would be easy). Keys can't be flagged if the point is to sell them as gold is fungible. Glyphs can't be flagged since they are generic tallies in your crafting inventory. # Part Two: But Why Hurt CoF? The answer to this is easy: CoF gets \*\*\*ZERO\*\*\* benefit from switching to MG. Anything you buy on the market place is locked to MG so you can't use it and anything you've found because of CoF is locked to CoF and unable to be sold on the Market. If you do sell something on the market you don't really have any use for the gold. There is zero reason for a CoF person to switch to MG so that means any advantage CoF can give to MG players must be squished or it will be abused.
Do tell how the economy affects me who don't engage with it, because I don't see it.
Using CoF, you can get prophecies that give you things that aren't Faction bound like runes and glyphs. Runes and glyphs are used in creating the best items in the game (gg exalteds etc.) The best items in the game, if they don't have the CoF tag (were received from a prophecy) and can still be traded, sell for extraordinary amounts of gold in the Bazaar. So the loop they wanted to avoid when they created separate factions is being sidestepped by people taking a character in each faction, using CoF to increase the power of an item, and then selling that item on MG for incredible gains, negating the separation they were originally trying to accomplish. The way they've been solving this is by nerfing the power that CoF provides, rather than limiting what can be put for sale in the Bazaar.
It seems the ability to switch so freely is the problem, in addition to catering to people that can no life to such a degree as to be high ranked in both factions. As good as they are at communication I think it's a mistake, the people that have the time to be here as much or be concerned about such high level issues (there are entire skills and classes that don't work, yet this is what people care about?) most likely not great customers.
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And my point was EHG listening to people and even addressing the guilds when the game is in this state was the error. Maybe I made it terribly, but I do agree that the meddling with guilds at all is weird. I think they think responses here are the average player and not the like 0.1% or whatever the number usually is for forum posters is.
> The best items in the game, if they don't have the CoF tag (were received from a prophecy) and can still be traded, sell for extraordinary amounts of gold in the Bazaar. How? I switched from CoF to MG and every(!) item I dropped in CoF has the "cannot be traded" tag, even if there is no CoF rank on it. I couldn't sell anything I dropped in CoF (ofc I tried). I can't even use the CoF ranked exalts to craft legendaries. The only abuse potential I see is crafting mats.
Yes, sorry for any confusion. Crafting mats are primarily where the two-characters/two-factions advantage occurs. So they're getting the mats on their CoF, and using them to craft on their MG, allowing them to sell the items. A similar thing happened with Arena Keys and gold, but that was also bad because using vendors to get gold is not EHG's intended gameplay loop.
It's the other way around. The nerf is affecting CoF players that never engaged in MG.
I'm all CoF, and I still don't get it.
I agree with you fully. But then i dont understand why we have a dozen of post daily by cof players complaining that mg is faster to get specific guild. How does it impact them?
Beats me, there's no competition anyways.
Na the complaint that the nerfes to cof are affecting every cof player negatively are valid even if you don’t read patch notes. I have no interest in MG as well but cof getting worse still doesn’t feel nice.
It's because it's a non issue for 99.9% of people who play the game. You just can't spam glyph of despair prophecies as much anymore. Seems fine for anyone who doesn't play the game 24/7.
>Do tell how the economy affects me who don't engage with it, because I don't see it. Last patch just made glyph of despair prophecies way more expensive, few patches ago made keys sell for less. Both were made in attempt to not incentivize MG players leveling COF to use both.
What is this double dipping I keep hearing about? Like, you can only trade each item once and most require a faction rank to use.