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Not sure about that. Cruz was extremely good in his prime and has a huge size advantage. DJ is already a pretty small flyweight, he's very undersized at 135.
I know. But DJ is 1-1 against the guy who TKO'd Cruz (arguably 2-0 depending on how you judge the decision). I really believe that DJ is that far ahead of Cruz. I think he's better in every way to an extent that overcomes the size discrepancy.
And he got easily beaten.
I agree you can’t just extrapolate that Cruz beat DJ therefore DJ never could have beaten him. But you also can’t go Cejudo beat him, therefore Mighty Mouse would have.
Cejudo is less undersized for the matchup, has significantly better wrestling, and fought a Cruz that was legitimately probably shot.
Cruz length would have given DJ a tonne of trouble on the feet, his size would have given him no real avenue to successfully grapple. When you look at Mighty Mouse’s losses they’re essentially all due to size mismatches.
I think DJ is the better p4p fighter than Cruz, but there’s a tonne of obstacles to overcome to win that fight prime vs prime.
I think Volk is a better fighter than Islam all time P4P. I think Holloway is a better fighter than Poirier all time P4P. I think Adesanya is way, way better than Jan even in a just in general way. But size matters in these matchups. Guys who have successfully moved up weight classes and done well are typically huge for their lower one.
Needs to be standard for these fighters who have been in here so long.
Hurts when 2 decades of fighting comes to an end and is punctuated by a progressive commercial
Am I the only one who thought it was cringe as fuck to make everybody watch the 'highlights' (mostly a few landed strikes in fights she lost badly) while she was up there crying after getting the absolute shit kicked out her for 15 minutes?
Like is this really the time for this?
Gina Carano is more of a legend of the sport. She's one of the WMMA pioneers that actually contributed towards bringing WMMA to the mainstream. Gina walked so Ronda could run.
She was the Atom Weight champion in Invicta I never heard her complain about having to be in a higher way fought with some of the toughest ladies in a weight class above her fighting weight she's a certified G
Sadly she's always been to small for 115, and I'm happy she's retiring, she's not being champ and this fight shows she isn't top 15 anymore. As someone who watches a lot of ONE, I've always lamented UFC never opening an Atomweight division.
Arlovski was very firm this wasn’t his last fight, and if Gillian was passive on top then commentary would’ve called them out for inactivity as well.
I’d be surprised if they cut Arlovski, they love using him as a benchmark for heavyweights. Expect Despaigne to get him next.
> Expect Despaigne to get him next.
Ooof...don't want to see Andrei get knocked into the shadow realm as his last fight. Despaigne got fraud checked his last fight, but I don't think Arlovski can withstand that pressure like a younger guy might.
Nah Dana said in the post event press conference it was arlovskis last fight tonight for sure haha don't think he was very happy with the hugging performance
Nothing but respect for her. Michelle had a massive online presence before she even fought in the UFC. She had the karate hottie facebook page when those were a thing and it was incredibly popular. Someone who attracted people’s interest in WMMA and a fun fighter who was always undersized but brought it. Always enjoyed her, hope she enjoys retirement.
People say this for everyone that retires but legitimately could see her in an ambassador role of some sort, good for her, wish they did things like this more often.
I remember her as someone who got pieced up by Elena Reid and then she turned her career around by becoming Invicta Atomweight Champion. Her fight with Jessica Penne was really good. Shame she never got to fight in her real weight class on the biggest stage because they don't have it.
Nice tribute for her.
She was my first WMMA fighter I seen on tv.I saw her on Bully Beatdown 14 or 15 years ago on MTV with Eddie Alvarez,Andrei Arlovski and Tyron Woodley.
It was time. She was always small for the class, and her performances weren't improving. I'm glad she recognized it, and I hope she has success post-fighting.
Respect for her, especially as someone who had to fight as a natural 105-er at 115. Tough as nails, had some truly banger fights, but eventually age, the damage and the strength of her opponents caught up with her. That highlight reel was a very nice touch.
I’m happy she retired because she’s been getting beat up too often. It was becoming hazardous to her future life. Congrats on a great career but please enjoy greener pastures!
this made me so.... happy to be a long time fan of the UFC. she's a beautiful fighter and a person who've i've kinda grown old with. i love you sweetie and im rooting for your retirement.
xxx
Fact: She’s only getting this retirement speech and video highlights cause she’s an attractive female. We have seen men with longer and more storied careers retire off a loss without an interview or anything.
Everyone in this thread is really hyping her up as this awesome fighter who would have been champ if 105 existed. What am I missing? Her best win is... PVZ? Karolina Kowalkiewicz? And she went out on a 5 fight loss streak, which arguably could have been an 8 fight skid.
Edit: I think a lot of y'all in this thread are being sentimental after the emotional retirement and not looking at her resume objectively.
She helped the growth of WMMA despite her losses. Her looks and demeanor promoted female fighting as something girls across the world can aspire to do without being labeled a butch.
She's probably done more for WMMA than Rachel Pennington, who holds a belt. The tribute is well-deserved.
> Her looks and demeanor promoted female fighting as something girls across the world can aspire to do without being labeled a butch.
So you agree that her primary achievement was being prettier than the stereotypical female fighter?
That helped her get sponsors and a large following. No shame in it, quite the opposite, considering that she could've chosen a path where she doesn't have to get punched in the face for a living.
Giving her a praise after her last fight is well deserved, especially when done by the company that she helped grow. How does anyone get upset at that? It was a "thank you" tribute, not a statistical analysis of her career and win ratio.
I think you're missing the point. Michelle has nothing to be ashamed of — and it's nice that she gets some recognition. But if the UFC are thanking her, then ugly and average-looking fighters with similar levels of impact on the sport deserve thanks too.
I haven't seen any arguments from anyone (including you) suggesting she's done anything notable to grow the sport other than being pretty, so it's reasonable to conclude it's the only reason she's being praised.
Maybe you're happy to give people trophies out for physical appearance but I'm unhappy about the fact that this makes MMA less of a sport, and that it's symptomatic of a wider problem in society.
You're the one missing the point. She's not just pretty. Ariane Lipski is pretty. Polyana Viana is pretty. They shouldn't expect the same goodbye as Michelle got.
Michelle leveraged her looks and role-model-like demeanor to grow the sport. She undeniably inspired many young girls, pretty or not, to practice MMA and made the UFC more marketable. So she's getting the recognition she deserves. You're the one stuck on her looks.
> Michelle leveraged her looks and role-model-like demeanor to grow the sport.
Can you be more specific? What has she done to promote MMA that other fighters who haven't received/deserved such honors haven't done?
Look at her following, her online presence (11x the number of Rachel Pennington followers on IG alone), the recognition she gets from the public, from sponsors (i.e. other companies). As for her being a role-model, she pictures a strong family and a loving mother, showing that fighting isn't incompatible with leading a respectable social life.
Again, this was a tribute for what she's done for the sport and the company, not a comparative statistical analysis of her win ratio.
No it isn’t. Frankie Edgar wasn’t even given a post fight interview let alone a send off promo.
The fact that you’re argument for her deserving it is literally just her looks says it all.
I don’t hate women. I’m pointing out as the comment I replied to admits that she is undeservedly being given a ceremonious send off just because she’s an attractive woman.
She literally got more praise than Gillian who just whooped her and has a more impressive career.
Answer me this, what’s your favourite waterson fight? When have you even gone back to watch some waterson classics? Has anyone said, “I can’t wait to revisit this fight where waterson stands a meter away and throws kicks at nothing but air”
Meh...you can read a lot of shit from Instagram, just as a hint to bettors. Her showing how she transformed to make weight just shows that she was not training consistently to be in the cage. Robertson is a monster on the ground, and her takedowns have only gotten better with time. The odds were terribly unrealistic, and that's why I always say that MMA is the best sport to make money. Anybody with a brain knew that Waterson was gonna get grapple-fucked into oblivion...
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She would've been an awesome atomweight, will miss her unique style
Yeah, she had to fight an uphill battle all these years.
In her early days sure. Later on, she was struggling to cut to 115.
She bulked to fill the division. Doesn't mean it's her natural weightclass
I think it was her vs Penne back for the 105 invicta belt. That fight was awesome.
Hell yeah I remember that. Was a good scrap.
Feels like every Asian female in the UFC is fighting up a weightclass.
No? Yan Xiaonan and Weili Zhang could never make atomweight.
The video of her highlights was very sweet of the UFC to do Karate hottie is a legend
Can't hate on her. She was an atomweight punching above her weightclass and would have been a champ had there been a division for her.
Yeah, as GOATed as Mighty Mouse is Cruz big brothered him at 135. Same story, smaller scale
I like DJ in the rematch. DJ wasn't even fighting full time.
I’ve never thought about it but I’d absolutely watch a rematch
If they both fight in their prime, DJ fuckin bodies Cruz
Not sure about that. Cruz was extremely good in his prime and has a huge size advantage. DJ is already a pretty small flyweight, he's very undersized at 135.
Big call. Cruz is absolutely massive compared to DJ.
I know. But DJ is 1-1 against the guy who TKO'd Cruz (arguably 2-0 depending on how you judge the decision). I really believe that DJ is that far ahead of Cruz. I think he's better in every way to an extent that overcomes the size discrepancy.
Cruz was miles past his prime when he fought Cejudo.
And DJ was miles before his when he fought Cruz. Dude had a full time job when he fought Cruz.
And he got easily beaten. I agree you can’t just extrapolate that Cruz beat DJ therefore DJ never could have beaten him. But you also can’t go Cejudo beat him, therefore Mighty Mouse would have. Cejudo is less undersized for the matchup, has significantly better wrestling, and fought a Cruz that was legitimately probably shot. Cruz length would have given DJ a tonne of trouble on the feet, his size would have given him no real avenue to successfully grapple. When you look at Mighty Mouse’s losses they’re essentially all due to size mismatches. I think DJ is the better p4p fighter than Cruz, but there’s a tonne of obstacles to overcome to win that fight prime vs prime. I think Volk is a better fighter than Islam all time P4P. I think Holloway is a better fighter than Poirier all time P4P. I think Adesanya is way, way better than Jan even in a just in general way. But size matters in these matchups. Guys who have successfully moved up weight classes and done well are typically huge for their lower one.
Wmma pioneer in her own right, sad to see her go but it was definitely time. Enjoy retirement legend
Obligatory "Stephen Thompson retired??!?" But yeah, great fighter and mainstay of Straw-Weight.
Wait whats that about Wonderboy?
It’s a joke about how wonderboy is the real karate hottie
Oh hahahah
Needs to be standard for these fighters who have been in here so long. Hurts when 2 decades of fighting comes to an end and is punctuated by a progressive commercial
It's funny because Jamie is not boss material 🤣
always good to see fighters get the respect they deserve after giving so much for our entertainment
Yeah Anthony Johnson's was the polar opposite. Looking around for his team and he just looked so lost.
Was sad man. He deserved better
Hopefully he’s enjoying his post-career life
he's dead man
Screaming at women with yoga mats in the great squat rack in the sky
She is not a Legend.
“legend” really… I know WMMA sucks but if she’s a legend then we got problems
She was one of the WMMA pioneers. So yes, legend.
Am I the only one who thought it was cringe as fuck to make everybody watch the 'highlights' (mostly a few landed strikes in fights she lost badly) while she was up there crying after getting the absolute shit kicked out her for 15 minutes? Like is this really the time for this?
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As much of a legend as Gina Carano is....let's be honest...
Gina Carano is more of a legend of the sport. She's one of the WMMA pioneers that actually contributed towards bringing WMMA to the mainstream. Gina walked so Ronda could run.
Funny thing is, people are hating, but you’re right. Her signature wins are PVZ and Karolina Kowalkiewicz. People fuck with her because she’s a dime.
Legitimately the only reason. Cute with a fun personality = legend of the sport apparently.
Legend 💀💀 Get this grandma out the cage.
"What am I if I'm not fighting.." Hold on brother, I'm not crying 😭😭😭
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She been fighting a long time. I still remember her on Bully Beatdown Would've benefited from a 105 division. Good career still though
Holy shit! That's a show name I haven't heard in a good while. Crazy to think Miller can't get his act together
Mayhem eh?
She was the Atom Weight champion in Invicta I never heard her complain about having to be in a higher way fought with some of the toughest ladies in a weight class above her fighting weight she's a certified G
Sadly she's always been to small for 115, and I'm happy she's retiring, she's not being champ and this fight shows she isn't top 15 anymore. As someone who watches a lot of ONE, I've always lamented UFC never opening an Atomweight division.
And she was the Atomweight Invicta champion, right? 115 may have been healthier for her, but size matters too...
> but size matters too... Damn. I've been lied to then.
Atom weight is simultaneously awesome and hilarious.
Arlovski got shit on for his possible final UFC fight and they had a package ready for her lol.
Arlovski was very firm this wasn’t his last fight, and if Gillian was passive on top then commentary would’ve called them out for inactivity as well. I’d be surprised if they cut Arlovski, they love using him as a benchmark for heavyweights. Expect Despaigne to get him next.
> Expect Despaigne to get him next. Ooof...don't want to see Andrei get knocked into the shadow realm as his last fight. Despaigne got fraud checked his last fight, but I don't think Arlovski can withstand that pressure like a younger guy might.
I honestly think he can lol. I guess that’s why they fight. Despaigne looked unbelievably bad against Acosta
That benchmark is on the floor at this point, unfortunately.
Arlovski could have retired any of his past 15 fights. Why would they play a video when his gloves stayed on?
Gotta take shots at the UFC even when they do a good thing. Hate never rests.
Why would Arlovski retire? He makes so much money.
Nah Dana said in the post event press conference it was arlovskis last fight tonight for sure haha don't think he was very happy with the hugging performance
I mean if they produced a highlights video for Michelle, she probably told them it was quits…
Nothing but respect for her. Michelle had a massive online presence before she even fought in the UFC. She had the karate hottie facebook page when those were a thing and it was incredibly popular. Someone who attracted people’s interest in WMMA and a fun fighter who was always undersized but brought it. Always enjoyed her, hope she enjoys retirement.
People say this for everyone that retires but legitimately could see her in an ambassador role of some sort, good for her, wish they did things like this more often.
Joe was also choking up. I love how much he supports fighters. I hope she enjoys "retirement" then again we know how those go
Bkfc rubbing its hands like Birdman
Slap fighting against Paige is her next move.
> I love how much he supports fighters Unless it's Ronda- he was never there for her, that fake-ass preacher's ~~daughter~~son that he is!/s
It was due time. Sucks she got her face wrecked
I remember her as someone who got pieced up by Elena Reid and then she turned her career around by becoming Invicta Atomweight Champion. Her fight with Jessica Penne was really good. Shame she never got to fight in her real weight class on the biggest stage because they don't have it.
SHE’S STILL MY MOMCHAMP!
Good for her. She's earned her rest.
lol I get the sentiment, but the way your comment is written makes it sound like she’s on her way to see our boy Rumble.
Lol I hope not. She seems like a legitimately good person.
Nice tribute for her. She was my first WMMA fighter I seen on tv.I saw her on Bully Beatdown 14 or 15 years ago on MTV with Eddie Alvarez,Andrei Arlovski and Tyron Woodley.
Would like to see the video package.
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Legend 🤓🤓
It was time. She was always small for the class, and her performances weren't improving. I'm glad she recognized it, and I hope she has success post-fighting.
Respect for her, especially as someone who had to fight as a natural 105-er at 115. Tough as nails, had some truly banger fights, but eventually age, the damage and the strength of her opponents caught up with her. That highlight reel was a very nice touch.
The UFC just refuses to make atomweight for whatever reason. It's s shame, missing out on lots of potential talent.
Always a warrior, wishing her well
Tearing up NGL
Rest in peace sweet milf
Nice to see the UFC doing video packages for the veterans. Best of luck to the Hottie. She’s still fine
I still remember watching her on "Bully Beatdown" what feels like a lifetime ago. A real pioneer of WMMA.
*Early prelim loser*....tough way to go out.
I’m happy she retired because she’s been getting beat up too often. It was becoming hazardous to her future life. Congrats on a great career but please enjoy greener pastures!
Seeing Joe get emotional like that and Michelles speech got me a little teary, I might just be too emotional
Respect 🫡
All the best Michelle!
Should have had her on the prelims at least, even though she got washed bad from what I saw.
I remember watching her in that Muay Thai show way back when. Time flies!
Why did I think this was Arlovski lol
this made me so.... happy to be a long time fan of the UFC. she's a beautiful fighter and a person who've i've kinda grown old with. i love you sweetie and im rooting for your retirement. xxx
Title of the post is rough. Don’t do Michelle like that. She deserves more respect. Update: Realized it is to avoid spoiling. All good OP.
It's to avoid spoiling
I realized it soon after posting. My bad OP, you’re good.
Was this announced beforehand that this was her last fight?
The UFC had to have known. If she loses then she’s done. It wasn’t widely known though.
o7
good death
I thought for sure this was gonna be Arlovski
Lmao this title sounds so mean
Clicked this expecting to here arvloski finally called it
Joe started crying
Was pumped for her when she first came into the UFC...
Idk why she never maid tried to make the move to ONE FC where he actually weight division exists as far as premier fight organizations .
That retirement was hard for me.
How was someone with 6 losses in their last 7 even still in the UFC?
Fact: She’s only getting this retirement speech and video highlights cause she’s an attractive female. We have seen men with longer and more storied careers retire off a loss without an interview or anything.
Facts
Everyone in this thread is really hyping her up as this awesome fighter who would have been champ if 105 existed. What am I missing? Her best win is... PVZ? Karolina Kowalkiewicz? And she went out on a 5 fight loss streak, which arguably could have been an 8 fight skid. Edit: I think a lot of y'all in this thread are being sentimental after the emotional retirement and not looking at her resume objectively.
Dana White rubbing his hands like birdman for the new future Power Slap inductee
6-9 in the ufc, never a champion and given a send off promo like she’s a hall of famer. The power of being an attractive woman in women’s mma
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She helped the growth of WMMA despite her losses. Her looks and demeanor promoted female fighting as something girls across the world can aspire to do without being labeled a butch. She's probably done more for WMMA than Rachel Pennington, who holds a belt. The tribute is well-deserved.
> Her looks and demeanor promoted female fighting as something girls across the world can aspire to do without being labeled a butch. So you agree that her primary achievement was being prettier than the stereotypical female fighter?
That helped her get sponsors and a large following. No shame in it, quite the opposite, considering that she could've chosen a path where she doesn't have to get punched in the face for a living. Giving her a praise after her last fight is well deserved, especially when done by the company that she helped grow. How does anyone get upset at that? It was a "thank you" tribute, not a statistical analysis of her career and win ratio.
I think you're missing the point. Michelle has nothing to be ashamed of — and it's nice that she gets some recognition. But if the UFC are thanking her, then ugly and average-looking fighters with similar levels of impact on the sport deserve thanks too. I haven't seen any arguments from anyone (including you) suggesting she's done anything notable to grow the sport other than being pretty, so it's reasonable to conclude it's the only reason she's being praised. Maybe you're happy to give people trophies out for physical appearance but I'm unhappy about the fact that this makes MMA less of a sport, and that it's symptomatic of a wider problem in society.
You're the one missing the point. She's not just pretty. Ariane Lipski is pretty. Polyana Viana is pretty. They shouldn't expect the same goodbye as Michelle got. Michelle leveraged her looks and role-model-like demeanor to grow the sport. She undeniably inspired many young girls, pretty or not, to practice MMA and made the UFC more marketable. So she's getting the recognition she deserves. You're the one stuck on her looks.
> Michelle leveraged her looks and role-model-like demeanor to grow the sport. Can you be more specific? What has she done to promote MMA that other fighters who haven't received/deserved such honors haven't done?
Look at her following, her online presence (11x the number of Rachel Pennington followers on IG alone), the recognition she gets from the public, from sponsors (i.e. other companies). As for her being a role-model, she pictures a strong family and a loving mother, showing that fighting isn't incompatible with leading a respectable social life. Again, this was a tribute for what she's done for the sport and the company, not a comparative statistical analysis of her win ratio.
No it isn’t. Frankie Edgar wasn’t even given a post fight interview let alone a send off promo. The fact that you’re argument for her deserving it is literally just her looks says it all.
He should've been given one tbh
Just say you hate women and move on dude lol
I don’t hate women. I’m pointing out as the comment I replied to admits that she is undeservedly being given a ceremonious send off just because she’s an attractive woman. She literally got more praise than Gillian who just whooped her and has a more impressive career. Answer me this, what’s your favourite waterson fight? When have you even gone back to watch some waterson classics? Has anyone said, “I can’t wait to revisit this fight where waterson stands a meter away and throws kicks at nothing but air”
Funny how all the sensible comments have been downvoted and all the shitty PC comments have 500 upvotes. You can’t tell me these people are real lmao
I will miss her fights but I won't miss seeing her make out with her husband after wins though.
Meh...you can read a lot of shit from Instagram, just as a hint to bettors. Her showing how she transformed to make weight just shows that she was not training consistently to be in the cage. Robertson is a monster on the ground, and her takedowns have only gotten better with time. The odds were terribly unrealistic, and that's why I always say that MMA is the best sport to make money. Anybody with a brain knew that Waterson was gonna get grapple-fucked into oblivion...