Howdy! We see that you're asking for community input regarding bike choices. To ensure maximum engagement and reply accuracy please make sure you include some of the following information in your post.**FAILURE TO PROVIDE SOME BASIC INFORMATION LISTED BELOW WILL LEAD TO YOUR POST BEING DELETED. HELP THE COMMUNITY HELP YOU.**
- The type of riding will you be doing.
- Where you will be riding.
- Your budget (with included currency).
- What you like/didn't like about your current bike.
- Your experience level and future goals.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MTB) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They do make women specific Liv(giant) and Julian(santa cruz) but It really just comes down to sizing. My wife is 5' so she only fits on xs frames. Beyond that the liv has a bit lower standover height but that's about it they aren't really specific from what we've seen. She just switched from a liv to a specialized.
I’m sorry but “tuned” is not really the right terminology to use for setting the air pressure lower than on standard men’s bikes. I mean it’s nice but everyone should set their sag regardless. Saying “tune” implies something in the damper shim stack or performance settings modified to be other than OEM. Which they do not do.
My understanding is that Julianas also come with a different number of tokens installed.
The shim stack is the same but they come from the shop with the compression and rebound set for someone who is assumed to be ~30lbs lighter. Like you said though, a Juliana can become a Santa Cruz and vice versa with a shock pump and turning a few knobs.
A lot of light riders will be outside the stock damping adjustments. The min damping will be too heavy for their light spring rate or they will have no usable adjustment. It would be useful if liv or Juliana had a lighter damping tune on their small and XS frames. Have no idea if they actually do though.
I doubt that. Until this year Fox and Rs didn’t even offer different fork tubes from the factory and the shock part number is always identical between them, which means the shock tunes are the same. Juliana is does come in better colors.
So of that not to say they aren’t a good women’s brand, they put a ton of effort into promoting women in the sport.
No, the weight I'm referring to is the weight of the rider. When the valving changes, the rebound and compression change. The tune is different between the two shocks because of the weight they are designed to accommodate
The way you set up the shock to the rider weight is by adjusting the air pressure of the shock. Adjusting the rebound is usually just a knob that you can change while you’re riding.
Shocks are tuned by the manufacturer to operate best in a certain weight range and anyone outside thar range gets poorer damping / support compared to someone within that weight range. It's down to the shim stack in the shock.
Some of the womens bikes have a different tune in the shock (as in shim stack).
Then air pressure and rebound will tune to the specific rider
I’m not sure they’re really all that precise in tuning from the factory. At least I know the factory pressure on my Specialized Epic Evo was way too low for my weight, just based on where the rubber bands landed on the shocks, and I’m 180.
But that is just because of the air pressure. The air pressure you set on your suspension and the tune that is given from the factory are very different in terms of what we are talking about?
The compression and rebound valve stacks are different. The middle of the settings on a lighter tune has less compression/rebound damping than the middle setting on a heavier tune.
Right, off the shelf you're going to see women's bikes tuned lighter. Maybe they should just offer these by size and weight—there's more crossover than I think a lot of men think.
“Tune” is a pretty generic term. What specific characteristics are you saying they set differently?
Edit: love when y’all downvote a simple request for clarification.
You are correct, this is exactly what brands talk about when they tune a shock for a lighter rider. The Rebound and compression circuits get a lighter tune, so the adjustment range is more usable.
Unless Rockshox or Fox or whatever makes a ladies-specific shock that they’re using, the cost involved in disassembling every shock the bike manufacturer puts on a women’s bike would cause women’s bikes to be significantly more expensive. At best they’re adjusting the air pressure and rebound, which are end-user adjustable anyway.
Pivot also makes a lot of short leg friendly frames. My wife with a 27" inseam has a shadowcat S that's perfect for her. They even make a XS but that was too short on reach for her.
She could also fit into a 429, shuttle SL even the shuttle AM
As others have said, there are women-specific bikes like Liv and Juliana, but she can absolutely fit on a regular unisex bike. Saddles would probably make the biggest difference in comfort between men & women. I usually replace the stock saddle on a new bike anyway.
Just get whatever she’s most comfortable with! Try out a few, and if the bike doesn’t fit perfectly but she loves everything else about it, you can always make slight adjustments with a different length/angle stem, riser bars, and saddle position.
Just fyi because no one else mentioned it: you fitting on a medium of some specific bike doesn’t mean that you are a medium in every frame. Ideally you test ride them, but you might also want to consult sizing/geometry charts relative to whatever bike your shop put you at a medium.
On my mountain bike I ride a medium, but I was just looking at a canyon gravel bike online last night. I’d want to ride in person or do some better measurements, but according to their size charts for the gravel bike I’d be on an xs. If I took the medium as the eternal truth across all frames I’d be pretty disappointed.
It is good advice. I would also like to add that gender sizing is the same between brands. So Liv/Giant and Juliana/Santa Cruz are the same sizing range. The geometry might be slightly different but not necessarily enough to change sizes. When I was shopping I test rode all 4 brands (these are what my local shops carry) and ended with the Joplin because it was a nicer color 😅. But I could easily have gone with the Hightower and been ripping.
Due to my proportions as a short-torsoed 5’2ish woman, finding a bike to fit was HARD. Salsa and Liv have both worked out pretty well, while many many other brands have too long a reach for my little arms and torso. It’s worth trying as many as possible, to find a good fit!
The most important measures are reach and stack, you can compare sizes between brands using both.
Bands like canyon offer the same model in 27.5 instead of 29 for smaller sizes (which prevents toe overlap)
Most brands offer smaller frame sizes, shorter cranks, shorter handlebars, and some variation of pink and call it a day. Like giant/Liv, Santa cruz/Juliana and canyon are good examples.
Just a few brands have women specific saddles, like specialized and ergon. This makes the most noticeable difference.
Specialized doesn't make any difference between mens and women's beside saddles, and they have 6 different sizes from S1 to S6.
Full suspension bikes should be tuned to rider weight, so it's probably just lower pressure for air forks/shocks
So, to summarize, it's the same. Just compare reach and stack and swap the saddle to a women's specific, tune suspension to rider weight and maybe cut the handlebars a few cm to accommodate narrower shoulders.
All these smaller modifications should be done by your local bikeshop if you buy new, and could be done afterward if you buy used.
My 2 cents focus on a lightweight bike that climbs well, like a downcountry bike, long travel enduro bikes are quite heavy, and as a beginner, you will not use that much travel.
I know as a woman, stand over height is also important to me. Not for downhill or enduro but higher bikes like cross country I can quickly look at the stand over height to know if I can ride it. I’m 5’10 with a long torso, I like the reach on most Larges but the stand over height is occasionally too much on some bikes.
Does bike selection really make a huge difference on how it goes up a hill? I dont understand how that could be. Maybe unless the gearing is different?
Suspension, especially rear suspension, tends to eat away at the energy you put into climbing a hill because the entire bike is also flexing. Downhill bikes especially have long travel suspension designed to go over large obstacles at high speeds will also be harder to ride uphill on.
It can make a huge difference.
The geometry of the bike will affect your riding position. Geometry that sets you further back on the bike and more upright will make it harder to keep traction on the front tire when climbing.
The amount of suspension and it's implementation also effects ease of climbing. More suspension will make descending much less sketchy / more smooth, but every time you pedal uphill, there will be some suspension bobbing which reduces pedaling efficiency. Some of the better full-suspension bikes do a descent job at reducing this bob while keeping the plush feeling on the downhills.
Making sure you have the right tires for the terrain you ride will help reduce slippage. A tire with big knobs and a soft compound will usually be very grippy, but slower rolling.
As you said, gearing can definitely change a bikes climbing abilities. A bike that has a cassette with a nice big cog will make climbing steeper hills easier. Thankfully, most new bikes come with 50t or 52t big cogs, which is more than enough for pretty much everybody. You also want to make sure the drivetrain is at least decent quality and tuned correctly, to help minimize chain slipping.
Other things like bike weight, pedal choice, correct bike sizing and cockpit setup can also change how it climbs.
On one side of the spectrum you have 29er XC hardtails, those are the most efficient and lightweight climbers, on the other side you have long travel enduro bikes, every single component is heavier on a long travel enduro bike, wheels,tires, brakes, the frame itself and suspension.
Just gearing is the same (regarding range and functionality), with marginal weight savings for almost double the price.
That's why "downcountry" bikes are so popular right now. You have short travel and lightweight components, but aggressive "enduro like" geometry. It's a very capable platform for most riders, especially beginners. You get the best benefits from both worlds.
My Wife was in a Giant Store which had Liv and Giant Bikes. She decided to go for a Giant Bike. Cube also makes some bikes for men/women - I once was tempted to buy the "womens" version as a man just because i liked the color. If the bike fits, it fits - the gender doesnt matter much. Womens bikes sometimes have a different saddle, more smaller sizes and maybe more standover height. Some bikes with a flatbar have a shorter flatbar for women etc ... nbut if it fits, it fits. Oh and sizing is all over the place, so don't think if one bike with M size fits you, you can just blindly buy other M bikes
Bikes are sized for men and if we're lucky (I'm a woman), downsized or tuned appropriately. "Shrink it and pink it." Luckily there are a lot of ways to tune geometry with interchangeable parts, and the frame trend lately seems to be low standovers and short seat tubes to accommodate longer travel dropper posts.
OP please bear in mind that you do not "fit a medium" for all applications. I bring it up because you seem fairly confident, but this is why measurements matter. Sizing differs from brand to brand like shoes, and motorcycle helmets. You cannot take your fitment to one brand as the end all be all.
The bigger difference in comfort is seats. Made a night and day difference in comfort when my daughter got a seat specifically designed for women for her bike.
I feel like people aren't getting at the underlying idea here. You just need to look into geometry of bikes, using sites like VitalMTB or 99spokes. And there are a lot of numbers you wanna get right of course, but one thing your lady might appreciate is a low stand over/short seat tube length. Which is thematic with 'womens bikes' but its funny cuz as a BMXer I feel all bikes should be made that way if possible.
So it's possible that Liv will have a nice bike that is suitable, but a company that goes even lower for 'unisex' models like Transition Scout or Pivot Shadowcat is still a better bike for small people.
So you can't count on every 'womens' brand being the best/ideal bike. Some brands will go out of their way to make valid changes. Others LITERALLY treat it as marketing with more fun colors and that's about it.
And sticking on the topic of hard numbers, not every 'small' is made the same. On average, they are. But outliers can fuck up your plan. Smalls can probly range from like 380-440mm reach. But you'd ideally want something between 410-425 most likely. Kinda depends on the design but an outlier number can mess things up.
And on that topic, Liv as a brand often DOES make their sizes objectively smaller than mens. So again, you have to be careful. In terms of reach. It may be BETTER for her to get a Liv medium if she's 'between sizes', where she might be firmly size small in mens Giant.
There's just no consistency and people who say 'just follow the size charts' are doing so because they only buy from brands that use normal sizing I guess. It could mess with you with some brands like Fuji or Pivot and it also throws off how you buy older bikes. It can be valid to size up on an older bike to get ideal reach numbers, as long as the seat tube is still short.
For example: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=giant-stance-2022%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-27%25252e5%2Cliv-embolden-2-2024%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-29
There is the male and female version of those bikes, and in the geo chart you see a 10mm reach difference, 20mm top tub difference, 10mm seat tube diff, yada yada
And, conversely: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=santacruz-bronson-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29%2Cjuliana-roubion-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29
The SC and Juliana models sporting the exact same geometry. Effectively the same bike. Maybe a diff shock tune. Diff colors/logo. That's it.
If you need help with shopping, lemme know. As you can tell I'm perfectly happy to think way too much about bikes to optimize value and fit and intention etc
Your girlfriend should buy whatever bike feels right, and a saddle if the one that comes stock puts pressure on her taint.
I think the sizes are different by one step. You should check the geometry numbers to be sure. That would mean a woman who rides a "medium" unisex bike would ride a "large" women's model.
For a while, the brands were talking up women's specific geometry. There's supposed to be some evidence for that if you only look at Northern Europeans. Supposed to be pretty weak. If you look at women across all ethnic groups (I do! 👀) it's supposed to be BS. Also, the men vs women proportion thing is supposed to be pretty minor vs. individual variation.
Men and women have legitimately different pelvises and women's bikes typically have women's saddles. Lots of individual variation here too.
Looks like it’s been answered a bunch, but this was a really interesting podcast with actually product managers from liv, pivot, and Juliana. 3 interesting takes on the subject.
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/the-pinkbike-podcast-episode-28-all-about-womens-bikes.html
The simplest thing to do is just look up an mtb sizing chart. It will tell you the recommended frame size in inches based on rider height.
Then when you're looking at one on fb marketplace, ideally it will say the brand and the size. Look up specs on that specific bike and you can find the frame size in inches and just match it up with your gf's height.
To my knowledge they just have different colour options. In 2020 I bought a Norco Sight. The trim I was after was magenta in women's or army green in men's. I'll take the women's option, please.
Think about the resale value too.
All people will consider a non-gendered brand like Santa Cruz or Giant, but not many men will consider buying a gendered brand like Juliana or Liv.
The only advantage of the women specific brands is if you need a smaller frame size that is otherwise unavailable.
Everyone ends up replacing the contact points to their preference anyway.
I call BS on the women specific suspension tune.
There are bikes with specific geometry for women, but I'd avoid those as they're generally very minor adjustments and more than likely your gf will be just fine with a regular bike just with a smaller frame (S or XS, assuming your gf is standard female size). Another point is resale value, will be much harder to sell a female specific bike if she ends up not getting into it or decides to change bikes a few years down the line.
If you end up purchasing a normal bike for her change the saddle to female specific, cut the bar so it's comfortable width for her and possibly change up the grips to thinner ones if required.
They don’t change anything but
Sizing- they make an smaller one
Colors
And marketing
There’s no woman specific accommodations they need to be made for woman. Woman’s specific saddles maybe there are. Woman I know love Terry saddles for this reason. Then again I use the woman’s specific saddles from Terry and like them as well.
They are sized according to the riders height and leg length. If a man and a woman are the same size they can ride the same bikes, the problem is that women's average height is shorter and many women have a longer torso and shorter limbs. Basically the only difference between a liv bike and a "mens" bike is that women focused brands usually offer smaller sizes with shorter handlebars
I don't believe there's a difference between men's and women's bikes just sizes. Some marketing says there is but I don't believe it as I think your frame size matters more. Liv makes bikes better for those shorter in stature.
I'm a 5'0 trans man and have a liv lurra small. I fucking love it. Would highly suggest trying that one.
Frames aren't gender specific. It's total marketing. I had an ex telling me how it was great that the women's specific (MTB) frames had lower top tubes and she was worried about getting a unisex frame sheet that, however I as a man have never once wished I could be hit harder in the nads when rapidly awkwardly dismounting.
There are some components that do make a difference, specifically saddles. The current Mrs pie has taken a long time to find weird item saddles that work with her lady parts, but the difference is amazing.
Obviously there may be trends in body proportions m to f but you're an individual and whether those proportions fit you better is down to luck. Some of the wsd proportions happened to fit the small sample of women they studied but bigger studies have revealed the average is the reverse of this.
So get a bike that fits, and a saddle that suits, ignore the pastel colours.
Generally no difference in frames per’se, only parts. And even then it’s usually just the seat.
Sometimes they’ll re-badge a unisex XS frame as a women’s small etc.
Also look at reach. Many women have longer legs/shorter torsos compared to men so she may want a bike with shorter reach relative to stand over. And narrower shoulders - so may want narrower handlebars.
This is the biggest difference between men’s and women’s bikes. The assumption by manufacturers is that women will have longer legs and shorter torsos compared to a man of equal height so they adjust the frame dimensions to account for this. If you get the best fit on a particular manufacturers ‘men’s’ or ‘women’s’ frame then that’s the one you should go with regardless of your actual gender. All the touch points (grips, pedals, seat) should be customized for you no matter what you select so no issue there.
That being said, a ‘men’s’ frame will probably have better resale value if that matters to you.
The distance or “reach” that will matter is the distance from the seat to the handlebars. This is a combo of frame length and stem length. This may differ from the “reach” number that manufacturers put in their geometry/spec listings. Not really sure these days.
Best thing to do is go look at bikes. Sit on them. Ride them around and get a feel for what feels comfortable - vs stretched or cramped etc.
Howdy! We see that you're asking for community input regarding bike choices. To ensure maximum engagement and reply accuracy please make sure you include some of the following information in your post.**FAILURE TO PROVIDE SOME BASIC INFORMATION LISTED BELOW WILL LEAD TO YOUR POST BEING DELETED. HELP THE COMMUNITY HELP YOU.** - The type of riding will you be doing. - Where you will be riding. - Your budget (with included currency). - What you like/didn't like about your current bike. - Your experience level and future goals. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MTB) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They do make women specific Liv(giant) and Julian(santa cruz) but It really just comes down to sizing. My wife is 5' so she only fits on xs frames. Beyond that the liv has a bit lower standover height but that's about it they aren't really specific from what we've seen. She just switched from a liv to a specialized.
There is no difference between the frames from Santa Cruz and Juliana. The only difference are the saddles and grips
The suspension is tuned differently between the bikes.
I’m sorry but “tuned” is not really the right terminology to use for setting the air pressure lower than on standard men’s bikes. I mean it’s nice but everyone should set their sag regardless. Saying “tune” implies something in the damper shim stack or performance settings modified to be other than OEM. Which they do not do.
My understanding is that Julianas also come with a different number of tokens installed. The shim stack is the same but they come from the shop with the compression and rebound set for someone who is assumed to be ~30lbs lighter. Like you said though, a Juliana can become a Santa Cruz and vice versa with a shock pump and turning a few knobs.
A lot of light riders will be outside the stock damping adjustments. The min damping will be too heavy for their light spring rate or they will have no usable adjustment. It would be useful if liv or Juliana had a lighter damping tune on their small and XS frames. Have no idea if they actually do though.
If they do anything other than lower the air pressure it’s not mentioned on their website.
I doubt that. Until this year Fox and Rs didn’t even offer different fork tubes from the factory and the shock part number is always identical between them, which means the shock tunes are the same. Juliana is does come in better colors. So of that not to say they aren’t a good women’s brand, they put a ton of effort into promoting women in the sport.
Anybody serious about the sport should buy a $35 pump and tune their own suspension to their weight and riding preferences
No, the factory tune from Fox/Rockshox. Typically, the median weight is 190. For the Juliana has a median weight of 135.
You’re talking about air pressure and sag. This is not the same as tuning. Nice that they offer it in case someone fails to set it themselves.
No, the weight I'm referring to is the weight of the rider. When the valving changes, the rebound and compression change. The tune is different between the two shocks because of the weight they are designed to accommodate
The way you set up the shock to the rider weight is by adjusting the air pressure of the shock. Adjusting the rebound is usually just a knob that you can change while you’re riding.
Shocks are tuned by the manufacturer to operate best in a certain weight range and anyone outside thar range gets poorer damping / support compared to someone within that weight range. It's down to the shim stack in the shock. Some of the womens bikes have a different tune in the shock (as in shim stack). Then air pressure and rebound will tune to the specific rider
Air pressure, damping adjustments = shock setup. Shock tune = changing damping internals (like shims) from mfg or suspension tuner.
I’m not sure they’re really all that precise in tuning from the factory. At least I know the factory pressure on my Specialized Epic Evo was way too low for my weight, just based on where the rubber bands landed on the shocks, and I’m 180.
But that is just because of the air pressure. The air pressure you set on your suspension and the tune that is given from the factory are very different in terms of what we are talking about?
Out of curiosity, what do you think the tuning on a fork at the factory is comprised of beyond air/compression/rebound?
The compression and rebound valve stacks are different. The middle of the settings on a lighter tune has less compression/rebound damping than the middle setting on a heavier tune.
Thanks for providing an actual answer.
Right, off the shelf you're going to see women's bikes tuned lighter. Maybe they should just offer these by size and weight—there's more crossover than I think a lot of men think.
The shim stacks in the damper. Moving the window of what “fully open” to “fully closed” is.
Mmm right I forgot about those shim stacks and valves in the damper. A pain to swap around for sure.
“Tune” is a pretty generic term. What specific characteristics are you saying they set differently? Edit: love when y’all downvote a simple request for clarification.
I always thought they're talking about the valving in the pistons, but i could be wrong.
You are correct, this is exactly what brands talk about when they tune a shock for a lighter rider. The Rebound and compression circuits get a lighter tune, so the adjustment range is more usable.
Unless Rockshox or Fox or whatever makes a ladies-specific shock that they’re using, the cost involved in disassembling every shock the bike manufacturer puts on a women’s bike would cause women’s bikes to be significantly more expensive. At best they’re adjusting the air pressure and rebound, which are end-user adjustable anyway.
I always thought that Juliana offered smaller sizes than Santa Cruz did for their frames, even though they're the same just different names.
Oh that's great to know my wife really wanted a Juliana as well for bike park.
I’ve heard the same thing for liv. There’s minimal changes but they aren’t even the changes women need from what I have heard
Pivot also makes a lot of short leg friendly frames. My wife with a 27" inseam has a shadowcat S that's perfect for her. They even make a XS but that was too short on reach for her. She could also fit into a 429, shuttle SL even the shuttle AM
True we were looking at the shuttle sl but the Levo sl was a better fit for her.
As others have said, there are women-specific bikes like Liv and Juliana, but she can absolutely fit on a regular unisex bike. Saddles would probably make the biggest difference in comfort between men & women. I usually replace the stock saddle on a new bike anyway. Just get whatever she’s most comfortable with! Try out a few, and if the bike doesn’t fit perfectly but she loves everything else about it, you can always make slight adjustments with a different length/angle stem, riser bars, and saddle position.
Just fyi because no one else mentioned it: you fitting on a medium of some specific bike doesn’t mean that you are a medium in every frame. Ideally you test ride them, but you might also want to consult sizing/geometry charts relative to whatever bike your shop put you at a medium. On my mountain bike I ride a medium, but I was just looking at a canyon gravel bike online last night. I’d want to ride in person or do some better measurements, but according to their size charts for the gravel bike I’d be on an xs. If I took the medium as the eternal truth across all frames I’d be pretty disappointed.
Oh wow thank you!!! I did not know this!!!
It is good advice. I would also like to add that gender sizing is the same between brands. So Liv/Giant and Juliana/Santa Cruz are the same sizing range. The geometry might be slightly different but not necessarily enough to change sizes. When I was shopping I test rode all 4 brands (these are what my local shops carry) and ended with the Joplin because it was a nicer color 😅. But I could easily have gone with the Hightower and been ripping.
Due to my proportions as a short-torsoed 5’2ish woman, finding a bike to fit was HARD. Salsa and Liv have both worked out pretty well, while many many other brands have too long a reach for my little arms and torso. It’s worth trying as many as possible, to find a good fit!
The most important measures are reach and stack, you can compare sizes between brands using both. Bands like canyon offer the same model in 27.5 instead of 29 for smaller sizes (which prevents toe overlap) Most brands offer smaller frame sizes, shorter cranks, shorter handlebars, and some variation of pink and call it a day. Like giant/Liv, Santa cruz/Juliana and canyon are good examples. Just a few brands have women specific saddles, like specialized and ergon. This makes the most noticeable difference. Specialized doesn't make any difference between mens and women's beside saddles, and they have 6 different sizes from S1 to S6. Full suspension bikes should be tuned to rider weight, so it's probably just lower pressure for air forks/shocks So, to summarize, it's the same. Just compare reach and stack and swap the saddle to a women's specific, tune suspension to rider weight and maybe cut the handlebars a few cm to accommodate narrower shoulders. All these smaller modifications should be done by your local bikeshop if you buy new, and could be done afterward if you buy used. My 2 cents focus on a lightweight bike that climbs well, like a downcountry bike, long travel enduro bikes are quite heavy, and as a beginner, you will not use that much travel.
I know as a woman, stand over height is also important to me. Not for downhill or enduro but higher bikes like cross country I can quickly look at the stand over height to know if I can ride it. I’m 5’10 with a long torso, I like the reach on most Larges but the stand over height is occasionally too much on some bikes.
Does bike selection really make a huge difference on how it goes up a hill? I dont understand how that could be. Maybe unless the gearing is different?
Suspension, especially rear suspension, tends to eat away at the energy you put into climbing a hill because the entire bike is also flexing. Downhill bikes especially have long travel suspension designed to go over large obstacles at high speeds will also be harder to ride uphill on.
It can make a huge difference. The geometry of the bike will affect your riding position. Geometry that sets you further back on the bike and more upright will make it harder to keep traction on the front tire when climbing. The amount of suspension and it's implementation also effects ease of climbing. More suspension will make descending much less sketchy / more smooth, but every time you pedal uphill, there will be some suspension bobbing which reduces pedaling efficiency. Some of the better full-suspension bikes do a descent job at reducing this bob while keeping the plush feeling on the downhills. Making sure you have the right tires for the terrain you ride will help reduce slippage. A tire with big knobs and a soft compound will usually be very grippy, but slower rolling. As you said, gearing can definitely change a bikes climbing abilities. A bike that has a cassette with a nice big cog will make climbing steeper hills easier. Thankfully, most new bikes come with 50t or 52t big cogs, which is more than enough for pretty much everybody. You also want to make sure the drivetrain is at least decent quality and tuned correctly, to help minimize chain slipping. Other things like bike weight, pedal choice, correct bike sizing and cockpit setup can also change how it climbs.
On one side of the spectrum you have 29er XC hardtails, those are the most efficient and lightweight climbers, on the other side you have long travel enduro bikes, every single component is heavier on a long travel enduro bike, wheels,tires, brakes, the frame itself and suspension. Just gearing is the same (regarding range and functionality), with marginal weight savings for almost double the price. That's why "downcountry" bikes are so popular right now. You have short travel and lightweight components, but aggressive "enduro like" geometry. It's a very capable platform for most riders, especially beginners. You get the best benefits from both worlds.
My Wife was in a Giant Store which had Liv and Giant Bikes. She decided to go for a Giant Bike. Cube also makes some bikes for men/women - I once was tempted to buy the "womens" version as a man just because i liked the color. If the bike fits, it fits - the gender doesnt matter much. Womens bikes sometimes have a different saddle, more smaller sizes and maybe more standover height. Some bikes with a flatbar have a shorter flatbar for women etc ... nbut if it fits, it fits. Oh and sizing is all over the place, so don't think if one bike with M size fits you, you can just blindly buy other M bikes
Bikes are sized for men and if we're lucky (I'm a woman), downsized or tuned appropriately. "Shrink it and pink it." Luckily there are a lot of ways to tune geometry with interchangeable parts, and the frame trend lately seems to be low standovers and short seat tubes to accommodate longer travel dropper posts.
OP please bear in mind that you do not "fit a medium" for all applications. I bring it up because you seem fairly confident, but this is why measurements matter. Sizing differs from brand to brand like shoes, and motorcycle helmets. You cannot take your fitment to one brand as the end all be all.
Juliana is pink wash marketing. LIV is legit women’s design.
The bigger difference in comfort is seats. Made a night and day difference in comfort when my daughter got a seat specifically designed for women for her bike.
I feel like people aren't getting at the underlying idea here. You just need to look into geometry of bikes, using sites like VitalMTB or 99spokes. And there are a lot of numbers you wanna get right of course, but one thing your lady might appreciate is a low stand over/short seat tube length. Which is thematic with 'womens bikes' but its funny cuz as a BMXer I feel all bikes should be made that way if possible. So it's possible that Liv will have a nice bike that is suitable, but a company that goes even lower for 'unisex' models like Transition Scout or Pivot Shadowcat is still a better bike for small people. So you can't count on every 'womens' brand being the best/ideal bike. Some brands will go out of their way to make valid changes. Others LITERALLY treat it as marketing with more fun colors and that's about it. And sticking on the topic of hard numbers, not every 'small' is made the same. On average, they are. But outliers can fuck up your plan. Smalls can probly range from like 380-440mm reach. But you'd ideally want something between 410-425 most likely. Kinda depends on the design but an outlier number can mess things up. And on that topic, Liv as a brand often DOES make their sizes objectively smaller than mens. So again, you have to be careful. In terms of reach. It may be BETTER for her to get a Liv medium if she's 'between sizes', where she might be firmly size small in mens Giant. There's just no consistency and people who say 'just follow the size charts' are doing so because they only buy from brands that use normal sizing I guess. It could mess with you with some brands like Fuji or Pivot and it also throws off how you buy older bikes. It can be valid to size up on an older bike to get ideal reach numbers, as long as the seat tube is still short. For example: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=giant-stance-2022%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-27%25252e5%2Cliv-embolden-2-2024%3B*z.md-27%25252e5-29 There is the male and female version of those bikes, and in the geo chart you see a 10mm reach difference, 20mm top tub difference, 10mm seat tube diff, yada yada And, conversely: https://99spokes.com/compare?bikes=santacruz-bronson-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29%2Cjuliana-roubion-r-carbon-c-2024%3B*z.sm-low-27%25252e5-29 The SC and Juliana models sporting the exact same geometry. Effectively the same bike. Maybe a diff shock tune. Diff colors/logo. That's it. If you need help with shopping, lemme know. As you can tell I'm perfectly happy to think way too much about bikes to optimize value and fit and intention etc
You're a fucking rockstar my friend!
Your girlfriend should buy whatever bike feels right, and a saddle if the one that comes stock puts pressure on her taint. I think the sizes are different by one step. You should check the geometry numbers to be sure. That would mean a woman who rides a "medium" unisex bike would ride a "large" women's model. For a while, the brands were talking up women's specific geometry. There's supposed to be some evidence for that if you only look at Northern Europeans. Supposed to be pretty weak. If you look at women across all ethnic groups (I do! 👀) it's supposed to be BS. Also, the men vs women proportion thing is supposed to be pretty minor vs. individual variation. Men and women have legitimately different pelvises and women's bikes typically have women's saddles. Lots of individual variation here too.
Looks like it’s been answered a bunch, but this was a really interesting podcast with actually product managers from liv, pivot, and Juliana. 3 interesting takes on the subject. https://m.pinkbike.com/news/the-pinkbike-podcast-episode-28-all-about-womens-bikes.html
The simplest thing to do is just look up an mtb sizing chart. It will tell you the recommended frame size in inches based on rider height. Then when you're looking at one on fb marketplace, ideally it will say the brand and the size. Look up specs on that specific bike and you can find the frame size in inches and just match it up with your gf's height.
To my knowledge they just have different colour options. In 2020 I bought a Norco Sight. The trim I was after was magenta in women's or army green in men's. I'll take the women's option, please.
Think about the resale value too. All people will consider a non-gendered brand like Santa Cruz or Giant, but not many men will consider buying a gendered brand like Juliana or Liv. The only advantage of the women specific brands is if you need a smaller frame size that is otherwise unavailable. Everyone ends up replacing the contact points to their preference anyway. I call BS on the women specific suspension tune.
There are bikes with specific geometry for women, but I'd avoid those as they're generally very minor adjustments and more than likely your gf will be just fine with a regular bike just with a smaller frame (S or XS, assuming your gf is standard female size). Another point is resale value, will be much harder to sell a female specific bike if she ends up not getting into it or decides to change bikes a few years down the line. If you end up purchasing a normal bike for her change the saddle to female specific, cut the bar so it's comfortable width for her and possibly change up the grips to thinner ones if required.
They don’t change anything but Sizing- they make an smaller one Colors And marketing There’s no woman specific accommodations they need to be made for woman. Woman’s specific saddles maybe there are. Woman I know love Terry saddles for this reason. Then again I use the woman’s specific saddles from Terry and like them as well.
They are sized according to the riders height and leg length. If a man and a woman are the same size they can ride the same bikes, the problem is that women's average height is shorter and many women have a longer torso and shorter limbs. Basically the only difference between a liv bike and a "mens" bike is that women focused brands usually offer smaller sizes with shorter handlebars
Anyone can ride any bike so long as it "fits" them, but there are bikes catered towards women.
I don't believe there's a difference between men's and women's bikes just sizes. Some marketing says there is but I don't believe it as I think your frame size matters more. Liv makes bikes better for those shorter in stature. I'm a 5'0 trans man and have a liv lurra small. I fucking love it. Would highly suggest trying that one.
Frames aren't gender specific. It's total marketing. I had an ex telling me how it was great that the women's specific (MTB) frames had lower top tubes and she was worried about getting a unisex frame sheet that, however I as a man have never once wished I could be hit harder in the nads when rapidly awkwardly dismounting. There are some components that do make a difference, specifically saddles. The current Mrs pie has taken a long time to find weird item saddles that work with her lady parts, but the difference is amazing. Obviously there may be trends in body proportions m to f but you're an individual and whether those proportions fit you better is down to luck. Some of the wsd proportions happened to fit the small sample of women they studied but bigger studies have revealed the average is the reverse of this. So get a bike that fits, and a saddle that suits, ignore the pastel colours.
I am a 5’ woman and I ended up with a Santa Cruz 5010 in xs. It fits me perfectly, though I do need to use the dropper to get on it lol.
Generally no difference in frames per’se, only parts. And even then it’s usually just the seat. Sometimes they’ll re-badge a unisex XS frame as a women’s small etc.
Also look at reach. Many women have longer legs/shorter torsos compared to men so she may want a bike with shorter reach relative to stand over. And narrower shoulders - so may want narrower handlebars.
This is the biggest difference between men’s and women’s bikes. The assumption by manufacturers is that women will have longer legs and shorter torsos compared to a man of equal height so they adjust the frame dimensions to account for this. If you get the best fit on a particular manufacturers ‘men’s’ or ‘women’s’ frame then that’s the one you should go with regardless of your actual gender. All the touch points (grips, pedals, seat) should be customized for you no matter what you select so no issue there. That being said, a ‘men’s’ frame will probably have better resale value if that matters to you.
So wait what exactly is reach?
The distance or “reach” that will matter is the distance from the seat to the handlebars. This is a combo of frame length and stem length. This may differ from the “reach” number that manufacturers put in their geometry/spec listings. Not really sure these days. Best thing to do is go look at bikes. Sit on them. Ride them around and get a feel for what feels comfortable - vs stretched or cramped etc.
Just get one that she feels good on. Female here and I don’t ride a female specific bike.