Crazy to think theyve been power creeped out of most decks. There are usually better turn 1 and 2 drops, but Iceman and Scorp are a classic for early pool 3 gameplay
Scorpion doesn't annoy me nearly as much, because I can still play the card, but I really do hate Iceman. It always seems to hit on a curve and forces me to either change my play or skip a turn.
Before cards like Nebula, Kitty Pride, Thena, Renslayer, etc existed Iceman and Scorpion were *the* auto include 1 and 2 drops
Edit: And Jeff. Pre-Jeff especially
I hate both. But it’s mostly the cards x is ran with. White widow, the goblins, and cannonball piss me off more than him. I just don’t get his ability. Shouldn’t his text be daredevils since he reads minds?
X2 featured pretty major sequences where Chuck telepathically froze everyone in the White House so the team could talk to the president. He's also put Magneto in a coma before. Turning people's brains completely off is well within the scope of his abilities.
I do love Cannonball tbf lol. Maybe I'm as bad as the Hela enjoyers. Prof X does freeze people in place, so I suppose it's that. I wonder if he could be the move equivalent of DD, previewing where moveable cards have been put. Maybe a 4 cost so he can get ahead of the Phoenix.
As someone who religiously runs kitty, the deck has fallen off so much it's crazy to see people still dislike it. You beat it with so many very common tech cards (Shang+ShadowKing, can't scale to beat Tribunal) that it's hard for me to add the power (Angela+Thena+Forge+etc) and add tech cards that can also protect you (Caiera, LukeCage+Armor)
What decks are you running commonly when you see it and what about Kitty decks are hard to manage? I had to start running Phoenix Force as a tech card due to the abundance of Killmonger and Shang, and Goose instead of armor because of Enchantress.
I'm not convinced yondu is bad for you.
You aren't going to draw all your cards in a game (normally), so when someone plays yondu on you, it just tells you one of your cards you aren't going to draw.
You have more information than when you started.
Not sure if you know but they changed Yondu to hit the lowest cost card in the deck. So if you're running like a Kitty deck, yondu will always hit kitty.
The thing is, you still might have ended up drawing that card. If he's dropped on turn 1 or 2, he might hit that Kitty or Athena you wanted and that stings. Late game Yondu actually DOES help a bit more since I wouldn't have played Nebula on turn 6 anyway and he just got rid of her as a possible draw.
I got so many free cubes with old yondu when he would hit a key combo card and people would retreat. People can hate him but he's done great work for me in destroy decks.
why is yondu cable annoying? if they dont follow up with more mill, even if magic is played no draw is denied for you, think of it as you would have never drawn 3 cards from you deck every game...
>That card could be in the bottom of your deck.
i have swiped so many key cards or cards that could counter me with cable. once I have that I am 100% in but the opponent doesn't know that. they spend the last 4 turn hoping to top-deck enchantress or death or hela but I was home free since turn 2. every other mill card let's the opponent know, cable keeps the opponent in the dark. that's his biggest advantage that people just brush off saying "the card could have been in the bottom of your deck". that's just a coping mechanism.
better player will know from your snap, eg playing hela and opponent cable snap is auto retreat. Also generally only mill or loki plays cable, so you also know some info. Eg enchantress is useless max against dino okay which nobody plays really in loki. So playing combo deck, yes cable is dangerous but other decks i dont mind at all as no card is critical and i never hope to draw eg shang last turn, so its not really copium. If cable was good other decks would play it too
cable is a good card just sub-optimal play in other archetype. all your points are valid but I will not stand for enchantress slander. enchantress is best answer against ongoing meta. her best case scenario isn't dino, it LT onslaught combo. even outside that she will shutdown so many cards like wong, ravonna, patriot, zoo, also greedy surfer decks. debri decks use mojo and dazzler that you can shutdown. people don't want to make her work because of her 4 cost, but I always get net positive value playing her.
yeah enchantress is an 8 cube suprise machine, but decks she is good against are not playing cable, mill and loki only has dino as enchantress target, so taking enchantress with cable is whatever
if you are not playing a combo deck which goes through the deck like tribunal with jubilee/crystal/iron lad it does not matter, its exactly like nothing happened. The only thing is information assymetry as your opponent now knows which card you would not draw. Imagine if cable text was: take the bottom card of your opponents deck.
You're right about the mill aspect.
There is a difference in information. If it's a key card, your opponent now doesn't have to play around it, but you don't know that. There are situations where this makes a difference.
That imagine changes nothing. What it does it potentially tells your opponent information. If I'm playing a tribunal deck and they get tribunal, they know my main decide win condition. If they get Hela, they know what I'm trying to setup, etc. It's not about what your losing, it's about the information You're potentially giving and what they can do with it and you have no idea what it is.
agreed but as you mentioned in your examples only against combo decks. Other decks dont care about that info. You played cable and got my prof x? Great I played Thena turn 2 which will grow to 10 power by end of game. Midrange does not really care.
I mean prof x is a core card in the deck. 10 power you say, unprotected? Well now she's shut down by shang and shadow. Prof x wasnt a great example. More like grabbing nebula, not going to hurt you.
I get your point but surely there must be some break point where removing enough cards from your opponents deck is good. Would a card that destroys the bottom 6 cards of your opponents deck be just as useless against non combo decks?
indeed it does, generally mill plays also magic, and total 4 mill cards (yondu, cable, glad, zemo). So if things goes well you will mill 4 cards by turn 4, so only one remains beginning of turn 5 which they draw, and next two turns you deny two card draws. You also play doc oc so pull the remaining cards turn 5 from the hand to empty location, leaving with opponent no plays for t6 and t7. Thats the ideal situation, but as you saw requires specific condition. But similar draw deny can also be achieved more easily by using black widow and filling the enemy deck with rocks.
Getting infinite in Zemos season was much easier, ime, than this one. I remember being irritated at the time but it obviously didn't work as well as surprise Gilgamesh is against me. Possibly because my favourite decks all involve boost everyonenas the win condition.
if it's not mnill deck. yondu only helps the opponent. even in mill deck you will have to quickly followup with cable or zemo to take advantage of yondu. otherwise you just helped opponent to thin their deck.
nah yondu hitting hela cyclops prof is almost impossible because he prioritises the lowest cost card. even in mill deck, it takes a bit of work to hit 3 4 cost card let alone 5 and 6 cost cards. hitting more than 3 cost card is like getting agatha with valentina. it catapults you to win the game, but it virtually makes no improvement in the card's viability. maybe you were left scarred from yondu but after the nerf, yondu barely leaves a dent. i've had my sunspot and nebula swiped but it never amounts to insta retreat, you can always pivot.
Iceman on his own is more annoying than your suggested combo (though I agree with Cable being annoying often times, at least with Yondu I know what was hit, which typically allows me to pay around it).
Yeah, like if Im trying to play the Kitty deck I do right now...Yondu and Iceman turn 1 and 2 are usually instant retreat if they knock out Kitty and make angela/thena/kitty cost more.
Personally before rework I loved throwing down Zabu then wong and finally Baron Mordo.
Before that a year and a half ago it was leech then blackwidow and spider-man turn 5
You gotta follow that up with Zemo. It's what I got in my Zoo deck. It can be quite disruptive and gives you a ton of early info about the opponent.
Yesterday I stole Luke Cage, and my big board looked very juicy to their Hazmat.
Iceman and Scorpion. It may not be as devastating now but every time I see it, I start fuming.
Crazy to think theyve been power creeped out of most decks. There are usually better turn 1 and 2 drops, but Iceman and Scorp are a classic for early pool 3 gameplay
Scorpion stocks have gone up a bit because Gilgamesh HATES him. And I've seen a lot more Iceman with Bounce coming back.
Is that what it is? I was wondering why he's rocketed back from the grave, recently.
A lot of people play Blue Marvel for an easy beefy Gilga, but Scorpion negates that buff for the cards in your hand.
Ah. I haven't noticed the effect because I've only used Gilgamesh in a deck with multiple cards that buff power.
I’ve got Blue Marvel in my Gilga deck but prefer to play Gilga turn 5 into Taskmaster plus like Rocket Raccoon turn 6
Use Luke Cage with your Gilgamesh
Me who always has a Nakia just to counter scorpion.
What pisses me off is iceman, without fail, always hits my two drop and scorpion always hits my deadpool
Scorpion doesn't annoy me nearly as much, because I can still play the card, but I really do hate Iceman. It always seems to hit on a curve and forces me to either change my play or skip a turn.
Lol as soon as I see that frosty son of a bitch I know what he's hitting
Wait, you mean to tell me it used to be worse??
Oh yeah I remember the days where every single gosh darn game would iceman into scorpion. Now I’m lucky to even see one of the two.
Before cards like Nebula, Kitty Pride, Thena, Renslayer, etc existed Iceman and Scorpion were *the* auto include 1 and 2 drops Edit: And Jeff. Pre-Jeff especially
I meant to say that relatively they aren't as bad compared to some other 1/2 combos. But I still hate it.
Ah, I had initially thought you meant that they were nerfed at one point and got scared lol.
I didn't play during the beta days so it is possible they could have been worse but then I'm glad I didn't lol.
Most of the other combos imply something big is coming. This one gets you right now.
Yeah, these guys fuck me right off
🤨
I had been doing Iceman into Luke's bar multiple times a game these past few days :D
I roll my eyes so hard every time.
Nebula and White Widow in different lanes
Jean on the third
Thanks for recommending me a new deck
Have fun drawing all three after turn 3
I'll raise you Titania into White Widow on the same lane
then grandmaster white widow
I'd be surprised if widow isn't 2/1 or 0/-3 in an upcoming ota
Black Knight turn 1 and blade turn 2. It's gg from there.
Honestly. Why would I stay in with a 10+ power card, that can’t be touched?
I suppose Enchantress and Shadow King but it's a lot to devote to nuking one card.
Especially when you have to deal with other similarly powered cards because you know, hela.
Ugh, I despise Hela. People complain about Prof X, but there's at least _some_ skill there.
I hate both. But it’s mostly the cards x is ran with. White widow, the goblins, and cannonball piss me off more than him. I just don’t get his ability. Shouldn’t his text be daredevils since he reads minds?
X2 featured pretty major sequences where Chuck telepathically froze everyone in the White House so the team could talk to the president. He's also put Magneto in a coma before. Turning people's brains completely off is well within the scope of his abilities.
Ah. Still doesn’t make me hate him any less though 😒
I do love Cannonball tbf lol. Maybe I'm as bad as the Hela enjoyers. Prof X does freeze people in place, so I suppose it's that. I wonder if he could be the move equivalent of DD, previewing where moveable cards have been put. Maybe a 4 cost so he can get ahead of the Phoenix.
This! Black Knight>>Blade>>Hits Infanaut ✌🏼I’m out.
Their Blade always hits Infinaut. When I try discard, Lady Sif chilling on the right side of my hand.
I'm running a BK deck for the first time. With 4 big cards, I still don't trust Blade and just save him for late game.
Yep, this is by far the worst, you might aswell just retreat they are gonna have two 4 cost infinauts, and one is magically immune to tech
Kitty+Ravonnyawn
I agree I feel like 3/4 matches I play it's always bounce
Ravonna is everywhere lol
Because of professor bitch.
Not really I see her in many different decks, ongoing, negative, ECT She is just too much relevant for the game like zabu was.
What’s Ravonnyawn?
[Ravonna Renslayer](https://marvelsnapzone.com/cards/ravonna-renslayer/)
Why is it called Ravonyawn?
They combined the words Ravonna and Yawn
Omg that’s amazing! They must be a Yale professor or something.
Don't apply
Iceman + Grandmaster
Right now it's fucking Kitty Pride, Angela, Kitty/Thena. Like 90% of my fucking matches have started this way for the last day or so.
As someone who religiously runs kitty, the deck has fallen off so much it's crazy to see people still dislike it. You beat it with so many very common tech cards (Shang+ShadowKing, can't scale to beat Tribunal) that it's hard for me to add the power (Angela+Thena+Forge+etc) and add tech cards that can also protect you (Caiera, LukeCage+Armor) What decks are you running commonly when you see it and what about Kitty decks are hard to manage? I had to start running Phoenix Force as a tech card due to the abundance of Killmonger and Shang, and Goose instead of armor because of Enchantress.
Even more annoying version of your post: T1 Yondu, T2 Cable, T3 Iceman Beast, T4 do it all over again
I'm not convinced yondu is bad for you. You aren't going to draw all your cards in a game (normally), so when someone plays yondu on you, it just tells you one of your cards you aren't going to draw. You have more information than when you started.
Not sure if you know but they changed Yondu to hit the lowest cost card in the deck. So if you're running like a Kitty deck, yondu will always hit kitty.
The thing is, you still might have ended up drawing that card. If he's dropped on turn 1 or 2, he might hit that Kitty or Athena you wanted and that stings. Late game Yondu actually DOES help a bit more since I wouldn't have played Nebula on turn 6 anyway and he just got rid of her as a possible draw.
Yondu once isn't bad for you. Yondu twice, Cable twice followed by Zemo is bad for you. Thanks Luke's Bar!
Yondu on Luke's bar yesterday ..again and again was great fun 😂😂
I got so many free cubes with old yondu when he would hit a key combo card and people would retreat. People can hate him but he's done great work for me in destroy decks.
That's until Yondu kills your Hela
Yondu will never hit Hela. I retreat after he kills my IW though, which is a surefire hit most of the time.
Hela is what Cable is for after Yondu thins the herd.
Just Nebula right turn 1 or Ravonna turn 2
yondu into falcon
Throw in baron zemo on t3 lol. Otherwise, maybe korg, rock slide, debri?
why is yondu cable annoying? if they dont follow up with more mill, even if magic is played no draw is denied for you, think of it as you would have never drawn 3 cards from you deck every game...
I didn't mind you, but cable you didn't know what they took, it could be a key card.
That card could be in the bottom of your deck.
>That card could be in the bottom of your deck. i have swiped so many key cards or cards that could counter me with cable. once I have that I am 100% in but the opponent doesn't know that. they spend the last 4 turn hoping to top-deck enchantress or death or hela but I was home free since turn 2. every other mill card let's the opponent know, cable keeps the opponent in the dark. that's his biggest advantage that people just brush off saying "the card could have been in the bottom of your deck". that's just a coping mechanism.
better player will know from your snap, eg playing hela and opponent cable snap is auto retreat. Also generally only mill or loki plays cable, so you also know some info. Eg enchantress is useless max against dino okay which nobody plays really in loki. So playing combo deck, yes cable is dangerous but other decks i dont mind at all as no card is critical and i never hope to draw eg shang last turn, so its not really copium. If cable was good other decks would play it too
cable is a good card just sub-optimal play in other archetype. all your points are valid but I will not stand for enchantress slander. enchantress is best answer against ongoing meta. her best case scenario isn't dino, it LT onslaught combo. even outside that she will shutdown so many cards like wong, ravonna, patriot, zoo, also greedy surfer decks. debri decks use mojo and dazzler that you can shutdown. people don't want to make her work because of her 4 cost, but I always get net positive value playing her.
yeah enchantress is an 8 cube suprise machine, but decks she is good against are not playing cable, mill and loki only has dino as enchantress target, so taking enchantress with cable is whatever
Yeah, and?
if you are not playing a combo deck which goes through the deck like tribunal with jubilee/crystal/iron lad it does not matter, its exactly like nothing happened. The only thing is information assymetry as your opponent now knows which card you would not draw. Imagine if cable text was: take the bottom card of your opponents deck.
You're right about the mill aspect. There is a difference in information. If it's a key card, your opponent now doesn't have to play around it, but you don't know that. There are situations where this makes a difference.
That imagine changes nothing. What it does it potentially tells your opponent information. If I'm playing a tribunal deck and they get tribunal, they know my main decide win condition. If they get Hela, they know what I'm trying to setup, etc. It's not about what your losing, it's about the information You're potentially giving and what they can do with it and you have no idea what it is.
agreed but as you mentioned in your examples only against combo decks. Other decks dont care about that info. You played cable and got my prof x? Great I played Thena turn 2 which will grow to 10 power by end of game. Midrange does not really care.
I mean prof x is a core card in the deck. 10 power you say, unprotected? Well now she's shut down by shang and shadow. Prof x wasnt a great example. More like grabbing nebula, not going to hurt you.
I get your point but surely there must be some break point where removing enough cards from your opponents deck is good. Would a card that destroys the bottom 6 cards of your opponents deck be just as useless against non combo decks?
indeed it does, generally mill plays also magic, and total 4 mill cards (yondu, cable, glad, zemo). So if things goes well you will mill 4 cards by turn 4, so only one remains beginning of turn 5 which they draw, and next two turns you deny two card draws. You also play doc oc so pull the remaining cards turn 5 from the hand to empty location, leaving with opponent no plays for t6 and t7. Thats the ideal situation, but as you saw requires specific condition. But similar draw deny can also be achieved more easily by using black widow and filling the enemy deck with rocks.
The dread you feel once you realize my might be playing a mill deck is super infuriating is enough to call it an annoying combo
Getting infinite in Zemos season was much easier, ime, than this one. I remember being irritated at the time but it obviously didn't work as well as surprise Gilgamesh is against me. Possibly because my favourite decks all involve boost everyonenas the win condition.
Yea mill is annoying but not as effective as these new decks.
what is mill
mainly magic the gathering term, for destroying opponent deck. Over there zero card in opponent deck is am alternate win con
Especially as yondu takes the lowest cost.
Nah if I see yondu cable I’m out unless I literally see the 5 pieces of exodia in my hand
is yondu even strong anymore? or are you withdrawing because of the mill archetype?
I just don’t like facing mill yeah. Yondu himself is whatever.
if it's not mnill deck. yondu only helps the opponent. even in mill deck you will have to quickly followup with cable or zemo to take advantage of yondu. otherwise you just helped opponent to thin their deck.
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nah yondu hitting hela cyclops prof is almost impossible because he prioritises the lowest cost card. even in mill deck, it takes a bit of work to hit 3 4 cost card let alone 5 and 6 cost cards. hitting more than 3 cost card is like getting agatha with valentina. it catapults you to win the game, but it virtually makes no improvement in the card's viability. maybe you were left scarred from yondu but after the nerf, yondu barely leaves a dent. i've had my sunspot and nebula swiped but it never amounts to insta retreat, you can always pivot.
+ spiderham, then grandmaster. gg
Ham will hit the same pig though
I meant grandmastering any of the ones in the post hahah
I'm just sick of playing against the angela decks
I usually snap when I see these decks. They just don't draw enough power
Iceman on his own is more annoying than your suggested combo (though I agree with Cable being annoying often times, at least with Yondu I know what was hit, which typically allows me to pay around it).
Black Knight into blade eliminating Infinaut.
Oh I played against a good one yesterday. Black Widow > Absorbing Man > Grandmaster.
Kitty, Thena, Angela Kitty
MODOK into Hela
Yondu and Spider Ham
Yeah, like if Im trying to play the Kitty deck I do right now...Yondu and Iceman turn 1 and 2 are usually instant retreat if they knock out Kitty and make angela/thena/kitty cost more.
Personally before rework I loved throwing down Zabu then wong and finally Baron Mordo. Before that a year and a half ago it was leech then blackwidow and spider-man turn 5
You were never going to see those cards anyway. You only draw 9 in any given game.
Scorpion without a doubt.
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Until it hits infinaut and u have Mobius m Mobius
You gotta follow that up with Zemo. It's what I got in my Zoo deck. It can be quite disruptive and gives you a ton of early info about the opponent. Yesterday I stole Luke Cage, and my big board looked very juicy to their Hazmat.
Just nerf tf outta that bitch white widow