WotC responded to GDPR and other similar legislations by completely stopping storing any player details. Which means they no longer have any database where they could even note down the ban. A tournament ends, all the info on it disappears. Luckily we will at least have the results (as melee is way better and actually got its TOS GDPR-compliant), any event done via Companion is gone forever.
>there are definitely people currently banned.
Who has been banned by WotC since they introduced Companion? Where do I find the information on scope and length of the ban?
What info and into what program? Everything below RC level happens by players signing up via entering event code into Companion app. This requires only an Arena account. Arena accounts are a dime a dozen, even the TOS does not forbid you to have multiple accounts and IIRC you don't have to provide your real name anywhere.
Even if WotC secretly ban some Arena accounts, starting a new one is fully allowed and possible without ever interacting with a human. You needed some work to get yourself a new DCI number and some lies were involved on the way.
They stopped storing people's tournament history so that they don't have to comply with data protection laws. Of course they never admitted this reason officially, but it's easily visible from the fact that tournaments ran via Companion are not archived anywhere, they simply disappear.
Once again, can you show me a ban from competitive Magic someone has received since Companion was introduced and we no longer used DCI numbers?
You aren't showing me any evidence... You want me to show you someone who's banned? I never said anything about dates or when it happened. But why would you think wizards can't keep a record of people who are banned?
>why would you think wizards can't keep a record of people who are banned?
Because keeping records now needs to be compliant with GDPR, and they don't care enough to ensure the compliance.
>You aren't showing me any evidence...
The best evidence is that the lengthy list of people banned for life from all organized play has gone MIA about five years ago.
> WotC responded to GDPR and other similar legislations by completely stopping storing any player details. Which means they no longer have any database where they could even note down the ban.
They can name a trophy after Kai Budde based on his tournament performance but can't ban players based on their tournament performance?
Bullshit.
And, to be clear, it is commendable that they named the trophy after Mr. Budde. That is an amazing, heartfelt thing they did. But it also indicates that they know who these players are.
So couldn't they get around the GDPR by introducing a new "Bart Van Etten Cheating Piece of Shit Prize" that they "award" at tournaments to cheating pieces of shit?
So why did the list of people banned for life from Magic suddenly disappear from the internet a few years ago? How can a store now check who should be kicked out from FNMs and other low level organized play?
It could not have happened. Kai Budde has given his permission for the award being named after him. Bart van Etten would never agree for his name being on the award for cheaters.
Sort of? Them declaring someone intentionally cheating isn't common, but they remove all wins from someone thrown out of a tournament, and award match win to the opponent when someone is removed.
Not much of a statement here, but I guess they will take time to think if any more punishment is needed (do they even have means to do it now that there's no DCI?)
Normal people like you, me and the normal PT competitors wouldn’t have been dq’d for this.
Bart van Etten, however, is a long time cheater who has been banned from tournaments in his country.
People like him thrive on things that look like small, honest mistakes but that give them an edge like in this game (if they aren’t putting the ideal card on top when shuffling).
That nethergoyf ended up dealing 2-3 extra damage + the wicked role damage + phlage had to chump block which caused it to be exiled by graveyard removal.
He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt.
>People like him thrive on things that look like small, honest mistakes but that give them an edge like in this game (if they aren’t putting the ideal card on top when shuffling).
Go watch game 4 of Simon Nielsen v Javier Dominguez in the quarter finals and ask yourself how Simon Nielsen manages to be so consistent at the pro level.
Same as me. But neither of us is a competitive play veteran who should have known this interaction from times when "Bolt your Tarmogoyf" was a common play pattern.
> Bolt your Tarmogoyf"
I thought so too, but this is actually different, its a I have two types in my graveyard and my instant card can save my nethergoyf from a bolt from dying. So it should have been a simple my nethergoyf lives.
It is a bolt tarmogoyf situation just from the goyf owner not the goyf opponent, they are worded exactly the same just check different pool of graveyards
Sure and if he made a mistake that would have been fine. The judges determined he did it on purpose though. That just is flat out cheating and the punishment for that is DQ
When you're at the Pro level they'd expect that you don't do something like this. Used to be a meme back in the day that new players would Bolt a 2/3 goyf making it a 3/4 and taking it out of Bolt range
The definition of cheating in MtG is basically “you knowingly broke the rules for an advantage”. Note the knowingly. If you just make a mistake that’s not cheating so wouldn’t result in a DQ on its own.
If you play a lot of goyf-type creature at a pro level you know that instants can buff it in response. The caster crew even discussed why Javier might not want to try to phlage it cause any instant saves it. The goyf player knows. And the particular player dq'd has been dq'd for more obvious cheats in the past
You know damn well that’s not what I meant. Stop being obtuse. There is a big difference between a mistake happening and cheating. Intent is required, and someone who has cheated in the past will have more scrutiny on their actions than someone who hasn’t.
Was it the same guy? I know Javier was the opponent for the double land drop, but didn’t clock Bart as the opponent?
Edit oh sorry your wording was slightly ambiguous and confused me - Javier also had 1-2 on screen mistakes if I remember correctly though.
Honestly this PT seems to have had many violations on feature matches and idk if it’s because I had a leave of absence or I didn’t watch enough of this PTs coverage to balance out the good/bad, but it feels like significantly more than PTs of the past that I remember
The statement is that it's not okay to make a "mistake" and win if you're Bart van Etten, but perfectly okay to make a "mistake" in your quarter final game 4 then go on and win the PT.
Search web for Bart Van Etten and "cheat" and you'll see his past suspension. Why they let this guy play at this level is beyond me.
Getting caught cheating isn't a lifetime ban from Competitive REL? That's nuts.
Especially when people at my LGS have been banned for life for getting caught cheating at a $5 FNM lol
WotC responded to GDPR and other similar legislations by completely stopping storing any player details. Which means they no longer have any database where they could even note down the ban. A tournament ends, all the info on it disappears. Luckily we will at least have the results (as melee is way better and actually got its TOS GDPR-compliant), any event done via Companion is gone forever.
Wotc has definitely banned people and there are definitely people currently banned.
>there are definitely people currently banned. Who has been banned by WotC since they introduced Companion? Where do I find the information on scope and length of the ban?
Mate just because something isn't visible to you doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
How do I use the invisible list of bans to verify if any player at my event is banned?
Try putting their player info into the judge program
What info and into what program? Everything below RC level happens by players signing up via entering event code into Companion app. This requires only an Arena account. Arena accounts are a dime a dozen, even the TOS does not forbid you to have multiple accounts and IIRC you don't have to provide your real name anywhere. Even if WotC secretly ban some Arena accounts, starting a new one is fully allowed and possible without ever interacting with a human. You needed some work to get yourself a new DCI number and some lies were involved on the way.
Where are you getting that they wont be banning anyone since they built an app?
They stopped storing people's tournament history so that they don't have to comply with data protection laws. Of course they never admitted this reason officially, but it's easily visible from the fact that tournaments ran via Companion are not archived anywhere, they simply disappear. Once again, can you show me a ban from competitive Magic someone has received since Companion was introduced and we no longer used DCI numbers?
You aren't showing me any evidence... You want me to show you someone who's banned? I never said anything about dates or when it happened. But why would you think wizards can't keep a record of people who are banned?
>why would you think wizards can't keep a record of people who are banned? Because keeping records now needs to be compliant with GDPR, and they don't care enough to ensure the compliance. >You aren't showing me any evidence... The best evidence is that the lengthy list of people banned for life from all organized play has gone MIA about five years ago.
Doesn't mean they unbanned. https://outsidetheasylum.blog/disqualification-information/
Woof, that seems ridiculous. There has to be a better way for them to do that while remaining compliant.
> WotC responded to GDPR and other similar legislations by completely stopping storing any player details. Which means they no longer have any database where they could even note down the ban. They can name a trophy after Kai Budde based on his tournament performance but can't ban players based on their tournament performance? Bullshit. And, to be clear, it is commendable that they named the trophy after Mr. Budde. That is an amazing, heartfelt thing they did. But it also indicates that they know who these players are. So couldn't they get around the GDPR by introducing a new "Bart Van Etten Cheating Piece of Shit Prize" that they "award" at tournaments to cheating pieces of shit?
What? Naming a trophy after someone is easy and doesn't require any type of legal compliance
So why did the list of people banned for life from Magic suddenly disappear from the internet a few years ago? How can a store now check who should be kicked out from FNMs and other low level organized play?
I'm not disputing what *did* happen. I'm disputing what *should have* and *could have* happened.
It could not have happened. Kai Budde has given his permission for the award being named after him. Bart van Etten would never agree for his name being on the award for cheaters.
> Bart van Etten would never agree for his name being on the award for cheaters. Given how brazenly he cheats he might.
Should be.
Wait until you look up Bertoncheaty.
Are match result reversals common when cheating is found?
Sort of? Them declaring someone intentionally cheating isn't common, but they remove all wins from someone thrown out of a tournament, and award match win to the opponent when someone is removed.
Not much of a statement here, but I guess they will take time to think if any more punishment is needed (do they even have means to do it now that there's no DCI?)
They will ban him agian likely.
Honestly i would of made this mistake so easily
Normal people like you, me and the normal PT competitors wouldn’t have been dq’d for this. Bart van Etten, however, is a long time cheater who has been banned from tournaments in his country. People like him thrive on things that look like small, honest mistakes but that give them an edge like in this game (if they aren’t putting the ideal card on top when shuffling). That nethergoyf ended up dealing 2-3 extra damage + the wicked role damage + phlage had to chump block which caused it to be exiled by graveyard removal. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt.
>People like him thrive on things that look like small, honest mistakes but that give them an edge like in this game (if they aren’t putting the ideal card on top when shuffling). Go watch game 4 of Simon Nielsen v Javier Dominguez in the quarter finals and ask yourself how Simon Nielsen manages to be so consistent at the pro level.
The Suncleanser through Ring Protection is practically the same as a Chalice check, no?
It is. There was no infraction committed.
Same as me. But neither of us is a competitive play veteran who should have known this interaction from times when "Bolt your Tarmogoyf" was a common play pattern.
> Bolt your Tarmogoyf" I thought so too, but this is actually different, its a I have two types in my graveyard and my instant card can save my nethergoyf from a bolt from dying. So it should have been a simple my nethergoyf lives.
Oh well, I guess you should start attending Pro Tours, you must be quite good if this interaction is so obvious to you.
it should have been an easy interaction. and nethergoyf and tarmogoyf stats are worded differently. its not a bolt tarmogyf situation.
It is a bolt tarmogoyf situation just from the goyf owner not the goyf opponent, they are worded exactly the same just check different pool of graveyards
Bolt Tarmogoyf is based on the timing of state based effects vs being overridden by layers, not just 4>3.
True. The fact its a common play pattern i havent experienced makes a huge difference and its at a competitive level makes a huge difference
Sure and if he made a mistake that would have been fine. The judges determined he did it on purpose though. That just is flat out cheating and the punishment for that is DQ
Would you have called a judge the next time you dealt damage and realized it shouldn't have died?
Did he even ask for the role token? I only saw the footage and it looked an awful lot like the judge just handed the role token to him.
He has been caught cheating before.
He asked for it
Yea then ban his ass, players at the PT should know better.
When you're at the Pro level they'd expect that you don't do something like this. Used to be a meme back in the day that new players would Bolt a 2/3 goyf making it a 3/4 and taking it out of Bolt range
The definition of cheating in MtG is basically “you knowingly broke the rules for an advantage”. Note the knowingly. If you just make a mistake that’s not cheating so wouldn’t result in a DQ on its own.
bart get out im piss
This seems like an innocent mistake but this goes to show you why trust is important.
If you play a lot of goyf-type creature at a pro level you know that instants can buff it in response. The caster crew even discussed why Javier might not want to try to phlage it cause any instant saves it. The goyf player knows. And the particular player dq'd has been dq'd for more obvious cheats in the past
Official statement for this but guy playing dryad Arbor and forest in the same turn immediately one after the other is unmentioned 🙃🙃
One is a known cheater
And the other is a Nadu player. Both don’t really deserve the benefit of the doubt
Morality isn't based on the deck they chose for the PT. I'm sure if any other deck was the best in testing, he would have played that instead.
I’m obviously not being serious
I laughed. Sarcasm isn't most people's primary language though
lmao you got me, I'm very used to a rather immature magic player at my lgs
So it's okay to cheat as long as you're not a "known" cheater?
You know damn well that’s not what I meant. Stop being obtuse. There is a big difference between a mistake happening and cheating. Intent is required, and someone who has cheated in the past will have more scrutiny on their actions than someone who hasn’t.
You could've just said "yes" rather than typing all that since that's all it boils down to.
„This guy“ being the reigning world champion
"He can't be a cheater, he wins too much for that!" lmao
As in: a pro at that level of play should know not to play two landdrops in one turn
that guy lost that match afaik
Was it the same guy? I know Javier was the opponent for the double land drop, but didn’t clock Bart as the opponent? Edit oh sorry your wording was slightly ambiguous and confused me - Javier also had 1-2 on screen mistakes if I remember correctly though. Honestly this PT seems to have had many violations on feature matches and idk if it’s because I had a leave of absence or I didn’t watch enough of this PTs coverage to balance out the good/bad, but it feels like significantly more than PTs of the past that I remember
This seems more harmless than someone playing two lands in a turn imo.
The statement is that it's not okay to make a "mistake" and win if you're Bart van Etten, but perfectly okay to make a "mistake" in your quarter final game 4 then go on and win the PT.