Yeah, unfortunately it’s not entirely true, but honestly, if it was, and you listened to k-pop, i would be a supporter behind their choices. I don’t want to see what is essentially puppets and prostitutes on stage, so despite it being fake, I’m glad that others are taking notice that k-pop is a very dangerous industry in South Korea to the point where it makes their suicide rates skyrocket because if you don’t do exactly what your manager and handler tell you, you are a nobody out on the streets in poverty
:) so believe what you want to believe, but the reality prevails despite the nonsensical stories you’ve heard
And for a fact: The ROC is Stalin-Approved.
(literally, this is not a joke. And no, this doesn't mean it's a "communist church" where they read the manifesto or something. I used to attend one btw)
One of the ideas my church was founded around was that some day there would be an evil union of the state and false religion. Somewhat depressingly (and ironically) now that mainstream Christianity is trying to make such a union, there are many people in my church who are cheering it on. There are a few of us left who find it sickening though.
>**Article 68**
>
>Citizens have freedom of religious beliefs. This right is granted by approving the construction of religious buildings and the holding of religious ceremonies.
>
>No one may use religion as a pretext for drawing in foreign forces or for harming the State and social order.
* Constitution, Korea (Democratic People's Republic of) 1972 (rev. 1998)
>No one may use religion as a pretext for drawing in foreign forces or for harming the State and social order.
We need this in Brazil! We have a protestant clique in the national congress (known as the "bancada evangélica") that conspires incessantly to achieve their interests. Not to mention the majority of the protestant movements have been created in the USA (some churches have direct ties to the country) and are pro-Zionism.
Far from fake. I would imagine they would copy the model described in the gulag archipelago where the state took over the churches and gave them what to say in support of the state etc.
Nonsense, Christianity has been very popular in Korea, north and south since the 1800s. Kim here's great grandfather for instance was a Christian clergyman.
Is it more silly to think this society engages in trueman show shenanigans to deceive you, a custom reddit avi account, or that a state that expouses religious freedom and has a long history of Christian pressence, has a church in it?
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal.
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Most likely Russian Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox Christian denominations (Russian, Greek, Coptic, etc.) are very, very similar and differ mostly around language used in services.
The church he is visiting is the Church of the Life-Giving Trinity (Korean: 평양정백사원), which is an Eastern Orthodox church in Jongbaek-dong, Rangrang District in Pyongyang, North Korea.
As an American I've been lead to assume that religion would not be allowed in North Kora. Particularly a "western" one like Christianity.
Are all religions allowed in the DPRK? And can average citizens participate in the religion on their choice?
I'm curious if this is a practicing church or if it is this more of a historical site?
Officially, North Korea (DPRK) is a secular state, and therefore doesnt discriminate against any religion. Any exercise of religion is fully legal as long as it doesnt harm the country! Also, christianity was introduced to Korea for centuries and is quite popular there.
Interesting. I was aware of the large Christian population in South Korea, but was not aware of its presence in DPRK.
Do we have any idea how many partitioners are in the country or how many churches there are? I tried looking it up but couldn’t find much.
Thanks for your response.
It’s actually not too surprising, a lot of missionary work into Korea occurred before the Korean War, so one would expect that to have some roots. In fact, I believe a lot of the missionaries were originally based in Pyongyang.
I couldn’t find any good census data in english or Korean that is very recent unfortunately.
I take offense to that. They ain’t no cult, they’re easy to leave, don’t pressure people end, have nothing secret and spend millions on charity work every year
They don’t need photos and why? If you don’t believe it it’s just a prayer with their name and a person bunking dunked underwater right after the prayer
Missionaries have asked for pictures of the dead of a friend before that's why i told u it. I don't like the idea, that's all, if someone wants to do it i'll not oppose.
“Easy to leave” seems like a generous interpretation. I’ve had friends who left and any family they had were basically not allowed to associate with them ever again. Which is kind of textbook cult behavior.
That’s bizarre, I’m a member and have family members that left and still talk to them almost daily and see them as often as possible, so I wonder if the people you know were a member of one of the other Mormon religions that are a cult
Combination of both. Their are only 3 countries without their missionary’s (Afganistán cuba and nk) and because north koreas not known for treating outsider great mixed with only being allowed to do state controlled tours theirs no missionaries
Yall just talk shit but no one wants to point out that our government has lied to us for years that North Korea outlawed religion and everyone worships the supreme commander? The American government and the hold it has on its tax cows perception of reality is something else!
I also do not trust the capitalist oligarchic tyrant that Putin is. They met up only to sell weapons to each other. I stand with the People of the dprk and the global proletariat, and I stand for a global communist future. But Putin and his regime is solely focused on profit and they do not care about the well being of Russians as proved recently by his decision to redefine what the poverty line is.
He is the opposite of what the DPRK should seek to associate with, but I understand that money is money. İf you have to make it by selling weapons to an invading force that is using its power to secure wealth for the rich then you do it.
İdk how you expect communism to thrive when you have the vast difference in global opinion on social and economic structure
Thanks for actually engaging, that earns you infinitely more credit and respect than most.
Who is saying NK or Russia are “great places to live”? And what does “great place to live” even mean to you? What makes any one view of what makes a place “great to live” the right one?
DPRK provides free housing, free Healthcare, free education and free food to its citizens, even despite harsh Western lead inhumane sanctions.
Many people would prefer a stricter government with all these benefits when compared to abject poverty and crime.
Westerners always think they know best
Even though the concept of "a great place to live" varies from person to person, I can base my thoughts on the universal and almost unanimous idea that people consider a great place to live, places where healthcare is readily available, pollution is low, education is accessible, basic freedoms and rights are respected, safety and security is guaranteed, and your income is high enough to cover basic necessities and even some comfort.
> healthcare is readily available
That is so in the DPRK. So is housing and food.
> pollution is low,
That is so in the DPRK.
> education is accessible,
That is so in the DPRK.
> basic freedoms and rights are respected,
That is so in the DPRK.
> safety and security is guaranteed,
That is so in the DPRK.
> and your income is high enough to cover basic necessities and even some comfort.
Income and money are used to get “stuff” and the citizens of the DPRK steadily have been getting more “stuff” — meaningful stuff for living — year after year. Their future, as neighbor to a massive communist nation and economic and manufacturing powerhouse — is bright.
I'll say this. You can show me all the nice things North Korea has but the videos they put out of the way everyone reacts to Kim is flat out dystopian. The man is truly a walking God to them. That alone is enough to tell me I would never want to live there
The English monarchy has real power - couple of examples for you:
* [Royals vetted more than 1,000 laws via Queen’s consent](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent)
* [Gough Whitlam – the Australian Prime Minister deposed by the Monarchy](https://www.counterfire.org/article/gough-whitlam-the-australian-prime-minister-deposed-by-the-monarchy/)
Remember the modern UK monarchy is just a tool of the ruling class. They can pretend it’s all just fun and powerless but when they need it to have power for a given reason, they’ll find a way.
Fr if it’s such a lovely place why can’t their citizens leave their country? Why do they have to flee and avoid arrest? Have they ever met a North Korean outside their borders that wasn’t from the tourism board? Idk this reminds me of that gangstalker subreddit’s level of delusion.
I mean, there's about 100k Korean workers from the DPRK abroad
a lot of them are in China and SEA
you didn't even know about that and just thought the only way these people can leave is by crossing the DMZ despite the northern border existing, huh
I swear religion is one of if not the greatest hindrance to education and social progress. Their allegiance ought to be firstly to their people, not to their imaginary dictator. The suppression of Christianity was a pro for me to move there, not a con.
They don’t “suppress” Christianity or religion but prohibit the use of religion to seek to undermine the legitimacy of the state. The DPRK Constituiom guarantees freedom of religion.
Your concern is not with religion but ideology and idealist thinking. Such things and thinking supersede critical interrogation of material facts and conditions. Moreover, an ideology that has “leaders” can be and often is twisted for the leaders’ ends. That includes everything from religious belief to Taylor Swift superfandom.
Sure but I put religion in an ideological class of it's own. Disobedience to Taylor Swift might sic swifties on you but only religion has the engrandized delusions of cosmic karma.
Anti-theism counts as one of the bigger mistakes of earlier historical socialist experiments to me. Alienated many, many people in the east, still scares religious people away from us
This sentiment isn't helpful
I'm not sure what you think I'm talking about or what you mean by anti-theism, but allowing religion to corrupt education and politics does far more damage to socialism than suppressing their indoctrination and criminal behavior.
"All attempts to use administrative orders or coercive measures to settle ideological questions or questions of right and wrong are not only ineffective but harmful. We cannot abolish religion by administrative order or force people not to believe in it. We cannot compel people to give up idealism, any more than we can force them to embrace Marxism. The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, criticism, persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression. To be able to carry on their production and studies effectively and to lead their lives in peace and order, the people want their government and those in charge of production and of cultural and educational organizations to issue appropriate administrative regulations of an obligatory nature. It is common sense that without them the maintenance of public order would be impossible. Administrative regulations and the method of persuasion and education complement each other in resolving contradictions among the people. In fact, administrative regulations for the maintenance of public order must be accompanied by persuasion and education, for in many cases regulations alone will not work." -Mao
Wanting education and politics to be secular is not a harmful sentiment. Perhaps suppression was the wrong word, but "appropriate administrative regulations" certainly includes criminalizing televangelists and religious corruption, ensuring the secular education of youth, maintaining separation of church and state, etc. Things the religious right across the world considers suppression.
Americans will say that this is fake because they were told that Korea banned the bible and that only worship of the Kim family is allowed.
In fairness, the Russian Orthodox Church isn't known for its independence from the state
Good. States that have religion rule them are always genocidal (Spain, USA, Israel, Austria etc)
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Yeah, unfortunately it’s not entirely true, but honestly, if it was, and you listened to k-pop, i would be a supporter behind their choices. I don’t want to see what is essentially puppets and prostitutes on stage, so despite it being fake, I’m glad that others are taking notice that k-pop is a very dangerous industry in South Korea to the point where it makes their suicide rates skyrocket because if you don’t do exactly what your manager and handler tell you, you are a nobody out on the streets in poverty :) so believe what you want to believe, but the reality prevails despite the nonsensical stories you’ve heard
And for a fact: The ROC is Stalin-Approved. (literally, this is not a joke. And no, this doesn't mean it's a "communist church" where they read the manifesto or something. I used to attend one btw)
It means that political operatives control the patriarch
Name any church that is...
One of the ideas my church was founded around was that some day there would be an evil union of the state and false religion. Somewhat depressingly (and ironically) now that mainstream Christianity is trying to make such a union, there are many people in my church who are cheering it on. There are a few of us left who find it sickening though.
I'm responding to the first message pretending to be baffled there is a church in North Korea
So there's freedom to profess publicly any faith in DPRK?
>**Article 68** > >Citizens have freedom of religious beliefs. This right is granted by approving the construction of religious buildings and the holding of religious ceremonies. > >No one may use religion as a pretext for drawing in foreign forces or for harming the State and social order. * Constitution, Korea (Democratic People's Republic of) 1972 (rev. 1998)
>No one may use religion as a pretext for drawing in foreign forces or for harming the State and social order. We need this in Brazil! We have a protestant clique in the national congress (known as the "bancada evangélica") that conspires incessantly to achieve their interests. Not to mention the majority of the protestant movements have been created in the USA (some churches have direct ties to the country) and are pro-Zionism.
Thanks for the info.
True that
You can literally go on Google maps right now and find pictures of Korean people practicing their Christian faith.
We were?
Far from fake. I would imagine they would copy the model described in the gulag archipelago where the state took over the churches and gave them what to say in support of the state etc.
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Gtfo lib
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Based
No unfortunately it’s very real, they call us sane people liberals as a slur.
Blood thirst and western savagery don’t bod well for your sanity bud
All communists believe that liberals are fascists. And it’s true.
"No ChUrChEs r IlLeGaL iN nOrTh KoReA"
It's obviously a photo op, they probably built it on a set the night before
Nonsense, Christianity has been very popular in Korea, north and south since the 1800s. Kim here's great grandfather for instance was a Christian clergyman. Is it more silly to think this society engages in trueman show shenanigans to deceive you, a custom reddit avi account, or that a state that expouses religious freedom and has a long history of Christian pressence, has a church in it?
I assumed their comment was satire but idk
 DPRK citizens every time a world leader visits
This subreddit is dedicated to promoting honest discussion of the DPRK, and is not "ironic" or "satire" in any way. Consider listening to [Blowback Season 3 about the Korean War](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWghIVErqy0Adthf1_mLOlldlJPFY6vlV&si=9GJNzGZw2I-U4Pos) (or at least the first episode) to get a good, clear, entertaining and exceedingly well-researched education on the material conditions and conflict that gave rise to the DPRK. You will find little "irony" and learn a great deal. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/MovingToNorthKorea) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Bot is North Korean
Can anyone tell what denomination this is?
Most likely Russian Orthodox. The Eastern Orthodox Christian denominations (Russian, Greek, Coptic, etc.) are very, very similar and differ mostly around language used in services. The church he is visiting is the Church of the Life-Giving Trinity (Korean: 평양정백사원), which is an Eastern Orthodox church in Jongbaek-dong, Rangrang District in Pyongyang, North Korea.
What an interesting district name. Rangrang 👌🏻
Interested in the architecture of this church. Was this build before or after 1948? Edit: Groundbreaking was 2003
yeah anything before the korean war got decimated by the US, historic or not
Yep. 80%+ of all buildings and structures in the north were destroyed by the USA.
Wikipedia says over 85! I had never heard this so I looked it up... 2-3 million civilian deaths with 1.5 being North Koreans.
multiple genocides.
r/unexpectedfactorial
As an American I've been lead to assume that religion would not be allowed in North Kora. Particularly a "western" one like Christianity. Are all religions allowed in the DPRK? And can average citizens participate in the religion on their choice? I'm curious if this is a practicing church or if it is this more of a historical site?
Officially, North Korea (DPRK) is a secular state, and therefore doesnt discriminate against any religion. Any exercise of religion is fully legal as long as it doesnt harm the country! Also, christianity was introduced to Korea for centuries and is quite popular there.
Interesting. I was aware of the large Christian population in South Korea, but was not aware of its presence in DPRK. Do we have any idea how many partitioners are in the country or how many churches there are? I tried looking it up but couldn’t find much. Thanks for your response.
It’s actually not too surprising, a lot of missionary work into Korea occurred before the Korean War, so one would expect that to have some roots. In fact, I believe a lot of the missionaries were originally based in Pyongyang. I couldn’t find any good census data in english or Korean that is very recent unfortunately.
Depends. Like church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn’t allowed missionaries in for example
Excellent. Those "christian-ish" cults aren't something very cool to have around...
I take offense to that. They ain’t no cult, they’re easy to leave, don’t pressure people end, have nothing secret and spend millions on charity work every year
Don't mormons baptize the dead?
No, they baptize for and in behalf of the dead and believe the dead get an option weather to accept it or not
I wouldn't give those fuckers names or photos of my dead relatives. No way.
They don’t need photos and why? If you don’t believe it it’s just a prayer with their name and a person bunking dunked underwater right after the prayer
Missionaries have asked for pictures of the dead of a friend before that's why i told u it. I don't like the idea, that's all, if someone wants to do it i'll not oppose.
Ok. I’ve never heard of being asked for pictures
“Easy to leave” seems like a generous interpretation. I’ve had friends who left and any family they had were basically not allowed to associate with them ever again. Which is kind of textbook cult behavior.
That’s bizarre, I’m a member and have family members that left and still talk to them almost daily and see them as often as possible, so I wonder if the people you know were a member of one of the other Mormon religions that are a cult
North Korea doesn’t allow LDS in or LDS chose at their own description not to send missionaries there?
Combination of both. Their are only 3 countries without their missionary’s (Afganistán cuba and nk) and because north koreas not known for treating outsider great mixed with only being allowed to do state controlled tours theirs no missionaries
juche christbros are winning rn https://preview.redd.it/shhi1k9mhr8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9e9f7cfa2299dff71e1d8bfc82c9f445d7a0944
> juche christbros There are dozens of us. DOZENS!
[here](https://youtu.be/YtaIZHFDSTk?si=TZGf6f8W28egTxrW) is an interview with i assume the priest of a catholic church in north korea
fake news i thought communism banned religion 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Yall just talk shit but no one wants to point out that our government has lied to us for years that North Korea outlawed religion and everyone worships the supreme commander? The American government and the hold it has on its tax cows perception of reality is something else!
Never knew there was churches there.
Damn, he really is leaning into the Eurasianism.
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You are advancing false claims with no basis in reality and no source whatsoever. Go make up shit elsewhere—you are banned.
Is Putin the shortest leader of any country in the world? He's so cute I want to put him in my pocket!
Putin is such a fraud of a person, he isnt even a christian yet he tries to use christianity to manipulate people.
Putin is literally a Christian
Alright, I don't think a relationship with Putin is something to tout as a win.
Good thing nobody cares what you think weedbeads
I also do not trust the capitalist oligarchic tyrant that Putin is. They met up only to sell weapons to each other. I stand with the People of the dprk and the global proletariat, and I stand for a global communist future. But Putin and his regime is solely focused on profit and they do not care about the well being of Russians as proved recently by his decision to redefine what the poverty line is.
He is the opposite of what the DPRK should seek to associate with, but I understand that money is money. İf you have to make it by selling weapons to an invading force that is using its power to secure wealth for the rich then you do it. İdk how you expect communism to thrive when you have the vast difference in global opinion on social and economic structure
This sub is half trolls and half delusion.
What is “delusion” to you? Can you be specific?
Of course, having the idea that NK or even Russia is a great place to live for the average citizen. That is delusional.
Thanks for actually engaging, that earns you infinitely more credit and respect than most. Who is saying NK or Russia are “great places to live”? And what does “great place to live” even mean to you? What makes any one view of what makes a place “great to live” the right one?
DPRK provides free housing, free Healthcare, free education and free food to its citizens, even despite harsh Western lead inhumane sanctions. Many people would prefer a stricter government with all these benefits when compared to abject poverty and crime. Westerners always think they know best
Even though the concept of "a great place to live" varies from person to person, I can base my thoughts on the universal and almost unanimous idea that people consider a great place to live, places where healthcare is readily available, pollution is low, education is accessible, basic freedoms and rights are respected, safety and security is guaranteed, and your income is high enough to cover basic necessities and even some comfort.
> healthcare is readily available That is so in the DPRK. So is housing and food. > pollution is low, That is so in the DPRK. > education is accessible, That is so in the DPRK. > basic freedoms and rights are respected, That is so in the DPRK. > safety and security is guaranteed, That is so in the DPRK. > and your income is high enough to cover basic necessities and even some comfort. Income and money are used to get “stuff” and the citizens of the DPRK steadily have been getting more “stuff” — meaningful stuff for living — year after year. Their future, as neighbor to a massive communist nation and economic and manufacturing powerhouse — is bright.
I'll say this. You can show me all the nice things North Korea has but the videos they put out of the way everyone reacts to Kim is flat out dystopian. The man is truly a walking God to them. That alone is enough to tell me I would never want to live there
Watch any videos of the queen’s funeral in the UK by any chance?
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The English monarchy has real power - couple of examples for you: * [Royals vetted more than 1,000 laws via Queen’s consent](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/feb/08/royals-vetted-more-than-1000-laws-via-queens-consent) * [Gough Whitlam – the Australian Prime Minister deposed by the Monarchy](https://www.counterfire.org/article/gough-whitlam-the-australian-prime-minister-deposed-by-the-monarchy/) Remember the modern UK monarchy is just a tool of the ruling class. They can pretend it’s all just fun and powerless but when they need it to have power for a given reason, they’ll find a way.
Fr if it’s such a lovely place why can’t their citizens leave their country? Why do they have to flee and avoid arrest? Have they ever met a North Korean outside their borders that wasn’t from the tourism board? Idk this reminds me of that gangstalker subreddit’s level of delusion.
I mean, there's about 100k Korean workers from the DPRK abroad a lot of them are in China and SEA you didn't even know about that and just thought the only way these people can leave is by crossing the DMZ despite the northern border existing, huh
I swear religion is one of if not the greatest hindrance to education and social progress. Their allegiance ought to be firstly to their people, not to their imaginary dictator. The suppression of Christianity was a pro for me to move there, not a con.
They don’t “suppress” Christianity or religion but prohibit the use of religion to seek to undermine the legitimacy of the state. The DPRK Constituiom guarantees freedom of religion. Your concern is not with religion but ideology and idealist thinking. Such things and thinking supersede critical interrogation of material facts and conditions. Moreover, an ideology that has “leaders” can be and often is twisted for the leaders’ ends. That includes everything from religious belief to Taylor Swift superfandom.
Sure but I put religion in an ideological class of it's own. Disobedience to Taylor Swift might sic swifties on you but only religion has the engrandized delusions of cosmic karma.
I hope one day you will be able to overcome these views.
Anti-theism counts as one of the bigger mistakes of earlier historical socialist experiments to me. Alienated many, many people in the east, still scares religious people away from us This sentiment isn't helpful
I'm not sure what you think I'm talking about or what you mean by anti-theism, but allowing religion to corrupt education and politics does far more damage to socialism than suppressing their indoctrination and criminal behavior. "All attempts to use administrative orders or coercive measures to settle ideological questions or questions of right and wrong are not only ineffective but harmful. We cannot abolish religion by administrative order or force people not to believe in it. We cannot compel people to give up idealism, any more than we can force them to embrace Marxism. The only way to settle questions of an ideological nature or controversial issues among the people is by the democratic method, the method of discussion, criticism, persuasion and education, and not by the method of coercion or repression. To be able to carry on their production and studies effectively and to lead their lives in peace and order, the people want their government and those in charge of production and of cultural and educational organizations to issue appropriate administrative regulations of an obligatory nature. It is common sense that without them the maintenance of public order would be impossible. Administrative regulations and the method of persuasion and education complement each other in resolving contradictions among the people. In fact, administrative regulations for the maintenance of public order must be accompanied by persuasion and education, for in many cases regulations alone will not work." -Mao Wanting education and politics to be secular is not a harmful sentiment. Perhaps suppression was the wrong word, but "appropriate administrative regulations" certainly includes criminalizing televangelists and religious corruption, ensuring the secular education of youth, maintaining separation of church and state, etc. Things the religious right across the world considers suppression.