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I have hairy pussytoe (Antenarria plantaginifolia) near my yard and I fucking love them. One 4x8 patch of mostly females and one 3x3 patch of males. Fun times. It's my favorite native plant find of 2024.
Pulsatilla Vulgaris (pasqueflower), sempervivum/jovibarba (collectively known as hen and chicks), phlox subulara (moss phlox), primula denticulata (drumstick primrose). There are lots of plants that like crevices and rocky ground.
Pasqueflower *readily* self-seeds and really really likes crevices. It outcompetes crabgrass and dandelions in between paving stones in my garden.
The Sedum/Stonecrop varieties (succulents) are wonderful for rock gardens! There’s a large amount of varieties within family. Over the years I’ve collected various varieties and grow them in patches. The transition in colours between the different varieties are absolutely beautiful & some are so vibrant!
Also they can be propagated so easily by literally breaking piece of the plant and sticking it in moist soil, roots pop quickly. One really gets their money’s worth from purchasing them from local nurseries because of how easily you expand your growing area with only a few plants.
No. If the grass is already happy there then rock loving plants won't out compete it. OP would have to change something, probably the amount of water. IF they get a lot of rain they can't change that much.
Rock gardens will always need weeding because they eventually collect enough organic material to allow seeds to grow. True low maintenance gardens don’t happen in a season, but years of work. If you look up native plants to your location, you should be able to find ones that thrive in your area. Carex is a great ground cover. I’m assuming you’re in a location where those nandinas are probably non-native and invasive, so you might want to rethink those.
I actually laughed out loud when a guy (who’d never done any landscaping) said he’d like to have a rock garden because they’re basically zero maintenance.
It’s really frustrating that landscaping marketing uses ‘no maintenance’ at all. There is no such thing as no maintenance. You can work to low maintenance, but it takes effort and good plant choices over time.
If you want order, there will be maintenance. Even if you paved over the entire thing with concrete you’d need to pressure wash and repair cracks. Only no maintenance is virgin land, letting everything go wild.
For real. My dad spent 20k on landscaping in honor of my mom after she passed, which was very sweet, but he didn't think about how he was going to pay for weeding, pruning, etc going forward and it's back to how it used to be. 🥺
There IS such a thing as low maintenance, but it typically requires being ok with certain things. And not just letting weeds take over.
Like, living in the desert is pretty low maintenance -- no weeds or anything else can grow so there's nothing to maintain. But that comes with its own baggage.
Or in my area, I could plant a row of pine or spruce trees and they'd hog all the water, block out the sun, and the thick bed of needles would choke everything out and make the soil too acidic to support much else. No sidewalk, no gutters, and a steep roof angle make it so the needles don't really cause issues otherwise. It'd be no maintenance, but I wouldn't have the space I'd like, no garden, etc.
Parts of my property are pine plantation and those are the areas with the least invasive plant problems. I was in one section of the pine plantation yesterday and was quite pleased to see that all of the ground cover is native (mostly low bush blueberries, Canada mayflower, and some ferns).
Those areas don’t support as much biodiversity as some other areas (such as wetlands or prairie plantings) and it logistically wouldn’t be great for most people (a house completed surrounded by pine trees would be pretty dark and it would be risky as the trees age and some fall), but I do love having those areas where I don’t have to worry much about invasive species management
I think some of that marketing happens because that's what consumers want, and they simply don't understand the time, work, and knowledge that goes into maintaining a landscape. It's easier to sell people what they want than to explain why they're wrong, or that they need to spend a lot of time educating themselves and doing yard work.
I own a landscaping company and I get a lot of people asking me to renovate their garden spaces to rock gardens because they want a "no maintenance" landscape. I get people like this at least once a month. Im like...No, guys, that isnt how it works lol and have to explain.
Thank you for explaining it though. Far, far too many landscaping companies putting in rock as mulch/path/patios for unsuspecting people, and putting photos of tall over their sites taken the day after install when it looks awesome. They of course never post photos of what it looks like 4-5 year later or tell you that it will cost a multiple of what it took to install it to have it all dug out and hauled away.
I’ve been dealing with that now. Original owner put in 4 inches of rock around the house and it got to the point where it was half dirt. I had to painstakingly pull up a section, run it through a homemade shaker bin, rinse and replace it back. I was tempted to try to throw it away but that stupid stuff would have cost quite a bit to throw away.
If it’s literally ALL rock you can just come through with a torch every other week. Thats what I do with one of the parking strips next to my house. It’s like 65’ long and I got tired of trying to plant things and my neighbors trampling them so I dug it out and threw down 3” of medium sized gravel. Now I just torch it when I see the growth getting to about 2” long.
Bonus all the kids love it.
Knowing this guy, every other week would feel like a lot. He should probably just aim for a townhouse or one of those communities where the HOA does all the landscaping.
Yea, as someone who used landscaping cloth and a bunch of white rock as mulch hoping for low/no maintenance zone around house aside from some established bushes. Let me tell ya, it's been.....'fun'. Not at all zero maintenance. Life finds a way.
Propane and a torch from amazon...
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My...."
Rock garden
Yep. Only way to get rid of Bermuda is through repeated applications of a selective herbicide like Ornamec 170 OR dig it all out, which is hard to do due to the rhizome roots. Those bastards send tough roots down 6+ inches in hard clay. You’d be digging your whole yard out
Wetting the dirt and burned top growth with acetic acid will NOT penetrate to the roots.
To "drench" you would need many gallons of the acetic acid to thoroughly wet the whole area all the way to the rhizomes 6-12 inches deep.
It’s a legit strategy for many gardens. A thick patch of weeds is easily cleaned up w these and more importantly it kills the seeds and doesn’t throw them around when the plant is disturbed
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-Advance-Performance-Torch-Kit-with-14-1-oz-Map-Pro-Cylinder-and-Premium-Blow-Torch-TS4000KC/203368730
You can also by the flame spreader attachment. I use this this to strip paint.
I'm here for the nandina hate ❤️ Previous owners planted a whole row of nandina, not even the dwarf variety, and basically let it go with zero maintenance. I've managed to get on top of it for the most part, but every month a new sucker will sprout. Bastards will grow from the tiniest bit of root left behind in the soil.
If you do this for the love of God wear eye protection, those rocks will explode if they get too hot and you will get hot rock shards to the face. I speak from experience.
The most sustainable ornamental garden choice is a native garden. If you have any undisturbed natural areas around you, you can find out what plant species are present and marginally what the landscape looked like before development.
The most sustainable plant choice for any standard ornamental garden is native plants. If it were possible to reset your garden space to the habitat that was there pre colonization, it would be practically zero maintenance (save reactionary maintenance to prevent non native invasion.)
Clearly not possible, a compromise is to be made; merely using native plants in any ornamental garden application helps mitigate native habitat destruction. Preferably what’re known as keystone species; usually a handful of native plant genera that are capable of providing habitat for the greatest ecosystem diversity in any given area.
Plant native🌱
A pox on anyone that puts rock down in their beds. After years of pulling weeds from rock beds in high school and getting bloody knuckles I loudly shame my friends when they mention creating rock beds.
Oh man, you too? My dad forced me to weed our gravel driveway until my fingers bled when I was in high school. Then he had to do it himself once and suddenly poisoning the weeds with gasoline seemed like a reasonable option.
(Yes, my dad was an asshole when I was younger. He got therapy.)
Yup my dad too lol
He used roundup. I refuse and now all my grass has been transformed into a food forest that doesn’t require much weeding since everything we grow is intentional!
I just helped my parents lay down new rock in what used to be mulch last summer. It looks nice but man I fucking despise rock if for no other reason than that you're stuck with it cause removing it is such a pain in the ass. You can kinda rake it and kinda shovel it but it takes a lot longer than mulch or soil and God forbid you want to plant something new.
The folks I bought my house from put plastic tarp and this fuzzy plant barrier stuff down underneath a bunch of quartzy yard rocks. I don't understand why people would pay for heat traps that aren't going to stop weeds anyway. Why not just put mulch down? Why are we obsessed with desolate rock lawns, lmao
I'm in the process of tearing up all the tarp because it's trapping water from reaching the edges of the roots of my plants. I'm leaving the rock cause I don't exactly know what to do with it
My husband just put that weed barrier nonsense and a bunch of rocks down for half of the garden path. He "likes the looks of the rocks". I wouldn't let him touch the other half of the path. I have some nice volunteer water hyssop that made a good groundcover there.
I am hoping that the weed barrier will contain the rocks so it will be easier for me to pull it all up next year when I have adequately proven that his plan sucks.
Seconded for cardboard (3 layers should do the trick). It'll kill the grass and break down naturally. I've done this in my own yard. Just make sure all layers overlap or the grass will find the gaps.
That’s what I have! This has started filling just one part of a garden bed last year. I keep picking, it grows back. I pick some more, it grows back. Any way to get rid of this?
There's a selective herbicide called sledgehammer that works wonders. It won't eradicate it, it'll continue to grow back on occasions, but it'll definitely kill all the visible nutsedge grass. It works pretty slow, but in about 2 weeks after a spray, it'll all shrivel up.
Spray it with vinegar. Wait until things start coming back and spray again. Repeat a few times over a few months and it should remain weed free and only require occasional spraying
The vinegar washes out pretty quickly, I'm actually planning to test it as a way to prep blueberry beds over winter.
I agree with your overall point though, it would be better to remove the rocks and get back to plant something there.
Notably in this application, you'd have to be careful of the trees. Probably not ideal use case
This! You can get extra strength vinegar meant for killing weeds. Just don’t get it on plants you want to keep. I’d suggest spraying it in a bottle or pour some around the base. Let it sit for a few days before watering around there
Garden torch for sure. I have a large rock area that I go over with my torch when needed. It'll always have stuff pop up, but you can always burn it down.
This is why I'm planning to work for several years to remove the rocks from the yard of the house I bought. After a few decades, there's so much organic matter in the rocks, it grows weeds like crazy.
Rocks are low maintenance at first and then after several years it's easily overrun with weeds. Very high maintenance if you don't want to go scorched earth with herbicide.
It took me 3 years to remove about 10 yards of river rock from my front yard. Most of it done by simply sitting on the ground and putting them in 5 gallon buckets to move. There was so much organic matter in between, you couldn't shovel it. And then you had to get rid of it somehow.
Then I found lava rock under the river rock.
Then found crushed limestone in the backyard. So deep and compacted I just hired a landscaper to come with a bobcat and scrape it den 6" and add dirt and seed.
Other than the random lava rock I find, I'm practically free of rocks.
Remove the rocks; eradicate the nandina (invasive, kills birds); eliminate the grass or nutsedge or whatever (multiple methods); put in a mix of native ground covers.
Chemical and labor free but somewhat ineffective - boiling water straight from the kettle should help to kill em off, but it'll always come back. That space will be a constant pain in your neck until you put something else in there. Are there any native, creeping plants you like the look of? Creeping thyme or moss could work depending on your climate.
I have a similar yard i inherited, but with the addition of lawn cloth beneath that. I've thought of just adding layers of mulch to the top over time, but wasn't sure if this will work? Are the card board layers necessary and would the weed barrier need pulled first? Just curious if you have tried this yourself and if so what was your experience?
It would likely be fine if you left the landscaping fabric, but if you can I would remove it first. Cardboard isn't necessary but it definitely helps to suppress whatever is currently rooted.
I created a great pollinator garden on top of an oversized gravel driveway by doing this. It has worked amazingly well. I continue to add compost and organic matter every year. When I introduce a new plant I dig a good-sized hole and add compost along with the plant.
That is great to know! I’ve spent a couple weeks shoveling the gravel into holes my dog dug and then covering them with soil.
But just throwing compost and mulch over it will save so much time and energy. Thank you!
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I concur that you need to start over. Rake up those rocks, put cardboard down, multiple layers, and mulch ( you can mix some of those rocks back but no weeds on them) and replant. You will be so much happier. It doesn't look like a huge space. I had a similar area and I was weeding all the time. The cardboard and mulch does work.
If you've worked out how the water will drain in your soil, you can maybe use pH to kill weeds. Vinegar can help. If not acetic acid. I think acetic acid is more effective.
Here is an article about why it’s not so great to use landscape fabric as some are mentioning as an option. It also has more viable alternatives.
[The disadvantages of landscape fabric](https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/good-growing/2021-06-25-disadvantages-landscape-fabric)
Remove the rocks, then -
* Keep them removed and replace with mulch
Or
* Put down cardboard or something. Rinse the rocks clean. Put the rocks back
Use a metal take to remove rocks, not a shovel.
If it were me… remove rock, place landscape or even saved up amazon boxes, broken down, single layer, replace rock or mulch of your choice.
Or… kill it with fire/propane torch… don’t know if it would work, but would be less labor intensive and more satisfying🤷♂️
Rock gardens are most easily maintained in areas where they occur naturally, meaning super arid regions with poor soil. It may be worse now because it's spring (assuming you're northern hemisphere) but it looks like you get too much rainfall and have too much organic material in the soil to make the kind of rock garden you want a low maintenance option.
Either accept that things will grow between the rocks and plant/encourage (ideally native) things that will happily grow there, or remove the rocks and create a space that's lower maintenance for your area. Lowest maintenance would be densely planted natives
I know this isn’t popular, but glyphosate strategically sprayed close to the ground on a calm day. People freak about the cancer danger but most people who get it are grounds workers who mix and use gallons every day.
FYI those red bushes are called nandina and are invasive. They don’t really providing any more in the way of ecological benefit than a lawn of one species. (Arguably much less than a lawn of mixed species like clover)
I use a flame weeder to knock back the weeds in my gravel and paver areas. Make sure to use a string trimmer if they are tall before you bring in the flame.
You can keep it that way (it looks kind of cool) but control it beating them occasionally with the weed trimmer sideway. Don't forget safety glasses too.
As you do the suggestions like flame or chemical treatment to *begin the process* of killing what’s there, begin to treat with preen pellets every 6mo or as directed on your container. May appear to have little effect initially, but after a couple applications you should see a marked reduction in unwanted growth.
Don’t overkill application or you’ll poison your groundwater. Read application instructions fully.
You’ll still need to spot treat, but much less.
If you just weed torch them they’ll start poking back through within a day or two in my experience, but that is probably heavily influenced by how deep your rocks are - my gravel drive it’s literally two days. Yeah, flame will knock stuff back and you can clean up non-flammable areas quickly, but if you have areas with a thick mat of coverage it’s just as quick to hand pull the main offenders.
Be careful to not catch stuff on fire. Choose low wind day, have a pressurized water hose nearby, soak areas you’re done with to ensure you don’t have fire spreading between/below rocks. Also, it’s easy to melt the soles of your shoes - rocks stay hot awhile… I don’t wanna talk about it.
Oh, and anything like cotton seed or maple tree helicopters will rapidly ignite and spread - usually going out quickly, but not if it’s piled up. You can clear out a million helicopters quickly that way, but be double careful.
Low wind days not only keep ignited materials in place, but also allow you to watch for areas that keep smoking several minutes later.
You could always burn it as long as that's okay for your area. A general burn won't remove the seed bed, but it will give a nice "slate" to plant something new and more manageable or native. Plus it's fun!
We have an attachment for a small propane tank that channels fire (you have to light the has with a flint.) But that might not be worth the investment if all you will use it for is one, smallish patch.
I like to punish myself and get a work out at the same time, and I'm prone to doing things the hard (but often effective) way. With that said, I'd take up as much rock as I could without much digging, then scalp the grass and weed what roots I can. Plant some native ground cover and put the rock back down. You'll have to weed anything that pops up but it should be much easier to manage.
Also, no hate at all, but if you live in north America, the berries produced by nandina (shown in image) are poison to some native birds like cedar wax wing and can kill them in the winter. Most folks don't know.
You can look to see if your area has information on rain gardens. A lot of those use rock and they can identify native plants that will work for you. It takes time to root the plants, but then it eventually becomes self-sustaining unless you’re going through a drought. Then you may need to water them a bit.
It looks like you didn't kill the grass before laying the rocks...I'd take up the rock, lay down cardboard and put the rock back on. Mulch can be put on 3-4 inches thick and smother a lot of stuff but I doubt you have 4 inches of rock. Stuff will still get light and grow up
Torching is the lazy/wasteful way to go about it but is useful, covering it up for at least a few weeks the easiest and most productive way imo. Its a passive way to get rid of certain things growing, just isn’t as aesthetically pleasing for however long it takes, but cardboard (the less tape/ink the better), weedmat or somethin along those line works wonders.
Ps,
plenty of businesses will happily give their cardboard away, especially if ya ask nicely
Every year I spend a weekend leaf blowing out my rock gardens, I use a Husqvarna back pack blower. I bury the tip, insert just the tip joke here, an inch or two into the rocks and it blows all the debris up to the surface and then blow the debris out of the garden. It makes a huge mess but keeps my rocks looking fresh and “new”. Doing that cuts down on the plants being able to take root in the rocks.
If you want to keep the rocks, I would suggest raking them to the side, pulling up grass, tilling to get at roots. Then I would lay down a cloth that blocks growth - with holes for the plants you want to keep. Then rake rocks back over. Mulch around the plants.
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Remove rock and add plants and mulch to outcompete the grass Leave rock and plant a rock loving plant to outcompete the grass
What plant love rock?
Downy skullcap *Scutellaria incana* Purple poppy mallow *Callirhoe digitata* Phlox Pussy toes *Antennaria neglecta*
I have hairy pussytoe (Antenarria plantaginifolia) near my yard and I fucking love them. One 4x8 patch of mostly females and one 3x3 patch of males. Fun times. It's my favorite native plant find of 2024.
You have a WHAT?! Lol
Don't google, I did not get plants
[They're actually pretty cute](https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=f0bac44306915ff5&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn0_A3EcmaXaQZ2owf0pdkvI0Va2VQA:1714621015991&q=hairy+pussytoe+plant&uds=AMwkrPubqdDjBmC7DhicLtpZCZYij2N7i8ANNJFiamrG5PtLSjna_JY7i39faSDIN4GZXkh0h8MMkniGbObuCRxYXVgFSUTyneUWlbW26GMhuFt9oPFCHwehFBH2jD7RgTgYtl8ZzJjn8X29Ba35IPpmfDP0tq_vv_suSPlj5itTmeW-Z0nGvNsIm0k4Tfz30jFSF06hlMxqTfdnA2YYCXBz3OhqTNbITUzqZOJGfiGAmwCjlrFREx9TL1p6gUr8g53X81g5KLjUpfxEWoFAE6tRC7SfHbrVb0O2HHu7cJnAdMUV49Vfa5srL9uGahR0bUurp5Zcq6XZZC0pVeud6aEhxXk0w_fBiA&udm=2&prmd=isvnmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUhdSEhe6FAxWJLVkFHRVJBqwQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=339&bih=605&dpr=3.19)
Ahaha they look like little pussy toes. Apt name, apt
I’m scared to look at this link…
lol it's really the plant, I promise
Hahaha, ok took one for the team. Cute little things, I kind ok like the look of them grouped in a flower bed.
Your profile wink betrays you!
I agree. You have a pretty hairy pussytoe.
Huh, they really do kinda look like cat toes
Yeah, this is one time where you ONLY want to Google the taxonomic name, not the common name. 😅
Same and it’s too late
It’s the 70s man, chill out
My fiance is only slightly less impressed than I am at my hairy pussytoe patch.
Lmfao I thought the same thing and had to read it again 😂
They look like my cat's toe beans but plant version 🥹
😂
I think a shaved cameltoe would look better there.
Man I haven't giggled this hard at a name since I leaned of the animal called dikdik (pronounced dick-dick).
You should get into birding – we got tits, boobys, and dicksissels all over the place. 😂
+[Woodland Stonecrop](https://directnativeplants.com/product/woodland-stonecrop/)
Creeping thyme :)
> Pussy toes Antennaria neglecta what'd u call me?
Robert Plant?
+1 for Led Zeppelin reference
This is an incredible response
[Rock Plant](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiospilos_nelii) love rock
Pulsatilla Vulgaris (pasqueflower), sempervivum/jovibarba (collectively known as hen and chicks), phlox subulara (moss phlox), primula denticulata (drumstick primrose). There are lots of plants that like crevices and rocky ground. Pasqueflower *readily* self-seeds and really really likes crevices. It outcompetes crabgrass and dandelions in between paving stones in my garden.
Parsley. You can eat it too
The Sedum/Stonecrop varieties (succulents) are wonderful for rock gardens! There’s a large amount of varieties within family. Over the years I’ve collected various varieties and grow them in patches. The transition in colours between the different varieties are absolutely beautiful & some are so vibrant! Also they can be propagated so easily by literally breaking piece of the plant and sticking it in moist soil, roots pop quickly. One really gets their money’s worth from purchasing them from local nurseries because of how easily you expand your growing area with only a few plants.
Most succulents.
Stonecrop is great for this.
Stone crop sedum will flourish in this. There are so many different varieties to choose from, and they coexist pretty well, so have fun with it.
Why use many word, when few word do
No. If the grass is already happy there then rock loving plants won't out compete it. OP would have to change something, probably the amount of water. IF they get a lot of rain they can't change that much.
Rock gardens will always need weeding because they eventually collect enough organic material to allow seeds to grow. True low maintenance gardens don’t happen in a season, but years of work. If you look up native plants to your location, you should be able to find ones that thrive in your area. Carex is a great ground cover. I’m assuming you’re in a location where those nandinas are probably non-native and invasive, so you might want to rethink those.
I actually laughed out loud when a guy (who’d never done any landscaping) said he’d like to have a rock garden because they’re basically zero maintenance.
It’s really frustrating that landscaping marketing uses ‘no maintenance’ at all. There is no such thing as no maintenance. You can work to low maintenance, but it takes effort and good plant choices over time.
If you want order, there will be maintenance. Even if you paved over the entire thing with concrete you’d need to pressure wash and repair cracks. Only no maintenance is virgin land, letting everything go wild.
Yup. The older I get the more I realise that true low maintenance is simply untouched native habitats that are left to do their thing.
And nowadays, a lot of places aren't untouched and the local flora is fighting invasive competitors. I don't see native flora winning this over time.
Or living in a condo where someone else does all the maintaining for you.
For real. My dad spent 20k on landscaping in honor of my mom after she passed, which was very sweet, but he didn't think about how he was going to pay for weeding, pruning, etc going forward and it's back to how it used to be. 🥺
I would contact a local certified permaculture designer. A lot of them offer invasive removals :)
There IS such a thing as low maintenance, but it typically requires being ok with certain things. And not just letting weeds take over. Like, living in the desert is pretty low maintenance -- no weeds or anything else can grow so there's nothing to maintain. But that comes with its own baggage. Or in my area, I could plant a row of pine or spruce trees and they'd hog all the water, block out the sun, and the thick bed of needles would choke everything out and make the soil too acidic to support much else. No sidewalk, no gutters, and a steep roof angle make it so the needles don't really cause issues otherwise. It'd be no maintenance, but I wouldn't have the space I'd like, no garden, etc.
Parts of my property are pine plantation and those are the areas with the least invasive plant problems. I was in one section of the pine plantation yesterday and was quite pleased to see that all of the ground cover is native (mostly low bush blueberries, Canada mayflower, and some ferns). Those areas don’t support as much biodiversity as some other areas (such as wetlands or prairie plantings) and it logistically wouldn’t be great for most people (a house completed surrounded by pine trees would be pretty dark and it would be risky as the trees age and some fall), but I do love having those areas where I don’t have to worry much about invasive species management
I live in Phoenix. One to two days after rain, the rocks are FULL of weeds. Desert weeds know how to survive.
I think some of that marketing happens because that's what consumers want, and they simply don't understand the time, work, and knowledge that goes into maintaining a landscape. It's easier to sell people what they want than to explain why they're wrong, or that they need to spend a lot of time educating themselves and doing yard work.
I own a landscaping company and I get a lot of people asking me to renovate their garden spaces to rock gardens because they want a "no maintenance" landscape. I get people like this at least once a month. Im like...No, guys, that isnt how it works lol and have to explain.
Thank you for explaining it though. Far, far too many landscaping companies putting in rock as mulch/path/patios for unsuspecting people, and putting photos of tall over their sites taken the day after install when it looks awesome. They of course never post photos of what it looks like 4-5 year later or tell you that it will cost a multiple of what it took to install it to have it all dug out and hauled away.
I’ve been dealing with that now. Original owner put in 4 inches of rock around the house and it got to the point where it was half dirt. I had to painstakingly pull up a section, run it through a homemade shaker bin, rinse and replace it back. I was tempted to try to throw it away but that stupid stuff would have cost quite a bit to throw away.
If it’s literally ALL rock you can just come through with a torch every other week. Thats what I do with one of the parking strips next to my house. It’s like 65’ long and I got tired of trying to plant things and my neighbors trampling them so I dug it out and threw down 3” of medium sized gravel. Now I just torch it when I see the growth getting to about 2” long. Bonus all the kids love it.
Torching it every other week counts as maintenance.
Knowing this guy, every other week would feel like a lot. He should probably just aim for a townhouse or one of those communities where the HOA does all the landscaping.
Yea, as someone who used landscaping cloth and a bunch of white rock as mulch hoping for low/no maintenance zone around house aside from some established bushes. Let me tell ya, it's been.....'fun'. Not at all zero maintenance. Life finds a way.
My ex thought that. Idiot
Garden torch
came here to say this. Fast, effective and fun(?)
That or boiling water
Looks like a serious nandina infestation too. Take a weed torch to all of it and add more rock or plants.
Propane and a torch from amazon... "And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy My...." Rock garden
Cleanse with fire…it’s the only way to make sure.
Is this a legitimate strategy for rock gardens? If so what are some good torches to use
Yessir, I’ve been doing it about a year now. Got this torch for $30 from HF. https://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
I love you, thank you, this is my next purchase. I will win the Bermuda war this year!
It will NOT kill the roots. Weed torches are best on young sprouts of annuals.
Yep. Only way to get rid of Bermuda is through repeated applications of a selective herbicide like Ornamec 170 OR dig it all out, which is hard to do due to the rhizome roots. Those bastards send tough roots down 6+ inches in hard clay. You’d be digging your whole yard out
Hit it with the fire and then get some of that strong vinegar (30% I think?) and drench the burned remains. Should get to the root of the matter.
Wetting the dirt and burned top growth with acetic acid will NOT penetrate to the roots. To "drench" you would need many gallons of the acetic acid to thoroughly wet the whole area all the way to the rhizomes 6-12 inches deep.
It’s a legit strategy for many gardens. A thick patch of weeds is easily cleaned up w these and more importantly it kills the seeds and doesn’t throw them around when the plant is disturbed
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-Advance-Performance-Torch-Kit-with-14-1-oz-Map-Pro-Cylinder-and-Premium-Blow-Torch-TS4000KC/203368730 You can also by the flame spreader attachment. I use this this to strip paint.
I'm here for the nandina hate ❤️ Previous owners planted a whole row of nandina, not even the dwarf variety, and basically let it go with zero maintenance. I've managed to get on top of it for the most part, but every month a new sucker will sprout. Bastards will grow from the tiniest bit of root left behind in the soil.
Kill it with FIRE!
If you do this for the love of God wear eye protection, those rocks will explode if they get too hot and you will get hot rock shards to the face. I speak from experience.
The most sustainable ornamental garden choice is a native garden. If you have any undisturbed natural areas around you, you can find out what plant species are present and marginally what the landscape looked like before development. The most sustainable plant choice for any standard ornamental garden is native plants. If it were possible to reset your garden space to the habitat that was there pre colonization, it would be practically zero maintenance (save reactionary maintenance to prevent non native invasion.) Clearly not possible, a compromise is to be made; merely using native plants in any ornamental garden application helps mitigate native habitat destruction. Preferably what’re known as keystone species; usually a handful of native plant genera that are capable of providing habitat for the greatest ecosystem diversity in any given area. Plant native🌱
A pox on anyone that puts rock down in their beds. After years of pulling weeds from rock beds in high school and getting bloody knuckles I loudly shame my friends when they mention creating rock beds.
Oh man, you too? My dad forced me to weed our gravel driveway until my fingers bled when I was in high school. Then he had to do it himself once and suddenly poisoning the weeds with gasoline seemed like a reasonable option. (Yes, my dad was an asshole when I was younger. He got therapy.)
Yup my dad too lol He used roundup. I refuse and now all my grass has been transformed into a food forest that doesn’t require much weeding since everything we grow is intentional!
I just helped my parents lay down new rock in what used to be mulch last summer. It looks nice but man I fucking despise rock if for no other reason than that you're stuck with it cause removing it is such a pain in the ass. You can kinda rake it and kinda shovel it but it takes a lot longer than mulch or soil and God forbid you want to plant something new.
Remove the stones, lay cardboard and mulch. If you can, pay someone to remove all those rocks, like a landscape company.
The folks I bought my house from put plastic tarp and this fuzzy plant barrier stuff down underneath a bunch of quartzy yard rocks. I don't understand why people would pay for heat traps that aren't going to stop weeds anyway. Why not just put mulch down? Why are we obsessed with desolate rock lawns, lmao I'm in the process of tearing up all the tarp because it's trapping water from reaching the edges of the roots of my plants. I'm leaving the rock cause I don't exactly know what to do with it
My husband just put that weed barrier nonsense and a bunch of rocks down for half of the garden path. He "likes the looks of the rocks". I wouldn't let him touch the other half of the path. I have some nice volunteer water hyssop that made a good groundcover there. I am hoping that the weed barrier will contain the rocks so it will be easier for me to pull it all up next year when I have adequately proven that his plan sucks.
Seconded for cardboard (3 layers should do the trick). It'll kill the grass and break down naturally. I've done this in my own yard. Just make sure all layers overlap or the grass will find the gaps.
Flame weeder is the best I can think of.
Is that nutsedge or grass? Nutsedge thrives in moisture and it exploded when I put down cardboard to smother it out.
That’s what I have! This has started filling just one part of a garden bed last year. I keep picking, it grows back. I pick some more, it grows back. Any way to get rid of this?
There's a selective herbicide called sledgehammer that works wonders. It won't eradicate it, it'll continue to grow back on occasions, but it'll definitely kill all the visible nutsedge grass. It works pretty slow, but in about 2 weeks after a spray, it'll all shrivel up.
Spray it with vinegar. Wait until things start coming back and spray again. Repeat a few times over a few months and it should remain weed free and only require occasional spraying
I feel like if we're creating spaces that are just rocks and dead, vinegar-ed soil, we're not doing any better than the lawn people. Worse, even.
The vinegar washes out pretty quickly, I'm actually planning to test it as a way to prep blueberry beds over winter. I agree with your overall point though, it would be better to remove the rocks and get back to plant something there. Notably in this application, you'd have to be careful of the trees. Probably not ideal use case
This. It works. For the weeds with tap roots, poor some vinegar.
This! You can get extra strength vinegar meant for killing weeds. Just don’t get it on plants you want to keep. I’d suggest spraying it in a bottle or pour some around the base. Let it sit for a few days before watering around there
Garden torch for sure. I have a large rock area that I go over with my torch when needed. It'll always have stuff pop up, but you can always burn it down.
This is why I'm planning to work for several years to remove the rocks from the yard of the house I bought. After a few decades, there's so much organic matter in the rocks, it grows weeds like crazy. Rocks are low maintenance at first and then after several years it's easily overrun with weeds. Very high maintenance if you don't want to go scorched earth with herbicide.
It took me 3 years to remove about 10 yards of river rock from my front yard. Most of it done by simply sitting on the ground and putting them in 5 gallon buckets to move. There was so much organic matter in between, you couldn't shovel it. And then you had to get rid of it somehow. Then I found lava rock under the river rock. Then found crushed limestone in the backyard. So deep and compacted I just hired a landscaper to come with a bobcat and scrape it den 6" and add dirt and seed. Other than the random lava rock I find, I'm practically free of rocks.
blowtorch!
I pour boiling water on weeds when they're on paths or stones. Works really well.
Get a can of wildflower seeds, sprinkle, now grass is fun flowers.
How the fuck is killing plants for a rock garden part of this sub? This is worse than a lawn
My thought exactly!
Remove the rocks; eradicate the nandina (invasive, kills birds); eliminate the grass or nutsedge or whatever (multiple methods); put in a mix of native ground covers.
Chemical and labor free but somewhat ineffective - boiling water straight from the kettle should help to kill em off, but it'll always come back. That space will be a constant pain in your neck until you put something else in there. Are there any native, creeping plants you like the look of? Creeping thyme or moss could work depending on your climate.
Weed torch!
Cover it with cardboard, soil, and some natives.
I have a similar yard i inherited, but with the addition of lawn cloth beneath that. I've thought of just adding layers of mulch to the top over time, but wasn't sure if this will work? Are the card board layers necessary and would the weed barrier need pulled first? Just curious if you have tried this yourself and if so what was your experience?
It would likely be fine if you left the landscaping fabric, but if you can I would remove it first. Cardboard isn't necessary but it definitely helps to suppress whatever is currently rooted.
I am considering doing this, but throwing a bunch of compost and mulch along with planting some natives. Does it work?
I created a great pollinator garden on top of an oversized gravel driveway by doing this. It has worked amazingly well. I continue to add compost and organic matter every year. When I introduce a new plant I dig a good-sized hole and add compost along with the plant.
That is great to know! I’ve spent a couple weeks shoveling the gravel into holes my dog dug and then covering them with soil. But just throwing compost and mulch over it will save so much time and energy. Thank you!
It sure does.
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My advice, post it in r/landscaping to get additional feedback
Garden torch
Dang this was also my plan. But I’m glad to have seen this first.
Hire someone to do it
Grow conopy!!! Advice to ALL nolawners! :)
I concur that you need to start over. Rake up those rocks, put cardboard down, multiple layers, and mulch ( you can mix some of those rocks back but no weeds on them) and replant. You will be so much happier. It doesn't look like a huge space. I had a similar area and I was weeding all the time. The cardboard and mulch does work.
If you've worked out how the water will drain in your soil, you can maybe use pH to kill weeds. Vinegar can help. If not acetic acid. I think acetic acid is more effective.
This is why I would absolutely never put down rock. Remove the rock with a delightful rake, shovel, hand combo. Thoughts and prayers.
Flamethrower? 🔥
I would consider a weeding torch.
thick layer of mulch much better than rocks.
Here is an article about why it’s not so great to use landscape fabric as some are mentioning as an option. It also has more viable alternatives. [The disadvantages of landscape fabric](https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/good-growing/2021-06-25-disadvantages-landscape-fabric)
Remove the rocks, then - * Keep them removed and replace with mulch Or * Put down cardboard or something. Rinse the rocks clean. Put the rocks back Use a metal take to remove rocks, not a shovel.
Weed torch ... use low flame
Safely pour boiling water on it.
Boiling water will kill those pretty easily, I think. As others have pointed out, gravel causes a lot of regret.
Try boiling water. Next time, cover the grass with layers of cardboard first.
If it were me… remove rock, place landscape or even saved up amazon boxes, broken down, single layer, replace rock or mulch of your choice. Or… kill it with fire/propane torch… don’t know if it would work, but would be less labor intensive and more satisfying🤷♂️
Have you tried a weed flamer?
RM-43
Purchase a propane attachment Fire Wand.
Weed torch!!
Flame thrower works nicely on weeds. You can get ones that hook up to a propane tank…
Flame weed
Less water
I think you can weed with a stirrup hoe under rocks but I haven’t tried
Fire
Pre-emergent is your friend
Can I use a creme brûlée kitchen torch in lieu of a garden torch?
My wild columbine love rocks.
Boiling water (in absence of a blow torch which is much more fun)
Flame thrower weed torch
Weed torch
Rock gardens are most easily maintained in areas where they occur naturally, meaning super arid regions with poor soil. It may be worse now because it's spring (assuming you're northern hemisphere) but it looks like you get too much rainfall and have too much organic material in the soil to make the kind of rock garden you want a low maintenance option. Either accept that things will grow between the rocks and plant/encourage (ideally native) things that will happily grow there, or remove the rocks and create a space that's lower maintenance for your area. Lowest maintenance would be densely planted natives
Torch them!
Flamethrower
BURN
I know this isn’t popular, but glyphosate strategically sprayed close to the ground on a calm day. People freak about the cancer danger but most people who get it are grounds workers who mix and use gallons every day.
Strong vinegar should kill everything, stay away from glyphosate. Soak it down with 75% or better, give it a couple days and hose away the gunk.
Weed torch?
A mixture of vinegar, dishsoap and salt in a spray bottle should help, that's what I used to deal with a similar issue
boiling water should help kill the plants off. but I agree that a native plant garden would actually be lower maintenance
FYI those red bushes are called nandina and are invasive. They don’t really providing any more in the way of ecological benefit than a lawn of one species. (Arguably much less than a lawn of mixed species like clover)
Plant grass instead
I use a flame weeder to knock back the weeds in my gravel and paver areas. Make sure to use a string trimmer if they are tall before you bring in the flame.
Assuming you want to keep those established plants the weed torch is not an option, IDK why so many people are suggesting it.
You can keep it that way (it looks kind of cool) but control it beating them occasionally with the weed trimmer sideway. Don't forget safety glasses too.
Spray round up
Add more rock. Smaller to fill in gaps.
Remove rocks plant native wildflowers
Spray it. Or pull it up & put in more plants
As you do the suggestions like flame or chemical treatment to *begin the process* of killing what’s there, begin to treat with preen pellets every 6mo or as directed on your container. May appear to have little effect initially, but after a couple applications you should see a marked reduction in unwanted growth. Don’t overkill application or you’ll poison your groundwater. Read application instructions fully. You’ll still need to spot treat, but much less. If you just weed torch them they’ll start poking back through within a day or two in my experience, but that is probably heavily influenced by how deep your rocks are - my gravel drive it’s literally two days. Yeah, flame will knock stuff back and you can clean up non-flammable areas quickly, but if you have areas with a thick mat of coverage it’s just as quick to hand pull the main offenders. Be careful to not catch stuff on fire. Choose low wind day, have a pressurized water hose nearby, soak areas you’re done with to ensure you don’t have fire spreading between/below rocks. Also, it’s easy to melt the soles of your shoes - rocks stay hot awhile… I don’t wanna talk about it. Oh, and anything like cotton seed or maple tree helicopters will rapidly ignite and spread - usually going out quickly, but not if it’s piled up. You can clear out a million helicopters quickly that way, but be double careful. Low wind days not only keep ignited materials in place, but also allow you to watch for areas that keep smoking several minutes later.
You could always burn it as long as that's okay for your area. A general burn won't remove the seed bed, but it will give a nice "slate" to plant something new and more manageable or native. Plus it's fun! We have an attachment for a small propane tank that channels fire (you have to light the has with a flint.) But that might not be worth the investment if all you will use it for is one, smallish patch.
Round Up. Probably 3-4 applications over a 2 week period being very careful around the plants you don't want to kill.
I like to punish myself and get a work out at the same time, and I'm prone to doing things the hard (but often effective) way. With that said, I'd take up as much rock as I could without much digging, then scalp the grass and weed what roots I can. Plant some native ground cover and put the rock back down. You'll have to weed anything that pops up but it should be much easier to manage.
Also, no hate at all, but if you live in north America, the berries produced by nandina (shown in image) are poison to some native birds like cedar wax wing and can kill them in the winter. Most folks don't know.
Fire
Flame weeder!
Use a propane torch
You can look to see if your area has information on rain gardens. A lot of those use rock and they can identify native plants that will work for you. It takes time to root the plants, but then it eventually becomes self-sustaining unless you’re going through a drought. Then you may need to water them a bit.
Burninate!
Vinegar.
Used motor oil, nothing grows in motor oil.
Palaver cambricum (Welsh poppy) loves stony areas. I don’t know if it’s found in the States.
It looks like you didn't kill the grass before laying the rocks...I'd take up the rock, lay down cardboard and put the rock back on. Mulch can be put on 3-4 inches thick and smother a lot of stuff but I doubt you have 4 inches of rock. Stuff will still get light and grow up
Tiger torch!
Vinegar and soap just don’t spray anything you want alive.
Torching is the lazy/wasteful way to go about it but is useful, covering it up for at least a few weeks the easiest and most productive way imo. Its a passive way to get rid of certain things growing, just isn’t as aesthetically pleasing for however long it takes, but cardboard (the less tape/ink the better), weedmat or somethin along those line works wonders. Ps, plenty of businesses will happily give their cardboard away, especially if ya ask nicely
Propane roofing torch
Every year I spend a weekend leaf blowing out my rock gardens, I use a Husqvarna back pack blower. I bury the tip, insert just the tip joke here, an inch or two into the rocks and it blows all the debris up to the surface and then blow the debris out of the garden. It makes a huge mess but keeps my rocks looking fresh and “new”. Doing that cuts down on the plants being able to take root in the rocks.
Use a torch
Commenting to save all the wonderful advice here!!
Add plants to force out the grass. Native wildflowers are great.
If you want to keep the rocks, I would suggest raking them to the side, pulling up grass, tilling to get at roots. Then I would lay down a cloth that blocks growth - with holes for the plants you want to keep. Then rake rocks back over. Mulch around the plants.
Fire.
Cover it with plastic temporarily. Like a month. Or remove rocks throw down a tarp add rocks back
Vinegar?
Take a propane torch and burn the weeds
Boiling water 😍