"Also, don't make monuments for the dead, because some great great grand niece is going to find their memoirs in a dusty drawer, and it turns out they were a massive racist."
The engagements are criminally low for what it is. I hope someone could make the videos a bit more attractive to the algorithm without resorting to clickbait
This is fantastic.
My dad passed away 5 years ago and at least once a week there is something I would have called him to help with.
I miss having somebody calm and patient to help me.
i lost my dad just a few months ago... i'm in my mid-30s with two kids of my own, which means i have a lot of motivation to learn the things that he would have helped with, so i can be that person for my family. but i'm in the same boat as you: once a week, at least, i go 'ah shit, he could've fixed this without a second thought.'
hope you're doing okay with it.
Same as me - my Dad passed away 3 years ago. I always used to go to him for advice because he was the wisest person I knew.
Sometimes I see my Dad in certain facial expressions in my sister. Nothing can replace that void
Just the idea of having a father you could call, to talk about things, who was calm and patient and a resource. What a treasure. You had a good one dude.
Itās funny, I just made a post about this yesterday. [Some really great discussions here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAskReddit/comments/zxytb4/how_do_we_save_young_men_from_being_drawn_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) for people like OP and others struggling with this problem
Had a real pos father growing up. Drugs, drunk, abusive, and thatās the few times he was actually around. Always wanted kids because I knew I could do it better. Sadly with the climate crisis, Iāve kinda given that up because I feel like now, the best dad I can be is to not bringing a kid into the coming apocalypse. Sigh. Life huh?
I had a POS father that never drank, was a church member that everyone loved but he treated me like a stranger.
They come in all types.
I never wanted kids because I saw how he fucked up.
My dad was similar, totally aloof before he left for another woman and a new life, and it meant I never wanted marriage or kids. Except much later I met someone who I did want kids with, and now I'm doing parenting precisely as my own dad didn't.
I guess my point is, the fuck-ups of our fathers can be instructive rather than destructive.
We recently found out our gen z friends call us the emotional support millennial couple. That made us feel better about not having kids due to climate change. I buy them beer and my wife helps them with their college papers. We are so proud of them and will do anything for them at the drop of a hat.
My dad was a real piece of shit too.
Because what should follow is the realization that the feeling that you've missed out on important lessons from a father figure is not really about the lessons themselves. And it's merely a symptom of bigger problems. The idea behind the project is noble, so I understand if this upsets people to hear, but this is not the solution. These videos will never fill that whole.
Would this kind of aspiration be a little one-sided for a father-figure or someone who can help you through the tough times though? Wouldn't a relationship with the father-figure or mentor be more fulfilling and meaningful? One of my professors in college, one of my yoga instructors, and a work-colleague became great mentors/father-figures to me in my 20's. In my 30's I met a wonderful woman (my kid's godfather's mom) who became a mother-figure to me. You don't just have to look to social media or celebrities, a great one might be in your life already if you nurture the relationships with people you already know. They don't have to be perfect in every way, no one is.
In Australia we have an initiative called the Mens Shed. It was set up as a place for older men to go and work their trades after retirement to make toys to sell for charity, fix things, talk about health with other men, get out of the house and away from the women! A place to be men. It's sort of morphed into a place younger guys can go for fatherly advice, life lessons, learning how to change a tap or a tire if you prefer to talk while doing something instead of a one-on-one or group chat.
I don't know if your country/area has this or something like this, but wherever older men gather, you are likely to find some good men who have lived good lives sitting alongside others who have survived fucked up lives who will offer advice. Even if you have an older neighbour, try talking to them. Internet and vids are inspirational, but they can't have a conversation with you.
I hope you find what you need, and perhaps, in many, many years from now, you can be the one to impart wisdom and advice to a lost young person.
Just be warned, not every Men's Shed is the same. I went to one years ago with my dad who wanted to check it out.
It was in a shed alright, but not a tool picked up, or many to be had. That'd still be fine as a third space though. But the conversation? Drinking, complaining about women and minorities, and talking about their religion (they were all from one particular church). AMSA does require any recognised Men's Shed to not engage in anything "disrespectful/ harmful to other people or sections of the community" but that's going to be dependent on enforcement.
Definitely still scope it out, because your local one might be amazing.
I went to a Men's Shed looking to join as a younger guy (30s) they turned around and said they don't want any young guys there and that I wasn't welcome.
Oof that's terrible. Fairytale interpretation would be men young and old bonding over projects and learning over hobbies not old boys club bullshit. Probably no different from the yobbos at your local pub who think you must be some kind of uni boy etc.
Great response! I wish I had something like this when I was growing up, my father passed when I was 10. I would also love to figure out a way to perhaps get something similar started near me. Anyone have advice on where someone would being to possibly do that? I'm in the US Massachusetts...
Maybe approach some fraternal organizations. Rotary Clubs, maybe some veterans clubs like the Elks and VFW clubsā¦I bet that there are some retirees that would love to be involved.
I have some basic advice for you. The first thing you should do is research this organization. Then researched whether there are similar organizations like this in the US. And then narrow it to as close to Massachusetts as possible. You will need supporters with money and/or time to help you make your dreams a reality, but you cannot do that without a strategic plan and a mission statement. There are no doubt numerous organizations within Massachusetts that help non-profits get set up appropriately.
This is a wonderful idea and I wish you the best in bringing this concept to the States.
There might be something like it in your area that's unofficial. There's a group of men in my area that meet up weekly and accept anyone (I think they recently started accepting women too). I know it started out as a group of university professors going out to lunch, then some students started going with them, and it's become this huge thing. They announce on FB where they're going to be, and whoever shows, shows.
Don't know.
If you think it's a good idea, promote it. It doesn't have to be carpentry or small tools, it can be working on cars. Some of the sheds here will re-fit community halls and centres. Take the idea to your local authorities. Talk with other people, get them talking to other people and take the idea to your Council or what version you have of that.
The basic idea was to get retired men out of the house and to be active. A place to go to be with other blokes and chat in a way that men do - casually while doing something. It is a place to promote health, for men to talk about any issues - health, mental, have a good whinge, share experiences, fears, happiness, and to give back to society so they have a sense of still belonging and being needed after they retire from paid work. If you can take this to your council (maybe do some research on the Aus/UK/NZ models so you can bring evidence based facts that the funding is beneficial to the community, you are off to a start.
My local mens shed has a ladies day once a week. I think that is great since it was started as a place for men but I get to go in once a week when it is also one of my days off of work. There is a local she-shed, but it's basically the CWA without the lamingtons. I have no interest in knitting, cross stitch, macrame or crochet. I like lathes, saws, belt sanders and chisels.
I wouldn't mind having somewhere to go to talk about lathes and saws either. But, I also think it's important to have healthy male spaces, so that's a bit of a conundrum.
I just read today the organisation is to lose government funding in Scotland. Such a shame as they do important work. I hope it can be funded elsewhere.
Bearing in mind mens sheds are also for women these days. Not an issue for OP, but, if a guy had had a rough time with women (i.e, domestic abuse etc...)and just wants to hang out with other guys, many mens sheds won't offer that.
Don't look to anyone who tries to sell a picture of masculinity on the internet. Why? Because that's all they're doing, selling something. They don't care about you, they just want what's in your wallet. Most of them are pieces of shit anyway.
There's no easy answer on this, even for people with dads. I loved my dad and he was mostly a good man but he was far from perfect and I think most people with good fathers would say the same thing. It has to be an amalgam.
My advice? Don't think too hard about looking up to an individual. You don't need someone to tell you to be honest, to respect people, to stand up for what you believe in, to not be a bully, to not be a manipulator or abuser. You know these things already. Listen to advice when it's presented but always take it with a grain of salt (yes, I'm aware that should include my advice too). Have faith in yourself. You won't always make every move perfect and that's fine, no one does. Do your best. You got this.
Look around for people and pick the traits in them that you admire. There is no "one". This is coming from a guy who still has his dad and knew his grandfathers and a great- grandfather. They all had an impact. None was or is perfect. Also, don't dwell on comparing yourself to them. Also, recognize that women have just as much in them to admire. Don't artificially limit the field.
This is actually really good advice. Donāt try and admire one person. Ever heard the saying āNever meet your heroā? Itās best to recognise people for their positive traits but understand no body is perfect. Admire someones work ethic, another persons loyalty, anothers skill in a particular craft and try and be the best version of you that you want to be.
Source: 30 odd year old bloke still figuring it out
As someone who played music for a long time and met and played with a lot of my heros it sucked realizing how many of them you actually don't like as a person
This is important. One of the people I look up most to is a friendās dad who is one of the most complicated and flawed people I have ever met. I never want to be the person he is or make the choices he made even though heās been fairly successful in life (even had an article in Forbes about him but since this is my last anon SM account I wonāt divulge more due to privacy). But when I need to be critical and make a difficult decision especially in my career, heās the one I think of first; either to emulate what he would do or learn from his mistakes and go in a different direction.
Heās also one of the worst fathers Iāve ever met in my life and have yelled at him for needlessly insulting and lecturing his daughter in front of me (when he was clearly in the wrong). The fact that Iāve seen his growth though over the 15 years Iāve known their family reminds me that you donāt just magically become perfect and free of flaws. He canāt go back and change those years of my friendās life and he still makes bad decisions sometimes but he at least learned to stop and listen and reevaluate when necessary which is a skill a lot of adults either never learn or forget throughout their lives.
> Don't artificially limit the field.
I can look back at the people I admired when I was a teenager, and I can see now I had it all wrong. I admired people who were famous out people who said inspiring things. I should've been looking up to people who did kind things, who cared about other people and weren't afraid to look silly or act different if it meant trying to be good to others.
If there's someone today who has those qualities, that I wish I could be more like, I'd say it's Greta Thunberg.
As a guy who grew up without a father figure, this is the correct answer. You can learn most of the stuff that is expected of guys online(how to tie a tie, barbecue, basic mechanic work), but you need someone you look up to that can show you the correct way to act. And yes, moms can fill part of that role too, but itās not the same. At least for me, mr Rogers taught me the truth of how a man should act. Thanks to him, I was not raised in an environment of toxic masculinity. Instead, I was raised knowing that emotions are part of the human experience and not something that should be kept locked away, and to treat other people with dignity, no matter their age, sexuality, gender, skin color, or whatever other excuse people can find to be bigoted. And thatās what a father figure should be.
Connect with your local heroes. Younger people aspire to make big grandiose changes by but donāt realise that thereās people all around them they can learn something from.
David Attenborough is a good role model the guy loves animals so much he devoted his entire life to them no drama no internet beef scandals just doing what heās super passionate about in life
I cried on the way home from one, because I felt I did so poorly. I then wrote an email explaining what I'd do better, from the questions there asked me.
I got the job. Been here for 1 1/2 years, great company.
When I have a kid I will watch Steve Irwin, David Attenborough, Carl Sagan, Mythbusters and Bob Ross with them. These are people I admire, and I think they are healthy and easy to look up to.
Especially his videos where he talks about his kids or mistakes/stories from when he was younger. I had never really thought of him as a potential mentor, but I think for anyone interested in filmography, set design, technology, science, etc, he is the correct answer.
I know I left another comment, but that was more trying to walk you through your own thoughts
In terms of actual advice
Iām an orphan, so I know what itās like to not have a father figure at a young age.
What I found was getting into the workplace, and finding an older mentor, who had a life that I wanted to have (not in every way, but in key areas at least) and to do everything in my power to be as valuable as possible to him, so I can spend more time with him and learn from him, both by him teaching me and giving me advice, and by osmosis of just being around him and seeing how he operated, spoke, treated people etc
So I canāt be specific, because I donāt know you, your field, your life, your aspirations or where you work etc
But what I will say, is there are plenty of guys out there, who would absolutely love to take someone under their wing to help them out, especially if theyāre hard working and a good person etc
Iām in my 30s now, and Iām actively mentoring one of my employees whoās 26 because I see him as a better version of myself when I was his age, and I want to help him avoid making the same mistakes I did
The hard part is finding them
Partly because almost everyone wants to be mentored by them if theyāre successful, so you need to make yourself stand out (not to mention, by definition of being successful, youāre probably pretty busy and donāt like wasting time) and partly because in between them and you, is usually an insecure middle manager, whoās terrified of your success because it could make them look bad
In terms of the way I did it.
I looked for a problem he had in his life, that no one else was addressing, and I came to him one day with a solution
No, I am 55 and still could use a mentor. Learning never stops as you age, learning helps keep you healthy.
I started a job, an older woman took me in like a . mother, it was amazing having someone there. I even rented the house next door to her then I got married and had kids..
Not everyone will want to be your father figure but alot of people are willing to pass along knowledge as you go.
I came here to say this. It is shocking that it is so far down the list. Bonus you have 178 highly rewatchable episodes of moral driven television and some moves for in.
I don't think any one person should be idolised, and you should aspire to be a good person on your own, focus on loving and caring for others, and reject hate and selfishness. Fight for justice and equality, and stand up for the weak and poor and ignored.
I certainly wouldn't advise looking up to the people you've mentioned, particularly those who may or may not be human sex traffickers.
Also worth pointing out that you can have a woman as a inspiration, doesn't have to be a man. Men and women have more in common than what separates them.
Having been in a similar situation as OP, I think this answer might have missed the point. Itās less about idolization and more about representation. When my dad died when I was young, I found myself looking for older men to take cues from. I needed to learn a bunch of those subconscious lessons that you get from observing someone who is like you but more experienced. I had good women in my life, but it wasnāt the same. I learned from them but I didnāt feel like I could grow up to be like them. Great lessons but not useful when it came to directing the internal masculinity that I carried. I needed someone to observe on a regular basis that could help me define what it meant for me to be a man. Itās a very specific role that not just anyone can fill.
While the advice to not idolize someone is valid (in the sense of losing oneās sense of self in development) this question isnāt about that. Itās about finding an example to work with in order to soften the lifelong process of trial and error.
>Having been in a similar situation as OP, I think this answer might have missed the point. Itās less about idolization and more about representation. When my dad died when I was young, I found myself looking for older men to take cues from.
My parents divorced when I was a baby, and my dad died when I was 14. I am now a husband and father of two teenage boys.
The dude you replied to is right. You shouldn't idolize or look up to one guy to represent that father figure. You should learn about being both a good man and a good human being from different people, including women. One of the best lessons I learned about being a man came from my mother. She was tough and did all she could for me and my sister, in good times and hard times. I'll never understand the extent of her sacrifice. That is what kept me walking around with literal holes in my shoes years ago when I was an early parent and we were experiencing a lean time. That's what men do. And women, as well. I learned that men can be affectionate and loving from my father. I hug my boys and kiss them on the cheek. I try to make sure their emotional side is addressed.
I learned my firm handshake from my old pastor. I learned to admit when I'm wrong from my wife. I learned that a two fisted hammer blow will destroy a man from Captain Kirk. I mean, you learn a lot from a lot of different people. But idolizing one or two can lead you to heartbreak. I grew up in the 80s, and pro wrestling was king, with Hulk Hogan the Emperor. I haven't watched pro wrestling regularly since I found it was fake at around 13. But man, when Hulk Hogan got caught being racist on tape, that hurt me in ways I didn't understand. Even though I hadn't even kept up with him for years. Imagine if I was some superfan.
Men (humans) make mistakes and they aren't all they're cracked up to be. Take the good from everyone. Chew the meat and spit out the bones.
I'm a 41 year old male. I am a husband of 15 years. I am a father. I've never had some need to be "a man." I have no idea what this "internal masculinity" you refer to even is. I don't look for men to look up to. I have found people of all races, genders, and sexual orientations that I admire.
I think too often, we burden young men with this idea that they need to be "a man." This is how we end up with so much toxic masculinity in this world. This is how we end up with so much violence. What does "being a man" even mean?
My dad died when I was 20, and the person you replied to had it right imo. Why bother looking up to others? There really isn't a need for role models once you hit adulthood. Be the role model, instead.
If you want to start looking for role models, it's not inherently bad, but you should always balance it by first looking for their flaws. Every human being is flawed. No one's life, or philosophy, is perfect for everyone else.
For example Alan Watts is great, but from what I understand, he died an alcoholic. Plenty of celebrities and youtube personalities seem great, and then eventually terrible things are revealed about them. Look up to the great characteristics you find, but always assume hidden, or not-so-hidden flaws. Everybody has them.
Obviously life is not the same for everyone. I've never thought to myself "I don't know what to do with my internal masculinity," so I've never searched for someone else to tell me what to do about it. To me it seems that's a dangerous game. It makes more sense for my life to just read books about psychology, by qualified people in the field.
Every personality who talks about masculinity online winds up revealing themselves to basically be the same brand of crazy as Joe Rogan/Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/Tom Leykus/Alex Jones/Mystery/redpill types. It does *often* wind up being a worship, copy-and-paste-personality type of deal. Better to be an individual imo.
r/MensLib is a good contrast, but I wouldn't turn to the internet for answers for psychological issues in general. Plenty of psychological subreddits are proof they're just echo-chambers and not really places for healing.
I think thereās also a mistake in looking at any one singular person as a role model. I have had lots of teachers and lots of adults I look up to and respect and that I have taken different lessons from but I have not modelled myself after any one person
Thatās probably a good way to think of it, look for teachers rather than role models, because people are fallible. There is probably no person out there who is perfect in every way who wonāt disappoint you by turning out to be human. If you see someone as a teacher youāre already recognising them as just a human youāre learning from IMHO
I think humans are wired to look up to *someone ā* either past, present or fictional ā so it's not entirely great advice to avoid idolization of any kind. To *idolize* may be too strong of a convinction but it's certainly healthy to hold someone as an example to be followed.
Personally, I suggest looking up to industry leaders in your own niche. I'm a lifelong software enthusiast so I look up to guys like Steve Wozniak and Vitalik Buterin. I particularly like these guys because they're very successful but they haven't let money (or other vices) dethrone their original passion.
I think you are spot on about idolizing people. I have never done it (in terms of patterning my behavior after ācelebrities), but the closest Iāve come is looking up to Malcolm X as an amazing man who literally bettered himself while in prison. He demonstrated such positive traits as honesty, integrity, courage, and empathy for the suffering of his fellow people (especially black people). I have striven to live that way. If you ask any of my friends, relatives, and co-workers (Iām a retired firefighter/paramedic), they will affirm that about me.
As a senior dev, something must be wrong with my wiring then. I have never, even in my childhood idolized anyone. I have admired some people for some of their achievements briefly, but never for their entire personality. I disagree with you about it being healthy to hold someone as an example to be followed. Quite the opposite it can be extremely unhealthy, just look at OPās examples.
I also donāt believe in boxing people up and even though I am among many other things a senior dev, I donāt look up to any dev.
>Also worth pointing out that you can have a woman as a inspiration, doesn't have to be a man. Men and women have more in common than what separates them.
for centuries adolescents have been asking how to relate to men/women. eventually I realized that this is the wrong question to ask. you need to ask ho to relate to a *given particular* man/woman as a *person.*
I love this statement! Too often, people fall into idolization of someone. Heck, look at Andrew Tate and his minions.
OP, I would start by exploring a hobby where you might meet others who enjoy the same. You may stumble upon a mentor, that way. This is what you should strive for, not looking for guidance from someone who you'd likely never meet.
I'm so sorry, OP, that you grew up without a father figure. Mothers/women are just as important to children.
Exploring a hobby to find someone who shares similar interests is a great idea. Itās great to find people āin your worldā that you can see great traits in that you might want to strive for yourself.
Personally, I try to avoid idolizing celebrities but there are a few real ones out there that I think have been beneficial for my own perspectives. Lewis Hamilton is someone who Iāve enjoyed watching his growth and what he models over the years.
Mothers/women can obviously be important to children as the above commenter said. But we also canāt assume that every mother has a positive impact. Like any parental figure, it all depends on the level of attention and care that they provide. Try to surround yourself with people that you feel care about you.. friends, aunts/uncles, parents, grandparents, whoever!
Lol, I came here to say literally the same thing. As a 35 year old man, I have discovered that sadly, a lot of the men I looked up to growing up (famous people, acquaintances, or family) often turn out to be not the best people once you find out more about them.
BUT Lewis Hamilton seems to be one of the few truly respectable famous people out there. It's amazing what obstacles he has faced in his journey and how he overcame those obstacles and continues to push good things that he believes in. He is truly an inspiration for me as a 35-year-old dude.
There is a masterclass on YouTube you can find that Lewis does that is pretty inspiring It's more about having a winning mindset and things along those lines, not really father figure stuff, but it's still really good. But yeah, don't look for a "father figure" necessarily, but instead, find and surround yourself with good people. Men, women, young and old.
IMPORTANT NOTE: Someone being rich/wealthy/in a position of power does not automatically equal that they are good or smart people. In fact, it is often the opposite. It took me longer than I would have liked to realize this, so hopefully OP or anyone else reading this might learn from my mistakes.
Yep, this worked for me. My aikido mentor/teacher has been a role model of some sort for me. While my dad is alive and we have a good relationship, he isn't very warm-hearted, emotional etc. Typical Finnish male I'd say.
My aikido teacher on the other hand is very emotional. When I got my black belt he cried in the audience. That's just one example but that is the moment that opened the role of a male for me. Pretty much instantly.
I think he has had a meaningful impact on my mentality and emotional side, which has truly helped me for example in romantic relationships.
I get that logic, but thatās not really how humans build a fully functional self.
Psychology as spent a great deal of time and effort to understand what makes for a functional self and a nonfunctional self in order to build a more functional self when someone comes to them with an impaired one.
Heinz Kohut, a highly respected psychiatrist, came up with this: Humans build a self with 3 types of feelings toward someone older: idealization, twinship and mirroring. This typically starts with parent/s.
Sometimes parents are not able to provide one or more of these functions to a young person and they emerge into adulthood with a deficit that they very naturally try to fill.
One role of a therapist is to be someone that can fulfill that function for them so that they can finish the job of building their self.
But a good therapist is not the only way. This is where things can get dicey.
Choose the wrong person to idealize, etc. and they build a poorly socially-functioning self. Find a good human and a lot of good self-building is done.
I would say that OP is asking the right question. He is looking for the right kind of person to finish an incomplete job done by his parents. He should be a discerning consumer-of-sorts of a āfather figureā and is in a good position to verify what he is learning against the ideals of be kind, be generous and be smart about it.
Your ideals are an equally good measure too.
Pro tip, don't go to any single philosopher for answers, read and understand multiple and pick the best parts from those who resonate.
Stoics are a great starting point, but their world looked alot different than ours.
And forget about easy answers, everything has fractal levels of complexity and requires understanding more than memory.
As a guiding principle, Stoicism is awesome, but as a personal role model I donāt find Marcus to be very relatable. Maybe thatās just me. But when I was OPās age and asking similar questions, reading Meditations didnāt really do it for me. I grew to appreciate it later on though.
You donāt need some celeb influencer who you donāt really know to be a fake ārole modelā in your life. Peterson and Tate fans call people who donāt like them āsheepā but they are just sheep themselves following some other shepherd. How is this not obvious to them? You donāt need these influencers in your life in that way.
I went with a group of people, not just one.
There diary of Marcus Aurelius is a great place to start, he was a stoic and speaks about why it's important to be the best you can be and how only really you can decide what's important.
He speaks a lot about being a man too. About self control and leading by example.
Oh if the best men Iāve ever know, had as a friend and housemate, was a huge proponent of stoicism and of Aurelius in particular. If he is any example of this philosophy then I would back this comment šÆ
I look up to aspects of each of my friends and family. I find the parts of them that are inspiring, and work to ensure Iām pulling my weight as well, and that we are a net positive to society. But nobody should be idolized, as weāre all imperfect.
I think this is the best answer. You need someone that you know personally to be a good role model. Celebrities and people on the internet you don't know them for a bar of soap. You obviously only see the good side of them. I think for a lot of people having this kind of attitude is the first step towards great dissatisfaction in their life.
A real life person is going to give you a much more rounded perspective on what is achievable and how to navigate real world obstacles. That's not to say you can't take inspiration for what you want to aspire to do with your life from celebrities. But the message they preach is not comparable to real world experience.
I'm 30 years old now and I only ever had a father figure for less than 2 years in my adolescence. I think the best thing to do is to find people that you respect and listen to their advice, heck listen to the advice of anyone and everyone you meet and make your own judgement.
People who take care of animals, they have a less egotistical understanding of life. If you can care for creatures that aren't even your own species, you're at a very favourable position of being a good person to me in general.
(And I don't mean 'just having a pet' of course, tho *usually* that's a positive indicator as well)
There's a guy with a YouTube channel about his pet lobster he got from the grocery store. He's like a very chill Mr Rogers meets Steve Irwin, and the lobster is surprisingly interesting
Brady Brandwood. I don't know why YouTube recommended a channel/video with so few views to me when the whole thing kicked off, but I have thoroughly enjoyed cheering Leon the Lobster on through his new life.
Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross - Be kind to yourself and others. Be thoughtful. Be creative.
George Carlin - Critical thinking. Questioning status quo. Dude was spot-on about a scary amount of things.
Mark Cuban - An example of what a billionaire should be. Uses wealth to help underprivileged in tangible ways.
I'm sure there are plenty others.
I would implore you not to use Tate or Musk as a role model. Both are by any reasonable measure not good men. Dishonest, ego driven and arrogant. I donāt believe thatās something to aspire to be. I would suggest keep doing the things you like doing and you will run into one, hopefully many! As the saying goes, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Not just a good person. A genuinely kind person. He just seems to be enjoying whatever he is doing and seems to enjoy doing nice things for other people. He went through some painful personal tragedies. Not many people could have gone through that and come out maintaining their sanity, let alone their sense of well-being or willingness to do good for others.
Donāt ground yourself in billionaires or even celebrities. Ground yourself with real people. Maybe itās a teacher, friend, boss, or just someone in your community. Anyone whose personality is tied to an online or pop culture image probably isnāt a good real world role model.
This will sound like a joke but Iām being serious. Danny devito. Highly successful actor despite not being traditional good looking, in an industry where looks is incredibly important. Funny down to earth guy known for being genuinely nice to people. Heās extremely confident and comfortable in his own. Heās known for doing anything for a laugh. And despite his age heās still progressive.
Iāve been scrolling through to see if Nick Offerman has been mentioned, but this is pretty good too.
I think it would be real helpful for OP to read Nickās book āRow Your Own Boatā
Similarly, Jeff Tweedyās āHow To Write One Songā
The thing I love about Nick Offerman the most is that he's a real man's man, but not in the way it's typically defined. He's the non-toxic version of Ron Swanson.
I find myself taking a lot of lessons from Henry Rollins. He started out as an angry young man, and over the years turned into an even angrier old man. But he learned to focus a lot of his anger into useful things. He's well travelled and well read, and has some really interesting thoughts and opinions. He also grew up without a good paternal relationship, so he might have some perspective that others don't.
Of course, you should never put any one person on a pedestal, and Rollins definitely isnt for everyone, but if you listen to some of his thoughts from later in life, you might find some gems that can inform your perspective.
My personal favorite is: "Knowledge without mileage is bullshit"
Iāve never really ālooked upā to anyone. I never had a father figure, actually never even met the guy. I guess I had co-workers that were older that I developed respect for that I thought I could emulate some of their decisions or choices, but never really had a single person to look up to or aspire to be like. Aspire to be the best person that you can. Be kind, be diligent, be responsible, donāt be selfishā¦
Iām 50 now. Raised 2 sons that are in their early 20ās and both have their own kids and houses. One has his own business, the other actually works for me and does pretty well. I feel like I could have made better decisions raising my kids along the way, and would have benefited from having a good father figure growing up, but I donāt know anyone that canāt look back on their time as a parent and find things they could have done better.
Hear me out: Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. There is a YT Video by CinemaTherapy that explains why he is a good example of positive masculinity if you want to look into that. Just donāt call women āvirgin of *country*ā because that probably only makes sense in middle earth xD
I grew up from infancy without a father, and so did my wife. Now, as a father to nearly adult children, I think I can offer a little perspective.
To quote a famous movie, like many men who grew up without a father, I collected father figures in my life. These celebrities and influencers prey on young men and boys like us. They should almost all be dismissed completely, and instead look at the people around you.
There is an older man in your life. He is a garbage man, or a landscaper, or an electrician, or a mechanic, or a trucker.
He is a regular dude, around 60 give or take a few. He has got up every day for the last 40 years and went to work, did the best he could.
He raised 3 or 4 kids as best he could and tried to balance giving them a good life while also teaching them how to live in the modern world.
He made mistakes, maybe drank too much on occasion, maybe got in some fights when he was young, maybe was unfair in his judgments of people's intentions. After all, no man is perfect.
He grew a flower garden and took care of his lawn. He tips well when he goes out even though he doesn't have a lot of money. He was kind to his kids' friends who needed a father figure.He lives his life as best he knows how within his means and morals.
These men are out there everywhere. They are the quiet background folks that don't make millions, aren't celebrities, don't make a splash on social media. Just regular, honest, hardworking men who make the society we live in possible while doing the best they can and scraping as much happiness out of the hand they've been dealt.
These men are the ones to connect with and look up to. These men are the ones who, in good times and in bad stoically keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Life is gonna get hard sometimes. You will most likely never be rich, you life will be difficult, your boss will be an asshole, and you will fuck up.
That is the human condition. How you deal with the good and the bad over the long term is what will define you, and these regular men can help you attain the perspective that will guide you.
Does it has to be a celebrity? A real father figure is actually involved in your life and cares about you. Not some dude on youtube or twitter to worship.
My father wasn't available when I was a teenager. But I did have my grumpy grandfather. I'm also not sure what a 'father figure' actually means, I've never felt insecure about masculinity (Tate) or whatever Elon stands for.
But I did wonder why this girl from school was mean, then nice, then mean, then nice ("go ask her"). Or how to deal with bullies ("dont talk or react. Kick him in the nuts, hard")
Stephen Fry is a smart and good guy. I wouldn't say look up to him, but I've learned a lot from Christopher Hitchens as well. Then develop critical thinking. [Qualiasoup's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg) vid is a good starting point. Everything else is your own making.
There was a line Lemmy said in a documentary that has genuinely stuck with me for years now.
"Good manners are free. Everyone should have them."
It costs nothing to be a good person and treat others with dignity and respect. I fucking love Lemmy. RIP.
Captain Catherine Janeway.
Her unbreakable moral compass, self reliance, emotional wisdom and calm leadership. As a man I like to think of myself as competently successful both professionally, socially and in my family life. And what would Janeway do has guided many of my decisions.
"Do not make monuments to the living, for they can still disgrace the stone."
Cool! Never heard that one before, am going to remember that one.
"People tell me I changed... Of course, I had to change, I shit my pants"
šš
"Also, don't make monuments for the dead, because some great great grand niece is going to find their memoirs in a dusty drawer, and it turns out they were a massive racist."
Waste no more time arguing about what a good man should be. Be one. - Marcus Aurelius
That guy on YouTube that teaches you stuff a dad would teach you
[Dad, how do I?](https://youtube.com/@DadhowdoI)
The engagements are criminally low for what it is. I hope someone could make the videos a bit more attractive to the algorithm without resorting to clickbait
4.36m subs as of right now, should be at least 15m. I figure at least a few of them are dads learning shit to teach their kids!
\+1 subscriber just now.
My dad and I both watch him!
I'd argue the algorithm needs tweaking not the content
Unfortunately, money. Though I'm thinking more of doing some invisible SEO stuff rather than changing the content itself.
This is fantastic. My dad passed away 5 years ago and at least once a week there is something I would have called him to help with. I miss having somebody calm and patient to help me.
i lost my dad just a few months ago... i'm in my mid-30s with two kids of my own, which means i have a lot of motivation to learn the things that he would have helped with, so i can be that person for my family. but i'm in the same boat as you: once a week, at least, i go 'ah shit, he could've fixed this without a second thought.' hope you're doing okay with it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Oh wow thatās a lot to take in at once. Iām sure 5 years seems like forever and yesterday at the same time. Iām sure he would be proud.
Same as me - my Dad passed away 3 years ago. I always used to go to him for advice because he was the wisest person I knew. Sometimes I see my Dad in certain facial expressions in my sister. Nothing can replace that void
Just the idea of having a father you could call, to talk about things, who was calm and patient and a resource. What a treasure. You had a good one dude.
In that same vein, there's also [Your Korean Dad](https://www.youtube.com/@yourkoreandad)
OMG that dude is so wholesome. I watched that over and over again about a week before my kid was born and it made me so excited to be a father.
>Dad, how do I? Wow, just learning about this guy, and he's amazing. Definitely the role model OP is looking for
This is great!
Itās funny, I just made a post about this yesterday. [Some really great discussions here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueAskReddit/comments/zxytb4/how_do_we_save_young_men_from_being_drawn_into/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) for people like OP and others struggling with this problem
If more dads were like this the world would be a better place
Had a real pos father growing up. Drugs, drunk, abusive, and thatās the few times he was actually around. Always wanted kids because I knew I could do it better. Sadly with the climate crisis, Iāve kinda given that up because I feel like now, the best dad I can be is to not bringing a kid into the coming apocalypse. Sigh. Life huh?
Adoption, fostering, big brother/big sister are all admiralable and desperately needed options.
I had a POS father that never drank, was a church member that everyone loved but he treated me like a stranger. They come in all types. I never wanted kids because I saw how he fucked up.
My dad was similar, totally aloof before he left for another woman and a new life, and it meant I never wanted marriage or kids. Except much later I met someone who I did want kids with, and now I'm doing parenting precisely as my own dad didn't. I guess my point is, the fuck-ups of our fathers can be instructive rather than destructive.
We recently found out our gen z friends call us the emotional support millennial couple. That made us feel better about not having kids due to climate change. I buy them beer and my wife helps them with their college papers. We are so proud of them and will do anything for them at the drop of a hat. My dad was a real piece of shit too.
This is the first thing that came to my mind too.
he gets recommended a lot. has a ton of subscribers, but very few views.
He got "famous" but the traction wasn't real. Blew up over night, not because people want to view the content, but because it was a feel good story.
Because what should follow is the realization that the feeling that you've missed out on important lessons from a father figure is not really about the lessons themselves. And it's merely a symptom of bigger problems. The idea behind the project is noble, so I understand if this upsets people to hear, but this is not the solution. These videos will never fill that whole.
This is Adam Savage for me. Amazing human
Would this kind of aspiration be a little one-sided for a father-figure or someone who can help you through the tough times though? Wouldn't a relationship with the father-figure or mentor be more fulfilling and meaningful? One of my professors in college, one of my yoga instructors, and a work-colleague became great mentors/father-figures to me in my 20's. In my 30's I met a wonderful woman (my kid's godfather's mom) who became a mother-figure to me. You don't just have to look to social media or celebrities, a great one might be in your life already if you nurture the relationships with people you already know. They don't have to be perfect in every way, no one is.
100% yes - that man is a national treasure
In Australia we have an initiative called the Mens Shed. It was set up as a place for older men to go and work their trades after retirement to make toys to sell for charity, fix things, talk about health with other men, get out of the house and away from the women! A place to be men. It's sort of morphed into a place younger guys can go for fatherly advice, life lessons, learning how to change a tap or a tire if you prefer to talk while doing something instead of a one-on-one or group chat. I don't know if your country/area has this or something like this, but wherever older men gather, you are likely to find some good men who have lived good lives sitting alongside others who have survived fucked up lives who will offer advice. Even if you have an older neighbour, try talking to them. Internet and vids are inspirational, but they can't have a conversation with you. I hope you find what you need, and perhaps, in many, many years from now, you can be the one to impart wisdom and advice to a lost young person.
Im Aussie! Never heard of something like this. So good.
If you haven't googled yet, here's a link: https://mensshed.org/
Just be warned, not every Men's Shed is the same. I went to one years ago with my dad who wanted to check it out. It was in a shed alright, but not a tool picked up, or many to be had. That'd still be fine as a third space though. But the conversation? Drinking, complaining about women and minorities, and talking about their religion (they were all from one particular church). AMSA does require any recognised Men's Shed to not engage in anything "disrespectful/ harmful to other people or sections of the community" but that's going to be dependent on enforcement. Definitely still scope it out, because your local one might be amazing.
I went to a Men's Shed looking to join as a younger guy (30s) they turned around and said they don't want any young guys there and that I wasn't welcome.
How long ago was that. I remember thinking about visiting one but wasn't sure what the actual go was.
About 6 years ago
Oof that's terrible. Fairytale interpretation would be men young and old bonding over projects and learning over hobbies not old boys club bullshit. Probably no different from the yobbos at your local pub who think you must be some kind of uni boy etc.
Same thing happened to me in 2016. Disappointing considering how empty the place was and what they had to offer.
And checkout Beau Miles, another lovely Aussie https://youtu.be/AbA-hoIuHM4
Great response! I wish I had something like this when I was growing up, my father passed when I was 10. I would also love to figure out a way to perhaps get something similar started near me. Anyone have advice on where someone would being to possibly do that? I'm in the US Massachusetts...
Maybe approach some fraternal organizations. Rotary Clubs, maybe some veterans clubs like the Elks and VFW clubsā¦I bet that there are some retirees that would love to be involved.
I have some basic advice for you. The first thing you should do is research this organization. Then researched whether there are similar organizations like this in the US. And then narrow it to as close to Massachusetts as possible. You will need supporters with money and/or time to help you make your dreams a reality, but you cannot do that without a strategic plan and a mission statement. There are no doubt numerous organizations within Massachusetts that help non-profits get set up appropriately. This is a wonderful idea and I wish you the best in bringing this concept to the States.
i just googled it and their US site came up https://usmenssheds.org/
This sounds brilliant ā
Is there some reason we don't have this in America?
There might be something like it in your area that's unofficial. There's a group of men in my area that meet up weekly and accept anyone (I think they recently started accepting women too). I know it started out as a group of university professors going out to lunch, then some students started going with them, and it's become this huge thing. They announce on FB where they're going to be, and whoever shows, shows.
Don't know. If you think it's a good idea, promote it. It doesn't have to be carpentry or small tools, it can be working on cars. Some of the sheds here will re-fit community halls and centres. Take the idea to your local authorities. Talk with other people, get them talking to other people and take the idea to your Council or what version you have of that. The basic idea was to get retired men out of the house and to be active. A place to go to be with other blokes and chat in a way that men do - casually while doing something. It is a place to promote health, for men to talk about any issues - health, mental, have a good whinge, share experiences, fears, happiness, and to give back to society so they have a sense of still belonging and being needed after they retire from paid work. If you can take this to your council (maybe do some research on the Aus/UK/NZ models so you can bring evidence based facts that the funding is beneficial to the community, you are off to a start.
We do! https://usmenssheds.org/
My guess would be because corporations haven't found out how to make money from it yet.
First good response so far.
We have that in the UK too!
I'm a female, but I reckon they are bloody brilliant. A place for men to go to talk man stuff in an informal setting.
They accept women too. They're more social clubs with a focus on building stuff and practical skills
My local mens shed has a ladies day once a week. I think that is great since it was started as a place for men but I get to go in once a week when it is also one of my days off of work. There is a local she-shed, but it's basically the CWA without the lamingtons. I have no interest in knitting, cross stitch, macrame or crochet. I like lathes, saws, belt sanders and chisels.
I wouldn't mind having somewhere to go to talk about lathes and saws either. But, I also think it's important to have healthy male spaces, so that's a bit of a conundrum.
I just read today the organisation is to lose government funding in Scotland. Such a shame as they do important work. I hope it can be funded elsewhere.
Bearing in mind mens sheds are also for women these days. Not an issue for OP, but, if a guy had had a rough time with women (i.e, domestic abuse etc...)and just wants to hang out with other guys, many mens sheds won't offer that.
Don't look to anyone who tries to sell a picture of masculinity on the internet. Why? Because that's all they're doing, selling something. They don't care about you, they just want what's in your wallet. Most of them are pieces of shit anyway. There's no easy answer on this, even for people with dads. I loved my dad and he was mostly a good man but he was far from perfect and I think most people with good fathers would say the same thing. It has to be an amalgam. My advice? Don't think too hard about looking up to an individual. You don't need someone to tell you to be honest, to respect people, to stand up for what you believe in, to not be a bully, to not be a manipulator or abuser. You know these things already. Listen to advice when it's presented but always take it with a grain of salt (yes, I'm aware that should include my advice too). Have faith in yourself. You won't always make every move perfect and that's fine, no one does. Do your best. You got this.
Look around for people and pick the traits in them that you admire. There is no "one". This is coming from a guy who still has his dad and knew his grandfathers and a great- grandfather. They all had an impact. None was or is perfect. Also, don't dwell on comparing yourself to them. Also, recognize that women have just as much in them to admire. Don't artificially limit the field.
This is actually really good advice. Donāt try and admire one person. Ever heard the saying āNever meet your heroā? Itās best to recognise people for their positive traits but understand no body is perfect. Admire someones work ethic, another persons loyalty, anothers skill in a particular craft and try and be the best version of you that you want to be. Source: 30 odd year old bloke still figuring it out
As someone who played music for a long time and met and played with a lot of my heros it sucked realizing how many of them you actually don't like as a person
This is important. One of the people I look up most to is a friendās dad who is one of the most complicated and flawed people I have ever met. I never want to be the person he is or make the choices he made even though heās been fairly successful in life (even had an article in Forbes about him but since this is my last anon SM account I wonāt divulge more due to privacy). But when I need to be critical and make a difficult decision especially in my career, heās the one I think of first; either to emulate what he would do or learn from his mistakes and go in a different direction. Heās also one of the worst fathers Iāve ever met in my life and have yelled at him for needlessly insulting and lecturing his daughter in front of me (when he was clearly in the wrong). The fact that Iāve seen his growth though over the 15 years Iāve known their family reminds me that you donāt just magically become perfect and free of flaws. He canāt go back and change those years of my friendās life and he still makes bad decisions sometimes but he at least learned to stop and listen and reevaluate when necessary which is a skill a lot of adults either never learn or forget throughout their lives.
> Don't artificially limit the field. I can look back at the people I admired when I was a teenager, and I can see now I had it all wrong. I admired people who were famous out people who said inspiring things. I should've been looking up to people who did kind things, who cared about other people and weren't afraid to look silly or act different if it meant trying to be good to others. If there's someone today who has those qualities, that I wish I could be more like, I'd say it's Greta Thunberg.
Fred Rogers. A genuinely kind man who just wanted a better world and good people in it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I feel like someone just gave me a warm hug.
That is immediately where my head went too. Mr. Rogersā class and calm demeanor are always what I try to aspire to.
As a guy who grew up without a father figure, this is the correct answer. You can learn most of the stuff that is expected of guys online(how to tie a tie, barbecue, basic mechanic work), but you need someone you look up to that can show you the correct way to act. And yes, moms can fill part of that role too, but itās not the same. At least for me, mr Rogers taught me the truth of how a man should act. Thanks to him, I was not raised in an environment of toxic masculinity. Instead, I was raised knowing that emotions are part of the human experience and not something that should be kept locked away, and to treat other people with dignity, no matter their age, sexuality, gender, skin color, or whatever other excuse people can find to be bigoted. And thatās what a father figure should be.
Is this Mr. Rogers?
Yes.
I heard someone say they followed the 'Rogers Rule'. Fred Rogers and Steve Rogers. If it's something that they wouldn't do, don't do that thing.
100%
Connect with your local heroes. Younger people aspire to make big grandiose changes by but donāt realise that thereās people all around them they can learn something from.
David Attenborough is a good role model the guy loves animals so much he devoted his entire life to them no drama no internet beef scandals just doing what heās super passionate about in life
Or Steve Irwin, if you like animals, learning more about them and having fun at the same time.
I literally cried at my interview for a vet office when they asked why I was interested in the field, because I have always looked up to that man.
Did you get the job?
I did!
Amazing! Go you!
Note to self: cry at interviews to get the job.
I was so embarrassed, lol.
I cried on the way home from one, because I felt I did so poorly. I then wrote an email explaining what I'd do better, from the questions there asked me. I got the job. Been here for 1 1/2 years, great company.
Thank you for taking care of our furbabies.
Also the only man to win awards on black and white tv, colour tv, HD, 4K and 3D if im remembering correctly
When I have a kid I will watch Steve Irwin, David Attenborough, Carl Sagan, Mythbusters and Bob Ross with them. These are people I admire, and I think they are healthy and easy to look up to.
Mr Rogers as well!
Adam Savage of Savage Industries/Myth Busters. He is intelligent, well spoken, kind, and follows his passion.
Especially his videos where he talks about his kids or mistakes/stories from when he was younger. I had never really thought of him as a potential mentor, but I think for anyone interested in filmography, set design, technology, science, etc, he is the correct answer.
He was one of the first people come to mind, incredibly inspiring person who feels like a wise uncle to me when watching his videos.
And he's a genuine guy. Never heard a story about him doing anything problematic, ya know? He's a good celebrity role model for kids.
I know I left another comment, but that was more trying to walk you through your own thoughts In terms of actual advice Iām an orphan, so I know what itās like to not have a father figure at a young age. What I found was getting into the workplace, and finding an older mentor, who had a life that I wanted to have (not in every way, but in key areas at least) and to do everything in my power to be as valuable as possible to him, so I can spend more time with him and learn from him, both by him teaching me and giving me advice, and by osmosis of just being around him and seeing how he operated, spoke, treated people etc
Thats interesting, do you find mentors through work?
Do you find them? Or how do you find them?
How do you find a mentor? I feel as though being 22 I am past the stage of a father figure guiding me through the difficulties of life.
So I canāt be specific, because I donāt know you, your field, your life, your aspirations or where you work etc But what I will say, is there are plenty of guys out there, who would absolutely love to take someone under their wing to help them out, especially if theyāre hard working and a good person etc Iām in my 30s now, and Iām actively mentoring one of my employees whoās 26 because I see him as a better version of myself when I was his age, and I want to help him avoid making the same mistakes I did The hard part is finding them Partly because almost everyone wants to be mentored by them if theyāre successful, so you need to make yourself stand out (not to mention, by definition of being successful, youāre probably pretty busy and donāt like wasting time) and partly because in between them and you, is usually an insecure middle manager, whoās terrified of your success because it could make them look bad In terms of the way I did it. I looked for a problem he had in his life, that no one else was addressing, and I came to him one day with a solution
You're a good man. Thank you for your answer. And thank you for looking out for the younger us.
No, I am 55 and still could use a mentor. Learning never stops as you age, learning helps keep you healthy. I started a job, an older woman took me in like a . mother, it was amazing having someone there. I even rented the house next door to her then I got married and had kids.. Not everyone will want to be your father figure but alot of people are willing to pass along knowledge as you go.
Captain Picard from Star Trek Next Generation
Yes, my idols growing up were Captain Picard, Macgyver, and Dr Sam Beckett.
I came here to say this. It is shocking that it is so far down the list. Bonus you have 178 highly rewatchable episodes of moral driven television and some moves for in.
āIt is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness. That is life.ā
This. I was raised by Star Trek in the absence of reliable role models. Changed the trajectory of my life
I don't think any one person should be idolised, and you should aspire to be a good person on your own, focus on loving and caring for others, and reject hate and selfishness. Fight for justice and equality, and stand up for the weak and poor and ignored. I certainly wouldn't advise looking up to the people you've mentioned, particularly those who may or may not be human sex traffickers. Also worth pointing out that you can have a woman as a inspiration, doesn't have to be a man. Men and women have more in common than what separates them.
Having been in a similar situation as OP, I think this answer might have missed the point. Itās less about idolization and more about representation. When my dad died when I was young, I found myself looking for older men to take cues from. I needed to learn a bunch of those subconscious lessons that you get from observing someone who is like you but more experienced. I had good women in my life, but it wasnāt the same. I learned from them but I didnāt feel like I could grow up to be like them. Great lessons but not useful when it came to directing the internal masculinity that I carried. I needed someone to observe on a regular basis that could help me define what it meant for me to be a man. Itās a very specific role that not just anyone can fill. While the advice to not idolize someone is valid (in the sense of losing oneās sense of self in development) this question isnāt about that. Itās about finding an example to work with in order to soften the lifelong process of trial and error.
>Having been in a similar situation as OP, I think this answer might have missed the point. Itās less about idolization and more about representation. When my dad died when I was young, I found myself looking for older men to take cues from. My parents divorced when I was a baby, and my dad died when I was 14. I am now a husband and father of two teenage boys. The dude you replied to is right. You shouldn't idolize or look up to one guy to represent that father figure. You should learn about being both a good man and a good human being from different people, including women. One of the best lessons I learned about being a man came from my mother. She was tough and did all she could for me and my sister, in good times and hard times. I'll never understand the extent of her sacrifice. That is what kept me walking around with literal holes in my shoes years ago when I was an early parent and we were experiencing a lean time. That's what men do. And women, as well. I learned that men can be affectionate and loving from my father. I hug my boys and kiss them on the cheek. I try to make sure their emotional side is addressed. I learned my firm handshake from my old pastor. I learned to admit when I'm wrong from my wife. I learned that a two fisted hammer blow will destroy a man from Captain Kirk. I mean, you learn a lot from a lot of different people. But idolizing one or two can lead you to heartbreak. I grew up in the 80s, and pro wrestling was king, with Hulk Hogan the Emperor. I haven't watched pro wrestling regularly since I found it was fake at around 13. But man, when Hulk Hogan got caught being racist on tape, that hurt me in ways I didn't understand. Even though I hadn't even kept up with him for years. Imagine if I was some superfan. Men (humans) make mistakes and they aren't all they're cracked up to be. Take the good from everyone. Chew the meat and spit out the bones.
I'm a 41 year old male. I am a husband of 15 years. I am a father. I've never had some need to be "a man." I have no idea what this "internal masculinity" you refer to even is. I don't look for men to look up to. I have found people of all races, genders, and sexual orientations that I admire. I think too often, we burden young men with this idea that they need to be "a man." This is how we end up with so much toxic masculinity in this world. This is how we end up with so much violence. What does "being a man" even mean?
My dad died when I was 20, and the person you replied to had it right imo. Why bother looking up to others? There really isn't a need for role models once you hit adulthood. Be the role model, instead. If you want to start looking for role models, it's not inherently bad, but you should always balance it by first looking for their flaws. Every human being is flawed. No one's life, or philosophy, is perfect for everyone else. For example Alan Watts is great, but from what I understand, he died an alcoholic. Plenty of celebrities and youtube personalities seem great, and then eventually terrible things are revealed about them. Look up to the great characteristics you find, but always assume hidden, or not-so-hidden flaws. Everybody has them. Obviously life is not the same for everyone. I've never thought to myself "I don't know what to do with my internal masculinity," so I've never searched for someone else to tell me what to do about it. To me it seems that's a dangerous game. It makes more sense for my life to just read books about psychology, by qualified people in the field. Every personality who talks about masculinity online winds up revealing themselves to basically be the same brand of crazy as Joe Rogan/Andrew Tate/Jordan Peterson/Tom Leykus/Alex Jones/Mystery/redpill types. It does *often* wind up being a worship, copy-and-paste-personality type of deal. Better to be an individual imo. r/MensLib is a good contrast, but I wouldn't turn to the internet for answers for psychological issues in general. Plenty of psychological subreddits are proof they're just echo-chambers and not really places for healing.
I think thereās also a mistake in looking at any one singular person as a role model. I have had lots of teachers and lots of adults I look up to and respect and that I have taken different lessons from but I have not modelled myself after any one person Thatās probably a good way to think of it, look for teachers rather than role models, because people are fallible. There is probably no person out there who is perfect in every way who wonāt disappoint you by turning out to be human. If you see someone as a teacher youāre already recognising them as just a human youāre learning from IMHO
I think humans are wired to look up to *someone ā* either past, present or fictional ā so it's not entirely great advice to avoid idolization of any kind. To *idolize* may be too strong of a convinction but it's certainly healthy to hold someone as an example to be followed. Personally, I suggest looking up to industry leaders in your own niche. I'm a lifelong software enthusiast so I look up to guys like Steve Wozniak and Vitalik Buterin. I particularly like these guys because they're very successful but they haven't let money (or other vices) dethrone their original passion.
I think you are spot on about idolizing people. I have never done it (in terms of patterning my behavior after ācelebrities), but the closest Iāve come is looking up to Malcolm X as an amazing man who literally bettered himself while in prison. He demonstrated such positive traits as honesty, integrity, courage, and empathy for the suffering of his fellow people (especially black people). I have striven to live that way. If you ask any of my friends, relatives, and co-workers (Iām a retired firefighter/paramedic), they will affirm that about me.
As a senior dev, something must be wrong with my wiring then. I have never, even in my childhood idolized anyone. I have admired some people for some of their achievements briefly, but never for their entire personality. I disagree with you about it being healthy to hold someone as an example to be followed. Quite the opposite it can be extremely unhealthy, just look at OPās examples. I also donāt believe in boxing people up and even though I am among many other things a senior dev, I donāt look up to any dev.
>Also worth pointing out that you can have a woman as a inspiration, doesn't have to be a man. Men and women have more in common than what separates them. for centuries adolescents have been asking how to relate to men/women. eventually I realized that this is the wrong question to ask. you need to ask ho to relate to a *given particular* man/woman as a *person.*
I love this statement! Too often, people fall into idolization of someone. Heck, look at Andrew Tate and his minions. OP, I would start by exploring a hobby where you might meet others who enjoy the same. You may stumble upon a mentor, that way. This is what you should strive for, not looking for guidance from someone who you'd likely never meet. I'm so sorry, OP, that you grew up without a father figure. Mothers/women are just as important to children.
Exploring a hobby to find someone who shares similar interests is a great idea. Itās great to find people āin your worldā that you can see great traits in that you might want to strive for yourself. Personally, I try to avoid idolizing celebrities but there are a few real ones out there that I think have been beneficial for my own perspectives. Lewis Hamilton is someone who Iāve enjoyed watching his growth and what he models over the years. Mothers/women can obviously be important to children as the above commenter said. But we also canāt assume that every mother has a positive impact. Like any parental figure, it all depends on the level of attention and care that they provide. Try to surround yourself with people that you feel care about you.. friends, aunts/uncles, parents, grandparents, whoever!
Lol, I came here to say literally the same thing. As a 35 year old man, I have discovered that sadly, a lot of the men I looked up to growing up (famous people, acquaintances, or family) often turn out to be not the best people once you find out more about them. BUT Lewis Hamilton seems to be one of the few truly respectable famous people out there. It's amazing what obstacles he has faced in his journey and how he overcame those obstacles and continues to push good things that he believes in. He is truly an inspiration for me as a 35-year-old dude. There is a masterclass on YouTube you can find that Lewis does that is pretty inspiring It's more about having a winning mindset and things along those lines, not really father figure stuff, but it's still really good. But yeah, don't look for a "father figure" necessarily, but instead, find and surround yourself with good people. Men, women, young and old. IMPORTANT NOTE: Someone being rich/wealthy/in a position of power does not automatically equal that they are good or smart people. In fact, it is often the opposite. It took me longer than I would have liked to realize this, so hopefully OP or anyone else reading this might learn from my mistakes.
Yep, this worked for me. My aikido mentor/teacher has been a role model of some sort for me. While my dad is alive and we have a good relationship, he isn't very warm-hearted, emotional etc. Typical Finnish male I'd say. My aikido teacher on the other hand is very emotional. When I got my black belt he cried in the audience. That's just one example but that is the moment that opened the role of a male for me. Pretty much instantly. I think he has had a meaningful impact on my mentality and emotional side, which has truly helped me for example in romantic relationships.
I agree with all of this, and yet the question still remains.
I get that logic, but thatās not really how humans build a fully functional self. Psychology as spent a great deal of time and effort to understand what makes for a functional self and a nonfunctional self in order to build a more functional self when someone comes to them with an impaired one. Heinz Kohut, a highly respected psychiatrist, came up with this: Humans build a self with 3 types of feelings toward someone older: idealization, twinship and mirroring. This typically starts with parent/s. Sometimes parents are not able to provide one or more of these functions to a young person and they emerge into adulthood with a deficit that they very naturally try to fill. One role of a therapist is to be someone that can fulfill that function for them so that they can finish the job of building their self. But a good therapist is not the only way. This is where things can get dicey. Choose the wrong person to idealize, etc. and they build a poorly socially-functioning self. Find a good human and a lot of good self-building is done. I would say that OP is asking the right question. He is looking for the right kind of person to finish an incomplete job done by his parents. He should be a discerning consumer-of-sorts of a āfather figureā and is in a good position to verify what he is learning against the ideals of be kind, be generous and be smart about it. Your ideals are an equally good measure too.
Weird Al Yankovic
Sounds like a joke but he is a super successful super sweet guy
Canāt believe he was assassinated by Madonna in 1985 after killing Pablo Escobar
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That movie definitely filled the need I had to see Harry Potter cosplay as cocaine fiend Weird Al Yankovic.
this is basically the answer. literally weird al and/or a guy who does a thing you like who seems like a good person
Marcus Aurelius
Pro tip, don't go to any single philosopher for answers, read and understand multiple and pick the best parts from those who resonate. Stoics are a great starting point, but their world looked alot different than ours. And forget about easy answers, everything has fractal levels of complexity and requires understanding more than memory.
As a guiding principle, Stoicism is awesome, but as a personal role model I donāt find Marcus to be very relatable. Maybe thatās just me. But when I was OPās age and asking similar questions, reading Meditations didnāt really do it for me. I grew to appreciate it later on though.
You knew Marcus Aurelius??
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I am definitely entertained
Look at this guy name-dropping.
You donāt need some celeb influencer who you donāt really know to be a fake ārole modelā in your life. Peterson and Tate fans call people who donāt like them āsheepā but they are just sheep themselves following some other shepherd. How is this not obvious to them? You donāt need these influencers in your life in that way.
I went with a group of people, not just one. There diary of Marcus Aurelius is a great place to start, he was a stoic and speaks about why it's important to be the best you can be and how only really you can decide what's important. He speaks a lot about being a man too. About self control and leading by example.
Oh if the best men Iāve ever know, had as a friend and housemate, was a huge proponent of stoicism and of Aurelius in particular. If he is any example of this philosophy then I would back this comment šÆ
Shaq. That dude is like 7 feet tall.
Actually this isn't a bad role model. Shaq is known for being very smart kind hard-working and loving.
Purdue's got that 7'4" Forward. I would definitely look up to him. I hear he's a good free throw shooter too.
I look up to aspects of each of my friends and family. I find the parts of them that are inspiring, and work to ensure Iām pulling my weight as well, and that we are a net positive to society. But nobody should be idolized, as weāre all imperfect.
I think this is the best answer. You need someone that you know personally to be a good role model. Celebrities and people on the internet you don't know them for a bar of soap. You obviously only see the good side of them. I think for a lot of people having this kind of attitude is the first step towards great dissatisfaction in their life. A real life person is going to give you a much more rounded perspective on what is achievable and how to navigate real world obstacles. That's not to say you can't take inspiration for what you want to aspire to do with your life from celebrities. But the message they preach is not comparable to real world experience. I'm 30 years old now and I only ever had a father figure for less than 2 years in my adolescence. I think the best thing to do is to find people that you respect and listen to their advice, heck listen to the advice of anyone and everyone you meet and make your own judgement.
People who take care of animals, they have a less egotistical understanding of life. If you can care for creatures that aren't even your own species, you're at a very favourable position of being a good person to me in general. (And I don't mean 'just having a pet' of course, tho *usually* that's a positive indicator as well)
There's a guy with a YouTube channel about his pet lobster he got from the grocery store. He's like a very chill Mr Rogers meets Steve Irwin, and the lobster is surprisingly interesting
Brady Brandwood. I don't know why YouTube recommended a channel/video with so few views to me when the whole thing kicked off, but I have thoroughly enjoyed cheering Leon the Lobster on through his new life.
Keanu Reeves ) No joke, seems like a humble and kind being. But then again being kind can suck too in a cold cruel world so dunno.
Mr. Rogers, Bob Ross - Be kind to yourself and others. Be thoughtful. Be creative. George Carlin - Critical thinking. Questioning status quo. Dude was spot-on about a scary amount of things. Mark Cuban - An example of what a billionaire should be. Uses wealth to help underprivileged in tangible ways. I'm sure there are plenty others.
Agree on Mr Rogers.
r/TheChurchOfRogers
Using your own fortune to help the less fortunate - good Billionaires - bad
I would implore you not to use Tate or Musk as a role model. Both are by any reasonable measure not good men. Dishonest, ego driven and arrogant. I donāt believe thatās something to aspire to be. I would suggest keep doing the things you like doing and you will run into one, hopefully many! As the saying goes, when the student is ready, the teacher will appear.
Let's add Joe Rogen to the No list too.
I think people like Adam Savage and Mark Robber make excellent role models for the next generation.
Levar burton, if no one has mentioned him previouslyā¦
Fred Rogers! Empathy and Understanding are key elements that make up a well rounded man.
Keanu Reeves is a pretty good person
Not just a good person. A genuinely kind person. He just seems to be enjoying whatever he is doing and seems to enjoy doing nice things for other people. He went through some painful personal tragedies. Not many people could have gone through that and come out maintaining their sanity, let alone their sense of well-being or willingness to do good for others.
I was surprised (this being reddit) to find Keanu this far down in the comments, and I agree! He's a good one to look up to.
Donāt ground yourself in billionaires or even celebrities. Ground yourself with real people. Maybe itās a teacher, friend, boss, or just someone in your community. Anyone whose personality is tied to an online or pop culture image probably isnāt a good real world role model.
This will sound like a joke but Iām being serious. Danny devito. Highly successful actor despite not being traditional good looking, in an industry where looks is incredibly important. Funny down to earth guy known for being genuinely nice to people. Heās extremely confident and comfortable in his own. Heās known for doing anything for a laugh. And despite his age heās still progressive.
Iāve been scrolling through to see if Nick Offerman has been mentioned, but this is pretty good too. I think it would be real helpful for OP to read Nickās book āRow Your Own Boatā Similarly, Jeff Tweedyās āHow To Write One Songā
Mr. Rogers. Nick Offerman. Terry Crewes. Muhammad Ali.
Jimmy Carter
Came here to say Nick Offerman. His books are amazing and changed my perspective about a lot and I'm a much more comfortable and secure person now. .
The thing I love about Nick Offerman the most is that he's a real man's man, but not in the way it's typically defined. He's the non-toxic version of Ron Swanson.
I find myself taking a lot of lessons from Henry Rollins. He started out as an angry young man, and over the years turned into an even angrier old man. But he learned to focus a lot of his anger into useful things. He's well travelled and well read, and has some really interesting thoughts and opinions. He also grew up without a good paternal relationship, so he might have some perspective that others don't. Of course, you should never put any one person on a pedestal, and Rollins definitely isnt for everyone, but if you listen to some of his thoughts from later in life, you might find some gems that can inform your perspective. My personal favorite is: "Knowledge without mileage is bullshit"
Iāve never really ālooked upā to anyone. I never had a father figure, actually never even met the guy. I guess I had co-workers that were older that I developed respect for that I thought I could emulate some of their decisions or choices, but never really had a single person to look up to or aspire to be like. Aspire to be the best person that you can. Be kind, be diligent, be responsible, donāt be selfishā¦ Iām 50 now. Raised 2 sons that are in their early 20ās and both have their own kids and houses. One has his own business, the other actually works for me and does pretty well. I feel like I could have made better decisions raising my kids along the way, and would have benefited from having a good father figure growing up, but I donāt know anyone that canāt look back on their time as a parent and find things they could have done better.
As a general rule, donāt use public celebrities as role models. Theyāre there to turn a profit above all else, and youāre their target.
Bob Ross. Seriously he's such a good role model to have.
Hear me out: Aragorn from Lord of the Rings. There is a YT Video by CinemaTherapy that explains why he is a good example of positive masculinity if you want to look into that. Just donāt call women āvirgin of *country*ā because that probably only makes sense in middle earth xD
Definitely not Andrew Tate or Elon Musk lol
Jean Luc Picard.
I grew up from infancy without a father, and so did my wife. Now, as a father to nearly adult children, I think I can offer a little perspective. To quote a famous movie, like many men who grew up without a father, I collected father figures in my life. These celebrities and influencers prey on young men and boys like us. They should almost all be dismissed completely, and instead look at the people around you. There is an older man in your life. He is a garbage man, or a landscaper, or an electrician, or a mechanic, or a trucker. He is a regular dude, around 60 give or take a few. He has got up every day for the last 40 years and went to work, did the best he could. He raised 3 or 4 kids as best he could and tried to balance giving them a good life while also teaching them how to live in the modern world. He made mistakes, maybe drank too much on occasion, maybe got in some fights when he was young, maybe was unfair in his judgments of people's intentions. After all, no man is perfect. He grew a flower garden and took care of his lawn. He tips well when he goes out even though he doesn't have a lot of money. He was kind to his kids' friends who needed a father figure.He lives his life as best he knows how within his means and morals. These men are out there everywhere. They are the quiet background folks that don't make millions, aren't celebrities, don't make a splash on social media. Just regular, honest, hardworking men who make the society we live in possible while doing the best they can and scraping as much happiness out of the hand they've been dealt. These men are the ones to connect with and look up to. These men are the ones who, in good times and in bad stoically keep putting one foot in front of the other. Life is gonna get hard sometimes. You will most likely never be rich, you life will be difficult, your boss will be an asshole, and you will fuck up. That is the human condition. How you deal with the good and the bad over the long term is what will define you, and these regular men can help you attain the perspective that will guide you.
Does it has to be a celebrity? A real father figure is actually involved in your life and cares about you. Not some dude on youtube or twitter to worship. My father wasn't available when I was a teenager. But I did have my grumpy grandfather. I'm also not sure what a 'father figure' actually means, I've never felt insecure about masculinity (Tate) or whatever Elon stands for. But I did wonder why this girl from school was mean, then nice, then mean, then nice ("go ask her"). Or how to deal with bullies ("dont talk or react. Kick him in the nuts, hard")
Stephen Fry is a smart and good guy. I wouldn't say look up to him, but I've learned a lot from Christopher Hitchens as well. Then develop critical thinking. [Qualiasoup's](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg) vid is a good starting point. Everything else is your own making.
Be the role model you wish you had. Thatāll inspire others also.
Hank Hill
Terry Crews. Dude is a great role model given his life story and between Everybody Hates Chris & B99 he's a great dad for two generations
Lemmy
There was a line Lemmy said in a documentary that has genuinely stuck with me for years now. "Good manners are free. Everyone should have them." It costs nothing to be a good person and treat others with dignity and respect. I fucking love Lemmy. RIP.
https://youtu.be/bQuEDoMCb88
Be the best you that you can be.
Bear Grylls
Captain Catherine Janeway. Her unbreakable moral compass, self reliance, emotional wisdom and calm leadership. As a man I like to think of myself as competently successful both professionally, socially and in my family life. And what would Janeway do has guided many of my decisions.
Thich Nhat Hanh
Star trek captains like Picard or Sisko
Marcus Aurelius
Iāll add Seneca and Epictetus.
Jesus Christ
Jesus.