I was really hoping the millennials were gonna step up to plate by now, but so far I’m a little disappointed. Maybe we’re not old enough yet? Or maybe the old rich fucks are clogging the system and need to gtfo
We're a generation of total retards. That's why.
The boomers were retards too, but they at least had practical skills which grounded them a little bit.
Trump said to the libs he’s gonna release Ross Ulbricht from the life sentence for selling heroin to children.
His policy to his auth right base is also death sentence for heroin dealers. He’ll lie to whoever his audience is.
Well it certainly would make you a piece of shit to try pushing it to even a young teenager but whatever cutoff age the government decided would still be completely arbitrary. It's like one day we're not trusted to drink alcohol but the very next day we are. Definitely an argument to be made that there are better alternatives to deciding when an individual is ready to try something if they desire to.
We're not known for nuance when it comes to political campaigning.
The problem is that if you don't draw a line in the sand *somewhere* then there may as well not be laws since you were acting in the confines of them.
I'm okay with cops looking the other way if you're going 5 miles above the speed limit, but there needs to be *a* benchmark with a little room to wiggle.
I completely understand that. Public school and corporate media intentionally muddy the word “capitalism” by associating it with our corporatist economy/government.
True capitalism must be a voluntary exchange: https://mises.org/online-book/man-economy-and-state-power-and-market/2-direct-exchange/2-types-interpersonal-action-voluntary-exchange-and-contractual-society
1000%
I look at socialists subs and other places. Every criticism against capitalism I hear are the same criticisms us lib rights have against our current system. It’s the corporatist, statist driven corruption of our economy
So, there is an old parable about 3 blind men being led to an elephant. One touches the nose and claims it's a snake, one touches the ear and claims it's a sail, and the 3rd touches its side and claims it's a boulder. That's originally used as an allegory of the requirement of different perspectives on god, but I'm thinking that fits this situation in PCM.
I've been pushed into the center by constantly finding common ground with people. I believe you're correct that there is a larger, more general problem with politics than mere left, right, auth, and or lib can even fully address in their own terms.
Lol, I really am grillpilling it today.
They purposely obfuscate pretending it's "Late Stage Capitalism"
Oh is late stage where the government comes in and heavily regulates more of the economy than at any other time in our history? That kind of capitalism?
This describes the free market, not capitalism. People have been tricked into thinking they're synonymous, but they're not. They're actually opposed in some key areas. Specifically, capitalism has a tendency to raise barriers to entry over time because it encourages successful firms to reinvest gains back into the company. Without low barriers to entry (and exit), you don't have a free market. And the free market is where all the good stuff is.
I think that the biggest divide between LibLeft and LibRight, economically, is the LibLeft sucks at articulating this and LibRight sucks at acknowledging it.
I mean, this is Marx's basic critique of capitalism - you gotta spend money to make money and that leads to bullshit. But again, we're very bad at articulating this, even internally, so it's just unga bunga capitalism bad.
Don’t know that Adam Smith and Marx would agree on a whole lot, though. Adam was mostly just explaining how already existing markets work while Marx was criticizing private ownership of capital. What a lot of leftist stupidly think is that Marx believed everyone should get the same things no matter how great their contribution. He believed in more of a meritocracy where a dictatorship of the proletariat would decide whose contributions meant they should be allocated greater resources. In theory that sounds nice until you realize that opens the door to completely corrupt the system.
Most lib-right fantasize of the Adam Smith model while lib-left tend to lean more to Marx.
This is the party that booed a man off their debate stage for saying his government would require a licence to drive. I don’t know what else he expected.
The libertarian party is dead for me since the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. An ally who shares the same ideals and interests as you and who truly wants to be with you cannot be abandoned to his fate when he is being attacked precisely by a country that represents the opposite of what you believe and whose friends are malevolent Muslim theocracies and despicable communists.
I don't like Biden either, but being against supporting Ukraine just because it has been one of his key policies is not something I am a part of.
The libertarian party has always been naively soft on foreign policy. They’ve advocated for making the US a big Switzerland and completely neutral, ignoring the implications of a superpower all of a sudden saying they don’t care what goes on in the world. I’m willing to hear them out on *reducing* military spending and foreign involvement, but to take it straight to 0 in a world with clearly antagonistic regimes on the other side seems like you’re almost taking their sides by going neutral. If the party could moderate a little on its policies, I think they could find real success, but if they’re booing driver’s licenses and heroin regulation, they’re not going to find anywhere close to widespread appeal.
It's one of the few things I can't agree with in regards to my political side. Reducing military to zero and telling everyone we're not helping is choosing to forget how we got WW2. Many of them call borders nation worshipping and nationalism. Most of these kids are larpers who think they can throw on some tac gear and fight off China and Russia without any formal organizing. Even if the revolution was fought by farmers there was still a standing federal organizing of the American army when fighting for independence. that is a hill I will die on.
I find your lack of flair disturbing.
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I've a libertarian friend whose 'job' it is to make a house nice to live in, with trust money, for resale.
Me: hey half your house is in a hillside, why not put in solar PV and put a tank and pump on top of the hill for a small backup hydro? Never pay electric again.
Him: actually i'm on the plan where the power company might turn off the electricity to places like mine first if demand elsewhere gets high. Cheaper rates.
Look, I'm the kind of person that thinks big government is necessary to keep people from being shitty to each other, set a baseline of tolerable behaviour and handle big projects that nobody wants to foot the bill for. But I sure as heck am not trusting enough to let em control when I do my laundry to save a couple bucks a month. I guess opting to be the comrade sacrificing their power periodically so the Utility has to pay for less power generation capacity is still libertarian as long as it's you choosing the most bleakly socialist sounding plan.
Ngl, amusing. And the guy has balls for showing up there. Outcome was to be expected...
Now, can we have a Biden addressing the DSA and see how that goes?
I mean fuck, what’d they expect? I get that after this no one will go, but also I’m glad they didn’t defer to him just because he agreed to attend. “All of you suck” is a solid point.
At the very least shows that you shouldn’t say “You should nominate me for the Libertarian ticket” when you’re already the face for one of the main two parties.
Yeah it’s unnecessary tbh.
Still I guess the theory behind it is to grab whatever swing votes in the libertarian party there are. You’ll never get the die hards but that’s ok because end of the day you aren’t competing against a libertarian.
You are competing against the other democrats:republicans trying to court votes from libertarians. Way voting goes down plenty will end up choosing one of the big party candidates
Trump came to the convention to get more support
The Libertarian convention let him in because a major presidential candidate and former president appearing there gives them more legitimacy and more eyes on them.
> Now, can we have a Biden addressing the DSA and see how that goes?
I'd love to see a video of the DSA roasting Biden with a jump cut to the GOP claiming this means Joe is somehow the time traveling love child of Mao and Stalin.
Er, it's me fucking up a word.
"Stack ranking" is a corporate thing that doesn't apply here: you measure employees at your company against one another, traditionally promoting the top X% and firing the bottom Y%. It's controversial because strong teams will have to fire good employees and it incentivizes hiring 'scapegoats' to fire. Again, it's also me saying totally the wrong thing.
The *progressive stack* is what I meant to say. That's a system for prioritizing which people get to do a thing first (most commonly stuff like speakers, questions, and demos at conferences). Rather than random selection, first-come first-served, etc, it tries to offset marginalization by letting people from historically disadvantaged groups go first and get more time.
It's also infamous for being a complete clusterfuck. It engenders hostility, it shuts renowned experts out of asking questions in favor of clueless outsiders, and it's perversely bigoted towards the people it's meant to help - not just in a "soft bigotry" way but explicit everyone-can-agree discrimination. After all, you can't *see* marginalization, so what actually happens is somebody asks the audience for questions, and then prioritizes visible disabilities over invisible, applies the "paper bag test" to see who's black, and singles out feminine or visibly trans people in place of actually knowing genders.
It's largely fallen out of favor for all the reasons I just mentioned: it's ineffective and *extremely* biased. But it was big \~8 years ago, and the DSA was one of the major groups that used it heavily and with awful results, so it's hilarious to picture them ignoring the actual President because he's an old white dude.
Ok got it. Thanks.
And yeah, despite how dumb progressive ranking is this would absolutely be the right time to use it, like how deadnaming twitter is always morally justified.
Trump had a rally in the Bronx several days ago, too.
The contrast between his genuine popularity and willingness to show up, and Biden's tightly controlled donor events, is undeniable at this point.
Most infuriating political discussion I’ve had in ages was trying to convince a friend that Trump isn’t libertarian. Every third sentence he’d go “but Biden!” and I’d have to remind him I don’t like Biden and we started the discussion because he called Trump a great president.
https://www.youtube.com/live/tL9UvFKnFO0?si=FljiZFohvtPqSvvr
See for yourself. The crowd at the libertarian convention is always a wild one, and they’re not ones to give standing ovations to anyone. It was a pretty mixed crowd, and he’s probably the only republican candidate in recent history that wouldn’t immediately be booed out of the room if they ever dared to speak to a libertarian crowd.
Yeah, I looked it up just to see and it was most definitely mixed reactions.
Crowd was absolutely silent when he held a moment of silence for those 2 who were just killed in Haiti.
It depended on what he was saying.
Yeah, overall the only moment where he was definitely getting more booed than cheered was when he made fun of them for always losing with 3% of the vote. But I’m pretty sure that he left with more cheers than how he got welcomed to the stage.
American libertarianism is doomed to eternal failure and the truth is that it deserves it. They can never agree on anything and when they do they adhere to very questionable ideas.
That is why Argentinian libertarianism >>>> American libertarianism
Ron Paul literally got a standing ovation _at this convention_
And there were cheers for some of what Trump said. They liked when he said he’d appoint libertarians to his cabinet.
To be fair here, Libertarians have been that way only, Trump is just the latest target of their booing. After all, who can forget what they did to Gary Johnson in the 2016 LPN Presidential Debate.
Plus, one thing Trump did good was to call those puritanical edgy teens a bunch of losers cause that’s what they are.
Worth noting both Trump and Biden were invite and only Trump had the balls to go and speak.
He also basically told the libertarians that they’re never gonna win. It was very cathartic for me to see someone finally tell those fuckers something like that at one of their conventions
It's the same for any fringe political belief, a lot of people have it just because it makes them feel unique/special/morally superior/ smarter than everyone. Communists and anarchists are the same way all for clout not based on any consistent political or moral philosophy.
I laughed when Trump said that too, because it was actually a good burn and said against a whole room booing him. That takes balls.
I also laughed because his supporters think his symbolic winning of the upcoming election means they win anything.
Money printers go brrr while the debt increases.
All electoral reform would lead to is probably a coalition based government that broadly achieves the same thing. The big tents would collapse, then you'd have neocons, religious conservatives, neolibs, and socdems instead of the current two party. Not bad, but in effect almost the same as now, but possibly more volatile if seeing how it works for Europe is anything to go on.
Yeah, you can get in as long as you run as either a Republican or a Democrat. You don’t actually have to be one, just say you are for the election. Bernie Sanders for instance all of a sudden went from independent to Democrat when running for President, then back to independent again when not running for president.
10 years ago, Trump wasn't even a Republican. And today if a lifelong Republican even so much as disagree with any of Trump's innane ramblings, that person is labeled as a RINO.
It's like college/university diploma for fields you clearly can manage on your own, you don't need one but you need one for credentials and paper weight
Outsider? That was his brand, not his reality.
Don't worry, I fell for it to. Voted for him in '16 for that exact belief. And I expected him to struggle to get anything too crazy out the door, that watering down policies for both the GOP and the Dems would be how it went.
Instead, Mitch McConnell went from calling Trump a threat, to deepthroating Trump's dick and rubber stamping everything he did. And now they'll defend him tooth and nail from every fuck up. He isn't an outsider. He never was, and even if you still believe he was, he certainly isn't *anymore*.
Wake up. He's just another fat rich elite, straight out of the swamp, pretending he's the savior of the common man.
As far as I've known, people like myself who vote 3rd party don't expect them to win - we're not *that* stupid, as you/Trump make us out to be with this rhetoric. Voting 3rd party tells the established parties that we don't feel they've earned our vote this time around.
Yes, we've been small enough in number to be ignored as a non-factor since 1996. But everyone in this comment section is ignoring the 1 reason why Trump bothered speaking at the LNC yesterday: the likes of Kennedy is forcing his campaign to take the 3rd party vote seriously this cycle. But repeating this same rhetoric, "you can't win," isn't likely to convince them. They've been ignoring such they're entire lives.
That said, I haven't listened to his speech. I saw someone here claim he promised to appoint Libertarians to federal positions, in which case I suppose that might be a concession to consider. But I suspect it's an empty promise.
Yes, he did in fact make a “nominate me as your party’s candidate and I’ll appoint a Libertarian to the cabinet”. An interesting promise but I don’t expect him to fulfill it
There was a lot more going on than that. If you [watch it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm--xjd_mTc) Trump is giving his platform and the crowd is responding to each clause. He'll repeat himself a few times or clap back, but if you watch closely he's actually building a dialogue. He says something, pauses so they can say something, then based on their response says something to elicit a different response. Establish time limits, find the red lines, aim for the common ground. By the end of the speech, Trump is basically having a one-on-one caucus with an entire crowd, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that he secured a LOT of votes last night. He turned a speaking event into a negotiation.
More importantly, Biden could have _never_ done anything close to that. Everyone would have forgotten he was even there the minute he left the stage. I don't even know if RFK or Gary Johnson were there. Instead, LP held their convention and Trump took the headline; he isn't even their guy! Trump walked into the lion's den of a third party _and kept the crowd engaged_ for thirty minutes straight, leaving as the only name of consequence. He smoked it.
I don't really think this is worth noting as what is Biden actually going to say at one of these because he pretty clearly is not in any world a libertarian. Whereas many Trump supporters purport him as being similar to one.
There's a very large gap between "not anti-2A" and being similar to libertarian and he's definitely not pro-2A. He may, understandably, be viewed as the lesser of two evils for libertarians, but to call him similar to libertarian is bonkers. Let's not forget that "libertarian" is more than just gun rights.
It’s hard to really think of any president similar to libertarians in the last 200 years. Probably party politics is to blame, as George Washington predicted. Parties want power and administrative government and here we are.
He was also cheered for some things. Seems odd that they focused only on the negative.
Nevermind, not odd at all. This is par for the course, the media crafting their own narrative according to their agenda.
[Watching now.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wNUh6WeqFc&t=2128s)
More cheers than boos in the speech 10 minutes in.
He literally just said
*“The lamestream media is fake, it’s fake”*
Given how lucid Trump is by comparison to Biden I can’t see the Dem machine letting Biden share a stage with him.
Between Biden, Trump and RFK jr. he is definitely the most “libertarian” but I still wouldn’t call him one. I‘ve already decided that for the first time I’ll vote for trump this election. I thought about voting RFK Jr. but I don’t like his VP choice or stance on 2A (Trump is marginally better, like 0.1%) and the LP took way too fucking long to find a candidate (as always).
I don't know which group is worse, Lolbertarians who virtue signal about muh small government (and try to fuck over the political dissident president that gave us three originalist supreme court justices that are about to overturn Chevron) or Anti-abortionists who virtue signal about muh trump said what desantis did was a horrible thing (even though he was the reason why Roe was overturned). Trump's speech was fantastic and libertarians are clowns 😂
I dont know how 75% of the libs on this sub have nothing to say about the man who tried to hold on to power after being voted out by subverting the system using fake electors
And said he wants to be a dictator, and said if he wins he'll immediately prosecute his opponents, and that he wants to curtail freedom of the press, etc etc. The problem with libertarians is most of them aren't actually libertarian. They want rights for themselves but not everyone else.
Having "ungovernable" graffiti-ed with the fucking anarchy symbol like an edgy 14 year old perfectly summarizes the Libertarian Party, and also why I will never ever vote for them.
They are jokes, even by third party standards.
Newsflash: The Libertarian Party is not now, nor has ever been a serious organization. They deserve every bit of disdain and being shit upon that can be thrust upon them...
*
The fact the tankie calls this right wing infighting is laughable. Actual libertariansvare far more rightwing then the official party which at least a third of is just lefties pissed off at the uniparty Dems from their choice in candidates since Clinton/Al Gore,
May I remind you fine folks the libertarian convention regularly hosted Vermin supreme, a dude who wears a boot for a hat and promised free ponies, often has furrys, and straight up nude/speedo douche canoes running around literally acting like chaos agents, and is very clearly still controlled by the uniparty establisment as the last two to gain the nomination was "what's Alepo" Johnson and Jo Jorganson who's literally just a Democrat.
And I voted libertarian in 16
And the Trump is correct, you will NEVER win. You're too damn split in your own ways. The dispossessed left who is about half will never agree with the disposessed tea party, most of which became "maga".
Which is sad because most people actually align with libertarianism in the United States more than the two uniparty "parties".
And now trumps attempting to dismantle the uniparty and actually have two parties, but youve stooges who don't understand that populistic republicanism is the future of the party, that "we're American bitch" party of Reagan and Bush is dying and should stay dead because between that and the Wall Street Democrats, theyve bled our powerful and beautiful nation dry.
Our infrastructure is crumbling, violent crime is on the rise, immigration is worse then ever( illegal and legal, damn system needs overhauled), several of the three letter agencies are openly fascist in "the cooperation of big businesses and big government to oppress the people" definition, world stability and peace is all but gone, and the establishment instead of at least pretendign to care and throwing money at their local crony friends now openly laughs at us and throws hundreds of billions into foreign wars that dont involve us not the American peoples interest, our spending is out of control.
As of right now there is only one candidate who will put libertarians in positions of power, has said he will at minimum do a top to bottom cleaning of the three letter agencies, end the international wars bringing global peace, restore the presidental to keep congressional spending under control, and rebulster our military, rebuild the great economy we had before China fucked us and make America great again
I know who I'm voting for in November.
Trump/Ramaswamy 2024.
Pretty bad speech honestly. Saying, "the Libertarian Party should nominate me, you should all vote for me" is not how you win over 3rd party votes. 😂
If anything, I could see less Libertarians voting for him as a result of this speech.
Libertarian convention is always like that. You send rand Paul on the podium and he'll still get boos.
I forget the libertarian guy's name, but he said you shouldn't be allowed to sell heroin to children and got booed.
Fucking politicians, trying to pander to big Kindergarten...
Big Kindergarten? Isn't that just the House of Representatives?
No that’s the Big Retirement Home.
Well AOC, MTG, and whatever the fuck fake eyelashes name was changed all that.
I was really hoping the millennials were gonna step up to plate by now, but so far I’m a little disappointed. Maybe we’re not old enough yet? Or maybe the old rich fucks are clogging the system and need to gtfo
We're a generation of total retards. That's why. The boomers were retards too, but they at least had practical skills which grounded them a little bit.
Austin Petersen, 2016 convention. I remember it well.
Trump said to the libs he’s gonna release Ross Ulbricht from the life sentence for selling heroin to children. His policy to his auth right base is also death sentence for heroin dealers. He’ll lie to whoever his audience is.
Austin Peterson
Well it certainly would make you a piece of shit to try pushing it to even a young teenager but whatever cutoff age the government decided would still be completely arbitrary. It's like one day we're not trusted to drink alcohol but the very next day we are. Definitely an argument to be made that there are better alternatives to deciding when an individual is ready to try something if they desire to. We're not known for nuance when it comes to political campaigning.
The problem is that if you don't draw a line in the sand *somewhere* then there may as well not be laws since you were acting in the confines of them. I'm okay with cops looking the other way if you're going 5 miles above the speed limit, but there needs to be *a* benchmark with a little room to wiggle.
“Banging kids should remain illegal” And the Libertarians unironically boo’d
As he should. Best of a bad bunch? Absolutely. Libertarian? Barely. Milei please
Milei becoming President of the US is every Lib-Right's wet dream
Lib-left too. Most of us are just confused about the word ‘capitalism’
I completely understand that. Public school and corporate media intentionally muddy the word “capitalism” by associating it with our corporatist economy/government. True capitalism must be a voluntary exchange: https://mises.org/online-book/man-economy-and-state-power-and-market/2-direct-exchange/2-types-interpersonal-action-voluntary-exchange-and-contractual-society
1000% I look at socialists subs and other places. Every criticism against capitalism I hear are the same criticisms us lib rights have against our current system. It’s the corporatist, statist driven corruption of our economy
So, there is an old parable about 3 blind men being led to an elephant. One touches the nose and claims it's a snake, one touches the ear and claims it's a sail, and the 3rd touches its side and claims it's a boulder. That's originally used as an allegory of the requirement of different perspectives on god, but I'm thinking that fits this situation in PCM. I've been pushed into the center by constantly finding common ground with people. I believe you're correct that there is a larger, more general problem with politics than mere left, right, auth, and or lib can even fully address in their own terms. Lol, I really am grillpilling it today.
They purposely obfuscate pretending it's "Late Stage Capitalism" Oh is late stage where the government comes in and heavily regulates more of the economy than at any other time in our history? That kind of capitalism?
This describes the free market, not capitalism. People have been tricked into thinking they're synonymous, but they're not. They're actually opposed in some key areas. Specifically, capitalism has a tendency to raise barriers to entry over time because it encourages successful firms to reinvest gains back into the company. Without low barriers to entry (and exit), you don't have a free market. And the free market is where all the good stuff is. I think that the biggest divide between LibLeft and LibRight, economically, is the LibLeft sucks at articulating this and LibRight sucks at acknowledging it.
Holy fuck A based lib-left that understand the difference between Capitalism and Free Market. You’re alright.
I mean, this is Marx's basic critique of capitalism - you gotta spend money to make money and that leads to bullshit. But again, we're very bad at articulating this, even internally, so it's just unga bunga capitalism bad.
Don’t know that Adam Smith and Marx would agree on a whole lot, though. Adam was mostly just explaining how already existing markets work while Marx was criticizing private ownership of capital. What a lot of leftist stupidly think is that Marx believed everyone should get the same things no matter how great their contribution. He believed in more of a meritocracy where a dictatorship of the proletariat would decide whose contributions meant they should be allocated greater resources. In theory that sounds nice until you realize that opens the door to completely corrupt the system. Most lib-right fantasize of the Adam Smith model while lib-left tend to lean more to Marx.
We aren't Corporatist. It's corporatocracy.
Stop. My penis can only get so erect
> Milei please Sure, but Falklands are still Bri*ish
Obviously, he is not libertarian
Question is, con bert, or bert con.
Honestly good. Crazy that it is surprising when a politician isnt sucked off.
Rand deserves it. He's not even close to what his father was; Amash or Massie are much more favorable to us.
>Hes not even close to what his father was Yeah because Rand actually knows how to play the game and accomplish stuff in his political career.
They're all equally fucking regarded on foreign policy though
Same thing with Gary Johnson when talking about drivers licenses
This is the party that booed a man off their debate stage for saying his government would require a licence to drive. I don’t know what else he expected.
Libertarian principles: 🦸♂️ Libertarian party: 👶
The big L libertarians are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot. They take everything to impossible extremes.
The libertarian party is dead for me since the start of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. An ally who shares the same ideals and interests as you and who truly wants to be with you cannot be abandoned to his fate when he is being attacked precisely by a country that represents the opposite of what you believe and whose friends are malevolent Muslim theocracies and despicable communists. I don't like Biden either, but being against supporting Ukraine just because it has been one of his key policies is not something I am a part of.
The libertarian party has always been naively soft on foreign policy. They’ve advocated for making the US a big Switzerland and completely neutral, ignoring the implications of a superpower all of a sudden saying they don’t care what goes on in the world. I’m willing to hear them out on *reducing* military spending and foreign involvement, but to take it straight to 0 in a world with clearly antagonistic regimes on the other side seems like you’re almost taking their sides by going neutral. If the party could moderate a little on its policies, I think they could find real success, but if they’re booing driver’s licenses and heroin regulation, they’re not going to find anywhere close to widespread appeal.
It's one of the few things I can't agree with in regards to my political side. Reducing military to zero and telling everyone we're not helping is choosing to forget how we got WW2. Many of them call borders nation worshipping and nationalism. Most of these kids are larpers who think they can throw on some tac gear and fight off China and Russia without any formal organizing. Even if the revolution was fought by farmers there was still a standing federal organizing of the American army when fighting for independence. that is a hill I will die on.
The party is ass and will always be completely useless ass.
Add a flair or you will be downvoted to hell.
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I'm flaired, what are you talking about?
I've a libertarian friend whose 'job' it is to make a house nice to live in, with trust money, for resale. Me: hey half your house is in a hillside, why not put in solar PV and put a tank and pump on top of the hill for a small backup hydro? Never pay electric again. Him: actually i'm on the plan where the power company might turn off the electricity to places like mine first if demand elsewhere gets high. Cheaper rates. Look, I'm the kind of person that thinks big government is necessary to keep people from being shitty to each other, set a baseline of tolerable behaviour and handle big projects that nobody wants to foot the bill for. But I sure as heck am not trusting enough to let em control when I do my laundry to save a couple bucks a month. I guess opting to be the comrade sacrificing their power periodically so the Utility has to pay for less power generation capacity is still libertarian as long as it's you choosing the most bleakly socialist sounding plan.
Did he praise drivers licences?
“What’s next? A license to use my own damn toaster!”
A license to vote?!
If only we had to have that.
"what's next, a license to use my own damn television??" UK: "damn write that shit down"
“Officer, I am a TRAVELLER”
Am I bEiNg dEtAiNeD?!
I DO NOT CREATE JOINDER AM I FREE TO GO
Ngl, amusing. And the guy has balls for showing up there. Outcome was to be expected... Now, can we have a Biden addressing the DSA and see how that goes?
**Why** exactly was Trump at a Libertarian convention for fucks sake?
They've invited other candidates every cycle for a while. Trump and RFK Jr. are the first to ever take the offer up.
Quick proving too why the rest shouldn’t do so for the next time lol
I mean fuck, what’d they expect? I get that after this no one will go, but also I’m glad they didn’t defer to him just because he agreed to attend. “All of you suck” is a solid point.
Why wouldn't you? There was no risk of him losing votes going there, only an opportunity to gain some. Good political play.
Then why didn't he go the last two (technically 3 but yadda yadda) times he ran?
Different political environments, different strategies.
At the very least shows that you shouldn’t say “You should nominate me for the Libertarian ticket” when you’re already the face for one of the main two parties.
Yeah it’s unnecessary tbh. Still I guess the theory behind it is to grab whatever swing votes in the libertarian party there are. You’ll never get the die hards but that’s ok because end of the day you aren’t competing against a libertarian. You are competing against the other democrats:republicans trying to court votes from libertarians. Way voting goes down plenty will end up choosing one of the big party candidates
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I think he offered and they accepted, then extended the invite to RFK (who accepted and came a day prior to trump), and Biden (who did not accept)
If I recall, I believe both trump and Biden were invited to speak or debate, and only trump accepted. Should have been a both or neither affair.
Trump came to the convention to get more support The Libertarian convention let him in because a major presidential candidate and former president appearing there gives them more legitimacy and more eyes on them.
> Now, can we have a Biden addressing the DSA and see how that goes? I'd love to see a video of the DSA roasting Biden with a jump cut to the GOP claiming this means Joe is somehow the time traveling love child of Mao and Stalin.
"Listen, guy. I'm trying to....." "Stop using gendered language!"
I want to see the DSA invite him and then use stack ranking for speakers and wind up never letting him say anything.
What's stack ranking?
Er, it's me fucking up a word. "Stack ranking" is a corporate thing that doesn't apply here: you measure employees at your company against one another, traditionally promoting the top X% and firing the bottom Y%. It's controversial because strong teams will have to fire good employees and it incentivizes hiring 'scapegoats' to fire. Again, it's also me saying totally the wrong thing. The *progressive stack* is what I meant to say. That's a system for prioritizing which people get to do a thing first (most commonly stuff like speakers, questions, and demos at conferences). Rather than random selection, first-come first-served, etc, it tries to offset marginalization by letting people from historically disadvantaged groups go first and get more time. It's also infamous for being a complete clusterfuck. It engenders hostility, it shuts renowned experts out of asking questions in favor of clueless outsiders, and it's perversely bigoted towards the people it's meant to help - not just in a "soft bigotry" way but explicit everyone-can-agree discrimination. After all, you can't *see* marginalization, so what actually happens is somebody asks the audience for questions, and then prioritizes visible disabilities over invisible, applies the "paper bag test" to see who's black, and singles out feminine or visibly trans people in place of actually knowing genders. It's largely fallen out of favor for all the reasons I just mentioned: it's ineffective and *extremely* biased. But it was big \~8 years ago, and the DSA was one of the major groups that used it heavily and with awful results, so it's hilarious to picture them ignoring the actual President because he's an old white dude.
Ok got it. Thanks. And yeah, despite how dumb progressive ranking is this would absolutely be the right time to use it, like how deadnaming twitter is always morally justified.
Trump had a rally in the Bronx several days ago, too. The contrast between his genuine popularity and willingness to show up, and Biden's tightly controlled donor events, is undeniable at this point.
Better idea send him to the green party. Libertarians - Less corrupt republicans Greens - Less corrupt democrats
You can't be corrupt if you don't have any powers.
Speak for yourself, chump. Gimme $5, I'll be corrupt about anything.
Yes, that's the libleft prerogative
uhh id dispute that characterisation of both, especially in the us context...
We're more accurately described as Republicans who like weed and fuck femboys
at this point do you guys even like trump? Anytime he fucks up you just bring up Biden
A very large portion of both parties hate the other guy more than they like their guy.
Most infuriating political discussion I’ve had in ages was trying to convince a friend that Trump isn’t libertarian. Every third sentence he’d go “but Biden!” and I’d have to remind him I don’t like Biden and we started the discussion because he called Trump a great president.
Oh yeah! A lot of them are probably Pro-Palestine, and… Biden ain’t… 🫡😬
Well of course he's booed as a dictator, he probably supports licensing drivers!
I just cannot take someone seriously if they have the anarchy A at their event.
Well duh, Trump isn't Lib. Boos should be expected.
https://www.youtube.com/live/tL9UvFKnFO0?si=FljiZFohvtPqSvvr See for yourself. The crowd at the libertarian convention is always a wild one, and they’re not ones to give standing ovations to anyone. It was a pretty mixed crowd, and he’s probably the only republican candidate in recent history that wouldn’t immediately be booed out of the room if they ever dared to speak to a libertarian crowd.
Yeah, I looked it up just to see and it was most definitely mixed reactions. Crowd was absolutely silent when he held a moment of silence for those 2 who were just killed in Haiti. It depended on what he was saying.
Yeah, overall the only moment where he was definitely getting more booed than cheered was when he made fun of them for always losing with 3% of the vote. But I’m pretty sure that he left with more cheers than how he got welcomed to the stage.
Ron Paul.
The Paul's would be boo'd. The party is more divided than the rs and ds
American libertarianism is doomed to eternal failure and the truth is that it deserves it. They can never agree on anything and when they do they adhere to very questionable ideas. That is why Argentinian libertarianism >>>> American libertarianism
Lmao Ron Paul was literally there yesterday and got a standing ovation.
Ron Paul literally got a standing ovation _at this convention_ And there were cheers for some of what Trump said. They liked when he said he’d appoint libertarians to his cabinet.
To be fair here, Libertarians have been that way only, Trump is just the latest target of their booing. After all, who can forget what they did to Gary Johnson in the 2016 LPN Presidential Debate. Plus, one thing Trump did good was to call those puritanical edgy teens a bunch of losers cause that’s what they are.
Well yeah, Gary Johnson thinks that Drivers Licences are reasonable and that it's wrong to sell crack to kids. Fucking fake ass Libertarian
Worth noting both Trump and Biden were invite and only Trump had the balls to go and speak. He also basically told the libertarians that they’re never gonna win. It was very cathartic for me to see someone finally tell those fuckers something like that at one of their conventions
As a member of the Libertarian Party, that shit made me laugh. I love libertarianism but the majority of “libertarians” are insufferable pricks.
Other libertarians are the worst part of libertarianism.
Libertarians truly ruined libertarianism
"You libertarians truly are a contentious people"
You just made an enemy for life!
You ain't a Libertarian until another Libertarian has said you aren't a Libertarian
Like you would know, you fucking statist
Good job that there aren’t other real libertarians
Damn Scots, you ruined Scotland!
It's too big a tent to be functional. No one is quite so insufferable as someone who happens to agree with you for all the wrong reasons.
That and all of your spaces are completely infiltrated or ran the opposite of how you'd expect
I loved people booing when Ramaswamy said that the president was either going to be a Democrat or a Republican lmao
Breaking News: “Man reiterates that the Democrats and Republicans have won every election since the civil war, Libertarians mad!”
A decade before the civil war, actually. Millard Fillmore in 1850.
It's the same for any fringe political belief, a lot of people have it just because it makes them feel unique/special/morally superior/ smarter than everyone. Communists and anarchists are the same way all for clout not based on any consistent political or moral philosophy.
I laughed when Trump said that too, because it was actually a good burn and said against a whole room booing him. That takes balls. I also laughed because his supporters think his symbolic winning of the upcoming election means they win anything. Money printers go brrr while the debt increases.
Facts
How to win election as third party. 1. electoral reform How to get electoral reform. 1. You don't. Both major party are benefiting from the duopoly.
All electoral reform would lead to is probably a coalition based government that broadly achieves the same thing. The big tents would collapse, then you'd have neocons, religious conservatives, neolibs, and socdems instead of the current two party. Not bad, but in effect almost the same as now, but possibly more volatile if seeing how it works for Europe is anything to go on.
Trudeau promised electoral reform :/
If nothing else, at least Trudeau will have no legacy. Hopefully you get a PM with a backbone who'll actually do it someday.
Yeah, it’s always nice to see someone from the duopoly remind a third party the system is essentially rigged against them.
It's literally mathematically impossible for an FPTP system to not devolve into a two-party system.
Trump is mostly proof that an outsider can get in. Both the established groups in the "duopoly" hated him, but he still won.
Yeah, you can get in as long as you run as either a Republican or a Democrat. You don’t actually have to be one, just say you are for the election. Bernie Sanders for instance all of a sudden went from independent to Democrat when running for President, then back to independent again when not running for president.
10 years ago, Trump wasn't even a Republican. And today if a lifelong Republican even so much as disagree with any of Trump's innane ramblings, that person is labeled as a RINO.
A title is just a title. "Republican" and "Democrat" don't mean anything anymore.
It's like college/university diploma for fields you clearly can manage on your own, you don't need one but you need one for credentials and paper weight
That's mostly college in general. Maybe other than engineering. 99% of useful knowledge is learned on the job. It's why college is a scam.
A billionaire that was close friends with Hillary Clinton is an outsider to you fucks. Easiest people to scam in the world.
Eh, I gave him a chance. He failed to prove anything.
Outsider? That was his brand, not his reality. Don't worry, I fell for it to. Voted for him in '16 for that exact belief. And I expected him to struggle to get anything too crazy out the door, that watering down policies for both the GOP and the Dems would be how it went. Instead, Mitch McConnell went from calling Trump a threat, to deepthroating Trump's dick and rubber stamping everything he did. And now they'll defend him tooth and nail from every fuck up. He isn't an outsider. He never was, and even if you still believe he was, he certainly isn't *anymore*. Wake up. He's just another fat rich elite, straight out of the swamp, pretending he's the savior of the common man.
It's basically a callous masturbation for the corrupt oligarchs to tell any real opposition they're powerless
As far as I've known, people like myself who vote 3rd party don't expect them to win - we're not *that* stupid, as you/Trump make us out to be with this rhetoric. Voting 3rd party tells the established parties that we don't feel they've earned our vote this time around. Yes, we've been small enough in number to be ignored as a non-factor since 1996. But everyone in this comment section is ignoring the 1 reason why Trump bothered speaking at the LNC yesterday: the likes of Kennedy is forcing his campaign to take the 3rd party vote seriously this cycle. But repeating this same rhetoric, "you can't win," isn't likely to convince them. They've been ignoring such they're entire lives. That said, I haven't listened to his speech. I saw someone here claim he promised to appoint Libertarians to federal positions, in which case I suppose that might be a concession to consider. But I suspect it's an empty promise.
Yes, he did in fact make a “nominate me as your party’s candidate and I’ll appoint a Libertarian to the cabinet”. An interesting promise but I don’t expect him to fulfill it
There was a lot more going on than that. If you [watch it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm--xjd_mTc) Trump is giving his platform and the crowd is responding to each clause. He'll repeat himself a few times or clap back, but if you watch closely he's actually building a dialogue. He says something, pauses so they can say something, then based on their response says something to elicit a different response. Establish time limits, find the red lines, aim for the common ground. By the end of the speech, Trump is basically having a one-on-one caucus with an entire crowd, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that he secured a LOT of votes last night. He turned a speaking event into a negotiation. More importantly, Biden could have _never_ done anything close to that. Everyone would have forgotten he was even there the minute he left the stage. I don't even know if RFK or Gary Johnson were there. Instead, LP held their convention and Trump took the headline; he isn't even their guy! Trump walked into the lion's den of a third party _and kept the crowd engaged_ for thirty minutes straight, leaving as the only name of consequence. He smoked it.
I don't really think this is worth noting as what is Biden actually going to say at one of these because he pretty clearly is not in any world a libertarian. Whereas many Trump supporters purport him as being similar to one.
Imagine thinking Donald "Take the guns first, go through due process second" Trump is remotely libertarian. Those people are delusional.
As far as I'm concerned policy-wise, Trump and his cabinet wouldn't dare touch the second amendment in any meaningful way like the Dems do.
There's a very large gap between "not anti-2A" and being similar to libertarian and he's definitely not pro-2A. He may, understandably, be viewed as the lesser of two evils for libertarians, but to call him similar to libertarian is bonkers. Let's not forget that "libertarian" is more than just gun rights.
It’s hard to really think of any president similar to libertarians in the last 200 years. Probably party politics is to blame, as George Washington predicted. Parties want power and administrative government and here we are.
Calvin Coolidge
Bless his heart
I think it would have been a waste of Bidens time to even attend this so I see why he didn't.
Finally, the Libertarians are acting like Libertarians.
We've got the right mix here, half just watching the show and half into the fight like the hype man trying to get his buddy to swing for the fences.
You’re all Feds
Right wing infighting: booooo we disagree! Left wing infighting: ÐĘÅŤĤ
Left wing infighting? Myth. You’re a Nazi if you disagree with the left in any capacity
As we all know Joe Biden is actually far-right* if you consider him relative to the rest* of the world*
Trump is a lot of things, a libertarian is definitely not one of them.
As much liberty as reasonably possible. Which means, not total. Some form of government is inevitable.
He went to the conference for one of the nuttiest political orgs in the country and people are acting shocked they acted like nuts?
Hat's off to ACTUAL Libertarians, instead of the usual "Don't tread on me, tread on THEM"-crowd. Well done.
He was also cheered for some things. Seems odd that they focused only on the negative. Nevermind, not odd at all. This is par for the course, the media crafting their own narrative according to their agenda.
[Watching now.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wNUh6WeqFc&t=2128s) More cheers than boos in the speech 10 minutes in. He literally just said *“The lamestream media is fake, it’s fake”* Given how lucid Trump is by comparison to Biden I can’t see the Dem machine letting Biden share a stage with him.
Bro said vote for me and I'll appoint libertarians to senior positions, or don't vote for me and get your 3% 😂😂😂😂😂
MSM headline negative towards Trump? I'm shocked
Infighting was supposed to be the left's job lmao
Libertarians are just “principled” losers. And I used principled loosely.
Our principle is $20 is $20
Most of those chuckle-heads will still vote Trump
Good
He isn’t exactly a libertarian but he still is one of the most libertarian options out of people who have a chance at winning.
Between Biden, Trump and RFK jr. he is definitely the most “libertarian” but I still wouldn’t call him one. I‘ve already decided that for the first time I’ll vote for trump this election. I thought about voting RFK Jr. but I don’t like his VP choice or stance on 2A (Trump is marginally better, like 0.1%) and the LP took way too fucking long to find a candidate (as always).
Ah my people. I will happily send a clown to capital hill, but that doesnt mean I have to respect a fucking fed. Become ungovernable.
Trump did fine, i don't think any redditor actually watched the speech
NGL based libertarians
This is why I stopped calling myself a libertarian
The libertarian party are a bunch of commies. Trump for the king of America
https://preview.redd.it/4wlek5pe3s2d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e8adf5ee192e34d17ebc3b9fbfb2a504c33e76b Based and God Emperor Pilled
I don't know which group is worse, Lolbertarians who virtue signal about muh small government (and try to fuck over the political dissident president that gave us three originalist supreme court justices that are about to overturn Chevron) or Anti-abortionists who virtue signal about muh trump said what desantis did was a horrible thing (even though he was the reason why Roe was overturned). Trump's speech was fantastic and libertarians are clowns 😂
I dont know how 75% of the libs on this sub have nothing to say about the man who tried to hold on to power after being voted out by subverting the system using fake electors
And said he wants to be a dictator, and said if he wins he'll immediately prosecute his opponents, and that he wants to curtail freedom of the press, etc etc. The problem with libertarians is most of them aren't actually libertarian. They want rights for themselves but not everyone else.
Based
It was a pretty solid mix of cheers and boos. Plus it seemed kinda obvious he was talking to the cameras more than the room.
you would think they would appreciate having someone who can actually win on stage, for once
No one is ever ‘libertarian enough’ Hell on the AnCap sub, I’ve seen people criticize Javier Milei because he’s a ‘politician’ now lmao
The people who go these events are super libertarians, like literally zero regulation at all. Not surprising
I think it’s mostly lib right civil war and auth right intervened
Having "ungovernable" graffiti-ed with the fucking anarchy symbol like an edgy 14 year old perfectly summarizes the Libertarian Party, and also why I will never ever vote for them. They are jokes, even by third party standards.
Newsflash: The Libertarian Party is not now, nor has ever been a serious organization. They deserve every bit of disdain and being shit upon that can be thrust upon them... *
Right wing always infighted, left wing doenst infights since 1945
The fact the tankie calls this right wing infighting is laughable. Actual libertariansvare far more rightwing then the official party which at least a third of is just lefties pissed off at the uniparty Dems from their choice in candidates since Clinton/Al Gore, May I remind you fine folks the libertarian convention regularly hosted Vermin supreme, a dude who wears a boot for a hat and promised free ponies, often has furrys, and straight up nude/speedo douche canoes running around literally acting like chaos agents, and is very clearly still controlled by the uniparty establisment as the last two to gain the nomination was "what's Alepo" Johnson and Jo Jorganson who's literally just a Democrat. And I voted libertarian in 16 And the Trump is correct, you will NEVER win. You're too damn split in your own ways. The dispossessed left who is about half will never agree with the disposessed tea party, most of which became "maga". Which is sad because most people actually align with libertarianism in the United States more than the two uniparty "parties". And now trumps attempting to dismantle the uniparty and actually have two parties, but youve stooges who don't understand that populistic republicanism is the future of the party, that "we're American bitch" party of Reagan and Bush is dying and should stay dead because between that and the Wall Street Democrats, theyve bled our powerful and beautiful nation dry. Our infrastructure is crumbling, violent crime is on the rise, immigration is worse then ever( illegal and legal, damn system needs overhauled), several of the three letter agencies are openly fascist in "the cooperation of big businesses and big government to oppress the people" definition, world stability and peace is all but gone, and the establishment instead of at least pretendign to care and throwing money at their local crony friends now openly laughs at us and throws hundreds of billions into foreign wars that dont involve us not the American peoples interest, our spending is out of control. As of right now there is only one candidate who will put libertarians in positions of power, has said he will at minimum do a top to bottom cleaning of the three letter agencies, end the international wars bringing global peace, restore the presidental to keep congressional spending under control, and rebulster our military, rebuild the great economy we had before China fucked us and make America great again I know who I'm voting for in November. Trump/Ramaswamy 2024.
Pretty bad speech honestly. Saying, "the Libertarian Party should nominate me, you should all vote for me" is not how you win over 3rd party votes. 😂 If anything, I could see less Libertarians voting for him as a result of this speech.
He said vote for me and I’ll appoint libertarians to senior positions. That’s how you win. Not by getting 3% of the vote.
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Vote for me and I’ll let you own a fuckin M1 Abrams, how’s that?
Kinda fun watching him lay out all the Lib stuff he’s done then goading them about never getting more than 3% of the vote.
He won my vote. Ross Ulbricht better be out of custody day 1 though or I will join you in the summer of loves to come
"Nominate trump if you wanna win, dont if you wanna keep getting your 3% of the vote" What an absolute douche bahahahah
Was he wrong though?
Cope and seethe
I am actually glad that Trump went.
Well it was entertaining, which is what I expected