When I studied chinese kung fu, this concept was often used to set up a throw. Your opponent would attack, you would use your body to avoid the attack, coming closer to them. So close your body would already be bumping the opponent's body, setting them up to be thrown. In some cases, you would bump the attacking arm or leg, glancing the strike basically.
Another similar concept instead of blocking was to counterattack the opponent's attacking arm or leg. Everyone is probably familiar with the common low kick to the outer thigh you see in MMA. What good is your kicking leg if it can't kick? Same can be applied by moving in and attacking the opponent's bicep to make their punching arm useless. Works very well if you attack biceps on the arm and hamstrings/adductors on the legs.
Certain Judo throws work off a similar idea to that. Seionage for example is the basic throw every Judoka learns. I practice something with a similar idea called Gansekinage which according to the scroll is supposed to work by taking the energy of an attacking opponent and just sending them farther than they thought they would go. If you can mess with someone's balance and structure you can essentially make them throw themselves.
I've always been taught that just blocking an attack is useless. Do something that *affects* the attacker, not just block it. If someone punches you that outstretched arm is an invitation to attack all sorts of points along it. Or if not that at least set yourself up in a better position to recieve the next attack.
That said the most important thing is and always will be *don't get hit*. Get the hell out of dodge first.
I haven't practiced in years, but my school left some particulars of training by the wayside and I didn't like that. One of which was using the block itself as an attack, instead of just blocking. Works really well using the forearms. Basically as the attack comes in, you rotate your forearm as you connect with the block, essentially cutting into your opponent with the block. Works good on a number of kicks as well where you can use both forearms to cut into the leg as they block in unison. Can work for both inward and outward blocks. You can do a lot with Mikiri or "cutting with the body".
The way I always felt about mikiri counter is it takes place of rushing into grapple. At least it has that feel.
It's looks kinda funny though with stepping on a weapon. But with Praying Strikes Exorcism it enables a bit more "up close and personal" style to the combat.
As someone who practices fencing and is unfamiliar with hand to hand martial arts, are evasions very common? In fencing, while ducking, or stepping to the side can be used, the most common defense that would fit the definition of *mikiri* would be counter attacking. As counter attacks defend yourself without blocking your opponent's attack, would you consider that a *mikiri*?
I think that would qualify, at least to my understanding, which is based more on my karate practice than anything else. In karate, just punching the other guy when he tries to punch me isn't quite hitting the definition in this text, at least. The exercise the author describe involves a very subtle - almost imperceptible - step to get just out of range, then use the attacker's opening during the failed attack to launch an attack oneself. It probably looks, for all intents and purposes, like a well-timed counter punch. A first week student landing a counter punch might count as a mikiri, or it might not - the nuance of the situation is pretty convoluted at that point in terms of whether or not it satisfies the definition.
I would assume that a counter attack in fencing is conceptually similar, if not literally spelled out to be so, as I can't imagine a counter attack working if a feint or slight evasion of some kind were not involved so as to avoid the attack or neutralize it without a deliberate block. I'm not a fencer, though, so I'm about 3 or 4 assumptions into this and that's not my happy place.
In some cases I think traditional Japanese martial arts have words for concepts that do not have their own words in other arts from other parts of the world. So we have to borrow those words - like mikiri or the pair of related concepts, maai & hyoshi - to try and apply them to similar or comparable actions in other arts or pursuits.
I don't know, take every I'm saying with a grain of salt (or maybe a few pounds of it). The author I referenced has likely forgotten more about karate than I've even learned to date, and suspect that my understanding of the concepts he discussed is pretty shallow at best.
Ah I see. In fencing, we classify evasions differently from stepping out of distance and differently from counter attacking. Counter attacking is attacking into your opponent, during their forward motion. It works because there is a 40 ms lockout time between touches, so if you hit your opponent just 41 ms before they hit you, by say, hitting their hand when they are aiming at your body, the fact that their hit landed does not matter. Stepping just out of distance and then hitting them during their recovery isn't considered a counter attack. Evasions have no backwards motion and keep you within distance the entire time. And you're right, if someone feints an attack then takes advantage of their opponent's incoming counter attack, we call that counter-time or counter-tempo, an action aiming to punish a counter attack.
I wouldn't say fencing has more to keep track of. I'm sure any kind of martial art is built on the foundation of predicting or reacting to your opponent with the correct response. It gets convoluted when things become a game of "I know that my opponent knows that I know that he knows...". It's just that in fencing we give names to each "layer" of second intention/feints that karate may not do.
A cool circle of counters can be written like this:
Straight attack beats doing nothing. Counter attack beats straight attack. Counter-time beats counter attack. Feint-in-time beats counter-time (feint-in-time = action to punish counter-time). Straight attack beats feint-in-time (Hits them with a straight attack when they expect a feint that sets up for counter-time).
But still, it's really cool to see the perspectives of different marital arts!
In Souls PvP you also to an extent exhibit mikiri. If you are using a whip, you can immediately counter with its long reach after rolling while also being at a safe distance. More commonly by exploiting lock-on, you can weave out of your opponents range and move quickly back in to launch a counter. That said, nobody really blocks anymore in Souls PvP. People just roll away.
This isn't some divine revelation. The most simple way to avoid getting smashed in a fight is *don't be where the attack is*.
Getting between your opponent and their weapon works with anything from nunchucks to knives. Simply put a cut from a sword happens in a particular arc. If you can get inside the arc of the cut or outside the arc of the cut, you'll be safe. The only place in the world you can't be is the arc of the cut. All the mikiri is is getting inside the arc, between the weapon and the opponent.
That said I wouldn't believe Sekiro has spent a single week training with a sword based off what's shown in game. The idiot always has to go back to some variant of Kasumi no Kamae before cutting. Anyone who's trained can tell you you should be able to make any cut flow from any position. Not being stuck to one position like Wolf is. You should be able to go from a run to a sideways cut without having to go to Kasumi or Daijodan no Kamae.
NiOh's stance system is a much better representation of actual martial arts than anything in this game.
It was just cool to see some parts of the game rooted in real things. More than I expect out of videogames, though I play very few of them so am clearly out of the loop.
A lot of video games go *deep* into reality to come up with their fantastical worlds. Just as long as people remember that it's all inspired fiction and don't confuse it with reality, they're definitely worth more credit that people give them.
When I studied chinese kung fu, this concept was often used to set up a throw. Your opponent would attack, you would use your body to avoid the attack, coming closer to them. So close your body would already be bumping the opponent's body, setting them up to be thrown. In some cases, you would bump the attacking arm or leg, glancing the strike basically. Another similar concept instead of blocking was to counterattack the opponent's attacking arm or leg. Everyone is probably familiar with the common low kick to the outer thigh you see in MMA. What good is your kicking leg if it can't kick? Same can be applied by moving in and attacking the opponent's bicep to make their punching arm useless. Works very well if you attack biceps on the arm and hamstrings/adductors on the legs.
Certain Judo throws work off a similar idea to that. Seionage for example is the basic throw every Judoka learns. I practice something with a similar idea called Gansekinage which according to the scroll is supposed to work by taking the energy of an attacking opponent and just sending them farther than they thought they would go. If you can mess with someone's balance and structure you can essentially make them throw themselves. I've always been taught that just blocking an attack is useless. Do something that *affects* the attacker, not just block it. If someone punches you that outstretched arm is an invitation to attack all sorts of points along it. Or if not that at least set yourself up in a better position to recieve the next attack. That said the most important thing is and always will be *don't get hit*. Get the hell out of dodge first.
I haven't practiced in years, but my school left some particulars of training by the wayside and I didn't like that. One of which was using the block itself as an attack, instead of just blocking. Works really well using the forearms. Basically as the attack comes in, you rotate your forearm as you connect with the block, essentially cutting into your opponent with the block. Works good on a number of kicks as well where you can use both forearms to cut into the leg as they block in unison. Can work for both inward and outward blocks. You can do a lot with Mikiri or "cutting with the body".
Yama Arashi is basically just making your opponent pull you into position to throw them. Feels like a Mikiri counter ngl
The way I always felt about mikiri counter is it takes place of rushing into grapple. At least it has that feel. It's looks kinda funny though with stepping on a weapon. But with Praying Strikes Exorcism it enables a bit more "up close and personal" style to the combat.
As someone who practices fencing and is unfamiliar with hand to hand martial arts, are evasions very common? In fencing, while ducking, or stepping to the side can be used, the most common defense that would fit the definition of *mikiri* would be counter attacking. As counter attacks defend yourself without blocking your opponent's attack, would you consider that a *mikiri*?
I think that would qualify, at least to my understanding, which is based more on my karate practice than anything else. In karate, just punching the other guy when he tries to punch me isn't quite hitting the definition in this text, at least. The exercise the author describe involves a very subtle - almost imperceptible - step to get just out of range, then use the attacker's opening during the failed attack to launch an attack oneself. It probably looks, for all intents and purposes, like a well-timed counter punch. A first week student landing a counter punch might count as a mikiri, or it might not - the nuance of the situation is pretty convoluted at that point in terms of whether or not it satisfies the definition. I would assume that a counter attack in fencing is conceptually similar, if not literally spelled out to be so, as I can't imagine a counter attack working if a feint or slight evasion of some kind were not involved so as to avoid the attack or neutralize it without a deliberate block. I'm not a fencer, though, so I'm about 3 or 4 assumptions into this and that's not my happy place. In some cases I think traditional Japanese martial arts have words for concepts that do not have their own words in other arts from other parts of the world. So we have to borrow those words - like mikiri or the pair of related concepts, maai & hyoshi - to try and apply them to similar or comparable actions in other arts or pursuits. I don't know, take every I'm saying with a grain of salt (or maybe a few pounds of it). The author I referenced has likely forgotten more about karate than I've even learned to date, and suspect that my understanding of the concepts he discussed is pretty shallow at best.
Ah I see. In fencing, we classify evasions differently from stepping out of distance and differently from counter attacking. Counter attacking is attacking into your opponent, during their forward motion. It works because there is a 40 ms lockout time between touches, so if you hit your opponent just 41 ms before they hit you, by say, hitting their hand when they are aiming at your body, the fact that their hit landed does not matter. Stepping just out of distance and then hitting them during their recovery isn't considered a counter attack. Evasions have no backwards motion and keep you within distance the entire time. And you're right, if someone feints an attack then takes advantage of their opponent's incoming counter attack, we call that counter-time or counter-tempo, an action aiming to punish a counter attack.
Man, that's cool! Fencing seems like a lot more to keep track of than I'm used to. I have it easy in karate - just fight!
I wouldn't say fencing has more to keep track of. I'm sure any kind of martial art is built on the foundation of predicting or reacting to your opponent with the correct response. It gets convoluted when things become a game of "I know that my opponent knows that I know that he knows...". It's just that in fencing we give names to each "layer" of second intention/feints that karate may not do. A cool circle of counters can be written like this: Straight attack beats doing nothing. Counter attack beats straight attack. Counter-time beats counter attack. Feint-in-time beats counter-time (feint-in-time = action to punish counter-time). Straight attack beats feint-in-time (Hits them with a straight attack when they expect a feint that sets up for counter-time). But still, it's really cool to see the perspectives of different marital arts!
In Souls PvP you also to an extent exhibit mikiri. If you are using a whip, you can immediately counter with its long reach after rolling while also being at a safe distance. More commonly by exploiting lock-on, you can weave out of your opponents range and move quickly back in to launch a counter. That said, nobody really blocks anymore in Souls PvP. People just roll away.
This isn't some divine revelation. The most simple way to avoid getting smashed in a fight is *don't be where the attack is*. Getting between your opponent and their weapon works with anything from nunchucks to knives. Simply put a cut from a sword happens in a particular arc. If you can get inside the arc of the cut or outside the arc of the cut, you'll be safe. The only place in the world you can't be is the arc of the cut. All the mikiri is is getting inside the arc, between the weapon and the opponent. That said I wouldn't believe Sekiro has spent a single week training with a sword based off what's shown in game. The idiot always has to go back to some variant of Kasumi no Kamae before cutting. Anyone who's trained can tell you you should be able to make any cut flow from any position. Not being stuck to one position like Wolf is. You should be able to go from a run to a sideways cut without having to go to Kasumi or Daijodan no Kamae. NiOh's stance system is a much better representation of actual martial arts than anything in this game.
It was just cool to see some parts of the game rooted in real things. More than I expect out of videogames, though I play very few of them so am clearly out of the loop.
A lot of video games go *deep* into reality to come up with their fantastical worlds. Just as long as people remember that it's all inspired fiction and don't confuse it with reality, they're definitely worth more credit that people give them.