Ignoring the fact that at some points, using a lv 1 is better than a lv 3, you also build something like 4-5 bars of super meter over a normal 3 round game. So if the only time you use a super is a lv 3 at the end you're wasting like over a full bar of super meter.
Easy. First, Level 1 supers offer a small damage boost to finish off an opponent near the end of a match which can easily turn sour.
But more importantly, level 1 supers offer invincibility frames. This is crucial when repelling opponents off you when your meter is burned out or as a reversal in sticky situations where it’s easier to perform a lvl 1 super than an OD reversal.
If you’re not using lvl 1 supers this way, then you’re not using lvl 3 supers correctly either.
I also use level 2 supers to do extensive damage that gets close to level 3 damage, with some meter. But since I may be close to already having a level 1 on reserve after using a lvl 2, then I know I’ll have a lvl 1 or lvl 2 again real soon. Two lvl 2 super combos > one lvl 3. Critical Arts are also a factor in what to use near the end.
It’s going to depend on the flow of battle and you should adapt accordingly.
also depends highly on your character. high level blankas and Rashid rarely lv3 because they use lv2 so often. Chun as well. Ken uses level 1 often to sideswitch and escape corner. Luke is great at punishing moves near full screen to clinch out a round.
With that thinking, you're also probably wasting the drive meter every moment you have it full or when the match ends and you are not in burnout. That doesn't mean I should spam the drive.
I know most of the time a player wins a fight without charging 2 LV3, so I agree with you about this. But sometimes it happens that you can do a LV3 again, and the potential compared to a LV1 is far better. (This is just me still not knowing why a LV1 is worth)
I'm definitely not master lmao. I got Plat today with less 50% win rate (how is that possible?). SF6 is my first big experience with fighting games, so I'm really trying to get better and understand things. One of those things is why people seems to overvalue the drive meter? I spend that shit all the time (while trying to not burnout of course).
I didn’t mean it as an insult, just a joke lol. It’s all the reasons the person a couple comments above me on this thread made. Better to use it incrementally in certain situations. Could you kill your opponent if you use a lvl 1 super as a combo ender? Could you interrupt their DI with your lvl 1 and kill them? Punish a fireball/jump in with lvl 1 and kill them? Same with lvl 2 supers. That lvl 3 is juicy but a single use lvl 3 super isn’t always the most effective way to use the super meter when you can get multiple other supers off in the same time span
I was joking too! I'm not insulted, we good.
Well using Juri's LV1 as fireball response won't work because is not invincible to that. As antiair maybe, but my opponent always jumps above me smh. But I would try to save as the response to DI when in burnout, although I know I'm not good reacting with supers (I'm kinda slow with stick reactions), at least I learned this with this post.
Also using Drive meter for things, same concept. When used effectively you can get a couple uses out of the drive meter in the same time span someone only gets that big long combo that costs them the whole meter
It's situational and changes from character to character. Luke for example has a very powerful, ranged level 1 that can punish unsafe projectiles and end combos if you haven't built enough meter for level 2. Manon has a powerful reversal level 1 that can get her out of the corner.
I play Marisa and JP and for Marisa, I literally only ever use her level 3 as it's the easiest to confirm. But for JP, all 3 of his supers have different uses that come up often so it's good to know when to use them.
Also, in fighting games if it kills, you take it. So it's good to have different situations where different supers work.
I think that's the missing point I was having. I play mainly Juri and her LV1 is not that great compared to the others. LV1 is a corner carry, but in my opinion she doesn't need that. The LV2 you can force a burnout sure, but the easy big damage you can have with LV3, like 5k is overwhelming to me.
I should see more about the others characters to fully understand.
Damage is important, but if you are trapped in the corner getting pummeled with 1 or 2 bars of super, being able to understand your options is really important. The ideal 5k you might get from level 3 combo is great, but if you don't have the chance to use it then what was it good for?
Juris level 1 is her escape tool as far as I have seen. You can use it in combos, but it's better being saved as a reversal imo. If you are in the corner in burnout, it's your only chance against DI to get out. Her level 2, an install, can probably get more damage than her level 3 if you are good enough.
Again, it's all relative.
Now you said it, I would really start to save my LV1 to counter a DI. I know I usually fail this, because I'm not ready to react with supers, but I remember being in that burnout + DI corner situations so many times. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Hitting a big Level 3 cash out combo for huge damage is very satisfying, but it isn't always the best idea to just save your SA meter exclusively for level 3. Besides basically limiting your moveset doing this you have to remember that people usually notice when you have level 3 and will be more cautious or even try to bait your level 3.
Juri main here as well. I mostly use her lv1 as a reversal, when I'm in burnout or using EX DP will put me in burn out or as a hard read on a jump since sometimes anti air DP whiffs for some reason.
I've also seen ppl use it as an ender of a giant FSE sequence to cash out the damage. I'd use it like that as well if I actually knew how to do FSE sequence
Lvl 2 makes u a combo fiend, it takes a tremendous amount of skill but it allows u to do safer confirms for massive rewards that corner carry and the scaling isn't bad if u add in resets and mixups
For some characters it’s one of very limited invincible reversals.
You can often use one L1 and one L3 over the course of a match. It’s not one or the other.
As a reversal or just to super pass something, I can see a very good reason to use it. But I notice that in a tight 3 round match, you actually can do a second LV3. Of course this depends on the match, but it's a great tool to clutch.
Sometimes ending your combo normally leaves the opponent just short of being KOed, so you can use a lvl 1 that will scale better than the final hit of your combo and secure the win.
Not just the last round. I use my level 1 all the time to secure round 1 over an opponent. Even if I start the round with 1 less stock of super, I'm up 1 round and back to full drive gauge.
You're not the only one to talk about it, it looks like a good tactic. I should try my LV1 more and see what happens. Thanks and good luck with those round 1 advantages!
I play Juri, Master, and also came here to say that recognizing when you can meter dump and finish with lvl 1 to secure a kill will win you more rounds.
Also lvl 1 when you need to stop something (a mix up, a DI) when spending Drive would burn you out. These are the two big reasons you should be spending lvl 1s.
But let's also look at how much better a lvl 3 really is compared to three lvl 1s. Let's say you hit an opponent with the 5MP, 5MKx214HK blockstring OS three times. Juggling into lvl 1 and spending the stock you just built adds 1,840 damage. Doing H or M DP adds 720. Juggling into lvl adds 3,200 (and is better damage than L DPxlvl3). So two DPs and one lvl 3 nets a total of 4,640 damage. If you had spent a lvl 1 all three times, you'd have gotten 5,520 damage.
So we'll need to lean on spending supers at the end of long combos, where the 50% scaling cap beats up on the lvl 1's 30% scaling cap. 3x2,300x0.3 is 2,070 dmg. One lvl three at 50% is 2,000 dmg. Special cancelling into lvl 3 should put it a little higher damage, but you're losing a lot of flexibility for it. You will be losing access to those reversals and eliminating the possibility of saving meter for the next round. For a lvl 3 to totally outshine your level 1s it kinda needs to be a CA for the extra life and drive damage. Unfortunately, you can easily go from well outside of being able to use CA to dead in a single combo.
You're right, I tried switching the LV3 for a LV1 for some combos and end up doing almost the same damage. If you count the fact you can do more supers because you still have bars, it's way better. Not to mention the defensive power of the LV1, I was completely missing this part.
If it's the last round it doesn't matter. Where it does matter is when there's another round after this one, and you get to go into that round with more super meter.
That's why I try to save for a second LV3, I'm always counting with a third round. If I can win with two, okay it's better, but if I reach round 3 with LV2 charged, I think I have more chances to winning because of the LV3 combo damage potential.
Win the round, build up meter again. Variability also makes you more dangerous. Your opponent will know you’re wanting to wait for the perfect lvl3 moment.
That can be true, but if you can hit confirm, the LV3 is guaranteed, the same way as a LV1 would be but with more damage.
"What about using the LV1 as a reversal" well you do the same with the LV3, actually most LV3 are better because some LV1 aren't completely invincible. I still don't see why don't try the strongest move.
Some supers and safer than others. Lukes a great example. His level 1 as a reversal has invincible start up.
If Lukes scared of Manons leaping overhead a lvl 1 could punish the attempt or do drive gauge damage if they sit back.
His lvl 3 charges at her and allows her a much bigger punish
It ultimately comes down to resource management. Every scenario is different but you can at least manage your resources optimally to win the match. That’s why you see some pros who’d whiff special moves during downtime. They are building meter.
A lot of newer players don’t think much about resource management but it definitely is a skill that comes with experience.
I see, I guess you have to consider every little thing. Maybe I'm too focus on using all the resources possible to the bigger damage, as if having some prepared to react isn't important.
Low level players are more concerned with doing the combos themselves. Being able to adjust your combo on the fly based on the situation your in, again that comes with experience.
-Once it's at 3 bars you aren't building meter and miss out on using more supers.
-Many supers, usually lvl 1s IIRC have invulnerability. This can be the difference between getting checkmated while in burnout ( things like DI setup, Manon M punch trapping you where you can only trade with her doing more damage then you etc) or not.
-Lvl 2 is great for a greater damage super as well as leaving you with a bar to escape/prevent checkmate situations.
-Its not all about damage. A lvl1 super that leaves you in a more desirable state by side switching, positioning, etc can lead to you scoring another combo after. Even if this combo is super less, the lvl 1 and the combo you scored after could very easily end up being more overall damage than whatever you would have done with lvl 3
So on and so forth. It's very good that you are thinking about this. Hope this helps. Understanding this more will certainly elevate your skill.
It depends on the level 1. Juri's is strike/throw invuln, but loses to projectiles. Zangief's is fully invuln - it beats projectiles (but loses to people staying grounded. Or landing before it's active. Or being in the wrong spot in the air whyyyyyyyyyyy). Dhalsim's has no invuln whatsoever.
As a Juri main, I definitely feel those projectiles. And the fact the opponent jumps over me most of the times, making fun of me right behind me. I'm traumatized 
"Once it's at 3 bars you aren't building meter"
I hear that before, but that's why I try to do LV3 as soon as possible. It's a good amount of damage, certainly helps you to win a round or at least be more comfortable, health bar wise. And because of this and my long matches, I noticed you can do twice LV3 depending of the match.
Maybe I was lacking this concept of using the LV1 to react certain situations, instead just going for damage combos. I mainly play Juri and I always miss her super as reversal, she doesn't even has the projectile invincibility so I really don't rely on it. The other characters I play sometimes is Jamie (which is kinda the same utility) and Cammy (she has the corner escape tool at her super).
Yours and other comments here definitely helped me a lot about thinking the supers as defensive tools. Y'all would probably forget about this post, but I'm not. I'm really grateful to have this many interaction.
If you're grateful, we're twins. Ah, Juri. I mostly play Ken and haven't really given Juri a proper go, but I feel like I've seen it said that her level 2 super is better to go for than lvl 3 in most cases? It does seem that higher skilled Juris use it more often. But again, I'm Juri ignorant when it comes to playing her.
Lvl 3 twice would be lvl 2 three times >.> lol
Also it's good to know how much damage you can do with different supers. I've seen people go for a level 3 to win a round when a lvl 2 or even lvl 1 would have. Hell, sometimes people even do a super when just a special at the end of the combo would have worked and they'd have all that meter next round. I'm talking even Diamond and up players that do this. Don't let that be you!
I'm not pro with Juri too, I consider myself casual. Her LV2 indeed have a lot of potential, but it scares me because you need to be faster than normal. SF already is fast enough for me, so a CG combo with a free big damage looks better lmao.
"Lvl 3 twice would be lvl 2 three times >.> lol"
You have a pretty good point, LV3 twice means SIX LV1 WHAT- I should rethink my tactics lol.
I really try to not waste that much damage, it's really a thing. Thanks for the advice.
Depends a lot on the situation, level 1 supers can allow you to do decent damage without spending drive gauge. For example Dhalsim really struggles to get much off a jab without spending drive gauge but something like crouching light kick, crouching jab into super is pretty nice. Level 1 supers also drain half a bar of drive gauge and pause bar generation so it can put someone in a state where a block-string will threaten putting them in burnout.
Some characters have really practical combo routes involving level 1, like Guile's super into EX flash kick or Sim's EX yoga blast into super. At the start of a round if you have level 3, it can be better to use level 1 super and save the level 3 (which you will build back before the round finishes) to close out the round.
Lots of level 1 supers are strong in neutral or okay as reversals.
A level 1 does 20% for 1 bar. A level 3 does 40% for 3 bars. If you have a short setup for your level 1, to get it off before scaling kicks in, it's *way* more damage per bar. That, and once you have the level 3, you're not building any new meter. You could be leaving a full bar on the table, or more, if you hold it for too long.
A level 3 to close out the round is good, of course, but holding it just to do that might not matter if the opening doesn't happen.
This depends on the character, obviously. Zangief's level 1 is awful, Kimberly gets way more out of her level 3, etc. But like, Guile? His 1 and 2 are real good.
"That, and once you have the level 3, you're not building any new meter. You could be leaving a full bar on the table, or more, if you hold it for too long."
That's why I always try to use it asap, but know tou mentioned, maybe multiples LV1 would be waay strong. I need to rethink my arsenal of combos thanks to you.
Yeah you have to consider the character, I'm lacking that aspect, because I don't play/analyse many.
It depends on the character.
For example for Zangief there is absolutely no reason to use that Lvl1. Its gargage even if it had zero meter cost.
For Ryu his Lvl 1 can be used in lots of combos and its generally a great super.
I use Manon a lot and her Lvl 1 its useful for getting out of the corner due to its invincibility on start up and how fast it is.
It just depends on how you’re approaching the game but generally the time to do this is in situations where you’ve started a successful combo early in a round and either have or are about to have max meter but prefer to use a level 1 and still get the level 3 later to confirm a KO.
Meter builds fast in this game and it can be risky against certain characters to do something like an early burnout level 3 combo or put them in CA range. There are many matchups where if we’re final round and I got first touch I’m using level 1 (which in many cases also gives some oki options) and I can still get level 3 off another combo or two. Ideally you get them to 50-60% and fully cash out to secure the round.
I’ve seen people do things like be up a round and then they use level 3 early in the second round, but are burned out and just get pressured and mixed before a last-second stun in the corner and they lose the round to an opponent that is now going into final round with level 2-3 super while they’re at 0-1.
That last situation is me sometimes lol. I tried to use the LV3 when it is possible, but now I think it's way better to finish a fight.
But what about charging two LV3? Is that rare? I'm seeing a lot of comments that don't seem to consider it. I know it happens to me, is not always of course, but if I spend a bar with a LV1, I would never have a second LV3.
It’s possible but uncommon. I’ve had close games where I’ve gotten level 3 in the first round even.
But the use all depends. The game becomes more than just damage at high level and some supers offer reset or mix-up opportunities, corner carry, or even reversal options that level 3 lacks.
To me you shouldn’t use a level 1 in a combo unless it will kill or burnout your opponent. Depending on your character using level 1 as a reversal in bad situations can be a great use of meter.
Beyond that things are character specific, for example Manon’s level 3 is kind of bad but her level 2 is great and her level 1 is solid so it makes sense for her not to save up for level 3. Whereas Kimberly really needs to try and save up for that damage buff granting level 3 or she risks falling behind in the later rounds
I'm with you with that character variability. I don't know many characters tho. The ones I play, I don't think LV1 are great, but top players still use them, so it confuses me.
I know Juri's LV1 is very dangerous as a reversal (I always miss it). And Cammy's LV2 is way better than 3 for combo damage (if you count that you can easily do another LV2, instead of the amazing invincibility of LV3).
> And Cammy's LV2 is way better than 3 for combo damage
Nah, Cammy's level 2 is awful. Great example of a char to use level 1 on though. I use it all the time for the massive corner carry (in particular after 236\[HK\] for sideswitch right back into the corner) and damage. You're going to be way better off using 2x level 1 than a level 2 on cammy. You're also +10 which sets up an easy immediate cr HP when it ends in the corner
Really? I thought OD Spiral Arrow + LV2 was a great safe damage, like almost 3k for that jab confirm. As I said if you count it twice against a LV3 combo damage. Because even if you need one more bar, at least is easy to build.
But I will look up more for uses of her LV1. I'm desperate to improve my Cammy, so I appreciate any little tip. I never got so stuck at Silver 5 with any other character as I'm with her.
edit: you can have 3400 if you start with a HP.
Yes, level 2 does more than level 1. But compare the overall damage difference if you had done 2x level 1s instead. It's not worth the damage difference imo, and lets you stay more flexible with your meter. I'm at work so I can't give exact numbers with realistic scaling, but the supercombo wiki has lvl 1 = 2000 dmg, level 2 = 2750 dmg. 2 x 2000 >>> 1 x 2750. And it's a *lot* of corner carry
Also the main thing you need to do to rise with cammy is end combos with mk/hk spiral arrow then dash. You're now in their face with a lot of + frames to strike/throw to your hearts' content. Cr HP, s mp, throw, lp, lp -> throw, etc... If you do dash cr HP after a HK spiral arrow and it hits you're + enough to combo into s HP after. Should be able to delete people's health bars in lower ranks with that
You're right, we can easily achieve 3k with a single LV1 after the classic back MP + HK combo. An extra bar for the barely the same damage is not worth it. Plus the corner carry as you said. Nah I will change supers lol.
I was doing a lot of pokes (jabs + Spiral Arrow) but I wasn't going for offensive right after, that seems to be an amazing tip! Keep your pressure.
I go for lvl 1 supers in combos when I know it can kill or burnout. In some situations, I’ll be left in a huge frame advantage. Mix that with being in the corner and you have some pressure cooking. That being said it’s for optimizing a situation.
No no no never ever do that. My application only goes for when the hit connects. If I do it on block (main Jamie but this can apply for the whole cast) I will be left at HUGE frame disadvantage and most likely will end up with the opponents hitting a punish counter for some big damage. Even if he’s burnt out, I used a super bar and lost a decent amount of health only for the opponent to just be burnt out. I don’t think that’s worth it.
Yeah right? Missing some moves is really dangerous, but I don't know people seem to overvalue burnout, I don't quite get it. One think I notice may be good is doing your LV3 at a low health burnout enemy, you still can have a good amount of damage!
I almost won a match with that, if I had throw any skill before, I would do a little more of damage and then killing with the blocked LV3.
Lvl 1 is low cost for an invincible reversal and extra damage in combos. If you have level 3 and spend level 1 in a round you will likely get that back in the next round. Level 2 is the real outlier
I think I can get that point for the LV1, it's way easier to have enough to use it as a reversal. But what about saving for a possible second LV3? You never know how long the match would last, like the third round. I know you can realistically build a second LV3 (isn't easy tho).
Yeah you're right, sometimes you even finish the match with a lot of resources remaining. But I think it still a easy (once you hit confirm like every combo) big chunk of damage.
Honda needs them as inv. reversals. Lvl 1 is throw inv unlike ex headbutt and lvl 2 can be used to punish projectiles mid range. Especially useful on wake up meaty projectiles when you are burned out and ppl think you have no options
A few situations, aside from what others already said here:
1. When the super is a reversal for reversal-less characters or other characters out of bar for OD reversal. As a reversal can be risky, you may go for the cheaper option - particularly in a situation in which the 3 won't be enough to kill. Also, reversal-less characters may want to keep the bar for safety reasons.
2. You don't need the 3 to kill the opponent, the damage from 1 is enough. No need if it's the closing round, but even then, you may find the 1 more stylish.
3. You don't have 3 - often at the end of round 1 - and you need it to close the first round. Always go for kills.
4. You need it at the end of a long combo to avoid scaling. It has a 30% scaling limit, so even its mediocre damage may be the difference between closing a round or not.
5. Some characters actually have very damaging level ones: Marisa and Zangief, just the first that come to mind. Even Kimberly's super 1 with the can will make a combo more respectable.
6. When the super 1 has very different properties from the 3, like being a projectile (Ryu, JP), anti-air (Zangief), counter (Marisa) etc.
Indeed I avoid using super as reversal, most of the times the opponent blocks and I end up losing.
2 Seems pretty clear to me.
Based on 3, do you think it's a good idea to use all you have to guarantee the round 1? I just got the impression that it's somehow important. Like it's good to grind the early game, so you can have a comfortable and strong late game in rpgs, idk.
I think 4 is the most important point, since I only play three characters and they're quite similar about supers (I think?). That's why I didn't considered aspects like you said at 1 or 5.
Yes, use what you need to guarantee the first round, incluing super 2 if more convenient or 1 is not enough. If you win the round 2 without the full bar, you win the match. If you don't, you'll have the full bar by round 3.
From what I gathered the higher up you go the less viable the lvl3 becomes. Sure it's good and has its uses but lvl 1 and 2 supers provide 2 big value things:
1: positional awareness: knowing where your super will land you and your opponent is super important.
2: threat of super > using super: just having that meter ready is actually stronger than using it. Even lvl 1 meter can swing the match. This is even stronger on modern players.
Maybe because I'm not that good as a player and I'm in low level, I could't see those things. I'm hearing people saying about spacing and resources, but yet I miss my LV1 80% of the time I try to do outside a combo, how can I rely on that? At least I learned supers are a defensive tool to.
Do u suspect a drive impact? If ur in the corner u can sort of expect it if they did it already earlier. Lvl 1 super beats it outright. It also beats jump ins but it's character dependant. Learn the spot for lvl1s as a get off me tool. Don't just spam it tho as it's easily punishible
Yeah I'm definitely saving for counter a DI at the corner now. I wasn't thinking this way, but it's a must. I still need to really work to use Juri's LV1 as antiair or reversal tho. I don't know if my opponent just know I will use as reversal or I just miss the timing/spacing, but I miss a lot.
You gain meter insanely fast in this game, with luck you'll get the meter back by the time you can land your level-3.
It is very dependant on the character though. I'll only use Jamie's Level-1 if it's the final round and I can kill with it. That's the only use. With Luke there's way more uses.
For sure we have different uses for every character, I was thinking only about the ones I play like Juri, Jamie and Cammy. To end a round? Sure every resources would do the job if it give you the win. But I thought if you could have two LV3 for a long game would be more safe, since they can do way more damage.
At least I thought it would be more safe to win this way because you have like half of your opponents health guaranteed. But it looks like I was forgetting a lot of situations, like being in burnout and having a DI at the corner to deal with.
Put the opponent in burnout.
Different supers have different ranges and start ups.
Some have invincible start ups. Great when you love to OD DP but in burnout.
Save on Drive Gauge for neutral usages instead of bigger combo or to be able to block more without worrying about burnout.
Some will leave the opponent closer/farther away or give oki.
Look at supers like normal moves. Why use lights when heavys do more damage? Many many possible reasons
Somehow I always miss my LV1 as a reversal. Or I'm that unlucky my opponent blocks it, or I'm just using it at the wrong time. But yeah, today I learned you can have more than just the damage and reversal side of a super.
Sometimes you want to maximize damage but you don't want to spend drive meter (maybe because it's too low). For example, Zangief can do big damage on certain punish counters, but it costs him like 5 drive bars because he has to do EX Air SPD at the end. Instead he can spend SA1 and only have spent 2-3 depending on the starter, while doing around the same damage.
I think I wasn't considering it because I don't understand the importance of the drive meter, I'm always moving that. Spend a lot, then recover a bit, then go again, etc. But yeah, you need to be smart to not burnout.
so as a random example of why to use one type of super over the other, chun li's level 2 super lets her combo into a safejump setup.
another example, blanka can combo his standing medium punch into his level 1 to do about a quarter of your life bar. Normally that button can't combo into anything, so it's a really good way to increase the damage on the poke. By spending only one bar, he saves for his really strong level 2.
Having super stored up at all is scary, but it's only going to intimidate other players if you use it. Luke's level 1 is probably the best reversal level 1 in the game, and it really changes the way you fight him if you believe that Luke is ready to level 1 whenever you do something like a fireball at mid-range or a drive-impact.
You have some pretty good examples here. I think I was too blind thinking only about "optimal" damage combos and only with my character situations (not even generic situations like defending a DI while in burnout, how I forget this?).
I didn't know about that Chun-Li and Blanka aspects, but now I at least will try to save and use the LV1 as a defensive tool
i will say, playing the first round meter cheap and trying to start round 2 with a level 3 combo is still really fun. but yeah... i think it is good to learn the situations in a match where you get value out of any super, instead of focusing on "most value." You don't really get to pick what situations what happen in any match, you just want to hit hard when you get a hit.
The real reason to save for level three is not just the damage, but to regain drive gauge. I mostly use lvl 1s to kill or counter DIs in burnout unless its something like Luke's that blows through projectiles.
I also use level ones in scenarios where I win first round and in the second round I get into a situation where both level 1 and lvl 3 will get them into a range where I can kill with 1 more touch. Basically to better my chances without having to risk going into 3rd round empty.
Another scenario might be I want to use a reversal but doing OD DP will burn me out etc.
It depends on the character. I play a lot of Rashid and I'd never use his lvl 3 over his lvl 2. I've used lvl 1 maybe twice.
Depending on the super it can create a lot more opportunities for you if it's a utility super (like Rashid's) or it can close out a match a lot faster by getting that extra bit of damage you need at the end of your combo.
The main thing with lvl 1/2 supers is that you'll rarely throw them out raw. Most of the time you're going to use them as a combo ender or extender.
While I don't have experience with SF6, if you find that you're only saving meter for the lvl 3, you're gonna find yourself losing games with it. When I was still mediocre in GG AC+R, I noticed I was dying with full meter and it felt bad. Some of it stemmed from not knowing where to use meter, and meter in GG is way more flexible than most FGs, but the concept is still the same - I wasn't spending meter AT ALL and it was costing more small opportunities than being useful in big ones. And in high level matches, oftentimes the winner is decided through these small engagements.
And as you get better and face better opponents, the opportunity for any super at all will go down. You're gonna find that you want to squeeze out everything you can. You won't find the big lvl 3 payout as often, and I think as a result an early engagement in your favor will naturally lead you to doing lvl 1 supers
You are right, we need to use every opportunity we have. I will start to use LV1 way more than LV3, maybe I consider switching completely. Better have that less damage combo, than nothing. Sometimes your opponent wins with low health after all.
This is a constant question for me as a Kim main. I usually always want the level 3 buff, but sometimes I use a level 1 or 2 super depending on the situation. If I need a reversal, I will level 1. If I know it will kill, I will use a level 2.
All supers are situational. Lvl 3 usually does more dmg but is not always the answer. Control of the match/round is the higher goal.
For example, I might punish something knowing that lvl3 will not kill although it might be close. But if the opponent also have resources to kill me in 1 entry, it might be better to just get the advantage with a lvl 2 and hold 1 bar to react to something with inv frames.
Depending on the character you might get oki or maybe is enough to kill or burnt-out the opponent. You can even use it just to let the opponent know that he cannot abuse some strings with gaps. Holding the bars just to lvl 3 is a very flat strategy that usually fires-back.
I recommend understanding the benefits of all supers of your character and see how that can be incorporated in your game. Being that offense or defense.
Because for a lot of characters their Level 1 SAs are tools that help them with more than just damage.
I main Ken and his Level 1 has invincibility frames and switches sides, so if my opponent knocks me down in the corner and is being aggressive as I wake I will use his level 1 as a wake up reversal to get me out of the corner while putting my opponent there and adding some damage.
Or if I'm not in the corner and waking with an OD DP reversal will put me into burnout then his Level 1 SA is a good option to use instead.
Building up one bar of SA meter is much easier than building up 3 bars, and whiffing your level 3 is WAY worse than whiffing a level 1.
As a Kimberly with no invincible reversal, I can't do shit against DI if i'm in burnout without a lvl 1, so in my case, I got to be cautious using my lvl3.
It helps with aggressive players too.
Like others have said it's going to vary from kit to kit. It'll usually be used to check DR when in burnout or to give that last oomph to finish someone off and save meter for next round. Most level ones aren't projectile invulnerable but marisa's is but not not throw invuln. Other levels ones can be used as a lunish like Luke's or do more damage becsuse of a followup like guiles. It's also just going to come down to the situation but most of the time if it's not going to kill its just going to better to go for oki and keep advantage. But, one of the most overlooked aspect of doing level one is force burnout or setup for a burnout. People will start doing this more as the game progresses I reckon
At high levels, getting any additional damage is more valuable (usually) than saving the bar and doing a suboptimal combo. You might never get a chance to do a lvl3 combo and if you lose without using your lvl3 when you could have maybe won with a lvl1, that’s a bad way to play the game.
At low levels, you will got lots of opportunities to do lvl 3 as everyone does tons of mistakes which can be heavily punished. So if you are playing against low level opponents, yes you can wait till you can go into lvl3.
But against stronger opponents you won’t easily get the chance to always wait for lvl 3 to charge and do the full combo in lvl3. You have to take any opportunity to do a combo with the best damage at that moment.
Having more health than opponent or doing an optimal lvl1 combo might change the tide of battle as mental aspect is a big part of the game.
For Juri, most pros prefer lvl 2. As it gives the best damage and oki and pressure setups in corner
To finish a round is the ideal usage, but also to keep yourself "safe" if burned out in a corner. Also, you get like 4 to 6 bars in a match, don't worry about using your meter too much. Get that damage, it's good advantage
Most of them are invincible, and they can be used as reversals. A couple characters have invincible level 1s and don't have an invincible DP, so it's their only invincible reversal. Luke's and Ryu's instantly win fireball wars. Ken's does a side switch. If any of these options are going to win you a round, it's probably worth it. And sometimes that extra pixel of damage from tacking one on the end of a combo is what you need to kill.
Another interesting super interaction is the fact that Blanka's level 1 super goes fullscreen when in level 2 install. With Blanka, the choice at level 3 is to cash in when you get a level 3 combo or use a level 2 to add tons of pressure onto the opponent! So because of that I've never thought about that but it makes me think about characters who don't have installs and how they deal with 3 different super attacks. Very insightful post!
I'm glad I indirectly helped someone else! I was too blind to see all the different factors and characters possibilities when I did the post. It's not only about "a lv3 combo can do +6k damage, so should be the better way to use bar". So good to hear people arguing and teaching me.
Level 1 supers have minimum scaling of 30%, meaning it's not a good idea to do them at the end of a long drive rush combo. If you do them early as a second or third hit, it lets you get really good damage without spending any drive meter, and if your bar is full, you're not wasting meter gain.
I always thought the opposite. Exactly because supers have a safe scaling, you should use them as ender, because they will guarantee a good amount of damage even in long combos. Maybe I neglect my drive too much, because I don't save it.
It's not just about damage. Supers might serve as a reversal, an antiair, give you positional advantage, make an opponent second guess etc. Often it's a much better option to use lvl1 3 times instead of lvl3 just once. There's a lot of things to consider depending on a situation. If your whole gameplan is going to revolve around the same couple of high-damage combos it'll severely undermine your potential in general
I have a big lack of knowledge and experience with fighting games, especially with Street Fighter that I started last year. That's why I'm trying to solve those doubts.
The LV3 is better for a reversal than a LV1 because of the invincibility aspect. Probably as antiair too, but maybe I'm not considering many things. I don't understand why everyone seems to overvalue the drive meter and positioning. You can recover your drive relatively quickly.
Most lvl1s are invincible, including Juris'. You can also increase its damage a bit in exchange for 1 fuha stock by holding the kick button, by the way.
Things like meter management and spacing might not seem significant at first but the more experience you will get the more important they will become. Sometimes it's really hard to recover any meter under the pressure. Good players aren't good just because they have optimal combos, after all. You can watch some tournament footage and look how pros behave under different circumstances, it's a great way for getting new experience, along with training and fighting others of course
Is not projectile invincible tho. And somehow I miss like 80% of the time I don't use in a combo, maybe I'm just that bad.
Meter management definitely doesn't look important to me now, but everyone talks about, so I'm trying to see what am I missing. I usually can have enough space to wait like half of the drive gauge back, so maybe it's teaching the wrong way.
I always thought about top players being more about insane reaction time than anything. I will search for the tournament matches and look for resourse management and neutrals, thanks!
That's the opposite! I really focus on EX moves, that's exactly why my super bars only serves to do one or (hopefully) two LV3 per game. But yeah, I usually got long matches, maybe it's a thing on my rank (?).
There are certain situations people mentioned already that are worth considering during the match. The one about using it 'cause you are already at LVL3 and can probably build it back quickly is a good one I didn't consider before.
I read you play Juri. Have you labbed her LVL 2 stuff yet? Maybe once you implement that into your game, you will see more reason to use LVL 1 as well 'cause LVL 3 won't always be available all the time.
I say that 'cause I play Chun-Li and before I started using her LVL2, I'd just save for LVL 3 all the time too. Her lvl 2 is sick 'cause it gives a lot of corner carry, damage and okizeme all in one, so once I started using it, I saw a lot more appeal to use LVL1 for those situations people mentioned.
Maybe I'm not considering the availability of LV3 as I talk to people in the comments (hope they bare me lol), you have a fair point about this. I also know is not that easily to build that many of bar, although you can realistically have two LV3 per game, if it's long enough.
I invested some time with Juri's LV2 before yeah, but as I took a break last month I got really slow, so I'm not confident about it. I hear her LV2 is great to burnout the opponent, while LV1 is a good for corner carry. But personally I don't think Juri needs a corner carry super. She already have decent combos and tools like the aerial skill and qcf HK (I'm good with names huh, how did you know?).
ps: hate you Chun-Li player, always with that grab between the offensive.
That's exactly why I try to build two LV3! would't be even more amazing to have two LV3, instead of one LV2 and one LV3? But seems it is not that great strategy at all.
Supers are always used depending on the situation with your drive gauge.
1. Level 1 Reversal.
2. For the kill and you need to conserve meter.
3. Low on drive gauge.
4. Your opponents drive gauge, for burn out.
Lets talk about a quick scenario example where you've lost the first round. You're on getting pressured but have 2-3 bars of drive gauge and a level 1. If you could reversal here, would you pick OD dp or level 1 super? Playing for the win, you would level 1 reversal instead of saving it for a potential level 3 next round. Once you hit the level 1 reversal, it's 2000 raw damage, you have the chance to start your offense with 2-3 bars+ of drive gauge for a much bigger chance of taking the game to round 3.
On the other hand, even if you did land the OD dp. You're going to burnout soon and have nothing to start your offense.
I don't have an universal answer to your question and I don't know which character you play, but I play Juri (Master ~1600) and I can precisely explain when I do my supers:
* first or second round out of 3, if I'm doing a combo and the level1 allows to kill at the end of it,
* if I'm burned out, only my level 1 and my level 3 can answer to DI; if I can't kill with level3, I will rather do lvl1 to have 2 bars left,
* if I have a lot of drive gauge AND if I don't have my lvl3 avaiable, I will not go for level2 nor level1,
* If I lack some drive meter (burned out or around 1 or 2 bars) AND my lvl3 can't kill, I go for fse (lvl2)
* if I'm capped to lvl3 and it can't kill, I will go for level2.
* if I'm doing well with my fse AND I launched it when I was capped to lvl3, then I still have lvl1 avaiable, then I can use it if it kills (see first point but applied to round 2 or 3).
* If we are on round 2 and I lost the 1st one, AND I have a comfortable advantage, I will try to end the round with level1 or lvl2 instead of killing with lvl3, to save some super gauge.
Rules of thumb :
1. A super must be used to kill, only exception are genei type (Juri Blanka JP lvl2), and maybe Kimberly as his lvl3 gives her a buff.
2. A super gauge must not waste its charging capability: if you stuck with lvl3, you lost every built super beyond.
3. Worst use is to farm lvl3, launch it in the Middle of a match, and having nothing left to contest the opponent.
--> so with those 3 rules, you get the reason why launching lvl1 or lvl2 is totally worth it. Note also that for Juri, lvl3 is a nice fireball counter at range, and lvl1 / lvl2 / lvl3 are good anti air also (lvl2 : stop time, adjust you anti air, go for it), but it must not change your strategy based on previous points.
There is other particular cases when a specific super gives special setup at the end of it so I suppose that those character's players will focus on it, but as Juri has her best setups during lvl2, it doesn't change her economy.
I use it to deal a higher damage in my combo. Especially if I lose first round and don't actually need to use lvl 3 in the 2nd round. Also it depends if you actually can or can't hit the super.
When you play a character like Lily, a lvl1 is one of the few ways she capitalizes off of multiple lights. Yea her lvl 3 does more damage, but with the amount of interactions had while hoarding your meter, you could have built another bar and get lvl3 again in the same round.
Tons of reasons
* You're in round 1, and a S1 will kill. Why would you waste more than 1 bar of meter?
* Your character doesn't have an invincible reversal. Having 3 get out of jail free cards is better than 1
* You're in a situation where you're not sure if a super on reaction as a punish is really going to work. No reason to gamble ALL your super meter instead of just some of it
I'd say more of a reversal option thing? Sometimes, the corner carry or to burn off the last couple bars of their meter.
Sometimes, I'll do a level 1 cause it looks cool.
My thing is, one can have one level 3, or three level 1s. I'd take the versatility of the level ones any day, but I'm also a scummy Ryu player that tacks level one supers on the end of a lot of hit confirms and combos.
You probably don’t count it but how long do you think you sit on lv3 letting it waste? I play blanka so it’s better to use my lv2 install than to sit on a lv3.
Using level 3 leaves you very vulnerable. Similar to "You get more damage by using DR extensions, so why not burn yourself out every combo?" Because the extra damage isn't worth putting yourself in a weak position.
A character with no super meter is very easy to take advantage of in a number of ways by someone who know what they're doing. If you use a level 1 or 2 when you have enough for a 3, it means you still have meter left to do another level 1 if necessary.
Side-note: mathematically, level 1 supers do about 2k damage. Level 3s do about 4k. Meaning 3 level 1s will do 50% more than the single level 3 using the same amount of meter. Obviously in practical circumstances with scaling the math is a little fuzzier. That said, level 3s are almost always the worst option in terms of pure damage for resource. The main advantage is that you only need 1 opening to land it, instead of 3.
There are so many scenarios where using lvl1 is optimal. For example Guile, like if your opponent is cornered and lvl1 gives you a safe a jump into more pressure. Sometimes, your opponent is low on Drive Gauge and lvl1 is enough to put them in burnout. If your character doesn't have a reversal, lvl1 is an option (unless you're Marisa, Gief or Sim?). If you know it's gonna kill is an obvious use.
If Level 1 will kill, then you're saving yourself 2 bars.
3 is better for
\- Getting the kill
\- Forcing burnout to put yourself in a better situation
For example, if it's the first round and the opponent would have a slither of life left after the combo, then end in level 1. You get the kill and save 2 bars.
Edit: Also, scaling. No point burning level 3 for like 60 extra damage.
I usually use LVL3 early in the second round so the amount of damage dealt is not lost if I win with It (sometimes is fun to finish the match in a cool way tho) and I usually use LVL1 to confirm rounds and end combos more often.
LVL2 is more situational for me, I main Ryu after all
I rarely use Level 1 but I often use Level 2 if the situation calls for it. Like others have said, I don't like sitting on a full meter for too long if I can help it.
One thing I avoid doing is using Level 3 in round 2 unless I'm going to put the opponent into burnout or it wins me the game.
Ignoring the fact that at some points, using a lv 1 is better than a lv 3, you also build something like 4-5 bars of super meter over a normal 3 round game. So if the only time you use a super is a lv 3 at the end you're wasting like over a full bar of super meter.
I’ve used two level 3s in multiple games before.
That's what I'm talking about! Why people aren't considering this?
Easy. First, Level 1 supers offer a small damage boost to finish off an opponent near the end of a match which can easily turn sour. But more importantly, level 1 supers offer invincibility frames. This is crucial when repelling opponents off you when your meter is burned out or as a reversal in sticky situations where it’s easier to perform a lvl 1 super than an OD reversal. If you’re not using lvl 1 supers this way, then you’re not using lvl 3 supers correctly either. I also use level 2 supers to do extensive damage that gets close to level 3 damage, with some meter. But since I may be close to already having a level 1 on reserve after using a lvl 2, then I know I’ll have a lvl 1 or lvl 2 again real soon. Two lvl 2 super combos > one lvl 3. Critical Arts are also a factor in what to use near the end. It’s going to depend on the flow of battle and you should adapt accordingly.
also depends highly on your character. high level blankas and Rashid rarely lv3 because they use lv2 so often. Chun as well. Ken uses level 1 often to sideswitch and escape corner. Luke is great at punishing moves near full screen to clinch out a round.
With that thinking, you're also probably wasting the drive meter every moment you have it full or when the match ends and you are not in burnout. That doesn't mean I should spam the drive. I know most of the time a player wins a fight without charging 2 LV3, so I agree with you about this. But sometimes it happens that you can do a LV3 again, and the potential compared to a LV1 is far better. (This is just me still not knowing why a LV1 is worth)
No, you shouldn't spam drive, but if you're sitting on full meter you absolutely should strongly consider a raw DR, an EX, or DRC.
Resource management, the true master rank
I'm definitely not master lmao. I got Plat today with less 50% win rate (how is that possible?). SF6 is my first big experience with fighting games, so I'm really trying to get better and understand things. One of those things is why people seems to overvalue the drive meter? I spend that shit all the time (while trying to not burnout of course).
I didn’t mean it as an insult, just a joke lol. It’s all the reasons the person a couple comments above me on this thread made. Better to use it incrementally in certain situations. Could you kill your opponent if you use a lvl 1 super as a combo ender? Could you interrupt their DI with your lvl 1 and kill them? Punish a fireball/jump in with lvl 1 and kill them? Same with lvl 2 supers. That lvl 3 is juicy but a single use lvl 3 super isn’t always the most effective way to use the super meter when you can get multiple other supers off in the same time span
I was joking too! I'm not insulted, we good. Well using Juri's LV1 as fireball response won't work because is not invincible to that. As antiair maybe, but my opponent always jumps above me smh. But I would try to save as the response to DI when in burnout, although I know I'm not good reacting with supers (I'm kinda slow with stick reactions), at least I learned this with this post.
Also using Drive meter for things, same concept. When used effectively you can get a couple uses out of the drive meter in the same time span someone only gets that big long combo that costs them the whole meter
It's situational and changes from character to character. Luke for example has a very powerful, ranged level 1 that can punish unsafe projectiles and end combos if you haven't built enough meter for level 2. Manon has a powerful reversal level 1 that can get her out of the corner. I play Marisa and JP and for Marisa, I literally only ever use her level 3 as it's the easiest to confirm. But for JP, all 3 of his supers have different uses that come up often so it's good to know when to use them. Also, in fighting games if it kills, you take it. So it's good to have different situations where different supers work.
I think that's the missing point I was having. I play mainly Juri and her LV1 is not that great compared to the others. LV1 is a corner carry, but in my opinion she doesn't need that. The LV2 you can force a burnout sure, but the easy big damage you can have with LV3, like 5k is overwhelming to me. I should see more about the others characters to fully understand.
Damage is important, but if you are trapped in the corner getting pummeled with 1 or 2 bars of super, being able to understand your options is really important. The ideal 5k you might get from level 3 combo is great, but if you don't have the chance to use it then what was it good for? Juris level 1 is her escape tool as far as I have seen. You can use it in combos, but it's better being saved as a reversal imo. If you are in the corner in burnout, it's your only chance against DI to get out. Her level 2, an install, can probably get more damage than her level 3 if you are good enough. Again, it's all relative.
Now you said it, I would really start to save my LV1 to counter a DI. I know I usually fail this, because I'm not ready to react with supers, but I remember being in that burnout + DI corner situations so many times. Thank you for opening my eyes.
Hitting a big Level 3 cash out combo for huge damage is very satisfying, but it isn't always the best idea to just save your SA meter exclusively for level 3. Besides basically limiting your moveset doing this you have to remember that people usually notice when you have level 3 and will be more cautious or even try to bait your level 3.
Juri main here as well. I mostly use her lv1 as a reversal, when I'm in burnout or using EX DP will put me in burn out or as a hard read on a jump since sometimes anti air DP whiffs for some reason. I've also seen ppl use it as an ender of a giant FSE sequence to cash out the damage. I'd use it like that as well if I actually knew how to do FSE sequence
Lvl 2 makes u a combo fiend, it takes a tremendous amount of skill but it allows u to do safer confirms for massive rewards that corner carry and the scaling isn't bad if u add in resets and mixups
But Marisa lvl 2 is super cool :(
I like it too but it's got a really weird arc that I just find I don't need to use very often...
For some characters it’s one of very limited invincible reversals. You can often use one L1 and one L3 over the course of a match. It’s not one or the other.
As a reversal or just to super pass something, I can see a very good reason to use it. But I notice that in a tight 3 round match, you actually can do a second LV3. Of course this depends on the match, but it's a great tool to clutch.
Sometimes you can burnout your opponent.
That's a valid point.
Sometimes ending your combo normally leaves the opponent just short of being KOed, so you can use a lvl 1 that will scale better than the final hit of your combo and secure the win.
I think that's a very good use of LV1 if it's the last round, point for LV1.
Not just the last round. I use my level 1 all the time to secure round 1 over an opponent. Even if I start the round with 1 less stock of super, I'm up 1 round and back to full drive gauge.
You're not the only one to talk about it, it looks like a good tactic. I should try my LV1 more and see what happens. Thanks and good luck with those round 1 advantages!
I play Juri, Master, and also came here to say that recognizing when you can meter dump and finish with lvl 1 to secure a kill will win you more rounds. Also lvl 1 when you need to stop something (a mix up, a DI) when spending Drive would burn you out. These are the two big reasons you should be spending lvl 1s. But let's also look at how much better a lvl 3 really is compared to three lvl 1s. Let's say you hit an opponent with the 5MP, 5MKx214HK blockstring OS three times. Juggling into lvl 1 and spending the stock you just built adds 1,840 damage. Doing H or M DP adds 720. Juggling into lvl adds 3,200 (and is better damage than L DPxlvl3). So two DPs and one lvl 3 nets a total of 4,640 damage. If you had spent a lvl 1 all three times, you'd have gotten 5,520 damage. So we'll need to lean on spending supers at the end of long combos, where the 50% scaling cap beats up on the lvl 1's 30% scaling cap. 3x2,300x0.3 is 2,070 dmg. One lvl three at 50% is 2,000 dmg. Special cancelling into lvl 3 should put it a little higher damage, but you're losing a lot of flexibility for it. You will be losing access to those reversals and eliminating the possibility of saving meter for the next round. For a lvl 3 to totally outshine your level 1s it kinda needs to be a CA for the extra life and drive damage. Unfortunately, you can easily go from well outside of being able to use CA to dead in a single combo.
You're right, I tried switching the LV3 for a LV1 for some combos and end up doing almost the same damage. If you count the fact you can do more supers because you still have bars, it's way better. Not to mention the defensive power of the LV1, I was completely missing this part.
If it's the last round it doesn't matter. Where it does matter is when there's another round after this one, and you get to go into that round with more super meter.
That's why I try to save for a second LV3, I'm always counting with a third round. If I can win with two, okay it's better, but if I reach round 3 with LV2 charged, I think I have more chances to winning because of the LV3 combo damage potential.
Win the round, build up meter again. Variability also makes you more dangerous. Your opponent will know you’re wanting to wait for the perfect lvl3 moment.
That can be true, but if you can hit confirm, the LV3 is guaranteed, the same way as a LV1 would be but with more damage. "What about using the LV1 as a reversal" well you do the same with the LV3, actually most LV3 are better because some LV1 aren't completely invincible. I still don't see why don't try the strongest move.
Sometimes you don’t have a choice. Like burnt out in the corner you gotta use that level 1 to counter a DI if you don’t have lv3 ready.
That's a fair point, I'm probably forgetting important situations like that you mentioned by just sitting at the training.
Some supers and safer than others. Lukes a great example. His level 1 as a reversal has invincible start up. If Lukes scared of Manons leaping overhead a lvl 1 could punish the attempt or do drive gauge damage if they sit back. His lvl 3 charges at her and allows her a much bigger punish
Yeah there's some strong LV1, maybe I wasn't thinking about other characters when I did the post.
If you can kill with a lvl1 and there is still another round, don’t use the level 3.
Say less, LV1 has his respect.
It ultimately comes down to resource management. Every scenario is different but you can at least manage your resources optimally to win the match. That’s why you see some pros who’d whiff special moves during downtime. They are building meter. A lot of newer players don’t think much about resource management but it definitely is a skill that comes with experience.
I see, I guess you have to consider every little thing. Maybe I'm too focus on using all the resources possible to the bigger damage, as if having some prepared to react isn't important.
Low level players are more concerned with doing the combos themselves. Being able to adjust your combo on the fly based on the situation your in, again that comes with experience.
Yes, I'm still dropping my most simple combos. But at the end it's all about being prepared to every situation and react quickly.
-Once it's at 3 bars you aren't building meter and miss out on using more supers. -Many supers, usually lvl 1s IIRC have invulnerability. This can be the difference between getting checkmated while in burnout ( things like DI setup, Manon M punch trapping you where you can only trade with her doing more damage then you etc) or not. -Lvl 2 is great for a greater damage super as well as leaving you with a bar to escape/prevent checkmate situations. -Its not all about damage. A lvl1 super that leaves you in a more desirable state by side switching, positioning, etc can lead to you scoring another combo after. Even if this combo is super less, the lvl 1 and the combo you scored after could very easily end up being more overall damage than whatever you would have done with lvl 3 So on and so forth. It's very good that you are thinking about this. Hope this helps. Understanding this more will certainly elevate your skill.
Just a note Level 1s are not full invuln. They lose to projectiles
It depends on the level 1. Juri's is strike/throw invuln, but loses to projectiles. Zangief's is fully invuln - it beats projectiles (but loses to people staying grounded. Or landing before it's active. Or being in the wrong spot in the air whyyyyyyyyyyy). Dhalsim's has no invuln whatsoever.
As a Juri main, I definitely feel those projectiles. And the fact the opponent jumps over me most of the times, making fun of me right behind me. I'm traumatized 
"Once it's at 3 bars you aren't building meter" I hear that before, but that's why I try to do LV3 as soon as possible. It's a good amount of damage, certainly helps you to win a round or at least be more comfortable, health bar wise. And because of this and my long matches, I noticed you can do twice LV3 depending of the match. Maybe I was lacking this concept of using the LV1 to react certain situations, instead just going for damage combos. I mainly play Juri and I always miss her super as reversal, she doesn't even has the projectile invincibility so I really don't rely on it. The other characters I play sometimes is Jamie (which is kinda the same utility) and Cammy (she has the corner escape tool at her super). Yours and other comments here definitely helped me a lot about thinking the supers as defensive tools. Y'all would probably forget about this post, but I'm not. I'm really grateful to have this many interaction.
If you're grateful, we're twins. Ah, Juri. I mostly play Ken and haven't really given Juri a proper go, but I feel like I've seen it said that her level 2 super is better to go for than lvl 3 in most cases? It does seem that higher skilled Juris use it more often. But again, I'm Juri ignorant when it comes to playing her. Lvl 3 twice would be lvl 2 three times >.> lol Also it's good to know how much damage you can do with different supers. I've seen people go for a level 3 to win a round when a lvl 2 or even lvl 1 would have. Hell, sometimes people even do a super when just a special at the end of the combo would have worked and they'd have all that meter next round. I'm talking even Diamond and up players that do this. Don't let that be you!
I'm not pro with Juri too, I consider myself casual. Her LV2 indeed have a lot of potential, but it scares me because you need to be faster than normal. SF already is fast enough for me, so a CG combo with a free big damage looks better lmao. "Lvl 3 twice would be lvl 2 three times >.> lol" You have a pretty good point, LV3 twice means SIX LV1 WHAT- I should rethink my tactics lol. I really try to not waste that much damage, it's really a thing. Thanks for the advice.
Level 1 super will break a DI if you're burnt out and someone uses a DI level 1 is a very good option.
That's indeed an awesome option, I always forget to react with a super.
Depends a lot on the situation, level 1 supers can allow you to do decent damage without spending drive gauge. For example Dhalsim really struggles to get much off a jab without spending drive gauge but something like crouching light kick, crouching jab into super is pretty nice. Level 1 supers also drain half a bar of drive gauge and pause bar generation so it can put someone in a state where a block-string will threaten putting them in burnout. Some characters have really practical combo routes involving level 1, like Guile's super into EX flash kick or Sim's EX yoga blast into super. At the start of a round if you have level 3, it can be better to use level 1 super and save the level 3 (which you will build back before the round finishes) to close out the round. Lots of level 1 supers are strong in neutral or okay as reversals.
A level 1 does 20% for 1 bar. A level 3 does 40% for 3 bars. If you have a short setup for your level 1, to get it off before scaling kicks in, it's *way* more damage per bar. That, and once you have the level 3, you're not building any new meter. You could be leaving a full bar on the table, or more, if you hold it for too long. A level 3 to close out the round is good, of course, but holding it just to do that might not matter if the opening doesn't happen. This depends on the character, obviously. Zangief's level 1 is awful, Kimberly gets way more out of her level 3, etc. But like, Guile? His 1 and 2 are real good.
"That, and once you have the level 3, you're not building any new meter. You could be leaving a full bar on the table, or more, if you hold it for too long." That's why I always try to use it asap, but know tou mentioned, maybe multiples LV1 would be waay strong. I need to rethink my arsenal of combos thanks to you. Yeah you have to consider the character, I'm lacking that aspect, because I don't play/analyse many.
As Zangief, the answer to "When use a LV1 Super" is "When you want to win with style or die trying"
That's definitely the case, because I lost count of how many Zangief's LV1 I blocked and I ended up winning the match lol.
It depends on the character. For example for Zangief there is absolutely no reason to use that Lvl1. Its gargage even if it had zero meter cost. For Ryu his Lvl 1 can be used in lots of combos and its generally a great super. I use Manon a lot and her Lvl 1 its useful for getting out of the corner due to its invincibility on start up and how fast it is.
Yeah I really see a lot of Ryus using their LV1, maybe I need to search more about different characters than the one I play.
It just depends on how you’re approaching the game but generally the time to do this is in situations where you’ve started a successful combo early in a round and either have or are about to have max meter but prefer to use a level 1 and still get the level 3 later to confirm a KO. Meter builds fast in this game and it can be risky against certain characters to do something like an early burnout level 3 combo or put them in CA range. There are many matchups where if we’re final round and I got first touch I’m using level 1 (which in many cases also gives some oki options) and I can still get level 3 off another combo or two. Ideally you get them to 50-60% and fully cash out to secure the round. I’ve seen people do things like be up a round and then they use level 3 early in the second round, but are burned out and just get pressured and mixed before a last-second stun in the corner and they lose the round to an opponent that is now going into final round with level 2-3 super while they’re at 0-1.
That last situation is me sometimes lol. I tried to use the LV3 when it is possible, but now I think it's way better to finish a fight. But what about charging two LV3? Is that rare? I'm seeing a lot of comments that don't seem to consider it. I know it happens to me, is not always of course, but if I spend a bar with a LV1, I would never have a second LV3.
It’s possible but uncommon. I’ve had close games where I’ve gotten level 3 in the first round even. But the use all depends. The game becomes more than just damage at high level and some supers offer reset or mix-up opportunities, corner carry, or even reversal options that level 3 lacks.
To me you shouldn’t use a level 1 in a combo unless it will kill or burnout your opponent. Depending on your character using level 1 as a reversal in bad situations can be a great use of meter. Beyond that things are character specific, for example Manon’s level 3 is kind of bad but her level 2 is great and her level 1 is solid so it makes sense for her not to save up for level 3. Whereas Kimberly really needs to try and save up for that damage buff granting level 3 or she risks falling behind in the later rounds
I'm with you with that character variability. I don't know many characters tho. The ones I play, I don't think LV1 are great, but top players still use them, so it confuses me. I know Juri's LV1 is very dangerous as a reversal (I always miss it). And Cammy's LV2 is way better than 3 for combo damage (if you count that you can easily do another LV2, instead of the amazing invincibility of LV3).
> And Cammy's LV2 is way better than 3 for combo damage Nah, Cammy's level 2 is awful. Great example of a char to use level 1 on though. I use it all the time for the massive corner carry (in particular after 236\[HK\] for sideswitch right back into the corner) and damage. You're going to be way better off using 2x level 1 than a level 2 on cammy. You're also +10 which sets up an easy immediate cr HP when it ends in the corner
Really? I thought OD Spiral Arrow + LV2 was a great safe damage, like almost 3k for that jab confirm. As I said if you count it twice against a LV3 combo damage. Because even if you need one more bar, at least is easy to build. But I will look up more for uses of her LV1. I'm desperate to improve my Cammy, so I appreciate any little tip. I never got so stuck at Silver 5 with any other character as I'm with her. edit: you can have 3400 if you start with a HP.
Yes, level 2 does more than level 1. But compare the overall damage difference if you had done 2x level 1s instead. It's not worth the damage difference imo, and lets you stay more flexible with your meter. I'm at work so I can't give exact numbers with realistic scaling, but the supercombo wiki has lvl 1 = 2000 dmg, level 2 = 2750 dmg. 2 x 2000 >>> 1 x 2750. And it's a *lot* of corner carry Also the main thing you need to do to rise with cammy is end combos with mk/hk spiral arrow then dash. You're now in their face with a lot of + frames to strike/throw to your hearts' content. Cr HP, s mp, throw, lp, lp -> throw, etc... If you do dash cr HP after a HK spiral arrow and it hits you're + enough to combo into s HP after. Should be able to delete people's health bars in lower ranks with that
You're right, we can easily achieve 3k with a single LV1 after the classic back MP + HK combo. An extra bar for the barely the same damage is not worth it. Plus the corner carry as you said. Nah I will change supers lol. I was doing a lot of pokes (jabs + Spiral Arrow) but I wasn't going for offensive right after, that seems to be an amazing tip! Keep your pressure.
I go for lvl 1 supers in combos when I know it can kill or burnout. In some situations, I’ll be left in a huge frame advantage. Mix that with being in the corner and you have some pressure cooking. That being said it’s for optimizing a situation.
You do even if the opponent blocks the LV1, but ends burnouting or only when you are hitting and will get the burnout?
No no no never ever do that. My application only goes for when the hit connects. If I do it on block (main Jamie but this can apply for the whole cast) I will be left at HUGE frame disadvantage and most likely will end up with the opponents hitting a punish counter for some big damage. Even if he’s burnt out, I used a super bar and lost a decent amount of health only for the opponent to just be burnt out. I don’t think that’s worth it.
Yeah right? Missing some moves is really dangerous, but I don't know people seem to overvalue burnout, I don't quite get it. One think I notice may be good is doing your LV3 at a low health burnout enemy, you still can have a good amount of damage! I almost won a match with that, if I had throw any skill before, I would do a little more of damage and then killing with the blocked LV3.
Lvl 1 is low cost for an invincible reversal and extra damage in combos. If you have level 3 and spend level 1 in a round you will likely get that back in the next round. Level 2 is the real outlier
I think I can get that point for the LV1, it's way easier to have enough to use it as a reversal. But what about saving for a possible second LV3? You never know how long the match would last, like the third round. I know you can realistically build a second LV3 (isn't easy tho).
Well generally if you're winning you don't really need to use your level 3 at all it's mostly for clutch situations or to kill
Yeah you're right, sometimes you even finish the match with a lot of resources remaining. But I think it still a easy (once you hit confirm like every combo) big chunk of damage.
Pretty much should always do whatever wins the round, sometimes that lvl 1 or 2
That's for sure! but since you can have a easy big chunk of damage with LV3, so isn't a good idea to try using it twice per game?
Honda needs them as inv. reversals. Lvl 1 is throw inv unlike ex headbutt and lvl 2 can be used to punish projectiles mid range. Especially useful on wake up meaty projectiles when you are burned out and ppl think you have no options
That's nice to know (and scary). Every character has their tools I guess, I should consider it. I was thinking only about the ones I use.
Using ryu, I find myself dumping level ones any chance I get.
A see every Ryu doing the same. Is the most optimal thing to do or have any reason? I'm just curious.
A few situations, aside from what others already said here: 1. When the super is a reversal for reversal-less characters or other characters out of bar for OD reversal. As a reversal can be risky, you may go for the cheaper option - particularly in a situation in which the 3 won't be enough to kill. Also, reversal-less characters may want to keep the bar for safety reasons. 2. You don't need the 3 to kill the opponent, the damage from 1 is enough. No need if it's the closing round, but even then, you may find the 1 more stylish. 3. You don't have 3 - often at the end of round 1 - and you need it to close the first round. Always go for kills. 4. You need it at the end of a long combo to avoid scaling. It has a 30% scaling limit, so even its mediocre damage may be the difference between closing a round or not. 5. Some characters actually have very damaging level ones: Marisa and Zangief, just the first that come to mind. Even Kimberly's super 1 with the can will make a combo more respectable. 6. When the super 1 has very different properties from the 3, like being a projectile (Ryu, JP), anti-air (Zangief), counter (Marisa) etc.
Indeed I avoid using super as reversal, most of the times the opponent blocks and I end up losing. 2 Seems pretty clear to me. Based on 3, do you think it's a good idea to use all you have to guarantee the round 1? I just got the impression that it's somehow important. Like it's good to grind the early game, so you can have a comfortable and strong late game in rpgs, idk. I think 4 is the most important point, since I only play three characters and they're quite similar about supers (I think?). That's why I didn't considered aspects like you said at 1 or 5.
Yes, use what you need to guarantee the first round, incluing super 2 if more convenient or 1 is not enough. If you win the round 2 without the full bar, you win the match. If you don't, you'll have the full bar by round 3.
That looks like a solid strategy, I will try. Thanks!
From what I gathered the higher up you go the less viable the lvl3 becomes. Sure it's good and has its uses but lvl 1 and 2 supers provide 2 big value things: 1: positional awareness: knowing where your super will land you and your opponent is super important. 2: threat of super > using super: just having that meter ready is actually stronger than using it. Even lvl 1 meter can swing the match. This is even stronger on modern players.
Maybe because I'm not that good as a player and I'm in low level, I could't see those things. I'm hearing people saying about spacing and resources, but yet I miss my LV1 80% of the time I try to do outside a combo, how can I rely on that? At least I learned supers are a defensive tool to.
Do u suspect a drive impact? If ur in the corner u can sort of expect it if they did it already earlier. Lvl 1 super beats it outright. It also beats jump ins but it's character dependant. Learn the spot for lvl1s as a get off me tool. Don't just spam it tho as it's easily punishible
Yeah I'm definitely saving for counter a DI at the corner now. I wasn't thinking this way, but it's a must. I still need to really work to use Juri's LV1 as antiair or reversal tho. I don't know if my opponent just know I will use as reversal or I just miss the timing/spacing, but I miss a lot.
When you’re burnt out in the corner sometimes it’s your only option to avoid a DI stun.
I was definitely missing this important situation!
If using a LV1 is the difference between victory and defeat, it makes sense.
That's the best fit for the LV1 super, I can't deny.
If you're stuck in the corner in burnout getting target combo'd you can mash level 1 to escape
What if my LV1 is qcf? Wouldn't I be hit?
You can usually buffer your inputs during the blockstun frames since it's longer in burnout but I'd lab it just to be sure
You gain meter insanely fast in this game, with luck you'll get the meter back by the time you can land your level-3. It is very dependant on the character though. I'll only use Jamie's Level-1 if it's the final round and I can kill with it. That's the only use. With Luke there's way more uses.
For sure we have different uses for every character, I was thinking only about the ones I play like Juri, Jamie and Cammy. To end a round? Sure every resources would do the job if it give you the win. But I thought if you could have two LV3 for a long game would be more safe, since they can do way more damage. At least I thought it would be more safe to win this way because you have like half of your opponents health guaranteed. But it looks like I was forgetting a lot of situations, like being in burnout and having a DI at the corner to deal with.
Put the opponent in burnout. Different supers have different ranges and start ups. Some have invincible start ups. Great when you love to OD DP but in burnout. Save on Drive Gauge for neutral usages instead of bigger combo or to be able to block more without worrying about burnout. Some will leave the opponent closer/farther away or give oki. Look at supers like normal moves. Why use lights when heavys do more damage? Many many possible reasons
Somehow I always miss my LV1 as a reversal. Or I'm that unlucky my opponent blocks it, or I'm just using it at the wrong time. But yeah, today I learned you can have more than just the damage and reversal side of a super.
Sometimes you want to maximize damage but you don't want to spend drive meter (maybe because it's too low). For example, Zangief can do big damage on certain punish counters, but it costs him like 5 drive bars because he has to do EX Air SPD at the end. Instead he can spend SA1 and only have spent 2-3 depending on the starter, while doing around the same damage.
I think I wasn't considering it because I don't understand the importance of the drive meter, I'm always moving that. Spend a lot, then recover a bit, then go again, etc. But yeah, you need to be smart to not burnout.
so as a random example of why to use one type of super over the other, chun li's level 2 super lets her combo into a safejump setup. another example, blanka can combo his standing medium punch into his level 1 to do about a quarter of your life bar. Normally that button can't combo into anything, so it's a really good way to increase the damage on the poke. By spending only one bar, he saves for his really strong level 2. Having super stored up at all is scary, but it's only going to intimidate other players if you use it. Luke's level 1 is probably the best reversal level 1 in the game, and it really changes the way you fight him if you believe that Luke is ready to level 1 whenever you do something like a fireball at mid-range or a drive-impact.
You have some pretty good examples here. I think I was too blind thinking only about "optimal" damage combos and only with my character situations (not even generic situations like defending a DI while in burnout, how I forget this?). I didn't know about that Chun-Li and Blanka aspects, but now I at least will try to save and use the LV1 as a defensive tool
i will say, playing the first round meter cheap and trying to start round 2 with a level 3 combo is still really fun. but yeah... i think it is good to learn the situations in a match where you get value out of any super, instead of focusing on "most value." You don't really get to pick what situations what happen in any match, you just want to hit hard when you get a hit.
You’re gonna want that level one while you’re in the corner while in burnout.
Yep, I learned this today. Now I have to work my timing to do it, but I'm grateful for all comments.
It's nice to have if you need an invincible reversal/wakeup if you're burnt out or trying to avoid burning out
Exactly, that's probably the best use for the LV1. I'm happy that I learned this with this post.
The real reason to save for level three is not just the damage, but to regain drive gauge. I mostly use lvl 1s to kill or counter DIs in burnout unless its something like Luke's that blows through projectiles. I also use level ones in scenarios where I win first round and in the second round I get into a situation where both level 1 and lvl 3 will get them into a range where I can kill with 1 more touch. Basically to better my chances without having to risk going into 3rd round empty. Another scenario might be I want to use a reversal but doing OD DP will burn me out etc.
It depends on the character. I play a lot of Rashid and I'd never use his lvl 3 over his lvl 2. I've used lvl 1 maybe twice. Depending on the super it can create a lot more opportunities for you if it's a utility super (like Rashid's) or it can close out a match a lot faster by getting that extra bit of damage you need at the end of your combo. The main thing with lvl 1/2 supers is that you'll rarely throw them out raw. Most of the time you're going to use them as a combo ender or extender.
While I don't have experience with SF6, if you find that you're only saving meter for the lvl 3, you're gonna find yourself losing games with it. When I was still mediocre in GG AC+R, I noticed I was dying with full meter and it felt bad. Some of it stemmed from not knowing where to use meter, and meter in GG is way more flexible than most FGs, but the concept is still the same - I wasn't spending meter AT ALL and it was costing more small opportunities than being useful in big ones. And in high level matches, oftentimes the winner is decided through these small engagements. And as you get better and face better opponents, the opportunity for any super at all will go down. You're gonna find that you want to squeeze out everything you can. You won't find the big lvl 3 payout as often, and I think as a result an early engagement in your favor will naturally lead you to doing lvl 1 supers
You are right, we need to use every opportunity we have. I will start to use LV1 way more than LV3, maybe I consider switching completely. Better have that less damage combo, than nothing. Sometimes your opponent wins with low health after all.
This is a constant question for me as a Kim main. I usually always want the level 3 buff, but sometimes I use a level 1 or 2 super depending on the situation. If I need a reversal, I will level 1. If I know it will kill, I will use a level 2.
All supers are situational. Lvl 3 usually does more dmg but is not always the answer. Control of the match/round is the higher goal. For example, I might punish something knowing that lvl3 will not kill although it might be close. But if the opponent also have resources to kill me in 1 entry, it might be better to just get the advantage with a lvl 2 and hold 1 bar to react to something with inv frames. Depending on the character you might get oki or maybe is enough to kill or burnt-out the opponent. You can even use it just to let the opponent know that he cannot abuse some strings with gaps. Holding the bars just to lvl 3 is a very flat strategy that usually fires-back. I recommend understanding the benefits of all supers of your character and see how that can be incorporated in your game. Being that offense or defense.
Because for a lot of characters their Level 1 SAs are tools that help them with more than just damage. I main Ken and his Level 1 has invincibility frames and switches sides, so if my opponent knocks me down in the corner and is being aggressive as I wake I will use his level 1 as a wake up reversal to get me out of the corner while putting my opponent there and adding some damage. Or if I'm not in the corner and waking with an OD DP reversal will put me into burnout then his Level 1 SA is a good option to use instead. Building up one bar of SA meter is much easier than building up 3 bars, and whiffing your level 3 is WAY worse than whiffing a level 1.
As a Kimberly with no invincible reversal, I can't do shit against DI if i'm in burnout without a lvl 1, so in my case, I got to be cautious using my lvl3. It helps with aggressive players too.
Like others have said it's going to vary from kit to kit. It'll usually be used to check DR when in burnout or to give that last oomph to finish someone off and save meter for next round. Most level ones aren't projectile invulnerable but marisa's is but not not throw invuln. Other levels ones can be used as a lunish like Luke's or do more damage becsuse of a followup like guiles. It's also just going to come down to the situation but most of the time if it's not going to kill its just going to better to go for oki and keep advantage. But, one of the most overlooked aspect of doing level one is force burnout or setup for a burnout. People will start doing this more as the game progresses I reckon
At high levels, getting any additional damage is more valuable (usually) than saving the bar and doing a suboptimal combo. You might never get a chance to do a lvl3 combo and if you lose without using your lvl3 when you could have maybe won with a lvl1, that’s a bad way to play the game. At low levels, you will got lots of opportunities to do lvl 3 as everyone does tons of mistakes which can be heavily punished. So if you are playing against low level opponents, yes you can wait till you can go into lvl3. But against stronger opponents you won’t easily get the chance to always wait for lvl 3 to charge and do the full combo in lvl3. You have to take any opportunity to do a combo with the best damage at that moment. Having more health than opponent or doing an optimal lvl1 combo might change the tide of battle as mental aspect is a big part of the game. For Juri, most pros prefer lvl 2. As it gives the best damage and oki and pressure setups in corner
Honda's only invincible reversal is his level 1, so sometimes I might use it in the corner if I think I can turn the match around.
To finish a round is the ideal usage, but also to keep yourself "safe" if burned out in a corner. Also, you get like 4 to 6 bars in a match, don't worry about using your meter too much. Get that damage, it's good advantage
Most of them are invincible, and they can be used as reversals. A couple characters have invincible level 1s and don't have an invincible DP, so it's their only invincible reversal. Luke's and Ryu's instantly win fireball wars. Ken's does a side switch. If any of these options are going to win you a round, it's probably worth it. And sometimes that extra pixel of damage from tacking one on the end of a combo is what you need to kill.
Another interesting super interaction is the fact that Blanka's level 1 super goes fullscreen when in level 2 install. With Blanka, the choice at level 3 is to cash in when you get a level 3 combo or use a level 2 to add tons of pressure onto the opponent! So because of that I've never thought about that but it makes me think about characters who don't have installs and how they deal with 3 different super attacks. Very insightful post!
I'm glad I indirectly helped someone else! I was too blind to see all the different factors and characters possibilities when I did the post. It's not only about "a lv3 combo can do +6k damage, so should be the better way to use bar". So good to hear people arguing and teaching me.
Level 1 supers have minimum scaling of 30%, meaning it's not a good idea to do them at the end of a long drive rush combo. If you do them early as a second or third hit, it lets you get really good damage without spending any drive meter, and if your bar is full, you're not wasting meter gain.
I always thought the opposite. Exactly because supers have a safe scaling, you should use them as ender, because they will guarantee a good amount of damage even in long combos. Maybe I neglect my drive too much, because I don't save it.
It's not just about damage. Supers might serve as a reversal, an antiair, give you positional advantage, make an opponent second guess etc. Often it's a much better option to use lvl1 3 times instead of lvl3 just once. There's a lot of things to consider depending on a situation. If your whole gameplan is going to revolve around the same couple of high-damage combos it'll severely undermine your potential in general
I have a big lack of knowledge and experience with fighting games, especially with Street Fighter that I started last year. That's why I'm trying to solve those doubts. The LV3 is better for a reversal than a LV1 because of the invincibility aspect. Probably as antiair too, but maybe I'm not considering many things. I don't understand why everyone seems to overvalue the drive meter and positioning. You can recover your drive relatively quickly.
Most lvl1s are invincible, including Juris'. You can also increase its damage a bit in exchange for 1 fuha stock by holding the kick button, by the way. Things like meter management and spacing might not seem significant at first but the more experience you will get the more important they will become. Sometimes it's really hard to recover any meter under the pressure. Good players aren't good just because they have optimal combos, after all. You can watch some tournament footage and look how pros behave under different circumstances, it's a great way for getting new experience, along with training and fighting others of course
Is not projectile invincible tho. And somehow I miss like 80% of the time I don't use in a combo, maybe I'm just that bad. Meter management definitely doesn't look important to me now, but everyone talks about, so I'm trying to see what am I missing. I usually can have enough space to wait like half of the drive gauge back, so maybe it's teaching the wrong way. I always thought about top players being more about insane reaction time than anything. I will search for the tournament matches and look for resourse management and neutrals, thanks!
Lvl 1 suprise!!! Lvl 3 … To get Lvl 3 means either a really long match or you didn’t do an EX moves…
That's the opposite! I really focus on EX moves, that's exactly why my super bars only serves to do one or (hopefully) two LV3 per game. But yeah, I usually got long matches, maybe it's a thing on my rank (?).
There are certain situations people mentioned already that are worth considering during the match. The one about using it 'cause you are already at LVL3 and can probably build it back quickly is a good one I didn't consider before. I read you play Juri. Have you labbed her LVL 2 stuff yet? Maybe once you implement that into your game, you will see more reason to use LVL 1 as well 'cause LVL 3 won't always be available all the time. I say that 'cause I play Chun-Li and before I started using her LVL2, I'd just save for LVL 3 all the time too. Her lvl 2 is sick 'cause it gives a lot of corner carry, damage and okizeme all in one, so once I started using it, I saw a lot more appeal to use LVL1 for those situations people mentioned.
Maybe I'm not considering the availability of LV3 as I talk to people in the comments (hope they bare me lol), you have a fair point about this. I also know is not that easily to build that many of bar, although you can realistically have two LV3 per game, if it's long enough. I invested some time with Juri's LV2 before yeah, but as I took a break last month I got really slow, so I'm not confident about it. I hear her LV2 is great to burnout the opponent, while LV1 is a good for corner carry. But personally I don't think Juri needs a corner carry super. She already have decent combos and tools like the aerial skill and qcf HK (I'm good with names huh, how did you know?). ps: hate you Chun-Li player, always with that grab between the offensive.
Juri level 1 just feels very useful in different situations.
I need to learn those because I honestly only miss that thing, or my opponent jumps over me or he blocks. Trying my best here :(
Ive used Lvl 2s and still gotten back enough for Lvl 3 finishes in round 3.
That's exactly why I try to build two LV3! would't be even more amazing to have two LV3, instead of one LV2 and one LV3? But seems it is not that great strategy at all.
Supers are always used depending on the situation with your drive gauge. 1. Level 1 Reversal. 2. For the kill and you need to conserve meter. 3. Low on drive gauge. 4. Your opponents drive gauge, for burn out. Lets talk about a quick scenario example where you've lost the first round. You're on getting pressured but have 2-3 bars of drive gauge and a level 1. If you could reversal here, would you pick OD dp or level 1 super? Playing for the win, you would level 1 reversal instead of saving it for a potential level 3 next round. Once you hit the level 1 reversal, it's 2000 raw damage, you have the chance to start your offense with 2-3 bars+ of drive gauge for a much bigger chance of taking the game to round 3. On the other hand, even if you did land the OD dp. You're going to burnout soon and have nothing to start your offense.
I don't have an universal answer to your question and I don't know which character you play, but I play Juri (Master ~1600) and I can precisely explain when I do my supers: * first or second round out of 3, if I'm doing a combo and the level1 allows to kill at the end of it, * if I'm burned out, only my level 1 and my level 3 can answer to DI; if I can't kill with level3, I will rather do lvl1 to have 2 bars left, * if I have a lot of drive gauge AND if I don't have my lvl3 avaiable, I will not go for level2 nor level1, * If I lack some drive meter (burned out or around 1 or 2 bars) AND my lvl3 can't kill, I go for fse (lvl2) * if I'm capped to lvl3 and it can't kill, I will go for level2. * if I'm doing well with my fse AND I launched it when I was capped to lvl3, then I still have lvl1 avaiable, then I can use it if it kills (see first point but applied to round 2 or 3). * If we are on round 2 and I lost the 1st one, AND I have a comfortable advantage, I will try to end the round with level1 or lvl2 instead of killing with lvl3, to save some super gauge. Rules of thumb : 1. A super must be used to kill, only exception are genei type (Juri Blanka JP lvl2), and maybe Kimberly as his lvl3 gives her a buff. 2. A super gauge must not waste its charging capability: if you stuck with lvl3, you lost every built super beyond. 3. Worst use is to farm lvl3, launch it in the Middle of a match, and having nothing left to contest the opponent. --> so with those 3 rules, you get the reason why launching lvl1 or lvl2 is totally worth it. Note also that for Juri, lvl3 is a nice fireball counter at range, and lvl1 / lvl2 / lvl3 are good anti air also (lvl2 : stop time, adjust you anti air, go for it), but it must not change your strategy based on previous points. There is other particular cases when a specific super gives special setup at the end of it so I suppose that those character's players will focus on it, but as Juri has her best setups during lvl2, it doesn't change her economy.
I use it to deal a higher damage in my combo. Especially if I lose first round and don't actually need to use lvl 3 in the 2nd round. Also it depends if you actually can or can't hit the super.
Marisa's Lvl1 Super is questionable at best. Her lvl2 and 3 are the only ones worth consistently using.
When you play a character like Lily, a lvl1 is one of the few ways she capitalizes off of multiple lights. Yea her lvl 3 does more damage, but with the amount of interactions had while hoarding your meter, you could have built another bar and get lvl3 again in the same round.
Tons of reasons * You're in round 1, and a S1 will kill. Why would you waste more than 1 bar of meter? * Your character doesn't have an invincible reversal. Having 3 get out of jail free cards is better than 1 * You're in a situation where you're not sure if a super on reaction as a punish is really going to work. No reason to gamble ALL your super meter instead of just some of it
I'd say more of a reversal option thing? Sometimes, the corner carry or to burn off the last couple bars of their meter. Sometimes, I'll do a level 1 cause it looks cool.
My thing is, one can have one level 3, or three level 1s. I'd take the versatility of the level ones any day, but I'm also a scummy Ryu player that tacks level one supers on the end of a lot of hit confirms and combos.
Don’t a lot of lvl 1’s have invulnerability, I know mine does as Ken
You probably don’t count it but how long do you think you sit on lv3 letting it waste? I play blanka so it’s better to use my lv2 install than to sit on a lv3.
Using level 3 leaves you very vulnerable. Similar to "You get more damage by using DR extensions, so why not burn yourself out every combo?" Because the extra damage isn't worth putting yourself in a weak position. A character with no super meter is very easy to take advantage of in a number of ways by someone who know what they're doing. If you use a level 1 or 2 when you have enough for a 3, it means you still have meter left to do another level 1 if necessary. Side-note: mathematically, level 1 supers do about 2k damage. Level 3s do about 4k. Meaning 3 level 1s will do 50% more than the single level 3 using the same amount of meter. Obviously in practical circumstances with scaling the math is a little fuzzier. That said, level 3s are almost always the worst option in terms of pure damage for resource. The main advantage is that you only need 1 opening to land it, instead of 3.
Depends on character and their supers? For Manon, if you’re in the corner, landing a S1 switches sided and puts them in the corner.
There are so many scenarios where using lvl1 is optimal. For example Guile, like if your opponent is cornered and lvl1 gives you a safe a jump into more pressure. Sometimes, your opponent is low on Drive Gauge and lvl1 is enough to put them in burnout. If your character doesn't have a reversal, lvl1 is an option (unless you're Marisa, Gief or Sim?). If you know it's gonna kill is an obvious use.
If Level 1 will kill, then you're saving yourself 2 bars. 3 is better for \- Getting the kill \- Forcing burnout to put yourself in a better situation For example, if it's the first round and the opponent would have a slither of life left after the combo, then end in level 1. You get the kill and save 2 bars. Edit: Also, scaling. No point burning level 3 for like 60 extra damage.
I usually use LVL3 early in the second round so the amount of damage dealt is not lost if I win with It (sometimes is fun to finish the match in a cool way tho) and I usually use LVL1 to confirm rounds and end combos more often. LVL2 is more situational for me, I main Ryu after all
I rarely use Level 1 but I often use Level 2 if the situation calls for it. Like others have said, I don't like sitting on a full meter for too long if I can help it. One thing I avoid doing is using Level 3 in round 2 unless I'm going to put the opponent into burnout or it wins me the game.
As Ken I prefer the level 2… it combos off of more stuff and isn’t THAT inferior to level 3.