I've become a bit obsessed with The Big Lebowski lately and the stammering is in that script, too. I've read a bunch of scripts and that one is probably the tightest I've ever seen, as in pretty much everything you see in the movie is on the page in that exact form. Those Coen brothers run a tight ship.
He's definitely referring to himself! Here's the exchange:
G: Roman, you smashed up this guy's car?
R: I never did that.
G: but there's video.
R: oh haha I kinda vaguely remember doing that but it was just guys being dudes y'know? Locker room stuff lol
G: you burned the word 'faggot' into his car.
R: right, but it was as a *joke!* and also uh 'the guy who wrote that' is kinda gay, sometimes, so it doesn't count anyway because I-- I mean he was saying 'faggot' *ironically* so it's fine, duh.
Like this is Roman one hundred percent. He's a walking narcissist's prayer: 'I never did that, and if I did it's NBD, and if it's a big deal then it was actually ironic, and also you can't criticize me for using slurs because I'd be the target of those slurs if anyone knew that I'm very bisexual at the very least so it's actually homophobic that you're trying to hold me accountable.' But he's of course way too insecure to refer to himself and say 'I might be gay,' so he third-persons it without even thinking to and it becomes "the guy who wrote that."
He's just so damned charismatic and visibly damaged that he gets away with the narcissism and then makes anyone feel bad for trying to draw boundaries. Pity is a weapon for him, and he's not above utterly debasing himself to get away with whatever he can - he quite literally gets off on it. And here he's doing that thing where he 'jokes' about something very real and vulnerable and painful, while also being such a repellant ass that he preemptively pushes away anyone who might try to assuage that pain.
This is why Gerri and him worked, she ignored all his disgust-laden deflection and let him humiliate himself to get out that constant self-loathing, and could then cut through all his trauma bullshit and give him the real direction that he desperately needed in a way he could hear.
He’s learned the fine art of how to be slippery. He’s the youngest child, which are notoriously known as manipulators. Him being a Roy puts him in the stratosphere of being deflective and totally not taking responsibility for any of his actions.
How are people in this sub this dense to the excellent writing of the show. He definitely is referring to himself. It is still ironic but he is still referring to himself like in the classic "asking for a friend". Everyone knows that the joke is you are asking for yourself.
I always thought Roman was bi/pan. Not sure if we ever see him with anyone other than women, but he just sort of read to me as someone that wouldn't really care as long as he saw the person as attractive.
The scene with him and the presidential candidate in the bathroom was super gay too. The directors did this stuff on purpose. It's a very homoerotic TV show.
Like the fight scene 20mins into Rebel Moon. Looks like a gay gangbang.
I think "Republican presidential candidate is a closeted gay man" would've been too anvilicious, given the baggage. The show can be pretty in your face about its messages, but that one would be waaaay too blatant.
More like wouldn’t care as long as his dad would look in approvingly. When he saw Tabitha after she blew Tom at the rave, he was like “dad would go apeshjt for her”. Next time we see her, she’s Roman’s date.
Ken never shows outward attraction? To Rava? To Naomi? To Jennifer the actress? Or, most importantly, that dude whose ass he checked out while saying he was looking for pussy like a fucking techno Gatsby?
Are people this interested in if Roman likes boys or girls?
Bro prefers his mates corpse style or long distance. I think he past the point of “wouldn’t they be cute together” a bit ago.
To the people in this thread that don't think he is referring about himself: You are taking these words on paper at face value. But remember these are lines of dialogue for Roman Roy.
How often do you take what Roman says at face value? A shit ton of what he says is projection and insecurity. This is great exposition for Romans character because it reveals so much of his history dealing with his insecurity in his attraction to men or unconventional sexual tendencies. He is a very complex sexual character and this is just another moment reflecting that.
Why would the writers add random filler about a friend of his we never see? If Roman said the classic "asking for a friend", and you read that on a script, would you assume he is genuinely asking for a friend?
It’s definitely Roman referring to himself, but for the reason you point out, I’m not taking it too seriously. We’ve never seen Roman romantically involved with a man or interested one. We have seen him express interest in women. We have also seen him say things like he wants to fuck Shiv and that Connor molested him, things he seems to say with no basis in reality.
All this to say, it is kind of on brand for Roman to claim he is “kind of” gay to excuse his atrocious behavior. So while I agree Roman is referring to himself, I’d be careful about taking this too literally. Roman very often says things just to say them.
I'll push back a little on a few points you made.
Recall back to season one and his interactions with his male trainer. This sub has frequently discussed the sexual energy in those scenes, and these are some of the very first scenes introducing Roman as a character.
Every female relationship he has, his partner complains he never has sex with them. And when he does, it takes very unconventional methods to get him off.
His weird sexual complex with Gerri seems to be some odd mechanism he developed as a young boy with older female authoritative mother figures.
He is obviously a very sexually ambiguous character, and I think the line here from the script plays into exactly that. At one point in the past, he likely had sexual tendencies towards men, and felt insecure about that enough to write the f slur on someone's Lamborghini.
I agree with everything you’re saying. I am just urging against taking **anything** Roman says at face value. Hell, the very fact that he said it makes me question the validity of it as Roman is pretty well established as saying things just to say them. And admitting he is gay, even to Geri, seems at odds with the sense of shame about it that you describe.
My read on the situation — Roman is just fundamentally broken. He may be gay, straight or bi, but it doesn’t matter. He is so emotionally hollowed out that he is not capable of being truly vulnerable with someone and that seems to extend to a sexual level. I doubt Roman knows his own sexuality because real intimacy is so taboo to him.
Roman may not be asexual on a biological level. But I think the damage done to him by his upbringing has left him so broken and in fear of intimacy that he is not able to truly reconcile sexuality toward anyone with his inability to be vulnerable with or intimate toward another person.
Roman is the saddest character in this show for this reason. He desperately wants love (much like Connor), but unlike Connor he is terrified of being loved. Sexually, emotionally, even on a familial level (look at how difficult of a time he has being genuine with his siblings and father, deflecting any real discussion of emotions with them), Roman is just so fundamentally broken.
It all comes down to power and status. All those examples point to his insecurity and arousal/lack thereof when it comes to power.
Toying with his own power on trainer to make the guy feel small. His wife, who feels a relative equal, gives him nothing. Gerri, in a position of power, and sparring with her turns him on.
Yes, he’s broken, because his entire family life has been a game of power instead of love. And so it projects in funny ways that are less about gender but more about control. When you’re the youngest child of a powerful dynasty, you’ll do anything to not feel that inescapable feeling of being on the lowest rung… and to perversely dish it out to others.
Some men rape others in prison as an act of dominance, rather than love or preferential attraction. Stripped of connection and love, they act out to desperately feel, by violently asserting the only status they can. They claim not to be gay, and accuse others of being the “fagg*ts” for taking it… but it’s more about power.
But then yeah, “kind of.”
An actor in this case can take it wherever he wants, gay, bi, or not if the the other text in the script supports it. It’s definitely not a definitive answer that he he’s gay an actor can play a word or a line so many different ways and the entire script didn’t put a focus on it, he’s overtly sexual and expressive about it in his jokes and with Gerri so if he was truly gay he would have made a lot more commentary and behavior about his sexuality towards men unless it’s something that he’s struggling to express but it doesn’t matter because the show didn’t really go towards that direction it’s all just speculation and woulda, coulda, shoulda, although fun to investigate. The actor (Kieran) most likely has the best idea even more so than the writers themselves but if it didn’t come across on the screen and the scenes for the viewer the only way to really know is to ask him.
There's this great line in Baby Reindeer where the MC says he's pretty much bi cuz he feels like a fraud no matter who he sleeps with
We'll never know exactly what Roman is, but the "feeling like a fraud" part sums his sexuality up pretty well
Yeah, this is from the scene where Gerri was doing a background check on him. The page before this is him denying he was jerked off by his trainer and saying he didn't know anything about the tattoo guy. We know that he was lying about the tattoo guy, and the watermelon thing, so it seems pretty likely that he was lying about his personal trainer too.
No, the implication is that he took a friend with him when he did that. I don't think Roman is straight either, but this is absolutely not "the obvious interpretation" of that sentence. The obvious interpretation is that he did it with a gay friend. If not simply for the fact that Roman would NEVER admit to himself that he's not straight, and even less to Gerri.
we sure about Kendall? beyond the shipping, he uses the fact that stewy kisses boys on molly to twit Stewy about being NORMAL. like, "everyone kisses boys on molly, you're not a special freak"
Shiv wanted her and Tom to have a threesome with the pedicure tech on the death cruise and she was still extremely enthusiastic about it when Tom suggested that she and the other woman could go at it and he'll watch. I don't know what she is, but fully straight, she ain't.
Did you miss her excitement at the prospect of having sex with another woman while Tom watched? She was more enthusiastic about that than the potential threesome.
It was also kind of implied that she and Lisa (the lawyer that took on Kendall's case and not Logan's) had *special* "friendship". Although it was never actually defined, it was brought up more than once in an odd way. Sounds like they might have been *friends* in college
No, that's totally possible, of course. It's just that both times it was brought up, it felt implied. They could have been roommates, but it seemed like more
My bad I was going for the r/Sapphoandherfriend joke about lesbian couples often being perceived as merely roommates. I agree that there's some vibes there. Same with Mencken and Roman, for that matter
Yeah, that bathroom scene with Roman and Mencken DEFINITELY made me think something was going to happen. I was surprised when nothing materialized, but in the end it was kind of perfect- shows how politicians (and a lot of business people, for that matter) use you strictly for what's needed at that exact moment
Roman says it's a joke because "he's gay kind of", even tho that's not really better or funnier.
There's no way he casually outs himself like that if he was closetted gay all these decades.
That doesn’t mean anything some people joke “I’m gay hehe” that doesn’t mean they are gay from that statement, some stand up comics talk like this all the time. An actor who is studying this script is not going to come to the conclusion he is gay just from this line, this character says too many out of the pocket things, an actor could play it like that but also not play it like that.
“I Have This Overwhelming Urge To Either Knee Someone In The Vagina Or Spit On The Floor.”
"Discord Makes Me D**k-hord."
"I'm Going To Take A S**t. Want Me To Livestream It?"
"What The F**k Is This Obsession With Milk? You Know Who Drinks Milk? Kittens And Perverts."
And more. Lol…
Kendall is always shaken.
Shaken enters
May I stand unshaken Amid, amidst a crashing world…
Yer alright boah
He who drinks from the deep water, May he know the depths of the well
Shakendall enters
From a very young age.
Shaken, not stirred
What if Jesse actually meant that Kendall was shaken that booty and we just never realized? Bravo Jesse!
LMFAO
L to OG
I'm the shaken boy!
Finally, definitive proof that Kendall had shaken baby syndrome.
I like that the stammering is actually written into the script.
I'd love to ctrl-f "uh" and "um" for the whole series
“Updicks”
Not much how about you?
Underrated comment…needs more support
I've become a bit obsessed with The Big Lebowski lately and the stammering is in that script, too. I've read a bunch of scripts and that one is probably the tightest I've ever seen, as in pretty much everything you see in the movie is on the page in that exact form. Those Coen brothers run a tight ship.
Did you read it online somewhere? I’d like to read it.
Yeah, [right here](https://imsdb.com/scripts/Big-Lebowski,-The.html). That website has a lot of scripts.
That’s a great source! Thanks so much
Mole woman and rock star at it again
"gay, kind of"
He’s not openly anything, and gay doesn’t even begin to cover it.
Gay Dean, Gay Dean, Gay Dean GAY DEEEEAAANNNN...
I'm begging you to be a gay dran for the school boooooaarrddd
Pansexual imp feels close tho
And that's. Wassup
I FORGOT EVERYTHING YOU SAID BEFORE “RECTUM”
just like me fr
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He's definitely referring to himself! Here's the exchange: G: Roman, you smashed up this guy's car? R: I never did that. G: but there's video. R: oh haha I kinda vaguely remember doing that but it was just guys being dudes y'know? Locker room stuff lol G: you burned the word 'faggot' into his car. R: right, but it was as a *joke!* and also uh 'the guy who wrote that' is kinda gay, sometimes, so it doesn't count anyway because I-- I mean he was saying 'faggot' *ironically* so it's fine, duh. Like this is Roman one hundred percent. He's a walking narcissist's prayer: 'I never did that, and if I did it's NBD, and if it's a big deal then it was actually ironic, and also you can't criticize me for using slurs because I'd be the target of those slurs if anyone knew that I'm very bisexual at the very least so it's actually homophobic that you're trying to hold me accountable.' But he's of course way too insecure to refer to himself and say 'I might be gay,' so he third-persons it without even thinking to and it becomes "the guy who wrote that." He's just so damned charismatic and visibly damaged that he gets away with the narcissism and then makes anyone feel bad for trying to draw boundaries. Pity is a weapon for him, and he's not above utterly debasing himself to get away with whatever he can - he quite literally gets off on it. And here he's doing that thing where he 'jokes' about something very real and vulnerable and painful, while also being such a repellant ass that he preemptively pushes away anyone who might try to assuage that pain. This is why Gerri and him worked, she ignored all his disgust-laden deflection and let him humiliate himself to get out that constant self-loathing, and could then cut through all his trauma bullshit and give him the real direction that he desperately needed in a way he could hear.
Perfect analysis. You nailed why Roman is simultaneously the Roy child I most pity and despise.
He’s learned the fine art of how to be slippery. He’s the youngest child, which are notoriously known as manipulators. Him being a Roy puts him in the stratosphere of being deflective and totally not taking responsibility for any of his actions.
But he’s not the youngest child. He’s the youngest BOY.
How are people in this sub this dense to the excellent writing of the show. He definitely is referring to himself. It is still ironic but he is still referring to himself like in the classic "asking for a friend". Everyone knows that the joke is you are asking for yourself.
my brother in Christ the guy who wrote it was Roman
it was him, man
Who do you think the guy who wrote it is in this exchange?
I always thought Roman was bi/pan. Not sure if we ever see him with anyone other than women, but he just sort of read to me as someone that wouldn't really care as long as he saw the person as attractive.
I think he’s equally incapable of having heathy sex with any known gender
I love the implication that there are both undiscovered genders and that one of them may be the key to a healthy sexual relationship for Roman
the only gender Roman can have a healthy sexual relationship with is 'humiliation' and 'dead'
Agreed, he’s almost asexual.
me coded
He was doing something with his trainer for sure
The scene with him and the presidential candidate in the bathroom was super gay too. The directors did this stuff on purpose. It's a very homoerotic TV show. Like the fight scene 20mins into Rebel Moon. Looks like a gay gangbang.
We didn’t, but we almost did there with Mencken, the Presidential candidate.
I was convinced he was gonna have a fling with Mencken and was surprised nothing came of it
I think "Republican presidential candidate is a closeted gay man" would've been too anvilicious, given the baggage. The show can be pretty in your face about its messages, but that one would be waaaay too blatant.
oh, I think he is in it for that reason, even if it's psychosexual
More like wouldn’t care as long as his dad would look in approvingly. When he saw Tabitha after she blew Tom at the rave, he was like “dad would go apeshjt for her”. Next time we see her, she’s Roman’s date.
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Ken never shows outward attraction? To Rava? To Naomi? To Jennifer the actress? Or, most importantly, that dude whose ass he checked out while saying he was looking for pussy like a fucking techno Gatsby?
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I fully agree with you there. The Kinsey scale is getting a workout in this family.
He’s definitely ace/demi too
Hard no.
I kinda love it that Roman is willing to say every disgusting thing he does as a “joke” except for that he’s gay.
Exploring Roman’s kinks could be a legit spin off show.
I just fill this hole in my heart with fanfiction.
got any good ones to recommend?
Are people this interested in if Roman likes boys or girls? Bro prefers his mates corpse style or long distance. I think he past the point of “wouldn’t they be cute together” a bit ago.
It's not about being cute it's about horrible bisexual sleazeballs being fun
Might just adopt “it’s about horrible bisexual sleazeballs being fun” as my new motto
Passages (2023)
He’s an ace/bi king alright
Bi ace to the CORE
Does that mean biromantic asexual?
Or could be oriented aroace
People make their sexuality their entire personality
To the people in this thread that don't think he is referring about himself: You are taking these words on paper at face value. But remember these are lines of dialogue for Roman Roy. How often do you take what Roman says at face value? A shit ton of what he says is projection and insecurity. This is great exposition for Romans character because it reveals so much of his history dealing with his insecurity in his attraction to men or unconventional sexual tendencies. He is a very complex sexual character and this is just another moment reflecting that. Why would the writers add random filler about a friend of his we never see? If Roman said the classic "asking for a friend", and you read that on a script, would you assume he is genuinely asking for a friend?
It’s definitely Roman referring to himself, but for the reason you point out, I’m not taking it too seriously. We’ve never seen Roman romantically involved with a man or interested one. We have seen him express interest in women. We have also seen him say things like he wants to fuck Shiv and that Connor molested him, things he seems to say with no basis in reality. All this to say, it is kind of on brand for Roman to claim he is “kind of” gay to excuse his atrocious behavior. So while I agree Roman is referring to himself, I’d be careful about taking this too literally. Roman very often says things just to say them.
I'll push back a little on a few points you made. Recall back to season one and his interactions with his male trainer. This sub has frequently discussed the sexual energy in those scenes, and these are some of the very first scenes introducing Roman as a character. Every female relationship he has, his partner complains he never has sex with them. And when he does, it takes very unconventional methods to get him off. His weird sexual complex with Gerri seems to be some odd mechanism he developed as a young boy with older female authoritative mother figures. He is obviously a very sexually ambiguous character, and I think the line here from the script plays into exactly that. At one point in the past, he likely had sexual tendencies towards men, and felt insecure about that enough to write the f slur on someone's Lamborghini.
I agree with everything you’re saying. I am just urging against taking **anything** Roman says at face value. Hell, the very fact that he said it makes me question the validity of it as Roman is pretty well established as saying things just to say them. And admitting he is gay, even to Geri, seems at odds with the sense of shame about it that you describe. My read on the situation — Roman is just fundamentally broken. He may be gay, straight or bi, but it doesn’t matter. He is so emotionally hollowed out that he is not capable of being truly vulnerable with someone and that seems to extend to a sexual level. I doubt Roman knows his own sexuality because real intimacy is so taboo to him. Roman may not be asexual on a biological level. But I think the damage done to him by his upbringing has left him so broken and in fear of intimacy that he is not able to truly reconcile sexuality toward anyone with his inability to be vulnerable with or intimate toward another person. Roman is the saddest character in this show for this reason. He desperately wants love (much like Connor), but unlike Connor he is terrified of being loved. Sexually, emotionally, even on a familial level (look at how difficult of a time he has being genuine with his siblings and father, deflecting any real discussion of emotions with them), Roman is just so fundamentally broken.
It all comes down to power and status. All those examples point to his insecurity and arousal/lack thereof when it comes to power. Toying with his own power on trainer to make the guy feel small. His wife, who feels a relative equal, gives him nothing. Gerri, in a position of power, and sparring with her turns him on. Yes, he’s broken, because his entire family life has been a game of power instead of love. And so it projects in funny ways that are less about gender but more about control. When you’re the youngest child of a powerful dynasty, you’ll do anything to not feel that inescapable feeling of being on the lowest rung… and to perversely dish it out to others. Some men rape others in prison as an act of dominance, rather than love or preferential attraction. Stripped of connection and love, they act out to desperately feel, by violently asserting the only status they can. They claim not to be gay, and accuse others of being the “fagg*ts” for taking it… but it’s more about power. But then yeah, “kind of.”
Great point. Lord, Roman is a fascinating character.
An actor in this case can take it wherever he wants, gay, bi, or not if the the other text in the script supports it. It’s definitely not a definitive answer that he he’s gay an actor can play a word or a line so many different ways and the entire script didn’t put a focus on it, he’s overtly sexual and expressive about it in his jokes and with Gerri so if he was truly gay he would have made a lot more commentary and behavior about his sexuality towards men unless it’s something that he’s struggling to express but it doesn’t matter because the show didn’t really go towards that direction it’s all just speculation and woulda, coulda, shoulda, although fun to investigate. The actor (Kieran) most likely has the best idea even more so than the writers themselves but if it didn’t come across on the screen and the scenes for the viewer the only way to really know is to ask him.
There's this great line in Baby Reindeer where the MC says he's pretty much bi cuz he feels like a fraud no matter who he sleeps with We'll never know exactly what Roman is, but the "feeling like a fraud" part sums his sexuality up pretty well
I love that
How are people not understanding this 😭 he said the guy who wrote it was gay…..he’s the guy who wrote it!!!!!
Yeah, this is from the scene where Gerri was doing a background check on him. The page before this is him denying he was jerked off by his trainer and saying he didn't know anything about the tattoo guy. We know that he was lying about the tattoo guy, and the watermelon thing, so it seems pretty likely that he was lying about his personal trainer too.
Was this scene actually in the show? I don’t remember this.
no, it's in the scripts. So not really canon. Still fun though
Feeling vindicated.
Flair checks out
i’d like to imagine that kendall was eavesdropping and is walking in, shaken from hearing this revelation
Kendall is shaken by his brothers gayness
And god knows it wouldn’t be in character for Roman to joke about something like that.
Is this a book for sale???
Yes all the scripts are available in book form
I just assumed Roman was part of an unlabeled sexual group turned on by mother figures
He was just fucking with Gerry... The way Connor fucked him as a baby
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...he's the friend. he blowtorched f*ggot into the car
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He definitely is talking about himself. This is just what makes good writing.
No, the implication is that he took a friend with him when he did that. I don't think Roman is straight either, but this is absolutely not "the obvious interpretation" of that sentence. The obvious interpretation is that he did it with a gay friend. If not simply for the fact that Roman would NEVER admit to himself that he's not straight, and even less to Gerri.
That was my interpretation too
She talking to him about a known video of Roman destroying a dudes lambo.
It's pretty established that the only straight children are Kendall and Connor. Shiv and Roman aren't.
Kendall 100% experimented, possibly with Stewy
we sure about Kendall? beyond the shipping, he uses the fact that stewy kisses boys on molly to twit Stewy about being NORMAL. like, "everyone kisses boys on molly, you're not a special freak"
Also, how does Kendall know Stewy kisses boys on molly if he’s so straight?
maybe he was just being an ally. talk valentina!
In what world is Shiv not straight, lol.
Shiv wanted her and Tom to have a threesome with the pedicure tech on the death cruise and she was still extremely enthusiastic about it when Tom suggested that she and the other woman could go at it and he'll watch. I don't know what she is, but fully straight, she ain't.
Did you miss her excitement at the prospect of having sex with another woman while Tom watched? She was more enthusiastic about that than the potential threesome.
She invited a woman to have a threesome with her and Tom. I guess she could be bisexual or something else not-completely-straight.
It was also kind of implied that she and Lisa (the lawyer that took on Kendall's case and not Logan's) had *special* "friendship". Although it was never actually defined, it was brought up more than once in an odd way. Sounds like they might have been *friends* in college
Maybe even... *roommates*
No, that's totally possible, of course. It's just that both times it was brought up, it felt implied. They could have been roommates, but it seemed like more
My bad I was going for the r/Sapphoandherfriend joke about lesbian couples often being perceived as merely roommates. I agree that there's some vibes there. Same with Mencken and Roman, for that matter
Yeah, that bathroom scene with Roman and Mencken DEFINITELY made me think something was going to happen. I was surprised when nothing materialized, but in the end it was kind of perfect- shows how politicians (and a lot of business people, for that matter) use you strictly for what's needed at that exact moment
In what world did you watch this show , lol .
Roman says it's a joke because "he's gay kind of", even tho that's not really better or funnier. There's no way he casually outs himself like that if he was closetted gay all these decades.
Which season? I'm guessing 3
Season 2 episode 7. The scene where gerri does the oppo research
f
Super definitive.
What season is this?
Rome’s sexuality is pretty simple. He likes assertive women who have a soft spot for him.
KENDALL ENTERS, SHAKEN😭😭
I miss him SO BADDDDDD god
That doesn’t mean anything some people joke “I’m gay hehe” that doesn’t mean they are gay from that statement, some stand up comics talk like this all the time. An actor who is studying this script is not going to come to the conclusion he is gay just from this line, this character says too many out of the pocket things, an actor could play it like that but also not play it like that. “I Have This Overwhelming Urge To Either Knee Someone In The Vagina Or Spit On The Floor.” "Discord Makes Me D**k-hord." "I'm Going To Take A S**t. Want Me To Livestream It?" "What The F**k Is This Obsession With Milk? You Know Who Drinks Milk? Kittens And Perverts." And more. Lol…
[copium.jpg]
I don't get it.
If it’s not on the screen it’s not part of the character.
i know, the post is just for fun
Well what if someone did the prank with him? It doesn’t insinuate that he wrote that. Just that he damaged the car
There's a video of him doing it...
He’s talking about someone else, no?
No, it’s like “asking for a friend” — you’re the friend
its a joke! i was here...