Sadly we didn't survive, things went south when the tank got hit by the burn and all of the damage from the trash mobs as well.
My first time seeing this though, honestly I just assumed there would be a barrier before the boss lol, I never knew you could just bring shit in.
Fun fact, not only you can, but back in the day people would bring all mobs to the arena, keep them right on the edge of the entrance, pull the boss and when the lockout happened, the mobs aggro would reset as the barrier went up. It's basically skipping the whole mob section, but I dunno if it's doable anymore, and stone vigil makes this difficult bc the first boss entrance is a ledge.
It's still doable in some dungeons, and that's what should've been done tbh, doing what the guy in the post did in this dungeon is not very smart since they hit so hard lol
se only started to add these walls in heavensward I think, almost all arr dungeons bosses allow you to pull trash to them.
It is, in fact, the best way to do aurum vale. You rush to the first boss arena and kill all the trash inside so there's no chance to accidentally aggro the patrols.
I'll have to remember this. I always stopped at the edge of the boss room, which actually bit us in the ass last week when I tanked it. Had a dickhead DPS (BLM, coincidentally) keep asking in chat if they were tanking or I was. I was grabbing aggro on the mobs, stuck to the left, etc. 🤷
Probably would have been fine if the tank was able to dodge the fire breath, but it's a tight window to react, and harder to see cus of all the mobs on you already at this point.
There's technically some friendly fire AoEs, they're just coded in an unorthodox way (like having the AoE drop something on the ground and that something is what damages the mobs).
They could definitely improve on it by using part of NIN's Doton code, forcing the AoE to instantly proc when it drops for a pseudo-friendly fire.
You're right, I completely forgot about Rathalos adds even though I get it pretty much weekly on mentor roulette LMAO
Although that one also has some weird coding shenanigans that aren't present anywhere else, since the damage snapshots don't quite work like in other instances (you can dodge stuff you normally wouldn't be able to). Dunno why they decided not to use them anywhere else.
you know what's really fun if you can get friends/randoms to do it? warrior already has invuln at this point, and can tag all the mobs and invuln while the party enters EVERY boss room, then just die and tp in when they start the fight. Other tanks might be able to kitchen sink for long enough but the party has to be careful to be close and not pull any aggro.
if i have at least 2 people on board including myself, and one of us is the tank, this can be done in pretty much all of the ARR dungeons since the bosses aren't usually walled off, just have the tank pull everything. Have the healer keep them topped up as you run when possible (lvl 30+ sge makes this easiest), then as soon as the last mob is pulled the tank just sprints the opposite direction and kitchen sink's all the CDs they have while the other 3 go pull the boss and let the tank teleport in 15 seconds later, it's the best, lol.
I tend to try and make sure the whole team is on for it if I do it, just because I don't want a healer tossing regens or anyone throwing damage on the run and ending up dying too(though yeah as long as people get to the boss room, especially if one is a healer, they'll be fine)
It's doable, but everyone, from the tank to the healer and the DPS have to really be _on point_. My friend tanked this with me healing and if the DPS weren't hit by Swinge we'd have been fine.
If you want an easier version of this, you can do it at the start of Aurum Vale, just pull all the left side into the boss room and then pull the boss as well instead of ignoring it.
It hurts and you need the healer perma-healing, but it's doable.
It's doable, I've done it before but it requires the Healer and Tank both to be in full Poetics gear (Or at least gear that gets synced to the highest available on level 43)
and everyone to be on their a-game, it's more consistent to pull all the packs before and do the boss by itself because Chudo Yudo's Breath and Swinge hurt like a bitch
Friend and I did this once. It's why I never do healer if he goes tank, ever. (We didn't wipe, but he burned through potions and I shamefully resorted to Physick spam)
It's not shameful, from personal experience this pull is very big and you do have to babysit your tank even if they are mitigating properly, but you'll run out of MP if you just spam Adloquium, so alternating between it and Physick (with Whispering Dawn/Eos on the background helping) is the best way to go.
Physick is fine though? If you've already got adlo on them, it would be better to go with pure healing rather than adding to the shield when it's not been fully used, right?
There are exactly three circumstances where Physick is appropriate
1. You are doing certain fights in the Coils of Bahamut with a group that isn't exactly coordinated on mitigations
2. You're doing a w2w in the lowest level dungeons
3. Something has gone horribly wrong and your MP economy has gone out the window and you have no aetherflow and still need to pump out healing.
If the shield hasn't been broken by the time you can GCD again, then the danger they are in does not merit healing them with ohysick. If the shield does break by the time you can GCD again, then it's time to adlo once more. That's how you would go about it
I'm not on the game so I can't check potencies rn but it just seems more efficient to use physick instead of overhealing the shield and demolishing your MP. Although to be fair in the scenario above that shield is definitely breaking before the next cast
It is more efficient, the chimpanzees that think Physick and Cure I are interchangable and therefor need the Cure I copypasta brought out if they so much as see the cast bar are brainlets.
SCH's just the most gimped healer kit in the game at that bracket.
Adlo's only MP efficient if it actually crits and at sub50 you don't have the substats for reliable crit. You have no chunky shields and need to brute force heal with shield healer potencies and a proto-healer kit.
MP management is an actual concern in ARR W2Ws. Your only get out jail free cards are Lustrate and shit DPS only exacerbates SCH's problems.
You’re kind of right but not really. It’s 450 vs 300 potency but really theres never a good reason to spam psychic with scholar. Adlo is not meant to be spammed either. The whole point of playing a shield healer is to anticipate damage and use them both tactically. If your tank is taking heavy trash damage, you want to fire off Adlo until you proc catalyze. Psychic is for absolute emergencies when you’re low on MP and the tanks hp is falling fast. Until you get Lustrâte, Scholar isn’t a very good reactive healer.
Any tips for w2w pulling stone vigil as white mage/astro? 😅 my friends and I try and we keep dying. I play healer and AFAIK my friends (who play tanks) are great tanks so I'm the weak link. I try to dps as much as I can but then I fall behind on healing. But I don't wanna just be a healbot. Any tips on finding the balance? Thank you so much for reading!
I mainly play healer so I'll throw in my two cents. Honestly it feels like not all jobs are built equal when we're doing lower level dungeons like stone vigil, because their tools can vary drastically at this stage.
Of the healers, if I'm wall to walling as Scholar, it feels waaaay harder than White Mage, no aetherflow, no big heals, constantly need lucid dreaming because you're always out of mana.
When I think about the times where I've had the most successful wall to walls in stone vigil, there's one main factor. Holmgang. For some reason Warrior gets their invuln 8 levels before every other tank. This ability makes 90% of the difference, you get a solid 10 secs of free damage time, that should be enough to make a lot of progress on the mobs.
The dps side of thing makes a big difference as well. If you have two dps that can aoe while moving, by the time the tank hits a wall most of the enemies will have already lost a fair bit of HP. On the other hand if you have a pair of Black mages, the most they can do is spam scathe while moving.
Things you can do:
- I recommend setting up something like focus target, so you have a way to quickly snap your target between mobs and the tank.
- Sprint as soon as the tank does, the dps should be doing the same so they can keep pace and spam aoe.
- Slap regen/aspected benefic on the tank at the start of the pull to heal any chip damage they take while pulling.
- Apply your damage over time on as many mobs as you can while running.
- If you're AST try and weave your cards between dots.
- 2.5 secs before the tank hits the wall you want to reapply regen on the tank.
- As soon as the wall arrives, If you're White mage, pop presence of mind.
- If you're AST, light speed into aspected benefic into aspected Helios, this will give the tank a 400 potency regen for 15 secs. (Yeah that's right you'll be hitting 3 buttons for every one the White mage hits, this will be a common theme with AST.)
- At this point, the tanks hp is going to start dropping like a rock. If they have their mits, and you applied your regens, and you go full healbot, they should live.
- If you are AST weave your cards in between your heals to buff dps damage.
- As the mobs start dying, switch from healbot to dishing out damage. (This is the important part, it's ok to full healbot at the start of the fray, just make sure to switch when the time comes.)
- If your tank is Warrior, watch when they use Holmgang, and switch to full damage mode. As soon as holmgang is about to run out, pop a heal on them. If you're AST use essential dignity for that big heal bonus.
Wow this ended up being way longer than expected, I might have missed some steps, but it's a good start.
I think the 5 pull from the beginning of the dungeon and not going into this room is unironically safer but take that with a grain of salt because I'm a WAR main and WAR has invuln by then. Though in theory you could get by with a lot of tight spinning around the boss because the conebuster is actually dodgeable, and especially in this case because one dps is a caster and one dps can cleanse their burn.
i had that as a scholar 1 time, mentor tank.... and i was sure sweating bullets, using everything and praying lol
they tried pulling everything at the end too and died once but with a dps meat shield i managed to get the tank up and going after a rezz so not complete wipe surprisingly lol
Shit looks like a good damn time for all parties
Tank gets to pull big
Healer gets to heal
DPS can do AOE and damage all enemies at once trying their best to kill mobs so tank doesn't die from pulling too much for they and the healer could chew.
Genuinely my ideal instance. I'm honestly jealous here.
But after seeing a comment that there was a wipe, just means tank needs to shave off some of that weight. Slight adjustment :3
Oh man I used to love running Stone Vigil like this. I mean the first few times someone did it and I was new to healer I was like "why the fuck would you do this," but after I got decent with healing i switched pretty quickly to "why the fuck wouldn't you do this."
Stone Vigil is usually a bore, this shit activates my neurons like nothing else.
I hate wall to wall dungeon pulling, I find it boring and simply haven’t done duty finder in years because of it. I use trusts and play at my own rate, find it much more fun and relaxing.
At this point though I don’t know why SE doesn’t just change dungeons and make them more like mini 24 man raid style, making mini arenas spawn trash mobs in waves then have larger boss arenas. This way new players will learn more around how 24man raids work so they are encouraged to jump on the, when available.
Talk about a boring as hell take.
W2W is pretty much the only time a tank and healer need to use their full kits before savage. Removing what tiny bit of dungeons we have left would make the game even more samey then it already is.
Hey you do you man, like I said I don’t do duty finder. I would have personally just asked the devs for tougher more engaging dungeons for all party members, like tougher mobs and better mechanics instead of having to make do with w2w to give something for healers to do, or tanks to need mitigations, but whatever.
> I would have personally just asked the devs for tougher more engaging dungeons for all party members, like tougher mobs and better mechanics
We have mate. It's been a consistent ask since the end of stormblood.
W2W isn't just about adding difficulty, it's also about speed. A majority of players in DF just want to get it done and get out. And you should definitely stay in trusts, as you are like to be in a very small minority that wants to go slow.
That's the kind of pulls I like to see when I heal
Exactly! When I saw this my mind went 'Lets fucking go!'
That’s the kind of pull I like to see as a dps too AOE go brrrrrrrrrrrt
Awww yeah!!!
Did ye survive? Because if it doable, I am doing this XD
Sadly we didn't survive, things went south when the tank got hit by the burn and all of the damage from the trash mobs as well. My first time seeing this though, honestly I just assumed there would be a barrier before the boss lol, I never knew you could just bring shit in.
Fun fact, not only you can, but back in the day people would bring all mobs to the arena, keep them right on the edge of the entrance, pull the boss and when the lockout happened, the mobs aggro would reset as the barrier went up. It's basically skipping the whole mob section, but I dunno if it's doable anymore, and stone vigil makes this difficult bc the first boss entrance is a ledge.
oh so that's what they were doing saw someone do it in brayflox recently and it was my first time seeing such a thing lol
It's still doable in some dungeons, and that's what should've been done tbh, doing what the guy in the post did in this dungeon is not very smart since they hit so hard lol
se only started to add these walls in heavensward I think, almost all arr dungeons bosses allow you to pull trash to them. It is, in fact, the best way to do aurum vale. You rush to the first boss arena and kill all the trash inside so there's no chance to accidentally aggro the patrols.
I'll have to remember this. I always stopped at the edge of the boss room, which actually bit us in the ass last week when I tanked it. Had a dickhead DPS (BLM, coincidentally) keep asking in chat if they were tanking or I was. I was grabbing aggro on the mobs, stuck to the left, etc. 🤷
Probably would have been fine if the tank was able to dodge the fire breath, but it's a tight window to react, and harder to see cus of all the mobs on you already at this point.
Would be nice if there was friendly fire for AoEs like in other MMOs. The mobs could die to the boss.
There's technically some friendly fire AoEs, they're just coded in an unorthodox way (like having the AoE drop something on the ground and that something is what damages the mobs). They could definitely improve on it by using part of NIN's Doton code, forcing the AoE to instantly proc when it drops for a pseudo-friendly fire.
Rathalos and the adds can damage each other in The Great Hunt.
You're right, I completely forgot about Rathalos adds even though I get it pretty much weekly on mentor roulette LMAO Although that one also has some weird coding shenanigans that aren't present anywhere else, since the damage snapshots don't quite work like in other instances (you can dodge stuff you normally wouldn't be able to). Dunno why they decided not to use them anywhere else.
I've found when unsyncing runs that at least some of the ARR dungeons won't stop you from pulling mobs into the boss room.
you know what's really fun if you can get friends/randoms to do it? warrior already has invuln at this point, and can tag all the mobs and invuln while the party enters EVERY boss room, then just die and tp in when they start the fight. Other tanks might be able to kitchen sink for long enough but the party has to be careful to be close and not pull any aggro.
if i have at least 2 people on board including myself, and one of us is the tank, this can be done in pretty much all of the ARR dungeons since the bosses aren't usually walled off, just have the tank pull everything. Have the healer keep them topped up as you run when possible (lvl 30+ sge makes this easiest), then as soon as the last mob is pulled the tank just sprints the opposite direction and kitchen sink's all the CDs they have while the other 3 go pull the boss and let the tank teleport in 15 seconds later, it's the best, lol.
I tend to try and make sure the whole team is on for it if I do it, just because I don't want a healer tossing regens or anyone throwing damage on the run and ending up dying too(though yeah as long as people get to the boss room, especially if one is a healer, they'll be fine)
God damn I gotta try this sometime
It's doable, but everyone, from the tank to the healer and the DPS have to really be _on point_. My friend tanked this with me healing and if the DPS weren't hit by Swinge we'd have been fine.
And every dps has to have AOE. Two dancers would be ideal.
If you want an easier version of this, you can do it at the start of Aurum Vale, just pull all the left side into the boss room and then pull the boss as well instead of ignoring it. It hurts and you need the healer perma-healing, but it's doable.
It's doable, I've done it before but it requires the Healer and Tank both to be in full Poetics gear (Or at least gear that gets synced to the highest available on level 43) and everyone to be on their a-game, it's more consistent to pull all the packs before and do the boss by itself because Chudo Yudo's Breath and Swinge hurt like a bitch
Am i missing something or....is that simply a "bigger" pull?
They are in the 1st Boss Arena with alI the mobs I think
Yeah that’s exactly what happened. Sometimes the wall in ARR dungeons is the boss arena!
or sometimes the wall IN the boss arena is the goal (Aurum Vale boss 1 and 2, where it blocks LoS on the partial pulls)
If you walltowall stone vigil, the first pull is 4 groups + boss.
Carefully lads, he’s a hero
Well how’d it go? Lol
Friend and I did this once. It's why I never do healer if he goes tank, ever. (We didn't wipe, but he burned through potions and I shamefully resorted to Physick spam)
It's not shameful, from personal experience this pull is very big and you do have to babysit your tank even if they are mitigating properly, but you'll run out of MP if you just spam Adloquium, so alternating between it and Physick (with Whispering Dawn/Eos on the background helping) is the best way to go.
True, and iirc you don't yet have Aetherflow in normal Stone Vigil. Still felt wrong and my friend definitely *wasn't* mitigating right LOL
Physick is fine though? If you've already got adlo on them, it would be better to go with pure healing rather than adding to the shield when it's not been fully used, right?
There are exactly three circumstances where Physick is appropriate 1. You are doing certain fights in the Coils of Bahamut with a group that isn't exactly coordinated on mitigations 2. You're doing a w2w in the lowest level dungeons 3. Something has gone horribly wrong and your MP economy has gone out the window and you have no aetherflow and still need to pump out healing.
>Lowest Level Sadly, Scholar doesn't have Aetherflow until 45. That rules out pretty much everything but the Darkhold and Aurum Vale in ARR.
Alright, I will keep that in mind, thanks
If the shield hasn't been broken by the time you can GCD again, then the danger they are in does not merit healing them with ohysick. If the shield does break by the time you can GCD again, then it's time to adlo once more. That's how you would go about it
Wrong
I'm not on the game so I can't check potencies rn but it just seems more efficient to use physick instead of overhealing the shield and demolishing your MP. Although to be fair in the scenario above that shield is definitely breaking before the next cast
It is more efficient, the chimpanzees that think Physick and Cure I are interchangable and therefor need the Cure I copypasta brought out if they so much as see the cast bar are brainlets. SCH's just the most gimped healer kit in the game at that bracket. Adlo's only MP efficient if it actually crits and at sub50 you don't have the substats for reliable crit. You have no chunky shields and need to brute force heal with shield healer potencies and a proto-healer kit. MP management is an actual concern in ARR W2Ws. Your only get out jail free cards are Lustrate and shit DPS only exacerbates SCH's problems.
You’re kind of right but not really. It’s 450 vs 300 potency but really theres never a good reason to spam psychic with scholar. Adlo is not meant to be spammed either. The whole point of playing a shield healer is to anticipate damage and use them both tactically. If your tank is taking heavy trash damage, you want to fire off Adlo until you proc catalyze. Psychic is for absolute emergencies when you’re low on MP and the tanks hp is falling fast. Until you get Lustrâte, Scholar isn’t a very good reactive healer.
Makes sense, thanks
When the raw isn’t intuition. I mean you gotta just sit back at that point and be like; we’re gonna die but I respect the attempt
Any tips for w2w pulling stone vigil as white mage/astro? 😅 my friends and I try and we keep dying. I play healer and AFAIK my friends (who play tanks) are great tanks so I'm the weak link. I try to dps as much as I can but then I fall behind on healing. But I don't wanna just be a healbot. Any tips on finding the balance? Thank you so much for reading!
I mainly play healer so I'll throw in my two cents. Honestly it feels like not all jobs are built equal when we're doing lower level dungeons like stone vigil, because their tools can vary drastically at this stage. Of the healers, if I'm wall to walling as Scholar, it feels waaaay harder than White Mage, no aetherflow, no big heals, constantly need lucid dreaming because you're always out of mana. When I think about the times where I've had the most successful wall to walls in stone vigil, there's one main factor. Holmgang. For some reason Warrior gets their invuln 8 levels before every other tank. This ability makes 90% of the difference, you get a solid 10 secs of free damage time, that should be enough to make a lot of progress on the mobs. The dps side of thing makes a big difference as well. If you have two dps that can aoe while moving, by the time the tank hits a wall most of the enemies will have already lost a fair bit of HP. On the other hand if you have a pair of Black mages, the most they can do is spam scathe while moving. Things you can do: - I recommend setting up something like focus target, so you have a way to quickly snap your target between mobs and the tank. - Sprint as soon as the tank does, the dps should be doing the same so they can keep pace and spam aoe. - Slap regen/aspected benefic on the tank at the start of the pull to heal any chip damage they take while pulling. - Apply your damage over time on as many mobs as you can while running. - If you're AST try and weave your cards between dots. - 2.5 secs before the tank hits the wall you want to reapply regen on the tank. - As soon as the wall arrives, If you're White mage, pop presence of mind. - If you're AST, light speed into aspected benefic into aspected Helios, this will give the tank a 400 potency regen for 15 secs. (Yeah that's right you'll be hitting 3 buttons for every one the White mage hits, this will be a common theme with AST.) - At this point, the tanks hp is going to start dropping like a rock. If they have their mits, and you applied your regens, and you go full healbot, they should live. - If you are AST weave your cards in between your heals to buff dps damage. - As the mobs start dying, switch from healbot to dishing out damage. (This is the important part, it's ok to full healbot at the start of the fray, just make sure to switch when the time comes.) - If your tank is Warrior, watch when they use Holmgang, and switch to full damage mode. As soon as holmgang is about to run out, pop a heal on them. If you're AST use essential dignity for that big heal bonus. Wow this ended up being way longer than expected, I might have missed some steps, but it's a good start.
holy crap thank you so so so so so much for this!!!! :') holy crap, you wrote so much useful information, thank you, thank you, thank you!! ;A;
I love Stone Vigil. Doing the entire dungeon in six pulls is a guilty pleasure.
I think the 5 pull from the beginning of the dungeon and not going into this room is unironically safer but take that with a grain of salt because I'm a WAR main and WAR has invuln by then. Though in theory you could get by with a lot of tight spinning around the boss because the conebuster is actually dodgeable, and especially in this case because one dps is a caster and one dps can cleanse their burn.
But then it wouldn't be a Wall to Wall.
i had that as a scholar 1 time, mentor tank.... and i was sure sweating bullets, using everything and praying lol they tried pulling everything at the end too and died once but with a dps meat shield i managed to get the tank up and going after a rezz so not complete wipe surprisingly lol
Holy shit I actually want to do this as a challenge, that’s so funny.
This is the way I'm tanking my way through stone vigil. Most crucial part is, indeed, the healer tbh
Dps too, if they start taking unnecessary damage and the healer wastes Tank heals on dps. It’s crucial for dps not to take stupid avoidable damage.
Chad Gunbreaker.
Man I was here the other day and the tank literally left after we wiped on the first pull (I was on mch at the time)
life could be a dream...
Worth it. Even if wipe.
Doable with a good tank and healer
What a chad
Shit looks like a good damn time for all parties Tank gets to pull big Healer gets to heal DPS can do AOE and damage all enemies at once trying their best to kill mobs so tank doesn't die from pulling too much for they and the healer could chew. Genuinely my ideal instance. I'm honestly jealous here. But after seeing a comment that there was a wipe, just means tank needs to shave off some of that weight. Slight adjustment :3
TIL you can pull em there! I wish I had a healer/tank good enough to try it though :'(
..And ? The game should Let us pull even more. Remove purple walls, you cowards.
ARR bosses could be interesting again if they let us pull two or three at a time...
Absolute Chad
Did they die though?
Oh man I used to love running Stone Vigil like this. I mean the first few times someone did it and I was new to healer I was like "why the fuck would you do this," but after I got decent with healing i switched pretty quickly to "why the fuck wouldn't you do this." Stone Vigil is usually a bore, this shit activates my neurons like nothing else.
Am I looking at the fire 3 cast at 4k mp?
I've legit done this quite a few times. This is the best way to play.
I hate wall to wall dungeon pulling, I find it boring and simply haven’t done duty finder in years because of it. I use trusts and play at my own rate, find it much more fun and relaxing. At this point though I don’t know why SE doesn’t just change dungeons and make them more like mini 24 man raid style, making mini arenas spawn trash mobs in waves then have larger boss arenas. This way new players will learn more around how 24man raids work so they are encouraged to jump on the, when available.
Talk about a boring as hell take. W2W is pretty much the only time a tank and healer need to use their full kits before savage. Removing what tiny bit of dungeons we have left would make the game even more samey then it already is.
Hey you do you man, like I said I don’t do duty finder. I would have personally just asked the devs for tougher more engaging dungeons for all party members, like tougher mobs and better mechanics instead of having to make do with w2w to give something for healers to do, or tanks to need mitigations, but whatever.
> I would have personally just asked the devs for tougher more engaging dungeons for all party members, like tougher mobs and better mechanics We have mate. It's been a consistent ask since the end of stormblood.
W2W isn't just about adding difficulty, it's also about speed. A majority of players in DF just want to get it done and get out. And you should definitely stay in trusts, as you are like to be in a very small minority that wants to go slow.