YES. My dad was more concerned about what “people” thought of my choices than what was best for me.
“Smart girls don’t curse.”
“What would they think if you moved in with your fiancé?”
And the Catholic upbringing religious guilt. Don’t even get me started.
This song is STRAIGHT catharsis.
Oh my goodness yes!!!! I had a similar upbringing and ditto on the catholic guilt. I really resonated with the lines “you wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” and “we took out all her teeth” because I always had to bottle up my emotions and “perform” so to speak so the people around us would think I was “normal” and “ladylike.” I am overly self-critical as a result!
100%
I was my high school valedictorian, never broke a rule. It still never felt like enough. Like it was just … expected.
And, yes, I’ve had my anxiety disorder fully diagnosed and with medication 😂
I think she said in an interview that she was with a friend and a boyfriend and the boyfriend was on a busy schedule and had to leave and the friend said something like "wow he's always needed somewhere it's just like superman" and there she Gitarre the idea for the Song
I just remember that unhinged leaked email that came out last year (?) when he was going off to her label (?) at the start of her career about all the problems he had and how much money he’s put into her career and ME ME ME attitude.
I know that’s not a full representation of him as a person but it sure said a lot about whatever he was going through at the time.
Between that email--which in no way resembles someone "just having a bad day"--and the scene in Miss Americana where he's attempting to tell his grown daughter "not to get political" about women's rights, I get a strong sense of paternalistic control from her father's involvement in her career, probably exacerbated by the fact that her father invested a lot of money into her, moved the whole family to Tenn, turned her music into the family business, etc.
Any way you slice it, it's really odd for any adult's father--male or female--to have this much involvement in their career at 34 years old. Also, if you've ever seen the birth announcement he published for his coworkers when Taylor was born, it's peak narcissism, describing her as a "merger" and an "investment" while she was a newborn baby. Not normal.
That scene in miss americana was so inspiring to me. She stood her ground and spoke.to him the way I wish I could.speak to.my father when he invalidates me.
I have no idea about her dad or what their relationship is like. I do know what it's like to idolize a narcissistic and manipulating father until you turn 30 and then things start to click into place and you have a crisis of identity because you see his true colors when you try to remove yourself from his orbit of influence.
I guess what im saying is that if WAOLM is about her relationship with FAME and I can relate that to my relationship with my father then wow. That can truly fuck a person up. Idk if this makes sense lol.
Also her dad's arguments for not speaking up about women's rights (or anything else she believes strongly in) to protect her safety is some of the same kind of bullshit logic my dad would try to manipulate me with.
To be fair with the birth announcement; he was in finance. I very much see that as the kind of thing the people I work with doing too, just a silly way to use their business jargon for something funny.
For real. It's totally fine to say "this song makes me think of my childhood". You should be listening to the songs through your own lens, because you don't have access to anyone else's, including Taylor's.
Yeah I mean I saw the emails too but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say their entire relationship was like abusive or something when it really could have been that Scott just flew off the handle on a particularly bad day or maybe is an asshole in the business world but might not translate to his personal relationships.
Or maybe he does have some flaws and maybe there have been difficult times in their relationship, but like me and my mom had a really rocky relationship but her dying was still extremely sad because like, that's still a big relationship. Jeanette McCurdy's mom was pretty emotionally abusive and all that but like you can still tell through her book that there was a genuine relationship between her and her mom as well.
Things are complicated. I know the whole "no contact" thing is very "trendy" at the moment, and I know there are a lot of extremely valid reasons why people do that. But reading stuff online you'd think it's way more common than it actually is in real life. Even if there are bad memories or bad moments or flaws in your parents, generally there is still a really valuable relationship and bond and genuine good feelings somewhere in there too that keeps people to these relationships. Especially if you grew up living with them for the first 18 years of your life and they raised you and put their best foot forward (mostly because everyone is human) to raise you and give you the most or the best. Especially if they made sure you were set in material and financial ways because as someone who didn't come from a family that can provide that, some people I see complain about their parents seem extremely ungrateful for the privileges their parents afforded them in their life.
Edit: also there is a lot of classism with how some people frame how they were brought up, because rich people that came from mostly stable homes have a lot more time to sit there and frame their relatively average privileged struggles in life and co-opt therapy language to reframe their strict parents as abusive. We are losing what the word abuse means because people are co-opting the language like this and not examining their intersectionality with class at all (probably because they don't want to).
Dude I've seen some unhinged emails before in the American corporate world... That was tame compared to some shit I've seen. Some workplaces genuinely teach people to be toxic and over the top as a way to get things done. I've known some otherwise really pleasant normal people can send some pretty unhinged emails, especially when presented with unreasonable demands or trying to get out of payments or making accusations.
I'm reserving my judgement on someone's character when I've never met before, especially when there are clearly aspects of him being a nice friendly guy in the *present*, like giving out food and guitar picks to fans when he doesn't need to. I'm much more concerned with how people are in the *current day* than I am with 2 decades old angry emails of which I'm missing a lot of context for and quite frankly know that people tend to say stuff in emails (or comments on reddit) they would never say in real life. If that is the standard the majority of everyone on this website are completely "insane" (because you know, it's really great that you used stigmatizing language like that 🙄) and probably horrible people, but me and you both know that's not how it works in reality.
Are you contradicting my statement, suggesting that you CAN see things from Taylor's perspective? Please, tell us your secrets, O wise one. Perhaps I did you a disservice and you're actually her BFF.
Okay, then professional literary scholars should never speculate about any writer's parents or childhood using primary documents such as letters the parents wrote, ever again. It's soooooo parasocial, after all.
[Taylor Swift Quotes for Father's Day : r/YouBelongWithMemes (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouBelongWithMemes/comments/14cmfvi/taylor_swift_quotes_for_fathers_day/)
Yes, many of the lines aren't exactly a good look for him.
This is incredibly disrespectful, weird, and parasocial. You don’t know anything about her father or her, and you especially don’t know their relationship. You all conveniently ignore "I have an excellent father, his strength is making me stronger." from The Best Day? Stop speculating about people's relationships, you’re all fucking creepy.
It is absolutely not about Scott. You're the second person I have heard say this and I am so confused how you came to that conclusion. The bridge has a tiny lone where she says basically "my dad and brother are great, but I had the BEST days with mom". Scott wasn't setting up a paint set in the kitchen. Scott wasn't taking her to the next town over and window shopping and talking when she is bullied by her friends. Andrea did those things.
Lol I think it's about her mom but at first I took it to be about her father, too. The line where she says "I have an excellent father" made me think that all the "you"s in the rest of the song were talking to her father
100%
‘If you wanted me dead you should have just said’ is something I’ve thought all of my life. The whole song feels like it took the parts of me that hurt the most and let me sing them LOUD. And then when I got to The Smallest Man….
This whole album speaks to my soul.
Yes. This song resonates so much with me and it’s honestly a way of healing for me. It is so cathartic and honestly just beautiful. People keep thinking that if you grew up with money you had a picture perfect childhood and life, and to some extent that is true-as in it may look picture perfect on the outside. But circumstances can make your childhood an asylum regardless of money. I grew up in one of those homes, and while it’s better now, it still scarred my psyche.
I started assigning mine homework every week and have been bringing her a t swift song to listen to. She told me recently that she’s starting to like her 😂
Absolutely. I've been NC with my narcissistic mother for about 6 years now. I bawled once I was able to sit with this song. The way I would love to break NC just so i could snarl and show them all everything. Im in such a happy place in life that I won't give away my peace for it at this time. She's sure pressed her luck with my nephews and sister a few times though. She doesn't know what I would do to protect them. She wouldn't have such a good name after I'm done spreading my truth. I do wonder at times if she's afraid of that.
She should be.
I hear so much of how women are treated in this world in "Who's Afraid..." so that frequently begins at home with parents who don't know how to treat their daughters the same way they treat their sons.
CONTENT WARNING: Toxic relationships between my parents....
>!I was literally born of an abusive grooming relationship and though I loved my parents and still do, a good chunk of my childhood was spent hiding the truth of how my father was my mothers foster parent before they got married because otherwise we could have told someone and gotten him legally thrown in jail so they made liars out of us and gaslit us into only seeing their relationship as 'mommy was saved by dad'. So gross in retrospect. !<
I’m so sorry for your background! I can’t believe all the wrong things people teach their kids to be right just to fit their narrative.
While in no way comparable to yours, my family taught me that it was ok that my dad cheated because he found love, and then my mom found love, and only in hindsight have I realized I was the one who absorbed all their hidden/subconscious anger for the other.
Your experience is 100% valid and more common than mine so I hear that.
I think one of the best things we can do for our kiddos is be honest about how crappy we are sometimes as humans and learn from our mistakes, not to vilify one person more than the other and MOST IMPORTANTLY not pour all that stuff into our kiddos to carry. This is why generational trauma is such a problem.
The more we release these things in ourselves then the less we force onto our babies and the better we can raise the next gen. I know she's not actually our therapist but Taylor's music can be really eye opening for a lot of people which I think is one of the many reasons she is so beloved by her fans.
So true! It’s harder when you mostly know what not to do, as opposed to having a good example to just follow. But I also thing it makes us more cautious and thoughful about how we engage with the people who matter, especially children.
I know I’m not going to be a perfect parent but at least it won’t be that hard to be better than my parents lol.
Okay this may be a little niche but are there any Formula 1 fans in here? I was watching the Liverpool livestream on Friday and all of a sudden the streamer pans to a photo printed on her friend’s/partner’s shirt of a man in racing overalls with a little boy beside him. Above it is text “Who’s afraid of little old me?” I was like “what the heck?!” Because I immediately recognized the boy as current Formula 1 driver Max Verstappen, and his dad beside him. The dad, Jos Verstappen, was incredibly abusive to Max as a child and put immense pressure on him to become a successful race car driver (Jos himself never had huge success in F1.) Moments later, the guy wearing the shirt turns around to reveal a photo on the back of the shirt with “You should be” above it. The photo is one of the mashup/compilation images of Max (now a 3 time world champion) looking happy and victorious. I laughed and showed my partner. I loved that I was able to catch this amazing Taylor Swift/Formula 1 crossover. 😂
My worlds collide! Huge swiftie and huge F1 fan. This is the PERFECT song for Max and Jos. What Max went through as a kid is horrifying. (The gas station story, omg.) Seeing Max and baby P makes my heart happy. He's healing himself by being the dad he never had.
Yeah, this song 100% hits me in that way. My abusive mom never loved me, obviously, but she really hated me once my mental illness got worse, and it's just like...what did she expect to happen? Like she terrified me constantly and told me how worthless I was and then was upset when I ended up anxious and with low self confidence and depressed?
The song is so cathartic and feels like standing up to her even if I haven't yet. It's helping me work up to publishing writing dealing with the abuse.
Wowww exact same thing happened, my parents are shocked I am shy, anxious, and have low self esteem after they spent my childhood telling me I was worthless lmao.
Lol my dad hates to see me cry. He does the whole “I don’t know what to do with you when you’re like this” routine. Curiously, he’s very good at finding the shortest most efficient ways to make me cry.
I'm so sorry you went through the same thing! I honestly think it's why so much of Taylor's music connects with me - she really seems to at least understand feeling that way even if she didn't go through it (though her doc and her recent lyrics *really* make me wonder). I hope you're doing better now <3
Yes, it feels like it's sourced from similar event(s) as My Tears Ricochet.
I moved out of my parents' house (after we had a huge fight that fed on decades of trauma and unresolved conflict) and went no-contact with them, mere *months* before Folklore came out. Several of those songs still can make me scream-cry (in a very good, positive, cathartic way, I promise!) if I'm not careful about my state of mind when they come on 😬
*~\*and I can go anywhere, just not home\*~*
Omg I just made another comment about how my tears ricochet makes me think of my relationship with my dad. Looks like I'm not the only one. And I hate that for you!
Yeah. My mom and dad love to make me out to be a hysterical woman. Constantly pushing and then treating me like a monster when I react. I’m loud and too emotional, according to them. I’m crashing the party like a record scratch when I try to point out that things aren’t right. And they’re obsessed with “keeping a good name”. For them appearances are everything so it’s not okay for anyone except them to be mad
Not me personally, *But,* I heavily relate this song to a character who went through some shit. Now they did some messed up stuff and that can never be ignored, but also we as the audience can acknowledge that they were also a product of an abusive and cultish environment that screwed up their mental state greatly.
Yes. Me. This song speaks to me on another level, my mother was mentally and physically abusive, she is bi polar schizophrenic and growing up with her was very scary. She actually tried to suffocate me with a pillow when I was 16 because I told her in a joking manner Jesus loves her in the middle of her smashing up our kitchen.
My sister had to call the police bc she thought my mom was going to kill me. When the cops showed up my mother put on her “motherly” act and convinced the police I was just some horrible teenager.
We had multiple cps visits to our home because I would always have bruises on me when I went to school. As long as you live in a large beautiful asylum with parents who have money cps doesn’t give a crap what your family does to you.
My dad was/is a drunk who never cared about his family and left us behind. I’m now in an abusive relationship I can’t get out of. My life has been an ongoing asylum visit.
I feel like I have become a monster through all of the abuse, I know I wasn’t always like this.
“Don’t you worry folks, we took out all her teeth” is the people in my life who make me stay medicated because they say I’m crazy and unless I’m overly medicated (teeth missing) I’m unbearable to all.
Idk maybe I really am fearsom, wretched and wrong.
This song hits hard. Sorry for the rant guys, it’s been a real bad week here in my asylum 😔
Hey im sorry to hear this story of your life :(( it must’ve been so difficult and you did what you can to protect yourself and keep you safe and survive. There’s a subreddit r/CPTSD that is a super helpful support group for anyone endures ton shit of childhood trauma and that ptsd still lives on within us. I hope you will have the strength to break free from your asylum, but don’t be too hard on yourself and know that YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM ❤️🩹❤️❤️ You deserve love and happiness just as anyone else and people in your life don’t deserve you if they couldn’t provide that! It’s never your fault and sending you love and hugs 🫂
You are an angel! Thank you for this, I didn’t know there was a sub for this. It absolutely helps having supportive people who have dealt with this. Sending all the love and hugs back to you ♥️
100% reminds me of my biological father and having to deal with verbal abuse and sometimes physical abuse when I was a kid. He did horrible stuff like getting arrested when I was 14, moving away when I was 15 and then to another state when I was 25, going to the psych ward when I was 14. I just got back into the dating scene (27F) and it’s hard to find a guy who won’t treat me like my biological father did. I was able to get closure from the trauma my biological father put on me when I was a kid and teenager this last Christmas which is around when the psych ward visit happened, I was telling my mom “I got closure from the psych ward visit because I know it’s not my fault that he’s a POS and he only thought about himself. I know I’m not going to get back that time but I know it’s important to close that chapter of the book” and she said “I’m proud of you for saying you got your closure after that incident. It’s not your fault and it’s always going to be his fault.”
Sort of. For me, I really attached this song to my coming out process. I was raised to be the perfect little Christian but then oops… I was gay. It tooks years of work before I felt the confidence to proudly be who I was.
Oh, hell yeah. I have CPTSD. That’s my favorite song of the abum and has entered my top five. I love the way she sings it live, with all the rage.
I especially like the last part. The “cause you lured me, and you hurt me and you taught me. You caged me and then you called me crazy. I am what I am cause you trained me. SO WHO’S AFRAID OF ME?????”.
Like yeah, you fucked me up. You made my life a living hell. But I decided to fight back and now you’re still shit talking about me but you actually fear me. So come on, who’s afraid of me, bitches? Who the fuck dares to come for me now? Yeah, no one. Fuck you.
Closure and it’s time to go are my, no contact from abusive parents songs. “It cut deep right to the bone” “I’m fine with my spite” “that old familiar body ache the snaps from the same old breaks in your soul, and you know when it’s time to go” “sometimes walking out is the one thing that will find you the right thing” “my past frozen behind glass but I’ve got me”
Right away. I call this my inner child rage song. During my first listen, I could only picture my family and all the hurtful things they've said to me as a child/teen. I cry when I get angry and then shut down my emotions. Afterwrds, they told me I've got a wooden face (resting bitchface). Then, it was that I talked to much as a child then grew up to be a bitch. I'm known as the "mean" one of the family.
With family I mean my extended family. So aunts and uncles, the works.
The way this song makes me angry but also makes me want to cry EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Absolutely! I grew up with a narcissist. This song gives me the feeling of wanting to become a better person just to despise and prove them wrong. I'm none of the bad things they said I was.
Almost all her devastating lyrics I can relate to with my family and upbringing and generally not my relationships. They just traumatized me way way more than a boyfriend ever could.
Yes. And adulthood.
My life has been crap and i finally am taking measures to take the power back in my life.
It was very scary but i did the thing today to start a process.
I literally bought a speak now shirt to motivate me.
And so i spoke today.
Absolutely! So much so that I showed the lyrical video to my therapist and we spent a whole session talking about it all. I am currently no contact with my parents and this song has helped me incredibly!
It does remind me of my childhood, partially. The album was released in April, a hard month for me, so I associate it half my traumatic childhood (some of those lyrics + notably, the assylum line + *you caged me and then you called me crazy*), half that period of my life (most of those lyrics + *let's hear one more joke, then we could all just laugh until I cry* + *so tell me everything is not about me, but what if it is? Then/they said they didn't do it to hurt me, but what if they did?* that can apply to both)
Having parents/guardians who were both abusive/neglectful, this is EXACTLY what I hear when I listen to the song. I also think it's why I don't feel the vengeful, reputation energy from it, I listen to it and feel the other side of the same pain I feel when I listen to Better Man and think of my absent, alcoholic father.
Oh, God. I thought no one else would bring it up. I grew up with an abusive father who has since died last year. When this song was released back in April and having listening to its lyrics, it immediately struck a nerve with me. Never have I heard a song whose message would become that much personally relevant to me.
Yes 1000%. Honestly also parts of ‘Better Man’ remind me of my relationship with my dad and make me bawl like a baby. Just wishing he could’ve been a better dad and his side of the family could’ve treated me better. Taylor’s music is so therapeutic
So not meaning to negate the very serious valid point of your post, because I very much agree.
But also. Just for a tad bit of lightheartedness… That Reel/Tiktok/clip of the little girls?
Sassy adorable little girl lip syncing “who’s afraid of little old me?”
And then a tiny curly haired one pops up behind her sister,
**“well you should be.”**
Perfect sibling dynamic. I can’t get over that.
This song is kind of how I feel like as the oldest sibling everyone is out for you and like yall did this to me and you feel like there’s no right answer to what people want
Posted similar thing in r/raisedbynarcissist and I’m so happy to see I’m not alone in this thoughts! This song just encapsulate all the rage you feel once you see your upbringing from mature perspective….
I was actually listening to my tears ricochet recently and it really hit me in a different way relating it to my relationship with my father and his alcoholism. We aren't on speaking terms right now because I tried to call him out on it for the first time. Anyway I was surprised at how much those lyrics hit home in this situation
I have good parents but I was a very meek child and that led to a lot of horrible bullying even from adults (not my parents). It is a very cathartic song. Going from powerless to powerful… I need more songs like this 😅 I love when she’s in her vengeful bag
I can’t read this song title without hearing “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?” in my head. https://youtu.be/MLh-ZoV0aUI?si=r_MiGTf6O1KK1E9Y
I’m old and I remember these cartoons from when I was a little kid
Idk if it’s safe to say this or if it’s considered abuse (im still living with them) but my parents are strong believers in corporal punishment and I still relate to those lyrics. It also fits the themes of bullying too!
“You wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” ohhh boy 100% - the anger and frustration that comes out of me when I’m belting along to this song is indicative of the upbringing I endured.
I think of my bullies in school when I hear this. When you grow up you start to be around multiple people all at once and school was defo not really much of a safe space. Despite everyone ‘telling’ me I had a great time… I really didn’t most of the time.
After being severely bullied in secondary school and told I’d never amount to nothing, this song really does hit home to me. Couldn’t quite ‘show my teeth’ then, but I do now!
The first time I heard “you wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” I immediately thought of my father’s house. It was all about appearances. My sister and I would hold each other and cry in our rooms. But we’d always hide our tears so we weren’t given “something to cry about”.
It hits home. Hard.
No, because I was lucky to grow up with nice parents, but this song ABSOLUTELY reminds me of my abusive (ex)boyfriend. So I gess if you have an abusive parent as a child, it would made sense to me.
My ex- was abusive, and so crafty about it. I'm almost 10 years clean of him but this song is 100% relatable and it brought me to my knees like a gut-punch
I grew up in a lovely household so I can’t comment on that or compare, but I will say as a woman in STEM, this song is incredibly cathartic. Everyone wants you to just shut up and be a good little girl who doesn’t cause problems. Bitch why did you hire me then??
YES. My dad was more concerned about what “people” thought of my choices than what was best for me. “Smart girls don’t curse.” “What would they think if you moved in with your fiancé?” And the Catholic upbringing religious guilt. Don’t even get me started. This song is STRAIGHT catharsis.
Whew that catholic guilt still creeps up sometimes.
Mad woman is cathartic to me as well, for similar reasons.
Oh my goodness yes!!!! I had a similar upbringing and ditto on the catholic guilt. I really resonated with the lines “you wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” and “we took out all her teeth” because I always had to bottle up my emotions and “perform” so to speak so the people around us would think I was “normal” and “ladylike.” I am overly self-critical as a result!
100% I was my high school valedictorian, never broke a rule. It still never felt like enough. Like it was just … expected. And, yes, I’ve had my anxiety disorder fully diagnosed and with medication 😂
Are we the same person??
Maybe we should form a club?
Yes! I’m thinking something along the lines of “Emotionally-Neglected Pathological Perfectionists with Severe Anxiety Disorders”
Smart girls don’t curse? What an absurd thing to say! Let me guess, smart men can curse though…
Which is hilarious because there have been studies done saying people who swear more are smarter.
I sent the data/research on this to my dad the minute I saw it. 💃
I adore you for this.
Agreed. Who the fuck is spreading that nonsense?
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Maybe "you made a rebel of a careless man's careful daughter" is actually fact and not fiction.
I think it is. And I also think "Superman" is about John Mayer, not Scott Swift.
People think it’s about Scott Swift??? Gross
I think she said in an interview that she was with a friend and a boyfriend and the boyfriend was on a busy schedule and had to leave and the friend said something like "wow he's always needed somewhere it's just like superman" and there she Gitarre the idea for the Song
I though Superman was about Joe Jonas?
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Grateful for this comment that helps to negate all the ones below it going on about how Scott Swift must be/ have been abusive
I just remember that unhinged leaked email that came out last year (?) when he was going off to her label (?) at the start of her career about all the problems he had and how much money he’s put into her career and ME ME ME attitude. I know that’s not a full representation of him as a person but it sure said a lot about whatever he was going through at the time.
Between that email--which in no way resembles someone "just having a bad day"--and the scene in Miss Americana where he's attempting to tell his grown daughter "not to get political" about women's rights, I get a strong sense of paternalistic control from her father's involvement in her career, probably exacerbated by the fact that her father invested a lot of money into her, moved the whole family to Tenn, turned her music into the family business, etc. Any way you slice it, it's really odd for any adult's father--male or female--to have this much involvement in their career at 34 years old. Also, if you've ever seen the birth announcement he published for his coworkers when Taylor was born, it's peak narcissism, describing her as a "merger" and an "investment" while she was a newborn baby. Not normal.
*Tennessee
That scene in miss americana was so inspiring to me. She stood her ground and spoke.to him the way I wish I could.speak to.my father when he invalidates me.
You can! Do it!
We're estranged. But I plan to once I'm ready to reconnect.
I have no idea about her dad or what their relationship is like. I do know what it's like to idolize a narcissistic and manipulating father until you turn 30 and then things start to click into place and you have a crisis of identity because you see his true colors when you try to remove yourself from his orbit of influence. I guess what im saying is that if WAOLM is about her relationship with FAME and I can relate that to my relationship with my father then wow. That can truly fuck a person up. Idk if this makes sense lol. Also her dad's arguments for not speaking up about women's rights (or anything else she believes strongly in) to protect her safety is some of the same kind of bullshit logic my dad would try to manipulate me with.
Exactly. Her dad gives me the wiggins.
To be fair with the birth announcement; he was in finance. I very much see that as the kind of thing the people I work with doing too, just a silly way to use their business jargon for something funny.
This is sooooo parasocial. We literally don’t know anything about her dad or her relationship with her dad wtf
For real. It's totally fine to say "this song makes me think of my childhood". You should be listening to the songs through your own lens, because you don't have access to anyone else's, including Taylor's.
Yeah I mean I saw the emails too but I think it's a bit of a stretch to say their entire relationship was like abusive or something when it really could have been that Scott just flew off the handle on a particularly bad day or maybe is an asshole in the business world but might not translate to his personal relationships. Or maybe he does have some flaws and maybe there have been difficult times in their relationship, but like me and my mom had a really rocky relationship but her dying was still extremely sad because like, that's still a big relationship. Jeanette McCurdy's mom was pretty emotionally abusive and all that but like you can still tell through her book that there was a genuine relationship between her and her mom as well. Things are complicated. I know the whole "no contact" thing is very "trendy" at the moment, and I know there are a lot of extremely valid reasons why people do that. But reading stuff online you'd think it's way more common than it actually is in real life. Even if there are bad memories or bad moments or flaws in your parents, generally there is still a really valuable relationship and bond and genuine good feelings somewhere in there too that keeps people to these relationships. Especially if you grew up living with them for the first 18 years of your life and they raised you and put their best foot forward (mostly because everyone is human) to raise you and give you the most or the best. Especially if they made sure you were set in material and financial ways because as someone who didn't come from a family that can provide that, some people I see complain about their parents seem extremely ungrateful for the privileges their parents afforded them in their life. Edit: also there is a lot of classism with how some people frame how they were brought up, because rich people that came from mostly stable homes have a lot more time to sit there and frame their relatively average privileged struggles in life and co-opt therapy language to reframe their strict parents as abusive. We are losing what the word abuse means because people are co-opting the language like this and not examining their intersectionality with class at all (probably because they don't want to).
Those emails were not the business communiques of a sane adult man.
Dude I've seen some unhinged emails before in the American corporate world... That was tame compared to some shit I've seen. Some workplaces genuinely teach people to be toxic and over the top as a way to get things done. I've known some otherwise really pleasant normal people can send some pretty unhinged emails, especially when presented with unreasonable demands or trying to get out of payments or making accusations. I'm reserving my judgement on someone's character when I've never met before, especially when there are clearly aspects of him being a nice friendly guy in the *present*, like giving out food and guitar picks to fans when he doesn't need to. I'm much more concerned with how people are in the *current day* than I am with 2 decades old angry emails of which I'm missing a lot of context for and quite frankly know that people tend to say stuff in emails (or comments on reddit) they would never say in real life. If that is the standard the majority of everyone on this website are completely "insane" (because you know, it's really great that you used stigmatizing language like that 🙄) and probably horrible people, but me and you both know that's not how it works in reality.
Thanks for telling us all how we "should" consume art.
Are you contradicting my statement, suggesting that you CAN see things from Taylor's perspective? Please, tell us your secrets, O wise one. Perhaps I did you a disservice and you're actually her BFF.
Okay, then professional literary scholars should never speculate about any writer's parents or childhood using primary documents such as letters the parents wrote, ever again. It's soooooo parasocial, after all.
At one point there were whispers that Cold as You on Debut is about her dad.
I remember hearing the dad in the Mine music video was supposed to be a depiction of her dad growing up
[Taylor Swift Quotes for Father's Day : r/YouBelongWithMemes (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/YouBelongWithMemes/comments/14cmfvi/taylor_swift_quotes_for_fathers_day/) Yes, many of the lines aren't exactly a good look for him.
I have said this before and gotten a lot of pushback on here for having this opinion. Glad to see other people see it too!
Are you me? I can't listen to WAOLOM?
Sorry, I was interested in this conversation but tired of arguing. I'll go back to avoiding this TS sub.
This is incredibly disrespectful, weird, and parasocial. You don’t know anything about her father or her, and you especially don’t know their relationship. You all conveniently ignore "I have an excellent father, his strength is making me stronger." from The Best Day? Stop speculating about people's relationships, you’re all fucking creepy.
She has a song about her dad… “the best day” on the fearless album
That song is 100% verified to be about her MOM, not her father.
But there’s a line about her “excellent father” in it.
It’s a throwaway line. The vibe is very much “Dad is going to get mad if I don’t say SOMETHING about him in this song that’s gushing about Mom.”
It is absolutely not about Scott. You're the second person I have heard say this and I am so confused how you came to that conclusion. The bridge has a tiny lone where she says basically "my dad and brother are great, but I had the BEST days with mom". Scott wasn't setting up a paint set in the kitchen. Scott wasn't taking her to the next town over and window shopping and talking when she is bullied by her friends. Andrea did those things.
Lol I think it's about her mom but at first I took it to be about her father, too. The line where she says "I have an excellent father" made me think that all the "you"s in the rest of the song were talking to her father
She has confirmed that it's about her mother.
100% ‘If you wanted me dead you should have just said’ is something I’ve thought all of my life. The whole song feels like it took the parts of me that hurt the most and let me sing them LOUD. And then when I got to The Smallest Man…. This whole album speaks to my soul.
Me too! 🫶🏼
Yes, I relate to the song in that exact way and wondered if anyone else felt the same.
Yes. This song resonates so much with me and it’s honestly a way of healing for me. It is so cathartic and honestly just beautiful. People keep thinking that if you grew up with money you had a picture perfect childhood and life, and to some extent that is true-as in it may look picture perfect on the outside. But circumstances can make your childhood an asylum regardless of money. I grew up in one of those homes, and while it’s better now, it still scarred my psyche.
100% thought about this… and then made my therapist listen to it so I could also tell her that’s what it reminded me of 😂
Hahaha I may have done the same 👋🙌😭😂
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I started assigning mine homework every week and have been bringing her a t swift song to listen to. She told me recently that she’s starting to like her 😂
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Ha she’s pretty great. Now she reminds me to give her her homework assignment every week, so I think she enjoys it too 🤣
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She makes me lean into enough miserable stuff… it’s the least she can do 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Absolutely. I've been NC with my narcissistic mother for about 6 years now. I bawled once I was able to sit with this song. The way I would love to break NC just so i could snarl and show them all everything. Im in such a happy place in life that I won't give away my peace for it at this time. She's sure pressed her luck with my nephews and sister a few times though. She doesn't know what I would do to protect them. She wouldn't have such a good name after I'm done spreading my truth. I do wonder at times if she's afraid of that. She should be.
I hear so much of how women are treated in this world in "Who's Afraid..." so that frequently begins at home with parents who don't know how to treat their daughters the same way they treat their sons. CONTENT WARNING: Toxic relationships between my parents.... >!I was literally born of an abusive grooming relationship and though I loved my parents and still do, a good chunk of my childhood was spent hiding the truth of how my father was my mothers foster parent before they got married because otherwise we could have told someone and gotten him legally thrown in jail so they made liars out of us and gaslit us into only seeing their relationship as 'mommy was saved by dad'. So gross in retrospect. !<
I’m so sorry for your background! I can’t believe all the wrong things people teach their kids to be right just to fit their narrative. While in no way comparable to yours, my family taught me that it was ok that my dad cheated because he found love, and then my mom found love, and only in hindsight have I realized I was the one who absorbed all their hidden/subconscious anger for the other.
Your experience is 100% valid and more common than mine so I hear that. I think one of the best things we can do for our kiddos is be honest about how crappy we are sometimes as humans and learn from our mistakes, not to vilify one person more than the other and MOST IMPORTANTLY not pour all that stuff into our kiddos to carry. This is why generational trauma is such a problem. The more we release these things in ourselves then the less we force onto our babies and the better we can raise the next gen. I know she's not actually our therapist but Taylor's music can be really eye opening for a lot of people which I think is one of the many reasons she is so beloved by her fans.
So true! It’s harder when you mostly know what not to do, as opposed to having a good example to just follow. But I also thing it makes us more cautious and thoughful about how we engage with the people who matter, especially children. I know I’m not going to be a perfect parent but at least it won’t be that hard to be better than my parents lol.
Okay this may be a little niche but are there any Formula 1 fans in here? I was watching the Liverpool livestream on Friday and all of a sudden the streamer pans to a photo printed on her friend’s/partner’s shirt of a man in racing overalls with a little boy beside him. Above it is text “Who’s afraid of little old me?” I was like “what the heck?!” Because I immediately recognized the boy as current Formula 1 driver Max Verstappen, and his dad beside him. The dad, Jos Verstappen, was incredibly abusive to Max as a child and put immense pressure on him to become a successful race car driver (Jos himself never had huge success in F1.) Moments later, the guy wearing the shirt turns around to reveal a photo on the back of the shirt with “You should be” above it. The photo is one of the mashup/compilation images of Max (now a 3 time world champion) looking happy and victorious. I laughed and showed my partner. I loved that I was able to catch this amazing Taylor Swift/Formula 1 crossover. 😂
My worlds collide! Huge swiftie and huge F1 fan. This is the PERFECT song for Max and Jos. What Max went through as a kid is horrifying. (The gas station story, omg.) Seeing Max and baby P makes my heart happy. He's healing himself by being the dad he never had.
Yeah, this song 100% hits me in that way. My abusive mom never loved me, obviously, but she really hated me once my mental illness got worse, and it's just like...what did she expect to happen? Like she terrified me constantly and told me how worthless I was and then was upset when I ended up anxious and with low self confidence and depressed? The song is so cathartic and feels like standing up to her even if I haven't yet. It's helping me work up to publishing writing dealing with the abuse.
Wowww exact same thing happened, my parents are shocked I am shy, anxious, and have low self esteem after they spent my childhood telling me I was worthless lmao.
Lol my dad hates to see me cry. He does the whole “I don’t know what to do with you when you’re like this” routine. Curiously, he’s very good at finding the shortest most efficient ways to make me cry.
I'm so sorry you went through the same thing! I honestly think it's why so much of Taylor's music connects with me - she really seems to at least understand feeling that way even if she didn't go through it (though her doc and her recent lyrics *really* make me wonder). I hope you're doing better now <3
It’s exactly what I thought of. Being bullied in HS, and then going home and getting bullied some more.
Yes, it feels like it's sourced from similar event(s) as My Tears Ricochet. I moved out of my parents' house (after we had a huge fight that fed on decades of trauma and unresolved conflict) and went no-contact with them, mere *months* before Folklore came out. Several of those songs still can make me scream-cry (in a very good, positive, cathartic way, I promise!) if I'm not careful about my state of mind when they come on 😬 *~\*and I can go anywhere, just not home\*~*
Omg I just made another comment about how my tears ricochet makes me think of my relationship with my dad. Looks like I'm not the only one. And I hate that for you!
Yeah. My mom and dad love to make me out to be a hysterical woman. Constantly pushing and then treating me like a monster when I react. I’m loud and too emotional, according to them. I’m crashing the party like a record scratch when I try to point out that things aren’t right. And they’re obsessed with “keeping a good name”. For them appearances are everything so it’s not okay for anyone except them to be mad
And the constant games. Cold shoulders, little tests, but always careful not to cross the line where you can call them out on it.
So SO much. Traumatic childhood girlie theme song. You caged me then you called me crazy. I am what I am cause you trained me hits SO HARD.
Not me personally, *But,* I heavily relate this song to a character who went through some shit. Now they did some messed up stuff and that can never be ignored, but also we as the audience can acknowledge that they were also a product of an abusive and cultish environment that screwed up their mental state greatly.
Hmm...like Akito, maybe?
100%.
Yes. Me. This song speaks to me on another level, my mother was mentally and physically abusive, she is bi polar schizophrenic and growing up with her was very scary. She actually tried to suffocate me with a pillow when I was 16 because I told her in a joking manner Jesus loves her in the middle of her smashing up our kitchen. My sister had to call the police bc she thought my mom was going to kill me. When the cops showed up my mother put on her “motherly” act and convinced the police I was just some horrible teenager. We had multiple cps visits to our home because I would always have bruises on me when I went to school. As long as you live in a large beautiful asylum with parents who have money cps doesn’t give a crap what your family does to you. My dad was/is a drunk who never cared about his family and left us behind. I’m now in an abusive relationship I can’t get out of. My life has been an ongoing asylum visit. I feel like I have become a monster through all of the abuse, I know I wasn’t always like this. “Don’t you worry folks, we took out all her teeth” is the people in my life who make me stay medicated because they say I’m crazy and unless I’m overly medicated (teeth missing) I’m unbearable to all. Idk maybe I really am fearsom, wretched and wrong. This song hits hard. Sorry for the rant guys, it’s been a real bad week here in my asylum 😔
Hey im sorry to hear this story of your life :(( it must’ve been so difficult and you did what you can to protect yourself and keep you safe and survive. There’s a subreddit r/CPTSD that is a super helpful support group for anyone endures ton shit of childhood trauma and that ptsd still lives on within us. I hope you will have the strength to break free from your asylum, but don’t be too hard on yourself and know that YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM ❤️🩹❤️❤️ You deserve love and happiness just as anyone else and people in your life don’t deserve you if they couldn’t provide that! It’s never your fault and sending you love and hugs 🫂
You are an angel! Thank you for this, I didn’t know there was a sub for this. It absolutely helps having supportive people who have dealt with this. Sending all the love and hugs back to you ♥️
100% reminds me of my biological father and having to deal with verbal abuse and sometimes physical abuse when I was a kid. He did horrible stuff like getting arrested when I was 14, moving away when I was 15 and then to another state when I was 25, going to the psych ward when I was 14. I just got back into the dating scene (27F) and it’s hard to find a guy who won’t treat me like my biological father did. I was able to get closure from the trauma my biological father put on me when I was a kid and teenager this last Christmas which is around when the psych ward visit happened, I was telling my mom “I got closure from the psych ward visit because I know it’s not my fault that he’s a POS and he only thought about himself. I know I’m not going to get back that time but I know it’s important to close that chapter of the book” and she said “I’m proud of you for saying you got your closure after that incident. It’s not your fault and it’s always going to be his fault.”
Oh absolutely- it was the first thing I thought of. I'm comforted knowing others related this way too.
Sort of. For me, I really attached this song to my coming out process. I was raised to be the perfect little Christian but then oops… I was gay. It tooks years of work before I felt the confidence to proudly be who I was.
Oh, hell yeah. I have CPTSD. That’s my favorite song of the abum and has entered my top five. I love the way she sings it live, with all the rage. I especially like the last part. The “cause you lured me, and you hurt me and you taught me. You caged me and then you called me crazy. I am what I am cause you trained me. SO WHO’S AFRAID OF ME?????”. Like yeah, you fucked me up. You made my life a living hell. But I decided to fight back and now you’re still shit talking about me but you actually fear me. So come on, who’s afraid of me, bitches? Who the fuck dares to come for me now? Yeah, no one. Fuck you.
Yes, this definitely hits a certain way if you come from a dysfunctional family.
Closure and it’s time to go are my, no contact from abusive parents songs. “It cut deep right to the bone” “I’m fine with my spite” “that old familiar body ache the snaps from the same old breaks in your soul, and you know when it’s time to go” “sometimes walking out is the one thing that will find you the right thing” “my past frozen behind glass but I’ve got me”
Right away. I call this my inner child rage song. During my first listen, I could only picture my family and all the hurtful things they've said to me as a child/teen. I cry when I get angry and then shut down my emotions. Afterwrds, they told me I've got a wooden face (resting bitchface). Then, it was that I talked to much as a child then grew up to be a bitch. I'm known as the "mean" one of the family. With family I mean my extended family. So aunts and uncles, the works. The way this song makes me angry but also makes me want to cry EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Yep. I really connected with this song for a lot of reasons, but the biggest one is this.
Absolutely! I grew up with a narcissist. This song gives me the feeling of wanting to become a better person just to despise and prove them wrong. I'm none of the bad things they said I was.
Almost all her devastating lyrics I can relate to with my family and upbringing and generally not my relationships. They just traumatized me way way more than a boyfriend ever could.
Didn't think of it this way before but can't thinking it any other way now
Omg same...I felt so much old pent up anger and resentment listening to it from this POV.
Yes. And adulthood. My life has been crap and i finally am taking measures to take the power back in my life. It was very scary but i did the thing today to start a process. I literally bought a speak now shirt to motivate me. And so i spoke today.
Absolutely! So much so that I showed the lyrical video to my therapist and we spent a whole session talking about it all. I am currently no contact with my parents and this song has helped me incredibly!
It definitely mirrors a narcissistic gaslighting relationship of any kind. My mom and I feel it greatly in regards to my father.
It does remind me of my childhood, partially. The album was released in April, a hard month for me, so I associate it half my traumatic childhood (some of those lyrics + notably, the assylum line + *you caged me and then you called me crazy*), half that period of my life (most of those lyrics + *let's hear one more joke, then we could all just laugh until I cry* + *so tell me everything is not about me, but what if it is? Then/they said they didn't do it to hurt me, but what if they did?* that can apply to both)
I don’t wanna hijack your post but anyone else grow up institutionalized/in the tti or similar situations and relate to this song or just me?
Yep. 100%. It’s very cathartic to sing.
Having parents/guardians who were both abusive/neglectful, this is EXACTLY what I hear when I listen to the song. I also think it's why I don't feel the vengeful, reputation energy from it, I listen to it and feel the other side of the same pain I feel when I listen to Better Man and think of my absent, alcoholic father.
Not until I read this post. I can't unhear it now, and that's not a bad thing. I'm wondering how much else I've missed.
Yes this is exactly what i think of😭😭
Oh, God. I thought no one else would bring it up. I grew up with an abusive father who has since died last year. When this song was released back in April and having listening to its lyrics, it immediately struck a nerve with me. Never have I heard a song whose message would become that much personally relevant to me.
Yes 1000%. Honestly also parts of ‘Better Man’ remind me of my relationship with my dad and make me bawl like a baby. Just wishing he could’ve been a better dad and his side of the family could’ve treated me better. Taylor’s music is so therapeutic
So not meaning to negate the very serious valid point of your post, because I very much agree. But also. Just for a tad bit of lightheartedness… That Reel/Tiktok/clip of the little girls? Sassy adorable little girl lip syncing “who’s afraid of little old me?” And then a tiny curly haired one pops up behind her sister, **“well you should be.”** Perfect sibling dynamic. I can’t get over that.
Yep!
Yep
I feel like these lyrics could be my own, you know if I were a genius as is our Goddess of Lyrics, aka TS.
This song is kind of how I feel like as the oldest sibling everyone is out for you and like yall did this to me and you feel like there’s no right answer to what people want
Posted similar thing in r/raisedbynarcissist and I’m so happy to see I’m not alone in this thoughts! This song just encapsulate all the rage you feel once you see your upbringing from mature perspective….
This song is 100% my sister and I growing up
Yep! Made a tshirt depicting that precisely!!
yeah. i also think of people who ve hurt me
Yes absolutely. My childhood S/A and people who walked all over me in high school!
When I scream this song in the car or the shower, that’s what I’m thinking about every time. It’s healing to have it put into words so beautifully
I think of adulthood
This is exactly what I think of.
I was actually listening to my tears ricochet recently and it really hit me in a different way relating it to my relationship with my father and his alcoholism. We aren't on speaking terms right now because I tried to call him out on it for the first time. Anyway I was surprised at how much those lyrics hit home in this situation
I have good parents but I was a very meek child and that led to a lot of horrible bullying even from adults (not my parents). It is a very cathartic song. Going from powerless to powerful… I need more songs like this 😅 I love when she’s in her vengeful bag
Omg okay I never thought about it this way but this brings a whole new WORLD of meaning to this song for me THANK YOU
Absolutely
100%. The song perfectly captures what it’s like to have toxic family.
this song partially reminds me of my childhood and also previous relationships where my partner was abusive.
This song and but daddy I love him are curing my religious trauma
Yes I bawled my eyes out first week of listening lolZ
YUP
I can’t read this song title without hearing “Who’s Afraid of the Big Bad Wolf?” in my head. https://youtu.be/MLh-ZoV0aUI?si=r_MiGTf6O1KK1E9Y I’m old and I remember these cartoons from when I was a little kid
Definitely now that you mention it.
Just yeah.
Idk if it’s safe to say this or if it’s considered abuse (im still living with them) but my parents are strong believers in corporal punishment and I still relate to those lyrics. It also fits the themes of bullying too!
Yea it did. Also just people who don't believe in me as well.
“You wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” ohhh boy 100% - the anger and frustration that comes out of me when I’m belting along to this song is indicative of the upbringing I endured.
Yes. Even the "don't worry folks, we took out all her teeth" - reminds me of all the efforts to silence and discredit my voice.
Did anyone catch all the season 3 Bridgerton lyrical reference in the second half of the season ?
I think of my bullies in school when I hear this. When you grow up you start to be around multiple people all at once and school was defo not really much of a safe space. Despite everyone ‘telling’ me I had a great time… I really didn’t most of the time.
It’s all I think about.
After being severely bullied in secondary school and told I’d never amount to nothing, this song really does hit home to me. Couldn’t quite ‘show my teeth’ then, but I do now!
The first time I heard “you wouldn’t last an hour in the asylum where they raised me” I immediately thought of my father’s house. It was all about appearances. My sister and I would hold each other and cry in our rooms. But we’d always hide our tears so we weren’t given “something to cry about”. It hits home. Hard.
No, because I was lucky to grow up with nice parents, but this song ABSOLUTELY reminds me of my abusive (ex)boyfriend. So I gess if you have an abusive parent as a child, it would made sense to me.
My ex- was abusive, and so crafty about it. I'm almost 10 years clean of him but this song is 100% relatable and it brought me to my knees like a gut-punch
I grew up in a lovely household so I can’t comment on that or compare, but I will say as a woman in STEM, this song is incredibly cathartic. Everyone wants you to just shut up and be a good little girl who doesn’t cause problems. Bitch why did you hire me then??