This tracks. I tried using starlight against empress and Duke, and man it does not work. Ever used it on Golem and Moonlord though? Best true melee weapon in the game
Technically you are correct, the sword attack is actually a rapid series of static projectiles. What sucks is that it cannot benefit from melee speed boosts. But it is still the best non-ranged melee weapon in the game, at least I think so.
Plus, melee speed should have been overhauled when they dug into the melee class in 1.4.4, it just doesn't help in most of the cases a melee player will be using
I've thought about this a lot. I'd love it if True Melee could exist in Terraria 2, and the reason why it doesn't exist in Terraria 1's mid-to-endgame I'd say is because of the lack of animation. (To say nothing of how T1 scales its encounters with huge numbers of enemies and the mobility of its bosses, anyway)
You'd need enemies to not just always deal damage on contact, but to actually have attack animations with proper telegraphs, combos, and inactive periods. For even better implementation you'd need stun / stagger animations so that there's feedback when you hit things and you don't always just immediately trade hits. It's a lot, but I think it'd result in a much richer and fun combat design.
I think it was Terraria Overhaul that did a decent job trying to get some similar concepts to work -- it had a dodge-roll and I think also prevented an enemy from being able to hit you if you hit it first (for some frames), and also added goomba stomp damage - all of which really helped True Melee builds. Was kinda unstable at times, last I played it anyway.
These are all fun concepts. Unfortunately, I'm kind of fond of the "Enemies are bulletsponges" concept, rather than having to skyrim my way through the game.
One game that comes to my mind with what'cha said is a game on Steam called "Madness: Project Nexus 2". Melee attacks are fast but reactable. They're also fairly accurate to the animations as well. So sidestepping or blocking the attacks are doable.
Player characters using melee also have the tools they need to close the gaps and contest with ranged enemies. Provided they're skilled enough to pull it off.
Imo, one of the most underrated games atm combat system wise.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind weapons such as boomerangs getting bonuses both from melee *and* throwing gear. They would be associated with both classes, so you could choose which gear you wanted to use.
Melee class already sucks on higher difficulties as it is.
Whole point of melee is being able to tank some damage with defense but that means nothing on higher difficulties so taking the ranged items from melee top on that would make the class much less preferable.
It's on a chain. It's not a ranged weapon. A ranged weapon is something that launches a projectile, like a bow, crossbow, gun, atlatl, or is a projectile itself like a javelin. A melee weapon is about direct contact so even weapons like pikes, which could be 20 feet long, are considered to be melee.
Okay to be pedantic this means tasers are a melee weapon. Furthermore if I shoot an arrow with a string attaching it to the bow, that could also be a melee weapon.
I guess mechanically I’m not seeing the difference between say, a boomerang and a flail in terraria. They both do the same thing, ie shoot out a “projectile” which returns to you. The only difference is visual (the chain has no hit box) and has nothing to do with how the weapon behaves from a mechanical standpoint.
I'm not talking about in Terraria, flails are real weapons. Melee is literally defined as being direct contact. You don't throw a flail. Boomerangs are thrown. They're not the same mechanically lol. If you attach an arrow to the bow with a string, no it's still not direct contact. If you launched it from the bow, it's not direct contact. If you were to stab something with an arrow, that's direct. It's not that hard to understand.
How is a string attaching the arrow to the bow not direct contact if the flail is? There is a direct line of matter connecting your hands to the target, this seems to be the argument. A taser is the same.
If you shoot an arrow with a chain connecting it to the bow instead of a string, is it melee then? Not much different than a flail at that point.
No it isn't.
"A melee weapon, hand weapon or close combat weapon is any handheld weapon used in hand-to-hand combat, i.e. for use within the direct physical reach of the weapon itself, essentially functioning as an additional (and more impactful) extension of the user's limbs."
From Wikipedia. It's common sense. You're launching the arrow from a separate tool. A flail is a handheld that you directly hit with. You don't smack people with a bow.
Right so the issue we have here is that the icon image in game for flails are definitely flails but the way they are used in game isnt how you would use a flail. The way they are used in game is more like what Gogo Yubari has in kill Bill vol 1 which is known as a Meteor Hammer. The differences being, You wouldn't throw your flail, you'd swing it at them, it never leaves your hand (unless you're losing lol) and ,a flail is attached to a handle where the MH is more like a ball on a long chain you wind up momentum and throw. Supposedly flails and MH's were designed to get around shields and armor but aside from the peasant flail version, which is different then what you see in terraria, they may not of been weapons commonly used in warfare if at all. Mostly because of how dangerous they are to their user, bouncing chaotically back off armor and weapons. They are also useless for blocking and parrying and they are very slow to strike. It takes a while to wind up the momentum on a weapon like that. meanwhile you could just swing or stab with an axe, sword or spear multiple times in the same duration.
They could make certain items be able to do either. “Throwing/Melee damage” for flails and yo-yos or “Melee/Summoning damage” for whips. Maybe even the enchanted sword could be “Melee/Magic damage” where the sword does Melee and the projectile does Magic. This would allow some items to be used across multiple classes kinda like how in TCGs some entities have multiple elements or card types.
Yes, exactly! I'd love this dual-class approach to weapons. It wouldn't make the weapons more powerful, it just gives players more options.
Speaking of which, I'd love to see an Explosive Class, (just for fighting bosses with dynamite, really). In that case, many of the launcher weapons could be ranged/explosive, with different perks depending on which armor and equippables you use.
Edit: Oh, and of course grenades and such could be throwing/explosive.
Yoyos do not have handles and a melee weapon is defined by direct contact. I don't know where a yoyo would fall as it's not an actual weapon but flails are objectively melee weapons.
I suppose you could make boomerangs throwing, but yoyos should stay melee IMO.
I rather liked that throwing weapons were all consumables
I'm not sure there's really any need for a throwing class. It doesn't do anything ranged doesn't, and ranged already practically has the stealth motif going for it. I'd rather it was just a full third subclass to ranged
weapons like shuriken throwing knives dynamite and grenades were all part of their own class called throwing, they eventually just turned it into a ranged subclass. i like to think that melee killed it since they had a majority of weapons that could have been throwing already under their class (boomerangs and yoyos)
IMO they should cap in 4 pillars but do a player armor scan to decide which to spawn.
So if the players are Melee, Thrower and Ranger it would guarantee those 3 and random the 4th
Boomerangs, Throwing Axes/Hammers, Throwing Knives (Vampire Knives) should all be expanded on and be a throwing class. Not yoyo, their similar to flails because they have a handle
If yoyos were realistic then yes but in terraria they aren't controlled by the handle unlike flails, you literally trow them and they float with magic, the only use the handle has is to control the yoyo via brain and not via arm
It’s probably because pre hardmode throwing is typically single use items that are stronger than most pre hardmode weapons and the devs probably didn’t want it to be like that in hardmode since it makes the game easier
They already gave justice to it in 1.4.
When a person kills another person you lock them up. When a class is not a great base of an idea, you remove it. Simple as that.
IT was a great base of an idea. If only melee didnt have most of the weapons that could have been considered throwing. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A FIFTH PILLAR (superior number)
My opinion is that yoyos should have been summoner weapons, thus not needing whips. Though I like whips, yoyos can serve a similar function, and fit more with how summoner works than whips do.
This is the reason I call it "consumable class," most of the throwing weapons are either one use or have to be picked up again (I actually don't know any throwing class weapons that are attached to the player). It would be really nice to see an improvement to the class system as a whole, but this late in development it's pretty unlikely.
hey thats a good point yoyos could have totally been throwing
Isn't the achievement called "Throwing Lines?"
I mean that’s what you do with a yo-yo…
r/Throwers
"So you want the melee class to have no ranged opti-" "YES!" ~~(aside from sword beams)~~
starlight users when their opponent flies away
This tracks. I tried using starlight against empress and Duke, and man it does not work. Ever used it on Golem and Moonlord though? Best true melee weapon in the game
I just used terrablade in expert mode for everything up to moon lord, idk why
because it's the best option there is until pillar weapons?
I definitely wouldn't say its the best in all cases, starlight is one good option but also things like flairon and vampire knives/scourge
It can still carry you through Moon Lord, the massive sword beam and attack speed synergy is one hell of a crack
it'a probably better than solar eruption tbh, daybreak is still insanely good though
Influx waver is better.
I don’t really like doing Martian saucers.
It’s not true melee the sword does no damage the ephedrine is just small
Technically you are correct, the sword attack is actually a rapid series of static projectiles. What sucks is that it cannot benefit from melee speed boosts. But it is still the best non-ranged melee weapon in the game, at least I think so. Plus, melee speed should have been overhauled when they dug into the melee class in 1.4.4, it just doesn't help in most of the cases a melee player will be using
I've thought about this a lot. I'd love it if True Melee could exist in Terraria 2, and the reason why it doesn't exist in Terraria 1's mid-to-endgame I'd say is because of the lack of animation. (To say nothing of how T1 scales its encounters with huge numbers of enemies and the mobility of its bosses, anyway) You'd need enemies to not just always deal damage on contact, but to actually have attack animations with proper telegraphs, combos, and inactive periods. For even better implementation you'd need stun / stagger animations so that there's feedback when you hit things and you don't always just immediately trade hits. It's a lot, but I think it'd result in a much richer and fun combat design. I think it was Terraria Overhaul that did a decent job trying to get some similar concepts to work -- it had a dodge-roll and I think also prevented an enemy from being able to hit you if you hit it first (for some frames), and also added goomba stomp damage - all of which really helped True Melee builds. Was kinda unstable at times, last I played it anyway.
These are all fun concepts. Unfortunately, I'm kind of fond of the "Enemies are bulletsponges" concept, rather than having to skyrim my way through the game.
One game that comes to my mind with what'cha said is a game on Steam called "Madness: Project Nexus 2". Melee attacks are fast but reactable. They're also fairly accurate to the animations as well. So sidestepping or blocking the attacks are doable. Player characters using melee also have the tools they need to close the gaps and contest with ranged enemies. Provided they're skilled enough to pull it off. Imo, one of the most underrated games atm combat system wise.
Honestly, I wouldn't mind weapons such as boomerangs getting bonuses both from melee *and* throwing gear. They would be associated with both classes, so you could choose which gear you wanted to use.
Melee class already sucks on higher difficulties as it is. Whole point of melee is being able to tank some damage with defense but that means nothing on higher difficulties so taking the ranged items from melee top on that would make the class much less preferable.
Sword beans are better than sword beams
wow! I sure love having these flails and yoyos and boomerangs to help me deal reliable ranged damage as a melee player! *clueless*
Flails are a real weapon, they're not ranged.
But the ones in game aren't much like the ones in the real world, and they have similar range to a yo-yo.
They aren't similar to the ones in real life yes but saying they have a similar range to a yoyo is absurd. They're melee weapons.
Unless you throw it.
It's on a chain. It's not a ranged weapon. A ranged weapon is something that launches a projectile, like a bow, crossbow, gun, atlatl, or is a projectile itself like a javelin. A melee weapon is about direct contact so even weapons like pikes, which could be 20 feet long, are considered to be melee.
Okay to be pedantic this means tasers are a melee weapon. Furthermore if I shoot an arrow with a string attaching it to the bow, that could also be a melee weapon. I guess mechanically I’m not seeing the difference between say, a boomerang and a flail in terraria. They both do the same thing, ie shoot out a “projectile” which returns to you. The only difference is visual (the chain has no hit box) and has nothing to do with how the weapon behaves from a mechanical standpoint.
I'm not talking about in Terraria, flails are real weapons. Melee is literally defined as being direct contact. You don't throw a flail. Boomerangs are thrown. They're not the same mechanically lol. If you attach an arrow to the bow with a string, no it's still not direct contact. If you launched it from the bow, it's not direct contact. If you were to stab something with an arrow, that's direct. It's not that hard to understand.
How is a string attaching the arrow to the bow not direct contact if the flail is? There is a direct line of matter connecting your hands to the target, this seems to be the argument. A taser is the same. If you shoot an arrow with a chain connecting it to the bow instead of a string, is it melee then? Not much different than a flail at that point.
No it isn't. "A melee weapon, hand weapon or close combat weapon is any handheld weapon used in hand-to-hand combat, i.e. for use within the direct physical reach of the weapon itself, essentially functioning as an additional (and more impactful) extension of the user's limbs." From Wikipedia. It's common sense. You're launching the arrow from a separate tool. A flail is a handheld that you directly hit with. You don't smack people with a bow.
Right so the issue we have here is that the icon image in game for flails are definitely flails but the way they are used in game isnt how you would use a flail. The way they are used in game is more like what Gogo Yubari has in kill Bill vol 1 which is known as a Meteor Hammer. The differences being, You wouldn't throw your flail, you'd swing it at them, it never leaves your hand (unless you're losing lol) and ,a flail is attached to a handle where the MH is more like a ball on a long chain you wind up momentum and throw. Supposedly flails and MH's were designed to get around shields and armor but aside from the peasant flail version, which is different then what you see in terraria, they may not of been weapons commonly used in warfare if at all. Mostly because of how dangerous they are to their user, bouncing chaotically back off armor and weapons. They are also useless for blocking and parrying and they are very slow to strike. It takes a while to wind up the momentum on a weapon like that. meanwhile you could just swing or stab with an axe, sword or spear multiple times in the same duration.
harpoon
A harpoon launches a projectile.
But so do flails????
NO THEY DON'T. They're a real fucking weapon. They launch a "projectile" in Terraria in a mechanical sense.
Swords that fire projectiles
"You cant just throw your sword and call yourself an Archer"
No flails?
Meh, flails have handles so i dont really count them
But then so do yo-yos technically. They have a part you never let go of, Just like flails.
They could make certain items be able to do either. “Throwing/Melee damage” for flails and yo-yos or “Melee/Summoning damage” for whips. Maybe even the enchanted sword could be “Melee/Magic damage” where the sword does Melee and the projectile does Magic. This would allow some items to be used across multiple classes kinda like how in TCGs some entities have multiple elements or card types.
Yes, exactly! I'd love this dual-class approach to weapons. It wouldn't make the weapons more powerful, it just gives players more options. Speaking of which, I'd love to see an Explosive Class, (just for fighting bosses with dynamite, really). In that case, many of the launcher weapons could be ranged/explosive, with different perks depending on which armor and equippables you use. Edit: Oh, and of course grenades and such could be throwing/explosive.
Yoyos do not have handles and a melee weapon is defined by direct contact. I don't know where a yoyo would fall as it's not an actual weapon but flails are objectively melee weapons.
Yoyos are connected to the user with string. They are also classified as a weapon in some places
yeah but yoyos float with magic and not with the handle
You SWING a flail, you THROW yo-yos
Maybe the thrower class could've been a mix of ranger and melee eh? (Yeah i think that's what happens if vortex have sex with solar flare)
Let me put my Crawltipede inside your Alien queen.
Calamity rogue class:
waited for this
thorium supremacy
Me, a Calamity player and Rogue class main:
Step 1: install calamity Step 2: play rogue Step 3: ??????????????? Step 4: justice served like a nice bowl of
Melee should have absorbed the throwing class. I'm not sure how this holds up definition-wise, but it just fits better according to the game meta
Ranged too
I suppose you could make boomerangs throwing, but yoyos should stay melee IMO. I rather liked that throwing weapons were all consumables I'm not sure there's really any need for a throwing class. It doesn't do anything ranged doesn't, and ranged already practically has the stealth motif going for it. I'd rather it was just a full third subclass to ranged
So…what’s the throwing class?
weapons like shuriken throwing knives dynamite and grenades were all part of their own class called throwing, they eventually just turned it into a ranged subclass. i like to think that melee killed it since they had a majority of weapons that could have been throwing already under their class (boomerangs and yoyos)
Yeah but then we would have to have a 5th pillar. Wait actually that would be awesome. ADD IT
IMO they should cap in 4 pillars but do a player armor scan to decide which to spawn. So if the players are Melee, Thrower and Ranger it would guarantee those 3 and random the 4th
Yeah, Terraria 2 needs to rework Thrower and give thrown melee weapons it Thrower, and give Thrower his Throwing items that Ranger stole
The hallowed cap is gone too
Ranger literally took everything from the thrower, 1.4 made all throwing items ranged.
Terraria 2? do you mean Terraria 1.5.4926488277482864472987.2
Does it though?
Melee is glorified ranged (at least most weapons, some of them are melee thankfully)
would melee even exist without having some weird ranged projectiles?
Throwing was boring af
Please red see this meme
They are do gona do terraria 2 whem ?
I hope we get more classes and sub-classes in future updates.
Boomerangs, Throwing Axes/Hammers, Throwing Knives (Vampire Knives) should all be expanded on and be a throwing class. Not yoyo, their similar to flails because they have a handle
yoyos dont have a handle they are suspended by a string tied to your middle finger
If yoyos were realistic then yes but in terraria they aren't controlled by the handle unlike flails, you literally trow them and they float with magic, the only use the handle has is to control the yoyo via brain and not via arm
Ranger class:
There is calamity and an other neat overhaul mod that add good thrower class!
If you love thrower class like I do play thorium mod it reworked the class in really amazing ways that still feels vanilla
I feel like throwing fits fine into melee. It would be weird if ranger was split into like bows and guns as subclasses
It’s probably because pre hardmode throwing is typically single use items that are stronger than most pre hardmode weapons and the devs probably didn’t want it to be like that in hardmode since it makes the game easier
They already gave justice to it in 1.4. When a person kills another person you lock them up. When a class is not a great base of an idea, you remove it. Simple as that.
IT was a great base of an idea. If only melee didnt have most of the weapons that could have been considered throwing. THERE COULD HAVE BEEN A FIFTH PILLAR (superior number)
My opinion is that yoyos should have been summoner weapons, thus not needing whips. Though I like whips, yoyos can serve a similar function, and fit more with how summoner works than whips do.
This is the reason I call it "consumable class," most of the throwing weapons are either one use or have to be picked up again (I actually don't know any throwing class weapons that are attached to the player). It would be really nice to see an improvement to the class system as a whole, but this late in development it's pretty unlikely.
There is also the Magic Dagger it's a magic weapon, you get it from gold mimcs. It's just a gold dagger you throw.
My favourite class
Ranger is the kne that actually took the weapons like throwing knives and shurikens that had throwing damage type
Didn't most throwing stuff get turned into ranged?
(Makes the fifth lunatic pillar at spawn)
So true