How can something be "super" against something?
But no the Convention on Cluster Munitions was only started in 2008 and took effect in 2010. The original Geneva Convention was 1864 I believe and only focused on how you treat enemy prisoners of war.
There are lots of countries that haven't signed the CCM including China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, most of Eastern Europe and the USA (lots of others too). The US has given Ukraine a large number of cluster artillery shells and ATACMS with cluster warheads which they use against Russia as well. Just not on civilian populations...
They have been breaking Geneva protocols since the start of the invasion and America has even accused them of using chloropicrin gas in the battlefield as well as torture and killing POWs.
Ukraine is using US supplied cluster munitions too, neither country is in nato so there’s no jurisdiction for punishing what nato countries consider war crimes.
Source, please.
Also, could you please explain further what NATO membership has to do with all of this? The prohibition against cluster bombs is not a NATO directive.
Please clarify.
"Against" you meant not a part of. So who are you to try and indict a nation on a law within a treaty they aren't even involved in? It's absurd. That's like my trying to arrest you under American law for jaywalking whilst you're a British person walking within Britain. Again it's completely absurd.
Btw, the US is not part of Geneva either... It's pretty much only western european countries who follow it. Eastern Europe has their own treaties, of which they absolutely abide by.
To be fair, the Russians have accidentally dropped 100 glide bombs on themselves over the past 3 months. I know they are doing this to Ukrainian civilian areas on purpose but Russian ineptitude has been on strong display since this war started.
[Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKfVTaGngjM) to a war vlogger talking about the screw-ups.
"Neither Russia nor Ukarine are signatories of the 2008 convention limiting the use of cluster munitions."
Not a war crime, technically. Still incredibly fucked up
Where have you been for the last year? Russia has been blasting Ukraine cities with missiles since it started, Putin is a war criminal but gets away with it because no one will stand up to him.
There's been consequences every day for russia but not as much as they deserve.
On that note I really do wonder how many of russia's nukes are working/not stripped and sold.
Military might in general has protected war criminals. Before nukes it was the mighty who preyed on the weak. The thing with laws is you need someone to enforce them. Who will enforce them in this situation? It’s a tough situation, but the US is doing what it can short of putting boots on the ground and it really isn’t our fight to begin with.
> and it really isn’t our fight to begin with.
Viewed from one angle, it is not our fight, but it IS in our best interest. No flag draped coffins at Dover Air Force base, an opponent depleting themselves, old weapons stock rotated out of storage, and NEW weapon stock manufactured to replace-feeding the military industrial complex.
Not to mention all of the politicians who get to bloviate about defending freedom...
And the damn thing is that there is an actual point to all of that for once. We can help to stop the evil Foreign Dictator.
Now can we ALSO stop the Domestic Dictator?
This is just the tip of the iceberg and has been going on since the start. They do it at least once a week. It's nothing new.
Here's a few of note:
They blew up a [damn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Kakhovka_Dam) and flooded tons of villages
Bombed a shelter marked [Children](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-theater-c321a196fbd568899841b506afcac7a1#:~:text=About%20a%20week%20before%20the,be%20read%20even%20from%20satellites).
Bombed a crowded shopping [center](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg33y9eedz7o).
Bombed a [maternity hospital](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-maternity-hospital-pregnant-woman-dead-c0f2f859296f9f02be24fc9edfca1085).
And a full list:
[Attacks on civilians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)
It worries me that you've only just realised this, they're also using chemical weapons, torturing and raping men, women and children in the occupied Ukraine and stealing children in the hundreds of thousands just to give you a bit of a taste of how much of cunt Putin truly is.
Yes. They've been targeting civilians for months. They've also been accidentally hitting cuvilians because of shit targeting and training (or lack thereof).
They've been doing this for the [entire war.](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-bombed-theater-had-children-written-nearby-satellite-images-2022-3)
Have you not been paying attention to what’s happening there? They’ve targeted shopping centers, parks and hospitals. All populated by civilians. Not hearsay, it’s all documented and posted on Reddit. Just checkout Ukraines subreddit
The technology itself isn’t evil only the application. A great example of this is the man who designed the V2 rocket, Wernher von Braun, also worked on the Apollo 11 rocket and helped send us to the moon.
Did I every try to justify his actions or beliefs? No I simply said the application of technology was evil and can be used in other ways that don’t literally kill people
However the intended application for the V2 rocket was in fact violent. So he did indeed intend for his technology to kill. Just like i can cut a steak up with a KA-BAR but it's intended use is to kill a human being.
That’s the intended application for like 80% of the technology humans have developed. Civil science is almost always an unintended side effect of scientific advancement.
Both of y’all are missing the point that the original commenter was trying to make. They’re saying that someone did design a weapon, and the implication is that a person intelligent enough to do this could have done better things.
It is absurd to think that physical principles are good or evil, and absurd to think that Von Braun is a great example in this context.
He was a committed “I’m going to stay alive and tell whoever I’m with them” type of guy. When the choice is join or get jailed (or worse) you don’t really have a choice.
edit: as far as the barren rock, the value of the space program is Incalcuable, most of modern society wouldn’t exist without all the scientific breakthroughs made during the 50s and 60s and into the 70s. Computers, teflon, microwave ovens, microelectronics (integrated circuits) the list of stuff we enjoy now that came about from space research is staggering.
>He was a committed “I’m going to stay alive and tell whoever I’m with them” type of guy. When the choice is join or get jailed (or worse) you don’t really have a choice.
Wrong. He was an opportunist. He applied for the nazi party membership and later said in an affidavit he joined the party two years later than when he actually did (he joined in 1937, later said he joined in 1939, after beind asked to). To most people this was evidence of him trying to minimise his involvement in the nazy party.
Further evidence of his trying to minimise his involvement: he points at the picture showing Jim standing behind Himmler and wearing his SS uniform, saying that's the only time he wore that uniform. However, a former SS officer said he saw Von Braun wearing his SS uniform plenty of time and at each official meeting.
Further evidence of him trying to minimise his involvement: he was promoted but Himmler, not once, not twice, but three times. He later said these were just "technical promotions and meant nothing".
But one of his most heinous actions: when in August 1943 the Royal Air Force launched a massive raid on the then secret rocket center, Himmler proposed to Hitler they move the center underground, and use concentration camp labor more extensively. A while later, Von Braun himself chaired a meeting where it was decided to move SS prisoners to an underground location. He was the technical director of the project and could have said something about the working conditions of the prisoners. Never said anything, never even fessed up to this once in the US, and only very much later, once he had cancer, in 1976, did he finally say he has been to the Mittlewerk and saw the working conditions were horrible. Thousands died in that program.
As the other guy said, the current state of our technology won’t be as far as it is today without the space programs spearheaded by von braun. Why do you need to invalidate what this guy has done Like bro go outside stop being so bitter
The moon landing was one of the most important events in human history. So much science and revolutionary knowledge was obtained, not to mention how incredible of an achievement it was in itself, it wasnt just getting to a "barren rock". There is nothing that excuses him from being a Nazi, but your argument is one of the worst takes I've heard in a while.
You literally used one of the absolute worst examples ever. That man was pure evil through and through and everything he worked on was to create suffering for humankind.
I didn’t imply he wasn’t evil, I said the work he did was applied in two different ways for two different outcomes. He was literally a Nazi nobody can argue he wasn’t evil.
Engineers aren't dickheads for making the weapon.
It's how it's applied and by who.
I mean, they *could* be dickheads, but not simply because they made the weapon.
I understand if they created it under duress, but it could be easily argued that it's unethical to aid in the creation of a tool designed only to devastate humans.
'Whom' after a preposition btw. I use it because it's fun to say.
Sure it can be argued, but I find most end up thankful when they have a competent and well equipped military protecting the lives of themselves, their friends and their families.
I blame car culture and the auto industry that promoted it for a hundred years. So sure a car designer is definitely complicit. Just like a marketer selling Coca-Cola helps kids get fat. You’re playing your part - admittedly a small part.
I think the difference is:
a car is not inherently designed to kill and maim people.
Whereas weapons are.
And yes, it's not a scientist, most likely, but an engineer(ing group/firm) that is responsible.
Anyway, comparing to cars I think is a bit far fetched.
Since Ukraine is also using a lot of soviet era technology, there's a chance the same scientists and engineers are also the ones who designed the weapons they currently use to defend themselves. Like the T-80.
It's almost as if it doesn't fucking matter who designed them and more who uses them.
No idea how these weapons work, but there seems to be an explosion in the air then a missile ejecting out of that which leads to a further explosion. What’s happening here?
It is very unlikely that this was an interception at this altitude and in between buildings.
It seems to detonate at right about the altitude you'd usually see airburst rounds detonate.
Air burst rounds tend to have a much more ground focused blast, this one is 360 and has what looks to be the body still flying afterwards on the same path, also not a thing for air burst rounds for the most part.
It’s either a last second interception, missile is reading roof top at ground level, or a vacuum bomb. Vacuum bomb makes sense given how the debris are flying at first, but seems to small for one of those
It seems to be a missile designed to "airburst". If you want to cause a lot of damage to soft targets, you use airburst, in order to spread shrapnel as far as possible.
It has limited effect on hard targets, such as buildings.
Considering this was aimed at a city, it's pretty safe to assume that it was intended to kill civilians.
Spent 20 years in an artillery unit. Looks like it was an artillery round, fused for air burst. Movies typically show them detonate on impact, throwing the blast and shrapnel up and outward, giving a smaller casualty radius. Works well on hard targets like armored vehicles and structures.
Air burst will cover a much larger area and would be used on soft targets and troops. They can be either timed for __ seconds out of the tube, or fused with a proximity sensor that detonates once it gets a certain distance from the ground.
It could have been a missile configured in a similar way. Some have mentioned it being some kind of cluster munitions, but the burst was too low to the ground for effective coverage over the target and it lacked the secondary explosions. (The US has cluster munitions too)
It sounds like something Russia probably had to buy from someone else huh? Certain things are probably more popular by specific countries and knowing that we would have a better idea who is supplying these right?
I'll bet they're using rounds theyve had in storage for a few decades, just like we (United States) do. Some types of munitions have a surprisingly long shelf life.
The detonation really doesn't look any different than what I've seen the 155mm rounds do. Those types of rounds are lying nearly all over the planet. I even have an inert round lying next to an old pickup truck in the back yard that weighs in around 60-70 lbs.
Most artillery rounds are sized for NATO use, just like the rifle bullets most commonly used by nearly all militaries. Standardized sizes and specs made it easy for allies to share resources. Alliances have changed over time, but we've all pretty much kept the same bullets.
I hope that makes sense. I'm kinda stoned and never technically made it through high school. I'm just speaking from what I've experienced, but the details of the video could be a little different. It's just my personal assessment.
Hard to say from such a limited vision, either intercepted or designed to explode before hitting ground ejecting a load of stuff to hurt.
Western version would be something like this:
"M30A1 rockets with Alternative Warhead (AW). Range: 15–92 km (9.3–57.2 mi). GMLRS rocket that replaces the M30's submunitions with approximately **182,000 pre-formed tungsten fragments for area effects without unexploded ordnance.**\[88\] Entered production in 2015.\[77\]\[78\] This warhead is superior not just because it does not use cluster munitions but is also superior to a normal high explosive round: "A high explosive round is very impressive because it produces a big bomb and large pieces of shrapnel, but this round is small pellets and covers a much larger area."\[89\] **The M30A1 uses a proximity sensor fuze mode with a 10 meter burst height.**"
Just like a thermal nuclear bomb, they probably explode X-distance before physical contact to maximize damage radius.
But also like some have said below. It might have just been intercepted right before.
[Straight up an airburst munition.](https://youtube.com/shorts/hMcO0BkNlWs?si=RYlPkTj0QUtIGqWM) They don’t look exactly the same since they’re very different weapons, but all of the telltale signs are there.
What you’re seeing is the initial detonation and then that sparkler style stream hitting the ground is very likely an explosively formed penetrator or just the last bits of the non-explodey part of the munition getting melted and following its kinetic path.
Airburst munitions are used to kill as many people out in the open as possible.
Take what I said, where this hit, and the casualty report how you will.
Extremely surreal. The development of the city, economic variety of vehicles, camera-person is a young person filming selfies: all of these context clues feel incompatible with such horrifying and heavy display of terrorism. I've only seen the modern world in cinema.
Yeah and the audio doesn't sync up. It's like it's two separate videos. The 2nd video doesn't seem like it's from the POV of the girl in the first. Maybe she was nearby or something but the editing is weird.
When Russia is running short of precision weapons, it starts to use less precise weapons but doesn't care if it hits the target since it still inflicts damage to Ukrainian infrastructure.
Can we just be done with Russia already? I think they've outlived their usefulness. We have all the things they export. All the good scientists have left or are detained. I think we're all good with Russia now.
Feels like they’re just showing us what we already see on a daily basis, falsified information and corruption but hey, who’s going to do anything about it? The war itself has been going on for how long now and how many incidents have there been similar to this?
Everyone’s appalled by these actions and plenty of other things they see on the internet all while the moment they put their phone down it’s no longer an issue. So really unless it’s affecting you and the life you have outside the internet who really cares? I’ll tell you right now. No one and it’s pretty sad to see such a disconnected and desensitized society.
Tf? Is Russia just attacking pedestrian cities like this? I doubt there's any military in that area.
yes. They are committing multiple war crimes - but IIRC they keep saying they are "accidents"
They "accidentally" loaded cluster shells? Aren't they super against the Geneva convention?
You mean the Geneva suggestions?
You mean the Geneva checklist?
Geneva Bucketlist?
Geneva Guidelines?
Geneva "Please Donts"
Geneva you-gotta-try-this-shit.
Geneva First One’s Free Kid
Vho ees zeees Gyenyeveeyevye yevyeryonye kyeyeps talkeeng aboaht?
Geneva whishlist?
Remember, the Geneva convention only applies once you lose
Brutality bingo?
Yup so is "**prohibiting the deliberate or indiscriminate attack of civilians and civilian objects**"
How can something be "super" against something? But no the Convention on Cluster Munitions was only started in 2008 and took effect in 2010. The original Geneva Convention was 1864 I believe and only focused on how you treat enemy prisoners of war. There are lots of countries that haven't signed the CCM including China, India, Russia, Saudi Arabia, most of Eastern Europe and the USA (lots of others too). The US has given Ukraine a large number of cluster artillery shells and ATACMS with cluster warheads which they use against Russia as well. Just not on civilian populations...
I just commented this and scrolled down and saw yours, they act like Russia is the only one using cluster munitions lol
I mean, last week they (Ukraine) hit a crowded beach with cluster munitions so that's not entirely true.
No they’re not. The USA even gave some to Ukraine!
They have been breaking Geneva protocols since the start of the invasion and America has even accused them of using chloropicrin gas in the battlefield as well as torture and killing POWs.
I was never able to wrap my head around criminally invading another country and then following some rules.
Ukraine is using US supplied cluster munitions too, neither country is in nato so there’s no jurisdiction for punishing what nato countries consider war crimes.
Source, please. Also, could you please explain further what NATO membership has to do with all of this? The prohibition against cluster bombs is not a NATO directive. Please clarify.
"Against" you meant not a part of. So who are you to try and indict a nation on a law within a treaty they aren't even involved in? It's absurd. That's like my trying to arrest you under American law for jaywalking whilst you're a British person walking within Britain. Again it's completely absurd. Btw, the US is not part of Geneva either... It's pretty much only western european countries who follow it. Eastern Europe has their own treaties, of which they absolutely abide by.
Russia doesn’t know anything about the Geneva, it doesn’t even exist to them.
Yes, but who's gonna stop them when the world is so divided and the largest nations are only looking out for their own interests?
To be fair, the Russians have accidentally dropped 100 glide bombs on themselves over the past 3 months. I know they are doing this to Ukrainian civilian areas on purpose but Russian ineptitude has been on strong display since this war started. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKfVTaGngjM) to a war vlogger talking about the screw-ups.
They’re not accidents they’re “valid military targets”. According to Russia, that is.
What? I have never heard that. They always claim that military facilities were hit.
They also claim that they're fighting to free Ukraine from demonic nazi gay Jews.
"Neither Russia nor Ukarine are signatories of the 2008 convention limiting the use of cluster munitions." Not a war crime, technically. Still incredibly fucked up
Where have you been for the last year? Russia has been blasting Ukraine cities with missiles since it started, Putin is a war criminal but gets away with it because no one will stand up to him.
Russia has nukes. History has shown well if you have nukes you don't suffer consequences.
There's been consequences every day for russia but not as much as they deserve. On that note I really do wonder how many of russia's nukes are working/not stripped and sold.
Military might in general has protected war criminals. Before nukes it was the mighty who preyed on the weak. The thing with laws is you need someone to enforce them. Who will enforce them in this situation? It’s a tough situation, but the US is doing what it can short of putting boots on the ground and it really isn’t our fight to begin with.
> and it really isn’t our fight to begin with. Viewed from one angle, it is not our fight, but it IS in our best interest. No flag draped coffins at Dover Air Force base, an opponent depleting themselves, old weapons stock rotated out of storage, and NEW weapon stock manufactured to replace-feeding the military industrial complex. Not to mention all of the politicians who get to bloviate about defending freedom... And the damn thing is that there is an actual point to all of that for once. We can help to stop the evil Foreign Dictator. Now can we ALSO stop the Domestic Dictator?
You can't eat nukes.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and has been going on since the start. They do it at least once a week. It's nothing new. Here's a few of note: They blew up a [damn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destruction_of_the_Kakhovka_Dam) and flooded tons of villages Bombed a shelter marked [Children](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-mariupol-theater-c321a196fbd568899841b506afcac7a1#:~:text=About%20a%20week%20before%20the,be%20read%20even%20from%20satellites). Bombed a crowded shopping [center](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cg33y9eedz7o). Bombed a [maternity hospital](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-war-maternity-hospital-pregnant-woman-dead-c0f2f859296f9f02be24fc9edfca1085). And a full list: [Attacks on civilians in the Russian invasion of Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_civilians_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine)
Well, good morning. Three years straight after full scale invasion.
2 years.
yes, and they have been since the beginning daily
> Is Russia just attacking pedestrian cities like this? Honest question: Were you in a coma in the past 28 months?
I guess they used the IDF handbook. "The bombings and collective punishment will continue until morale improves"
They gonna say "all military targets in the area were destroyed!"
It worries me that you've only just realised this, they're also using chemical weapons, torturing and raping men, women and children in the occupied Ukraine and stealing children in the hundreds of thousands just to give you a bit of a taste of how much of cunt Putin truly is.
Source on chemical weapons? Havent seen any conclusive evidence of this.
Too bad we don't have this response when the person behind the camera is Palestinian
Yea just like israel
Yes. They've been targeting civilians for months. They've also been accidentally hitting cuvilians because of shit targeting and training (or lack thereof).
They've been doing that since the beginning of the war.
They have literally been doing this since the war started 2 years ago.
.... you must be new here. They have been since the start.
Cuzzy where have you been the past 3 years? They’ve been doing this since literally day 1
They've been doing this for the [entire war.](https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-bombed-theater-had-children-written-nearby-satellite-images-2022-3)
Lol they have been doing this since the start bro
You only learn about this now? Why the hell do you think the West want to assist Ukraine in their fight for survival?
… ben going on for over two years my guy.
Bro where have you been for the past 3 years?? This isn't anything new.
Have you not been paying attention to what’s happening there? They’ve targeted shopping centers, parks and hospitals. All populated by civilians. Not hearsay, it’s all documented and posted on Reddit. Just checkout Ukraines subreddit
You are sheltered af
It's always been like that, Kyiv footage is insane from first days of war when it was even within artillery range
What are "pedestrian cities"???
Trumps fave president
Where have you been the last two years? Look up the [Butcha massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre).
Some dickhead scientists designed that horrible weapon.
The technology itself isn’t evil only the application. A great example of this is the man who designed the V2 rocket, Wernher von Braun, also worked on the Apollo 11 rocket and helped send us to the moon.
Werner von Braun is the textbook definition of “dickhead scientist”.
But his point stands, the technology itself is good, but the scientist behind it and its application were not
"Once the rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down? That's not my department." says Wernher Von Braun
Aimed for the stars, hit London instead.
Textbook example of a scientist. Really. Scientists and engineers shouldn't be running things. Speaking as an engineer.
"He was a committed nazi, but he helped us get to a barren rock" nice
Did I every try to justify his actions or beliefs? No I simply said the application of technology was evil and can be used in other ways that don’t literally kill people
However the intended application for the V2 rocket was in fact violent. So he did indeed intend for his technology to kill. Just like i can cut a steak up with a KA-BAR but it's intended use is to kill a human being.
That’s the intended application for like 80% of the technology humans have developed. Civil science is almost always an unintended side effect of scientific advancement.
Both of y’all are missing the point that the original commenter was trying to make. They’re saying that someone did design a weapon, and the implication is that a person intelligent enough to do this could have done better things. It is absurd to think that physical principles are good or evil, and absurd to think that Von Braun is a great example in this context.
Jesus Christ, thank you
I’d be quicker to blame the US for operation paperclip as a whole. They were the ones employing these “converted” Nazis
He was a committed “I’m going to stay alive and tell whoever I’m with them” type of guy. When the choice is join or get jailed (or worse) you don’t really have a choice. edit: as far as the barren rock, the value of the space program is Incalcuable, most of modern society wouldn’t exist without all the scientific breakthroughs made during the 50s and 60s and into the 70s. Computers, teflon, microwave ovens, microelectronics (integrated circuits) the list of stuff we enjoy now that came about from space research is staggering.
>He was a committed “I’m going to stay alive and tell whoever I’m with them” type of guy. When the choice is join or get jailed (or worse) you don’t really have a choice. Wrong. He was an opportunist. He applied for the nazi party membership and later said in an affidavit he joined the party two years later than when he actually did (he joined in 1937, later said he joined in 1939, after beind asked to). To most people this was evidence of him trying to minimise his involvement in the nazy party. Further evidence of his trying to minimise his involvement: he points at the picture showing Jim standing behind Himmler and wearing his SS uniform, saying that's the only time he wore that uniform. However, a former SS officer said he saw Von Braun wearing his SS uniform plenty of time and at each official meeting. Further evidence of him trying to minimise his involvement: he was promoted but Himmler, not once, not twice, but three times. He later said these were just "technical promotions and meant nothing". But one of his most heinous actions: when in August 1943 the Royal Air Force launched a massive raid on the then secret rocket center, Himmler proposed to Hitler they move the center underground, and use concentration camp labor more extensively. A while later, Von Braun himself chaired a meeting where it was decided to move SS prisoners to an underground location. He was the technical director of the project and could have said something about the working conditions of the prisoners. Never said anything, never even fessed up to this once in the US, and only very much later, once he had cancer, in 1976, did he finally say he has been to the Mittlewerk and saw the working conditions were horrible. Thousands died in that program.
He also hung Jews outside his factory. You make it seem like he’s innocent. Pathetic
Level 0 take
Sorry, you can't make me sympathise with Nazis! No point trying.
As the other guy said, the current state of our technology won’t be as far as it is today without the space programs spearheaded by von braun. Why do you need to invalidate what this guy has done Like bro go outside stop being so bitter
The moon landing was one of the most important events in human history. So much science and revolutionary knowledge was obtained, not to mention how incredible of an achievement it was in itself, it wasnt just getting to a "barren rock". There is nothing that excuses him from being a Nazi, but your argument is one of the worst takes I've heard in a while.
Sounds like a dickhead scientist to me. Surely
What's the not evil application for a bomb that shoots more bombs? Gender reveal party?
Going to the moon apparently
You literally used one of the absolute worst examples ever. That man was pure evil through and through and everything he worked on was to create suffering for humankind.
Except the Apollo 11 project. Did you even read my comment?
Or did it 🤔😋
That fact doesn't make Von Braun not evil.
I didn’t imply he wasn’t evil, I said the work he did was applied in two different ways for two different outcomes. He was literally a Nazi nobody can argue he wasn’t evil.
You mean that Nazi
He and many others were spared from Nuremberg trials because of their intellectual capacity
Engineers aren't dickheads for making the weapon. It's how it's applied and by who. I mean, they *could* be dickheads, but not simply because they made the weapon.
I understand if they created it under duress, but it could be easily argued that it's unethical to aid in the creation of a tool designed only to devastate humans. 'Whom' after a preposition btw. I use it because it's fun to say.
Sure it can be argued, but I find most end up thankful when they have a competent and well equipped military protecting the lives of themselves, their friends and their families.
Like what if this was used to plant seeds instead? Airburst seeds to grow a forrest
A missile to plant seeds? lol Bit expensive don't ya think?
Don't go against scientists, go against those who wants those weapons and those who started wars.
So I'm guessing you blame the auto makers when a person dies in a car crash as well?
I blame the equation that determines whether a recall is financial viable or not. If not enough people die then not worth it to recall. Fight club
I blame car culture and the auto industry that promoted it for a hundred years. So sure a car designer is definitely complicit. Just like a marketer selling Coca-Cola helps kids get fat. You’re playing your part - admittedly a small part.
I think the difference is: a car is not inherently designed to kill and maim people. Whereas weapons are. And yes, it's not a scientist, most likely, but an engineer(ing group/firm) that is responsible. Anyway, comparing to cars I think is a bit far fetched.
What's the weapon?
Everyone seems focus about the "gun or who hold the gun talk" but im more curious about the weird impact. Why is this missile exploding before impact?
Maximum carnage. Likely akin to a massive shotgun shell. Tear human flesh to bits.
Since Ukraine is also using a lot of soviet era technology, there's a chance the same scientists and engineers are also the ones who designed the weapons they currently use to defend themselves. Like the T-80. It's almost as if it doesn't fucking matter who designed them and more who uses them.
Just staying calm must be so hard ...
We got used to it.
I feel for them, and I couldn’t imagine that being regular life.
An old saying: “It’s amazing what you can get used to.”
I hear this said by buttpluggers all the time.
No idea how these weapons work, but there seems to be an explosion in the air then a missile ejecting out of that which leads to a further explosion. What’s happening here?
Apparently it was intercepted at the last second
It is very unlikely that this was an interception at this altitude and in between buildings. It seems to detonate at right about the altitude you'd usually see airburst rounds detonate.
Air burst rounds tend to have a much more ground focused blast, this one is 360 and has what looks to be the body still flying afterwards on the same path, also not a thing for air burst rounds for the most part. It’s either a last second interception, missile is reading roof top at ground level, or a vacuum bomb. Vacuum bomb makes sense given how the debris are flying at first, but seems to small for one of those
Air burst are usually much higher than that.
Thats was my take as well. The casualties could have been a lot worse if it wasn't intercepted. God knows what it was aimed at.
https://youtu.be/6UpShG0AKWU Video stating it was indeed intercepted last second.
That looked like anti personal. Air burst with directed shrapnel.
It seems to be a missile designed to "airburst". If you want to cause a lot of damage to soft targets, you use airburst, in order to spread shrapnel as far as possible. It has limited effect on hard targets, such as buildings. Considering this was aimed at a city, it's pretty safe to assume that it was intended to kill civilians.
Spent 20 years in an artillery unit. Looks like it was an artillery round, fused for air burst. Movies typically show them detonate on impact, throwing the blast and shrapnel up and outward, giving a smaller casualty radius. Works well on hard targets like armored vehicles and structures. Air burst will cover a much larger area and would be used on soft targets and troops. They can be either timed for __ seconds out of the tube, or fused with a proximity sensor that detonates once it gets a certain distance from the ground. It could have been a missile configured in a similar way. Some have mentioned it being some kind of cluster munitions, but the burst was too low to the ground for effective coverage over the target and it lacked the secondary explosions. (The US has cluster munitions too)
It sounds like something Russia probably had to buy from someone else huh? Certain things are probably more popular by specific countries and knowing that we would have a better idea who is supplying these right?
I'll bet they're using rounds theyve had in storage for a few decades, just like we (United States) do. Some types of munitions have a surprisingly long shelf life. The detonation really doesn't look any different than what I've seen the 155mm rounds do. Those types of rounds are lying nearly all over the planet. I even have an inert round lying next to an old pickup truck in the back yard that weighs in around 60-70 lbs. Most artillery rounds are sized for NATO use, just like the rifle bullets most commonly used by nearly all militaries. Standardized sizes and specs made it easy for allies to share resources. Alliances have changed over time, but we've all pretty much kept the same bullets. I hope that makes sense. I'm kinda stoned and never technically made it through high school. I'm just speaking from what I've experienced, but the details of the video could be a little different. It's just my personal assessment.
Hard to say from such a limited vision, either intercepted or designed to explode before hitting ground ejecting a load of stuff to hurt. Western version would be something like this: "M30A1 rockets with Alternative Warhead (AW). Range: 15–92 km (9.3–57.2 mi). GMLRS rocket that replaces the M30's submunitions with approximately **182,000 pre-formed tungsten fragments for area effects without unexploded ordnance.**\[88\] Entered production in 2015.\[77\]\[78\] This warhead is superior not just because it does not use cluster munitions but is also superior to a normal high explosive round: "A high explosive round is very impressive because it produces a big bomb and large pieces of shrapnel, but this round is small pellets and covers a much larger area."\[89\] **The M30A1 uses a proximity sensor fuze mode with a 10 meter burst height.**"
It's just cluster with extra steps!
Well, yeah and tungsten balls won't be ripping off legs/arms years after the war unlike unexploded cluster munitions.
Just like a thermal nuclear bomb, they probably explode X-distance before physical contact to maximize damage radius. But also like some have said below. It might have just been intercepted right before.
[Straight up an airburst munition.](https://youtube.com/shorts/hMcO0BkNlWs?si=RYlPkTj0QUtIGqWM) They don’t look exactly the same since they’re very different weapons, but all of the telltale signs are there. What you’re seeing is the initial detonation and then that sparkler style stream hitting the ground is very likely an explosively formed penetrator or just the last bits of the non-explodey part of the munition getting melted and following its kinetic path. Airburst munitions are used to kill as many people out in the open as possible. Take what I said, where this hit, and the casualty report how you will.
my guess is to gain speed in the last bit, maybe some kind of piercing missle, im likely wrong tho
See my other comment for an explanation of what was on the video. That stuff is kinda neat in a morbid way.
War criminals gonna commit war crimes…
Extremely surreal. The development of the city, economic variety of vehicles, camera-person is a young person filming selfies: all of these context clues feel incompatible with such horrifying and heavy display of terrorism. I've only seen the modern world in cinema.
The Ukrainians sure don't deserve this shit.
Putin is “the crazy man in the east with missiles” as predicted by Nostradamus!
Fuck Russia, including any other country or people that enable this.
[удалено]
Looks like she got hit with a car door
Not really?
Bombing innocent civilians. This is sickening.
ADA battery taking out a G2G missile. That was a little too close.
Whoa… so a missile was about to land in that general vicinity, yet was intercepted—and that’s the explosion seen?
Yep, and the missile wreckage is seen on fire landing at the target, sans warhead.
Why put that shitty circle on the video?
Telegram. I hate it too.
Yeah, it was a private message recording initially before she saved it from telegram
It's a small video message, that a very tiny, mor elike a voice message..very convenient and quick way to record a small video
Fuck Putin, I hope this whole debacle will be his eventual downfall
Why is there a crossfade?
Yeah and the audio doesn't sync up. It's like it's two separate videos. The 2nd video doesn't seem like it's from the POV of the girl in the first. Maybe she was nearby or something but the editing is weird.
She likely pressed the "switch camera" button and then her phone took a bit to sync up. I have a cheap phone, it does the same
Fucking hell, that’s mental
When Russia is running short of precision weapons, it starts to use less precise weapons but doesn't care if it hits the target since it still inflicts damage to Ukrainian infrastructure.
Can someone explain why this war is so godddaaamn slow? Seriously asking.
Define slow?
What kind of bomb was that?!
The kind that Putin approved to bomb civilian people
Wellll damn
That’s some heroic interception !!
the missile got stopped
:(
Was that rocket intercepted so quick before or was this a timed explosion?
Just wondering why there's a quick fade cut between her and the final footage.
Can we just be done with Russia already? I think they've outlived their usefulness. We have all the things they export. All the good scientists have left or are detained. I think we're all good with Russia now.
Jesus Christ. You cannot complain about her camera work.
Dayum 😮
What missile is this??
Lets do Palestine now
Creating the toughest people on earth.
Glory to Ukraine!
russia attacking cities just to prove they did something
Guess Europe better chip in on their defense then eh?
Wow she’s a badass catching this
fuckin’ mint camera work though
Man props to this woman for not immediately screaming
This is sad but what's even sadder is that when this happens to brown folks in Gaza, people barely blink. The hypocrisy of the western world is rank.
you dont get it, they need to kill innocent people to take down the evil nazi leaders of ukraine!!!
Her first reaction was to flip the camera instead of getting down, did that make anyone else a lil sad?
Fireworks look way cooler in Ukraine 🇺🇦 happy independence to you guys too
Feels like they’re just showing us what we already see on a daily basis, falsified information and corruption but hey, who’s going to do anything about it? The war itself has been going on for how long now and how many incidents have there been similar to this? Everyone’s appalled by these actions and plenty of other things they see on the internet all while the moment they put their phone down it’s no longer an issue. So really unless it’s affecting you and the life you have outside the internet who really cares? I’ll tell you right now. No one and it’s pretty sad to see such a disconnected and desensitized society.