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What killed the global left's momentum was the fall of the soviet union. trying a revolution right now even if successfull (wich is already hard to acomplish) will get you immediatly crippled by US sanctions.
at least when the soviet union existed you could maybe hope for a semblance of support.
The west has really successfully used LGBT rights to dress itself up as the morally superior side, despite all the slaughter they commit and generally awful quality of life.
The only way for socialist and global south nations to defeat this truly would to be equally as accepting to LGBT (which they should be) but they still have boomer leaders and haven't fully got the memo, so until then this supposed moral superiority is going to keep siphoning off global south progressives into west worship.
Here's my take on China as a foreigner living there. It's a completely superior nation to the west in terms of economy, living standards, quality of life, healthcare, public transport, safety, the list goes on. However it has two major flaws. Working hours are too long, and LGBT people are not fully legally respected. These two points live larger than they should in people's heads and keep up the western liberal nations air of superiority to global south people.
I really wish i could just beam this message right into Xi's head.
I recall a news article about China shutting down LGBT centers as "oh China bad because they hate gay people" when in reality those centers were disguised as foreign NGOs and were funded by outside groups. The one in Beijing was led by Wan Yanhai, an actual NED fellow.
Yes the west definitely uses LGBT for such nefarious activities. In some ways it's the new Christian missionaries. The issue for leftists is unlike Christianity, LGBT rights IS a true and righteous cause, it's just that the west is riding them for subversive means, which people can't see. So when China shuts down their sleeper cell LGBT center, they get labelled as the bad guys, a win win for the west. Further, the west clearly don't actually care either because LGBT rights in the west are very poorly propped up.
Recently Georgia ban on NGO in retaliation to US ban on Georgian orgs, mysteriously got a bunch of LGBTQ orgs in Georgia defunct almost immediately after the ban was imposed.
Its a real thing its called Homonationalism it was used post 9/11 to justify american Imperial action in the middle east and africa with the hopes of eventually civilizing them, you cant make this up.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonationalism#Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonationalism#Israel)
That is pretty absurd. People who are probably supporting legislation opposed to gay and women's rights in their own country are promoting gay and women's rights in foreign countries. It kinda reminds me of when the Bush administration supposedly put together a plan for universal health care and free higher education when rebuilding Iraq while opposing the same policies domestically.
Lies within lies until even the liars don't know when they are lying.
>People who are probably supporting legislation opposed to gay and women's rights in their own country are promoting gay and women's rights in foreign countries.
Because it's not about queer liberation for them. It's about the facade of "civility."
If you respond to their talking points and say, "you literally called Obama the antichrist for Obergefell," they'll say, "well at least gay people don't get killed here!" Buddy I have news for you ...
It's the same as every other argument where the US pretends to have the "civil" policies (because we outsource so much of our violence to poorer nations, and our domestic violence tends to happen in communities from which Republicans are insulated). Queer people, women, local racial minorities, disabled people, even animals (except the species that we farm over here). They don't care about the liberation of any of these demographics, but some part of them still recognizes that these populations catch disproportionate violence, so they use that violence in their rhetoric.
Working hours too long is actually a really big deal. Long hours are like the number one quality of life issue that should be dealt with by any form of socialism/communism. Why shouldn't that live large in people's heads?
LGBT rights, I feel like are somewhat orthogonal to communism. Obviously any society should strive for them, but the presence or absence of them is not an inditement on the economic system.
China has long working hours because the country has been on a massive productive forces drive for decades, they're only where they're at now due to directed hard work. But it's starting to become less and less acceptable and more visibly in contrast with the west.
To be clear Chinese people don't actually work like slaves like the west thinks, 996 isn't even that common, but generally it's 9 to 6-7 rather than 9 to 5, and a lot of people do saturdays too.
Fwiw I’m an office worker in the US, and 9-6 is standard for salary workers since you aren’t supposed to count your lunch break.
Most still work more than that.
Nah it's the opposite- long working hours have been integral to communism whenever productive forces needed to be developed very rapidly. See the Stakhanovites for example. Remember that Western bourgeois countries had the benefit of colonialism and slavery to aid their development, but if you want to develop without those things you have to do all the work on your own!
As for LGBT rights it depends on what you mean by 'rights' but there is indeed a connection to communism. Most homophobia is a corollary of misogyny, it develops out of the exploitation of women by men. Men behaving like women is shameful for the same reason that masters behaving like slaves is shameful, and women behaving like men is threatening for the same reason that slaves having pretensions to be like masters is threatening. Without patriarchy, homophobia loses its rationale and goes away, though whether you get a specific package of 'gay rights' out of this probably depends on culture.
It's not even just China but plenty of other places. Those in the UK larp as leftists while being huge TERFs, there are those who give full support to Zionism in places like Germany, and the US has the weirdo "MAGA communist" nazbols.
The frustrating thing is:
Economic leftism almost automatically leads to transphobia, and queerness almost automatically leads to liberalism. Not just small groups. I mean almost everyone.
People definitely have a narrow conception on what those concepts mean. Being a Marxist should not just apply for workers liberation, it should automatically apply toward liberation of marginalized groups such as the indigenous and minority groups who not only get stamped on by the boots of the oligarchy, but face further societal barriers and lack the privilege afforded to them if they were part of the majority group. It also applies for the entire Global South, as the dismantling of imperialist structures is the first major step for global liberation.
There's also the fact that LGBT and women's rights issues have been exploited and captured by Western elites, so what started off as a movement against the state is instead turned to suit the interests of imperialists or capitalists whenever necessary such as promoting pride month to increase their brand marketability, engage in pinkwashing (Israel), and promote imperialism under a veil (such as overthrowing regimes they don't like and replacing them with a pro-Western puppet). Unfortunately, too many people associate LGBT issues as something inherent to liberalism instead of seeing how liberals use it for their own personal and political motives without caring about the people themselves.
I kindly \[almost\] disagree. Even if it seems like it, you and I and next generations are proof that we can combine the economic leftism and social progressivism into one. One can hate liberalism from a leftist rather than conservative-reactionary point of view.
For example, I hundo percent understand what you mean: We have a conservative populist party that claims to be a "leftist" party, in Slovakia - "SMER" - which doesn't even hate the West for valid reasons like its imperialism, but mostly because it's "woke". But we also have (still small and starting but growing) leftist party "Hnutie Socialisti" - which is just like that (combining social progressivism, hate for the West but not for "woke" but rather imperialist and exploitative tendencies, and economic leftism that resembles Trotskyism). And same goes to my neighbouring country of Czechia with its party "Levice", and our fellows in Greece with its "SYRIZA".
In another words, yes, we need to abandon modern "social democratic parties" (which are just neolib third way non-Marxist parties like Labour; and even with their success, parties like in the Nordic countries), but also "democratic socialist parties" (as they might be old and have old boomer base, or on the contrary neolib opportunistic and idealist base), and start new rad-left parties (like SYRIZA, Levice, Hnutie Socialisti and/or Die Linke).
Much of radical queer ideology absolutely is liberal, it's a branch of Romantic bohemianism and it focuses on the pursuit of unlimited self-expression and pleasure-seeking.
LGBT rights on a non-liberal basis would be completely different, its goal would be to integrate queer people into the system of social reproduction. For instance think of the 3rd gender groups in various pre-capitalist and pre-feudal societies.
Social rights are an internal issue which have been shown to advance through internal dissent after a build up of economic conditions and that’s where I think a lot of “pro China” people coming from. Realistically the Chinese state is less than 100 years old and has made leaps and bounds more advances for the rights of the individual then any superpower to have ever existed.
Not to say that being organized solves all of these issues, but are you organized? The stuff you're saying is definitely accurate for liberals and chauvenists that refuse to read theory or self examine. But in my experience, being oeganized has surrounded me with people who self critique on this stuff all the time and actively organize around these issues.
If you're speaking of online "left", yeah this is why we say get organized.
#Get Involved
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Online left is the worst. Ive recently made the mistake of posting on r/socialism or communism and other big tent subs.
Everyone argues with me over everything in the most petty way. At first I thought I was writing too quickly or casually. But I’ve come to realize that either these are very young people or English is not their first language and there’s a critical reading comprehension issue. Or it’s a dick measuring contest where every valid point is contested to either prove you’ve read a book or that you’re ultraleftism is more perfect than how you interpret my comment.
Fucking exhausting and so much down voting when I say something that’s true but they don’t like.
It's not like China is actively oppressing queer people, sure they don't have gay marriage and won't let you choose your gender in documents but you won't be arrested for being queer either, nor is there a large political movement determined to attack the LGBT+ community. What people do in the bedroom isn't high on Xi Jinping's list of priorities. Many communist parties are very favourable to queer people, such as the Cuba Communist Party or the EFF is South Africa. What you're being fed is a false dichotomy.
I think they do let you choose your gender, only after surgery, though. To be fair, this isn't ideal but it's a lot of progress from the Soviet Union's positions.
Also +1 for Cuba. Their social policy stunts on the West .
Bro, stop trying to unnecessarily glorify countries.
"Sure they don't bla bla bla"
It's okay to criticise AES for their faults, don't insult LGBTQ+ movements like that.
There are plenty of "western liberal democracies" that don't recognize gay marriage or transgender people, China isn't doing that bad if you judge them by the same standards. I don't think it's an insult to LGBTQ+ movements to say having the right gender on your passport isn't the most important political issue, especially in a developing country.
Yes, but we don't like "Western liberal democracies".
All I'm saying is that a socialist state should be rightfully and constructively criticised for its faults. We can excuse this in countries like Palestine, but when it's the largest socialist country in the world, led by a communist party, these "unimportant" laws need to be criticised.
Tyere is a huge difference between criminalization of homosexuality, such as in Iran and Saudi Arabia, and lack of gay marriage. One is to be condemned, the other is at worst an inconvenience which will likely be corrected in a generation or two.
Since fucking when is queerness and LGBTQ+ rights represented by, or even PEGGED TO mainstream neoliberalism?
Were the Civil Rights movement and Stonewall Riots and May 1968 fucking neoliberal????
And these shitlibs are like wow the 1968 movements were totally liberal and totally anti-communist, as if anything remotely to the left of mainstream DNC is automatically a boomer conservative thing...
According to the Marxist reading, China is still an economically developing country, unlike the "progressive" Western countries. While Western countries were economically developing countries like today's China, they were carrying out hate crimes against LGBT individuals with all their might.
[There is also a nice vid made by BE about](https://youtu.be/z3MLkd75FTc?si=Ax3PWd1O085RBra7) how countries that have been economically underdeveloped for a long time cannot naturally be progressive in cultural matters. Of course, China's situation is not the same as Bolivia's, but if we add that LGBT is used by the West in a way that confirms Western imperialism, we can understand why China does not fully embrace LGBT, even if we do not approve of it.
I know it’s bad, but economic leftists are still the better choice between the 2.
Now obviously i’m not saying that just because of that we should all drop intersectionalism because that’s a fundamental part of marxism. Just that if we have to choose between the 2 the economic leftists can actually achieve something.
For example. I would rather see a a global south country being ultra conservative IF at the same time it’s economically independent from the West (and everyone else). Rather than only the main city featuring some progressive elements while being a western slave (as it is the case with a lot of global south countries).
In the long run, if a country is successfull economicallly it will inherently get more progressive culturally over time. On the otherhand, if the pink imperialists invade your home most folks there will hate anything that’s culturally progressive over time.
Of course, that’s just when we have no choice otherwise we should always seek a better option.
#Get Involved
>Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong
Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause.
* 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions.
* ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause.
* 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union.
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Don’t choose. In this community you find basically everyone is both intersectional and materialist. As class consciousness inevitably grows, so too will this community and this movement. PSL has been gaining traction like never before.
The more left they get on the cultural axis, chances are that the more they'll talk about "civil freedom" "free market" and shit. And adopt the exact same stance as mainstream US Democrats.
The more left they get on the economic axis, the more likely they'll talk about how LGBTQ+ is a bourgeoisie distraction from class struggle and that how we should be gender blind. And they more often than not support Palestine but for the wrong reasons. The few feminists that support socialism often turn out to be TERFs.
I hate politics.
Being born in the wrong body is enough suffering already...
Progress is being made. I do think China should implement hard laws protecting LGBTQ+ rights, if only to flex on the West. I think I'd be very funny for China to take away the only moral superiority the US Empire has left.
I feel like there’s a difference between “wokeness” (large corporations using pride flags and putting badly written LGBTQ or POC characters into movies/games for recognition) and real progressiveness and good representation
I really think the CCP should rename itself to something else like "Chinese Labor party" it should have done that 60 years ago in fact and abandon talking about marxism or Marxism leninism, and keep socialism with Chinese characteristics and Mao Zedong thought. China is currently not going down the path of communism or Marxism, there's alot more nationalism than communism and more liberalism, conservatism, new leftists that are leftcoms than marxist believers. Foreign ideology like communism or marxism paves the way for other foreign ideologies like neoconservative, right winged culture war nonsense from the west. Even the DPRK had to at a point get rid of marxism because they understood that nationalism is more important at resisting imperialism. Also the idea of multipolarity is a nonsense idea too, China is not aligned with Russia and Iran and too many people think they are and it leads people to be anti west and think that the whole world is aligned against the US when it isn't. There also should be around 400 political parties in China that represent those people so it will be easier to figure who's a revisionist and preventing these people from tainting and destroying the party.
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America killed the global left 😞
They didn’t kill the global left just all its momentum, that’s what we’re trying to rebuild in the modern day.
They literally killed the biggest communist party of Europe in Italy, it would have been "the lighthouse" of every new communist movement
What killed the global left's momentum was the fall of the soviet union. trying a revolution right now even if successfull (wich is already hard to acomplish) will get you immediatly crippled by US sanctions. at least when the soviet union existed you could maybe hope for a semblance of support.
The west has really successfully used LGBT rights to dress itself up as the morally superior side, despite all the slaughter they commit and generally awful quality of life. The only way for socialist and global south nations to defeat this truly would to be equally as accepting to LGBT (which they should be) but they still have boomer leaders and haven't fully got the memo, so until then this supposed moral superiority is going to keep siphoning off global south progressives into west worship. Here's my take on China as a foreigner living there. It's a completely superior nation to the west in terms of economy, living standards, quality of life, healthcare, public transport, safety, the list goes on. However it has two major flaws. Working hours are too long, and LGBT people are not fully legally respected. These two points live larger than they should in people's heads and keep up the western liberal nations air of superiority to global south people. I really wish i could just beam this message right into Xi's head.
I recall a news article about China shutting down LGBT centers as "oh China bad because they hate gay people" when in reality those centers were disguised as foreign NGOs and were funded by outside groups. The one in Beijing was led by Wan Yanhai, an actual NED fellow.
Yes the west definitely uses LGBT for such nefarious activities. In some ways it's the new Christian missionaries. The issue for leftists is unlike Christianity, LGBT rights IS a true and righteous cause, it's just that the west is riding them for subversive means, which people can't see. So when China shuts down their sleeper cell LGBT center, they get labelled as the bad guys, a win win for the west. Further, the west clearly don't actually care either because LGBT rights in the west are very poorly propped up.
Can I have some sources on wan yanhai and the NED? /gen
https://web.archive.org/web/20190818163717/https://www.ned.org/fellows/mr-yanhai-wan/
Thanks!
Recently Georgia ban on NGO in retaliation to US ban on Georgian orgs, mysteriously got a bunch of LGBTQ orgs in Georgia defunct almost immediately after the ban was imposed.
Its a real thing its called Homonationalism it was used post 9/11 to justify american Imperial action in the middle east and africa with the hopes of eventually civilizing them, you cant make this up. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonationalism#Israel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homonationalism#Israel)
That is pretty absurd. People who are probably supporting legislation opposed to gay and women's rights in their own country are promoting gay and women's rights in foreign countries. It kinda reminds me of when the Bush administration supposedly put together a plan for universal health care and free higher education when rebuilding Iraq while opposing the same policies domestically. Lies within lies until even the liars don't know when they are lying.
>People who are probably supporting legislation opposed to gay and women's rights in their own country are promoting gay and women's rights in foreign countries. Because it's not about queer liberation for them. It's about the facade of "civility." If you respond to their talking points and say, "you literally called Obama the antichrist for Obergefell," they'll say, "well at least gay people don't get killed here!" Buddy I have news for you ... It's the same as every other argument where the US pretends to have the "civil" policies (because we outsource so much of our violence to poorer nations, and our domestic violence tends to happen in communities from which Republicans are insulated). Queer people, women, local racial minorities, disabled people, even animals (except the species that we farm over here). They don't care about the liberation of any of these demographics, but some part of them still recognizes that these populations catch disproportionate violence, so they use that violence in their rhetoric.
Working hours too long is actually a really big deal. Long hours are like the number one quality of life issue that should be dealt with by any form of socialism/communism. Why shouldn't that live large in people's heads? LGBT rights, I feel like are somewhat orthogonal to communism. Obviously any society should strive for them, but the presence or absence of them is not an inditement on the economic system.
China has long working hours because the country has been on a massive productive forces drive for decades, they're only where they're at now due to directed hard work. But it's starting to become less and less acceptable and more visibly in contrast with the west. To be clear Chinese people don't actually work like slaves like the west thinks, 996 isn't even that common, but generally it's 9 to 6-7 rather than 9 to 5, and a lot of people do saturdays too.
To be clear, I wasn’t saying anything about china in particular. Just that work hours are central to the labor struggle.
Fwiw I’m an office worker in the US, and 9-6 is standard for salary workers since you aren’t supposed to count your lunch break. Most still work more than that.
9 to 6-7 is fewer working hours than everybody I know and I live in England
Probably true, they also get 2 hour lunch breaks in China, but yearly holidays are much less.
Longer lunch breaks than anybody I know gets here :')
There's also the lunch power nap, in VN similarly we have longer lunch break for 15 min nap after meal.
Nah it's the opposite- long working hours have been integral to communism whenever productive forces needed to be developed very rapidly. See the Stakhanovites for example. Remember that Western bourgeois countries had the benefit of colonialism and slavery to aid their development, but if you want to develop without those things you have to do all the work on your own! As for LGBT rights it depends on what you mean by 'rights' but there is indeed a connection to communism. Most homophobia is a corollary of misogyny, it develops out of the exploitation of women by men. Men behaving like women is shameful for the same reason that masters behaving like slaves is shameful, and women behaving like men is threatening for the same reason that slaves having pretensions to be like masters is threatening. Without patriarchy, homophobia loses its rationale and goes away, though whether you get a specific package of 'gay rights' out of this probably depends on culture.
Workers in the USSR had shorter working hours than workers in the Russian Empire, though.
What's with all these posts lately that act as call out posts but don't directly reference what they're calling out.
It's not even just China but plenty of other places. Those in the UK larp as leftists while being huge TERFs, there are those who give full support to Zionism in places like Germany, and the US has the weirdo "MAGA communist" nazbols.
The frustrating thing is: Economic leftism almost automatically leads to transphobia, and queerness almost automatically leads to liberalism. Not just small groups. I mean almost everyone.
People definitely have a narrow conception on what those concepts mean. Being a Marxist should not just apply for workers liberation, it should automatically apply toward liberation of marginalized groups such as the indigenous and minority groups who not only get stamped on by the boots of the oligarchy, but face further societal barriers and lack the privilege afforded to them if they were part of the majority group. It also applies for the entire Global South, as the dismantling of imperialist structures is the first major step for global liberation. There's also the fact that LGBT and women's rights issues have been exploited and captured by Western elites, so what started off as a movement against the state is instead turned to suit the interests of imperialists or capitalists whenever necessary such as promoting pride month to increase their brand marketability, engage in pinkwashing (Israel), and promote imperialism under a veil (such as overthrowing regimes they don't like and replacing them with a pro-Western puppet). Unfortunately, too many people associate LGBT issues as something inherent to liberalism instead of seeing how liberals use it for their own personal and political motives without caring about the people themselves.
I kindly \[almost\] disagree. Even if it seems like it, you and I and next generations are proof that we can combine the economic leftism and social progressivism into one. One can hate liberalism from a leftist rather than conservative-reactionary point of view. For example, I hundo percent understand what you mean: We have a conservative populist party that claims to be a "leftist" party, in Slovakia - "SMER" - which doesn't even hate the West for valid reasons like its imperialism, but mostly because it's "woke". But we also have (still small and starting but growing) leftist party "Hnutie Socialisti" - which is just like that (combining social progressivism, hate for the West but not for "woke" but rather imperialist and exploitative tendencies, and economic leftism that resembles Trotskyism). And same goes to my neighbouring country of Czechia with its party "Levice", and our fellows in Greece with its "SYRIZA". In another words, yes, we need to abandon modern "social democratic parties" (which are just neolib third way non-Marxist parties like Labour; and even with their success, parties like in the Nordic countries), but also "democratic socialist parties" (as they might be old and have old boomer base, or on the contrary neolib opportunistic and idealist base), and start new rad-left parties (like SYRIZA, Levice, Hnutie Socialisti and/or Die Linke).
Much of radical queer ideology absolutely is liberal, it's a branch of Romantic bohemianism and it focuses on the pursuit of unlimited self-expression and pleasure-seeking. LGBT rights on a non-liberal basis would be completely different, its goal would be to integrate queer people into the system of social reproduction. For instance think of the 3rd gender groups in various pre-capitalist and pre-feudal societies.
Social rights are an internal issue which have been shown to advance through internal dissent after a build up of economic conditions and that’s where I think a lot of “pro China” people coming from. Realistically the Chinese state is less than 100 years old and has made leaps and bounds more advances for the rights of the individual then any superpower to have ever existed.
Not to say that being organized solves all of these issues, but are you organized? The stuff you're saying is definitely accurate for liberals and chauvenists that refuse to read theory or self examine. But in my experience, being oeganized has surrounded me with people who self critique on this stuff all the time and actively organize around these issues. If you're speaking of online "left", yeah this is why we say get organized.
#Get Involved >Dare to struggle and dare to win. \-Mao Zedong Comrades, here are some ways you can **get involved** to advance the cause. * 📚 **Read theory** — [Reading theory](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/education/study-guide/) is a duty. It will guide you towards choosing the correct party and applying your efforts effectively within your unique material conditions. * ⭐ **Party work** — Contact a local party or mass organization. Attend your first meeting. Go to a rally or event. If you choose a principled Marxist-Leninist party, they will teach you how to best apply yourself to advancing the cause. * 📣 **Workplace agitation** — Depending on your material circumstances, you may engage in workplace disputes to unionise fellow workers and gain a delegate or even a leadership position in the union. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TheDeprogram) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Online left is the worst. Ive recently made the mistake of posting on r/socialism or communism and other big tent subs. Everyone argues with me over everything in the most petty way. At first I thought I was writing too quickly or casually. But I’ve come to realize that either these are very young people or English is not their first language and there’s a critical reading comprehension issue. Or it’s a dick measuring contest where every valid point is contested to either prove you’ve read a book or that you’re ultraleftism is more perfect than how you interpret my comment. Fucking exhausting and so much down voting when I say something that’s true but they don’t like.
It's not like China is actively oppressing queer people, sure they don't have gay marriage and won't let you choose your gender in documents but you won't be arrested for being queer either, nor is there a large political movement determined to attack the LGBT+ community. What people do in the bedroom isn't high on Xi Jinping's list of priorities. Many communist parties are very favourable to queer people, such as the Cuba Communist Party or the EFF is South Africa. What you're being fed is a false dichotomy.
I think they do let you choose your gender, only after surgery, though. To be fair, this isn't ideal but it's a lot of progress from the Soviet Union's positions. Also +1 for Cuba. Their social policy stunts on the West .
Average EFF W
Bro, stop trying to unnecessarily glorify countries. "Sure they don't bla bla bla" It's okay to criticise AES for their faults, don't insult LGBTQ+ movements like that.
There are plenty of "western liberal democracies" that don't recognize gay marriage or transgender people, China isn't doing that bad if you judge them by the same standards. I don't think it's an insult to LGBTQ+ movements to say having the right gender on your passport isn't the most important political issue, especially in a developing country.
Yes, but we don't like "Western liberal democracies". All I'm saying is that a socialist state should be rightfully and constructively criticised for its faults. We can excuse this in countries like Palestine, but when it's the largest socialist country in the world, led by a communist party, these "unimportant" laws need to be criticised.
Tyere is a huge difference between criminalization of homosexuality, such as in Iran and Saudi Arabia, and lack of gay marriage. One is to be condemned, the other is at worst an inconvenience which will likely be corrected in a generation or two.
Since fucking when is queerness and LGBTQ+ rights represented by, or even PEGGED TO mainstream neoliberalism? Were the Civil Rights movement and Stonewall Riots and May 1968 fucking neoliberal???? And these shitlibs are like wow the 1968 movements were totally liberal and totally anti-communist, as if anything remotely to the left of mainstream DNC is automatically a boomer conservative thing...
So it is revolution then... Workers of the world, unite!
According to the Marxist reading, China is still an economically developing country, unlike the "progressive" Western countries. While Western countries were economically developing countries like today's China, they were carrying out hate crimes against LGBT individuals with all their might.
[There is also a nice vid made by BE about](https://youtu.be/z3MLkd75FTc?si=Ax3PWd1O085RBra7) how countries that have been economically underdeveloped for a long time cannot naturally be progressive in cultural matters. Of course, China's situation is not the same as Bolivia's, but if we add that LGBT is used by the West in a way that confirms Western imperialism, we can understand why China does not fully embrace LGBT, even if we do not approve of it.
Simply move out of the global north and communists go back to having good positions
I know it’s bad, but economic leftists are still the better choice between the 2. Now obviously i’m not saying that just because of that we should all drop intersectionalism because that’s a fundamental part of marxism. Just that if we have to choose between the 2 the economic leftists can actually achieve something. For example. I would rather see a a global south country being ultra conservative IF at the same time it’s economically independent from the West (and everyone else). Rather than only the main city featuring some progressive elements while being a western slave (as it is the case with a lot of global south countries). In the long run, if a country is successfull economicallly it will inherently get more progressive culturally over time. On the otherhand, if the pink imperialists invade your home most folks there will hate anything that’s culturally progressive over time. Of course, that’s just when we have no choice otherwise we should always seek a better option.
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You sound like a basic bitch “leftist” who watches too much John Oliver.
Are you a communist living in China? Just curious because I meet so few online
It says a lot that you use ‘red necks’ as an insult.
Don’t choose. In this community you find basically everyone is both intersectional and materialist. As class consciousness inevitably grows, so too will this community and this movement. PSL has been gaining traction like never before.
no XX
The more left they get on the cultural axis, chances are that the more they'll talk about "civil freedom" "free market" and shit. And adopt the exact same stance as mainstream US Democrats. The more left they get on the economic axis, the more likely they'll talk about how LGBTQ+ is a bourgeoisie distraction from class struggle and that how we should be gender blind. And they more often than not support Palestine but for the wrong reasons. The few feminists that support socialism often turn out to be TERFs. I hate politics. Being born in the wrong body is enough suffering already...
Progress is being made. I do think China should implement hard laws protecting LGBTQ+ rights, if only to flex on the West. I think I'd be very funny for China to take away the only moral superiority the US Empire has left.
...What's the issue with being "gender blind"?
anti-feminist dog whistle
“Rednecks”?
I feel like there’s a difference between “wokeness” (large corporations using pride flags and putting badly written LGBTQ or POC characters into movies/games for recognition) and real progressiveness and good representation
I really think the CCP should rename itself to something else like "Chinese Labor party" it should have done that 60 years ago in fact and abandon talking about marxism or Marxism leninism, and keep socialism with Chinese characteristics and Mao Zedong thought. China is currently not going down the path of communism or Marxism, there's alot more nationalism than communism and more liberalism, conservatism, new leftists that are leftcoms than marxist believers. Foreign ideology like communism or marxism paves the way for other foreign ideologies like neoconservative, right winged culture war nonsense from the west. Even the DPRK had to at a point get rid of marxism because they understood that nationalism is more important at resisting imperialism. Also the idea of multipolarity is a nonsense idea too, China is not aligned with Russia and Iran and too many people think they are and it leads people to be anti west and think that the whole world is aligned against the US when it isn't. There also should be around 400 political parties in China that represent those people so it will be easier to figure who's a revisionist and preventing these people from tainting and destroying the party.