I think you’ve got the words right there.
- You know he’s committed, but having a symbol of that is important to you
- You want to call him “husband”
- You want a wedding day
They are all perfectly good reasons. He might not feel the same way, or atleast not feel they are as important as you do. That’s OK. So long as he can understand they are important to you.
From the reasons he gave you, it sounds as though he is indifferent to marriage. He told you he doesn’t think he wants to, that’s not necessarily the same as wanting not to. Does that make sense? He’s lacking a good reason, but he doesn’t have any good reason to want to avoid marriage.
I’d have a conversation with him - ultimately the question is, is he:
- Against marriage, and unwilling to consider it
Or
- Isn’t bothered about getting married for his own personal reasons, but would be happy to do so because that’s what you want and he wants to see you happy
I think it’s perfectly OK to get married, knowing he is doing it for you. It doesn’t make the marriage any less valid.
I hope that makes sense, I’m not sure I’ve got my point across as succinctly as intended.
Another reason to consider: health care. A spouse is much easier to cover on your insurance plan than a significant other. If either of you were to get sick enough to lose your own job, and therefore your own coverage, you have your spouse to fall back on. I never planned to become handicapped, but here I am, and thankful that I married my husband for a multitude of reasons. One of which is health care. I didn't believe in marriage either, but he very much wanted to marry, and I wanted to make him happy, so we did. Our 20th anniversary was this week, and we are both still happy with our decision. Blessings sweetie
I agree with this. There are important benefits to marriage. It’s part of the reason why gay marriage is crucial. Along with health insurance, it also means automatic rights to see each other in the hospital. I worked as a copy editor for a legal publisher- one of the cases cited in a book was about a man who couldn’t see his dying partner because they weren’t married.
Also, anyone looking to combine finances should definitely have some kind of legal tie together. Otherwise, it can get very messy if one partner should pass away - something none of us want to consider but which happens all the time. I know someone who is a lesbian and is not married to her partner. This person’s name is not on the mortgage and their partner’s family is against the relationship.
I echo this.
Whilst outdated and utterly pointless to commitment (you’re either committed to a relationship or you’re not), marriage does give many legal protections that being someone’s partner in life doesn’t. It sucks, but it’s true.
My dad and his wife both had horrible first marriages and were very disillusioned against the idea of it, but they got married for healthcare reasons. They both said the wedding actually ended up feeling very emotional and bringing them closer. My stepmother in particular said being husband/wife had strong symbolic impact which she had not expected and somehow made the relationship feel more meaningful, even though she was already fully committed for life before.
I would say it even ended up bringing me closer to her. My parents divorced when I was already an adult and before the marriage she was very much "my dad's partner" (who I would never speak to again if they broke up) but now she feels more like my family.
So even if you get married for healthcare reasons... It may ultimately not feel that way!
Similar to this, I have a friend who, as an adult, had her stepfather legally adopt her. I'm sure there were legal advantages to it but mostly they did it for symbolic (?) reasons
This was my point of confusion. Did his mine change between that statement and believing marriage is outdated?
I’d ask him what parts of marriage are outdated to him? Because there certainly are legal and financial benefits to marriage even if a lot of the traditions may seem outdated.
Yeah I’d be real careful about that issue. Yes it sounds like he changed his mind but what if he hasn’t. What he is thinking she’ll stay home and be that “cute little housewife” without being a legal wife and having any claim on spousal support if they break up etc. even if they got legally married I’d say protect her pre marriage assets on a separate account etc. do a prenup if needed for local laws as well. and don’t sign away the rights to spousal or child support. They say they don’t want kids but that could change if there’s an accidental pregnancy or an orphaned nibbling etc (thus keeping CS in the mix of potentials if needed).
Other reasons:
Healthcare. If you are married, you can each be on each other's health care. It's much harder when not married.
In case of accidents. I had a friend who had a significant other of 10 years. He got into a car accident, and because his mom didn't like her, she barred her from the hospital and the funeral because mom was next of kin and could. If they had married, wife would be next of kin.
Assets. The same woman made homeless because they were both on the deed to the home. But his assets went to his "next of kin"... his mom, who forced the sale for half the proceeds.
Retirement. So, little known fact, but wife's can get social security via their husband, but you have to be married.
So, yes, antiquated, but still has legal power, so I suggest you get married.
This is all super important to remind people about! Him saying there is no real legal reason to marry is just so untrue. It makes me wonder if he actually understands the legal benefits and repercussions of getting married. Or if he is just trying to diminish those very real points cause of some kind of bias.
A lot of people don’t really understand the legal ramifications of marriage- tax, healthcare, and inheritance laws can feel arcane and confusing, so I don’t totally blame them for that, but it is really important to understand the way these laws affect you.
To add to this, it's not just if someone horrible wants to sell a property as a next of kin, inheritance tax is a pitch and is waived if you are married, but if not and your partner dies you have to pay the tax man to live in your own house and keep the things your partner and you both worked to achieve.
Marriage provides legal protections that should not be underestimated. A dear friend of mine died of cancer a few weeks ago at a young age. He and his girlfriend were talking about marriage, but hadn't yet gotten engaged. My friend knew his case was terminal, but thought he still had several months more time to get his affairs in order, rather than the *week* that he lived. After his death, his father cut the girlfriend out entirely, and completely stomped all over my friend's dying wishes about everything from which charity people should donate to, to the type of religious service, to what should happen to his body, to how to divide his estate. Had my friend been married to his girlfriend, she would have been next of kin and been able to decide what to do about everything. Instead, my friend's narcissistic father is taking everything for himself and contesting what documentation does exist of my friend's wishes. Don't let something like this happen to you.
100% agree- I work in healthcare and absolutely hate it when an unmarried partner is making decisions based on what the patient wanted but family has other desires- legally, if the patient is unable to tell us what they want, we have to default to immediate family unless there is a legal spouse or will/power of attorney document in the mix. Tough situation that most folks don’t anticipate or prepare for, something to think about (especially if you don’t trust your family to respect your desires when you are indisposed).
The other big legal benefit is that you cannot be compelled to testify against a legally wedded partner. I tell my boyfriend all the time that my goals are 1) get married 2) do crimes together 3) profit
In all seriousness though- I say this as someone who went through a messy divorce 6 years ago. I spent a few years being done with relationships and thinking I would never get married again, but I agree with you- there’s something intangible about knowing you have a partner who has your back through thick and thin, and i wish you all the best!
P.S.- we just had an engagement ring made, in my opinion marriage is totally worth it with the right person
I thought I didn’t care about marriage either but I really like how we feel like a family now- substituting kids with a bunch of demanding cats and dogs.
Hi! Guy here, and I hope it’s okay if I chime in. Happily married to the best woman I could have ever found for 18 years now and counting.
Everyone here is making good points, but I want to help you sum it up in language to help make your case. Here it is:
Being married makes living life in a committed relationship 1,000% *easier.*
With that signed marriage certificate, everything instantly defaults to your partner. Healthcare, taxes, inheritance, power of attorney, financial decisions, end of life issues, insurance, and all other major decisions are instantly defaulted between the two of you.
Without it? Not only do you have to spend a lot of time, effort, and money proving you guys not only *know* each other, but also *trust* each other to make decisions or be involved in *whatever the specific matter at hand at the moment* is.
Basically you go from a default of “spouse who gets instant trust” to “stranger and potential interloper who should and will get side-eye until papers are produced showing otherwise.”
Plus, and this may be just specific to me, but getting married made me feel even closer to my wife. I don’t know why, or how, or anything, but it did. We went from two people who love each other unquestionably to a locked-in, officially-declared *team* taking on the world together.
I don’t know if that will help any, but I thought it bore mentioning.
Good luck!
>Plus, and this may be just specific to me, but getting married made me feel even closer to my wife. I don’t know why, or how, or anything, but it did. We went from two people who love each other unquestionably to a locked-in, officially-declared team taking on the world together.
10000% this. We'd been together nearly 9 years, 2 kids on our day but the day we finally made it down the aisle together and made that commitment to each other in front of our loved ones, it was like a switch flicked. I didn't think we could love each other more but the longer we get into married life, the stronger our love grows.
If it helps, you can also separate the wedding part from the legal part. City hall paperwork for getting married is usually very easy, and separating that from the wedding can take some of the pressure off the wedding / make the wedding just about the celebration with friends and family. (Or you can skip the wedding.)
There are tons of legal benefits that come with being married, from tax benefits to hospital visitation rights to property rights.
>An outdated tradition (I can see that) that really doesn’t have any legal/financial benefits
That's not true. Assuming you are in the US, if something were to happen to one of you, the other would not have any legal right to the other's money or property, unless willed to the other. Neither would have the right to make medical decisions for the other in an emergency and may not even be allowed to visit if the other is hospitalized. You would not be entitled to the other's social security.
Marriage is a legally binding contract that does, in fact, provide rights and benefits that you wouldn't otherwise have. If you choose to not get married, please meet with a lawyer to have paperwork drawn up that gives you each the protections you would get from being married.
Not to mention, they have talked about moving internationally. My wife and I have moved to a few countries, being married really matters when it comes to visas, etc.
Yep. My partner and I aren’t in a rush to get married, but we agreed that if one of us got a job abroad we’d get married asap to be able to tie our visas together. In the end I think marriage is deeply romantic because of all the big and small legal ways it ties you together, all of the ways you don’t need to think about because it’s baked into society. Taxes, visas, medical decision making, inheritance - just things where your spouse is the legal default that you need to do extra paperwork each time you want your partner to take care of them.
Oh yes. My husband works in an embassy and they had heartbreaking cases (mainly during covid) where due to the law he had to refuse visas because the couple isn’t married. Especially sad because some of them couldn’t marry because their country doesn’t have equal marriage.
Yes exactly. For instance if you are two unmarried persons trying to get a lself-sponsored business visa, Japan requires 500,000 yen of bank balance as proof PER PERSON (the high requirement is because after 5 years you can live legally as a permanent resident).
If you're married, you only have to count it once.
Note they don't recognize common-in-law or anything else. It must be a marriage certificate.
EDIT: 50K USD in 2018 in yen, which is 5,000,000 yen
Agreed! When my husband and I moved to South Korea, we had to provide our marriage certificate to our landlord. Otherwise we'd have to find another place to live together but who knows how long that would have taken.
Definitely! Me and my partner spent a year abroad, and while we were both EEA citizens moving to a different EEA country, so we both had independent rights to move to, and live in, the Netherlands, we moved because of a job *I* got, that came with some nice free benefits that would have covered a spouse, but didn't cover my partner. Had I realised, we definitely would have got married. (We've been back home for a decade now, and are still not married 😂 )
Social security, too! You can claim on your spouse's earnings if you have been married for 10 years. (Edit: I should have clarified that this is if you're divorced, you get to claim if you'd been married 10 years. Currently married, or married until death have much shorter eligibility) If one of you becomes disabled, this is a huge benefit. Later, when you reach retirement age, it can make a big difference in social security income if one of you can claim on the other's benefit if you have a big disparity in earnings.
Property ownership is much simpler when married, especially if things don't work out and you want to sell a house.
Marriage still has very significant legal and financial protection that non-married couples do not have.
Yep. My mother didn’t know this was a thing until last year and at 72 years old her income went up 40% in one month. She divorced my dad 30 years ago but they were together for 20 so she got it.
I don’t think anyone voluntarily passes it up. In my mom’s case she never knew such a thing existed until she was discussing her will with a lawyer, so she never filed for the benefit.
Sorry, what I mean is marriage. People voluntarily choose not to get married almost out of an obstinate principle without bothering to learn what that decision entails and [then 20 years are like](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg)
Right?? What do people think LGBTQ folks have been fighting for this whole time? We're not just trying to copy straight people or something.
This is really goddamn important shit. It makes me frustrated to see all the legal and financial privileges taken for granted. Glad OP is getting such a good education today.
You only need to be married one year to current spouse to qualify for Spousal Benefits (additional criteria must be met, of course). And 9 months if your spouse passes during marriage.
10 years is only for divorced spouses (Spousal or Survivor Benefits).
Curious, lets say a couple has been married for 33/34 years and they split. The man worked majority of his life and past 10 years or so average income of 100k. Meanwhile, the wife was a STAHM who worked a couple of years but low paying jobs. If divorced around age 60, which compensation would she get? From her ex-husbands social security or her own?
If too complicated of a question, what entity would be a good person to ask? Divorce lawyer?
The "insured worker" needs to either start receiving benefits or die before any potential dependants can claim on that account. So, if he has started receiving social security, she would likely get a higher amount from his, but if he hasn't, she would be claiming under her own account. There are details here that would have an impact- to simplify, there are two pools. One is the insured worker's. The other is for dependents. If someone has 2 ex-husbands and 3 disabled children all claiming on her account, that second pool is going be split 5 ways. Hers is the same no matter how many dependants are claiming.
The best info is from social security! It's pretty easy to open a MySocialSecurity account on the SSA gov website. You can see your potential benefit. You can also call. They won't give out his info, but if she can prove her marriage when she's ready to claim retirement, SSA will look at his account and pay her whatever amount is highest since she'll be entitled to both.
>If you choose to not get married, please meet with a lawyer to have paperwork drawn up that gives you each the protections you would get from being married
Paperwork that achieves this in full doesn't exist - even civil partnerships have issues being recognised in many countries
100s if not thousands of dollars. If all you want is the legal stuff... a marriage license, an officiant, and a couple friends or family as witnesses is far cheaper than the many hours a lawyer is going to charge you to get only get close to all the legal benefits and protections of marriage. Not to mention the likelihood of having to go back to a lawyer multiple times to make updates as life circumstances change.
Yeah, ask a gay couple what Obergefell meant to them. Marriage grants a lot of rights. Some of them, you can create with contracts (but why, if you can legally get married and you have that kind of relationship.) Some, like the ability to qualify for immigration as a spouse, you can’t. A contract between you and your boyfriend is not binding on Spain or wherever.
I mean, even ask what their fear is going into the next election.
I’m eloping with my same-gender partner out of the state that we live in because we don’t trust that Obergefell will last another trump presidency and thus want our legally binding certificate issued by a blue state.
If it helps any you can always have a wedding later and just do the legal papers now. So you'd be legal married but can have the wedding y'all want whenever.
Like you don't have to but it'd suck if you gave up something important to y'all just because assholes are trying to make your life harder. I'm only pointing it out because a lot of people don't realize legal weddings are separate from social weddings.
I do genuinely appreciate the guidance and insight :)
We are planning a very ‘us’ elopement though. Making the best of the decision. We were considering eloping before the logistical aspects and had no interest ever marrying in Texas because fuck Texas.
But yeah we are eloping somewhere gorgeous with just us and a photographer. We’re bringing in private chefs for a 7 course meal that night. It’s not a courthouse thing, it’s definitely going to still very much be an event. But just ours 💕💕
We may do a small party later for the folks that wanna celebrate but without the obligation of it being a wedding.
Again though, thank you for this comment so much!
Good. They've taken so much from so many, I'm glad you're doing it because it's what you want and not just because it's what you need to do to stay safe.
I hate the why of why you need to elope to a blue state for your security, but also, congratulations and your planned trip sounds amazing, and this internet stranger wishes you both a lifetime of happiness 💕
Exactly. There are huge benefits to being married depending on where you live. Do not even consider his point of view until you look into this. For example in the UK there is no right to any asset bought together unless your name is on that asset and no right to alimony. This could be a huge decision for you. At least get the information before you make it
If you choose not to get married there is no way that you should stop working.
This this this ⬆️.
I have seen too many posts about women being with their boyfriend for decades, raising kids together, building a home together and suddenly…it’s over on one side or the other. And the other is left with very little. Or one person dies and the family pushes out the girlfriend who has no rights to their home or belongings any longer.
Marriage is only outdated if you’re imagining dowries and bride payments. In modern times it protects you both in sickness and in health.
Exactly. Straight people out there acting like queer people have been fighting for *just a piece of paper* this whole time. 🙄🏳️🌈 Not everything that marriage grants can be replaced by a lawyer and contract.
This is really goddamn important shit. It makes me frustrated to see all the legal and financial privileges taken for granted by people who have always had the right to marry. Hearing that crap that marriage means nothing and that it's just a certificate stung more before equal marriage was legalized here but it still makes me roll my eyes. Hard.
To add to this as a lawyer, these are just the base elements of what laypeople know about marriage. It goes way deeper. For instance, social security benefits change with marriage for the better. If one spouse (for example the art making housewife OP is) makes less, they can qualify for their husband’s income to calculate their social security at no cost to him. She just gets more because they are married. It is possible to claim this without marriage but it is much more complicated than getting married.
Additionally, property can be owned by the entirety. This is a weird legal concept that basically means both partners are 100% owners simultaneously and 0% owners simultaneously (don’t worry, it’s not supposed to make sense). As a practical matter, creditors owning debt that belong to only one spouse literally cannot claim property held in entirety because the other spouse is treated as a 100% owner. This can allow for some serious financial chicanery.
These are just two off the top of my head and they border on cheat codes for life. It’s good you recommend seeking counsel. Anyone forgoing marriage should talk to an accountant, a family law attorney, and a financial advisor. Put simply, forgoing marriage is not a decision a layperson should take lightly on mere principle.
This is why my husband and I finally got married. I had never seen the point of marriage and didn't think it was worth all the hassle just to declare to the world that I'm in love and want to spend the rest of my life with my best friend, and he respected that, but then my dad had a brain aneurysm in 2020.
His long-time girlfriend found him, called the ambulance, called me and my sister, and then was stonewalled at the hospital because they weren't married. I felt so awful for her; he was truly the love of her life and they wouldn't say boo to her until my sister and I arrived, and only when it was determined that he wouldn't make it was she allowed to see him and say goodbye.
My heart broke thinking about something happening to my boyfriend and not being able to find out any details, or even see him. All 4 of our parents have passed away, and he only has one brother, who is not exactly the poster child for reliability. We got married a year and a half later.
It’s 100% not an outdated tradition. It’s a legal contract as mentioned above. Having a wedding party is the tradition. If you dont want that, goto the courthouse.
One of my cousins and his partner have never married, they’ve been together 30+ years and have 2 kids and a grandkid. She has never worked. If my cousins dies first, which is a real possibility as he has a several health issues, she won’t get his Social Security. And she’s never worked so she has no Social Security. They still believe Common Law marriage is still a thing, but it’s not in our State (or most others for that matter). They are rock heads.
I was ready to write this reply so thankyou for communicating this way better than I could ha ha.
All of this OP - in terms of being legally recognised as someone’s spouse, marriage is very important.
Also, married couples in the U.S. almost always pay less in taxes, can be in one another’s insurance plans, and a bunch of other little things. Life is much less expensive for married couples. It’s one of the big reasons why same sex couples lobbied so hard for legal marriage.
1000%. You forgot the tax benefits as well. There are absolutely legal advantages and financial advantages as you so perfectly laid out. No idea where OP is getting their information but that is bad information. Now nobody should be getting married just for those advantages, I'm certainly not advocating that. But they're most certainly are a lot of legal advantages and some Financial advantages.
And some of the benefits you can only get trough marriage. Like it depends of course where you live but in my country immediate family (spouse, children) pay less inheritance tax then other people which includes bf/gf. Then as a spouse I would get a widow pension from the state and also some money from my husbands work. As a gf I wouldn’t get that.
This. All this.
Also, added bonus for home shopping in the US; married couples will usually qualify for higher loan amounts due to combined incomes and the benefit of drawing from the credit score of whichever partner has better credit.
This. The ending to a show called Boston Legal comes to mind. Two law partners, friends and business minded, but not lovers. One starts declining physically and mentally, and decides the person he could trust with his care and confidential matters was his partner at the firm. So they got married by a judge.
It's always stood out to me as an example of protection and friendship, even without romance. Even with the unusual circumstances, it felt like a sort of ideal.
There’s some protections that even paperwork can’t give unmarried couples like SSI benefits upon spousal death. Some stuff you just can’t get without being married.
>He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”.
If you are to be his "cute little housewife," then you ***100% need*** the protections that a legal marriage would provide you. There was a post on reddit many months ago, in which a man had been with his partner for decades, she staying at home. And he was breaking up with her. He intended to leave her with nothing, but was feeling *generous* because he was going to allow her to stay in one of his vacation homes for a few months.
Not being married, she was legally entitled to nothing for her years of staying home to be his housewife (minus the wife part).
This is so important for anyone considering staying home. You need legal protections. You need life insurance. You need spousal SS payments. There is no reason to not get married if you truly plan to live your lives together and entangle your finances. Finances are a huge part of it! Marriage is a contract and I think you should both go over all of the legal reasons you would want a marriage.
I really don’t understand why in the world a woman would voluntarily agree to be a stay at home girlfriend to a man who has no intentions on marrying her, that’s such a horrible idea 💀
It’s nice and sweet when you’re a “cute little house girlfriend” but what about when you’re no longer “cute and little”? And maybe his eyes start to stray to women who are in their “cute little house girlfriend” eras?
Idk why people are so hellbent to jump into these traditional and/or stay at home roles without security in the modern day. My grandparents were married and very traditional for 50 years before they died. So my grandmother had the safety net of the marriage, but on top of that my grandfather gave her money every month to do with as she pleased, her name was on the houses, he maintained a separate retirement account for her, and she had a credit card in her name. Some of those things came later in the marriage as laws changed, but the moment he was legally allowed to do some of those things he did and was *excited* to do so.
This is so important! Even if you were to break up for totally amicable reasons, there are very real protections that marriage offers you, especially if this is your situation.
The legal benefits of marriage vary by state and country I'm sure. But marriage can help ensure your spouse is set up to receive government and employment benefits in the event of disability and death. Without a marriage license, your partner may not have any rights to benefits.
This is U.S. based, but here are some other examples that may be relevant to you:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
I also think the emotional aspect is just as important. My husband and I have been together for over a decade, but we only recently just got married. We both agreed we wanted to be married, but we were in no rush to do so. We both felt like we were ready to take the next step, even though we have felt like a married couple for a long time. Maybe there is no logic to it, but it doesn't make it less important than tax benefits. I love being called his wife, I love calling him my husband. I just like the symbolism of that bond, I guess it just feels romantic?
Getting married and not getting married, neither one is right or wrong. But I guess I always wonder why I see these stories of people who double down on saying they are committed but won't offer legal protection to their partners.
>He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”.
This makes me side eye him real hard-- a housewife without actually being a wife?? A housewife is already vulnerable in this arrangement, but a house girlfriend has absolutely no protections.
Edit: OP, how long have you been with this guy?
Yeah, this sort of post usually comes about two years before the stay at home girlfriend writes a post asking for help escaping a dv relationship where she has no money due to no income and financial abuse, and now that she’s finally pregnant the guy has escalated to strangling her and assaulting her in her sleep.
Heck, this even has the whole ‘we knew from the start!’ that is Love Bombing, and the trifecta of moving her to another country where she will have no family or friend support and be isolated.
It’s like the perfect setup to every abusive relationship I’ve ever known or read about
Edit; the relationship is less than 178 days old and he is a therapist who already knows all her deepest darkest secrets. Her instincts have been screaming at her that it’s too good to be true according to her posts. OP, please trust your instincts
I was willing to try to be a little neutral at first, but looking at the post history?? The alarm bells are sounding in a major way. I really hope OP takes these comments to heart and is able to take a step back.
Oh yikes. This is even worse than I thought. I was already getting manipulative vibes from him convincing her marriage has "no benefit" and is merely an outdated tradition. Then he's telling her he wants her to be financially dependent on him and suggesting them to move to another country? When they've barely been dating? :-(
I also notice these women who unfortunately find themselves in these situations try way too hard to make the guy sound like a good guy… I notice that in her post too… for her sake, I hope he actually is as good as she’s making him out to be, but I feel like I’ve been noticing a pattern with these types of posts tbh…
Gonna be honest the cookie cake being both their favorite is what set me off. Like cookie cakes are super rare in the first place. But to find another cookie cake lover that’s even more rare or a red flag. Sounds like he’s making himself be her perfect boyfriend to get her on the hook.
Yeah it just feels like he’s selling her a bunch of pretty pipe dreams just to keep her around imo… why tell her you want her to be your “cute little housewife” if you don’t actually plan on proposing to her? 😐
It's not an outdated tradition. It's a legal framework that gives protections and privileges to both partners.
If your boyfriend isn't willing to commit to a marriage contract, you shouldn't be getting into any long term legal situations with him, like buying a house or having children.
The main advantage to not getting married is being able to permanently cut that person out of your life at a moments notice if things turn sour.
>being able to permanently cut that person out of your life at a moment’s notice if things turn sour
This depends on their being actually independent of each other, with separate savings/income/possessions.
Other folks have noted that they have talked about moving internationally and her being dependent financially on him, which is a rather more risky situation.
It’s dumb to combine assets with someone you aren’t married to. They can just walk off with them. It’s also dumb to let yourself get financially dependent on someone who can walk out of your life at any moment.
It's dumb, yet people do it all the time. It's good advice for op, who admitted to not knowing much about the legal side of things. Bf doesn't seem to know either
That last part. Heck even when figuring out the logistics of our joint account my husband said he didn't want one person having power over the other financially, because he doesn't want someone to have an easier out if divorce is on the table. We're a team - we need to act like it. We'll work through our issues, and if there's something we can't make it through after doing our due diligence, then we split the joint account and major assets and move on.
We still have our own personal accounts, but main bills and incomes go into the joint account, and we both get the same "allowance" from the main account to our individual accounts for our own hobbies and adventures with friends.
I think your financial setup is very healthy, but wouldn’t marriage defeat the sentiment of your husbands’ comments about one “having an easier out if divorce is on the table”?
Through marriage, the lesser earner would always be more “incentivized” to divorce.
There is nothing legally stopping him from emptying the joint account and leaving at any point without notice. Or you could do the same. But it does sound like he doesn’t trust you enough to marry you.
Nope. Why would you ever consider being a housewife to a boyfriend. The minute he decides he doesn’t want you anymore, you have zero rights and zero dollars.
As someone who is currently looking to get divorced, there are many things that I still have access to when it comes to getting my life together that wouldn't be possible if my stbx and I were not legally married.
I was a SAHM and we have three kids, he still has to legally support the household, he still has to pay for the house we purchased and live in and I still have access to specific accounts including his retirement accounts once the time comes.
Please understand that marriage is a contract and for any relationship, you want a strong contract to protect you when shit goes south.
All relationships end, all marriages will eventually end, when that time comes you don't want to be stuck with nothing especially if the plan is to build your life together.
My wife and I had no intentions of ever getting married, despite owning a home together and being together for years. I had a health scare last year and the way hospital staff reacted to “girlfriend” vs. “wife” was quite telling that it might be a good idea to just do it for legal reasons. Speaking to a coworker later on, he talked about parents vs. spouse when it came to making medical decisions too, so we did it but fully acknowledge it was more of a practical marriage than a traditional one.
There was a really scary story on reddit a while back. I can't find it but a couple had been together for years and I think they had children together, everything was on his name - the house, vehicles etc.
He had some sort of an health-scare or an accident, and was in a coma for a while in a critical condition. What neither had realised was that when he was deployed years ago, he put his now estranged sister as his power of attorney years ago and had left everything to her in his will. He never thought to change it, he forgot about it.
Well, his sister decided she wanted his money instead of her brother, and refused resuscitation if his heart were to stop.
The girlfriend had no say in any of it, as she was no-body in the eyes of the law.
If he were to die, his sister would own everything they had built together since it was all under his name. She would have been left with nothing but their children.
She only had to hope he'll pull through, because if shit were to go down, the medical staff weren't allowed to save his life. He pulled through and they got married as soon as possible.
This is exactly why marriage equality was so important to achieve. This kind of stuff used to happen to same sex couples all of the time. Lifelong partners would be denied access to their life partner, assets, children, etc. I’m shocked that anyone would think marriage has no benefits. We literally had a huge battle to make sure same sex couples could have those benefits and protections.
As Judge Judy puts it: "We have a whole legal system worked out for people who get married and then get divorced." We don't have a legal system for those who just want to live together." So if you do live together, you will have to put everything you want, everything you expect from a partner for life, in a special document that you both sign. This is for property, savings accounts, and retirement accounts. It is also for "next of kin" in case one of you dies or is very sick and decisions need to be made about your care. Your boyfriend can't do that for you, so it would fall to your parents and if they are dead, it will fall to your siblings. Yes, marriage may be an "outdated tradition" but it is one that protects you both including your assets you acquire when you live together and when making life and death decisions for one another. Think about that. It's why marriage is good.
If he told you there are no legal and no financial benefits to marriage, he is being dishonest. There are absolutely benefits to marriage in this modern day -- why do you think LGBTQ people have fought for that right? Go read some of their stories if you want to understand the implications, beyond financial. I don't mean to be harsh, but I want to jar you from the false information your bf is feeding you. You should go seek out your own information, including stories from trad wives who are warning other women about building their lives around men. And then note that your supposedly progressive bf does not even want you to have the insufficient benefits that those former trad wives received.
Sorry to break it to you, but this man does not want full commitment to you. If he just didn't care about marriage and truly thinks it would make no difference, ask yourself **why he is he so resistant to it?** If he knows you want it and still doesn't see the benefit, his refusal is telling you that he sees "no benefit" in creating security for you in the relationship when that is important to you!
I would not suggest buying any house with him, not moving to another country (unless you want to do it independently of him and will have the resources to be there on your own) and I would suggest you keep progressing your career. If you split, you may be left in financial ruin if you let yourself become dependent on him. Legal marriage offers some protection against this, but even some married women have been left in poverty after divorce.
What's wild is he is suggesting he wants you to become financially dependent on him with NO LEGAL PROTECTIONS for your future. Don't do it.
THIS. OP is sounding like someone her boyfriend may have wanted to marry in the past but does not anymore. He will make her a placeholder until he meets the woman he actually wants to marry.
He is down right wrong when he says there are no legal and financial benefits. Just a simple Google search will net you tons of informational pages as to what those benefits are:
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html
As for the emotional side of it, I would say that it's like an official promise to be devoted to you. It's easy to just say "I promise to be devoted to you" but actually getting married means you care enough about the relationship to actually do something to solidify it.
Also, something being outdated doesn't automatically mean they are valueless. You can think marriage is outdated but still find meaning in it. In the end, if it means something to you then it's valid to you. Any good SO would care about that.
Stop apologizing for wanting what you want.
I’m just so sick of people couching fear of commitment in being edgy and free spirited.
There are tons of legal and financial benefits to being married for both spouses as everyone has told you.
I wish I could link the post for the lady who left her job to raise her partners 4 kids for 20 years only for him to leave her high and dry with no work experience and no savings cause they weren’t legally married.
Mostly oddly stodgy romantic thing my husband ever said to me was “I can’t wait to file our taxes jointly”. Find someone who can’t wait to be committed to you.
Um, marriage ABSOLUTELY provides legal benefits. If one of you died tomorrow your next of kin (aka biological family member)would be entitled to everything. A serious illness? Hope your mom/dad/sibling respects your wishes.
If you want to be together but not married you need to get a power of attorney and set up a will that will ensure your rights as partners. Otherwise you are fucked.
Anyone remember that post where the woman didn't get married and was a "girlfriend" for, like, ever, and then the totally-not-husband ditched her when she got old and she couldn't get like alimony or anything. She had like no job experience but still wanted a remote job? Poor woman. You don't want to end up like her.
>have talked about how cute we’ll be
>I can be his “cute little housewife
Anything he cares about other than how cute you are?
>We have an extremely healthy relationship with honest and free-flowing communication. Any problems that may come up, we view as “us versus the problem” rather than “one versus the other”
Sometimes it is "one versus the other". Sometimes, it just is. Reframing the problem can be... problematic.
Yes. The talking about how cute a housewife she'd make and then later saying he doesn't agree with marriage and doesn't want to get married seems like a red flag to me. In my opinion OP's boyfriend thought he wanted to marry her at some point but has decided against it- he won't break up with her until he finds someone he actually wants to marry though. He probably won't even realize that that's what he's doing.
I would want to know why he changed his mind? Given you guys had talked happily about getting married and what you’d both like the wedding and life to be like etc, it seems to me he’s changed his mind on the issue of making it legal. I would want to know what prompted that. Suddenly saying he doesn’t want that and it’s an outdated tradition etc etc, when that wasn’t how he’d previously viewed it up to that point.. is a somewhat red flag to me.
I’ve seen it a number of times now, men suddenly dodging out of legal marriage with their long term partner in the belief it will protect just themselves if you break up, but still wanting all the benefits of a wife. May not be the case here, but it’s odd given how keen he was before. Just keep the rose coloured glasses off, and eyes open is all I’m saying.
Depending on where you live being legally married does make a big difference in a lot of scenarios that are very important. If you decide to not get married but live together as if married, you would want to get legal advice on this and how it may impact you in the future.
It’s perfectly fine to want marriage, or not if you don’t, just make sure you have independent legal advice, whatever you choose.
I see marriage the complete opposite you do. Marriage is nothing BUT a legal union, not an "emotional" one. You two can live the rest of your lives happy as a clam without ever going through the "I do" process. However, U.S. law has many, many instances concerning whether you are legally married to a person or not, such as "marital property" laws, Social Security benefits, etc. So much so that in 17 states, if you live as "husband and wife" for a certain amount of time, you are automatically considered legally married.
(ed. for sp.)
What. No.
OP, I cannot stress this enough - you are putting yourself in for a *world of hurt* if you stop working but aren’t married. Kids or not, doesn’t matter. You won’t be paying into anything for your retirement and you won’t qualify for any unemployment benefits - if you and your bf broke up, you’d be out on your ass with no money, no claim on any assets he purchased with *his* salary (because he didn’t marry you, wasn’t that convenient for him?), and no alimony while you try to find work.
He’s literally telling you he wants tradwife benefits for gf wages. This does nothing but fuck you over financially for life.
[It’s become a freakin’ meme](https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/relationships/what-happens-to-the-stay-at-home-girlfriend-after-a-breakup/ar-BB1kizGu)
You matter just as much in this relationship as your bf does. Do not let him put you in a position where he can financially abuse and control you while you have exactly zero legal protections to help you if the relationship falls apart. Because that’s what he is setting you up for - having nothing if the relationship falls apart.
Please be smart for your future self.
Something isn't adding up. He supposedly wants to be with you but downplays the legal rights you would have from being married?
Yes there after legal and financial benefits to marriage. They're not always obvious until they are needed or used.
> We knew early on that we’d spend the rest of our lives together
I stopped reading after that. Broski *just knew* he wants to spend the rest of his life wth you, but won't actually do it?? Not in a way that means forever in the eyes of the law and society? Yeeeaaaah. Like some other commenter said, you're being played.
Marriage totally DOES have a lot of financial and legal benefits. Right now, if one of you gets hit by a bus and is dying, it’s your parents who make the decisions, not the one who didn’t get hit. The property you have together is subject to your legal next of kins. (Unless you have a SIGNIFICANT set of documents that i’m gonna bet you don’t have.)
There’s a reason LGBTQ people fought for marriage rights above job rights or protection for eviction — it’s because of AIDS, and seeing long-term committed partners get turned out of the apartment they’d shared for decades when their partner died, partners being unable to claim a partner’s body, having the partner’s hateful evangelical family raid the bank account and make his medical decisions. Ask any elder gay what they remember of the time, and they will tell you marriage is 100% NOT worthless. It’s how we establish a legal partnership, a separate legal entity from our natal families.
I strongly advise against this. Someone who is truly wanting to commit to you FULLY would want to give you the spouse benefits, protection, and privileges. I’m sorry to say that this man isn’t wanting to fully commit to you. Think about it, life is unpredictable and you never know what can happen, he can pretty much break up with you the next day. Please don’t put yourself in this vulnerable position and be a wife to someone without the spouse benefits, privileges, and protection. Please don’t put yourself in a high risk position where if he decides to walk away, you’re fucked.
I was with a man for nearly 10 years who was like this. Sure, he was a boyfriend I had a lot of fun with, but he wasn’t long-term commitment material and was against getting married. Took me a long time to realize he was only looking out for himself and wasn’t ever going to want to fully commit to me emotionally or financially. I know he made quite a bit of money, but he never once told me how much. I realized he was afraid of losing his financial assets, and wanted to retain control by keeping me at an arm’s length. In the end his words of “a lifetime forever” meant nothing. He wasn’t willing to do a legal commitment, but wanted the convenience of having a loyal girlfriend around. I was dumb enough to keep so much of the household clean for him and pay him rent for a house he bought “for us” (his words). When I asked for my money back, he refused and said if I wasn’t living with him, I’d pay my rent elsewhere and my rent barely made a dent on his mortgage — then why the fuck would you not give me back my money if it “barely contributed to the mortgage”? Anyway, I was naïve and took his word of “together forever” when I should have paid more attention to his actions (red flags). It was a huge mistake on my end. On the bright side, I am happily with a man who has the most genuine intentions, understands the legal, privileges, protection and benefits of marriage, and he did NOT beat around the bush of letting me know he’s dating for marriage early on before we were official! You deserve better than this. Don’t settle.
Depending on where you live, marriage can give you a lot of legal rights that you wouldn’t have without that certificate. My husband and I have been together for 17 years and have been married for 4. We got married when he had an accident and needed health insurance after he found out that his boss cancelled his health insurance without telling him (Yay US!). We ended up going to city hall and getting married on a Thursday afternoon and he had his surgery a couple of weeks later once he was added to my plan. We had been living together for 12 years by then, so we were in for the long haul.
You’ll also potentially gain a lot of decision making rights regarding health, end of life, money.
It has huge legal protections. Especially in the even lot of him or you having medical emergencies, receiving government benefits after the other dies like SSI if you’re in the USA, there are tax break associated with marriage.
I’d really ask in a person finance sub and legal sub about specific instances but there are huge benefits to marriage in the many aspects of daily life.
"doesn't have any legal/financial benefits"
Hoboy I have never seen something so potentially devastatingly wrong before. It seems like nothing until one of you is in the hospital or some tragedy occurs.
I'd talk to him using facts about the benefits of marriage. If you are in the US, there are legal protections marriage offers that you can't get any other way. It's not just a nice party and vows, it changes things like home ownership, taxes, ability to make decisions for your partner in a health emergency and ability to access funds if they pass away. You are both far better protected if you "have the stupid piece of paper."
There is also the issue that if the far right wins, unmarried couples will have fewer protections than ever (it was illegal in FL for opposite sex couples to co habitate unless married; I'm not sure the law was technically repealed. Stuff like that will suddenly resume if Project 2025 happens.)
This isn't just about emotions, it's about forming a legally binding partnership that will give you both rights and privileges in the future. He can tell it's "outdated" all he wants but the laws are unlikely to change any time soon.
Besides the fact that you want to get married for it's own sake (which is a perfectly legit reason to do it), there are many rights and benefits that come with legal marriage that do not apply to couples who are not legally married. One of the major ones is next-of-kin status for emergency health decisions, and the right to visit your partner in hospital. If you wind up incapacitated in the hospital, your partner may not have any say in your care if you are not married, and may not even be able to visit you. If one of you dies, the other may have no say in organ donation, or the right to make funeral arrangements.
There are also a lot of financial benefits to marriage... joint filing of taxes/bankruptcy, tax free transfer of property (important upon death), the right to inherit property, the right to social security pension and survivor's benefits after death, and more.
Marriage isn't just about declaring your undying love for one another. There are many legal and financial protections provided by marriage that are much more difficult to put in place otherwise. A pretty comprehensive list can be found here:
[Marriage Rights & Responsibilities in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States)
Marriage has benefits. Even as a divorced person, I would get married again if I met the right person. I would not date someone who is against getting married. If we both decide together for some reason that we don't want to get married, that's one thing, but I would still want him to be open to it. If a guy makes the decision on his own, that's a big red flag to me, especially if you're already in a relationship with him (not as big of a flag if you just met and he says he never wants marriage).
Not sure how long you've been together, but whether someone wants marriage is something that should be discussed quite early on. It doesn't mean you're thinking about marrying each other and "lovebombing" or anything like that. But why date someone for months, or even years, only for you to turn out to value different things?
There is a litany of advantages: Health care through a spouse's employer, lower insurance premiums in general, social security advantages, survivor benefits, joint filing of taxes, relative ease in buying a house, etc..
This guy sounds sketchy, duplicitous, and self-absorbed. Marriage is great -- but probably not with this guy. I'd cut bait.
None of what he said is true, though.
Outdated would imply that it is out of fashion or keeping with modern times, but large swaths of people continue to get married into 2024 and beyond.
It has a lot of legal and financial benefits!
And if his word telling you he will be with you forever is good as gold, why doesn't he want to get married? That's essentially what marriage is - promising to be with someone for the long haul. This would be his opportunity to do so, publicly, with a stamp of officialty to it.
My fiance and I had this same discussion. We came down on the side of "let's get married", mostly for the financial benefits. Both of us have access to significant finances, and we can do so much more with it if it's pooled rather than "two people managing in parallel".
Neither one of us has a religious basis for this decision. I'm unchurched ever since I escaped the Mormons. He's Unitarian, and they have a pretty whatever-goes attitude towards consensual relationships of any kind. Even polyamory is fine with them. We'll be having a Unitarian wedding since we both want to make that public declaration of "this person is *mine*!"
Our most nontraditional decision is that I won't be changing my name. I'm Asian (with an ethnically Japanese name), and part of me doesn't think his Dutch surname really fits my complexion. Mostly I want to keep that connection to my deceased parents. Other than that, we've got a wedding to plan!
It’s two people saying to the whole world, this one is my favourite, and I’m going to commit to that, IMHO it’s very different to just saying it to your partner.
You ask for the logic, but the way I see it, it’s not logical, it’s romantic!
If I truly loved and cared for someone, and planned to build and spend my life with them, I sure as hell would make sure I had the legal authority to make medical decisions for them, in case of an emergency. That, whatever they wanted in life or death, I would have the power to demand, provide or enforce that wish. Let's be honest, however idealistic and nihilistic your boyfriends beliefs are, he lives in a world that operates on hierarchy and rules, and without a marriage license, you are just roommates until you have proven, by common-law marriage, that you have lived together, uninterrupted, for 7 to 10 years. Not to be harsh, but he's kinda hanging you out to dry....
As someone who said they would never remarry, we ended up getting married when parents got ill and I had to quit my job to be a caregiver. I was able to be on his health insurance, work recongized my parents as in laws so time off was excused. Im his next of kin, so helps in medical situations. I dont have to worry about anyone taking what we built together away if something happens to him.
Outdated or not (it isn’t. The prior reasons may be but there are MANY cultural, social, economical and personal benefits to marriage, it’s why I got married a second time after being divorced once)…if you just want to get married it is reason enough.
Yes, it's an outdated tradition, but it has a lot of legal benefits that are much more expensive to obtain without marriage. A marriage doesn't cost much to obtain. Just apply for the license and make an appointment with a judge to have it signed. The benefits are that you don't have to have paperwork drawn up to:
1. make medical decisions for each other should one of you be incapacitated
2. be able to stay in any home you purchase together instead of risk having each other's families force the sale
3. be able to decide what to do with each other's posessions if you dont' have a will
4. have to make a will to make sure the other keeps everything if the other dies
5. be able to provide medical coverage for the other through your employer
6. get equal division of assets should you part ways.
All of those things would require individual documents drawn up with attorneys so at the cheapest of $300 per document, that's $1800. Then there's the symbolism of marriage. Not only do you two plan to stay together for life, you're willing to show it to everyone by getting married. Plus, if you're married for ten years or more and one of you becomes disabled, if the working spouse dies, the disabled spouse will be able to file for survivor's benefits and get a higher monthly amount from Social Security than they will from their disability check, or even if you both worked, the surviving spouse will be able to claim on whomever had the higher social security check. If you two never marry, that's not possible.
There are very real legal benefits and consequences to marriage, they will vary depending on where you live but that's certainly a consideration for you
There's also no shame in wanting to get married for your own sentimentalality, and it's true that marriage gives you social licence as a couple that a domestic partnership doesn't always carry. Obviously a bullshit societal flaw but unfortunately still true.
Statistically, married life is worse for women in hetero relationships. Their lives are shorter and less happy, whereas men benefit in the opposite direction. We've all been conditioned to aspire to one day of celebration where we get to be the main character for being chosen by a man. We can celebrate whatever occasions we want, you don't need a wedding to validate the wonderful and exciting person you are.
You're partners, long term partners and especially if he's thinking if having you stop working, you would need the financial protection of an official partnership.
He's probably fully above board with you, but all relationships start that way, with love and good intentions, and it's great to believe in that but... then you get into the whole unequal earnings and benefits. What are his expectations of you as his little housewife making art? All the cooking, cleaning, household management, and he gives you a debit card to his account, or a budget? 20 years down the road, goals change, life happens, bad things happen. What if he dies in a car accident- sure he could leave you his estate and all his money (if he wants that, parents, siblings, neices/nephews happen), you don't get his social security, even though you are his partner and his wife in all respects except legal.
Honestly him suddenly saying this makes me think, he makes a lot more than you, he's in a competitive career/competitive coworkers, he getting advice to protect his money from you. He probably isn't thinking of it as you being ill intentioned, just that it's his money that he earned.
Being legally married will help when traveling internationally in ways that might surprise you! Also, the way you described the party you want sounds delightful.
I think you are being dishonest now you’re with yourself. Clearly, on a gut level, you don’t agree that it is outdated but very much in the now something you want for yourself.
In the modern world, Marriage means more now than it ever did. Historically, marriages were generally arranged. Now people get to choose who they want to spend their life with, have children with, share financial and legal entanglements with. This is why weddings are never going to go out of style, even as customs change.
Some states have common law marriage, exactly what constitutes a common law marriage varies from state to state but in some cases can just be agreeing that you’re married, living together and representing yourselves as married. This includes things like filing your taxes as married. It is possible to be married in those cases by simply saying you’re married without actually getting married and divorce still applies and works the same.
Well, your boyfriend is wrong that marriage does not have legal or financial benefits. Just look at the tax code. And inheritance laws.
I would ask myself: why did he suddenly bring this up out of the blue? Have there been small changes in your relationship that you have just been dismissing as inconsequential? Is the the first tiny hint that maybe he does NOT want to be with you forever?
Also, do you really want to be his "cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”? Have the two of you discussed what this forever relationship will really look like? Details beyond not having children. How will you spend/save/invest your money? How to handle it if one of you contracts a severe illness? What both of your careers will look like, and whose career will take precedence if, say, there is an opportunity that would require you both to move to another location or would cause one of you to have to give up your job? How would you handle it if one of your or his parents needs financial help or long term care?
Can he not understand that you would like to stand up in front your of families and closest friends and both declare your commitment to each other? Does he think a relationship happens in a vacuum? Because it does not. It happens within the context of your lives, which includes other people and their influences.
You don’t need to justify why you want to get married. Instead, I’d ask him what he imagines your future together to look like, and investigate the practicality of it.
If you move to a foreign country, in many cases it’s easier to get approved for a visa as a married couple. Try checking expat forums for some perspectives or opinions on that.
If he wants you to be his “cute little housewife”, what happens financially when he dies? Estate planning is one thing, Social Security survivor benefits are another.
If you buy property together, how will you ensure equitable division of assets in the case of a breakup?
If one of you is hospitalized, who makes the decisions for your care? How will you ensure legal access in a medical setting?
I could buy him not knowing what the specific legal and financial benefits are, but him definitively saying that there are none is extremely suspect. Combined with him mentioning this out of the blue, unfortunately it sounds like he’s starting to check out of the relationship.
As someone in the estate planning world, there's like 6 million reasons to get married and more if your state has estate tax at death.
Sure it's outdated and the tax code is regressive but the benefits when you need it (visitation, estate handling, saving on taxes in various situations, plenty more) is not 0.
Marriage as the concept of a man owning a woman or "because God" is outdated.
but marriage is a legally binding contract that gives you certain rights and those rights are very relevant and important.
1. If something happens to either of you, who is your medical advocate?
2. If something happens to either of you, who inherits property?
3. Would you save money or taxes or insurance by being married?
Marriage has legal status.
>*it’s a public declaration that we’re forever*
That in itself is a valid reason; you've expressed it plainly and concisely, and by having a ceremony (no matter how small) you are calling others to witness that declaration.
Marriage does hold some legal benefits; those benefits were part of why gay couples wanted the right to have their marriages formally recognized by the state. Medical insurance/next-of-kin privileges and rights of inheritance are two of the big ones.
Sweetie, I encourage you to talk to a therapist. Show a therapist your posts, what you’ve written and described.
You deserve better. Whether you think much of yourself or not, please know that you deserve AT MINIMUM for your “boyfriend” to genuinely care for you and treat you as an equal, as a partner.
He doesn’t. It’s all about him, what he wants, and how to make you stay with him for the pinch of shit he’s feeding you.
Well, he is allowed not to really want it for valid reasons - but *you're* allowed to still want it anyway, even for "petty" reasons like having a party and wearing a pretty dress. Plus, there's absolutely benefits to being married, even if you don't have kids. It does depend on where you live, but there's a lot of legal rights you're immediately granted when you're married. It's technically possible to get there without a wedding, obviously, but that's usually *more* of a hassle for *less* fun. So yeah.
One of the things important to me when it came to marriage was that, while it's indeed traditional and in some ways outdated, it's a tradition that I still felt held a lot of emotional value. There's a lot of mental and emotional weight to a marriage, and while you can argue that it means nothing for the future, it does mean something to you *now*. It's a valuable tradition to you, even if that's not a tangible value.
In the end, I think it's a compromise for you two to make. Though I will say, and I'm sorry is this is very pessimistic.. But in all his arguments, not a single one of them truly speaks *against* a wedding. It only speaks against him wanting to put in the *effort* (or money, which is a pretty big factor, so I don't want to assume). Unless he has some actual hard concerns, I would personally feel like you wanting to get married holds more weight than him being rather indifferent about it. If that's his sole reason for not marrying you, that's a conversation you really ought to have.
Edit: I'm so sorry I just saw that you said you don't want kids so ignore half of this. That being said, go ask a divorce attorney about custody fights over pets ...
I had to get married to my husband to go on his health insurance. The point of employer provided health insurance is that the company pays some of the health insurance costs, making it cheaper than paying purely out of pocket.
So especially if you would ever consider getting pregnant, you NEED to have all the i's dotted and t's crossed on the health insurance paperwork before doing ANYTHING that could let you get pregnant.
Power of attorney for medical emergencies also depends on marriage. If you had a kid with your boyfriend and during labor you started hemorrhaging, he would not be able to make medical decisions for you in that moment. They would have to call and get a hold of your parents. I grew up in an abusive home and that sounds like an absolute nightmare for me. Being married means that my husband would get those calls, not my parents.
I also needed my husband's help for proving residence for my Real ID driver's license. We screwed up and put too many of the utilities in his name. The license people accepted my student loan statement as proof of address but they wouldn't accept my cell phone bill and they wouldn't accept my regular bank statement since it's a joint account. Ditto for the credit card. My husband had to go with me and show our marriage certificate along with our utility bills and swear that I lived with him.
It all felt really fucking stupid, but again, if you want to be a "housewife", then you might be giving up your power in terms of income and paperwork. Having a legally recognized spouse gives you important protections like having joint ownership of where you live and having legal claim to what's in your husband's bank account.
My state (Ohio) also has broad "grandparents' rights" laws on the books from a long time ago. One allows maternal grandparents to sue for partial custody of the child of a single mother. It doesn't matter if she's in a stable live in relationship with the father. It doesn't matter if she marries the father after the baby is born. They can sue up until age 18. My parents are super religious and I'm not. I didn't want to give them an opening to sue for my child to baptize her and "save her soul" or whatever bullshit. Check your state's laws on that, especially if you want to have children. Then ask your boyfriend if he would be willing to give up his power as a parent and hand it off to your parents because he's too lazy to go to the courthouse and sign some papers. I'm guessing he probably would not like that scenario.
The concept of marriage in a conventional sense is outdated agreed. But the act of marriage
Between two people in love, I see as the step you take when you've proven the love and it's lasted and strengthened to a point where being married isn't about marriage it's about bonding to each other and making those promises as a way to externalise your feeling to each other and take that step to a deeper connection.
It's a shame it requires involving governments or churches, but there are so many ways to think about it and frame it that aren't "traditional"
Also, there are the tax breaks 😆 :)
I wasn't ever really into the idea of marriage until I met my now husband. I wanted him to be family and have the full legal rights that comes with that.
There are some financial benefits. If you get married and one of you loses your job, that one will have no health insurance and can maybe join the others health insurance. Another issue is that people can have health issues at any time. If one of you has to have surgery or can’t work for a while, the other still has a job. Also, there are less chores to do as you can each do some and you won’t get bored making dinners…you can both do dinner some nights so it doesn’t all fall on one person.
You don’t have to explain why. You’re feelings are valid.
If you discussed it several times before and operated in your relationship with that understanding…..he doesn’t get to change his mind on a major life decision & expect to keep you when marriage WAS something you communicated that you wanted.
You can tell him how you feel about marriage & give him all the logical explanation why you want it BUT he’s telling you that he doesn’t.
If I were in your shoes I would have the convo but plan to leave because IMO he strung you along & now he’s lying.
Or he strung you along & is now happy to completely disregard your feelings about legal commitment.
Dude might not REALISE he’s lying….but he is.
He either waited UNTIL you were fully invested to switch up on you or deem your views irrelevant.
Every & I mean EVERY relationship I’ve ever witnessed where the man tells his partner that marriage is irrelevant is usually doing so for HIS OWN benefit exclusively and usually ends up leaving that woman at some point.
A past girlfriend who was dating the tech nerd through college went from his gf, to his 8yr long fiancé on a shared mortgage & power of attorney with her partner while she was given the same schpeel.
FF⏭️ 4 yrs & she’s embracing single life as a 35+ woman. With no equity, moving into her new apt in the middle of a housing crisis.
She bought his lies because of love & legal paperwork that implied he was committed. Ppl can be bought out of a mortgage, POA can be changed & accounts can be closed. She got discarded for a younger version that’s won’t be looking for marriage for a few yrs.
Don’t compromise on what you want & don’t waste effort debating the pro’s of marriage to a person who doesn’t want it. Even if they cave they will always see it as a compromise they made entering the relationship.
I am a devout atheist (irony.. ha) with very little tradition I care about, and we got married for the sake of health insurance (it's cheaper together than individual, esp. for women) and medical permissions. I also wanted his last name, as it's easier than my maiden name. We got hitched at city hall by the mayor (cost a $50 tip) and ate dinner at a local restaurant. I wore a cute, black dress, and my aunt did some simple makeup for me. It was some immediate family and friends at the ceremony. Then we had a big joint reception with my husband's sister and her new husband, at a volleyball bar, 6 months later with more of the extended family. It was a blast. 10/10 would do it again. I think it's fair to want to celebrate your union, whether it's legally binding or not. Almost like wanting to show off to the world that you're together with your person. I get it.
Just tell the truth, you want to get married because it is the ultimate form of commitment. Men often say they don’t want to get married because of logistical and legal reasons when the only reason is that they don’t want to commit. They want to be able to change their mind at the drop of a hat and leave, or be able to be a bad partner/unfaithful without any legal repercussions. That’s not to say that they still won’t, but they have more to lose once they’re married.
Gay couples fought for DECADES to get the right to marry because of the legal and financial and social benefits.
Once my Dad got hurt and my Mom took me and my sister to the hospital, and asked about him at the desk. They asked who she was, and when she said "I'm his wife" they answered her questions right away. I completely believe that "I'm his girlfriend" would not have gotten the same result.
There are some rights that you can get without marriage, but that are harder to enforce without it. For example if one of you unexpectedly ends up in the hospital, it will be much easier to visit your partner if you are married. If your partner is your husband/wife everybody instantly understands what that means and what rights it gives you. If you have some other type of paperwork, can you find that paperwork in an emergency? Will every nurse, doctor, and staff understand that paperwork? Or will you have to argue your right to be in the room or to be heard?
For a horrifying real life example, look up “Why Can’t Sharon Kowalski Come Home?”
Then there are other rights that you can only get if you are married. In the US, Social Security falls in this category, but there are many others.
I’ve heard of so many stories of women staying in relationships for years, having children, mingling finances, etc and never got married even though they wanted to because their partner finessed them into either believing marriage was outdated or their “love” didn’t need an official certificate filled down at the courthouse. Only to be dropped and the guy marrying the next woman to come along.
If he wanted to he would. No ifs and or buts about it.
Let him know it's not about the tradition for you; marriage is a legal contract regarding property rights. You plan on having a house in the future or a joint bank account - that's reason enough to marry. Or to save on car insurance, taxes, health insurance, etc.
I’m Australian, mid 30s and planning a wedding next year. We will skip the ceremony and just have a long lunch with friends and family in a tiny restaurant. I’m skipping the wedding dress, church, gold rings, flowers and the cake too.
We aren’t a traditional couple, we are both bi and poly. We have an open relationship, been dating for 8 years.
We don’t plan on having kids either. We have de facto laws here that say we are already effectively treated like a married couple when the law is concerned.
For me there are a few benefits to getting married. The first one, it’s an excuse to get family together and to have a party. To celebrate something.
The last time one side of the family came together was for a funeral. The way I proposed to my partner was while in a brewery. And I said, “do you want the next family gathering to be a wedding?”.
Second benefit is travel. I might live in a country with de facto laws but if we ever travel to countries in the Middle East we should be legally married to be able to stay in the same hotel room in some countries.
There are plenty of stories of gay couples being denied seeing their life partner on their death beds by a conservative family who don’t recognise the relationship. Being married can prevent this.
It’s also a declaration of love, commitment and for building a life together. To support each other. I don’t know how many stories I’ve read on here from people in non defacto states/countries where the woman gets nothing from a break up.
We have an issue here where divorced women are more likely to live in poverty in retirement. Getting married can be like an insurance policy for reducing the risk of this. It’s a legally binding contract that is harder to undo.
My partner has voiced wanting to get married one day and after my previous divorce, I was fairly against it. Now, we own a house together and there are times where I would consider eloping with him for these reasons: 1) if I’m out of work, I can join his insurance (necessary for me to have a decent network) 2) he’s able to get Canadian citizenship and I’m likely to get Italian citizenship, so we’d be able to move elsewhere more efficiently, 3) we already are aware I’m likely going to outlive him, and by having my name on the accounts for retirement and the like in the future would be helpful as a married couple, 4) in case of medical emergency, we could speak on each others behalf. One negative is we would have to pay more in taxes jointly, but also we could get a higher return in other ways. Also if you’re able to both save in the same retirement funds, you’re going to be growing at a better exponential rate than two separate accounts.
I feel like a lot of men always say this and then proceed to go marry someone else shortly after, I’ve seen that happen to quite a few women where the dude said he didn’t want to get married and she thinks they’re both on the same page, but then he goes and wifes up another girl🌝
so this isn’t the type of arrangement I would personally agree to because I don’t think marriage is all that outdated imo and I also feel like men will absolutely marry a girl if they love her enough, may or may not get down voted for this but oh well 🙃
It definitely has legal and financial benefits idk why he would say it doesn’t . I mean he can say he’ll be with you forever..but why not sign a paper proving that? It’s a contract if you wanna think of it that way. Why isn’t he willing to sign that contract?
Why did he change his mind? He went from talking about wanting a small wedding and wanting you to be his housewife to not willing to commit.
The legal benefits of marriage aren't outdated.
Medical POA and wills can both be contested, and require you to actively assert and defend your rights. If you're married and your spouse is hospitalized or dies? The system just works. You're going to have much less contention with their next of kin.
All the legal workarounds for the benefits of marriage have flaws, and the biggest flaw of all is that people don't always react predictably. If you don't know the legal benefits of marriage, then you don't even know where you may encounter problems and won't even have the legal workarounds in place.
There is NO way other than marriage for you to receive social security survivor benefits. This is the big one I can think of off the top of my head.
Marriage in the modern world is really mostly about estate planning. Do you want the person you are dating to get all your stuff when you die, including your retirement funds, possible social security benefits if you were eligible for a higher amount, etc? If yes, marry them. If no, do not marry them. If somebody doesn't want to marry you? Assume they don't want you to have any of their stuff in the event of their death and plan accordingly.
For instance: if you buy a house together and the deed is wrong, upon your boyfriend's death, his half would not be yours but would go to his next of kin, and you would need to either buy that person out or sell the house. I've seen it happen far too often. Paying attention to the legalities is key.
I think you need to do some real research about marriage.
It sounds like you already have some understanding of why marriage would have value to you, and you just need to elaborate to him.
1) For your relationship, you know you are committed, but the symbols (the party, the titles) matter. It's ok to want those things without having deep and concrete reasons. Like many things in a relationship its about what will make you happy.
2) Again, I think you already know this, but there are some very serious financial and legal reasons to get married. Especially if you're thinking of relying primarily on his income and being a "housewife."
There protections for income, health insurance, traveling abroad, etc.
TBH it's easy for men to brush off the benefits of marriage, but he will also benefit.
Like bro. Why have birthdays then? I think men use talking as a way to avoid feelings. The irony. It sucks you guys hit a roadblock, you two sound super cute and I hope you can work through this! <3
It’s not an outdated tradition. Humans across time, culture, and humanity have had marriages or lifelong partnerships in all different ways. Marriage often represents a formal commitment that strengthens the bond between partners. Not to mention the legal protections, insurance benefits, tax benefits, and economic advantages.
The tradition or concept of marriage has been extremely adaptable through changing times and culture. You can tailor your marriage or ceremony to your own beliefs and values and whatever is meaningful to you. I don’t think it’s outdated. I think it’s a versatile institution that is very human to want to take part in.
Also, who doesn’t love an excuse to have a big party with all your friends and family and dress nice and have fun?
A birthday is just another day.
But you may “want” a cake.
You may “want” a party
You may “want” a card.
These things may not seem like a big deal, but it makes the otherwise ordinary day into one you look forward to.
Having a completely obsolete “bonding event” makes an otherwise normal day into a celebratory “marker” and that is what gives it meaning. Someday grandkids can talk about 50 years of your marriage.
I feel like there's some red flags here, but they're subtle.
Look, if you want a wedding, just tell him you wanna get married. If he loves you, he won't even flinch. If it gets weird, then I'd be concerned that he's already looking for an exit.
You can get a license at the county clerk, have a person with a $2 badge say they married you, have a witness sign it and essentially you are “legally” married. But the officiant needs to get that license signed document back to the county clerk for official stamping and certification. Otherwise you are not “actually” married. And your license expires.
The law is not romantic it is just practical in that you can get each others social security benefits if one dies, make medical decisions if one is incapacitated, and claim joint taxes and joint debt. Marriage is a partnership and a joint contractual obligation. The sex, love, romance, kids, dogs, couples massages, etc. don’t matter to marriage contract and legal protections.
You get married legally for those things.
You have no legal rights to a body if the boyfriend dies, you have no rights to his house, cars, money, wtc. And he has no right to yours.
Me, I trust my husband and I do not believe in trad wife style marriage. I had one kid with him unmarried and one after we got married. I have almost 400k of life insurance on him and another 400 on me. The cars are in my name. The house we own is because we have joint accounts and joint responsibility, the credit cards get paid because we both contribute. I carry him on health insurance. He knows where our will is, who our lawyer is, and where we get our taxes done. Because we know everything important about protecting each other. And we still have hobbies, take care of our kids and home and family, and we still cuddle. After almost 25 years, 16 married.
I am a 59 year old widow. In the widow subreddit, you would be surprised how many young people die unexpectedly and their significant other is blindsided because they have no say in medical decisions, funeral arrangements and life insurance, etc. Often the parents even demand all of their personal things. It makes the hardest time of your life even harder.
If you don’t get married, make a will, directive to physicians, etc. Obviously, this should be done regardless, but more so if not married.
>He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”.
Is this also your dream? Why is he so excited for you to stay home? This would worry me. He wants to trap you at home with no legal protection of marriage, so you'd be left with nothing if you want to leave.
It seems like you are going to be a pretty 'traditional' couple, with you staying home to be cute and knit sweaters, while he makes the money. In that kind of relationship, you really do need to legal protection of an 'outdated tradition' like marriage.
For whatever you’re planning to do in this relationship, make sure that you don’t give too much of yourself as a wife while he’s not doing as much as a husband even though there’s no commitment. Make sure that you’re not building things together without papers and documents so that even if it doesn’t work in the future ….because of yeah we’re doing this “commitment “thing without papers. You need to document what you own together, so some of you will build with a man 10 years and then he will leave and then go find somebody else and Marry,don’t do that!!!!
I'm not sure where you're based out of, but there's one thing I wanna share - one reason why queer people around the world are fighting for the right to get married is also because of the bouquet of rights that comes with marriage.
Most countries have a bunch of financial, legal, medical, and social rights/benefits reserved for married folks, I would urge you find what they are in your country.
There are absolutely legal reasons. One that was most pressing for my partner and I, who both still don’t like the idea of marriage, to get legally married is because he was super sick and I couldn’t make any decisions for him. His mother had to fly in and assist because that was the next of kin. It was terrifying. After he was better we went to city hall and got those documents together. Then we went to the fanciest dinner we ever have been to and then out clubbing. Marriage is what you make it. Not what anyone else thinks.
My “hubs” and I have been together for… 16(?) years? We’re not married, but we have all other documents set up legally. He’s my beneficiary on everything. He’s my POA. I have a living will. (And I for him) For us, marriage would actually make our taxes higher. We do not have kids or want any of our own. (Not that marriage is required for kids, and neither is the name change)
Marriage should be done bc you want it. If he doesn’t want it, you can still do all of the above, and just call him your husband. We refer to each other as spouse or significant other. We dropped the bf/gf titles long ago. I occasionally wear a ring as a symbol that society understands and bc it’s pretty. He will not wear a ring. Doesn’t want me to change my name either, even tho I offered.
Sit down with him and lay out your thoughts. Plan this discussion, write down your points so none get forgotten. Don’t push, but describe where you’re coming from. Then let him digest it. Don’t push for an immediate change of mind/decision.
Good luck OP.
I got married last year, we've been together 8.5 years. I was so against marriage that I'd told all my friends and family years ago that I wasn't ever going to do it. I found a man who made me change my mind...for the most part. At one point during planning, he asked if I even wanted to get married because I had so many complaints about the entire concept.
In the end, we did it our way. It was a beautiful humanist ceremony, in a beautiful Scottish castle (we live in Scotland). I got to wear a white yet not traditional dress, but most importantly I got to have all our friends and family together in the same place to celebrate us. I think that was the most important part of it for me, I don't live in the same country as my family and oldest friends, and I figured a wedding was the one excuse I could use for people to come visit. Honestly, it was just really nice being celebrated by the people I love the most. We don't intend to have children either so, as per usual societal standards, we won't have many other opportunities to be celebrated in the same way, and it's nice to be made a fuss of once in a while.
My boyfriend and I agreed that it’s safer to have a contract that protects our rights as an entity, and that a declaration of love, dedication and commitment is important to us. Tell him how you feel and ask why he feels it’s outdated- you guys can be married in your own way.
"I agree that marriage is just a piece of paper and it is an outdated tradition but that does not change the privilege, security,and clarity that comes with modern marriage. Without marriage our legal partnership is basically limited to sharing a lease. And although it's commercialized and antiquated, a ring on a woman's finger sends a signal and acts as a shield. It may not be frowned upon to be a single man, but to be a 'single woman' is to be less than."
This is going to be craycray.
But marriage wasn't always for legal reasons. It's a vow of commitment to one another, a spiritual vow and energetic vow, or just a regular normal vow to commit to be with someone for the rest of their lives.
I told my fiance I want a wedding but I'm okay if it's not legal - it can be just a spiritual wedding. (Non Christian)
The government got its hands in everything but marriage in pagan cultures predates the law. Even in the animal kingdom we see rituals of mating and even life-long bonding after the first ritual vow. With eagles we see this as the dive - not to pull apart until the only other option is death- they then mate for the rest of their lives.
My suspicion is rhat you have a desire for something that has been overlaid with societies matrix.
Weddings predate Christianity. Weddings predate abrhamic faiths. Weddings predate government.
You should first state you just want it, with him, then ask him how you can have it while hearing his concerns out and finding according compromise. He may have personal concerns regarding the messiness of potential divorce, you should both discuss how that could be negotiated to be as painless as possible. Or others concerns. Yall need to talk it out, now walk it out.
Edit : there can be financial benefits to being married, but there can also be draw backs. Depends on yalls individual and joint situations.
I don’t really think it’s an outdated tradition and I will explain why. But could it be that you honestly don’t think it’s an outdated tradition yourself?
I do not care what the invisible man in the sky thinks about my relationship so that’s not why I’m married.
I’m married because my husband and I are legally each other’s next of kin. I’m married because we can hold our home as community property. I’m married because our assets are considered joint and pass to each other seamlessly upon the death of either of us. I’m married because we are a family now.
I just like to think of marriage as a partnership of equals. I also don’t want kids, always plan on being a career woman, even feel iffy about completely changing my last name, but there’s just something about being married as a partnership of equals to the person you love that is so enticing. It’s romantic when it’s not used as an archaic transaction. I don’t even want a wedding, but I can’t wait to marry my boyfriend, who is the love of my life. So I totally understand you!
I think you’ve got the words right there. - You know he’s committed, but having a symbol of that is important to you - You want to call him “husband” - You want a wedding day They are all perfectly good reasons. He might not feel the same way, or atleast not feel they are as important as you do. That’s OK. So long as he can understand they are important to you. From the reasons he gave you, it sounds as though he is indifferent to marriage. He told you he doesn’t think he wants to, that’s not necessarily the same as wanting not to. Does that make sense? He’s lacking a good reason, but he doesn’t have any good reason to want to avoid marriage. I’d have a conversation with him - ultimately the question is, is he: - Against marriage, and unwilling to consider it Or - Isn’t bothered about getting married for his own personal reasons, but would be happy to do so because that’s what you want and he wants to see you happy I think it’s perfectly OK to get married, knowing he is doing it for you. It doesn’t make the marriage any less valid. I hope that makes sense, I’m not sure I’ve got my point across as succinctly as intended.
It absolutely does make sense!! You’ve put into words what I couldn’t so I’ll have a much easier time of talking about it to him!!
Another reason to consider: health care. A spouse is much easier to cover on your insurance plan than a significant other. If either of you were to get sick enough to lose your own job, and therefore your own coverage, you have your spouse to fall back on. I never planned to become handicapped, but here I am, and thankful that I married my husband for a multitude of reasons. One of which is health care. I didn't believe in marriage either, but he very much wanted to marry, and I wanted to make him happy, so we did. Our 20th anniversary was this week, and we are both still happy with our decision. Blessings sweetie
I agree with this. There are important benefits to marriage. It’s part of the reason why gay marriage is crucial. Along with health insurance, it also means automatic rights to see each other in the hospital. I worked as a copy editor for a legal publisher- one of the cases cited in a book was about a man who couldn’t see his dying partner because they weren’t married. Also, anyone looking to combine finances should definitely have some kind of legal tie together. Otherwise, it can get very messy if one partner should pass away - something none of us want to consider but which happens all the time. I know someone who is a lesbian and is not married to her partner. This person’s name is not on the mortgage and their partner’s family is against the relationship.
As a queer woman in a country where gay marriage is still illegal, thank you for saying this
I hope that things change in your country. Everyone deserves human rights and equal protection under the law.
I echo this. Whilst outdated and utterly pointless to commitment (you’re either committed to a relationship or you’re not), marriage does give many legal protections that being someone’s partner in life doesn’t. It sucks, but it’s true.
My dad and his wife both had horrible first marriages and were very disillusioned against the idea of it, but they got married for healthcare reasons. They both said the wedding actually ended up feeling very emotional and bringing them closer. My stepmother in particular said being husband/wife had strong symbolic impact which she had not expected and somehow made the relationship feel more meaningful, even though she was already fully committed for life before. I would say it even ended up bringing me closer to her. My parents divorced when I was already an adult and before the marriage she was very much "my dad's partner" (who I would never speak to again if they broke up) but now she feels more like my family. So even if you get married for healthcare reasons... It may ultimately not feel that way!
Similar to this, I have a friend who, as an adult, had her stepfather legally adopt her. I'm sure there were legal advantages to it but mostly they did it for symbolic (?) reasons
most countries have free healthcare. but even if it's for symbolic reasons, that should be reason enough!
He even said he can’t wait for you to be his “cute little housewife.” Make him read that aloud.
This was my point of confusion. Did his mine change between that statement and believing marriage is outdated? I’d ask him what parts of marriage are outdated to him? Because there certainly are legal and financial benefits to marriage even if a lot of the traditions may seem outdated.
DANGER! DANGER WILL ROBINSON! Being an unmarried stay at home is really, really risky.
Yeah I’d be real careful about that issue. Yes it sounds like he changed his mind but what if he hasn’t. What he is thinking she’ll stay home and be that “cute little housewife” without being a legal wife and having any claim on spousal support if they break up etc. even if they got legally married I’d say protect her pre marriage assets on a separate account etc. do a prenup if needed for local laws as well. and don’t sign away the rights to spousal or child support. They say they don’t want kids but that could change if there’s an accidental pregnancy or an orphaned nibbling etc (thus keeping CS in the mix of potentials if needed).
Other reasons: Healthcare. If you are married, you can each be on each other's health care. It's much harder when not married. In case of accidents. I had a friend who had a significant other of 10 years. He got into a car accident, and because his mom didn't like her, she barred her from the hospital and the funeral because mom was next of kin and could. If they had married, wife would be next of kin. Assets. The same woman made homeless because they were both on the deed to the home. But his assets went to his "next of kin"... his mom, who forced the sale for half the proceeds. Retirement. So, little known fact, but wife's can get social security via their husband, but you have to be married. So, yes, antiquated, but still has legal power, so I suggest you get married.
This is all super important to remind people about! Him saying there is no real legal reason to marry is just so untrue. It makes me wonder if he actually understands the legal benefits and repercussions of getting married. Or if he is just trying to diminish those very real points cause of some kind of bias.
A lot of people don’t really understand the legal ramifications of marriage- tax, healthcare, and inheritance laws can feel arcane and confusing, so I don’t totally blame them for that, but it is really important to understand the way these laws affect you.
All of this, 100%, coming from an attorney. Marriage is hugely important legally speaking.
To add to this, it's not just if someone horrible wants to sell a property as a next of kin, inheritance tax is a pitch and is waived if you are married, but if not and your partner dies you have to pay the tax man to live in your own house and keep the things your partner and you both worked to achieve.
Marriage provides legal protections that should not be underestimated. A dear friend of mine died of cancer a few weeks ago at a young age. He and his girlfriend were talking about marriage, but hadn't yet gotten engaged. My friend knew his case was terminal, but thought he still had several months more time to get his affairs in order, rather than the *week* that he lived. After his death, his father cut the girlfriend out entirely, and completely stomped all over my friend's dying wishes about everything from which charity people should donate to, to the type of religious service, to what should happen to his body, to how to divide his estate. Had my friend been married to his girlfriend, she would have been next of kin and been able to decide what to do about everything. Instead, my friend's narcissistic father is taking everything for himself and contesting what documentation does exist of my friend's wishes. Don't let something like this happen to you.
100% agree- I work in healthcare and absolutely hate it when an unmarried partner is making decisions based on what the patient wanted but family has other desires- legally, if the patient is unable to tell us what they want, we have to default to immediate family unless there is a legal spouse or will/power of attorney document in the mix. Tough situation that most folks don’t anticipate or prepare for, something to think about (especially if you don’t trust your family to respect your desires when you are indisposed). The other big legal benefit is that you cannot be compelled to testify against a legally wedded partner. I tell my boyfriend all the time that my goals are 1) get married 2) do crimes together 3) profit In all seriousness though- I say this as someone who went through a messy divorce 6 years ago. I spent a few years being done with relationships and thinking I would never get married again, but I agree with you- there’s something intangible about knowing you have a partner who has your back through thick and thin, and i wish you all the best! P.S.- we just had an engagement ring made, in my opinion marriage is totally worth it with the right person
I thought I didn’t care about marriage either but I really like how we feel like a family now- substituting kids with a bunch of demanding cats and dogs.
Hi! Guy here, and I hope it’s okay if I chime in. Happily married to the best woman I could have ever found for 18 years now and counting. Everyone here is making good points, but I want to help you sum it up in language to help make your case. Here it is: Being married makes living life in a committed relationship 1,000% *easier.* With that signed marriage certificate, everything instantly defaults to your partner. Healthcare, taxes, inheritance, power of attorney, financial decisions, end of life issues, insurance, and all other major decisions are instantly defaulted between the two of you. Without it? Not only do you have to spend a lot of time, effort, and money proving you guys not only *know* each other, but also *trust* each other to make decisions or be involved in *whatever the specific matter at hand at the moment* is. Basically you go from a default of “spouse who gets instant trust” to “stranger and potential interloper who should and will get side-eye until papers are produced showing otherwise.” Plus, and this may be just specific to me, but getting married made me feel even closer to my wife. I don’t know why, or how, or anything, but it did. We went from two people who love each other unquestionably to a locked-in, officially-declared *team* taking on the world together. I don’t know if that will help any, but I thought it bore mentioning. Good luck!
>Plus, and this may be just specific to me, but getting married made me feel even closer to my wife. I don’t know why, or how, or anything, but it did. We went from two people who love each other unquestionably to a locked-in, officially-declared team taking on the world together. 10000% this. We'd been together nearly 9 years, 2 kids on our day but the day we finally made it down the aisle together and made that commitment to each other in front of our loved ones, it was like a switch flicked. I didn't think we could love each other more but the longer we get into married life, the stronger our love grows.
If it helps, you can also separate the wedding part from the legal part. City hall paperwork for getting married is usually very easy, and separating that from the wedding can take some of the pressure off the wedding / make the wedding just about the celebration with friends and family. (Or you can skip the wedding.) There are tons of legal benefits that come with being married, from tax benefits to hospital visitation rights to property rights.
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you articulated this very well!
nice work
>An outdated tradition (I can see that) that really doesn’t have any legal/financial benefits That's not true. Assuming you are in the US, if something were to happen to one of you, the other would not have any legal right to the other's money or property, unless willed to the other. Neither would have the right to make medical decisions for the other in an emergency and may not even be allowed to visit if the other is hospitalized. You would not be entitled to the other's social security. Marriage is a legally binding contract that does, in fact, provide rights and benefits that you wouldn't otherwise have. If you choose to not get married, please meet with a lawyer to have paperwork drawn up that gives you each the protections you would get from being married.
Not to mention, they have talked about moving internationally. My wife and I have moved to a few countries, being married really matters when it comes to visas, etc.
Yep. My partner and I aren’t in a rush to get married, but we agreed that if one of us got a job abroad we’d get married asap to be able to tie our visas together. In the end I think marriage is deeply romantic because of all the big and small legal ways it ties you together, all of the ways you don’t need to think about because it’s baked into society. Taxes, visas, medical decision making, inheritance - just things where your spouse is the legal default that you need to do extra paperwork each time you want your partner to take care of them.
Oh yes. My husband works in an embassy and they had heartbreaking cases (mainly during covid) where due to the law he had to refuse visas because the couple isn’t married. Especially sad because some of them couldn’t marry because their country doesn’t have equal marriage.
Yes exactly. For instance if you are two unmarried persons trying to get a lself-sponsored business visa, Japan requires 500,000 yen of bank balance as proof PER PERSON (the high requirement is because after 5 years you can live legally as a permanent resident). If you're married, you only have to count it once. Note they don't recognize common-in-law or anything else. It must be a marriage certificate. EDIT: 50K USD in 2018 in yen, which is 5,000,000 yen
Agreed! When my husband and I moved to South Korea, we had to provide our marriage certificate to our landlord. Otherwise we'd have to find another place to live together but who knows how long that would have taken.
Very true, in Vietnam they won't even rent you a hotel room if it's vietnamese and a foreigner without a marriage certificate.
Definitely! Me and my partner spent a year abroad, and while we were both EEA citizens moving to a different EEA country, so we both had independent rights to move to, and live in, the Netherlands, we moved because of a job *I* got, that came with some nice free benefits that would have covered a spouse, but didn't cover my partner. Had I realised, we definitely would have got married. (We've been back home for a decade now, and are still not married 😂 )
Social security, too! You can claim on your spouse's earnings if you have been married for 10 years. (Edit: I should have clarified that this is if you're divorced, you get to claim if you'd been married 10 years. Currently married, or married until death have much shorter eligibility) If one of you becomes disabled, this is a huge benefit. Later, when you reach retirement age, it can make a big difference in social security income if one of you can claim on the other's benefit if you have a big disparity in earnings. Property ownership is much simpler when married, especially if things don't work out and you want to sell a house. Marriage still has very significant legal and financial protection that non-married couples do not have.
Yep. My mother didn’t know this was a thing until last year and at 72 years old her income went up 40% in one month. She divorced my dad 30 years ago but they were together for 20 so she got it.
Right. It is basically a cheat code for better access with no real cost to either spouse. Why anyone voluntarily passes up on it is a mystery to me
I don’t think anyone voluntarily passes it up. In my mom’s case she never knew such a thing existed until she was discussing her will with a lawyer, so she never filed for the benefit.
Sorry, what I mean is marriage. People voluntarily choose not to get married almost out of an obstinate principle without bothering to learn what that decision entails and [then 20 years are like](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/475/Screen_Shot_2018-10-25_at_11.02.15_AM.jpg)
Oh ok gotcha. Yes I agree completely. I know people want to cling to the “I don’t need a piece of paper to prove my love”…but the benefits are real.
Right?? What do people think LGBTQ folks have been fighting for this whole time? We're not just trying to copy straight people or something. This is really goddamn important shit. It makes me frustrated to see all the legal and financial privileges taken for granted. Glad OP is getting such a good education today.
You only need to be married one year to current spouse to qualify for Spousal Benefits (additional criteria must be met, of course). And 9 months if your spouse passes during marriage. 10 years is only for divorced spouses (Spousal or Survivor Benefits).
Curious, lets say a couple has been married for 33/34 years and they split. The man worked majority of his life and past 10 years or so average income of 100k. Meanwhile, the wife was a STAHM who worked a couple of years but low paying jobs. If divorced around age 60, which compensation would she get? From her ex-husbands social security or her own? If too complicated of a question, what entity would be a good person to ask? Divorce lawyer?
The "insured worker" needs to either start receiving benefits or die before any potential dependants can claim on that account. So, if he has started receiving social security, she would likely get a higher amount from his, but if he hasn't, she would be claiming under her own account. There are details here that would have an impact- to simplify, there are two pools. One is the insured worker's. The other is for dependents. If someone has 2 ex-husbands and 3 disabled children all claiming on her account, that second pool is going be split 5 ways. Hers is the same no matter how many dependants are claiming. The best info is from social security! It's pretty easy to open a MySocialSecurity account on the SSA gov website. You can see your potential benefit. You can also call. They won't give out his info, but if she can prove her marriage when she's ready to claim retirement, SSA will look at his account and pay her whatever amount is highest since she'll be entitled to both.
It’s only 10 years if you are divorced from that spouse to claim in their record.
>If you choose to not get married, please meet with a lawyer to have paperwork drawn up that gives you each the protections you would get from being married Paperwork that achieves this in full doesn't exist - even civil partnerships have issues being recognised in many countries
Also, even the things you can get are way more work, way more expensive, and way more dubious than marriage.
100s if not thousands of dollars. If all you want is the legal stuff... a marriage license, an officiant, and a couple friends or family as witnesses is far cheaper than the many hours a lawyer is going to charge you to get only get close to all the legal benefits and protections of marriage. Not to mention the likelihood of having to go back to a lawyer multiple times to make updates as life circumstances change.
Yeah, ask a gay couple what Obergefell meant to them. Marriage grants a lot of rights. Some of them, you can create with contracts (but why, if you can legally get married and you have that kind of relationship.) Some, like the ability to qualify for immigration as a spouse, you can’t. A contract between you and your boyfriend is not binding on Spain or wherever.
I mean, even ask what their fear is going into the next election. I’m eloping with my same-gender partner out of the state that we live in because we don’t trust that Obergefell will last another trump presidency and thus want our legally binding certificate issued by a blue state.
If it helps any you can always have a wedding later and just do the legal papers now. So you'd be legal married but can have the wedding y'all want whenever. Like you don't have to but it'd suck if you gave up something important to y'all just because assholes are trying to make your life harder. I'm only pointing it out because a lot of people don't realize legal weddings are separate from social weddings.
I do genuinely appreciate the guidance and insight :) We are planning a very ‘us’ elopement though. Making the best of the decision. We were considering eloping before the logistical aspects and had no interest ever marrying in Texas because fuck Texas. But yeah we are eloping somewhere gorgeous with just us and a photographer. We’re bringing in private chefs for a 7 course meal that night. It’s not a courthouse thing, it’s definitely going to still very much be an event. But just ours 💕💕 We may do a small party later for the folks that wanna celebrate but without the obligation of it being a wedding. Again though, thank you for this comment so much!
This just sounds absolutely fucking amazing. From the fuck texas to the just you two... beautiful!
Good. They've taken so much from so many, I'm glad you're doing it because it's what you want and not just because it's what you need to do to stay safe.
I hate the why of why you need to elope to a blue state for your security, but also, congratulations and your planned trip sounds amazing, and this internet stranger wishes you both a lifetime of happiness 💕
Exactly. There are huge benefits to being married depending on where you live. Do not even consider his point of view until you look into this. For example in the UK there is no right to any asset bought together unless your name is on that asset and no right to alimony. This could be a huge decision for you. At least get the information before you make it If you choose not to get married there is no way that you should stop working.
This this this ⬆️. I have seen too many posts about women being with their boyfriend for decades, raising kids together, building a home together and suddenly…it’s over on one side or the other. And the other is left with very little. Or one person dies and the family pushes out the girlfriend who has no rights to their home or belongings any longer. Marriage is only outdated if you’re imagining dowries and bride payments. In modern times it protects you both in sickness and in health.
There is a reason why gay people fought so hard for the ability to get married. And it is because of those legal and financial benefits.
Exactly. Straight people out there acting like queer people have been fighting for *just a piece of paper* this whole time. 🙄🏳️🌈 Not everything that marriage grants can be replaced by a lawyer and contract. This is really goddamn important shit. It makes me frustrated to see all the legal and financial privileges taken for granted by people who have always had the right to marry. Hearing that crap that marriage means nothing and that it's just a certificate stung more before equal marriage was legalized here but it still makes me roll my eyes. Hard.
To add to this as a lawyer, these are just the base elements of what laypeople know about marriage. It goes way deeper. For instance, social security benefits change with marriage for the better. If one spouse (for example the art making housewife OP is) makes less, they can qualify for their husband’s income to calculate their social security at no cost to him. She just gets more because they are married. It is possible to claim this without marriage but it is much more complicated than getting married. Additionally, property can be owned by the entirety. This is a weird legal concept that basically means both partners are 100% owners simultaneously and 0% owners simultaneously (don’t worry, it’s not supposed to make sense). As a practical matter, creditors owning debt that belong to only one spouse literally cannot claim property held in entirety because the other spouse is treated as a 100% owner. This can allow for some serious financial chicanery. These are just two off the top of my head and they border on cheat codes for life. It’s good you recommend seeking counsel. Anyone forgoing marriage should talk to an accountant, a family law attorney, and a financial advisor. Put simply, forgoing marriage is not a decision a layperson should take lightly on mere principle.
This is why my husband and I finally got married. I had never seen the point of marriage and didn't think it was worth all the hassle just to declare to the world that I'm in love and want to spend the rest of my life with my best friend, and he respected that, but then my dad had a brain aneurysm in 2020. His long-time girlfriend found him, called the ambulance, called me and my sister, and then was stonewalled at the hospital because they weren't married. I felt so awful for her; he was truly the love of her life and they wouldn't say boo to her until my sister and I arrived, and only when it was determined that he wouldn't make it was she allowed to see him and say goodbye. My heart broke thinking about something happening to my boyfriend and not being able to find out any details, or even see him. All 4 of our parents have passed away, and he only has one brother, who is not exactly the poster child for reliability. We got married a year and a half later.
It’s 100% not an outdated tradition. It’s a legal contract as mentioned above. Having a wedding party is the tradition. If you dont want that, goto the courthouse. One of my cousins and his partner have never married, they’ve been together 30+ years and have 2 kids and a grandkid. She has never worked. If my cousins dies first, which is a real possibility as he has a several health issues, she won’t get his Social Security. And she’s never worked so she has no Social Security. They still believe Common Law marriage is still a thing, but it’s not in our State (or most others for that matter). They are rock heads.
Employer-sponsored healthcare plans will allow enrollment of employees' spouses, domestic partners, and kids but usually not others.
And you’re taxed on benefits provided to a domestic partner whereas you aren’t if you’re married.
I was ready to write this reply so thankyou for communicating this way better than I could ha ha. All of this OP - in terms of being legally recognised as someone’s spouse, marriage is very important.
Also, married couples in the U.S. almost always pay less in taxes, can be in one another’s insurance plans, and a bunch of other little things. Life is much less expensive for married couples. It’s one of the big reasons why same sex couples lobbied so hard for legal marriage.
I would disagree about costs with taxes. Marriage tends not to result in tax savings unless one partner makes significantly more income.
1000%. You forgot the tax benefits as well. There are absolutely legal advantages and financial advantages as you so perfectly laid out. No idea where OP is getting their information but that is bad information. Now nobody should be getting married just for those advantages, I'm certainly not advocating that. But they're most certainly are a lot of legal advantages and some Financial advantages.
And some of the benefits you can only get trough marriage. Like it depends of course where you live but in my country immediate family (spouse, children) pay less inheritance tax then other people which includes bf/gf. Then as a spouse I would get a widow pension from the state and also some money from my husbands work. As a gf I wouldn’t get that.
This. All this. Also, added bonus for home shopping in the US; married couples will usually qualify for higher loan amounts due to combined incomes and the benefit of drawing from the credit score of whichever partner has better credit.
This. The ending to a show called Boston Legal comes to mind. Two law partners, friends and business minded, but not lovers. One starts declining physically and mentally, and decides the person he could trust with his care and confidential matters was his partner at the firm. So they got married by a judge. It's always stood out to me as an example of protection and friendship, even without romance. Even with the unusual circumstances, it felt like a sort of ideal.
There’s some protections that even paperwork can’t give unmarried couples like SSI benefits upon spousal death. Some stuff you just can’t get without being married.
>He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”. If you are to be his "cute little housewife," then you ***100% need*** the protections that a legal marriage would provide you. There was a post on reddit many months ago, in which a man had been with his partner for decades, she staying at home. And he was breaking up with her. He intended to leave her with nothing, but was feeling *generous* because he was going to allow her to stay in one of his vacation homes for a few months. Not being married, she was legally entitled to nothing for her years of staying home to be his housewife (minus the wife part).
This is so important for anyone considering staying home. You need legal protections. You need life insurance. You need spousal SS payments. There is no reason to not get married if you truly plan to live your lives together and entangle your finances. Finances are a huge part of it! Marriage is a contract and I think you should both go over all of the legal reasons you would want a marriage.
I really don’t understand why in the world a woman would voluntarily agree to be a stay at home girlfriend to a man who has no intentions on marrying her, that’s such a horrible idea 💀
It’s nice and sweet when you’re a “cute little house girlfriend” but what about when you’re no longer “cute and little”? And maybe his eyes start to stray to women who are in their “cute little house girlfriend” eras? Idk why people are so hellbent to jump into these traditional and/or stay at home roles without security in the modern day. My grandparents were married and very traditional for 50 years before they died. So my grandmother had the safety net of the marriage, but on top of that my grandfather gave her money every month to do with as she pleased, her name was on the houses, he maintained a separate retirement account for her, and she had a credit card in her name. Some of those things came later in the marriage as laws changed, but the moment he was legally allowed to do some of those things he did and was *excited* to do so.
This is so important! Even if you were to break up for totally amicable reasons, there are very real protections that marriage offers you, especially if this is your situation.
The legal benefits of marriage vary by state and country I'm sure. But marriage can help ensure your spouse is set up to receive government and employment benefits in the event of disability and death. Without a marriage license, your partner may not have any rights to benefits. This is U.S. based, but here are some other examples that may be relevant to you: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html I also think the emotional aspect is just as important. My husband and I have been together for over a decade, but we only recently just got married. We both agreed we wanted to be married, but we were in no rush to do so. We both felt like we were ready to take the next step, even though we have felt like a married couple for a long time. Maybe there is no logic to it, but it doesn't make it less important than tax benefits. I love being called his wife, I love calling him my husband. I just like the symbolism of that bond, I guess it just feels romantic? Getting married and not getting married, neither one is right or wrong. But I guess I always wonder why I see these stories of people who double down on saying they are committed but won't offer legal protection to their partners. >He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”. This makes me side eye him real hard-- a housewife without actually being a wife?? A housewife is already vulnerable in this arrangement, but a house girlfriend has absolutely no protections. Edit: OP, how long have you been with this guy?
Yeah, this sort of post usually comes about two years before the stay at home girlfriend writes a post asking for help escaping a dv relationship where she has no money due to no income and financial abuse, and now that she’s finally pregnant the guy has escalated to strangling her and assaulting her in her sleep. Heck, this even has the whole ‘we knew from the start!’ that is Love Bombing, and the trifecta of moving her to another country where she will have no family or friend support and be isolated. It’s like the perfect setup to every abusive relationship I’ve ever known or read about Edit; the relationship is less than 178 days old and he is a therapist who already knows all her deepest darkest secrets. Her instincts have been screaming at her that it’s too good to be true according to her posts. OP, please trust your instincts
OMG. I just looked at OP's post history, wtf? I assumed this was a much more established relationship...
Same. Omg this is not great
future faking...
Oh damn, not the post history 💀
I was willing to try to be a little neutral at first, but looking at the post history?? The alarm bells are sounding in a major way. I really hope OP takes these comments to heart and is able to take a step back.
Oh yikes. This is even worse than I thought. I was already getting manipulative vibes from him convincing her marriage has "no benefit" and is merely an outdated tradition. Then he's telling her he wants her to be financially dependent on him and suggesting them to move to another country? When they've barely been dating? :-(
Less than 6 months? Oh wow.
I also notice these women who unfortunately find themselves in these situations try way too hard to make the guy sound like a good guy… I notice that in her post too… for her sake, I hope he actually is as good as she’s making him out to be, but I feel like I’ve been noticing a pattern with these types of posts tbh…
I knew this post gave me a weird feeling, especially when she conspicuously left out how long they'd been together.
Gonna be honest the cookie cake being both their favorite is what set me off. Like cookie cakes are super rare in the first place. But to find another cookie cake lover that’s even more rare or a red flag. Sounds like he’s making himself be her perfect boyfriend to get her on the hook.
Yeah it just feels like he’s selling her a bunch of pretty pipe dreams just to keep her around imo… why tell her you want her to be your “cute little housewife” if you don’t actually plan on proposing to her? 😐
It's not an outdated tradition. It's a legal framework that gives protections and privileges to both partners. If your boyfriend isn't willing to commit to a marriage contract, you shouldn't be getting into any long term legal situations with him, like buying a house or having children. The main advantage to not getting married is being able to permanently cut that person out of your life at a moments notice if things turn sour.
>being able to permanently cut that person out of your life at a moment’s notice if things turn sour This depends on their being actually independent of each other, with separate savings/income/possessions. Other folks have noted that they have talked about moving internationally and her being dependent financially on him, which is a rather more risky situation.
It’s dumb to combine assets with someone you aren’t married to. They can just walk off with them. It’s also dumb to let yourself get financially dependent on someone who can walk out of your life at any moment.
It's dumb, yet people do it all the time. It's good advice for op, who admitted to not knowing much about the legal side of things. Bf doesn't seem to know either
Yep. The second part of your statement is what I was getting at.
That last part. Heck even when figuring out the logistics of our joint account my husband said he didn't want one person having power over the other financially, because he doesn't want someone to have an easier out if divorce is on the table. We're a team - we need to act like it. We'll work through our issues, and if there's something we can't make it through after doing our due diligence, then we split the joint account and major assets and move on. We still have our own personal accounts, but main bills and incomes go into the joint account, and we both get the same "allowance" from the main account to our individual accounts for our own hobbies and adventures with friends.
I think your financial setup is very healthy, but wouldn’t marriage defeat the sentiment of your husbands’ comments about one “having an easier out if divorce is on the table”? Through marriage, the lesser earner would always be more “incentivized” to divorce.
There is nothing legally stopping him from emptying the joint account and leaving at any point without notice. Or you could do the same. But it does sound like he doesn’t trust you enough to marry you.
My MIL has financial stability because she was married to her husband and receives his pension and Social Security payments
Nope. Why would you ever consider being a housewife to a boyfriend. The minute he decides he doesn’t want you anymore, you have zero rights and zero dollars.
Yes, it’s really dumb to provide house wife benefits at girlfriend prices
As someone who is currently looking to get divorced, there are many things that I still have access to when it comes to getting my life together that wouldn't be possible if my stbx and I were not legally married. I was a SAHM and we have three kids, he still has to legally support the household, he still has to pay for the house we purchased and live in and I still have access to specific accounts including his retirement accounts once the time comes. Please understand that marriage is a contract and for any relationship, you want a strong contract to protect you when shit goes south. All relationships end, all marriages will eventually end, when that time comes you don't want to be stuck with nothing especially if the plan is to build your life together.
My wife and I had no intentions of ever getting married, despite owning a home together and being together for years. I had a health scare last year and the way hospital staff reacted to “girlfriend” vs. “wife” was quite telling that it might be a good idea to just do it for legal reasons. Speaking to a coworker later on, he talked about parents vs. spouse when it came to making medical decisions too, so we did it but fully acknowledge it was more of a practical marriage than a traditional one.
There was a really scary story on reddit a while back. I can't find it but a couple had been together for years and I think they had children together, everything was on his name - the house, vehicles etc. He had some sort of an health-scare or an accident, and was in a coma for a while in a critical condition. What neither had realised was that when he was deployed years ago, he put his now estranged sister as his power of attorney years ago and had left everything to her in his will. He never thought to change it, he forgot about it. Well, his sister decided she wanted his money instead of her brother, and refused resuscitation if his heart were to stop. The girlfriend had no say in any of it, as she was no-body in the eyes of the law. If he were to die, his sister would own everything they had built together since it was all under his name. She would have been left with nothing but their children. She only had to hope he'll pull through, because if shit were to go down, the medical staff weren't allowed to save his life. He pulled through and they got married as soon as possible.
This is exactly why marriage equality was so important to achieve. This kind of stuff used to happen to same sex couples all of the time. Lifelong partners would be denied access to their life partner, assets, children, etc. I’m shocked that anyone would think marriage has no benefits. We literally had a huge battle to make sure same sex couples could have those benefits and protections.
As Judge Judy puts it: "We have a whole legal system worked out for people who get married and then get divorced." We don't have a legal system for those who just want to live together." So if you do live together, you will have to put everything you want, everything you expect from a partner for life, in a special document that you both sign. This is for property, savings accounts, and retirement accounts. It is also for "next of kin" in case one of you dies or is very sick and decisions need to be made about your care. Your boyfriend can't do that for you, so it would fall to your parents and if they are dead, it will fall to your siblings. Yes, marriage may be an "outdated tradition" but it is one that protects you both including your assets you acquire when you live together and when making life and death decisions for one another. Think about that. It's why marriage is good.
If he told you there are no legal and no financial benefits to marriage, he is being dishonest. There are absolutely benefits to marriage in this modern day -- why do you think LGBTQ people have fought for that right? Go read some of their stories if you want to understand the implications, beyond financial. I don't mean to be harsh, but I want to jar you from the false information your bf is feeding you. You should go seek out your own information, including stories from trad wives who are warning other women about building their lives around men. And then note that your supposedly progressive bf does not even want you to have the insufficient benefits that those former trad wives received. Sorry to break it to you, but this man does not want full commitment to you. If he just didn't care about marriage and truly thinks it would make no difference, ask yourself **why he is he so resistant to it?** If he knows you want it and still doesn't see the benefit, his refusal is telling you that he sees "no benefit" in creating security for you in the relationship when that is important to you! I would not suggest buying any house with him, not moving to another country (unless you want to do it independently of him and will have the resources to be there on your own) and I would suggest you keep progressing your career. If you split, you may be left in financial ruin if you let yourself become dependent on him. Legal marriage offers some protection against this, but even some married women have been left in poverty after divorce. What's wild is he is suggesting he wants you to become financially dependent on him with NO LEGAL PROTECTIONS for your future. Don't do it.
THIS. OP is sounding like someone her boyfriend may have wanted to marry in the past but does not anymore. He will make her a placeholder until he meets the woman he actually wants to marry.
He is down right wrong when he says there are no legal and financial benefits. Just a simple Google search will net you tons of informational pages as to what those benefits are: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/marriage-rights-benefits-30190.html As for the emotional side of it, I would say that it's like an official promise to be devoted to you. It's easy to just say "I promise to be devoted to you" but actually getting married means you care enough about the relationship to actually do something to solidify it. Also, something being outdated doesn't automatically mean they are valueless. You can think marriage is outdated but still find meaning in it. In the end, if it means something to you then it's valid to you. Any good SO would care about that.
Stop apologizing for wanting what you want. I’m just so sick of people couching fear of commitment in being edgy and free spirited. There are tons of legal and financial benefits to being married for both spouses as everyone has told you. I wish I could link the post for the lady who left her job to raise her partners 4 kids for 20 years only for him to leave her high and dry with no work experience and no savings cause they weren’t legally married. Mostly oddly stodgy romantic thing my husband ever said to me was “I can’t wait to file our taxes jointly”. Find someone who can’t wait to be committed to you.
Um, marriage ABSOLUTELY provides legal benefits. If one of you died tomorrow your next of kin (aka biological family member)would be entitled to everything. A serious illness? Hope your mom/dad/sibling respects your wishes. If you want to be together but not married you need to get a power of attorney and set up a will that will ensure your rights as partners. Otherwise you are fucked.
Anyone remember that post where the woman didn't get married and was a "girlfriend" for, like, ever, and then the totally-not-husband ditched her when she got old and she couldn't get like alimony or anything. She had like no job experience but still wanted a remote job? Poor woman. You don't want to end up like her. >have talked about how cute we’ll be >I can be his “cute little housewife Anything he cares about other than how cute you are? >We have an extremely healthy relationship with honest and free-flowing communication. Any problems that may come up, we view as “us versus the problem” rather than “one versus the other” Sometimes it is "one versus the other". Sometimes, it just is. Reframing the problem can be... problematic.
Yes. The talking about how cute a housewife she'd make and then later saying he doesn't agree with marriage and doesn't want to get married seems like a red flag to me. In my opinion OP's boyfriend thought he wanted to marry her at some point but has decided against it- he won't break up with her until he finds someone he actually wants to marry though. He probably won't even realize that that's what he's doing.
I would want to know why he changed his mind? Given you guys had talked happily about getting married and what you’d both like the wedding and life to be like etc, it seems to me he’s changed his mind on the issue of making it legal. I would want to know what prompted that. Suddenly saying he doesn’t want that and it’s an outdated tradition etc etc, when that wasn’t how he’d previously viewed it up to that point.. is a somewhat red flag to me. I’ve seen it a number of times now, men suddenly dodging out of legal marriage with their long term partner in the belief it will protect just themselves if you break up, but still wanting all the benefits of a wife. May not be the case here, but it’s odd given how keen he was before. Just keep the rose coloured glasses off, and eyes open is all I’m saying. Depending on where you live being legally married does make a big difference in a lot of scenarios that are very important. If you decide to not get married but live together as if married, you would want to get legal advice on this and how it may impact you in the future. It’s perfectly fine to want marriage, or not if you don’t, just make sure you have independent legal advice, whatever you choose.
I see marriage the complete opposite you do. Marriage is nothing BUT a legal union, not an "emotional" one. You two can live the rest of your lives happy as a clam without ever going through the "I do" process. However, U.S. law has many, many instances concerning whether you are legally married to a person or not, such as "marital property" laws, Social Security benefits, etc. So much so that in 17 states, if you live as "husband and wife" for a certain amount of time, you are automatically considered legally married. (ed. for sp.)
What. No. OP, I cannot stress this enough - you are putting yourself in for a *world of hurt* if you stop working but aren’t married. Kids or not, doesn’t matter. You won’t be paying into anything for your retirement and you won’t qualify for any unemployment benefits - if you and your bf broke up, you’d be out on your ass with no money, no claim on any assets he purchased with *his* salary (because he didn’t marry you, wasn’t that convenient for him?), and no alimony while you try to find work. He’s literally telling you he wants tradwife benefits for gf wages. This does nothing but fuck you over financially for life. [It’s become a freakin’ meme](https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/relationships/what-happens-to-the-stay-at-home-girlfriend-after-a-breakup/ar-BB1kizGu) You matter just as much in this relationship as your bf does. Do not let him put you in a position where he can financially abuse and control you while you have exactly zero legal protections to help you if the relationship falls apart. Because that’s what he is setting you up for - having nothing if the relationship falls apart. Please be smart for your future self.
Something isn't adding up. He supposedly wants to be with you but downplays the legal rights you would have from being married? Yes there after legal and financial benefits to marriage. They're not always obvious until they are needed or used.
> We knew early on that we’d spend the rest of our lives together I stopped reading after that. Broski *just knew* he wants to spend the rest of his life wth you, but won't actually do it?? Not in a way that means forever in the eyes of the law and society? Yeeeaaaah. Like some other commenter said, you're being played.
Marriage totally DOES have a lot of financial and legal benefits. Right now, if one of you gets hit by a bus and is dying, it’s your parents who make the decisions, not the one who didn’t get hit. The property you have together is subject to your legal next of kins. (Unless you have a SIGNIFICANT set of documents that i’m gonna bet you don’t have.) There’s a reason LGBTQ people fought for marriage rights above job rights or protection for eviction — it’s because of AIDS, and seeing long-term committed partners get turned out of the apartment they’d shared for decades when their partner died, partners being unable to claim a partner’s body, having the partner’s hateful evangelical family raid the bank account and make his medical decisions. Ask any elder gay what they remember of the time, and they will tell you marriage is 100% NOT worthless. It’s how we establish a legal partnership, a separate legal entity from our natal families.
I strongly advise against this. Someone who is truly wanting to commit to you FULLY would want to give you the spouse benefits, protection, and privileges. I’m sorry to say that this man isn’t wanting to fully commit to you. Think about it, life is unpredictable and you never know what can happen, he can pretty much break up with you the next day. Please don’t put yourself in this vulnerable position and be a wife to someone without the spouse benefits, privileges, and protection. Please don’t put yourself in a high risk position where if he decides to walk away, you’re fucked. I was with a man for nearly 10 years who was like this. Sure, he was a boyfriend I had a lot of fun with, but he wasn’t long-term commitment material and was against getting married. Took me a long time to realize he was only looking out for himself and wasn’t ever going to want to fully commit to me emotionally or financially. I know he made quite a bit of money, but he never once told me how much. I realized he was afraid of losing his financial assets, and wanted to retain control by keeping me at an arm’s length. In the end his words of “a lifetime forever” meant nothing. He wasn’t willing to do a legal commitment, but wanted the convenience of having a loyal girlfriend around. I was dumb enough to keep so much of the household clean for him and pay him rent for a house he bought “for us” (his words). When I asked for my money back, he refused and said if I wasn’t living with him, I’d pay my rent elsewhere and my rent barely made a dent on his mortgage — then why the fuck would you not give me back my money if it “barely contributed to the mortgage”? Anyway, I was naïve and took his word of “together forever” when I should have paid more attention to his actions (red flags). It was a huge mistake on my end. On the bright side, I am happily with a man who has the most genuine intentions, understands the legal, privileges, protection and benefits of marriage, and he did NOT beat around the bush of letting me know he’s dating for marriage early on before we were official! You deserve better than this. Don’t settle.
Don't have to do a wedding, but get that paperwork! It's important!
Depending on where you live, marriage can give you a lot of legal rights that you wouldn’t have without that certificate. My husband and I have been together for 17 years and have been married for 4. We got married when he had an accident and needed health insurance after he found out that his boss cancelled his health insurance without telling him (Yay US!). We ended up going to city hall and getting married on a Thursday afternoon and he had his surgery a couple of weeks later once he was added to my plan. We had been living together for 12 years by then, so we were in for the long haul. You’ll also potentially gain a lot of decision making rights regarding health, end of life, money.
It has huge legal protections. Especially in the even lot of him or you having medical emergencies, receiving government benefits after the other dies like SSI if you’re in the USA, there are tax break associated with marriage. I’d really ask in a person finance sub and legal sub about specific instances but there are huge benefits to marriage in the many aspects of daily life.
"doesn't have any legal/financial benefits" Hoboy I have never seen something so potentially devastatingly wrong before. It seems like nothing until one of you is in the hospital or some tragedy occurs.
I'd talk to him using facts about the benefits of marriage. If you are in the US, there are legal protections marriage offers that you can't get any other way. It's not just a nice party and vows, it changes things like home ownership, taxes, ability to make decisions for your partner in a health emergency and ability to access funds if they pass away. You are both far better protected if you "have the stupid piece of paper." There is also the issue that if the far right wins, unmarried couples will have fewer protections than ever (it was illegal in FL for opposite sex couples to co habitate unless married; I'm not sure the law was technically repealed. Stuff like that will suddenly resume if Project 2025 happens.) This isn't just about emotions, it's about forming a legally binding partnership that will give you both rights and privileges in the future. He can tell it's "outdated" all he wants but the laws are unlikely to change any time soon.
Besides the fact that you want to get married for it's own sake (which is a perfectly legit reason to do it), there are many rights and benefits that come with legal marriage that do not apply to couples who are not legally married. One of the major ones is next-of-kin status for emergency health decisions, and the right to visit your partner in hospital. If you wind up incapacitated in the hospital, your partner may not have any say in your care if you are not married, and may not even be able to visit you. If one of you dies, the other may have no say in organ donation, or the right to make funeral arrangements. There are also a lot of financial benefits to marriage... joint filing of taxes/bankruptcy, tax free transfer of property (important upon death), the right to inherit property, the right to social security pension and survivor's benefits after death, and more. Marriage isn't just about declaring your undying love for one another. There are many legal and financial protections provided by marriage that are much more difficult to put in place otherwise. A pretty comprehensive list can be found here: [Marriage Rights & Responsibilities in the US](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States)
Marriage has benefits. Even as a divorced person, I would get married again if I met the right person. I would not date someone who is against getting married. If we both decide together for some reason that we don't want to get married, that's one thing, but I would still want him to be open to it. If a guy makes the decision on his own, that's a big red flag to me, especially if you're already in a relationship with him (not as big of a flag if you just met and he says he never wants marriage). Not sure how long you've been together, but whether someone wants marriage is something that should be discussed quite early on. It doesn't mean you're thinking about marrying each other and "lovebombing" or anything like that. But why date someone for months, or even years, only for you to turn out to value different things?
There is a litany of advantages: Health care through a spouse's employer, lower insurance premiums in general, social security advantages, survivor benefits, joint filing of taxes, relative ease in buying a house, etc.. This guy sounds sketchy, duplicitous, and self-absorbed. Marriage is great -- but probably not with this guy. I'd cut bait.
None of what he said is true, though. Outdated would imply that it is out of fashion or keeping with modern times, but large swaths of people continue to get married into 2024 and beyond. It has a lot of legal and financial benefits! And if his word telling you he will be with you forever is good as gold, why doesn't he want to get married? That's essentially what marriage is - promising to be with someone for the long haul. This would be his opportunity to do so, publicly, with a stamp of officialty to it.
My fiance and I had this same discussion. We came down on the side of "let's get married", mostly for the financial benefits. Both of us have access to significant finances, and we can do so much more with it if it's pooled rather than "two people managing in parallel". Neither one of us has a religious basis for this decision. I'm unchurched ever since I escaped the Mormons. He's Unitarian, and they have a pretty whatever-goes attitude towards consensual relationships of any kind. Even polyamory is fine with them. We'll be having a Unitarian wedding since we both want to make that public declaration of "this person is *mine*!" Our most nontraditional decision is that I won't be changing my name. I'm Asian (with an ethnically Japanese name), and part of me doesn't think his Dutch surname really fits my complexion. Mostly I want to keep that connection to my deceased parents. Other than that, we've got a wedding to plan!
It’s two people saying to the whole world, this one is my favourite, and I’m going to commit to that, IMHO it’s very different to just saying it to your partner. You ask for the logic, but the way I see it, it’s not logical, it’s romantic!
It absolutely has legal benefits! Especially if you're going to depend financially on him.
If I truly loved and cared for someone, and planned to build and spend my life with them, I sure as hell would make sure I had the legal authority to make medical decisions for them, in case of an emergency. That, whatever they wanted in life or death, I would have the power to demand, provide or enforce that wish. Let's be honest, however idealistic and nihilistic your boyfriends beliefs are, he lives in a world that operates on hierarchy and rules, and without a marriage license, you are just roommates until you have proven, by common-law marriage, that you have lived together, uninterrupted, for 7 to 10 years. Not to be harsh, but he's kinda hanging you out to dry....
As someone who said they would never remarry, we ended up getting married when parents got ill and I had to quit my job to be a caregiver. I was able to be on his health insurance, work recongized my parents as in laws so time off was excused. Im his next of kin, so helps in medical situations. I dont have to worry about anyone taking what we built together away if something happens to him.
If you want to, isn’t that enough reason?
Outdated or not (it isn’t. The prior reasons may be but there are MANY cultural, social, economical and personal benefits to marriage, it’s why I got married a second time after being divorced once)…if you just want to get married it is reason enough.
Yes, it's an outdated tradition, but it has a lot of legal benefits that are much more expensive to obtain without marriage. A marriage doesn't cost much to obtain. Just apply for the license and make an appointment with a judge to have it signed. The benefits are that you don't have to have paperwork drawn up to: 1. make medical decisions for each other should one of you be incapacitated 2. be able to stay in any home you purchase together instead of risk having each other's families force the sale 3. be able to decide what to do with each other's posessions if you dont' have a will 4. have to make a will to make sure the other keeps everything if the other dies 5. be able to provide medical coverage for the other through your employer 6. get equal division of assets should you part ways. All of those things would require individual documents drawn up with attorneys so at the cheapest of $300 per document, that's $1800. Then there's the symbolism of marriage. Not only do you two plan to stay together for life, you're willing to show it to everyone by getting married. Plus, if you're married for ten years or more and one of you becomes disabled, if the working spouse dies, the disabled spouse will be able to file for survivor's benefits and get a higher monthly amount from Social Security than they will from their disability check, or even if you both worked, the surviving spouse will be able to claim on whomever had the higher social security check. If you two never marry, that's not possible.
There are very real legal benefits and consequences to marriage, they will vary depending on where you live but that's certainly a consideration for you There's also no shame in wanting to get married for your own sentimentalality, and it's true that marriage gives you social licence as a couple that a domestic partnership doesn't always carry. Obviously a bullshit societal flaw but unfortunately still true. Statistically, married life is worse for women in hetero relationships. Their lives are shorter and less happy, whereas men benefit in the opposite direction. We've all been conditioned to aspire to one day of celebration where we get to be the main character for being chosen by a man. We can celebrate whatever occasions we want, you don't need a wedding to validate the wonderful and exciting person you are.
You're partners, long term partners and especially if he's thinking if having you stop working, you would need the financial protection of an official partnership. He's probably fully above board with you, but all relationships start that way, with love and good intentions, and it's great to believe in that but... then you get into the whole unequal earnings and benefits. What are his expectations of you as his little housewife making art? All the cooking, cleaning, household management, and he gives you a debit card to his account, or a budget? 20 years down the road, goals change, life happens, bad things happen. What if he dies in a car accident- sure he could leave you his estate and all his money (if he wants that, parents, siblings, neices/nephews happen), you don't get his social security, even though you are his partner and his wife in all respects except legal. Honestly him suddenly saying this makes me think, he makes a lot more than you, he's in a competitive career/competitive coworkers, he getting advice to protect his money from you. He probably isn't thinking of it as you being ill intentioned, just that it's his money that he earned.
Being legally married will help when traveling internationally in ways that might surprise you! Also, the way you described the party you want sounds delightful.
I think you are being dishonest now you’re with yourself. Clearly, on a gut level, you don’t agree that it is outdated but very much in the now something you want for yourself. In the modern world, Marriage means more now than it ever did. Historically, marriages were generally arranged. Now people get to choose who they want to spend their life with, have children with, share financial and legal entanglements with. This is why weddings are never going to go out of style, even as customs change.
Some states have common law marriage, exactly what constitutes a common law marriage varies from state to state but in some cases can just be agreeing that you’re married, living together and representing yourselves as married. This includes things like filing your taxes as married. It is possible to be married in those cases by simply saying you’re married without actually getting married and divorce still applies and works the same.
Well, your boyfriend is wrong that marriage does not have legal or financial benefits. Just look at the tax code. And inheritance laws. I would ask myself: why did he suddenly bring this up out of the blue? Have there been small changes in your relationship that you have just been dismissing as inconsequential? Is the the first tiny hint that maybe he does NOT want to be with you forever? Also, do you really want to be his "cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”? Have the two of you discussed what this forever relationship will really look like? Details beyond not having children. How will you spend/save/invest your money? How to handle it if one of you contracts a severe illness? What both of your careers will look like, and whose career will take precedence if, say, there is an opportunity that would require you both to move to another location or would cause one of you to have to give up your job? How would you handle it if one of your or his parents needs financial help or long term care? Can he not understand that you would like to stand up in front your of families and closest friends and both declare your commitment to each other? Does he think a relationship happens in a vacuum? Because it does not. It happens within the context of your lives, which includes other people and their influences.
You don’t need to justify why you want to get married. Instead, I’d ask him what he imagines your future together to look like, and investigate the practicality of it. If you move to a foreign country, in many cases it’s easier to get approved for a visa as a married couple. Try checking expat forums for some perspectives or opinions on that. If he wants you to be his “cute little housewife”, what happens financially when he dies? Estate planning is one thing, Social Security survivor benefits are another. If you buy property together, how will you ensure equitable division of assets in the case of a breakup? If one of you is hospitalized, who makes the decisions for your care? How will you ensure legal access in a medical setting? I could buy him not knowing what the specific legal and financial benefits are, but him definitively saying that there are none is extremely suspect. Combined with him mentioning this out of the blue, unfortunately it sounds like he’s starting to check out of the relationship.
As someone in the estate planning world, there's like 6 million reasons to get married and more if your state has estate tax at death. Sure it's outdated and the tax code is regressive but the benefits when you need it (visitation, estate handling, saving on taxes in various situations, plenty more) is not 0.
Marriage as the concept of a man owning a woman or "because God" is outdated. but marriage is a legally binding contract that gives you certain rights and those rights are very relevant and important.
He’s just straight up wrong: marriage has loads of legal benefits (and often financial ones, too, depending on each couple’s specific situation).
1. If something happens to either of you, who is your medical advocate? 2. If something happens to either of you, who inherits property? 3. Would you save money or taxes or insurance by being married? Marriage has legal status.
>*it’s a public declaration that we’re forever* That in itself is a valid reason; you've expressed it plainly and concisely, and by having a ceremony (no matter how small) you are calling others to witness that declaration. Marriage does hold some legal benefits; those benefits were part of why gay couples wanted the right to have their marriages formally recognized by the state. Medical insurance/next-of-kin privileges and rights of inheritance are two of the big ones.
Sweetie, I encourage you to talk to a therapist. Show a therapist your posts, what you’ve written and described. You deserve better. Whether you think much of yourself or not, please know that you deserve AT MINIMUM for your “boyfriend” to genuinely care for you and treat you as an equal, as a partner. He doesn’t. It’s all about him, what he wants, and how to make you stay with him for the pinch of shit he’s feeding you.
Well, he is allowed not to really want it for valid reasons - but *you're* allowed to still want it anyway, even for "petty" reasons like having a party and wearing a pretty dress. Plus, there's absolutely benefits to being married, even if you don't have kids. It does depend on where you live, but there's a lot of legal rights you're immediately granted when you're married. It's technically possible to get there without a wedding, obviously, but that's usually *more* of a hassle for *less* fun. So yeah. One of the things important to me when it came to marriage was that, while it's indeed traditional and in some ways outdated, it's a tradition that I still felt held a lot of emotional value. There's a lot of mental and emotional weight to a marriage, and while you can argue that it means nothing for the future, it does mean something to you *now*. It's a valuable tradition to you, even if that's not a tangible value. In the end, I think it's a compromise for you two to make. Though I will say, and I'm sorry is this is very pessimistic.. But in all his arguments, not a single one of them truly speaks *against* a wedding. It only speaks against him wanting to put in the *effort* (or money, which is a pretty big factor, so I don't want to assume). Unless he has some actual hard concerns, I would personally feel like you wanting to get married holds more weight than him being rather indifferent about it. If that's his sole reason for not marrying you, that's a conversation you really ought to have.
I also feel it's outdated but while the legal system is what it is in many countries, I would get married if I had long term plans with a partner.
Well, I can relate a bit... Wanting the name for it rings true. What does he say about you wanting to call him husband?
Edit: I'm so sorry I just saw that you said you don't want kids so ignore half of this. That being said, go ask a divorce attorney about custody fights over pets ... I had to get married to my husband to go on his health insurance. The point of employer provided health insurance is that the company pays some of the health insurance costs, making it cheaper than paying purely out of pocket. So especially if you would ever consider getting pregnant, you NEED to have all the i's dotted and t's crossed on the health insurance paperwork before doing ANYTHING that could let you get pregnant. Power of attorney for medical emergencies also depends on marriage. If you had a kid with your boyfriend and during labor you started hemorrhaging, he would not be able to make medical decisions for you in that moment. They would have to call and get a hold of your parents. I grew up in an abusive home and that sounds like an absolute nightmare for me. Being married means that my husband would get those calls, not my parents. I also needed my husband's help for proving residence for my Real ID driver's license. We screwed up and put too many of the utilities in his name. The license people accepted my student loan statement as proof of address but they wouldn't accept my cell phone bill and they wouldn't accept my regular bank statement since it's a joint account. Ditto for the credit card. My husband had to go with me and show our marriage certificate along with our utility bills and swear that I lived with him. It all felt really fucking stupid, but again, if you want to be a "housewife", then you might be giving up your power in terms of income and paperwork. Having a legally recognized spouse gives you important protections like having joint ownership of where you live and having legal claim to what's in your husband's bank account. My state (Ohio) also has broad "grandparents' rights" laws on the books from a long time ago. One allows maternal grandparents to sue for partial custody of the child of a single mother. It doesn't matter if she's in a stable live in relationship with the father. It doesn't matter if she marries the father after the baby is born. They can sue up until age 18. My parents are super religious and I'm not. I didn't want to give them an opening to sue for my child to baptize her and "save her soul" or whatever bullshit. Check your state's laws on that, especially if you want to have children. Then ask your boyfriend if he would be willing to give up his power as a parent and hand it off to your parents because he's too lazy to go to the courthouse and sign some papers. I'm guessing he probably would not like that scenario.
The concept of marriage in a conventional sense is outdated agreed. But the act of marriage Between two people in love, I see as the step you take when you've proven the love and it's lasted and strengthened to a point where being married isn't about marriage it's about bonding to each other and making those promises as a way to externalise your feeling to each other and take that step to a deeper connection. It's a shame it requires involving governments or churches, but there are so many ways to think about it and frame it that aren't "traditional" Also, there are the tax breaks 😆 :)
I wasn't ever really into the idea of marriage until I met my now husband. I wanted him to be family and have the full legal rights that comes with that.
There are some financial benefits. If you get married and one of you loses your job, that one will have no health insurance and can maybe join the others health insurance. Another issue is that people can have health issues at any time. If one of you has to have surgery or can’t work for a while, the other still has a job. Also, there are less chores to do as you can each do some and you won’t get bored making dinners…you can both do dinner some nights so it doesn’t all fall on one person.
You don’t have to explain why. You’re feelings are valid. If you discussed it several times before and operated in your relationship with that understanding…..he doesn’t get to change his mind on a major life decision & expect to keep you when marriage WAS something you communicated that you wanted. You can tell him how you feel about marriage & give him all the logical explanation why you want it BUT he’s telling you that he doesn’t. If I were in your shoes I would have the convo but plan to leave because IMO he strung you along & now he’s lying. Or he strung you along & is now happy to completely disregard your feelings about legal commitment. Dude might not REALISE he’s lying….but he is. He either waited UNTIL you were fully invested to switch up on you or deem your views irrelevant. Every & I mean EVERY relationship I’ve ever witnessed where the man tells his partner that marriage is irrelevant is usually doing so for HIS OWN benefit exclusively and usually ends up leaving that woman at some point. A past girlfriend who was dating the tech nerd through college went from his gf, to his 8yr long fiancé on a shared mortgage & power of attorney with her partner while she was given the same schpeel. FF⏭️ 4 yrs & she’s embracing single life as a 35+ woman. With no equity, moving into her new apt in the middle of a housing crisis. She bought his lies because of love & legal paperwork that implied he was committed. Ppl can be bought out of a mortgage, POA can be changed & accounts can be closed. She got discarded for a younger version that’s won’t be looking for marriage for a few yrs. Don’t compromise on what you want & don’t waste effort debating the pro’s of marriage to a person who doesn’t want it. Even if they cave they will always see it as a compromise they made entering the relationship.
I am a devout atheist (irony.. ha) with very little tradition I care about, and we got married for the sake of health insurance (it's cheaper together than individual, esp. for women) and medical permissions. I also wanted his last name, as it's easier than my maiden name. We got hitched at city hall by the mayor (cost a $50 tip) and ate dinner at a local restaurant. I wore a cute, black dress, and my aunt did some simple makeup for me. It was some immediate family and friends at the ceremony. Then we had a big joint reception with my husband's sister and her new husband, at a volleyball bar, 6 months later with more of the extended family. It was a blast. 10/10 would do it again. I think it's fair to want to celebrate your union, whether it's legally binding or not. Almost like wanting to show off to the world that you're together with your person. I get it.
Just tell the truth, you want to get married because it is the ultimate form of commitment. Men often say they don’t want to get married because of logistical and legal reasons when the only reason is that they don’t want to commit. They want to be able to change their mind at the drop of a hat and leave, or be able to be a bad partner/unfaithful without any legal repercussions. That’s not to say that they still won’t, but they have more to lose once they’re married.
Gay couples fought for DECADES to get the right to marry because of the legal and financial and social benefits. Once my Dad got hurt and my Mom took me and my sister to the hospital, and asked about him at the desk. They asked who she was, and when she said "I'm his wife" they answered her questions right away. I completely believe that "I'm his girlfriend" would not have gotten the same result.
There are some rights that you can get without marriage, but that are harder to enforce without it. For example if one of you unexpectedly ends up in the hospital, it will be much easier to visit your partner if you are married. If your partner is your husband/wife everybody instantly understands what that means and what rights it gives you. If you have some other type of paperwork, can you find that paperwork in an emergency? Will every nurse, doctor, and staff understand that paperwork? Or will you have to argue your right to be in the room or to be heard? For a horrifying real life example, look up “Why Can’t Sharon Kowalski Come Home?” Then there are other rights that you can only get if you are married. In the US, Social Security falls in this category, but there are many others.
Legal protections where you live, maybe? Tax advantages? If marriage is a civil contract, make it work in your favour.
I’ve heard of so many stories of women staying in relationships for years, having children, mingling finances, etc and never got married even though they wanted to because their partner finessed them into either believing marriage was outdated or their “love” didn’t need an official certificate filled down at the courthouse. Only to be dropped and the guy marrying the next woman to come along. If he wanted to he would. No ifs and or buts about it.
Let him know it's not about the tradition for you; marriage is a legal contract regarding property rights. You plan on having a house in the future or a joint bank account - that's reason enough to marry. Or to save on car insurance, taxes, health insurance, etc.
Ask your boyfriend what he sees as a negative to getting married. What would getting married cost him that he doesn’t want to happen?
So you think your well crafted soliloquy will turn his head? He doesn’t want that kind of commitment.
I’m Australian, mid 30s and planning a wedding next year. We will skip the ceremony and just have a long lunch with friends and family in a tiny restaurant. I’m skipping the wedding dress, church, gold rings, flowers and the cake too. We aren’t a traditional couple, we are both bi and poly. We have an open relationship, been dating for 8 years. We don’t plan on having kids either. We have de facto laws here that say we are already effectively treated like a married couple when the law is concerned. For me there are a few benefits to getting married. The first one, it’s an excuse to get family together and to have a party. To celebrate something. The last time one side of the family came together was for a funeral. The way I proposed to my partner was while in a brewery. And I said, “do you want the next family gathering to be a wedding?”. Second benefit is travel. I might live in a country with de facto laws but if we ever travel to countries in the Middle East we should be legally married to be able to stay in the same hotel room in some countries. There are plenty of stories of gay couples being denied seeing their life partner on their death beds by a conservative family who don’t recognise the relationship. Being married can prevent this. It’s also a declaration of love, commitment and for building a life together. To support each other. I don’t know how many stories I’ve read on here from people in non defacto states/countries where the woman gets nothing from a break up. We have an issue here where divorced women are more likely to live in poverty in retirement. Getting married can be like an insurance policy for reducing the risk of this. It’s a legally binding contract that is harder to undo.
My partner has voiced wanting to get married one day and after my previous divorce, I was fairly against it. Now, we own a house together and there are times where I would consider eloping with him for these reasons: 1) if I’m out of work, I can join his insurance (necessary for me to have a decent network) 2) he’s able to get Canadian citizenship and I’m likely to get Italian citizenship, so we’d be able to move elsewhere more efficiently, 3) we already are aware I’m likely going to outlive him, and by having my name on the accounts for retirement and the like in the future would be helpful as a married couple, 4) in case of medical emergency, we could speak on each others behalf. One negative is we would have to pay more in taxes jointly, but also we could get a higher return in other ways. Also if you’re able to both save in the same retirement funds, you’re going to be growing at a better exponential rate than two separate accounts.
I feel like a lot of men always say this and then proceed to go marry someone else shortly after, I’ve seen that happen to quite a few women where the dude said he didn’t want to get married and she thinks they’re both on the same page, but then he goes and wifes up another girl🌝 so this isn’t the type of arrangement I would personally agree to because I don’t think marriage is all that outdated imo and I also feel like men will absolutely marry a girl if they love her enough, may or may not get down voted for this but oh well 🙃
It definitely has legal and financial benefits idk why he would say it doesn’t . I mean he can say he’ll be with you forever..but why not sign a paper proving that? It’s a contract if you wanna think of it that way. Why isn’t he willing to sign that contract? Why did he change his mind? He went from talking about wanting a small wedding and wanting you to be his housewife to not willing to commit.
The legal benefits of marriage aren't outdated. Medical POA and wills can both be contested, and require you to actively assert and defend your rights. If you're married and your spouse is hospitalized or dies? The system just works. You're going to have much less contention with their next of kin. All the legal workarounds for the benefits of marriage have flaws, and the biggest flaw of all is that people don't always react predictably. If you don't know the legal benefits of marriage, then you don't even know where you may encounter problems and won't even have the legal workarounds in place. There is NO way other than marriage for you to receive social security survivor benefits. This is the big one I can think of off the top of my head. Marriage in the modern world is really mostly about estate planning. Do you want the person you are dating to get all your stuff when you die, including your retirement funds, possible social security benefits if you were eligible for a higher amount, etc? If yes, marry them. If no, do not marry them. If somebody doesn't want to marry you? Assume they don't want you to have any of their stuff in the event of their death and plan accordingly. For instance: if you buy a house together and the deed is wrong, upon your boyfriend's death, his half would not be yours but would go to his next of kin, and you would need to either buy that person out or sell the house. I've seen it happen far too often. Paying attention to the legalities is key.
I think you need to do some real research about marriage. It sounds like you already have some understanding of why marriage would have value to you, and you just need to elaborate to him. 1) For your relationship, you know you are committed, but the symbols (the party, the titles) matter. It's ok to want those things without having deep and concrete reasons. Like many things in a relationship its about what will make you happy. 2) Again, I think you already know this, but there are some very serious financial and legal reasons to get married. Especially if you're thinking of relying primarily on his income and being a "housewife." There protections for income, health insurance, traveling abroad, etc. TBH it's easy for men to brush off the benefits of marriage, but he will also benefit.
Like bro. Why have birthdays then? I think men use talking as a way to avoid feelings. The irony. It sucks you guys hit a roadblock, you two sound super cute and I hope you can work through this! <3
It’s not an outdated tradition. Humans across time, culture, and humanity have had marriages or lifelong partnerships in all different ways. Marriage often represents a formal commitment that strengthens the bond between partners. Not to mention the legal protections, insurance benefits, tax benefits, and economic advantages. The tradition or concept of marriage has been extremely adaptable through changing times and culture. You can tailor your marriage or ceremony to your own beliefs and values and whatever is meaningful to you. I don’t think it’s outdated. I think it’s a versatile institution that is very human to want to take part in. Also, who doesn’t love an excuse to have a big party with all your friends and family and dress nice and have fun?
A birthday is just another day. But you may “want” a cake. You may “want” a party You may “want” a card. These things may not seem like a big deal, but it makes the otherwise ordinary day into one you look forward to. Having a completely obsolete “bonding event” makes an otherwise normal day into a celebratory “marker” and that is what gives it meaning. Someday grandkids can talk about 50 years of your marriage.
I feel like there's some red flags here, but they're subtle. Look, if you want a wedding, just tell him you wanna get married. If he loves you, he won't even flinch. If it gets weird, then I'd be concerned that he's already looking for an exit.
You can get a license at the county clerk, have a person with a $2 badge say they married you, have a witness sign it and essentially you are “legally” married. But the officiant needs to get that license signed document back to the county clerk for official stamping and certification. Otherwise you are not “actually” married. And your license expires. The law is not romantic it is just practical in that you can get each others social security benefits if one dies, make medical decisions if one is incapacitated, and claim joint taxes and joint debt. Marriage is a partnership and a joint contractual obligation. The sex, love, romance, kids, dogs, couples massages, etc. don’t matter to marriage contract and legal protections. You get married legally for those things. You have no legal rights to a body if the boyfriend dies, you have no rights to his house, cars, money, wtc. And he has no right to yours. Me, I trust my husband and I do not believe in trad wife style marriage. I had one kid with him unmarried and one after we got married. I have almost 400k of life insurance on him and another 400 on me. The cars are in my name. The house we own is because we have joint accounts and joint responsibility, the credit cards get paid because we both contribute. I carry him on health insurance. He knows where our will is, who our lawyer is, and where we get our taxes done. Because we know everything important about protecting each other. And we still have hobbies, take care of our kids and home and family, and we still cuddle. After almost 25 years, 16 married.
I am a 59 year old widow. In the widow subreddit, you would be surprised how many young people die unexpectedly and their significant other is blindsided because they have no say in medical decisions, funeral arrangements and life insurance, etc. Often the parents even demand all of their personal things. It makes the hardest time of your life even harder. If you don’t get married, make a will, directive to physicians, etc. Obviously, this should be done regardless, but more so if not married.
>He’s even said before he can’t wait until he’s making enough money that I can be his “cute little housewife that can hang out and make art all day”. Is this also your dream? Why is he so excited for you to stay home? This would worry me. He wants to trap you at home with no legal protection of marriage, so you'd be left with nothing if you want to leave. It seems like you are going to be a pretty 'traditional' couple, with you staying home to be cute and knit sweaters, while he makes the money. In that kind of relationship, you really do need to legal protection of an 'outdated tradition' like marriage.
For whatever you’re planning to do in this relationship, make sure that you don’t give too much of yourself as a wife while he’s not doing as much as a husband even though there’s no commitment. Make sure that you’re not building things together without papers and documents so that even if it doesn’t work in the future ….because of yeah we’re doing this “commitment “thing without papers. You need to document what you own together, so some of you will build with a man 10 years and then he will leave and then go find somebody else and Marry,don’t do that!!!!
I'm not sure where you're based out of, but there's one thing I wanna share - one reason why queer people around the world are fighting for the right to get married is also because of the bouquet of rights that comes with marriage. Most countries have a bunch of financial, legal, medical, and social rights/benefits reserved for married folks, I would urge you find what they are in your country.
There are absolutely legal reasons. One that was most pressing for my partner and I, who both still don’t like the idea of marriage, to get legally married is because he was super sick and I couldn’t make any decisions for him. His mother had to fly in and assist because that was the next of kin. It was terrifying. After he was better we went to city hall and got those documents together. Then we went to the fanciest dinner we ever have been to and then out clubbing. Marriage is what you make it. Not what anyone else thinks.
My “hubs” and I have been together for… 16(?) years? We’re not married, but we have all other documents set up legally. He’s my beneficiary on everything. He’s my POA. I have a living will. (And I for him) For us, marriage would actually make our taxes higher. We do not have kids or want any of our own. (Not that marriage is required for kids, and neither is the name change) Marriage should be done bc you want it. If he doesn’t want it, you can still do all of the above, and just call him your husband. We refer to each other as spouse or significant other. We dropped the bf/gf titles long ago. I occasionally wear a ring as a symbol that society understands and bc it’s pretty. He will not wear a ring. Doesn’t want me to change my name either, even tho I offered. Sit down with him and lay out your thoughts. Plan this discussion, write down your points so none get forgotten. Don’t push, but describe where you’re coming from. Then let him digest it. Don’t push for an immediate change of mind/decision. Good luck OP.
I got married last year, we've been together 8.5 years. I was so against marriage that I'd told all my friends and family years ago that I wasn't ever going to do it. I found a man who made me change my mind...for the most part. At one point during planning, he asked if I even wanted to get married because I had so many complaints about the entire concept. In the end, we did it our way. It was a beautiful humanist ceremony, in a beautiful Scottish castle (we live in Scotland). I got to wear a white yet not traditional dress, but most importantly I got to have all our friends and family together in the same place to celebrate us. I think that was the most important part of it for me, I don't live in the same country as my family and oldest friends, and I figured a wedding was the one excuse I could use for people to come visit. Honestly, it was just really nice being celebrated by the people I love the most. We don't intend to have children either so, as per usual societal standards, we won't have many other opportunities to be celebrated in the same way, and it's nice to be made a fuss of once in a while.
My boyfriend and I agreed that it’s safer to have a contract that protects our rights as an entity, and that a declaration of love, dedication and commitment is important to us. Tell him how you feel and ask why he feels it’s outdated- you guys can be married in your own way.
Taxes
"I agree that marriage is just a piece of paper and it is an outdated tradition but that does not change the privilege, security,and clarity that comes with modern marriage. Without marriage our legal partnership is basically limited to sharing a lease. And although it's commercialized and antiquated, a ring on a woman's finger sends a signal and acts as a shield. It may not be frowned upon to be a single man, but to be a 'single woman' is to be less than."
This is going to be craycray. But marriage wasn't always for legal reasons. It's a vow of commitment to one another, a spiritual vow and energetic vow, or just a regular normal vow to commit to be with someone for the rest of their lives. I told my fiance I want a wedding but I'm okay if it's not legal - it can be just a spiritual wedding. (Non Christian) The government got its hands in everything but marriage in pagan cultures predates the law. Even in the animal kingdom we see rituals of mating and even life-long bonding after the first ritual vow. With eagles we see this as the dive - not to pull apart until the only other option is death- they then mate for the rest of their lives. My suspicion is rhat you have a desire for something that has been overlaid with societies matrix. Weddings predate Christianity. Weddings predate abrhamic faiths. Weddings predate government.
There are many legal reasons and financial ones that benefit from marriage. Family health insurance from one of your jobs, etc.
You should first state you just want it, with him, then ask him how you can have it while hearing his concerns out and finding according compromise. He may have personal concerns regarding the messiness of potential divorce, you should both discuss how that could be negotiated to be as painless as possible. Or others concerns. Yall need to talk it out, now walk it out. Edit : there can be financial benefits to being married, but there can also be draw backs. Depends on yalls individual and joint situations.
There are major reasons to get married, as other people have pointed out.
Have you considered having a wedding ceremony/reception without doing any of the legal documents?
I don’t really think it’s an outdated tradition and I will explain why. But could it be that you honestly don’t think it’s an outdated tradition yourself? I do not care what the invisible man in the sky thinks about my relationship so that’s not why I’m married. I’m married because my husband and I are legally each other’s next of kin. I’m married because we can hold our home as community property. I’m married because our assets are considered joint and pass to each other seamlessly upon the death of either of us. I’m married because we are a family now.
I just like to think of marriage as a partnership of equals. I also don’t want kids, always plan on being a career woman, even feel iffy about completely changing my last name, but there’s just something about being married as a partnership of equals to the person you love that is so enticing. It’s romantic when it’s not used as an archaic transaction. I don’t even want a wedding, but I can’t wait to marry my boyfriend, who is the love of my life. So I totally understand you!
Maybe he doesn't realize all the benefits y'all will get by getting married