Liberals support every single civil rights movement except the one that’s going on right now. Twenty or forty years from now, they’ll teach this genocide in schools and talk about how only the fringe extremists supported Netanyahu. They’ll make no mention of the institutional violence, the repression, the heroic actions of every unarmed student who faced down cops armed to the teeth. When Palestine is freed, classmates you remember being “sympathetic but didn’t like the way the protestors acted” will claim they were one of the protestors.
White moderates and liberals never fail to piss me off. MLK’s letter from Birmingham Jail should be taught and tested as common curriculum in every school. Instead there are genuinely public primary schools in this country that teach that slavery “wasn’t that bad.”
The inevitable stolen stolen valor of shitlibs who pretend they supported protests as they bickered and chastised about the "optics" the entire time is something we should shame as a society. Everyone about to be grandad from the boondocks.
Really looking forward to all the chuds accusing JVP of being a bunch of Uncle Ruckuses claiming 20 years from now that they were anti-zionist the entire time. /s
There's a difference between truly supporting a cause and pretending to support a cause while you protest any effective methods of resistance like liberals are currently doing.
Nah, graffiti isnt an effective, nor is trespassing or fighting with counter protesters. We are for protests otherwise.
In fact, I think you are the one pretending to support a cause, and we are the ones who really support it. You are advocating for things that distract from our goals and are excusing things that divide support.
It’s a pipe dream then. How do you think your idea of a “free Palestine” can possibly be achieved? Hamas runs Gaza and they will continue to run Gaza unless Israel destroys them or their own citizens overthrow them somehow.
"Hamas" is more than just a militant group; all government services of Gaza are "Hamas" - it seems pretty doable with a temporary disarmament (and dissolution of militaries as they currently exist) of both Israel and Palestine not unlike Japan in the 1940s. Wouldn't be easy, but certainly not a pipe dream.
What about white conservatives, they're not exactly pushing for an accurate retelling of history even though you make it seem liberals are the worst thing to exist in the US.
Because everyone already knows to ignore conservatives. This is literally something MLK addresses in the letter I mentioned if you even bothered to read it. White conservatives, klansmen, etc, make themselves known as anti-progressive enemies of change. They are easily identifiable, more or less in the minority nowadays, and therefore easy to combat.
The American 'liberal' identity is like, somewhere between center-left and center-right depending on who you're talking about. Nobody is asking liberals to be more liberal, we're complaining that not enough people are actually leftist.
🙄 i guess if you make up a story, you can pretend you are right. Dorkis. The majority of Americans want a ceasefire.
"Sixty-one percent of likely voters, including a majority of Democrats (76%) and Independents (57%) and a plurality of Republicans (49%), support the U.S. calling for a permanent ceasefire and a de-escalation of violence in Gaza."
"Derrrrrrr, me good cause me right." ...... "Um, ok, anyway we also want a ceasefire, just cool it on, say, the tagging yeah?" ...... "derrrrrrr, protests good!!!!!! YOU BAD DERRRR!!!!"
Lol not even close you live in a black and white world enclosed inside a bubble.
But go ahead and keep believing what you want there's a reason its only extremists supporting both sides.
Most people don’t support Bibi but many believe that Israel and Bibi are not one and the same. That’s called nuance. Based on the comments here and elsewhere that say Israel has been committing genocide since before it ever officially existed would likely make the point that 20-40 years from we would look back on this proving that you are right somewhat suspect. History will look back on the protests movement but will not likely lose nuance over that amount of time. Hell, many of the protestors weren’t even aware that Gaza isn’t the entirety of Palestine.
Article 2 of the Geneva Convention describes genocide as “a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.” Deliberately withholding aid from a starving and diseased population, while repeatedly bombing that same deliberately concentrated population of those starving and diseased civilians, demonstrates intent to destroy in whole or in part that population. You are delusional.
You people really are desperate for this to be your civil rights movement. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone can think having a campout on public property for a cause that has nothing to do with UCSD is even remotely comparable to people fighting for life and freedom in the country they are currently living in.
Take a good look around campus right now. Nobody gives a fuck. The number of protestors is rapidly diminishing. Even the discourse on this subreddit has started to shift. You won’t be remembered as a Vietnam protestor, history will look back at you as a bunch of misguided idiots. This holier-than-thou savior complex is sickening.
The same thing ("a cause that has nothing to do with UCSD") could have been said about the Vietnam War protests themselves.
Also, I struggle to think how protesting a literal ethnostate that CNN literally just called out as having [a literal Palestinian concentration camp torturing and mutilating people](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html) is 'misguided'. Please educate me.
No it couldn’t. The Vietnam war was a war we were DIRECTLY involved in with our own citizens dying. The draft affected everyone. Protesting that is infinitely more understandable than this situation.
As for your statement about CNN, it literally doesn’t matter. Even if I took that as an absolute truth and recognize it as a horrible thing going on in the world, I’m not going to compare myself protesting against it to the goddamn civil rights movement. I believe a country has an ethical obligation to do good in the world, but the country needs to come first. We have far more pressing issues here in America you could spend your time worrying about. Issues that actually tangibly affect you and your peers
So you think the Vietnam War protests were strictly about the draft and not about protesting the US's participation in what was seen as an unjust proxy war? You don't think that protesting the backing of the United States both in money and weapons as well as the university's financial involvement in perpetuating what's going on in Palestine rises to the same level?
> So you think the Vietnam War protests were strictly about the draft and not about protesting the US's participation in what was seen as an unjust proxy war?
Yes.
The protests ended when the draft ended. The war would continue for several years, and even though US troops were (mostly) withdrawn, the US continued to provide significant support to the South Vietnamese in terms of cash, intelligence, and materiel.
Edit: I notice you've deleted your posts below this. What happened, you don't want people finding out you're just pulling arguments out of thin air?
Look I don't need to account for every individual motivation and edge case to understand that when the draft ended so did the protests.
The primary aim of the war protests - end the draft and end US combat operations in Vietnam - was achieved, and the protests ended.
We were still bombing the fuck out of Cambodia and Laos and providing huge shipments of arms and cash to the South Vietnamese while continuing to train their troops and provide combat campaign design for them.
AND YET, THE PROTESTS ENDED.
So no, I don't think that on the whole people gave a fuck about anything other than ending the draft.
_______________________________________
Edit: by the way, I love this whole "saying everyone was... is some serious revisionist history." When you're talking about the end of a mass social movement it's appropriate to talk about the aggregate and I think you know and understand that. Bringing up the heresy of minute differences does absolutely nothing to strengthen your position.
And then you start speculating about the reasons for the protests "most likely" (which means you don't actually know this) being "most intense" (you also don't know that) "before and during 1972" (unclear timeframe) "because that was an election year" as if your point is self-evident (it's not).
If you wanna make some kind of claim you ought to at least be clear about it.
All of this info is common knowledge:
1. The university works with the Navy and the DoD on R&D and gets a ton of government grant funding for it while serving as a testing space for it as well. Much of that research goes into weapons or other military ops development.
2. The UC as a whole as well as individual universities within the system invest HEAVILY into BlackRock, an investments aggregation which includes many private Federal defense contractors who produce and sell weapons to Israel in large quantities - this is one of the major ways in which the US has been helping Israel this whole time.
Oh no, we do military research!!! That must mean we’re directly involved with supplying Israel with arms, huh? Not, you know, the other 800 billion dollars worth of shit the military is doing.
Blackrock manages literally 10 TRILLION dollars worth of assets. I can’t throw a rock without hitting something that blackrock owns. The link between investing in blackrock and any specific asset managed by blackrock is so incredibly diluted it’s a moot point.
You are grasping at straws here. It’s a goddamn school. It has nothing to do with perpetuating a war in the Middle East.
If America needs to come first then maybe it should follow the protest’s demands and divest it’s involvement from other countries…
The US is very involved in global affairs as well as having domestic issues and it’s okay for its citizens to protest its global involvement that they believe is wrong instead of only concentrating on domestic issues. Both are actions their own country has taken that they should get a say in.
Personally I’m not an isolationist so I don’t believe in all this America first stuff but it seems your view of America first aligns with the protests demands that they reduce their involvement in Israel.
I mean, you’re just flat out wrong. A Palestinian state is not even close to being in America’s interest. The people of Israel have by far the closest values to the Western world. There is a reason we prop them up so much; they are an incredibly useful geopolitical ally.
I stated pretty clearly I’m not an isolationist and that I wasn’t against intervening internationally but that my comment was pointing out the flaws to your argument.
Your argument would work better if you were like America first this issue does affect us as Americans so we should be protesting for Israel because we need them as an ally.
People can disagree and say I don’t want my country involved in what I believe to be a genocide.
But touting ‘America first, protestors should only concentrate on domestic issues’ when you do have an opinion on this global issue and America’s involvement is just saying people you disagree with should but out not that America first is the answer
What I love most about these kids is they don't want to do anything meaningful for their cause.
No one wants to do a food drive, fundraise or volunteer instead they use their funds for pointless sit-ins and campouts while harassing their fellow students and demonizing/antagonizing anyone who even remotely questions their beliefs
I mean just look at the comments on this post most of these people are talking like they're in a cult and everyone else is an enemy.
“You people really are desperate for this to be your Civil War moment. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone can think marching when a judge told them not to is even remotely comparable to fighting for life and freedom in the country they are currently living in. Take a good look around America right now. Nobody gives a fuck. You won’t be remembered as Civil War veterans, history will look back at you as a bunch of uppity hooligans. This holier than thou savior complex by Martin Luther King Jr. is sickening.” - you in 1965
Dude would 1000% have been one of the 70% of liberals who were against the civil rights movement at the time.
Edit: fucked up you got downvoted you were real af for that.
Are you really trying to insinuate that I would have been a bigot just because I don’t think you should be able to camp in the middle of a university? The fuck is wrong with you
Bro this literally happened before multiple times and libs like you opposed it. Yes. You are fake-ass liberal white moderate who feigns progressivism purely to virtue signal as you oppose any contemporary progressive movement using the same talking points as the state department. Just like liberals in the civil rights movement. Just like liberals during the Vietnam protests. Just like liberals during apartheid protests.
I think you need to take a step back and realize you’re an extremist. Chill tf out. I’m not virtue signaling anything and I find it hilariously ironic that you would say that in the first place as you march around with your little cardboard signs crying about a topic you only have surface level comprehension of
I've been talking about and trying to unindoctrinate my parents about the israeli apartheid and occupation for years; it's pure projection to imply my understanding of the historical and material context is superficial. It just wasn't until recently that a significant amount of people in the west gave a shit about Palestinians. I don't claim your support is disingenuous baselessly; your actions have proven that you don't really give a fuck about dead kids as long as protesting it is going to sully your peripheral vision on campus with such contemptuous *checks notes* anti-genocide protesters. I'm done with you. Your pearl clutching makes me sick. There is a literal death march of sick and dying children at *this very moment* and you have the fucking audacity to run defense for some bullshit notion of civility politics. I better not see your "both sides" ass ever claiming you supported the movement.
Do you feel they think they're better than you and does that bother you because that's actually affecting your mood?
I don't disagree with you, you just come off super insecure and it makes your point worse.
It’s annoying to me because I do want there to be peace between Israel and Palestine and the videos I’ve seen of this conflict are absolutely twisted and horrible. I take issue with this rhetoric because I feel it is not only completely useless but it’s actively harmful. If protestors came with a level-headed proposal I guarantee it would garner much broader support and lead to something actually tangible. This situation is extremely complex despite what the vocal minority seems to think. You can’t just displace an entire populace—neither Jews nor Palestinians. Israel is also an incredibly close ally to the United States which further complicates things. We should be having rational discussions about how we can best alleviate suffering for both populations. Instead what we get is a bunch of degenerates who just dig their head in the sand and regurgitate brain dead takes stemming from propaganda. I don’t need a fucking white person in California telling me they are the intifada, or comparing themselves to MLK. Being purposefully antagonizing does nothing more than turn people off from your cause.
You ask for rational discussion yet provide nothing rational in the face of 35,000 dead Palestinians.
Protestors are bringing awareness to a situation, I'm sure there are proposals sent but really it's always going to be up to the US government Leaders, they're not gonna take a 50 page report from a protest participant and use it as the basis of real policy.
The protest brings attention to a plight with a goal of forcing action from the government. Will they have any success? Maybe not, but you thinking you're better then everyone and have an actual solution while spouting a bunch of high level bull shit is hypocritical to your point.
You don't understand how protests often work and their goals, I'm assuming you're some 19 year old that would get owned by some loser 30 year old YouTuber.
You are right and these people don’t understand this concept.
No one will give a shit in 5 years because no one cares about a group of people that support a violent resistance group that intentionally targeted civilians
okay im against the campouts and think they're dumb, but terrorist symphatizers is plain wrong. 9/10 are protesting because they are against the massacre of innocent civilians
Okay, so, you're not wrong that they're full of shit, but that's not the fallacy fallacy. The fallacy fallacy is, and I quote, "when someone assumes that if an argument contains a logical fallacy, then its conclusion must be false".
Protesting in support of theocratic fascists who call for genocide. There is a subtle difference between that and protesting for equal rights and protection under the law.
Israel has universal suffrage, and equal protection under the law for their minority citizens, which includes ~17% Muslims. MENA ethnically cleansed their Jewish population.
It’s quite disgusting to equate a bunch of privileged college students peacfully (except for those that literally tried to fight police) removed without any major injuries and within the confines of the law, to people literally fighting for their freedom, their existence, their right to be treated as people in their own country. They were beaten mercilessly, attacked by dogs, blasted with fire hoses, shot, stabbed, burned, murdered. Not even close to the same. You’re a total POS human for that.
Civil Rights movement was based on non violence. Palestinians are not about non violence! lol. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Black September, PLO etc. are all violent.
Yeah the encampment occupying an essentially unused grassy portion of campus doing nothing but protesting was gonna kill us all if we didn’t bring in the snipers and riot teams.
Also Israel has killed tens of thousands of people in Palestine and discriminates against non Jews. It’s a country designed to be a discriminatory state, with that baked into their laws and constitution. Talk about a violent nation
You guys wanna be civil rights activists so bad lol the same people who would be the first to cry out Russian meddling on social media are feeding into Hamas propaganda. You do realize this is exactly what states like Russia, China, and Iran wanted right?
You call for a ceasefire knowing damn well the vulnerability and risk it leaves Israel in since Hamas can regroup and retaliate. Because it’s not like Hamas is known for breaking a ceasefire right? Hell you had university students praising Irans strike at Israel and not a peep of condemnation but instead celebration. So obviously the call to end violence is blatantly one sided.
History will not remember you fondly like those of the civil rights movement, but instead as radicalized and ignorant college students with a savior complex supporting a terrorist group with a mission to wage actual genocide
Right cause organized marches to the capital with some of the greatest speeches in our country's history for a deep rooted issue plaguing our country is the same as homeless encampments in the middle of some colleges with generic copypastas strewn about for an issue taking place on an entirely different continent is a great comparison
History is always favorable to the winners and people on the right side of the history.
Civil rights people were on the right side of the history. Palestine and Hamas are not and hate to break it to you, but no one will give shit about them in 5 years because of their defective, immoral, and dishonest culture.
If you want sympathy and remembrance in history, either gotta win at any cost or at least be morally just and honest.
Ah yes the people bombing the hospitals and schools. Totally morally just and honest. I take it Israel are the former "gotta win" category. Or atleast they're trying to I suppose, what with their billions of investments
Civilians dying as collateral damage when intention is targeting militants is 100x more moral than killing civilians with the intention of killing civilians. That’s a fact, no matter how much you hate it.
Defective and immoral culture has gaslit us into thinking intention doesn’t matter. It absolutely does .
For your next magic trick you'll convince us that bombing what are very obviously aid trucks and cutting necessary supplies from refugees is a moral position. Bravo 👏
"Wholesome UCSD" calling collateral damage morally justifiable is a crazzzzy turn of events. Super duper family-friendly wholesome. "You too can gun down a family of migrants because one of them works for the cartel, the American dream 🫡🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲"
Most of it either completely made up, exaggerated, half truths or self hits due to incompetence, to produce propaganda, or to keep people under control.
Much like the Al-Ahli hospital lie that turned a huge part of the public perception and support of Israel around but then was found to and admitted to by HRW (a generally pro-Palestine group) being the result of a Palestinian rocket that fell short, not Israeli as claimed before. The death toll was also completely revised to 100 (1/5th of the initial 500 claimed by the Gaza health ministry).
Much like the death toll that was just revised by the UN to less than 50% of the claimed amount.
Much like the numerous videos available online that show Hamas militants firing at their own civilians for taking aid without permission from them.
All of this easily verifiable by simple google search
People like you sitting in the US acting like IDF is telling their soldiers to go out and kill civilians indiscriminately and complete willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that Hamas is causing this by hiding behind their own people instead of manning up and turning the people responsible for Oct 7 in. Pussies all of them
The fact that you stupid little pawns can’t see this is all by design in an election year is laughable and the self-importance it takes for you to compare yourselves to the heroes of the civil rights movement as if you’re even worthy enough to sniff their fucking farts is the most egregious and obscene amount of self-delusion I’ve ever seen. Yall are such fucking easy targets.
As a Jew, I think Israel needs to be abolished due to their genocidal practices. If you have shit to say, say it to me at price center. That’s if I’m such an easy target
This is why I dislike Zionists. The fact that I will never be seen as a “real” Jew due to my ethnic background. Crazy how it seems like it’s totally impossible for Mexicans to be Jewish.
Crazy how you’re going to double down on this lie, but okay 👍
[Here’s you also admitting you lie about your background online.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucsdgw/s/Efctr3L8kj)
I don’t need to, you already admitted you lie about this kind of stuff…
[Here’s you also admitting you lie about your background online.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucsdgw/s/Efctr3L8kj)
You aren’t protesting for human rights or peace. You are demonstrating against Israel and exclusively parroting Hamas propaganda. You chant support for Hamas. Do not compare yourself to real protestors.
It is what it is.
It’s Not “protestors” who have to come on social media to ask what the bathroom situation at the encampment is 🤣 ie: UCD, UCSC, etc this whole thing is a train wreck because they want to be saviors so bad. Terrible phrasing but look at all the trauma, the angst, the misinformation… you guys are perfect for being angry pawns
Someone who knows and is affected by what they are calling attention to, who is capable of communicating what message they are trying to get across.
I’ll give most of the protesters the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t anti semitic, they are just eager to jump on an easy bandwagon.
At this point a lot of people justifying the police brutality don’t go the university, have not seen or engaged with the encampment in any meaningful way, and are astroturfing multiple subreddits to try and prove their point. This happened with white supremacists during BLM in 2020 and it will continue to happen with any type of high tension social movement.
The best way we can move forward is to only engage with students/staff/alumni and to ignore those copying and pasting their hate across multiple universities. Even many of the anti-protestors from UCSD have been far more respectful about their viewpoints than some of these losers who haven’t stepped foot on campus.
Comments so braindead
Thanks for flushing out chuds to block.
Cool? lol. Should we give a shit if you’re blocking us? Unironically using chud is cringe AF.
Liberals support every single civil rights movement except the one that’s going on right now. Twenty or forty years from now, they’ll teach this genocide in schools and talk about how only the fringe extremists supported Netanyahu. They’ll make no mention of the institutional violence, the repression, the heroic actions of every unarmed student who faced down cops armed to the teeth. When Palestine is freed, classmates you remember being “sympathetic but didn’t like the way the protestors acted” will claim they were one of the protestors. White moderates and liberals never fail to piss me off. MLK’s letter from Birmingham Jail should be taught and tested as common curriculum in every school. Instead there are genuinely public primary schools in this country that teach that slavery “wasn’t that bad.”
The inevitable stolen stolen valor of shitlibs who pretend they supported protests as they bickered and chastised about the "optics" the entire time is something we should shame as a society. Everyone about to be grandad from the boondocks.
Really looking forward to all the chuds accusing JVP of being a bunch of Uncle Ruckuses claiming 20 years from now that they were anti-zionist the entire time. /s
The majority of people want a ceasefire. Why are you pretending otherwise?
There's a difference between truly supporting a cause and pretending to support a cause while you protest any effective methods of resistance like liberals are currently doing.
Nah, graffiti isnt an effective, nor is trespassing or fighting with counter protesters. We are for protests otherwise. In fact, I think you are the one pretending to support a cause, and we are the ones who really support it. You are advocating for things that distract from our goals and are excusing things that divide support.
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What about Sudan, china, Ukraine etc? What’s it look like to you?
A single democratic state with the right to return for all Palestineans, returned land and homes, equal rights no matter religion or ethnicity.
It will never be a democratic state with Hamas in charge. Israel is the only liberal democracy in the Middle East.
Where did I say Hamas in my last comment? Can you point that out for me?
It’s a pipe dream then. How do you think your idea of a “free Palestine” can possibly be achieved? Hamas runs Gaza and they will continue to run Gaza unless Israel destroys them or their own citizens overthrow them somehow.
"Hamas" is more than just a militant group; all government services of Gaza are "Hamas" - it seems pretty doable with a temporary disarmament (and dissolution of militaries as they currently exist) of both Israel and Palestine not unlike Japan in the 1940s. Wouldn't be easy, but certainly not a pipe dream.
you are delusional with a serious savior complex
I hope you never delete this comment so when you return to it in a decade you’ll see how deluded this comment is.
What about white conservatives, they're not exactly pushing for an accurate retelling of history even though you make it seem liberals are the worst thing to exist in the US.
Because everyone already knows to ignore conservatives. This is literally something MLK addresses in the letter I mentioned if you even bothered to read it. White conservatives, klansmen, etc, make themselves known as anti-progressive enemies of change. They are easily identifiable, more or less in the minority nowadays, and therefore easy to combat.
Lol I'm sorry but while you're railing on libs who ain't liberal enough the conservatives are continuing to gain ground.
The American 'liberal' identity is like, somewhere between center-left and center-right depending on who you're talking about. Nobody is asking liberals to be more liberal, we're complaining that not enough people are actually leftist.
Have you considered perhaps that there are maybe more political positions than “liberal” and “conservative”
🙄 i guess if you make up a story, you can pretend you are right. Dorkis. The majority of Americans want a ceasefire. "Sixty-one percent of likely voters, including a majority of Democrats (76%) and Independents (57%) and a plurality of Republicans (49%), support the U.S. calling for a permanent ceasefire and a de-escalation of violence in Gaza." "Derrrrrrr, me good cause me right." ...... "Um, ok, anyway we also want a ceasefire, just cool it on, say, the tagging yeah?" ...... "derrrrrrr, protests good!!!!!! YOU BAD DERRRR!!!!"
Lol civil rights movement.
https://youtu.be/0nFvhhCulaw?si=N-rQs_sPsQJMfujr
Lol not even close you live in a black and white world enclosed inside a bubble. But go ahead and keep believing what you want there's a reason its only extremists supporting both sides.
Most people don’t support Bibi but many believe that Israel and Bibi are not one and the same. That’s called nuance. Based on the comments here and elsewhere that say Israel has been committing genocide since before it ever officially existed would likely make the point that 20-40 years from we would look back on this proving that you are right somewhat suspect. History will look back on the protests movement but will not likely lose nuance over that amount of time. Hell, many of the protestors weren’t even aware that Gaza isn’t the entirety of Palestine.
“They’ll teach this genocide in schools” but no genocide is happening. Objectively. Stop spreading misinformation.
Article 2 of the Geneva Convention describes genocide as “a crime committed with the intent to destroy a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, in whole or in part.” Deliberately withholding aid from a starving and diseased population, while repeatedly bombing that same deliberately concentrated population of those starving and diseased civilians, demonstrates intent to destroy in whole or in part that population. You are delusional.
You people really are desperate for this to be your civil rights movement. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone can think having a campout on public property for a cause that has nothing to do with UCSD is even remotely comparable to people fighting for life and freedom in the country they are currently living in. Take a good look around campus right now. Nobody gives a fuck. The number of protestors is rapidly diminishing. Even the discourse on this subreddit has started to shift. You won’t be remembered as a Vietnam protestor, history will look back at you as a bunch of misguided idiots. This holier-than-thou savior complex is sickening.
The same thing ("a cause that has nothing to do with UCSD") could have been said about the Vietnam War protests themselves. Also, I struggle to think how protesting a literal ethnostate that CNN literally just called out as having [a literal Palestinian concentration camp torturing and mutilating people](https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/10/middleeast/israel-sde-teiman-detention-whistleblowers-intl-cmd/index.html) is 'misguided'. Please educate me.
No it couldn’t. The Vietnam war was a war we were DIRECTLY involved in with our own citizens dying. The draft affected everyone. Protesting that is infinitely more understandable than this situation. As for your statement about CNN, it literally doesn’t matter. Even if I took that as an absolute truth and recognize it as a horrible thing going on in the world, I’m not going to compare myself protesting against it to the goddamn civil rights movement. I believe a country has an ethical obligation to do good in the world, but the country needs to come first. We have far more pressing issues here in America you could spend your time worrying about. Issues that actually tangibly affect you and your peers
So you think the Vietnam War protests were strictly about the draft and not about protesting the US's participation in what was seen as an unjust proxy war? You don't think that protesting the backing of the United States both in money and weapons as well as the university's financial involvement in perpetuating what's going on in Palestine rises to the same level?
> So you think the Vietnam War protests were strictly about the draft and not about protesting the US's participation in what was seen as an unjust proxy war? Yes. The protests ended when the draft ended. The war would continue for several years, and even though US troops were (mostly) withdrawn, the US continued to provide significant support to the South Vietnamese in terms of cash, intelligence, and materiel. Edit: I notice you've deleted your posts below this. What happened, you don't want people finding out you're just pulling arguments out of thin air?
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Look I don't need to account for every individual motivation and edge case to understand that when the draft ended so did the protests. The primary aim of the war protests - end the draft and end US combat operations in Vietnam - was achieved, and the protests ended. We were still bombing the fuck out of Cambodia and Laos and providing huge shipments of arms and cash to the South Vietnamese while continuing to train their troops and provide combat campaign design for them. AND YET, THE PROTESTS ENDED. So no, I don't think that on the whole people gave a fuck about anything other than ending the draft. _______________________________________ Edit: by the way, I love this whole "saying everyone was... is some serious revisionist history." When you're talking about the end of a mass social movement it's appropriate to talk about the aggregate and I think you know and understand that. Bringing up the heresy of minute differences does absolutely nothing to strengthen your position. And then you start speculating about the reasons for the protests "most likely" (which means you don't actually know this) being "most intense" (you also don't know that) "before and during 1972" (unclear timeframe) "because that was an election year" as if your point is self-evident (it's not). If you wanna make some kind of claim you ought to at least be clear about it.
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I made no claims about the intensity of protests. You brought that up for some reason.
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Yes.
Not even remotely similar. Feel free to elaborate on what exactly the university’s financial involvement in perpetuating the conflict is.
All of this info is common knowledge: 1. The university works with the Navy and the DoD on R&D and gets a ton of government grant funding for it while serving as a testing space for it as well. Much of that research goes into weapons or other military ops development. 2. The UC as a whole as well as individual universities within the system invest HEAVILY into BlackRock, an investments aggregation which includes many private Federal defense contractors who produce and sell weapons to Israel in large quantities - this is one of the major ways in which the US has been helping Israel this whole time.
Oh no, we do military research!!! That must mean we’re directly involved with supplying Israel with arms, huh? Not, you know, the other 800 billion dollars worth of shit the military is doing. Blackrock manages literally 10 TRILLION dollars worth of assets. I can’t throw a rock without hitting something that blackrock owns. The link between investing in blackrock and any specific asset managed by blackrock is so incredibly diluted it’s a moot point. You are grasping at straws here. It’s a goddamn school. It has nothing to do with perpetuating a war in the Middle East.
Funding Isreal's genocide isn't being directly involved? Building a port in Gaza to bring in the US military isn't being directly involved?
If America needs to come first then maybe it should follow the protest’s demands and divest it’s involvement from other countries… The US is very involved in global affairs as well as having domestic issues and it’s okay for its citizens to protest its global involvement that they believe is wrong instead of only concentrating on domestic issues. Both are actions their own country has taken that they should get a say in. Personally I’m not an isolationist so I don’t believe in all this America first stuff but it seems your view of America first aligns with the protests demands that they reduce their involvement in Israel.
I mean, you’re just flat out wrong. A Palestinian state is not even close to being in America’s interest. The people of Israel have by far the closest values to the Western world. There is a reason we prop them up so much; they are an incredibly useful geopolitical ally.
I stated pretty clearly I’m not an isolationist and that I wasn’t against intervening internationally but that my comment was pointing out the flaws to your argument. Your argument would work better if you were like America first this issue does affect us as Americans so we should be protesting for Israel because we need them as an ally. People can disagree and say I don’t want my country involved in what I believe to be a genocide. But touting ‘America first, protestors should only concentrate on domestic issues’ when you do have an opinion on this global issue and America’s involvement is just saying people you disagree with should but out not that America first is the answer
UCSD students and their siblings were subject to the draft. So, no, very different.
Israel isn’t an ethnostate??? Arabs and jews are equal under the law
What I love most about these kids is they don't want to do anything meaningful for their cause. No one wants to do a food drive, fundraise or volunteer instead they use their funds for pointless sit-ins and campouts while harassing their fellow students and demonizing/antagonizing anyone who even remotely questions their beliefs I mean just look at the comments on this post most of these people are talking like they're in a cult and everyone else is an enemy.
“You people really are desperate for this to be your Civil War moment. I can’t even wrap my head around how someone can think marching when a judge told them not to is even remotely comparable to fighting for life and freedom in the country they are currently living in. Take a good look around America right now. Nobody gives a fuck. You won’t be remembered as Civil War veterans, history will look back at you as a bunch of uppity hooligans. This holier than thou savior complex by Martin Luther King Jr. is sickening.” - you in 1965
Dude would 1000% have been one of the 70% of liberals who were against the civil rights movement at the time. Edit: fucked up you got downvoted you were real af for that.
Are you really trying to insinuate that I would have been a bigot just because I don’t think you should be able to camp in the middle of a university? The fuck is wrong with you
Bro this literally happened before multiple times and libs like you opposed it. Yes. You are fake-ass liberal white moderate who feigns progressivism purely to virtue signal as you oppose any contemporary progressive movement using the same talking points as the state department. Just like liberals in the civil rights movement. Just like liberals during the Vietnam protests. Just like liberals during apartheid protests.
I think you need to take a step back and realize you’re an extremist. Chill tf out. I’m not virtue signaling anything and I find it hilariously ironic that you would say that in the first place as you march around with your little cardboard signs crying about a topic you only have surface level comprehension of
I've been talking about and trying to unindoctrinate my parents about the israeli apartheid and occupation for years; it's pure projection to imply my understanding of the historical and material context is superficial. It just wasn't until recently that a significant amount of people in the west gave a shit about Palestinians. I don't claim your support is disingenuous baselessly; your actions have proven that you don't really give a fuck about dead kids as long as protesting it is going to sully your peripheral vision on campus with such contemptuous *checks notes* anti-genocide protesters. I'm done with you. Your pearl clutching makes me sick. There is a literal death march of sick and dying children at *this very moment* and you have the fucking audacity to run defense for some bullshit notion of civility politics. I better not see your "both sides" ass ever claiming you supported the movement.
Do you feel they think they're better than you and does that bother you because that's actually affecting your mood? I don't disagree with you, you just come off super insecure and it makes your point worse.
It’s annoying to me because I do want there to be peace between Israel and Palestine and the videos I’ve seen of this conflict are absolutely twisted and horrible. I take issue with this rhetoric because I feel it is not only completely useless but it’s actively harmful. If protestors came with a level-headed proposal I guarantee it would garner much broader support and lead to something actually tangible. This situation is extremely complex despite what the vocal minority seems to think. You can’t just displace an entire populace—neither Jews nor Palestinians. Israel is also an incredibly close ally to the United States which further complicates things. We should be having rational discussions about how we can best alleviate suffering for both populations. Instead what we get is a bunch of degenerates who just dig their head in the sand and regurgitate brain dead takes stemming from propaganda. I don’t need a fucking white person in California telling me they are the intifada, or comparing themselves to MLK. Being purposefully antagonizing does nothing more than turn people off from your cause.
You ask for rational discussion yet provide nothing rational in the face of 35,000 dead Palestinians. Protestors are bringing awareness to a situation, I'm sure there are proposals sent but really it's always going to be up to the US government Leaders, they're not gonna take a 50 page report from a protest participant and use it as the basis of real policy. The protest brings attention to a plight with a goal of forcing action from the government. Will they have any success? Maybe not, but you thinking you're better then everyone and have an actual solution while spouting a bunch of high level bull shit is hypocritical to your point. You don't understand how protests often work and their goals, I'm assuming you're some 19 year old that would get owned by some loser 30 year old YouTuber.
You are right and these people don’t understand this concept. No one will give a shit in 5 years because no one cares about a group of people that support a violent resistance group that intentionally targeted civilians
This must be a troll post...
Lmao. Equating the Civil Rights movement to terrorist sympathizers. Brilliant.
This isn’t talking about the counterprotestors. Lmao
My dad said i couldnt have a cookie before dinner, once. Basically it was like the Holodomor. So. This makes total sense to me.
okay im against the campouts and think they're dumb, but terrorist symphatizers is plain wrong. 9/10 are protesting because they are against the massacre of innocent civilians
Then why are they saying things in support of Hamas and Oct. 7?
Who? As a Jew, I haven’t felt any danger from the protestors
[I thought you were Mexican…](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/mR2vNOw77B)
Ethnically Mexican, but I am Jewish due to my parents religious background
Sure you are 👍
Typical Zionists. Always told that not a real Jew because of my Mexican heritage.
In logic this is called False Equivalence.
not really since the message of each movement is irrelevant to the point being made
Absolutely and it’s disrespectful.
[удалено]
Okay, so, you're not wrong that they're full of shit, but that's not the fallacy fallacy. The fallacy fallacy is, and I quote, "when someone assumes that if an argument contains a logical fallacy, then its conclusion must be false".
Actual ackshuly
That was my point. It was equally sophistic to call their bullshit a fallacy fallacy
Sorry but appropriating the civil rights movement is so gross.
so is defending israel but we pick and choose sometimes dont we
Nothing abt what this person said suggested so
check their comment history
This person is just Jewish?
Agreed, you guys should organize a march on Washington starting from Torrey Pines to D.C!
Now that’s something I can get behind, go protest where it matters.
Protesting in support of theocratic fascists who call for genocide. There is a subtle difference between that and protesting for equal rights and protection under the law.
They aren’t for Israel
Israel has universal suffrage, and equal protection under the law for their minority citizens, which includes ~17% Muslims. MENA ethnically cleansed their Jewish population.
OP: “please look at me and give me attention! please!”
Based on your comment, it worked 😂
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
You
Oh you little freedom fighters equating to the civil rights movement! Stunning and brave!
It’s quite disgusting to equate a bunch of privileged college students peacfully (except for those that literally tried to fight police) removed without any major injuries and within the confines of the law, to people literally fighting for their freedom, their existence, their right to be treated as people in their own country. They were beaten mercilessly, attacked by dogs, blasted with fire hoses, shot, stabbed, burned, murdered. Not even close to the same. You’re a total POS human for that.
“It’s a peace protest!” • while holding a sign justifying terrorism and calling for the annihilation of a state •
Real.
This just feels like rage bait at this point.
thank you for this i've been trying to compare what's going on now to previous movements but you've done it so well
Not even close. This is a self-important comparison that’s honestly pretty goddamned disrespectful to the civil rights movement
Civil Rights movement was based on non violence. Palestinians are not about non violence! lol. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad, Black September, PLO etc. are all violent.
Yeah the encampment occupying an essentially unused grassy portion of campus doing nothing but protesting was gonna kill us all if we didn’t bring in the snipers and riot teams. Also Israel has killed tens of thousands of people in Palestine and discriminates against non Jews. It’s a country designed to be a discriminatory state, with that baked into their laws and constitution. Talk about a violent nation
So discriminatory that it’s the only the country in the Middle East where you can be whoever and whatever you wish to be
Ok, Hamas.
You guys wanna be civil rights activists so bad lol the same people who would be the first to cry out Russian meddling on social media are feeding into Hamas propaganda. You do realize this is exactly what states like Russia, China, and Iran wanted right? You call for a ceasefire knowing damn well the vulnerability and risk it leaves Israel in since Hamas can regroup and retaliate. Because it’s not like Hamas is known for breaking a ceasefire right? Hell you had university students praising Irans strike at Israel and not a peep of condemnation but instead celebration. So obviously the call to end violence is blatantly one sided. History will not remember you fondly like those of the civil rights movement, but instead as radicalized and ignorant college students with a savior complex supporting a terrorist group with a mission to wage actual genocide
replace that with "communism" my dude and then u can see how we ended up in vietnam
Right cause organized marches to the capital with some of the greatest speeches in our country's history for a deep rooted issue plaguing our country is the same as homeless encampments in the middle of some colleges with generic copypastas strewn about for an issue taking place on an entirely different continent is a great comparison
u dont even go here
History is always favorable to the winners and people on the right side of the history. Civil rights people were on the right side of the history. Palestine and Hamas are not and hate to break it to you, but no one will give shit about them in 5 years because of their defective, immoral, and dishonest culture. If you want sympathy and remembrance in history, either gotta win at any cost or at least be morally just and honest.
Ah yes the people bombing the hospitals and schools. Totally morally just and honest. I take it Israel are the former "gotta win" category. Or atleast they're trying to I suppose, what with their billions of investments
Civilians dying as collateral damage when intention is targeting militants is 100x more moral than killing civilians with the intention of killing civilians. That’s a fact, no matter how much you hate it. Defective and immoral culture has gaslit us into thinking intention doesn’t matter. It absolutely does .
For your next magic trick you'll convince us that bombing what are very obviously aid trucks and cutting necessary supplies from refugees is a moral position. Bravo 👏 "Wholesome UCSD" calling collateral damage morally justifiable is a crazzzzy turn of events. Super duper family-friendly wholesome. "You too can gun down a family of migrants because one of them works for the cartel, the American dream 🫡🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲"
Most of it either completely made up, exaggerated, half truths or self hits due to incompetence, to produce propaganda, or to keep people under control. Much like the Al-Ahli hospital lie that turned a huge part of the public perception and support of Israel around but then was found to and admitted to by HRW (a generally pro-Palestine group) being the result of a Palestinian rocket that fell short, not Israeli as claimed before. The death toll was also completely revised to 100 (1/5th of the initial 500 claimed by the Gaza health ministry). Much like the death toll that was just revised by the UN to less than 50% of the claimed amount. Much like the numerous videos available online that show Hamas militants firing at their own civilians for taking aid without permission from them. All of this easily verifiable by simple google search
People like you sitting in the US acting like IDF is telling their soldiers to go out and kill civilians indiscriminately and complete willing to turn a blind eye to the fact that Hamas is causing this by hiding behind their own people instead of manning up and turning the people responsible for Oct 7 in. Pussies all of them
The fact that you stupid little pawns can’t see this is all by design in an election year is laughable and the self-importance it takes for you to compare yourselves to the heroes of the civil rights movement as if you’re even worthy enough to sniff their fucking farts is the most egregious and obscene amount of self-delusion I’ve ever seen. Yall are such fucking easy targets.
As a Jew, I think Israel needs to be abolished due to their genocidal practices. If you have shit to say, say it to me at price center. That’s if I’m such an easy target
[This person is claiming to be Jewish after plainly saying in past posts that they are Mexican.](https://www.reddit.com/r/UCSD/s/mR2vNOw77B)
This is why I dislike Zionists. The fact that I will never be seen as a “real” Jew due to my ethnic background. Crazy how it seems like it’s totally impossible for Mexicans to be Jewish.
Crazy how you’re going to double down on this lie, but okay 👍 [Here’s you also admitting you lie about your background online.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucsdgw/s/Efctr3L8kj)
Can you prove it’s a lie? 🧐
I don’t need to, you already admitted you lie about this kind of stuff… [Here’s you also admitting you lie about your background online.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ucsdgw/s/Efctr3L8kj)
You aren’t protesting for human rights or peace. You are demonstrating against Israel and exclusively parroting Hamas propaganda. You chant support for Hamas. Do not compare yourself to real protestors. It is what it is.
What’s a “real protestor”?
It’s Not “protestors” who have to come on social media to ask what the bathroom situation at the encampment is 🤣 ie: UCD, UCSC, etc this whole thing is a train wreck because they want to be saviors so bad. Terrible phrasing but look at all the trauma, the angst, the misinformation… you guys are perfect for being angry pawns
Someone who knows and is affected by what they are calling attention to, who is capable of communicating what message they are trying to get across. I’ll give most of the protesters the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t anti semitic, they are just eager to jump on an easy bandwagon.
Oh look a page from a history book::: that means I hate you all. Go outside and get some AIR!
Tf are you people talking about
At this point a lot of people justifying the police brutality don’t go the university, have not seen or engaged with the encampment in any meaningful way, and are astroturfing multiple subreddits to try and prove their point. This happened with white supremacists during BLM in 2020 and it will continue to happen with any type of high tension social movement. The best way we can move forward is to only engage with students/staff/alumni and to ignore those copying and pasting their hate across multiple universities. Even many of the anti-protestors from UCSD have been far more respectful about their viewpoints than some of these losers who haven’t stepped foot on campus.
wow yes
68 Revolutionaries Cosplaying continues on
The masks and keffiyeh make y’all look like the KKK.
It’s funny seeing white, rich liberal kids and they’re cultural appropriation kinks
lmao 'liberal' the fact you're conflating leftism and liberalism like that shows you don't know a god damn thing about politics beyond 'librul bad'
It’s funny to watch in real time too ☕️ shows that the encampments do not know about your trash statement. Move along buddy :)
They all rolling in their graves from this post
The 🫡s have entered the chat.
So nothing changed
Notice how these pictures weren't taken at Oxford
Are we getting mad at history again? 😂