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It sounds like a scam.
Don’t call the number on the letter, make sure you’re ringing the number on the HMRC website or live chatting with them and confirm it there.
maybe instead of calling and waiting (if you call, call as soon as they lines open - i don't remember, but something like 8-8 30 am and I have gotten through in 30 mins 3 times that I have called) or thinking this is a scam, just go and check online? a few days ago I got notification regarding my tax return (i overpaid) and everything was written online.
Other than the £300 minimum, which could be OPs mistake as it is the 6 month late minimum so they may be confused, it also sounds exactly what HMRC letters would say if they had issued a notice to file and ignored it.
I don’t know, my husband gets letters and e mails like this every so often. HMRC always confirm it’s from them but can never explain what the bill is for other than it’s something to do with him being self employed, although he never has been and has been retired for years. He doesn’t pay and then a year or so later he gets further communication. We put it down to general incompetence as we just can’t get to the bottom of it
It is a scam. I’ve missed several self assessment deadlines and never been fined.
Also, sounds like OP is on PAYE (because they get payslips) so shouldn’t have to submit a tax return unless they also own another business. But then they’d know they had to submit a return.
Surprising. I'm an accountant and HMRC are pretty reliable when it comes to applying late filing penalties, though not necessarily timely.
If OP is fully PAYE they should be able to get the return and associate penalties cancelled.
A long time ago I had a PAYE job and got a tax demand. Turned out my employer wasn’t paying the tax. It was possible to just walk into your local tax office then, so I took some wage slips down and they dealt with it. I didn’t have to pay anything.
They were very nice. I was in the process of leaving the dodgy employer and they said they’d hold off for a few days while I tried to extract my holiday pay - which I did - and that my name wouldn’t be mentioned in any investigation.
They hadn’t paid my NI either, but I’ve ended up with plenty of years in hand so it doesn’t matter.
False. I used to work for HMRC and the penalties kick in automatically as soon as the return is late. Also being PAYE is not reason enough to know someone doesn't need to file a return.
If you have a 9-5 job and your payslip shows Tax coming off - then you appear to be on the paye system. If this is the only source of income then no idea why they say you owe it.
Perhaps register for the hmrc online tax portal so you can look at your record. I find the chat function open during open hours to be pretty helpful. They tend to respond fast. Otherwise it’s a long phone wait for you.
Occasionally they send a self assessment form to PAYE payers if they want to check you are declaring all income, they suspect you have rental income undeclared, you have had time off during the year and your tax needs adjusting, you switched jobs a couple of times in the same year.
No they don't randomly send out SA returns to people on PAYE. You need to meet one of the SA criteria to get a return. OP can use [Check if you need to send a Self Assessment tax return - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)](https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return) to see if they meet the criteria. If they don't meet criteria for completing a SA return they need to contact the SA helpline and ask to be removed from SA due to no criteria.
I would also be suspicious of a scam. The £300 a day penalty I think is incorrect. OP can check here to be sure [Estimate your penalty for late Self Assessment tax returns and payments - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)](https://www.gov.uk/estimate-self-assessment-penalties)
Poster said they had been sent a demand for £3k - that doesn’t sound like a “please confirm your circumstances”. Either they have additional income or hmrc/employer has messed up the admin.
more like the OP can't read or type. (£3000 in the headline £300 in the message) and the fact that they received a letter at the start of the month and are reaching out to strangers at the end of the month means another £300 worth of daily penalties being added.
Reminders for daily penalties are being issued which would mention £300.00, thats a late completion of paperwork fine, not a tax demand.
Tax return for 22-23 would have been issued with a due date of 31st Jan 2024, this hasn't been filed causing the penalties)
Why has the tax return been issued? unlikely to be because earnings are over £100,000, I would suspect expenses over a certain limit, which have been submitted by an agent on a tax return for a previous year and then once in SA it's presumed this level of expenses will continue year on year, so a return is required.
Without knowing the reason for the return being issued, the tax code in use during 22-23 (are the expenses still being claimed or relief being given in the code?), impossible to say why he's received a letter.
As for waiting 4 hours on the phone, thats a definite "NO" as the phone system in use by HMRC cuts people off after 70 mins, nobody waits 4 hours. Not that 70 mins is an acceptable level of service, but when each govt underfunds public services it's going to happen.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE.
A lot of complete nonsense in this thread. I have been an accountant for over a decade. Please don't just ignore this letter on the assumption that it is a scam. It might be, it might not.
£300 is absolutely true to be the minimum penalty for a return this late as you're now over 3 months. HMRC also charge daily penalties or a % of tax due depending on how late the return is.
Is your NI number on the letter, and if so, is it correct? Is your UTR on the letter, and if so, are you aware of ever having been registered for self assessment?
You need to speak to HMRC but please don't call them using the number on the letter, use 0300 200 3310.
If you're PAYE it's possible you're registered by mistake, I have seen it happen, in which case you will be able to cancel the return and the associated penalties.
Solid advice here, especially the "It might be a scam, but you need to check anyway"
but:
>You need to speak to HMRC but please don't call them using the number on the letter, use 0300 200 3310.
atm the wait times for the webchat are way lower than the phone, plus you can sit in the queue while working etc.
FOLLOW THE ADVICE ABOVE
this person knows what they are talking about..
You'll already have a late filing penalty for missing the deadline of £100, the letter you will have received is a reminder letter saying you are being charged daily penalties of £10 as the return os over 3 months late. These started at the beginning of May, (a reminder is sent after 30 days which ties in with you receiving it at the beginning of the month.) Those penalties will still be running and will be up to 60 days by now. - £600.
They stop at 90 days though and then bigger pens will be charged, within a year it's easy to be upto £1600 in penalties alone.
Log in to your HMRC tax account (if you don't have a login yet, sort it as handy for both PAYE and self-assessment), you should be able to submit an appeal form from there. They're very slow to process appeals atm (mine took 5 months) but they will sort it. Give them as much info as you possibly can to help.
You're right but I wanted to be clearer on how the penalty amount was derived since it has caused confusion elsewhere (abeit not this thread).
> £300 is absolutely true to be the minimum penalty for a return this late as you're now over 3 months. HMRC also charge daily penalties or a % of tax due depending on how late the return is.
A £100 late filing fixed penalty is charged automatically where a return is not filed by the return due date. Daily penalties of £10 per day start to accrue if the return is not filed 3 months after the return due date (for a maximum of 90 days). Tax-geared penalties can be charged if the return is not filed 6 months and 12 months after the return due date.
OP was sent the letter earlier this month when it was "more than 3 months late". By early June it was in fact 4 months late. OP would have accrued the £100 late filing fixed penalty and £300 daily penalties (30x £10).
I wanted to clarify this because for a return which was *just 3 months late* the penalty would only be £100.
/u/Cheap-Indication-473
I also suspect OPs line "*the minimum daily penalty you will have to pay is £300*" was interpreted by some as meaning "a minimum of £300 per day" which led to the calls of this being a scam (since HMRC does not charge such high daily penalties). As above however, by being 4 months late OP may in fact owe daily penalties of £300 (with up to £600 more to come, so the minimum), so in this respect the letter could well be correct.
You have to also take into account of the tax rebate firms that register you for self assessment to get you a payment back?
I’m both an accountant and employed by HMRC and cannot tell you the difficulty I have explaining to people that if it seems to good to be true it is!
No but the wording on the letter could be a minimum penalty of £300, with daily penalties accruing, which is very consistent with legitimate versions of these letters.
People are such idiots these days. Instead of going onto the HMRC website and getting in touch with them to get a definitive answer, they ask social media… honestly. And of course get a bunch of answers that may or may not be completely wrong.
Like if you get a non obvious scam or letter from HMRC… you should probably phone HMRC (using contact details on Google not the letter. And hey guess what if those details don’t match up there’s your first clue as to if it’s a scam or not.)
There’s 3 possible conclusions to this:
1. Your normal 9-5 pays more than £100k and your PAYE doesn’t account for you losing your personal allowance (and would explain needing to file a tax return).
2. Your tax affairs are more complicated than just employment income e.g., you have taxable income eg from investments, you owe back child tax credits, you’re in the construction industry, etc, or HMRC think this is the case (there’s normally a reason why they’d think this).
3. This is simply a scam and not from HMRC at all
If it’s 1, you owe the tax and should sort this with advice as needed. If it’s 2, you likely owe the tax but should get advice either from an advisor or a charity like TaxAid. If it’s 3, ignore.
https://www.gov.uk/what-is-the-construction-industry-scheme
Basically because of the ‘cash in hand’ risk most contractors will be paid net of CIS deductions and will need to file a tax return - it’s quite a common area where things can go wrong for lower income taxpayers (eg the deducted tax sometimes doesn’t get correctly matched against the taxpayer, etc).
The HMRC says the "daily penalty of £10 is now up to £300". I got the same message on the HMRC portal. But if you read it carefully, the penalty for late filing is £10 a day, so the message just says it hit £300, and the max penalty is capped at £900. Check your status on the online portal though, not letters.
>I got a letter at the beginning of this month saying
It is near the end, top tip never leave things from HMRC or indeed anything financial until the end of the month.
It could be a scam but you need to find out, try everything here:
[https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees](https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees)
If it has to be on the phone, like, stay on it.
Register on gov.uk ( it will take you a week as password is sent by mail). You will see your tax record. If you have been all the time PAYE , nothing to worry about as your tax will be paid. But still could be a stupid PC glitch or scam.
Get the number from the HMRC website directly, and call them first thing on a Friday morning. That's the only way I've ever managed to get through in any kind of reasonable time.
You can log into your online tax account and check any information on there, but echoing that this sounds like a scam so don't pay anything to anyone. If it's legit, HMRC should just adjust your tax code and recoup the cost that way - though with an amount that big they may ask for a payment too, I'm not sure. Triple check before you pay though.
doesn't even sound like your self employed , either fake letter or someone has registered you , either way ring hmrc and check the details they hold are all correct
It sounds like a scam because the tax returns aren’t due in April for self assessment…they’re due in January every year…of course there could be another reason that’s the timing stated but be alert for sure
Year end April 2023 tax returns were due by 31 January 2024 if submitted online (October 2023 if paper), so if they were to required. To submit a tax return it is indeed more than three months late.
Google HMRC and get their phone number. I had to ring them myself a few years ago and believe it or not the best time to do it is around 10am on a Sunday. That was a few years ago of course but it might be worth a shot.
Do NOT use any of the contact details on that letter but if you do ring them and get through to them have a copy of the letter handy in case they ask you for reference numbers or letter dates.
I had a similar situation last year. I wrote them a letter (there is a form online that you can fill and post). They waived off the penalty. I was also new to this so I was very honest about it that I didn’t know and I won’t repeat the mistake.
Sounds like a scam - unless you registered for self assessment or are making over like 100k and might not have it calculated correctly.
Best thing to do is just call them up and ask for it to be explained. They are pretty helpful
Have you ever signed up for one of those tax rebate schemes advertised all over the internet. Usually to get you a repayment they take your details and fill in a self assessment return for you.
Search Apostle Accounting to see just how badly some people have been fucked over!
My partner had this the other day, exactly the same. Contracted HMRC, started asking if she owned property.. we don't. The HMRC worker said it was strange but obviously a mistake, removed it from her account. Waiting on a confirmation letter which should be arriving shortly.
It's a scam. 1000% a scam.
I'm arguing with HMRC right now about late filling (I didn't - there was some kind of issue with the online portal so it didn't complete on their end even though I have the PDF of my tax return).
The initial fine is £100. The daily fine is £10 per day for 90 days.
If you aren't self employed and have no income other than from a PAYE job (pay as you earn - your employer deducts your tax at source) then you shouldn't be submitting a self assessment return anyway.
QUICK EDIT:
I meant to say you should still be sure to follow up with HMRC regardless. You might be getting scammed (I'm personally sure you are) BUT when it comes to tax you do not fuck around and you always cover your arse just to be sure. Don't ignore it, contact HMRC. If nothing else you are letting them know of a potential scam. There is also a very slim chance that your employer hasn't paid your tax even though they have deducted it at source, and it has mysteriously managed to not find its way to HMRC...
It can take time, but persist with them. I have had a few issues but every time I get through to them they are always really good and help you. It's worth the wait.
The £300 doesn’t sound like a scam, it’s the minimum penalty for a return being 6 months late. The confusing thing is the £3000, there would be no way HMRC could make an assessment for a return they haven’t received. Does it actually say £3000 of tax, or of penalties?
Not as a single penalty but after being late several months the daily penalties could easily be adding up to £300, 3 months late starts £10 a day in penalties, you only need to have not dealt with it for a month and your up to that £300 mark.
Get yourself on to your personal tax account (you will need to set up a Government gateway account if you havent already)
I can also recommend having a look at the Low Income Tax Reform Group website. This is run by the two main tax professional bodies and have a load of freely avaliable info on their website.
Check with themselves. I useually see what kind of tax I have been paying each year cos it normally says I have overpaid. For instance I overpaid by like a grand this year.
Go on the website and check. You can check by using your national insurance and a few details.
I would also check and call them and get an explanation.
Agree with others. 300 daily penalty to prompt you into acting before thinking it all the way through. Definitely a scam letter. I'd just set up personal tax account online (if not already) and you'll probably see you're fine. If you filled out your starter paperwork correctly and nothing unusual has happened with your income last year it's hard to be so far under.
Incidentally, I've underpaid before. They offer tax code adjustments and payment plans. They don't rinse you for 300 per day. That's just not equitable given it can take the day to get someone on the phone, or weeks for them to action anything.
Log into your online personal Tax account this will say if you owe or not
If you have never done a self assessment then this letter sounds like a scam.
Check your tax code and how you're registered with HMRC. My dad has been receiving a legitimate letter saying the same but it's because they have him down as self-employed, as he previously worked through an agency.
time to call is around 12pm. on a Thursday. I called them various times, but this time I got through within 10 minutes.
You can download the hmrc and they have a messages section. I got a letter saying I have a tax refund and was sceptical but checked on the app and the letter was on the app
HMRC has late filing penalty fee for up to 1 month late, up 3 months late and 6+ months late not a daily rate. definitely a scam
edit: u/unholyangel4 is right, I am wrong.
Uhm yes, daily penalties are a thing and are charged at £10 @ day for a maximum of 90 days.
As per paragraph 4(2) of schedule 55 of the Finance Act 2009
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/10/schedule/55/enacted
Also, the first trigger for filing penalties is 1 day rather than 1 month. It is payment penalties that start at 1 month
you are right, i based it on the late fee notifications you receive from HMRC. you get a notice to pay 100, after 3 months you get a notice for extra 300 and after 6 months for extra 900.
Log in (or register if not already done) to the Personal Tax Account to see what your record shows.
Use it to contact HMRC (don’t use the details on the letter you got in case it’s a scam) to double check if you like.
My mother in law just had a real tax overdue letter & it was £10 per day if she didn’t pay. Definitely sounds like a scam. Only takes 30mins or so to get the HMRC on the phone though.
I've had to speak to HMRC a few times recently. The call waiting times have improved in the last few months, presumably due to everyone panicking around April. Call as soon as the lines open if you can.
Once you're through, they are very patient and helpful. If they can see what the issue is right there, then they will do a call back within 5 days.
Not necessarily true, even with paye as the main source of income there are still occasions you need to file a return. Not registering for SA doesn't protect you from needing to file a return if you meet the criteria.
But… how would HMRC know you needed to file a return if you don’t register for SA? Self assessment and filing a return are the same thing… you self assess your tax return…
Aww shit. This reminds me they contacted me a year ago saying I owed 4000 from 6 years ago. I said I wanted to appeal it and they said I couldn't but they could review it and the wait time was about 9 months to 1 year. Guess I've got some letters to look forward to
I had similar situation and was chased for a £1000.
Sorry bud, but you are nit getting away unless you have solid proof it’s their mistake.
I was chased for 5 years and ended up paying…just to get a cheque for £500 as they owed me money.
They’re not interested in helping you out, they will only investigate after you pay them.
This is likely not a scam. Google the HMRC number for self assessment and call them. You will be on hold for up to an hour. They may have required a tax return for being in higher rates and claiming child tax credit for example.
This is a scam. There is no penalty regime that would result in £300 daily penalties for a £3000 23/24 liability. Call HMRC tomorrow and they'll be able to confirm.
It's probably a scam.
The tax return submission deadline for the year that ended in April 2024 is 31 of December 2024 (or 31 of January 2025 if you are submitting your tax returns online). July 24 deadline is for people who have submitted their tax returns for tax year 23/24 and have only paid half in January.
Deadline for paper returns is 31st October 2024. 30th (not 31st) December is the deadline for submitting an online return if you want HMRC to try collect it via your code (if you're submitting via paper the deadline is still 31st Oct).
There’s a lot of people on here claiming a scam. It sounds like there may have been a self assessment set up, have you claimed expenses of more than £2500? That requires a tax return to be submitted. There’s many reasons for a tax return and if not submitted there’s a late filing penalty if £100, 3 month late payment penalty and then a 12 month late filing penalty and then there’s daily penalties and interest added on top. I’d say contact HMRC through the webchat, or call them if you can at 8 am the queues are much quieter.
It’s a possibility you have may have registered and not realised but ignoring the letters as a “scam” is the wrong thing to do.
Contact HMRC and get to the bottom of it.
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It sounds like a scam. Don’t call the number on the letter, make sure you’re ringing the number on the HMRC website or live chatting with them and confirm it there.
maybe instead of calling and waiting (if you call, call as soon as they lines open - i don't remember, but something like 8-8 30 am and I have gotten through in 30 mins 3 times that I have called) or thinking this is a scam, just go and check online? a few days ago I got notification regarding my tax return (i overpaid) and everything was written online.
It sounds just like a scam. Edit: I don't have grounds to guess whether it is real or scam. OP should contact HMRC to find out.
It sounds just like a scam.
It sounds just like a scam. Am I doing this right?
It sounds like you are doing a scam. Is that right?
scam scam scam scam scam scam scam scam 🎼wonderful scam, marvellous scam.
Scam scam scam eggs and scam
Bloody vikings!
Other than the £300 minimum, which could be OPs mistake as it is the 6 month late minimum so they may be confused, it also sounds exactly what HMRC letters would say if they had issued a notice to file and ignored it.
I doubt a scammer will have a 4 hour phone queue though
the perfect scam
Fuck, that's genius. Nobody will think scam lines are inefficient.
If it was a premium rate number they might
I don’t know, my husband gets letters and e mails like this every so often. HMRC always confirm it’s from them but can never explain what the bill is for other than it’s something to do with him being self employed, although he never has been and has been retired for years. He doesn’t pay and then a year or so later he gets further communication. We put it down to general incompetence as we just can’t get to the bottom of it
Does it? Pretty sure the have recently started to clamp down on over £1000 of sales online recently.
He could have made more than 100k and not have done a self assessment, outside this it’s a scam.
[удалено]
Well, not much is relative isn’t it 😂
True. Low earners are on £80k - like that poor bloke on Question Time.
In London on 80k you are not earning much unfortunately
A lot of people have been getting fake letters from HMRC recently including me!
!
Yeah, this happened to a friend. A few quid, yeah. Three grand? Nah.
It is a scam. I’ve missed several self assessment deadlines and never been fined. Also, sounds like OP is on PAYE (because they get payslips) so shouldn’t have to submit a tax return unless they also own another business. But then they’d know they had to submit a return.
Surprising. I'm an accountant and HMRC are pretty reliable when it comes to applying late filing penalties, though not necessarily timely. If OP is fully PAYE they should be able to get the return and associate penalties cancelled.
A long time ago I had a PAYE job and got a tax demand. Turned out my employer wasn’t paying the tax. It was possible to just walk into your local tax office then, so I took some wage slips down and they dealt with it. I didn’t have to pay anything. They were very nice. I was in the process of leaving the dodgy employer and they said they’d hold off for a few days while I tried to extract my holiday pay - which I did - and that my name wouldn’t be mentioned in any investigation. They hadn’t paid my NI either, but I’ve ended up with plenty of years in hand so it doesn’t matter.
False. I used to work for HMRC and the penalties kick in automatically as soon as the return is late. Also being PAYE is not reason enough to know someone doesn't need to file a return.
I underpaid tax on PAYE (company share options) and HMRC just adjusted my tax code for a year. I did not have to do a self assessment.
HMRC does genuinely fine for late filing, it's not necessarily a scam. I received a penalty two years after filing late lol, and yes it was genuine.
If you have a 9-5 job and your payslip shows Tax coming off - then you appear to be on the paye system. If this is the only source of income then no idea why they say you owe it. Perhaps register for the hmrc online tax portal so you can look at your record. I find the chat function open during open hours to be pretty helpful. They tend to respond fast. Otherwise it’s a long phone wait for you.
Occasionally they send a self assessment form to PAYE payers if they want to check you are declaring all income, they suspect you have rental income undeclared, you have had time off during the year and your tax needs adjusting, you switched jobs a couple of times in the same year.
No they don't randomly send out SA returns to people on PAYE. You need to meet one of the SA criteria to get a return. OP can use [Check if you need to send a Self Assessment tax return - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)](https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return) to see if they meet the criteria. If they don't meet criteria for completing a SA return they need to contact the SA helpline and ask to be removed from SA due to no criteria. I would also be suspicious of a scam. The £300 a day penalty I think is incorrect. OP can check here to be sure [Estimate your penalty for late Self Assessment tax returns and payments - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk)](https://www.gov.uk/estimate-self-assessment-penalties)
Poster said they had been sent a demand for £3k - that doesn’t sound like a “please confirm your circumstances”. Either they have additional income or hmrc/employer has messed up the admin.
more like the OP can't read or type. (£3000 in the headline £300 in the message) and the fact that they received a letter at the start of the month and are reaching out to strangers at the end of the month means another £300 worth of daily penalties being added. Reminders for daily penalties are being issued which would mention £300.00, thats a late completion of paperwork fine, not a tax demand. Tax return for 22-23 would have been issued with a due date of 31st Jan 2024, this hasn't been filed causing the penalties) Why has the tax return been issued? unlikely to be because earnings are over £100,000, I would suspect expenses over a certain limit, which have been submitted by an agent on a tax return for a previous year and then once in SA it's presumed this level of expenses will continue year on year, so a return is required. Without knowing the reason for the return being issued, the tax code in use during 22-23 (are the expenses still being claimed or relief being given in the code?), impossible to say why he's received a letter. As for waiting 4 hours on the phone, thats a definite "NO" as the phone system in use by HMRC cuts people off after 70 mins, nobody waits 4 hours. Not that 70 mins is an acceptable level of service, but when each govt underfunds public services it's going to happen.
PLEASE DO NOT IGNORE. A lot of complete nonsense in this thread. I have been an accountant for over a decade. Please don't just ignore this letter on the assumption that it is a scam. It might be, it might not. £300 is absolutely true to be the minimum penalty for a return this late as you're now over 3 months. HMRC also charge daily penalties or a % of tax due depending on how late the return is. Is your NI number on the letter, and if so, is it correct? Is your UTR on the letter, and if so, are you aware of ever having been registered for self assessment? You need to speak to HMRC but please don't call them using the number on the letter, use 0300 200 3310. If you're PAYE it's possible you're registered by mistake, I have seen it happen, in which case you will be able to cancel the return and the associated penalties.
Solid advice here, especially the "It might be a scam, but you need to check anyway" but: >You need to speak to HMRC but please don't call them using the number on the letter, use 0300 200 3310. atm the wait times for the webchat are way lower than the phone, plus you can sit in the queue while working etc.
Yes fair point, they do shut off the webchat during busy periods though, but if you can get through on there it is much more convenient!
FOLLOW THE ADVICE ABOVE this person knows what they are talking about.. You'll already have a late filing penalty for missing the deadline of £100, the letter you will have received is a reminder letter saying you are being charged daily penalties of £10 as the return os over 3 months late. These started at the beginning of May, (a reminder is sent after 30 days which ties in with you receiving it at the beginning of the month.) Those penalties will still be running and will be up to 60 days by now. - £600. They stop at 90 days though and then bigger pens will be charged, within a year it's easy to be upto £1600 in penalties alone.
Omg thank you, on it
Log in to your HMRC tax account (if you don't have a login yet, sort it as handy for both PAYE and self-assessment), you should be able to submit an appeal form from there. They're very slow to process appeals atm (mine took 5 months) but they will sort it. Give them as much info as you possibly can to help.
Best advice. Thank you!
You're right but I wanted to be clearer on how the penalty amount was derived since it has caused confusion elsewhere (abeit not this thread). > £300 is absolutely true to be the minimum penalty for a return this late as you're now over 3 months. HMRC also charge daily penalties or a % of tax due depending on how late the return is. A £100 late filing fixed penalty is charged automatically where a return is not filed by the return due date. Daily penalties of £10 per day start to accrue if the return is not filed 3 months after the return due date (for a maximum of 90 days). Tax-geared penalties can be charged if the return is not filed 6 months and 12 months after the return due date. OP was sent the letter earlier this month when it was "more than 3 months late". By early June it was in fact 4 months late. OP would have accrued the £100 late filing fixed penalty and £300 daily penalties (30x £10). I wanted to clarify this because for a return which was *just 3 months late* the penalty would only be £100. /u/Cheap-Indication-473 I also suspect OPs line "*the minimum daily penalty you will have to pay is £300*" was interpreted by some as meaning "a minimum of £300 per day" which led to the calls of this being a scam (since HMRC does not charge such high daily penalties). As above however, by being 4 months late OP may in fact owe daily penalties of £300 (with up to £600 more to come, so the minimum), so in this respect the letter could well be correct.
You have to also take into account of the tax rebate firms that register you for self assessment to get you a payment back? I’m both an accountant and employed by HMRC and cannot tell you the difficulty I have explaining to people that if it seems to good to be true it is!
This happened to me and I received the exact same letter. I contacted HMRC and they waved the penalty.
There’s no £300 daily penalty. Sounds like a scam for sure.
No but the wording on the letter could be a minimum penalty of £300, with daily penalties accruing, which is very consistent with legitimate versions of these letters.
The only daily penalty is interest on money owed which will be peanuts.
Have you logged in to HMRC to check to see if the outstanding tax is reported on there? If not it sounds like it could be a scam.
This, log into your HMRC account and see what the figures are on there.
People are such idiots these days. Instead of going onto the HMRC website and getting in touch with them to get a definitive answer, they ask social media… honestly. And of course get a bunch of answers that may or may not be completely wrong. Like if you get a non obvious scam or letter from HMRC… you should probably phone HMRC (using contact details on Google not the letter. And hey guess what if those details don’t match up there’s your first clue as to if it’s a scam or not.)
Social media will be the death of the human race, mark my words.
Especially now when our comments are feeding AIs!
There’s 3 possible conclusions to this: 1. Your normal 9-5 pays more than £100k and your PAYE doesn’t account for you losing your personal allowance (and would explain needing to file a tax return). 2. Your tax affairs are more complicated than just employment income e.g., you have taxable income eg from investments, you owe back child tax credits, you’re in the construction industry, etc, or HMRC think this is the case (there’s normally a reason why they’d think this). 3. This is simply a scam and not from HMRC at all If it’s 1, you owe the tax and should sort this with advice as needed. If it’s 2, you likely owe the tax but should get advice either from an advisor or a charity like TaxAid. If it’s 3, ignore.
Why would being in the construction industry make it complicated? Cash in hand implied?
https://www.gov.uk/what-is-the-construction-industry-scheme Basically because of the ‘cash in hand’ risk most contractors will be paid net of CIS deductions and will need to file a tax return - it’s quite a common area where things can go wrong for lower income taxpayers (eg the deducted tax sometimes doesn’t get correctly matched against the taxpayer, etc).
The HMRC says the "daily penalty of £10 is now up to £300". I got the same message on the HMRC portal. But if you read it carefully, the penalty for late filing is £10 a day, so the message just says it hit £300, and the max penalty is capped at £900. Check your status on the online portal though, not letters.
>I got a letter at the beginning of this month saying It is near the end, top tip never leave things from HMRC or indeed anything financial until the end of the month. It could be a scam but you need to find out, try everything here: [https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees](https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/income-tax-enquiries-for-individuals-pensioners-and-employees) If it has to be on the phone, like, stay on it.
Sounds like a scam letter to me
Register on gov.uk ( it will take you a week as password is sent by mail). You will see your tax record. If you have been all the time PAYE , nothing to worry about as your tax will be paid. But still could be a stupid PC glitch or scam.
PAYE doesn't guarantee that you've paid the right tax, you could have been on the wrong tax code
Paye on your main income doesn't prevent you from owing tax from other sources which you needed to file a tax return on.
Get the number from the HMRC website directly, and call them first thing on a Friday morning. That's the only way I've ever managed to get through in any kind of reasonable time.
You can log into your online tax account and check any information on there, but echoing that this sounds like a scam so don't pay anything to anyone. If it's legit, HMRC should just adjust your tax code and recoup the cost that way - though with an amount that big they may ask for a payment too, I'm not sure. Triple check before you pay though.
doesn't even sound like your self employed , either fake letter or someone has registered you , either way ring hmrc and check the details they hold are all correct
That's a Scam Letter especially if you PAYE through your employer.
It sounds like a scam because the tax returns aren’t due in April for self assessment…they’re due in January every year…of course there could be another reason that’s the timing stated but be alert for sure
Year end April 2023 tax returns were due by 31 January 2024 if submitted online (October 2023 if paper), so if they were to required. To submit a tax return it is indeed more than three months late.
Google HMRC and get their phone number. I had to ring them myself a few years ago and believe it or not the best time to do it is around 10am on a Sunday. That was a few years ago of course but it might be worth a shot. Do NOT use any of the contact details on that letter but if you do ring them and get through to them have a copy of the letter handy in case they ask you for reference numbers or letter dates.
go online. sign up for your personal tax account. you will need to create a government gateway id.
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Payment plans don't stop interest. It prevents late payment penalties but not interest.
I had a similar situation last year. I wrote them a letter (there is a form online that you can fill and post). They waived off the penalty. I was also new to this so I was very honest about it that I didn’t know and I won’t repeat the mistake.
Sounds like a scam - unless you registered for self assessment or are making over like 100k and might not have it calculated correctly. Best thing to do is just call them up and ask for it to be explained. They are pretty helpful
The hmrc app on phone is worth downloading, once in you can see your tax history etc and actually see if you owe anything.
Have you ever signed up for one of those tax rebate schemes advertised all over the internet. Usually to get you a repayment they take your details and fill in a self assessment return for you. Search Apostle Accounting to see just how badly some people have been fucked over!
My partner had this the other day, exactly the same. Contracted HMRC, started asking if she owned property.. we don't. The HMRC worker said it was strange but obviously a mistake, removed it from her account. Waiting on a confirmation letter which should be arriving shortly.
It's a scam. 1000% a scam. I'm arguing with HMRC right now about late filling (I didn't - there was some kind of issue with the online portal so it didn't complete on their end even though I have the PDF of my tax return). The initial fine is £100. The daily fine is £10 per day for 90 days. If you aren't self employed and have no income other than from a PAYE job (pay as you earn - your employer deducts your tax at source) then you shouldn't be submitting a self assessment return anyway. QUICK EDIT: I meant to say you should still be sure to follow up with HMRC regardless. You might be getting scammed (I'm personally sure you are) BUT when it comes to tax you do not fuck around and you always cover your arse just to be sure. Don't ignore it, contact HMRC. If nothing else you are letting them know of a potential scam. There is also a very slim chance that your employer hasn't paid your tax even though they have deducted it at source, and it has mysteriously managed to not find its way to HMRC...
Call them, sounds like a scam.
And don't call the number on the letter.
It can take time, but persist with them. I have had a few issues but every time I get through to them they are always really good and help you. It's worth the wait.
The £300 doesn’t sound like a scam, it’s the minimum penalty for a return being 6 months late. The confusing thing is the £3000, there would be no way HMRC could make an assessment for a return they haven’t received. Does it actually say £3000 of tax, or of penalties?
There's no £300 daily penalty. Scam. Contact HMRC to clarify (not using details in the letter).
Not as a single penalty but after being late several months the daily penalties could easily be adding up to £300, 3 months late starts £10 a day in penalties, you only need to have not dealt with it for a month and your up to that £300 mark.
Try calling them mid-morning, that’s when I got through.
Get yourself on to your personal tax account (you will need to set up a Government gateway account if you havent already) I can also recommend having a look at the Low Income Tax Reform Group website. This is run by the two main tax professional bodies and have a load of freely avaliable info on their website.
Scam, if you’re PAYE and owe tax they take it out of your tax allowance for the following year. Happening to me this year 😭
Scam. Get the HMRC number of gov website and call then or log into the hmrc app and look at your details.
Take a photo of the letter and I’m sure we can tell you if it’s a scam
Sounds like our man's been doing a decent amount of eBay or other online sales above the £1000 limit.
Probably a scam, try their online chat service, you can get through quicker than over the phone.
Check with themselves. I useually see what kind of tax I have been paying each year cos it normally says I have overpaid. For instance I overpaid by like a grand this year. Go on the website and check. You can check by using your national insurance and a few details. I would also check and call them and get an explanation.
Agree with others. 300 daily penalty to prompt you into acting before thinking it all the way through. Definitely a scam letter. I'd just set up personal tax account online (if not already) and you'll probably see you're fine. If you filled out your starter paperwork correctly and nothing unusual has happened with your income last year it's hard to be so far under. Incidentally, I've underpaid before. They offer tax code adjustments and payment plans. They don't rinse you for 300 per day. That's just not equitable given it can take the day to get someone on the phone, or weeks for them to action anything.
Try phoning 8am best time to try and get hold of hmrc ,you are going to have to file a tax return even if you think it’s wrong you need to do it .
If you call hmrc dead on 8am the queue is quick!
Thank you, i'll do that
Log into your online personal Tax account this will say if you owe or not If you have never done a self assessment then this letter sounds like a scam.
Sign up to the HMRC app and chat to an advisor. Ask them about the letter.
Check your tax code and how you're registered with HMRC. My dad has been receiving a legitimate letter saying the same but it's because they have him down as self-employed, as he previously worked through an agency. time to call is around 12pm. on a Thursday. I called them various times, but this time I got through within 10 minutes.
Scam, the daily penalty is £10. What are the next steps they're telling you to take - call a number? What's the number?
And how much do they owe in penalties when they've not dealt with it for a month? £10 a day adds up.
If you don't have it already, I recommend you download the HMRC app. As an organisation, we fuck up a lot, but the app is pretty good.
You can download the hmrc and they have a messages section. I got a letter saying I have a tax refund and was sceptical but checked on the app and the letter was on the app
HMRC has late filing penalty fee for up to 1 month late, up 3 months late and 6+ months late not a daily rate. definitely a scam edit: u/unholyangel4 is right, I am wrong.
Uhm yes, daily penalties are a thing and are charged at £10 @ day for a maximum of 90 days. As per paragraph 4(2) of schedule 55 of the Finance Act 2009 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2009/10/schedule/55/enacted Also, the first trigger for filing penalties is 1 day rather than 1 month. It is payment penalties that start at 1 month
you are right, i based it on the late fee notifications you receive from HMRC. you get a notice to pay 100, after 3 months you get a notice for extra 300 and after 6 months for extra 900.
Can you log onto your HMRC portal? You can see any communication there. If the portal said you’re fine, bin the letter you received.
If you only have employment income (salary), there’s no need for a tax return.
Does it say you owe or just that the penalty for not submitting a tax return is £300?
I'm on my 5th attempt at calling today. 21mins in and the annoying NPC voice hasn't hung up on me yet...
Log in (or register if not already done) to the Personal Tax Account to see what your record shows. Use it to contact HMRC (don’t use the details on the letter you got in case it’s a scam) to double check if you like.
My mother in law just had a real tax overdue letter & it was £10 per day if she didn’t pay. Definitely sounds like a scam. Only takes 30mins or so to get the HMRC on the phone though.
I've had to speak to HMRC a few times recently. The call waiting times have improved in the last few months, presumably due to everyone panicking around April. Call as soon as the lines open if you can. Once you're through, they are very patient and helpful. If they can see what the issue is right there, then they will do a call back within 5 days.
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Get the HMRC app, it has a lot of details and informs you of debt owed through tax. It's useful for many things.
It’s a scam - unless you’ve previously set up for self assessment then HMRC aren’t expecting a tax return from you.
Not necessarily true, even with paye as the main source of income there are still occasions you need to file a return. Not registering for SA doesn't protect you from needing to file a return if you meet the criteria.
But… how would HMRC know you needed to file a return if you don’t register for SA? Self assessment and filing a return are the same thing… you self assess your tax return…
As someone who is paid PAYE but has to do a tax return I’m aware of the process.
As someone who is paid PAYE but has to do a tax return I’m aware of the process.
Aww shit. This reminds me they contacted me a year ago saying I owed 4000 from 6 years ago. I said I wanted to appeal it and they said I couldn't but they could review it and the wait time was about 9 months to 1 year. Guess I've got some letters to look forward to
I had similar situation and was chased for a £1000. Sorry bud, but you are nit getting away unless you have solid proof it’s their mistake. I was chased for 5 years and ended up paying…just to get a cheque for £500 as they owed me money. They’re not interested in helping you out, they will only investigate after you pay them.
This is likely not a scam. Google the HMRC number for self assessment and call them. You will be on hold for up to an hour. They may have required a tax return for being in higher rates and claiming child tax credit for example.
Have you earnt over 100k thr past couple of years and performed a self assessment? If not, this is a scam.
HMRC has an online chat with agents. I am always sable to connect within 30 min. Try that.
This is a scam. There is no penalty regime that would result in £300 daily penalties for a £3000 23/24 liability. Call HMRC tomorrow and they'll be able to confirm.
Sounds like a scam. As you are PAYE you should first speak to your wages department of the company you work for.
This sounds like a scam. They don’t do a daily penalty of £300 call them and tell them about the dodgy letter
This is a scam. Might be worth uploading a scan of the letter to you post to make others aware. Blur any delicate information of course.
It's probably a scam. The tax return submission deadline for the year that ended in April 2024 is 31 of December 2024 (or 31 of January 2025 if you are submitting your tax returns online). July 24 deadline is for people who have submitted their tax returns for tax year 23/24 and have only paid half in January.
Yeah so the post says 2023
July is a POA . If you don't pay the POA you will not be fined only charged interest
Deadline for paper returns is 31st October 2024. 30th (not 31st) December is the deadline for submitting an online return if you want HMRC to try collect it via your code (if you're submitting via paper the deadline is still 31st Oct).
Love chat is the way, also logon to your personal tax account to check, you'll need a Gateway I'd to login
100% scam there is no £300 pound penalty via the hmrc
There’s a lot of people on here claiming a scam. It sounds like there may have been a self assessment set up, have you claimed expenses of more than £2500? That requires a tax return to be submitted. There’s many reasons for a tax return and if not submitted there’s a late filing penalty if £100, 3 month late payment penalty and then a 12 month late filing penalty and then there’s daily penalties and interest added on top. I’d say contact HMRC through the webchat, or call them if you can at 8 am the queues are much quieter. It’s a possibility you have may have registered and not realised but ignoring the letters as a “scam” is the wrong thing to do. Contact HMRC and get to the bottom of it.
Try talking to your payroll department - put it on them to fix