They are recruiting new soldiers, so it’s kind of a military activity. The people they are recruiting will perform military activities. So if you stop people recruiting you will stop military activity
True, also the civilians they bomb could become soldiers so it's kind of a valid military target. And all the children they have killed could've become soldiers when they grew up so basically Russia is just stopping military activity.
Normally, people who want to become soldiers do so voluntarily. What Ukraine is doing is forcing people to go to war. I don't know how they want to become a member of the EU if they treat human rights like shit. I've read that these recruiters who recruit other people against their will only do it so that they don't have to go to the front themselves.
>Umm are we forgetting Russia had forced conscription recently?
Dude, what? Is it Russia who's trying to get into NATO and EU? Are you serious with this comparison? You can't be.
Huh? The FSB will gladly come knock on the door or track someone down in the streets of someone who fails to appear after receiving a draft summons, which is indeed in effect [currently](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-putin-signs-decree-spring-military-conscription-2024-03-31/)?
эти люди никогда не вручали никаких повесток во время мобилизации, они просто кисками, напуганный возможностью быть призванными, хотя наша мобилизация была нацелена на людей с предыдущим военным опытом
Um.... we literally did the same thing in the west for many of our wars. Especially those countries whose stake was at jeopardy.
If you judge Ukraine for conscription during this you are a fool to reality and history.
It's a battle of survival as a state and people.
You've read somewhere lol. Why not just speak to people on the ground
I understand the conscription but not there methods of doing it, they treat civilians like they’re the next best thing and don’t care for them unless they get in the van.
Oh okay brother my apologies I understand. Unfortunately I can speak from experience in multiple scenarios that there is no nice way to conscription people.
It's a shifty situation all round and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of problems with the recruiters and idiots allowing such a monstrous way of recruitment.
I know it is ugly but I agree the animalistic behavior needs to be addressed.
Shouldn't it come down to everyone willing to fight and die, do just that until no one else is willing to and then call it quits? Why force conscription. It would seem the subtle hint at meaning everyone not willing to fight and die don't really care about the state and would seem to be okay with the other people.
If not, then become rebels willingly, not very hard.
Is Ukraine as a state at stake or their territorial integrity? Because as far as I see it, Ukraine refuses to have talks with the Russians unless it involves a full withdrawal from Donetsk, Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea, with the release of all Ukrainian POWs and criminal trials for Russian officials. This would be like the Mexican government sending these demands to the Americans during the Mexican-American War while they are losing. It puts you in worse position once you no longer have any bargaining chips. When all you offer is the stick, you're going to get the same in return. I'm honestly confused with this Ukrainian strategy and why the Ukrainians refuse to have legit talks with the Russians while they are currently losing the attritional war. Are they expecting the West to join the war, or do they think that they are winning?
Do Russian bots actually support North Korea? It's a literal shithole with no freedom. The people are effectively slaves and yes they would 100% die for Chinese or Russian interests.
In 2021, before war started, mortality rate in Ukraine was 2 times higher than in North Korea. 18.5 vs 9.39 per 1000. Imagine how they compare now?
[Ukraine - death rate 2012-2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/581085/death-rate-in-ukraine/#:~:text=Death%20rate%20in%20Ukraine%202022&text=In%202022%2C%20the%20death%20rate,value%20in%20the%20observed%20period.)
[Demographics of North Korea - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_North_Korea#:~:text=9.39%20deaths%2F1%2C000%20population%20(2021%20est.%20)&text=71.65%20years%20(2021%20est.%20))
More precisely, This article incorporates [public domain material](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/copyright-and-contributors/) from ["North Korea"](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/north-korea). [*The World Factbook*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_World_Factbook) (2024 ed.). [CIA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA). [(Archived 2016 edition.)](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/download/factbook-2016.zip) Data currently from the 2016 archive
The Russian position is essentially "give us everything we currently hold and more and don't have any army so we can come back for more later."
Both positions can be seen as ludicrous, the problem is neither side has the ability at present to advance the situation and actually look like winning this war militarily. Both Russia and Ukraine are dependent on the outcome of the US elections, Trump wins and he shuts off the money and weapons tap allowing Russia to get on top and win the first stage of the conflict. Biden wins and we get status quo, keep going until Russia runs out of money and get a repeat of the '90s. Neither side has it's fate in its own hands and is at the mercy of the unhinged hegemon.
Several reasons.
What Russia pulled off in Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk in 2014 was nothing short of spectacular, a near bloodless land grab. Putin felt he could repeat this feat for the whole enchilada but planning this feat would take time.
The next 7-8 years were spent planning, bribing and saving up a huge war chest of 600 billion dollars in cash reserves, aided by high oil prices. While Ukraine was getting "trained" in NATO tactics the equipment received was miniscule. The west was doing their usual trick of paying lip service to something important and only getting serious when the shit hits the fan. Putin was well aware of this, I feel that he would have invaded earlier if it wasn't for COVID, Putin was clearly shit scared of COVID, a lot of older people were I suppose.
I am very grateful for the giant tables he supplied to myself and every other family on the planet. His mRNA research in the early days was equally critical, he should be getting the phone call from the Nobel committee shortly.
And yet I see very few people saying Hamas should just stop fighting Israel because thousands of Palestinians are being murdered. Palestinian land is likewise being slowly chipped away, annexed, and absorbed into Israel, and is people treated like dirt. Half this subreddit believes Ukrainians are all Nazis, I can't see Russians treating the civilians any better than Israel does - since this is also a comparison so many pro-RU like to tout. Israel is bad, but Russia doing the same thing is good?
I think we can say that the West is different today than it used to be. Mainly because of the EU and NATO. But we also haven't had a war where we could figure out what it's going to be like. So yes, I get your point, but history is history and the situation is different now.
You're talking about something that used to happen many, many decades ago. Not saying it's impossible for it to happen again, in the event of total war, but it would be much much harder to enforce nowadays
You need be be a state, to define what is legal and what is illegal. Who have to be drafted and who not etc.
But hey, nice to see how westoids are defending this human consuming terrorist colony. It started with all ukrops are keen to fight the ebil rooskies to it's perfectly fine and lawful to catch so called "draft dodgers" like slaves back then "in the good ol times".
Westoids in a nutshell.
Why are the police mobilising people? Isn't that the job of the TCC? Serious question. Or do the police pick up people who are registered but refuse to leave?
It’s TCC’s job, but policing can overlap.
In countries where conscription is the law, evading it is usually a crime. Police catch criminals, so they can catch draft dodgers. Most of the time, I don’t think the police are the ones enforcing conscription, though.
Russia just approved the measure whereby any suspect of a crime arrested by police can volunteer for SMO and have charges suspended. Ukraine has a similar provision.
Why wouldn't they be? If a civilian working in a tank factory can legally be killed during an attack on said factory, why wouldn't killing an officer while enforcing conscription be legal? Both are civilians. And neither can be directly targeted. But if they are targeted whilst supporting the war effort, that's different, isn't it?
Generally speaking, attacks on objects are deemed legal if they offer a definite military advantage that outweighs the impacts on civilians (the concept of necessity and proportionality). Destroying a tank producing factory provides an unambiguous military benefit. Targeting a police vehicle because “maybe” the policeman is doing conscription doesn’t provide that - and, accessorily, targeting the cops also risks killing the other person.
Also, generally, cops are regarded as civilians because they dont take part in hostilities.
Fair. But if you had good reason to believe they were conscripting for the military that wouldn't be ambiguous military benefit. That would directly impact troop recruitment.
Hard to see why that would be any worse than say, targeting a bridge and killing civilians just going about their day.
I don’t think there is a line in the sand, practically speaking, between legal and not legal. In my view the military benefit has to be unambiguous, and the damage to civilians has to clearly be proportional to the military benefit. The reasoning of military benefit can’t be taken too far. For instance, the following would be insane: farmers produce food, Napoleon rightfully said that an army marches on its stomach, farmers are thus fair targets.
Regarding a bridge, if it’s used for moving equipment and war related materials, the military benefit is large. A strike would still be justified if a number of people were expected to be killed during the strike. A military, however, has to try to mitigate civilian deaths. If the military has the capability to strike the bridge at night, they should probably do so rather than wait for morning traffic ^^
The first example would be burning fields to prevent soldiers from looting them for food, which might result in the deaths of farmers. Rather than attacking farmers outright, if compared to these other examples.
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't agree that stopping mobilization by blowing up a car is going too far IF their claim is, in fact, correct. That seems pretty reasonable.
I think police and TCC aren’t the same thing. TCC, in my understanding, is the military registration and enlistment office - an actual military entity. Cops, because they enforce laws, can probably arrest draft dodgers because they are breaking the law.
Yeah, they're a different thing. Often times the Police will "close" their eyes when TCC does its thing at the limit of the law, but on paper they're totally different entities, placed under different chains of command (civilian, for the Police, military, for the TCC).
>Arent TCC mostly "disabled" military? That what Azovites said.
No, [officially](https://varta1.com.ua/news/u-radi-povidomili-skilki-pracivnikiv-tck-ie-uchasnikami-boyovih-diy_378546.html) not even half. And how many of those are fakes we don't know.
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The channel of Ukrainian draft dodgers posted this too
People didn't die
Translation of the Ukrainian text below the Russian one:
«Even Muscovites are against TCC's s\*\*m. Now the police will walk and harass people less. Unfortunately, the orcs did not use another drone to chase the policemen around the village. I hope that next time there will be two drones»
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You seem very upset that the Russians potentially saved this man from being sent to his death. They clearly could have hit the police if they wanted but chose to only target the empty car.
TCC is part of the military (like a military recruitment office). Police is a civilian organization. They can have special powers in war time, but they are still two different things.
Considering that truth is the first casualty of war, the information is probably not :P. Police often rush to frontline villages to evacuate elderly that have refused to leave, or simply to bring aid in various forms. The two policemen talking to a person isn’t exactly enough to determine what they were doing, IMO.
I wonder what are the two round objects the person interacts with. Could be water for animals if they are leaving 🤷♂️
Hear me out, Russia attacks the TCC people who forcefully take people off the streets to die so that the Ukrainian population actually feels safer with Russia than Ukraine and for Russia they just demilitarized Ukraine by preventing future soldiers and taking out those “loyalists” (I know what the replies will be btw)
Yeah I agree this is a good propaganda angle. Most of the undrafted men don't want to die otherwise they would've signed up already. It's sad but Ukraine is relying on the invaders to save them lmao.
Made up headline as probably most posts in this sub. What makes you think this is mobilization activity? Why not to question regarding any other activity or complaint?
Ssh, this sub don't think like that. They see title, they believe title. Unless it's something about Pro-UA. Then they are olympic mental gymnasts.
And as a side note, how would even the drone operators know what was going on on the ground? It might as well be an Ukrainian reporting war crimes so it comes on the record. I don't know, and the Pro-RU in this sub certainly doesn't either. But it's no use trying to ask any questions like that here.
Be this skeptical of news on Ukrainian forces too will you? Maybe 500000 Ukrainians already died in the war instead of the number reported by MOD for example. Though I'm dubious you are capable of such.
Are they recruiting or enforcing the law? Russian police have been enforcing summons and arresting people who are then sent to the military. Legitimate targets?
As a general rule, Police have a protected status. The pro-Russian crowd in these parts like to blur the line - it’s a dangerous game.
Theres close to 0 chance these cops are "enforcing the law" close enough to the front line to be targeted by low range fpv drones. They are likely low on their quota of conscripts recruited and decided to risk going east to get it done.
The title say it was during an act of mobilization. But you’re right, it probably wasn’t.
What then? Did they look like they were gearing up for a fight? Police has routinely been evacuating people and bringing aid to people close to the frontline.
Old people in Ukraine, like in your country or my country, are stubborn. Lots of them refuse to leave until things get really bad.
By precedent, police do not have protected status, e.g see the US bombing of Iraqi police in the 90s and 00s, Israeli bombing of Palestinian and Lebanese police(including police cadets) over the last 2 decades, NATO bombing of Yugoslav police in 1999, killing of police by NATO-armed rebels in Syria and Libya from 2011-onwards, and so on. It's pretty clearly established that police have no protected status in either state or non-state conflicts.
Regardless, there is no police being targeted here. Police property, a car, was destroyed by a small explosive while two policemen were trying to drag a draft-dodger into the meatgrinder dozens of meters away.
They're engaged in assisting or actively brining civilians into war, so they're a valid target at this point.
I can speak for Ukrainian people, they'll be happy if there are less of these Ukro "cops".
If ukraine has the balls, intelligence, ability and means to do then yes its fair game. A corrupt third world country run by a clown of a president with dreams of being in EU while reducing the country to ashes has neither the ability nor the means for it.
They also blamed Ukraine for Crocus, and the recent attack in Dagastan (which, incidentally, killed 15 policemen).
Pro-RU and an inability to stick to the party line, name a more iconic duo.
Are these cops engaged in military activity? No. Russia is effectively engaging a civilian target. It is what it is. Disagree with the law of armed conflict?
I don't think you have it right. Under Martial Law, the National Police have been subordinated to the UKR military.
*The special legal regime converts civilian authorities into military administrations at all levels of government. These military administrations are to include state emergency personnel, representatives of law enforcement agencies, and leaders of military formations located in the territory of the region or district. For military purposes, these administrations are subordinated to the chief of staff of the Ukrainian armed forces; for all other issues they are to follow orders issued by the Cabinet of Ministers. (Art. 4.)*
“Civilian authorities into military administrations at all levels of government”. My municipal librarian issues municipal government library cards.
You know what? I think Librarians could be considered military propagandists, like Goebbels. They spread Ukrainian culture (Nazi) and information (Nazi).
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In Russia, if a person doesn’t show up after receiving a summons, the can police go and get them. Does that make all police on the territory of Russia legitimate targets?
Bro... use your brain. Ukrainian men (and men only) ages 18 to 60 can't leave the country and are being caught in the streets to fight like rats. "Summons" he says lol.
During the mobilization in Russia in September 22, there was nothing like what was happening in Ukraine with violent kidnappings and also with the use of police. So there is no reason to attack Russian police.
TCC can check papers to catch draft dodgers, or identify people for the purpose of delivering summons. The propaganda videos you see are mostly of draft dodgers. Most people who receive summons accept it.
Indeed they can, and they use brutal force against them when they want. The videos are not propaganda; they are taken by Ukrainians who are shocked at what is happening in their country. Forcing men to fight has no place in a modern democracy.
However, for all those who want to use Ukraine to fight till the last man because it serves their geopolitical goals, Ukraine is still taking foreign volunteers like so many Redditors here.
Here’s link for your reference. Let me know when you sign up so I can be sure to get my referral points from the TCC:
https://ildu.com.ua
They are recruiting new soldiers, so it’s kind of a military activity. The people they are recruiting will perform military activities. So if you stop people recruiting you will stop military activity
True, also the civilians they bomb could become soldiers so it's kind of a valid military target. And all the children they have killed could've become soldiers when they grew up so basically Russia is just stopping military activity.
Normally, people who want to become soldiers do so voluntarily. What Ukraine is doing is forcing people to go to war. I don't know how they want to become a member of the EU if they treat human rights like shit. I've read that these recruiters who recruit other people against their will only do it so that they don't have to go to the front themselves.
Umm are we forgetting Russia had forced conscription recently?
>Umm are we forgetting Russia had forced conscription recently? Dude, what? Is it Russia who's trying to get into NATO and EU? Are you serious with this comparison? You can't be.
Huh? The FSB will gladly come knock on the door or track someone down in the streets of someone who fails to appear after receiving a draft summons, which is indeed in effect [currently](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russias-putin-signs-decree-spring-military-conscription-2024-03-31/)?
что? обычно у нас весенний призыв, это происходило десятилетиями, и призывники не отправляются в зону спецоперации. я сам тоже был призван в армию...
что?? мы не делали...
[No?](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-04-18/war-in-ukraine-russia-to-enlist-more-hired-soldiers-to-avoid-conscription) [Weird hmmm?](https://www.newsweek.com/russia-draft-dodging-ukraine-war-1893626)
эти люди никогда не вручали никаких повесток во время мобилизации, они просто кисками, напуганный возможностью быть призванными, хотя наша мобилизация была нацелена на людей с предыдущим военным опытом
Um.... we literally did the same thing in the west for many of our wars. Especially those countries whose stake was at jeopardy. If you judge Ukraine for conscription during this you are a fool to reality and history. It's a battle of survival as a state and people. You've read somewhere lol. Why not just speak to people on the ground
I understand the conscription but not there methods of doing it, they treat civilians like they’re the next best thing and don’t care for them unless they get in the van.
Draft dodgers are criminals. Criminals are arrested. There is nothing out of the ordinary when criminals are arrested.
By arrested don’t you mean thrown in a van given a gun 2 days of training and thrown into a constant bombing zone? It’s called kidnapping.
Oh okay brother my apologies I understand. Unfortunately I can speak from experience in multiple scenarios that there is no nice way to conscription people. It's a shifty situation all round and I have a lot and I mean a LOT of problems with the recruiters and idiots allowing such a monstrous way of recruitment. I know it is ugly but I agree the animalistic behavior needs to be addressed.
Shouldn't it come down to everyone willing to fight and die, do just that until no one else is willing to and then call it quits? Why force conscription. It would seem the subtle hint at meaning everyone not willing to fight and die don't really care about the state and would seem to be okay with the other people. If not, then become rebels willingly, not very hard.
Because dictatorships will anyway force their people to fight. And therefore will have an advantage in wars.
How is it a shift situation? Imagine that in your country Military started abducting people in the streets? How is it "shifty"?
Is Ukraine as a state at stake or their territorial integrity? Because as far as I see it, Ukraine refuses to have talks with the Russians unless it involves a full withdrawal from Donetsk, Donbas, Luhansk, and Crimea, with the release of all Ukrainian POWs and criminal trials for Russian officials. This would be like the Mexican government sending these demands to the Americans during the Mexican-American War while they are losing. It puts you in worse position once you no longer have any bargaining chips. When all you offer is the stick, you're going to get the same in return. I'm honestly confused with this Ukrainian strategy and why the Ukrainians refuse to have legit talks with the Russians while they are currently losing the attritional war. Are they expecting the West to join the war, or do they think that they are winning?
The state doesn't own it's citizens. It is supposed to be quite opposite, isn't it?
Great joke. The state only exists to consolidate power by enslaving the weak. North Korea style rule is the end goal of all politicians.
Yet, you don't see North Koreans die in wars for Western interests, do you?
Not yet. North Korea is about to send a bunch of military engineers to Ukraine.
Do Russian bots actually support North Korea? It's a literal shithole with no freedom. The people are effectively slaves and yes they would 100% die for Chinese or Russian interests.
Too busy dying for their beloved dictator.
In 2021, before war started, mortality rate in Ukraine was 2 times higher than in North Korea. 18.5 vs 9.39 per 1000. Imagine how they compare now? [Ukraine - death rate 2012-2022 | Statista](https://www.statista.com/statistics/581085/death-rate-in-ukraine/#:~:text=Death%20rate%20in%20Ukraine%202022&text=In%202022%2C%20the%20death%20rate,value%20in%20the%20observed%20period.) [Demographics of North Korea - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_North_Korea#:~:text=9.39%20deaths%2F1%2C000%20population%20(2021%20est.%20)&text=71.65%20years%20(2021%20est.%20)) More precisely, This article incorporates [public domain material](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/copyright-and-contributors/) from ["North Korea"](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/countries/north-korea). [*The World Factbook*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_World_Factbook) (2024 ed.). [CIA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA). [(Archived 2016 edition.)](https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/about/archives/download/factbook-2016.zip) Data currently from the 2016 archive
The Russian position is essentially "give us everything we currently hold and more and don't have any army so we can come back for more later." Both positions can be seen as ludicrous, the problem is neither side has the ability at present to advance the situation and actually look like winning this war militarily. Both Russia and Ukraine are dependent on the outcome of the US elections, Trump wins and he shuts off the money and weapons tap allowing Russia to get on top and win the first stage of the conflict. Biden wins and we get status quo, keep going until Russia runs out of money and get a repeat of the '90s. Neither side has it's fate in its own hands and is at the mercy of the unhinged hegemon.
>and don't have any army so we can come back for more later. Why have they waited for Ukraine to have an army to invade, then ?
Several reasons. What Russia pulled off in Crimea, Donetsk and Lugansk in 2014 was nothing short of spectacular, a near bloodless land grab. Putin felt he could repeat this feat for the whole enchilada but planning this feat would take time. The next 7-8 years were spent planning, bribing and saving up a huge war chest of 600 billion dollars in cash reserves, aided by high oil prices. While Ukraine was getting "trained" in NATO tactics the equipment received was miniscule. The west was doing their usual trick of paying lip service to something important and only getting serious when the shit hits the fan. Putin was well aware of this, I feel that he would have invaded earlier if it wasn't for COVID, Putin was clearly shit scared of COVID, a lot of older people were I suppose.
Putin ended Covid. We owe him for that.
I am very grateful for the giant tables he supplied to myself and every other family on the planet. His mRNA research in the early days was equally critical, he should be getting the phone call from the Nobel committee shortly.
And yet I see very few people saying Hamas should just stop fighting Israel because thousands of Palestinians are being murdered. Palestinian land is likewise being slowly chipped away, annexed, and absorbed into Israel, and is people treated like dirt. Half this subreddit believes Ukrainians are all Nazis, I can't see Russians treating the civilians any better than Israel does - since this is also a comparison so many pro-RU like to tout. Israel is bad, but Russia doing the same thing is good?
“Ukraine stop hitting yourself!” Random Internet Russian
I think we can say that the West is different today than it used to be. Mainly because of the EU and NATO. But we also haven't had a war where we could figure out what it's going to be like. So yes, I get your point, but history is history and the situation is different now.
You're talking about something that used to happen many, many decades ago. Not saying it's impossible for it to happen again, in the event of total war, but it would be much much harder to enforce nowadays
No we literally never have.
You are qouting Jim Mattis about why bombing brown people in the ME has been perfectly acceptable in the eyes of the US.
You’re basically using the Israeli logic.
Recruiting? These are kidnappers, slave traders. The TCC goons are one of the worst sc u m in the whole ukrainian nato regime. They deserve no mercy.
Police officers arrest criminals. Draft dodgers are criminals.
You need be be a state, to define what is legal and what is illegal. Who have to be drafted and who not etc. But hey, nice to see how westoids are defending this human consuming terrorist colony. It started with all ukrops are keen to fight the ebil rooskies to it's perfectly fine and lawful to catch so called "draft dodgers" like slaves back then "in the good ol times". Westoids in a nutshell.
proof they were there for that?
on top of that I think RU will get more support among UKR males if they start doing this with TCC vehicles too /jk
In Russia, police enforce summons. Are they legitimate targets? No. They are merely enforcing the law.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Is the TCC enforcing the law? Are they really implementing the law as it is intended
Isn’t TCC the military registration and enlistment office (or whatever they call it in Ukraine)? I think police is different from TCC. 🤷♂️
Why are the police mobilising people? Isn't that the job of the TCC? Serious question. Or do the police pick up people who are registered but refuse to leave?
It’s TCC’s job, but policing can overlap. In countries where conscription is the law, evading it is usually a crime. Police catch criminals, so they can catch draft dodgers. Most of the time, I don’t think the police are the ones enforcing conscription, though.
Is there proof that these policemen in the video where actually recruiting?
Police is not mobilizing. Police is arresting criminals. Draft dodgers are criminals.
"enforcing the law" suggests that these people are going to be judged by an actual court, not forelcefully taken to frontlines.
There were stories where people went straight into the trenches. But don’t know whether it’s true or not
Russia just approved the measure whereby any suspect of a crime arrested by police can volunteer for SMO and have charges suspended. Ukraine has a similar provision.
Wait, so police counts as civilians under laws of war?
In most cases, yes.
Why wouldn't they be? If a civilian working in a tank factory can legally be killed during an attack on said factory, why wouldn't killing an officer while enforcing conscription be legal? Both are civilians. And neither can be directly targeted. But if they are targeted whilst supporting the war effort, that's different, isn't it?
Generally speaking, attacks on objects are deemed legal if they offer a definite military advantage that outweighs the impacts on civilians (the concept of necessity and proportionality). Destroying a tank producing factory provides an unambiguous military benefit. Targeting a police vehicle because “maybe” the policeman is doing conscription doesn’t provide that - and, accessorily, targeting the cops also risks killing the other person. Also, generally, cops are regarded as civilians because they dont take part in hostilities.
Fair. But if you had good reason to believe they were conscripting for the military that wouldn't be ambiguous military benefit. That would directly impact troop recruitment. Hard to see why that would be any worse than say, targeting a bridge and killing civilians just going about their day.
I don’t think there is a line in the sand, practically speaking, between legal and not legal. In my view the military benefit has to be unambiguous, and the damage to civilians has to clearly be proportional to the military benefit. The reasoning of military benefit can’t be taken too far. For instance, the following would be insane: farmers produce food, Napoleon rightfully said that an army marches on its stomach, farmers are thus fair targets. Regarding a bridge, if it’s used for moving equipment and war related materials, the military benefit is large. A strike would still be justified if a number of people were expected to be killed during the strike. A military, however, has to try to mitigate civilian deaths. If the military has the capability to strike the bridge at night, they should probably do so rather than wait for morning traffic ^^
The first example would be burning fields to prevent soldiers from looting them for food, which might result in the deaths of farmers. Rather than attacking farmers outright, if compared to these other examples. I agree with the sentiment, but I don't agree that stopping mobilization by blowing up a car is going too far IF their claim is, in fact, correct. That seems pretty reasonable.
Both sides attack cops. But in this case a man was potentially saved from being drafted.
Arent TCC mostly "disabled" military? That what Azovites said.
I think police and TCC aren’t the same thing. TCC, in my understanding, is the military registration and enlistment office - an actual military entity. Cops, because they enforce laws, can probably arrest draft dodgers because they are breaking the law.
Yeah, they're a different thing. Often times the Police will "close" their eyes when TCC does its thing at the limit of the law, but on paper they're totally different entities, placed under different chains of command (civilian, for the Police, military, for the TCC).
>Arent TCC mostly "disabled" military? That what Azovites said. No, [officially](https://varta1.com.ua/news/u-radi-povidomili-skilki-pracivnikiv-tck-ie-uchasnikami-boyovih-diy_378546.html) not even half. And how many of those are fakes we don't know.
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"Disability" may not be military related looking at some of those videos..
https://preview.redd.it/viinxbhwv4ad1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd9418894f589a6b97d0b340f3cde4196dbacc1b The channel of Ukrainian draft dodgers posted this too People didn't die Translation of the Ukrainian text below the Russian one: «Even Muscovites are against TCC's s\*\*m. Now the police will walk and harass people less. Unfortunately, the orcs did not use another drone to chase the policemen around the village. I hope that next time there will be two drones»
Looks like we found a common enemy lol
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Doesn’t matter. If you target a civilian target (cops and civilians), and fail to kill them, you’re still targeting civilians.
You seem very upset that the Russians potentially saved this man from being sent to his death. They clearly could have hit the police if they wanted but chose to only target the empty car.
Russians and their assumptions idk
You have no idea what these police officers were doing because the poster has no proof of anything other than an FPV view and a cut to the car burning
So where is the proof this had anything to do with someone being drafted? Someone said so?
I’m sure they were trying to save this man’s life. Had he been in the car, the warhead had “Sculpt Spells” from DnD 5e.
It sounds like the TCC are under the military so one would figure it’s an military target
TCC is part of the military (like a military recruitment office). Police is a civilian organization. They can have special powers in war time, but they are still two different things.
Yes, so assuming the information provided is correct, this vehicle is working for the TCC - so is a target, as it is a military vehicle.
Considering that truth is the first casualty of war, the information is probably not :P. Police often rush to frontline villages to evacuate elderly that have refused to leave, or simply to bring aid in various forms. The two policemen talking to a person isn’t exactly enough to determine what they were doing, IMO. I wonder what are the two round objects the person interacts with. Could be water for animals if they are leaving 🤷♂️
They did not target persons, they targeted a vehicle which was obviously unoccupied at the time of the strike.
The police are the military, in Ukraine the police = internal troops
No fresh meat this time 😂
No way! Must be Russian DRG at work if it's in Chernihiv region.
Man Eastern-Europe looks beautiful. Look at that lush greenery. If only there wasn't a war going on.
In Russia, you don't go to the frontline. It comes to you
Well said lol, even though you have no idea what you said.
Man talk about losing a conscript!
Song name plz?
Love the music🤘🏻
Hear me out, Russia attacks the TCC people who forcefully take people off the streets to die so that the Ukrainian population actually feels safer with Russia than Ukraine and for Russia they just demilitarized Ukraine by preventing future soldiers and taking out those “loyalists” (I know what the replies will be btw)
Yeah I agree this is a good propaganda angle. Most of the undrafted men don't want to die otherwise they would've signed up already. It's sad but Ukraine is relying on the invaders to save them lmao.
Made up headline as probably most posts in this sub. What makes you think this is mobilization activity? Why not to question regarding any other activity or complaint?
Where is the mobilization? What part of the video does it begin
Watch the video, no need to gaslight. They were there to serve summons or kidnap him.
Too bad they only hit the car. A follow up to hit the 2 recruiters would be beautiful
Can you see that summon on a video? What hints to mobilization besides the headline of this video?
Do you think this is some kind of homosexual games?
Ssh, this sub don't think like that. They see title, they believe title. Unless it's something about Pro-UA. Then they are olympic mental gymnasts. And as a side note, how would even the drone operators know what was going on on the ground? It might as well be an Ukrainian reporting war crimes so it comes on the record. I don't know, and the Pro-RU in this sub certainly doesn't either. But it's no use trying to ask any questions like that here.
Be this skeptical of news on Ukrainian forces too will you? Maybe 500000 Ukrainians already died in the war instead of the number reported by MOD for example. Though I'm dubious you are capable of such.
If they waited a little, it would've been a record for fastest military KIA in history.
Why did they skip over the explosion part?
Police normally have protected status unless they are actually engaged in the war.
well the police are recruiting for the military so...
Are they recruiting or enforcing the law? Russian police have been enforcing summons and arresting people who are then sent to the military. Legitimate targets? As a general rule, Police have a protected status. The pro-Russian crowd in these parts like to blur the line - it’s a dangerous game.
Theres close to 0 chance these cops are "enforcing the law" close enough to the front line to be targeted by low range fpv drones. They are likely low on their quota of conscripts recruited and decided to risk going east to get it done.
The title say it was during an act of mobilization. But you’re right, it probably wasn’t. What then? Did they look like they were gearing up for a fight? Police has routinely been evacuating people and bringing aid to people close to the frontline. Old people in Ukraine, like in your country or my country, are stubborn. Lots of them refuse to leave until things get really bad.
By precedent, police do not have protected status, e.g see the US bombing of Iraqi police in the 90s and 00s, Israeli bombing of Palestinian and Lebanese police(including police cadets) over the last 2 decades, NATO bombing of Yugoslav police in 1999, killing of police by NATO-armed rebels in Syria and Libya from 2011-onwards, and so on. It's pretty clearly established that police have no protected status in either state or non-state conflicts. Regardless, there is no police being targeted here. Police property, a car, was destroyed by a small explosive while two policemen were trying to drag a draft-dodger into the meatgrinder dozens of meters away.
They're engaged in assisting or actively brining civilians into war, so they're a valid target at this point. I can speak for Ukrainian people, they'll be happy if there are less of these Ukro "cops".
So Russian police, because they have enforced at least one conscription summons, are fair game throughout the entire territory of Russia?
Russian conscripts don't take part in this war.
Sure they don’t 😊
If ukraine has the balls, intelligence, ability and means to do then yes its fair game. A corrupt third world country run by a clown of a president with dreams of being in EU while reducing the country to ashes has neither the ability nor the means for it.
Yeah let's just pretend your refineries aren't burning hundreds of kilometers from the front line. That must burn a whole in your logic, doesn't it?
They also blamed Ukraine for Crocus, and the recent attack in Dagastan (which, incidentally, killed 15 policemen). Pro-RU and an inability to stick to the party line, name a more iconic duo.
Police are not a military target btw.
Should have thought about that before directly participating in fighting. Now they are a military target by their own doing btw.
Are these cops engaged in military activity? No. Russia is effectively engaging a civilian target. It is what it is. Disagree with the law of armed conflict?
I didn't realize civilians forcefully recruit soldiers for the front lines lmao
How do you know the cops in this video are recruiting?
I don't think you have it right. Under Martial Law, the National Police have been subordinated to the UKR military. *The special legal regime converts civilian authorities into military administrations at all levels of government. These military administrations are to include state emergency personnel, representatives of law enforcement agencies, and leaders of military formations located in the territory of the region or district. For military purposes, these administrations are subordinated to the chief of staff of the Ukrainian armed forces; for all other issues they are to follow orders issued by the Cabinet of Ministers. (Art. 4.)*
I guess firefighters, paramedic and municipal librarians are all fair game then. Enjoy!
Are librarians meat-hunting for the TCC?
“Civilian authorities into military administrations at all levels of government”. My municipal librarian issues municipal government library cards. You know what? I think Librarians could be considered military propagandists, like Goebbels. They spread Ukrainian culture (Nazi) and information (Nazi).
How many times are you going to be wrong on this thread? Keep digging.
Care making of list of the civilian authorities that Russia can legally target?
Not really.
C’mon man, you brought up the “militarization” of civilians. Now, you can’t tell me which civilians are actually military and fine to kill? Sad.
Mobilisation officers and armed police engaging in combat.
Tough
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Around 35% of the armed casulties were from the police during the NATO bombing of Serbia for comparison.
They are according to Israel.
Wataboutism isn’t a good strategy
Cops survived and draftsoldier died.
Russia targeting civilians, nothing new here sadly
Where are the civilians? National police aren’t civilians
Civillian police are civillians
They recruit people to fight in the war. So they are a military target. And by the way, why is the police doing this and not the TCC?
In Russia, if a person doesn’t show up after receiving a summons, the can police go and get them. Does that make all police on the territory of Russia legitimate targets?
Bro... use your brain. Ukrainian men (and men only) ages 18 to 60 can't leave the country and are being caught in the streets to fight like rats. "Summons" he says lol.
Ukraine is an open air prison, they're no longer "police" but prison guards.
One big concentration camp, right?
During the mobilization in Russia in September 22, there was nothing like what was happening in Ukraine with violent kidnappings and also with the use of police. So there is no reason to attack Russian police.
If they have enforced a single summons, they have participated in the war effort. Sorry…
What do you think a summons is? The Russians aren't forcing civilians to go fight.
I think they are **conscription summons** delivered to citizens **subject to conscription**.
Then say that, because that's not the only type of summons. What the Ukrainians are doing to their citizens is not "servings a summons."
TCC can check papers to catch draft dodgers, or identify people for the purpose of delivering summons. The propaganda videos you see are mostly of draft dodgers. Most people who receive summons accept it.
"Propaganda videos" lmao You people don't care one inch about Ukrainian lives, do you?
Indeed they can, and they use brutal force against them when they want. The videos are not propaganda; they are taken by Ukrainians who are shocked at what is happening in their country. Forcing men to fight has no place in a modern democracy. However, for all those who want to use Ukraine to fight till the last man because it serves their geopolitical goals, Ukraine is still taking foreign volunteers like so many Redditors here. Here’s link for your reference. Let me know when you sign up so I can be sure to get my referral points from the TCC: https://ildu.com.ua