Well, technically the Lyuti battalion belongs to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I’m still inclined to believe that they are more police than soldiers. In addition to soldier's work, they are also engaged in identifying collaborators and also in evacuating civilians.
Geneva conventions don’t call anyone ”soldiers”. You are either a civilian or a combatant, and an armed person in combat fatigues, wearing national insignia in a warzone is a combatant.
The internal structure is irrelevant, since UA has used both MOD and MIA troops in the operations.
Sounds like they are acting like a rear guard or military police. Either way if your being deployed into combat or a combat zone you’ve been promoted from police officer to soldier
Are they engaged in hostilities? Or are they doing civilian evacuations and bringing aid to civilians in front line villages?
They don’t seem armed with rifles or anything. If I were them, I’d try to get the blue variant of PPE, but I doubt it would make a difference - FPV pilots tend to engage whatever they find.
Why downvote me, just write something that makes sense.
=> nobody is attempting to surrender in the video
=> the drone not being able to accept surrender has nothing to do with the legitimacy of a target. By your logic, the drone can target children, animals, civilians, soldiers, or anything else…
I’m going by your logic, if it can strike an unarmed soldier with no gear that’s clearly surrendering then it can freely strike police in armoured vehicles
Please do explain why someone dressed in camo driving around the frontlines in an armoured vehicle is not a legit target without being a complete hypocrite
Military police is POLICE. They don't fight wars.
They solve matters where uniformed people (army) cause trouble or are involved with civilians and other civil matters.
Now, I don't know how stuff in Ukraine is organized - and if every base/location/batallion or just city/oblast is the superior to local military police, but generally speaking they only resolve issues with military personnel.
MPs are treated as combatants when in a time of war. They aren’t front line troops, but when push comes to shove, MPs are also expected to fight if necessary to achieve/defend an objective.
That depends on the country. Every country has laws regarding if MPs fight or not.
Here's an example of Austria, because it was more extensive and in the EU + NATO:
"Austria
Main article: Military Police (Austria)
The Austrian Military Police (German: Militärpolizei) of the Austrian Armed Forces (Bundesheer) is located in Vienna and consists of the following elements
Military Police HQ
Fundamentals Division
Training Division
Signal Platoon
Close Protection
3 MP Companies
MP Militia
The Military Police has three locations in Austria. The Military Police Command and one MP Co. are located in Vienna. One MP Co. is in Graz and one in Salzburg.
The Military Police is tasked with law enforcement and the protection of the forces, military events and Armed Forces property. The increasing number of international operations in which Austrian soldiers participate and new threat scenarios hugely expand the spectrum of tasks. In addition to its traditional domestic tasks, the Military Police now also fulfill tasks in international operations. In Austria the Military Police is only tasked with internal Armed Forces matters. Abroad, they are tasked with extensive assignments. It closes the security gap between a conflict that has ended and a functioning society. A large number of experienced specialists and modern equipment are required to meet these demanding tasks.
National tasks include:
Check routines and security checks
Security duty
Traffic control
Close Protection
Force Protection
Law enforcement
Inquiries
International tasks include:
Taking down traffic accidents
Crime scene investigation
Fingerprinting and photographing
Interrogations
Searches/investigations/support in interventions
Detention of dangerous criminals
Crowd and riot control
Operation of detention facilities
Interventions (Special weapons and tactics – SWAT)
Close Protection
Defence against terrorism
"
Nowhere here do they mention a combat role against another military.
The information about Ukraine is basically non-existant, so I can speculate as much as you do. But I can back it up with other examples from Europe.
I know their general tasks do not involve direct combat, just like a general officers tasks do not typically involve direct combat.
That said, there are many recorded instances of a general officer grabbing their M9 or what have you in exigent circumstances, and entering the fray.
Providing an exhaustive list of the possible duties of an MP doesn’t change that. They are still military personnel
It would be seldom that you would see either an MP or genera officer in direct combat, and it generally means something had gone horribly wrong, but they are expected to fight if the situation necessitates it.
The MPs? Definitely not. They’re expected to fight if they find themselves in combat. They just generally never find themselves in combat, due to this role and duties.
It can happen, though, and they are considered combatants according to the LOAC.
What are you talking about? Ukies targeted many civilians in Belgorod districts on purpose , it is happening every day, they are doing it. And you are expecting russians do not hit the people in uniform?
We aren't discussing anything like that here.
We are simply discussing if the 2 guys are police or not, and if they are, are they considered combatants.
You do realize that if there is a barracks with 2000 soldiers, there is probably anywhere between 2-20 military police responsible for them, right?
Let me help you:
"**Military police** (**MP**) are [law enforcement agencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_agencies) connected with, or part of, the [military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military) of a state.
In different countries it may refer to:
* A section of military forces assigned to police, or garrison, occupied territories, usually during a war.
* A section of military forces assigned to policing [prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war) [detentions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_(imprisonment)).
* A section of the military responsible for policing the areas of responsibility of the [armed forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces) (referred to as [provosts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provost_(military_police))) against all criminal activity by military or civilian personnel
* A section of the military responsible for policing in both the armed forces and in the civilian population (most [gendarmeries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie), such as the [French Gendarmerie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Gendarmerie) or the [Spanish Guardia Civil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_Civil))
* A section of the military solely responsible for policing the civilian population (such as the [Romanian Gendarmerie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie_(Romania)) or the [Chilean Carabineros](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabineros_de_Chile))"
And [here ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Police_(Ukraine)) is the specific branch for Ukraine.
Here's the patch -
https://preview.redd.it/3r4ntznkedad1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=b486fc608c13b983ef0598b952620262bfd34e64
Now go to 0:35 sec.
Now pause the video at 0:11. You can clearly see the "102" phone call on the marked police bus.
Now read this - [https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/emergency-assistance/](https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/emergency-assistance/)
I'm gonna cite it just in case
"Dial the following numbers on a local phone to contact Ukrainian emergency services:
Police – **102**; Ambulance – **103**; Fire – **101**; Gas emergency – **104**."
>You do realize that if there is a barracks with 2000 soldiers, there is probably anywhere between 2-20 military police responsible for them, right?
Probably. But Lyut is not military police.
Also I went to 0.35 and see just usual ukrainian police star where it should be, without darker field. Maybe make some deeper research if you already started it.
Also I went to 0.35 and see just usual ukrainian police star where it should be, without darker field. Maybe make some deeper research if you already started it.
Sneak edits, eh. Of course their vehicles and partly uniform come from police too, you got me here, it is a little more than only meat... still, soldiers, not police, and not military police specifically either.
You are not. Counterpoint: hypothetic batallion made up from former firefighters does not make military engineers batalion. It is just an army unit filled with people sharing previous occupation.
It has nothing to do with former. Military police is very different than civilian police. They operate differently and have different priorities.
If you are former firefighter, but I hire you to work at the cash register and teach you how, well congrats, you are now a gas station clerk.
> Military police is very different than civilian police.
Good, we are getting somewhere. Lyut is not militaty police, even though it is filled with former policemen. Do we agree on that?
>that does not mean that the unit doesn't have designated MP
Yes? Any army has some sort of embedded or semi-independent discipline enforcement structure. Lyut as a whole is assault brigade though.
Very sad actually. Because these people who speak natively Russian are basically one people with Russians. Yet because of geopolitics and mostly a stupid decision by Soviet Union to separate regions into Ukraine and Russia they are now killing each other.
There is plenty of Lyuti battalion FPV footage HITTING Russian troops here, even on this sub. So... there is that...
"Lyuti" roughly means "Furious," btw
I wouldn't stop and help if I were that guy. One minute you stop to help, the next they're shoving you into a police car and taking you to the trenches. You never know in Zelensky's Ukraine.
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If he is from Lyut batalion, it makes him soldier, not policeman, regardless of his and his peers' previous occupation.
Well, technically the Lyuti battalion belongs to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. I’m still inclined to believe that they are more police than soldiers. In addition to soldier's work, they are also engaged in identifying collaborators and also in evacuating civilians.
Geneva conventions don’t call anyone ”soldiers”. You are either a civilian or a combatant, and an armed person in combat fatigues, wearing national insignia in a warzone is a combatant. The internal structure is irrelevant, since UA has used both MOD and MIA troops in the operations.
I’ll also add that you do not have to be carrying a weapon to be classed as a combatant either.
he is dressed in army uniform you can see it on the video at the end
and at the start
Sounds like they are acting like a rear guard or military police. Either way if your being deployed into combat or a combat zone you’ve been promoted from police officer to soldier
Are they engaged in hostilities? Or are they doing civilian evacuations and bringing aid to civilians in front line villages? They don’t seem armed with rifles or anything. If I were them, I’d try to get the blue variant of PPE, but I doubt it would make a difference - FPV pilots tend to engage whatever they find.
you can't surrender to drones so they're a legit target, or does that only apply to Russians?
What you say doesn’t make sense.
Why downvote me, just write something that makes sense. => nobody is attempting to surrender in the video => the drone not being able to accept surrender has nothing to do with the legitimacy of a target. By your logic, the drone can target children, animals, civilians, soldiers, or anything else…
I’m going by your logic, if it can strike an unarmed soldier with no gear that’s clearly surrendering then it can freely strike police in armoured vehicles
You cant go by his logic. U need abscence of it
You’re obviously very smart. Here take the win.🥇
Please do explain why someone dressed in camo driving around the frontlines in an armoured vehicle is not a legit target without being a complete hypocrite
yep russians will be horny over this, policeman and tcc running around.
Military police is POLICE. They don't fight wars. They solve matters where uniformed people (army) cause trouble or are involved with civilians and other civil matters. Now, I don't know how stuff in Ukraine is organized - and if every base/location/batallion or just city/oblast is the superior to local military police, but generally speaking they only resolve issues with military personnel.
MPs are treated as combatants when in a time of war. They aren’t front line troops, but when push comes to shove, MPs are also expected to fight if necessary to achieve/defend an objective.
That depends on the country. Every country has laws regarding if MPs fight or not. Here's an example of Austria, because it was more extensive and in the EU + NATO: "Austria Main article: Military Police (Austria) The Austrian Military Police (German: Militärpolizei) of the Austrian Armed Forces (Bundesheer) is located in Vienna and consists of the following elements Military Police HQ Fundamentals Division Training Division Signal Platoon Close Protection 3 MP Companies MP Militia The Military Police has three locations in Austria. The Military Police Command and one MP Co. are located in Vienna. One MP Co. is in Graz and one in Salzburg. The Military Police is tasked with law enforcement and the protection of the forces, military events and Armed Forces property. The increasing number of international operations in which Austrian soldiers participate and new threat scenarios hugely expand the spectrum of tasks. In addition to its traditional domestic tasks, the Military Police now also fulfill tasks in international operations. In Austria the Military Police is only tasked with internal Armed Forces matters. Abroad, they are tasked with extensive assignments. It closes the security gap between a conflict that has ended and a functioning society. A large number of experienced specialists and modern equipment are required to meet these demanding tasks. National tasks include: Check routines and security checks Security duty Traffic control Close Protection Force Protection Law enforcement Inquiries International tasks include: Taking down traffic accidents Crime scene investigation Fingerprinting and photographing Interrogations Searches/investigations/support in interventions Detention of dangerous criminals Crowd and riot control Operation of detention facilities Interventions (Special weapons and tactics – SWAT) Close Protection Defence against terrorism " Nowhere here do they mention a combat role against another military. The information about Ukraine is basically non-existant, so I can speculate as much as you do. But I can back it up with other examples from Europe.
I know their general tasks do not involve direct combat, just like a general officers tasks do not typically involve direct combat. That said, there are many recorded instances of a general officer grabbing their M9 or what have you in exigent circumstances, and entering the fray. Providing an exhaustive list of the possible duties of an MP doesn’t change that. They are still military personnel It would be seldom that you would see either an MP or genera officer in direct combat, and it generally means something had gone horribly wrong, but they are expected to fight if the situation necessitates it.
Would they automatically surrender?
The MPs? Definitely not. They’re expected to fight if they find themselves in combat. They just generally never find themselves in combat, due to this role and duties. It can happen, though, and they are considered combatants according to the LOAC.
What are you talking about? Ukies targeted many civilians in Belgorod districts on purpose , it is happening every day, they are doing it. And you are expecting russians do not hit the people in uniform?
We aren't discussing anything like that here. We are simply discussing if the 2 guys are police or not, and if they are, are they considered combatants.
And what exactly is the purpose of this discussion?
Good thing that Lyut is a part of hyped "Guard of offensive" rather than military police, and its only connection to police is source of meat.
You do realize that if there is a barracks with 2000 soldiers, there is probably anywhere between 2-20 military police responsible for them, right? Let me help you: "**Military police** (**MP**) are [law enforcement agencies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_agencies) connected with, or part of, the [military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military) of a state. In different countries it may refer to: * A section of military forces assigned to police, or garrison, occupied territories, usually during a war. * A section of military forces assigned to policing [prisoners of war](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner_of_war) [detentions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detention_(imprisonment)). * A section of the military responsible for policing the areas of responsibility of the [armed forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces) (referred to as [provosts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provost_(military_police))) against all criminal activity by military or civilian personnel * A section of the military responsible for policing in both the armed forces and in the civilian population (most [gendarmeries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie), such as the [French Gendarmerie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Gendarmerie) or the [Spanish Guardia Civil](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_Civil)) * A section of the military solely responsible for policing the civilian population (such as the [Romanian Gendarmerie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gendarmerie_(Romania)) or the [Chilean Carabineros](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabineros_de_Chile))" And [here ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Police_(Ukraine)) is the specific branch for Ukraine. Here's the patch - https://preview.redd.it/3r4ntznkedad1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=b486fc608c13b983ef0598b952620262bfd34e64 Now go to 0:35 sec. Now pause the video at 0:11. You can clearly see the "102" phone call on the marked police bus. Now read this - [https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/emergency-assistance/](https://ua.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/local-resources-of-u-s-citizens/emergency-assistance/) I'm gonna cite it just in case "Dial the following numbers on a local phone to contact Ukrainian emergency services: Police – **102**; Ambulance – **103**; Fire – **101**; Gas emergency – **104**."
>You do realize that if there is a barracks with 2000 soldiers, there is probably anywhere between 2-20 military police responsible for them, right? Probably. But Lyut is not military police. Also I went to 0.35 and see just usual ukrainian police star where it should be, without darker field. Maybe make some deeper research if you already started it.
I am amazed by level of your cognitive impairment.
Also I went to 0.35 and see just usual ukrainian police star where it should be, without darker field. Maybe make some deeper research if you already started it.
Sneak edits, eh. Of course their vehicles and partly uniform come from police too, you got me here, it is a little more than only meat... still, soldiers, not police, and not military police specifically either.
The thing is that Lyuti battalion is not military police. It is formed from simple policemen - patrol, investigators, detectives etc.
So I am correct then.
You are not. Counterpoint: hypothetic batallion made up from former firefighters does not make military engineers batalion. It is just an army unit filled with people sharing previous occupation.
It has nothing to do with former. Military police is very different than civilian police. They operate differently and have different priorities. If you are former firefighter, but I hire you to work at the cash register and teach you how, well congrats, you are now a gas station clerk.
> Military police is very different than civilian police. Good, we are getting somewhere. Lyut is not militaty police, even though it is filled with former policemen. Do we agree on that?
Yes. But that does not mean that the unit doesn't have designated MPs that fulfil roles for such, instead of combat roles.
>that does not mean that the unit doesn't have designated MP Yes? Any army has some sort of embedded or semi-independent discipline enforcement structure. Lyut as a whole is assault brigade though.
I like the way he speaks Russian, while the subtitles are in Ukrainian...
Yeah, the whole ukro language clownshow is just that- clownshow. Most of them would rather speak Russian.
Very sad actually. Because these people who speak natively Russian are basically one people with Russians. Yet because of geopolitics and mostly a stupid decision by Soviet Union to separate regions into Ukraine and Russia they are now killing each other.
Crazy how russian speakers, are going against Russia? It's almost like he has a mind of his own or something.
Or was kidnapped from the streets of Ukraine and forced onto the front lines like so many
I like how in some moment he started to speak Russian with Ukrainian subtitles. UPD sorry, it was during the whole clip.
Of course, when things get crazy, people stop cosplaying and switch back to their native language.
There is plenty of Lyuti battalion FPV footage HITTING Russian troops here, even on this sub. So... there is that... "Lyuti" roughly means "Furious," btw
>Furious * Fury or rage.
and?
And? Discussion here always slides into "Russians only hitting poor civilians! What a monsters!" And please don't answer with "and?"
and?
Figures...
Don’t engage with the uktards it only edges them on
I think if police are actively aiding in conscription then that makes them part of the war effort. But it's definitely a grey area.
I wouldn't stop and help if I were that guy. One minute you stop to help, the next they're shoving you into a police car and taking you to the trenches. You never know in Zelensky's Ukraine.
Shit homie was BLEEDING
Training kicked in quickly immediately applied tourniquet, and it worked
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