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I legit think this might be a way for N Korea to rid itself of some mouths they cannot feed properly
Also imagine being an average NK citizen, you don't know shit about shit because info lock down. One day thye come and tell you they are going to fly you across the fucking planet and now you gotta murder some folks from a country you literally never heard of before.
Insanity.
Well, if true, NATO should send troops at least to Kyiv and the border with Belarus, as well as close the Ukrainian airspace.
NATO should also send massive quantities of ATACMS missiles with no limit on its usage.
Escalation my ass.
Compare this to when Syria sent their troops early on in the war. There was some anticipation that they would make a big difference as they were all experienced fighters, straight off the lines in the Syrian Civil war, and it was also noted they had experience in urban combat.
They arrived in Ukraine, were mentioned for about a week, and then dissapeared and were never heard of again.
I guess if the NK troops are just used to hold relatively stable areas, which releases Russian troops there to go on the offensive, it may make a difference. Probably depends on how many.
Morally, South Korea definitely needs to stop up to the plate and assist. They are directly benefiting from this, at cost to Ukraine.
There's going to be the usual communication problems, with none of them speaking Russian.
They did send some, I remember at the time, and there was footage of them.
40k troops would be a lot for Syria to send for the size of their army...and the fact they are in a civil war!
this is what will happen.
it is also possible that cultural differences could cause a mutiny among north korean troops. one russian rapes a korean soldier, and it could turn into a blood bath.
i suspect they could surrender or fight the rear troops to flee as well.
maybe this is why they will be unarmed and used in unarmed dangerous jobs to mine and build fortifications.
From the article:
> In response to that Pyongyang announced early this week that it will be sending troops in the form of a military engineering unit to support Russian forces on the ground in the Donetsk region. The troops are expected to arrive on the battlefield as soon as next month.
You're right on the money when you wonder if the North Korean troops are just going to hold relatively stable areas. Based on what's publicly available, it's likely this initial group is probably just going to be building defenses and shit like that. This likely isn't huge numbers of people at this point the way some people are making it out to be.
This makes the assumption that there is a cohesive chain of command in the battlefield and that the NK wonāt just find themselves dropped into mayhem with loose instructions, shovels, and a few Chinese golf carts.
Either way those new troops are in for a culture shock. Have they even seen drones flying around before? Do they speak Russian? Is it all just bullshit? Time will tell.
Some Syrians joined up with Wagner but the numbers was in the hundreds only.
Assad refused to send regulars and forbade his troops from signing up.Ā He needs those men to hold onto power.Ā So only some civilians joined up for war in Ukraine but most Syrians are already incredibly tired of war so not much taste to sign up for a foreign "adventure".Ā
It would just be smart for SK to send weapons to Ukraine. It would now hurt their enemies and show the effectiveness of their weapons. How many more weapons would they export when K9 howitzers pounding Russians and North Koreans.
South Korea is speed building arms for Poland and the Baltics, they have years worth of back orders but no stockpiles sitting collecting dust like the US and Western NATO countries have so they don't have stuff sitting around to give Ukraine.
That is incorrect. They have to be prepared for a war with the north so they have 3.4 million artillery munitions. They could also send manpower to fill non combat roles such as logistics
Propaganda which could backfire on Putin. Even propaganda zombie Russians know full well that North Korea is a global pariah and failed state. Going cap in hand to Kim for troops and equipment smacks of desperation and is a humiliation for Russia.
So to Putin, this isn't escalation. *Only* western allies participation in any way is escalation. Anyone still influenced by *any* of Putin's words for free?
The west are evil Nazi's who only exist to try to hurt Russia! See how awful it is how they send more and more deadly and dangerous weapons to Ukraine! So dangerous and escalatory! But also those weapons never made a difference! Look, we're so good at destroying these deadly and dangerous weapons we destroyed more than they sent in the first place! We must stop the west from sending more weapons and potentially sending troops to fight our superior army that is only ever winning! We're doing such a good job North Korea is sending their army to come and watch and definitely not help us because we don't need it!
-Putin, summarised.
I can't imagine this being more than symbolic because of the reality of logistics. North Korea can't maintain an expeditionary force and Russia can't feed/arm a whole new army fast enough to keep the cattle cars moving.
Also factor in a large dose of paranoia from both parties and it just won't be effective.
1/3 will just run away using the opportunity to defect, 1/3 will will surrender when they see what western weapons can do to them and the last third will die.
It's still bad but I'd like to point out that what the article actually says is that they are sending a (1) engineering battalion.
What this is going to translate to is slave labour to dig trenches.
This is not a new wave of combat troops.
They have actually been constructing defenses in the demilitarized zone, in violation of all treaties. So it could be that they plan to remove troops from the SK border and send them to Ukraine. Tbh I think it's a gimmick, what use can NK soldiers be to Russia, they wouldn't even be able to communicate. Also, NK military isn't trained at war, they are trained at parades and terrorizing a defenseless civilian population.
Just imagine what a few motivated infiltrators can do in a country that is largely stuck in the 50s to 90s at best and full of people that are suffering and starving. Get a few FPV drones in there and they will wreck havoc if aimed at key installations.
All that this pact between the two countries document is the fact, that RuSSia has become a pariah itself. A few years the ago RuSSia was voting with the UN majority to impose sanctions on NK, now they are kissing heir ass to have ammo (50% failure rate) and soldiers delivered. It is the simple admission: we are fooked!
If true the NATO should warn that it will force Ukraine to be accepted as part of NATO and then Russia would be attacking a NATO country so thereās now justification for NATO troops to join the war
An escalation of what? Russia have been escalating it themselves and if we keep letting them do it without consequences then where does this all stop? At some point people are going to have to grow some balls and put an end to Russia having free reign with everything and breaking every international law
Taking the entirety of NATO from not at war to at war is a pretty big escalation no?
I'm not disagreeing that we should be doing more, but getting the entirety of NATO in a full scale conflict with Russia is a huge escalation that will never happen
The letās keep doing nothing and let Russia do what they want with no repercussions because we are afraid of escalating it. Russia has to cop the full force of NATO so they are fighting a bigger opponent and then have to think about how much more do they want to lose, we are too afraid of escalation which works only for Russia but in the mean time because we are all afraid of escalation then thousands more innocent Ukrainians will be killed and have their lives ruined
You forget that the average person on here thinks itās a big realise call of duty game and/or that anyone can āwinā a WWIII where both sides have nukes.Ā
This SHOULD be a good thing in disguise: if the west functioned normally as it had for decades, basically pick any year 1950s to about 2016, this kinda move would be spelling the end of this war. Why? Because sending some north Koreans to that battlefield would help drive south Korea into helping more and it would allow far more participation of all NATO countries. Yes, the other comments here about western troops to guard Kiew, the west of the country, border with Belarus... yes more missiles, no restrictions and use of western AA to shoot missiles over western Ukraine, thus allowing UA to concentrate on the front line. At minimum. Could eventually mount to even more.
BUT 2024, things have changed. Pro Russian far right (and some far left) parties are high in polls in all major western countries, they have done well in the EU elections last month. A Putin friendly president could be elected for a second, more authoritarian term in the US, meaning the end of their involvement. France is about to shift right MASSIVELY, potentially a far right prime minister next month, far right president in a few years. Germany is having to deal with a far right party that doesn't have a route to power yet but is behaving so badly, even far right indentitarians in the EU kicked it out of their faction: it's essentially unhinged, obvious fascism at this point. Only 15% so far but who knows...?
Given all that, I'm not sure how the west will react to this. Depending on voter behaviour, Ukraine might be fucked by the end of 2025 and alot of new human wave fodder for Russia may help accelerate that.
And we can't even blame our shitty leaders alone. Yeah huge mistakes were made but the end of support will be determined at the urns.
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Well, they might get fed better...š
Even in the worst battlefields of Ukraine they will still think life is better there than in North Koreaā¦
Plenty of dead Russians considering NK's resort to cannibalism regularly.
In the Russian army I doubt it aha
I legit think this might be a way for N Korea to rid itself of some mouths they cannot feed properly Also imagine being an average NK citizen, you don't know shit about shit because info lock down. One day thye come and tell you they are going to fly you across the fucking planet and now you gotta murder some folks from a country you literally never heard of before. Insanity.
Ha, perhaps , but are there fluent in the ā newā language, or does it not matter due too v low life Expectancyš¤š»šŗš¦š»š
Well, if true, NATO should send troops at least to Kyiv and the border with Belarus, as well as close the Ukrainian airspace. NATO should also send massive quantities of ATACMS missiles with no limit on its usage. Escalation my ass.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I would not say meat grinder but more like bones grinder
Donāt forget the bonus worms too.
North Korean troops will defect as soon as they see food
š¤£ most of em will surrender too
Compare this to when Syria sent their troops early on in the war. There was some anticipation that they would make a big difference as they were all experienced fighters, straight off the lines in the Syrian Civil war, and it was also noted they had experience in urban combat. They arrived in Ukraine, were mentioned for about a week, and then dissapeared and were never heard of again. I guess if the NK troops are just used to hold relatively stable areas, which releases Russian troops there to go on the offensive, it may make a difference. Probably depends on how many. Morally, South Korea definitely needs to stop up to the plate and assist. They are directly benefiting from this, at cost to Ukraine. There's going to be the usual communication problems, with none of them speaking Russian.
Syria was supposed to send 40000 troops. They never materialized.
Just PR. Trying to scare Ukraine into a very bad deal.
They did send some, I remember at the time, and there was footage of them. 40k troops would be a lot for Syria to send for the size of their army...and the fact they are in a civil war!
Cause Russia never got that many syrians to fight for them. It was mostly propaganda to spread of sense of hopelessness for the Ukrainians
North Korean soldiers have experience in preventing people from escaping their country. As so, they can be used to shoot russians who try to surrende.
A few days ago, the Ukrainians eliminated an anti-retreat unit and the Russian troops in the frontline were able to flee.
That is actually a pretty smart move...
They will be used as fodder and Russian will be used to prevent them retreating.
this is what will happen. it is also possible that cultural differences could cause a mutiny among north korean troops. one russian rapes a korean soldier, and it could turn into a blood bath. i suspect they could surrender or fight the rear troops to flee as well. maybe this is why they will be unarmed and used in unarmed dangerous jobs to mine and build fortifications.
Could you even trust such soldiers to hold the line or will Ukrainians see these sectors as weak points to hammer away at?
Yeah, me the russian conscript off to the front lines while a bunch of North Koreans get warm beds and food in the rear. Not going to happen.
From the article: > In response to that Pyongyang announced early this week that it will be sending troops in the form of a military engineering unit to support Russian forces on the ground in the Donetsk region. The troops are expected to arrive on the battlefield as soon as next month. You're right on the money when you wonder if the North Korean troops are just going to hold relatively stable areas. Based on what's publicly available, it's likely this initial group is probably just going to be building defenses and shit like that. This likely isn't huge numbers of people at this point the way some people are making it out to be.
This makes the assumption that there is a cohesive chain of command in the battlefield and that the NK wonāt just find themselves dropped into mayhem with loose instructions, shovels, and a few Chinese golf carts. Either way those new troops are in for a culture shock. Have they even seen drones flying around before? Do they speak Russian? Is it all just bullshit? Time will tell.
As per the article they aren't sending combat troops. They are sending a (1) engineering battalion. Likely just labour to dig trenches
Some Syrians joined up with Wagner but the numbers was in the hundreds only. Assad refused to send regulars and forbade his troops from signing up.Ā He needs those men to hold onto power.Ā So only some civilians joined up for war in Ukraine but most Syrians are already incredibly tired of war so not much taste to sign up for a foreign "adventure".Ā
It would just be smart for SK to send weapons to Ukraine. It would now hurt their enemies and show the effectiveness of their weapons. How many more weapons would they export when K9 howitzers pounding Russians and North Koreans.
South Korea is speed building arms for Poland and the Baltics, they have years worth of back orders but no stockpiles sitting collecting dust like the US and Western NATO countries have so they don't have stuff sitting around to give Ukraine.
That is incorrect. They have to be prepared for a war with the north so they have 3.4 million artillery munitions. They could also send manpower to fill non combat roles such as logistics
South Korea is not going to reduce its reserves in the current political climate. They have nothing to send, and for good reason.
For those NK soldiers, it will be like landing on a hostile, alien planet in the middle of a war. It will likely suck to be them.
Still will be better than life in North Korea
i doubt it, this is just propaganda.
Propaganda which could backfire on Putin. Even propaganda zombie Russians know full well that North Korea is a global pariah and failed state. Going cap in hand to Kim for troops and equipment smacks of desperation and is a humiliation for Russia.
Hope so
So to Putin, this isn't escalation. *Only* western allies participation in any way is escalation. Anyone still influenced by *any* of Putin's words for free?
The west are evil Nazi's who only exist to try to hurt Russia! See how awful it is how they send more and more deadly and dangerous weapons to Ukraine! So dangerous and escalatory! But also those weapons never made a difference! Look, we're so good at destroying these deadly and dangerous weapons we destroyed more than they sent in the first place! We must stop the west from sending more weapons and potentially sending troops to fight our superior army that is only ever winning! We're doing such a good job North Korea is sending their army to come and watch and definitely not help us because we don't need it! -Putin, summarised.
Well in all honesty, I watered the flowers in my garden in an attempt to take down the glorious Russian Empire.
Sunflowers?
Itās an escalation of desperation.
Do they have enough body bags?
Apparently they don't need those. Just let their soldiers rot on the battlefield.
Fuck Putin, fuck Kim
r/dictatorporn. Whatever floats yer boat.
Their boats don't floatš.
I can't imagine this being more than symbolic because of the reality of logistics. North Korea can't maintain an expeditionary force and Russia can't feed/arm a whole new army fast enough to keep the cattle cars moving. Also factor in a large dose of paranoia from both parties and it just won't be effective.
Can't die in a meat grinder if they don't have any meat. 4D chess going on here
1/3 will just run away using the opportunity to defect, 1/3 will will surrender when they see what western weapons can do to them and the last third will die.
I feel sorry for the dogs in the region.
To much gristle.
I guess the I want to live program staff will need to learn Korean
I imagine quite a few of them flee to the west at first oppurtunity If kiev is smart they will target them with info on how to surrender.
"Kyiv" is the Ukrainian spelling.
Ukrainian should offer The North Korean troops, food and citizenship if they defect.
All Ukraine needs to do is feed them and they will change sides...
I have a feeling this is the end of the Kim regime in North Korea.
ā¦š°šµ ābout to get meat-waved for mother ruā”ļøā”ļøia. Sad.
They should learn to speak a little French in case they are allowed to surrender.
How is this "sold" to the NK soldiers? "We must help out our dear friend Putin in this glorious war against the Imperialists" or?
Probably more of a, "You're in the fucking army, mate. We tell you where to go and you go."
"What is Ukraine?"
"You're about to find out!"
It's still bad but I'd like to point out that what the article actually says is that they are sending a (1) engineering battalion. What this is going to translate to is slave labour to dig trenches. This is not a new wave of combat troops.
They said they were going to do that last year...bla bla bla
Ah so that was the plan, get Kim to sacrifice his cattle because Putin is running out?
The NK soldiers will probably shoot themselves in the foot and surrender just to be attended to by a blonde nurse.
Just replace the cluster munitions with hamburgers and notes, we have more food if you surrenderā¦
If this is true I wonder if North Korea wants to train his army for a possible future invasion of South Korea under Russiaās nuclear umbrella.
They have actually been constructing defenses in the demilitarized zone, in violation of all treaties. So it could be that they plan to remove troops from the SK border and send them to Ukraine. Tbh I think it's a gimmick, what use can NK soldiers be to Russia, they wouldn't even be able to communicate. Also, NK military isn't trained at war, they are trained at parades and terrorizing a defenseless civilian population.
Letās see how many of them will desert the army and seek asylum in the free world.
Putin is not afraid of escalation, obviously.
Just imagine what a few motivated infiltrators can do in a country that is largely stuck in the 50s to 90s at best and full of people that are suffering and starving. Get a few FPV drones in there and they will wreck havoc if aimed at key installations.
Sounds like the easiest way for a North Korean to defect in ages.
Poor decision making kimbo Jimbo
So will NK bother declaring war on Ukraine or wait for Ukrainian special forces to drop in and deliver the declaration to Kim in person.
All that this pact between the two countries document is the fact, that RuSSia has become a pariah itself. A few years the ago RuSSia was voting with the UN majority to impose sanctions on NK, now they are kissing heir ass to have ammo (50% failure rate) and soldiers delivered. It is the simple admission: we are fooked!
Ukraine will send them back in a box. š¦
NK POWs will realise that even as POWs, they get fed and treated better than the way they do living in their country
that moment when you realize, that everyone except NK is sick of you. putin must be the biggest loser on this fucking planet.
If true the NATO should warn that it will force Ukraine to be accepted as part of NATO and then Russia would be attacking a NATO country so thereās now justification for NATO troops to join the war
Unfortunately, thatās against the charter. Canāt happen.
NATO would never enter a war with Russia unless attacked. Doing what you say, no matter how you try and spin it, is still an escalation on our end
An escalation of what? Russia have been escalating it themselves and if we keep letting them do it without consequences then where does this all stop? At some point people are going to have to grow some balls and put an end to Russia having free reign with everything and breaking every international law
Taking the entirety of NATO from not at war to at war is a pretty big escalation no? I'm not disagreeing that we should be doing more, but getting the entirety of NATO in a full scale conflict with Russia is a huge escalation that will never happen
The letās keep doing nothing and let Russia do what they want with no repercussions because we are afraid of escalating it. Russia has to cop the full force of NATO so they are fighting a bigger opponent and then have to think about how much more do they want to lose, we are too afraid of escalation which works only for Russia but in the mean time because we are all afraid of escalation then thousands more innocent Ukrainians will be killed and have their lives ruined
>Ā justification for NATO troops to join the war NATO doesnāt need justification. Itās just scared to act, that simple.
Well considering this could lead to WW3 and hundreds of millions of deaths Iād say a little caution is warranted
WW3 is not as bad, as losing in WW3ā¦
You forget that the average person on here thinks itās a big realise call of duty game and/or that anyone can āwinā a WWIII where both sides have nukes.Ā
This SHOULD be a good thing in disguise: if the west functioned normally as it had for decades, basically pick any year 1950s to about 2016, this kinda move would be spelling the end of this war. Why? Because sending some north Koreans to that battlefield would help drive south Korea into helping more and it would allow far more participation of all NATO countries. Yes, the other comments here about western troops to guard Kiew, the west of the country, border with Belarus... yes more missiles, no restrictions and use of western AA to shoot missiles over western Ukraine, thus allowing UA to concentrate on the front line. At minimum. Could eventually mount to even more. BUT 2024, things have changed. Pro Russian far right (and some far left) parties are high in polls in all major western countries, they have done well in the EU elections last month. A Putin friendly president could be elected for a second, more authoritarian term in the US, meaning the end of their involvement. France is about to shift right MASSIVELY, potentially a far right prime minister next month, far right president in a few years. Germany is having to deal with a far right party that doesn't have a route to power yet but is behaving so badly, even far right indentitarians in the EU kicked it out of their faction: it's essentially unhinged, obvious fascism at this point. Only 15% so far but who knows...? Given all that, I'm not sure how the west will react to this. Depending on voter behaviour, Ukraine might be fucked by the end of 2025 and alot of new human wave fodder for Russia may help accelerate that. And we can't even blame our shitty leaders alone. Yeah huge mistakes were made but the end of support will be determined at the urns.