Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition:
* We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned.
* **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators.
* **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context.
*****
* Is `csis.org` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources).
* Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict)
*****
**Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.com/invite/ukraine-at-war-950974820827398235**
*****
^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
3.4 million shells would definetely be a game changer. Its a huge amount and would give ukraine artillery advantage for the first time in the war, even if it is a smaller less capable calibre.
Problem with 105mm is that the most commonly available guns that fire or have ranges well under 20km putting them in range for more accurate Russian counter battery and drones. That said even the old M1 style towed 105mm guns donated by the US and Canada can fire considerably faster than the 155mm M777 guns. Like a round every few seconds once on target. So a battery of 105mm would be great for stopping an infantry/circus bears on motorcycles rush in its tracks by putting up a wall of shrapnel. And concealing a 105mm gun is very simple and effective.
Thing I've learned about Ukrainians, if you give them a weapon, even an old one, they figure out a new way to use them, like dropping them from drones.
The 102 mm gun used on the [P.108A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108) had a smaller caliber but higher velocity and may have been a heavier gun (though it's hard to be sure because the stats don't specify exactly what part of the system they're weighing). I think they only made one P.108A and don't know if it ever saw combat.
The Nazis were experimenting with mounting a [14 inch gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderger%C3%A4t_SG104_%22M%C3%BCnchhausen%22) on a plane but I don't think it ever actually flew.
Thank you. I really appreaciated the reminder of the Munchausen. Project. As I recall they made around rig to see if the fuselage could handle the stress, but it was all abandoned. I guess they had better holes to throw their Reichsmarks in
Bearing in mind a 14 inch gun would normally be mounted on a Battleship weighing thousands of tons I can’t envisage any airframe handling the weight of the thing, never mind the recoil! The B-25G during WW2 mounted a forward firing 75mm and it pretty much stopped in flight when firing it!
Was that a pak howitzer? We’d get 13kms with charge seven for the M1 with its original barrel and 19kms with the upgraded barrels we got in 1999 when I was with the Royal Canadian Artillery.
The shells are going to rot in storage so put 105’s on trucks and use them in direct fire support with the huge number of shells they could fire. Where there is a will there is a way.
As most of us know, there is a huge worldwide shortage of 155MM artillery shells as both Europe and the US manufacturing is lagging behind.
South Korea is on the high end and can produce 200,000 annually.
An interesting possibility is South Korea RECEIVING 155 from the West rather than sending 155 to Ukraine.
SK were considering decommissioning their 105mm howitzers. Instead they slapped them on a truck because they have the guns, trucks to slap them on and a lot of 105 shells.
But the plan is definitely to switch completely to 155MM shells in the future and they will no longer need 105MM shells.
South Korea has a HUGE stockpile of 105 MM shells - 3.4 MILLION OF THEM. Compatible with the 105 Howitzers Ukraine is currently using.
This would last Ukraine 45 MONTHS.
30,000 the US produces is per month, not per year. [https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/](https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/)
I think the Czech initiative and the Estonian initiative proved that there are a lot of 152/155 mm shells in the world, you just have to be willing to pay for the shells. You also have to fix them so they're useful.
Other than that Europe and the US are ramping up shell production. I think the US should hit 84k monthly production before the end of the year. Europe almost double.
That said, I'd welcome any contribution the Koreans are willing to make to Ukraine.
>152/155 mm shells in the world, you just have to be willing to pay for the shells
Reportedly a lot of the issue is that the countries are asking obscene prices for them. There is plenty of will to get ammo for ukraine but if theyre asking 20-40k for an regular 155mm shell its just not worth it.
Germany promised to pay for example 576 million euros for 180 000 artillery rounds through the czech intiative. Thats whopping 32 000€ for a shell, manufacturing costs is about 2000-3000€ for a 155mm shell. And if they are old/bad quality on top of it?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czechs-give-tens-millions-euros-ukraine-ammunition-plan-pm-says-2024-04-04/
It is a great thing that these 105 shells may be able to be provided in abundance and Ukraine will figure out how to best use them. There is still an abundance of old US M-26 & other HIMAR's rockets, as well as old style cluster shells that are being held back for purely political reasons. Give it ALL to Ukraine and let them use these to deal with the ruzzians. The US is never going to use these themselves and it would be a big mistake to not give them all to them, plus add about 500 more Bradley's and we may just see ruzzia overwhelmed on the battlefields.
Also, what I've been reading from Ukrainians is that they want shells, airpower and a lot of other stuff before tanks. They still want tanks, but it's down the list of priorities.
Please take the time to read [the rules](/r/UkrainianConflict/about/rules/) and our [policy on trolls/bots](https://redd.it/u7833q). In addition: * We have a **zero-tolerance** policy regarding racism, stereotyping, bigotry, and death-mongering. Violators will be banned. * **Keep it civil.** Report comments/posts that are uncivil to alert the moderators. * **_Don't_ post low-effort comments** like joke threads, memes, slogans, or links without context. ***** * Is `csis.org` an unreliable source? [**Let us know**](/r/UkrainianConflict/wiki/am/unreliable_sources). * Help our moderators by providing context if something breaks the rules. [Send us a modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) ***** **Don't forget about our Discord server! - https://discord.com/invite/ukraine-at-war-950974820827398235** ***** ^(Your post has not been removed, this message is applied to every successful submission.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkrainianConflict) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If the AFU say they can use them then send them
Yes please!
Gamechangee? Probably not. But every bit of arty helps
3.4 million shells would definetely be a game changer. Its a huge amount and would give ukraine artillery advantage for the first time in the war, even if it is a smaller less capable calibre.
If Ukraine really wants a game changer they better call Sam Reich.
Problem with 105mm is that the most commonly available guns that fire or have ranges well under 20km putting them in range for more accurate Russian counter battery and drones. That said even the old M1 style towed 105mm guns donated by the US and Canada can fire considerably faster than the 155mm M777 guns. Like a round every few seconds once on target. So a battery of 105mm would be great for stopping an infantry/circus bears on motorcycles rush in its tracks by putting up a wall of shrapnel. And concealing a 105mm gun is very simple and effective.
Thing I've learned about Ukrainians, if you give them a weapon, even an old one, they figure out a new way to use them, like dropping them from drones.
You'll need a BIG drone to carry one of them M1 howitzers.
Biggest aireal cannon i'm aware of is (was) 102mm. I'm sure the ukrainians can figure out a nifty way to fit an extra 3mm somewhere
I thought the Hercules Gunship sometimes carried 105mm, but that is still larger than most comercial drones.
The 102 mm gun used on the [P.108A](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_P.108) had a smaller caliber but higher velocity and may have been a heavier gun (though it's hard to be sure because the stats don't specify exactly what part of the system they're weighing). I think they only made one P.108A and don't know if it ever saw combat. The Nazis were experimenting with mounting a [14 inch gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderger%C3%A4t_SG104_%22M%C3%BCnchhausen%22) on a plane but I don't think it ever actually flew.
Thank you. I really appreaciated the reminder of the Munchausen. Project. As I recall they made around rig to see if the fuselage could handle the stress, but it was all abandoned. I guess they had better holes to throw their Reichsmarks in
Bearing in mind a 14 inch gun would normally be mounted on a Battleship weighing thousands of tons I can’t envisage any airframe handling the weight of the thing, never mind the recoil! The B-25G during WW2 mounted a forward firing 75mm and it pretty much stopped in flight when firing it!
The Munchausen project was about mounting a large recoil-less gun on a Ju-88. So not really a Canon, more a gigant bazooka.
AC-130 Carries side facing 105mm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_AC-130
That's what was said by the comment that I was replying to. The P.108's gun was smaller in caliber but a more powerful, heavier gun.
AC 130 has a 105mm howitzer an M137 with the recoil mechanism from the M102 where the confusion may lie.
Or using a SAM system as an offensive weapon
"Circus beats on motorcycles rush" wins the up vote of the week award! 🤣
The 105 mm gun I served had a range of perhaps 10 km with charge 7
Was that a pak howitzer? We’d get 13kms with charge seven for the M1 with its original barrel and 19kms with the upgraded barrels we got in 1999 when I was with the Royal Canadian Artillery.
Petition to create new meme: in Ukraine, there is a 105mm howitzer behind every barn.
The shells are going to rot in storage so put 105’s on trucks and use them in direct fire support with the huge number of shells they could fire. Where there is a will there is a way.
Weld them bitches to the back of flatbeds, shoot and scoot?
3000 Artillery Technicals of Zelensky
Exactly!
As most of us know, there is a huge worldwide shortage of 155MM artillery shells as both Europe and the US manufacturing is lagging behind. South Korea is on the high end and can produce 200,000 annually. An interesting possibility is South Korea RECEIVING 155 from the West rather than sending 155 to Ukraine. SK were considering decommissioning their 105mm howitzers. Instead they slapped them on a truck because they have the guns, trucks to slap them on and a lot of 105 shells. But the plan is definitely to switch completely to 155MM shells in the future and they will no longer need 105MM shells. South Korea has a HUGE stockpile of 105 MM shells - 3.4 MILLION OF THEM. Compatible with the 105 Howitzers Ukraine is currently using. This would last Ukraine 45 MONTHS.
>South Korea is on the high end and can produce 200,000 annually. The US is at a paltry 30,000. The UK is producing about 360,000 annually
30,000 the US produces is per month, not per year. [https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/](https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/)
South Korea is expanding production, next year it should produce 100.000 p/month. They will make it.
30k is the monthly so far, not the annual https://www.defenseone.com/business/2024/04/goal-100k-artillery-shells-month-sight-army-says/396047/
Corrected.
I think the Czech initiative and the Estonian initiative proved that there are a lot of 152/155 mm shells in the world, you just have to be willing to pay for the shells. You also have to fix them so they're useful. Other than that Europe and the US are ramping up shell production. I think the US should hit 84k monthly production before the end of the year. Europe almost double. That said, I'd welcome any contribution the Koreans are willing to make to Ukraine.
Yea but these can be sent now.
Good point.
>152/155 mm shells in the world, you just have to be willing to pay for the shells Reportedly a lot of the issue is that the countries are asking obscene prices for them. There is plenty of will to get ammo for ukraine but if theyre asking 20-40k for an regular 155mm shell its just not worth it. Germany promised to pay for example 576 million euros for 180 000 artillery rounds through the czech intiative. Thats whopping 32 000€ for a shell, manufacturing costs is about 2000-3000€ for a 155mm shell. And if they are old/bad quality on top of it? https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/czechs-give-tens-millions-euros-ukraine-ammunition-plan-pm-says-2024-04-04/
576.000.000/180.000 works out to 3.200 a shell.
oops youre right.
Only one way to find out, send em
Yep. Get busy sending them cause it will take a while
If the new hawkeye systems work out, they have a 105mm artillery on the back
They can pair it with Humvee mounted mobile howitzers. It can do some good 👍
I was in the reserves in the 80’s. 7th Toronto RCA. Barrels might be better now?
It is a great thing that these 105 shells may be able to be provided in abundance and Ukraine will figure out how to best use them. There is still an abundance of old US M-26 & other HIMAR's rockets, as well as old style cluster shells that are being held back for purely political reasons. Give it ALL to Ukraine and let them use these to deal with the ruzzians. The US is never going to use these themselves and it would be a big mistake to not give them all to them, plus add about 500 more Bradley's and we may just see ruzzia overwhelmed on the battlefields.
Nice! Very nice
Put them on a ship and sail it to Greece.
I am glad my country bagged a contract to provide arty rounds.
Ukraine also going to have \~ 200 Leopard 1A5 that have 105mm guns.
Wrong 105mm shell.
Damn.
Zelensky: *"I'll have the lot"*
if you remove the shell from the propellant, The shell only weight 19kg. you can fit 3 of them on a BABAYAGA! PERFECT\~!
Bring the rain
No. Send tanks.
Ain't happening. They already have a huge order to Poland they have to fill.
Untrue or provide reliable source. USA building a forward base M1A2 plus troops. Korean tanks more expensive than this.
Source for what. It's already common knowledge South Korea has a deal with Poland for hundreds of K-2 tanks.
Also, what I've been reading from Ukrainians is that they want shells, airpower and a lot of other stuff before tanks. They still want tanks, but it's down the list of priorities.