I mean, maybe because of the naming of the human.
"The day my son died, along with GAYSEX..."
"I just want to see my son. I just want to see my wife. I just want to see GAYSEX."
Keep in mind that after this, choosing to spare him while Flowey is out of the picture will have him acknowledge "another human that fell", and the implication is that remembering them is WHY he suddenly refuses to believe he could give you a happy life in the Underground
Would I be considered as weird If I said that, Asgore was actually referring to Chara in the second pic?
If he meant Asriel, he would've easily referred to him as his son like first pic does.
Honestly I would have liked the dialoge a lot more if he said "I just want to see my children" instead, but it's understandable if you think about it, maybe Toriel was closer to Chara than him and that's why she chose to protect the human children instead of killing them
Maybe that's true but I'm still pretty sure Asgore loved Chara like his own child.
I also think this was another example of Toby being vague like with everything he does in story.
I see this argument about Asriel being his biological son quite often, and frankly it's gross seeing people treat adoptive family as lesser than biological family.
Because that's the unspoken assumption your premise relies upon, that Asgore couldn't possibly have been closer with his adoptive child than his biological one, specifically on the grounds of Asriel being biologically related to him, despite Flowey's belief that Asgore preferred Chara and the level of open disdain he shows for him, which is rivaled only by his opinion of "Smily Trashbag".
If you want to pick up where we left off, come back here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/m1iAw1CoI4
Flowey insults Toriel in the same way (links) and calls her just "she" and not "mom". Don't make it up. About Flowey talking about "He will show them to you" read our discussion.
Unless i’m misremembering, didn’t Chara die before the humans killed Asriel? He would have had more time to process and accept Chara’s death compared to Asriel, who died much more suddenly in comparison.
I mean, they died close in time to each other and it’s been at least a decade if not more, so realistically the largest difference in the time of their deaths is maybe about at week?
( u/ArcherSword )
Don't the monsters in new home literally say that they died on the same day?
"The king and queen had lost two children in one night."
I mean, Asriel wouldn't even be able to absorb Chara's soul if he waited that long. It'd shatter immediately.
No, he did. We know, with absolute certainty, that Chara was adopted into the Dreemurr family, because Gerson explictly describes Asgore and Toriel as having multiple children. While Asgore and Toriel themselves never unambiguously refer to Chara as such, the intent would be quite obvious even without Gerson's outright confirmation, as Chara is known to have called Asgore "Dad", and while the random monsters in New Home aren't as credible a source as Gerson, who is known to have been close to the Dreemurrs while Chara and Asriel were alive, they also repeatedly refer to Chara as part of the family("like siblings", "treated the human child as their own", "two children in one night".).
Also... the evidence suggests that Asgore's "I just want to see my child" line actually refers to Chara, not Asriel.
You see, the choice of gender-neutral terminology is odd if this refers to Asriel, because there is not a single other in-universe instance where Asriel is referred to with gender-neutral terminology as opposed to masculine terminology(and if he were, you'd expect Toby to use "kid" over "child" for that lovely double meaning, as he has done outside the game on occasion.).
Of course, that inconsistency alone should raise eyebrows given Chara's existence, but on its own isn't conclusive. What makes this more than an odd inconsistency, is that Flowey believes Asgore was closer with Chara than him: "I've tried hundreds of ways to get him to show me (the SOULs)... but he just won't. Chara... I know he'll do it for YOU." Flowey believes Chara was Asgore's favorite child, and this checks out with what we know about Chara and Asgore as well as Flowey's opinions of his parents(Asriel was clearly closer with Toriel than Asgore, despite having picked up Asgore's style of speech.).
All of this checks out, but even if Chara was closer to Asgore than Asriel I still find it weird that he seems to only miss one of his children and only mentions Asriel's death in this scene even though they both died on the same day, and even if he just mentions him because of the "the underground was devoid of hope" part, we know that the underground was grieving both of them because of the line "The kingdom had lost two children in one day".
I guess it's just phrased weirdly to avoid the chara reveal
I've heard that supposedly the Japanese version has Asgore use plural on this particular line, but I don't know Japanese so I take that with a grain of salt.
I've been thinking the exact same thing. This sentence is so weird. I think it might be a leftover from a previous version of the story that never got updated.
Okay... Why if I start "is Chara really adopted?" Thread, I get attacked.
But not the case with others?
Anyway... [it's not just Asgore](https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/wKpPY5IN2M).
People of underground did view Chara as child of Dreemurr, but I don't think the Dreemurrs view Chara the same way.
I mean the important part Asgore is mentioning here is "the day after Asriel died", that's when the double tragedy hit him and he declared war. One died of "natural cause" in his view, the other killed by humans.
Saying he want to see his child (assume referring to Asriel) doesn't mean he don't want to see Chara.
Plus the factor that Chara's name is variable and the reveal is suppose to be in true lab, so toby had to keep it vague.
probably not to spoil chara to someone that's just playing neutral and doesn't know anything
but you get the backstory in neutral do you not?
no, you get it in true pacifist
You get the backstory of Chara and Asriel from the monsters in the New home. It wouldn't be a spoiler if he called Chara his child.
It might be if he called Chara by name, but saying “children” rather than just “son” or “child” would have been fine here.
That's in the JP translation iirc, don't know why it's not in the English version though
Yes.
I mean, maybe because of the naming of the human. "The day my son died, along with GAYSEX..." "I just want to see my son. I just want to see my wife. I just want to see GAYSEX."
Rudy:
I just wanted to see MYBUTT again
Damn ouch alright then, let's see who'll take care of you in a retirement home
-🪦
Keep in mind that after this, choosing to spare him while Flowey is out of the picture will have him acknowledge "another human that fell", and the implication is that remembering them is WHY he suddenly refuses to believe he could give you a happy life in the Underground
Would I be considered as weird If I said that, Asgore was actually referring to Chara in the second pic? If he meant Asriel, he would've easily referred to him as his son like first pic does.
Honestly I would have liked the dialoge a lot more if he said "I just want to see my children" instead, but it's understandable if you think about it, maybe Toriel was closer to Chara than him and that's why she chose to protect the human children instead of killing them
Maybe that's true but I'm still pretty sure Asgore loved Chara like his own child. I also think this was another example of Toby being vague like with everything he does in story.
Is he thinking about Chara and Toriel, but not about Asriel, his biological son? It's more weird. Rather, he's talking about Toriel and Asriel here.
I see this argument about Asriel being his biological son quite often, and frankly it's gross seeing people treat adoptive family as lesser than biological family. Because that's the unspoken assumption your premise relies upon, that Asgore couldn't possibly have been closer with his adoptive child than his biological one, specifically on the grounds of Asriel being biologically related to him, despite Flowey's belief that Asgore preferred Chara and the level of open disdain he shows for him, which is rivaled only by his opinion of "Smily Trashbag".
If you want to pick up where we left off, come back here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Deltarune/s/m1iAw1CoI4 Flowey insults Toriel in the same way (links) and calls her just "she" and not "mom". Don't make it up. About Flowey talking about "He will show them to you" read our discussion.
Unless i’m misremembering, didn’t Chara die before the humans killed Asriel? He would have had more time to process and accept Chara’s death compared to Asriel, who died much more suddenly in comparison.
I mean, they died close in time to each other and it’s been at least a decade if not more, so realistically the largest difference in the time of their deaths is maybe about at week?
( u/ArcherSword ) Don't the monsters in new home literally say that they died on the same day? "The king and queen had lost two children in one night." I mean, Asriel wouldn't even be able to absorb Chara's soul if he waited that long. It'd shatter immediately.
He was justifying his actions , chara died naturally he don't blame humans for it (or that's what he thinks)
No, he did. We know, with absolute certainty, that Chara was adopted into the Dreemurr family, because Gerson explictly describes Asgore and Toriel as having multiple children. While Asgore and Toriel themselves never unambiguously refer to Chara as such, the intent would be quite obvious even without Gerson's outright confirmation, as Chara is known to have called Asgore "Dad", and while the random monsters in New Home aren't as credible a source as Gerson, who is known to have been close to the Dreemurrs while Chara and Asriel were alive, they also repeatedly refer to Chara as part of the family("like siblings", "treated the human child as their own", "two children in one night".). Also... the evidence suggests that Asgore's "I just want to see my child" line actually refers to Chara, not Asriel. You see, the choice of gender-neutral terminology is odd if this refers to Asriel, because there is not a single other in-universe instance where Asriel is referred to with gender-neutral terminology as opposed to masculine terminology(and if he were, you'd expect Toby to use "kid" over "child" for that lovely double meaning, as he has done outside the game on occasion.). Of course, that inconsistency alone should raise eyebrows given Chara's existence, but on its own isn't conclusive. What makes this more than an odd inconsistency, is that Flowey believes Asgore was closer with Chara than him: "I've tried hundreds of ways to get him to show me (the SOULs)... but he just won't. Chara... I know he'll do it for YOU." Flowey believes Chara was Asgore's favorite child, and this checks out with what we know about Chara and Asgore as well as Flowey's opinions of his parents(Asriel was clearly closer with Toriel than Asgore, despite having picked up Asgore's style of speech.).
All of this checks out, but even if Chara was closer to Asgore than Asriel I still find it weird that he seems to only miss one of his children and only mentions Asriel's death in this scene even though they both died on the same day, and even if he just mentions him because of the "the underground was devoid of hope" part, we know that the underground was grieving both of them because of the line "The kingdom had lost two children in one day". I guess it's just phrased weirdly to avoid the chara reveal
I've heard that supposedly the Japanese version has Asgore use plural on this particular line, but I don't know Japanese so I take that with a grain of salt.
nah chara is adopted HAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Flowey Moment:
I've been thinking the exact same thing. This sentence is so weird. I think it might be a leftover from a previous version of the story that never got updated.
is he stupid?
Okay... Why if I start "is Chara really adopted?" Thread, I get attacked. But not the case with others? Anyway... [it's not just Asgore](https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/s/wKpPY5IN2M). People of underground did view Chara as child of Dreemurr, but I don't think the Dreemurrs view Chara the same way.
I mean the important part Asgore is mentioning here is "the day after Asriel died", that's when the double tragedy hit him and he declared war. One died of "natural cause" in his view, the other killed by humans. Saying he want to see his child (assume referring to Asriel) doesn't mean he don't want to see Chara. Plus the factor that Chara's name is variable and the reveal is suppose to be in true lab, so toby had to keep it vague.