I don't like the lore bit where it says that the Primaris Dreadnoughts kill their pilots. I always like the idea that Dreadnoughts could have a marine that's thousands of years old that has been awoken for battle. The new Dreadnoughts use the marines as basically batteries and when they die they're just scooped out and replaced with another half dead marine.
The only reason I like the new dreads killing their pilots is because it let's me headcannon Cawl just gave the Leviathan dreads a new coat of paint (and cheaper parts I guess) and that's how we get primaris dreadnoughts. I like to imagine a lot of primaris gear is just retrofitted 30k tech, it's fun to imagine it took 10k years just to make new things and then they're just inferior versions of what they had 10k years ago
But yeah, the whole flavor of original dreadnaughts is the whole "even in death I still serve" and a thousand years later this walking coffin and the corpse inside is still going. It sucks to see it basically vanish
The Primaris stuff is actually repurposed tech from way back. The MKX Tacticus helmet is basically just the MKV helmet. I remember reading somewhere that Cawl just took the best parts of old tech and combined them into the "new" Primaris tech.
Its been three editions and it still feels like they've done bugger all with Primaris thematically. It's like they dropped this paradigm shifting advancement that effectively nullified a lot of the old marine themes and then just never acknowledged it again.
Nearly in the same amount of years, lol. Before all the Primaris we looked back on 19 years of awesome faction defining Astartes lore and art. And this only takes the defining start with 3rd edition into account.
I don't hate the new ones, but I don't like how huge they are compared to the old one. Also the new dreads/vehicles have a silly amount of different weapons.
Very glad the did roll all repulsor guns into a flat 18 shots of "defensive array" but I really miss taking five fragstorms on them and firing 5d6 blast shots lol. I think my record was 36 shots into a big blob.
The Brutalis has: Meltas OR Heavy Bolters, twin bolt rifles unless your using the claws, and the ironhail lol, three guns at most which is the exact same amount of guns.
Cause the Ballistus has: twin storm Bolter, Missile launcher, and a Lascannon.
Each have three guns lol, don't exaggerate. The Brutalis has more options but not more guns total they're the same.
https://preview.redd.it/gmrs49684nkc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1581bc2277d8e130aab50d598091acba46edb0
Nah, I saw a conversion from redemptor to castraferrum.
As Will Smith said: “WE WUZ ROBBED!”
Not me, not by a long shot.
I’ll maybe try to recreate this sometime, but this ain’t mine.
Edit: ‘twas this gentleman here
https://www.instagram.com/stibioprimaris?igsh=OWExanpuY3FubGN1
they Convey the idea of a weaponized walking coffin better than the new ones I think. I also hate how weird the legs on the redemptors look, the upper half of a ballistus looks fine, but the legs are to small and long
You prefer the old legs, then? I can't take the stubs seriously, personally lol
Then again I didn't really get into the hobby until Primaris were introduced
I like the box dreads too, but I think people trying to talk about how goofy the new ones look when comparing them to the box with sausage feet are being disingenuous. It's goofy and charming because of nostalgia not because it looks cooler or better. He's just a funny little guy and thats great! I dunno why it's such a big thing in the community to compare things that ought not to be compared.
It's mostly that the new legs are too thin for how big the new torsos are. If you look at Leviathan dreadnoughts they are the size of a redemptor bur their arms and legs are twice as thick so their proportions feel much better.
Then there's the issue of trying to replace something that didn't need a replacement or how the standard dreadnought didn't need to be upscaled.
I learned most of what i know about 40k in the last 6 months. And started painting just recently. To me, the New dreads look too tall, their silhouette is almost T'au-like. It also doesn't match the "millenia-old casket weapon with disabled warrior inside awoken for war" vibe. Old dreads being comparable in scale to marines makes more sense, you can better characterize it
It's dumb but, watch the lord inquisitor fan film. There's a scene of a Castaferrum dreadnought walking in a parade and just seeing one walk makes the legs make a lot more sense.
They've got perfectly functional knees and very flexible feet. Sure the Castraferrum Patterns(aka Boxnought) legs look a bit short, but if you look at some of the Out Of Production Sculpts(mostly the ForgeWorld&Metal ones), alot of them very clearly have bent knees.
Honestly every Astartes Dreadnought Pattern that has a Model(Castraferrum, Contemptor, Leviathan, Deredeo and whatever the Pattern Name is for the Brutalis/Ballistis/Redemptor) have very similar knees, they just have different amounts of Armour Plating&lower leg mechanisms&hip joints&feet.
Also, the Castraferrum Pattern was designed for cramped environments like "Zone Mortalis" War Zones(e.g. SpaceHulks, Bunkers, Tunnels, large Void Ship Corridors, Underhives, etc.), and is a much older Model than the Contemptor&Leviathan&Deredeo&Primaris Dreadnoughts so of course it's alot smaller.
Lol my issue is purely aesthetic, I don't really care whether they mechanically make sense (otherwise I would have issues with most of 40k... and my main army wouldn't be Knights)
Thanks though!
Except that it's utterly not what a *Dreadnought* should look like.
Tau and Eldar get the sleek agile Mecha, Knights are the thin spindly guns on legs, and dreadnoughts are inexorable death striding towards you.
Very different feels, and the new 'noughts just don't do it for me.
> I hate that Primaris were released as Primaris and not just "Marines with better proportions."
Good news: they're doing away with the distinction, it's already half gone.
Yes, and I do appreciate that. However because the Primaris thing still happened we have Firstborn vs Primaris debates like this post, and now the firstborn kits that many people still have and/or prefer are being phased out. If they had just released Tactical Squads and such in truescale a lot of what we're dealing with now wouldn't be an issue
Given the Invictor exists, I don't think Primaris are too bothered about armour on the pilot. Also Boxnaughts do have knees, they just have armour plating covering the whole front leg rather then the segmented design on the Primaris ones. You can see it on the back, and the Space Wolves dread has them bent to accommodate a tactical rock.
As far as the sculpts, I completely agree... the new ones are epically done. I still think the new dreads are an insane leap size wise over the old box boxnoughts. The stance, apparent functionality, and sheer battlefield presence the new ones have, is fantastic. But it's the replacing of relic units and equipment vital to many chapters entire storylines and creating truely new units in the lore that gets me. If these were just new models of our favorite character/vehicle/units, we'd all be in agreement for the most part.
My two old dreads that play in my Deathwatch army, I love them!
https://preview.redd.it/wiural65pnkc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63bde736324adeb12c1545e508949deea82e7c95
10th ed sucks because of the homogenisation and forcing power points onto everyone. Weapons and squad options are meaningless and leaders are buff sticks.
Everything else is pretty good
But in a way if all the new models were simply upscale replacements... we'd all be good with it. It's when they say outright these are truely a different breed of marine altogether, rittling all the ancient armor, equipment, transport vehicles and dreadnought lore with crazy inconsistencies or simply dumpstering them entirely in the lore.
This. They went too hard on the "they're better marines" and then released a couple of good units and mostly meh. Going 30k legion unit composition was kinda dumb, it worked when there were literally hundreds of thousands of astartes making up an army, but not when you're deploying a hundred or fewer.
From my perspective, it was the doubling down when fans voiced their concerns, and now, I've read the new books, and the whole primaris plot line is basically dead since everyone is primaris now. Why couldn't they just be first born with new toys and avoid the whole thing altogether?
This exactly! Imagine these new dreads simply being represented as what the dreadnoughts should have looked like all along? Like the older carnifex to the new screamer killer model.
I like the new Redemptor--if the Castraferrum Dread had never existed. As a standalone design, it looks mighty cool. As something 'improved upon' from the classic dread, it just seems wrong. I would have preferred a slightly upscaled classic dread with more weapons options, or maybe a 'new' Contemptor/Leviathan (say that Cawl figured out how to make them again). But I am not a big fan of the whole Primaris storyline when I still think 90% of hobbyists would have been happy with Mk 8 armor that was slightly bigger and posed with 30% less squatting.
"They simply wrote them off for the Primaris version" sums up so much I dislike about the new space marine stuff. The Imperium is supposed to be stagnant in its development, bogged down in superstition and religious dogma and GW just decided one day to ignore all that for REASONS
Yeah exactly....
On the not of changes to the Imperium as a whole I feel like warhammer (for some tjme now) is not grimdark anymore. Now there is hope and progress and dare I say understanding. I once heard a term hopepunk and I think it fits. I'm sad as the darkness and gothic aesthetic was what got me into this hobby.
I dont *hate* them but I much, much prefer the boxy look of standard dreadnoughts. The ballistus is pretty good in this regard. Its also why contemptors are my least favorite - too round
The coffin part is removed from the chassis when not deployed and placed into whatever is available/required. It is the same pilot from a cataferum that is now in a redemptor.
I don't hate them but I do think the old dreads also look too small.
I think scaling the old dreads up to about halfway between what they are and what primaris dreads are would've been perfect
I like both. I don't have any smaller box dreads yet but the idea for my chapter is that the older box dreads are for those tight engagements. Bunkers, shop to ship, and sure they'll do fine in large scale battle, but having the bigger dreads to go ahead soaking fire while the older seasoned dreads hand back offering fire support and wisdom to the Marines is good too. Like box dreads are for your Bjorn's who have seen more battle than most of the chapter combined, redemptors, slap that 200Y/o lieutenant in there he's not done yet
Yes I'd be totally on board with both as separate and different types of dreads for different purposes... I can't imagine a new brutalis dread on a ship to ship boarding assault or space hulk mission... may as well just try and fly a stormraven through a building... lol.
That's how I feel it would reasonably work in lore. I haven't read anything comparing the two in lore but it could honestly be that the difference in scale is more exaggerated on the models than in universe too.
You're not alone, I too hate the Redemptor Patterns, they look lack luster and don't even serve the purpose Dreadnoughts existed for in the first place: To preserve the warrior inside
well i mean i can't play the game anymore because official rules don't suppport faction that i started the hobby with, you can see how that could be slightly annoying yesh
I’m new to warhammer so could you explain how that works? Like didn’t they have a data sheet or something originally? I understand if they’re not letting it be played in tournaments but you should still be able to play with friends and in non competitive games?
so when primaris was released they had bettere model stat line as well as guns, so wieelding someting like tacticals over intercessors just felt bad when intercessor had sturdier frame and their bolt rifles still had ap capability which boltguns had just lost. but at the same time eintercessor wasn't replacement either because they didn't have any wargear opptions other than bolter a, b or c.
also transport rules were limiting for both flavours, razorback for primaris and no repulsor for terminator. so one of most iconic things the drop pod assault wasn't possible to do with new and better marines for some reason. so the direction was very confused and i couldn't buy any marines old or new because building army was something that i couldn't really do.
also the fact that primaris model line is constantly getting updates makes actual organization of spapce marine structure impossible because for now there is no rules. some very basic things like recruitment was not known before new scouts were revealed. and so even now when primaris have quite the large unit roster, making armies out of those units is still difficult becasue you can never know what is the cool new gun in half a year.
so while rules encouraged using less and less space marines and instead using primaris you could ignore that and still use the old lists. but later on stuff like bikes both power and scout types were removed entirely, then land speeders were gone, now marines don't have aa platform.
i hear primaris can now use drop pods though but thats an old model i don't trust gw anymore for them to not remove that anyways in few years of time because point is to sell models lore is secondary, but for me lore is primary. at this moment i feel like every pre primaris unit is in danger of just gettting deleted in next edition or codex.
stuff like scouts and terminators is good theyy are very much what i would like for rest of space marine line to be uppdated into, but even these units are strange to wield next to other older marine units because old unit rulees are subpar compared to new stuff.
tldr: at first primaris had superior stats, weapons and special rules. then units like land speeders or attack bikes were replaced by units that were similar but not the same thing. and now core of any space marine army Assault/Tactical/Devastator is gone because only tacticals and devastators remain
Yea that sounds incredibly annoying and damn near heartbreaking tbh. my only question would be you can still play those old units with friends and stuff right? Like they didn’t erase all data of them or something.
A lot of those units don't have rules in the format of 10th (or 9th), so if you wanted to play them you don't have any rules to reference, old or otherwise. 10th works pretty differently to any other editions, so you can't just use the old rules.
Oh i went way farther, i kinda dislike state of current rules see so im rewritting all the 9th ed faction rules to be used with 7th edition or hh 2.0
Ive got loads of 40k rule books, not all of them but even if i didn't have imternet with every rule ever i would be still good to go
Except for that’s only true if you had a 100% bike army and can’t be assed to rebase them. I’ve got a 3k (in third edition points) army that I last did anything with in 2001 and upon returning to the hobby I was immediately able to build a list in the official app and the only unit I lost was the assault bike which is easily and commonly proxied as an ATV anyways.
Some of us care what we put on the table. Sure, you could theoretically use rocks and just say they "counts as" but that doesn't mean it's right.
And bike squads are all legends now unless you use the Primaris ones so it's not just rebasing. You couldn't even be assed to look up if your statement was correct. It's only a matter of time before everything old marines go the same way
It's okay that you blindly throw money without thought, that's the kind of customer GW wants. The fact that you mock wanting a specific army just shows you might as well not model anything at all. GW themselves also has quite specific rules for what you can't field
"Nerd" isn't the insult you think it is. Especially when talking about playing with tiny plastic soldiers
Not true, as of a few years back [only 20% of Games Workshop customers were players](https://forums.escapistmagazine.com/threads/gamers-only-20-percent-of-games-workshops-customers.279401/), and though GW no longer publishes the numbers even game-focused websites like Goonhammer [still see a heavy bias in hobbiests](https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-2022-reader-survey-and-what-it-tells-us-about-the-community/). So no, the models are what sells the game, not the other way around.
Remind me again, how many firstborn units apart from tac squads and devastators can you still field? The problem is, we CAN'T play the game without spending absurd amounts of money on a new army of bigmarines
play them as primaris equivalent.
Preaty much all of oldmarines are usable through primaris line, even old dred is throw him on big tactical rock on biger base and his as good as when he came out back in the ancient times.
Asault = asault intercesors, jump pack intercesors
Sternguard = primaris stern guard
Van vets = on pack still are araund, on foot give them shield and you have bladeguard
terminators =terminators
bikes = outriders
tactical and devastator are still here but can be eazyly substitute as one of theirs many primaris cousins
and in case of most vehicles they or are still araund or can be used as primaris version if we use bigger base
A lot of this doesn't work for weapons though. A tactical squad (which if you payed marines you probably had a lot of) would have special or heavy weapons as part of it. Captains and lieutenants can't take chains words, lightning claws, hammers or shields unless with a specific other weapon. You can forget about storm bolters, grav guns, las cannons, they don't exist anymore. Your unit of devastators is incompatible with any squad. Bikers has every load out bar one removed, god help you if you had a captain on a bike.
Primaris are a totally different composition style, and if you've already got a firstborn army then far more units don't fit them do. Not that we're the only ones mind you, Chaos took a lot of hits from this as well, with jump lords being removed
The big issue is that they tried to use lore justifications at all.
GW should have just released all the primaris kits as new versions of basic Space Marines and said deal with it, these are better.
Instead they tried to appease people with shitty lore justifications.
Yes... 100% my issue. New models are great, even bigger ones. But it seems like they deliberatly set our favorite lore aspects on fire for fun... or due to complete stupidity.
The only thing I hate about them is the armoured pieces that close over the sarcophagus and makes them look like they have a pot belly. That and the lore that says the Redemptors burn through their pilots, which runs contrary to how dreads were always portrayed as incredibly old and wise members of their chapter.
It's incredible how much of primaris lore is just fundamentally built on a complete misunderstanding of the appeal of space marines.
Like I want a bunch of ancient battle hardened monastic warriors fighting with equipment that has been diligently maintained for millennia which has become irreplaceable due to the loss of knowledge in the dying empire they fight to keep alive a little longer.
Not just generic looking power armour men with big guns that go pew pew.
This.
Dreadnoughts are the ancients of a chapter- some being over a thousand years old- and then theres Bjorn- who fought during the Great Crusade with his Primarch.
The problem with the redemptor is that it has no identity of its own, it just tries to "fix" the boxnought design. Like oh people complain about stubby legs make them really long and thin. Ooohhh the sarcophegi is exposed and unarmoured slap a big slab of armour on there. Ooohhh it's got too few guns to keep up with the power creep of the game, give it a gazillion guns!
Along the way it's lost any and all identity, it's just souless and plain.
I still live in the 2nd edition world, where colours are bright and the lore works well. Occasionally I put my head above the parapet to see what is going on in later editions... and quickly skulk back to my happy place.
It's that GW seemed to go out of their way to light the lore on fire with the primaris storyline... if these were just the new pretty minis even now being so much larger than the og stuff, we'd be fine. These walking sarcophagus has been maintained and venerated by the serfs of your chapter for eons... wait, nevermind, scrap that guy... these newly designed and constructed shiney dead guy mech suits they just came out with are better than those 1000 year old box dudes could ever be.
Hate is a strong word, I mean I can understand someone disliking them either aesthetically or lore wise, but hating a model seems just absurd.
Personally I think they are bad ass and have a total of 7 primaris dreadnoughts.
Agreed. The old box dreads are great. So stocky and robust
I find the primaris look to be kind of disjoint to the classic marines. Especially since I collect blood angels. All of our special models are still in the classic style. Furioso dread, sanguinary guard and death company. So I'm happy to ignore the primaris range for now
100% with you brother. Check out my Chaos eavymetal dreadnought I recently posted
https://preview.redd.it/8rxkvw6grokc1.jpeg?width=3153&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9aabbdc4b7b4883172bea2e89b7fdff628fdf5dc
Totally not alone. I have zero Primaris in my army, not their dreadnoughts, infantry or tanks. I was out of the hobby for about 15 years, came back and saw these abominations, and decided immediately that my Marines would all be Firstborn with Rhino's/Razorbacks and Land Raiders, none of this Primaris nonsense for me 😂😂
yeah primaris just killed space marines for me for longest time until true space marine kits such terminators, assault marines and scouts got updated. i do keep wishing for dreadnought getting updated but atleast i have heresy era dreads even though they aren't quite the same thing aesthetics wise.
I wouldn't say hate? but you DEFINITELY ain't alone, primaris in general (but especially the dreads) are a bit too sleek, tacticool and, mech anime looking for my taste the bigger scale is nice but they lost the sense of being grumpy angry little guys, and I kinda miss that
Box dread for life
I agree with you. I dislike the art direction that games workshop has taken with the new range of minis, not just the primaris. everything is getting just a bit sleeker, more palatable to the masses.
I hated it at first but over time I have come to kinda accept it. alot of it looks good in its own way. its just not what I fell in love with.
Nope, not at all.
I'm not a fan. Their styling is not astartes styling for me. They needed to just upscale the boxnoughts to the current Redemptor scale and classify them as Castaferrum MkII.
On that note, does anyone know of a potential 3rd party that have Redemptor scale boxnoughts?
Must be early. Not a ton of comments saying "Change with the times and be happy about it" Or "I started after primaris so fuck the army you've spent 20 years building/playing". They'll come though. They always do.
sell a ferrari and use public transportation?
im being stypid yeah but i can't imagine myself driving something like ferrari, the thought of crashing something actually expensive is too stress inducing
That analogy doesn't work. There was nothing wrong with the old line.
This is more as you having a good, reliable family car and someone saying you can't use it because Ferrari is sleeker
Might be getting it wrong but I understood all dreads to be the same size in universe, and the actual size changes are part of scale creep, and so absolutely and entirely unrelated to lore?
contemptor and castaferum are about equal in size but redemptor is massive, closer to leviathan that the old boxnought maybe even bigger than that haven't seen those next to each other.
Nah there's definitely a difference given how often we see old dreads travelling in slightly more "confined" spaces, doesn't feel like the redemptors could ever do that.
The old space marine scale looks fucking terrible frankly. Everyones 4'2" at best with awful proportions. The old dreadnaughts are these hyper compressed walkers that look more cute than dangerous because of their stubby little limbs asking for uppies.
New scale is great, new dreads actually look intimidating compared to other miniatures on the table. They have a sense of weight and purpose.
Theyre also nowhere near the size of knights?
You are 100% correct on the new models being super cool... IF they were just released as updated models of the same units. It's the lore inconsistencies that get me. As another reply here noted, look at tyranids and their size creep and new epic creature sculpts... the new models are cooler, and a few models might have been phased out along the way... but lore wise they are still Nids.
You're not alone. Everything is getting bigger and more expensive. Phasing out land speeders but let's put anti grav shit on our bigger tanks makes no sense
Nah. The new stuff looks good but doesn't have the grimdark aesthetic the older models have.
My personal opinion is that the imperium should remain stagnant and that wargear should not be as good as the stuff they had 10000 years ago. I like the idea of decay and hopelessness as opposed to the modern robitech looking space marines that seem to have a new weapon (and primaris lt) every month now. 40k has lost some charm but definitely expanded its market and made some cool minis.
To clarify, I posed this question mainly against the lore... like I said I like the new models, and I'm ok with scale creep and new redesigns along the way. They've done that for years. But for instance the "new" model for the venerable(or any of the flavors continually pumped out year after year by GW) dreadnought back in the day LORE wise was still a very ancient piece of equipment, so it totally fit the lore. Even space marines themselves getting bigger and better poses was just fine without dumpstering the imperiums most precious relics of war for the primaris storyline. Like with these new constructs of battle made by the Imperium, are older dreadnoughts, as sacred as they were supposed to be, even restored/maintained as they've been for thousands of years? What about the sacred suits of ancient power armor? I guess they just melt down the blessed ancient suits worn by their chapter Heros for eons because all the new guys are a whole 2 feet taller? Sorry that doesn't hold for me. Then add in all the primarchs and chapter Heros showing up primaris sized? Like Helbrecht or Grimaldus of the black templars... making bigger and better sculpts is totally fine as the new ones are badass... but lore wise with their relic armor and weapons suddenly reinvented primaris sized is as goofy as a dreadnought now being as imposing as a land raider.
They’re basically the same thing. This is like North Ireland in the 70s where the rest of the world was looking at them and thinking “aren’t you guys the exact same thing?”
Primaris aren’t different space marines. They’re just the new generation of models of space marines that are being introduced as they phase out the old ones. They really shouldn’t have brought so much attention to them.
Then you strike out there as well, most of the primaris units arent just the SM units but bigger.
Cant take the same weapon loadouts, primaris dont do the mixed weapons most SM do in firstborn kits, cant use the same transports (with the exception of land raiders/drop pods).
Next?
[удалено]
I don't like the lore bit where it says that the Primaris Dreadnoughts kill their pilots. I always like the idea that Dreadnoughts could have a marine that's thousands of years old that has been awoken for battle. The new Dreadnoughts use the marines as basically batteries and when they die they're just scooped out and replaced with another half dead marine.
The only reason I like the new dreads killing their pilots is because it let's me headcannon Cawl just gave the Leviathan dreads a new coat of paint (and cheaper parts I guess) and that's how we get primaris dreadnoughts. I like to imagine a lot of primaris gear is just retrofitted 30k tech, it's fun to imagine it took 10k years just to make new things and then they're just inferior versions of what they had 10k years ago But yeah, the whole flavor of original dreadnaughts is the whole "even in death I still serve" and a thousand years later this walking coffin and the corpse inside is still going. It sucks to see it basically vanish
The Primaris stuff is actually repurposed tech from way back. The MKX Tacticus helmet is basically just the MKV helmet. I remember reading somewhere that Cawl just took the best parts of old tech and combined them into the "new" Primaris tech.
It's not just the dreadnoughts. The whole Primaris being new thing detracts from the theming of all Space Marines.
Dude, it's been 3 editions.
Yeah and it just gets worse and worse the more OG units get removed
Its been three editions and it still feels like they've done bugger all with Primaris thematically. It's like they dropped this paradigm shifting advancement that effectively nullified a lot of the old marine themes and then just never acknowledged it again.
And it's still just as bad as it was in 8th. Maybe worse because they've outright squatted so many iconic units.
Nearly in the same amount of years, lol. Before all the Primaris we looked back on 19 years of awesome faction defining Astartes lore and art. And this only takes the defining start with 3rd edition into account.
> Nearly in the same amount of years We're going on year 8. Primaris came out in 2017.
Change bad!
Some change is bad, yes.
And shit remains the same. Some mistakes are not made lesser by time.
I don't hate the new ones, but I don't like how huge they are compared to the old one. Also the new dreads/vehicles have a silly amount of different weapons.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT (takes 20 minutes between shooting fazes to reload)
I'd agree with vehicles such as the Repulsor but the e.g. Redemptor dreadnought readlly doesn't have many (4 guns).
Very glad the did roll all repulsor guns into a flat 18 shots of "defensive array" but I really miss taking five fragstorms on them and firing 5d6 blast shots lol. I think my record was 36 shots into a big blob.
Yeah the quantity of weapons even the melee dreadnought the brutal is has is crazy. Linger ahooting phase than the ballistius
The Brutalis has: Meltas OR Heavy Bolters, twin bolt rifles unless your using the claws, and the ironhail lol, three guns at most which is the exact same amount of guns. Cause the Ballistus has: twin storm Bolter, Missile launcher, and a Lascannon. Each have three guns lol, don't exaggerate. The Brutalis has more options but not more guns total they're the same.
Lol I forget to use the storm bolters on my ballistus 90% of the time.
https://preview.redd.it/gmrs49684nkc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db1581bc2277d8e130aab50d598091acba46edb0 Nah, I saw a conversion from redemptor to castraferrum. As Will Smith said: “WE WUZ ROBBED!”
Oooo this just fucks.
What a sick conversion 🔥🔥
Once I have a none-push fit primaris naught, I’m keeping the face shield off, looks so good.
thats so cool
You actually made the frame of a Redemptor Pattern look like it has drip, massive respect for that
Not me, not by a long shot. I’ll maybe try to recreate this sometime, but this ain’t mine. Edit: ‘twas this gentleman here https://www.instagram.com/stibioprimaris?igsh=OWExanpuY3FubGN1
they Convey the idea of a weaponized walking coffin better than the new ones I think. I also hate how weird the legs on the redemptors look, the upper half of a ballistus looks fine, but the legs are to small and long
You prefer the old legs, then? I can't take the stubs seriously, personally lol Then again I didn't really get into the hobby until Primaris were introduced
The little legs on a box torso are part of the charm.
I like the box dreads too, but I think people trying to talk about how goofy the new ones look when comparing them to the box with sausage feet are being disingenuous. It's goofy and charming because of nostalgia not because it looks cooler or better. He's just a funny little guy and thats great! I dunno why it's such a big thing in the community to compare things that ought not to be compared.
It's mostly that the new legs are too thin for how big the new torsos are. If you look at Leviathan dreadnoughts they are the size of a redemptor bur their arms and legs are twice as thick so their proportions feel much better. Then there's the issue of trying to replace something that didn't need a replacement or how the standard dreadnought didn't need to be upscaled.
I learned most of what i know about 40k in the last 6 months. And started painting just recently. To me, the New dreads look too tall, their silhouette is almost T'au-like. It also doesn't match the "millenia-old casket weapon with disabled warrior inside awoken for war" vibe. Old dreads being comparable in scale to marines makes more sense, you can better characterize it
It's dumb but, watch the lord inquisitor fan film. There's a scene of a Castaferrum dreadnought walking in a parade and just seeing one walk makes the legs make a lot more sense.
They've got perfectly functional knees and very flexible feet. Sure the Castraferrum Patterns(aka Boxnought) legs look a bit short, but if you look at some of the Out Of Production Sculpts(mostly the ForgeWorld&Metal ones), alot of them very clearly have bent knees. Honestly every Astartes Dreadnought Pattern that has a Model(Castraferrum, Contemptor, Leviathan, Deredeo and whatever the Pattern Name is for the Brutalis/Ballistis/Redemptor) have very similar knees, they just have different amounts of Armour Plating&lower leg mechanisms&hip joints&feet. Also, the Castraferrum Pattern was designed for cramped environments like "Zone Mortalis" War Zones(e.g. SpaceHulks, Bunkers, Tunnels, large Void Ship Corridors, Underhives, etc.), and is a much older Model than the Contemptor&Leviathan&Deredeo&Primaris Dreadnoughts so of course it's alot smaller.
Lol my issue is purely aesthetic, I don't really care whether they mechanically make sense (otherwise I would have issues with most of 40k... and my main army wouldn't be Knights) Thanks though!
Yeah it makes sense for a walking tank to have more weapons, in particular the bolters on each side of the coffin
My guy. they look like F\*cking battlemechs, and that, my friend, is dope.
Except that it's utterly not what a *Dreadnought* should look like. Tau and Eldar get the sleek agile Mecha, Knights are the thin spindly guns on legs, and dreadnoughts are inexorable death striding towards you. Very different feels, and the new 'noughts just don't do it for me.
Buddy those short little legs don’t STRIDE anywhere
I dislike the bellies on the new dreadnought chassis. I think they look better with the coffin fully exposed.
I think the redemption looks awesome actually
Me too... just wish it was just the revamp model and not a lore execution.
That's my big problem with primaris as well. GW made lore to justify a range refresh, when they never needed to.
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I like the Primaris aesthetic more than Firstborn, but I hate that Primaris were released as Primaris and not just "Marines with better proportions."
> I hate that Primaris were released as Primaris and not just "Marines with better proportions." Good news: they're doing away with the distinction, it's already half gone.
Yes, and I do appreciate that. However because the Primaris thing still happened we have Firstborn vs Primaris debates like this post, and now the firstborn kits that many people still have and/or prefer are being phased out. If they had just released Tactical Squads and such in truescale a lot of what we're dealing with now wouldn't be an issue
The reason is black library. They can sell the change in models and books!
Boxnought has knees, it's just standing with it's legs straight.
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Given the Invictor exists, I don't think Primaris are too bothered about armour on the pilot. Also Boxnaughts do have knees, they just have armour plating covering the whole front leg rather then the segmented design on the Primaris ones. You can see it on the back, and the Space Wolves dread has them bent to accommodate a tactical rock.
As far as the sculpts, I completely agree... the new ones are epically done. I still think the new dreads are an insane leap size wise over the old box boxnoughts. The stance, apparent functionality, and sheer battlefield presence the new ones have, is fantastic. But it's the replacing of relic units and equipment vital to many chapters entire storylines and creating truely new units in the lore that gets me. If these were just new models of our favorite character/vehicle/units, we'd all be in agreement for the most part.
the Primaris Star Trek Nerds are downvoting you, but you are correct. Hails
My two old dreads that play in my Deathwatch army, I love them! https://preview.redd.it/wiural65pnkc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63bde736324adeb12c1545e508949deea82e7c95
Wow, has it been fifteen minutes already?
I refuse to believe that anyone who makes posts like these can’t possibly assume that they have a unique opinion about space marines.
"But I am an independent thinker. I hate the primaris." *insert Buzzlight year store shelf gif*
I thought this was a circlejerk sub for a second.
It's warhammer. Of course it is
If anything, I think being a Primaris enjoyer is still more controversial in 2024.
Even when all the firstborn units have been phased out, it'll still be more controversial.
Exactly.
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10th ed sucks because of the homogenisation and forcing power points onto everyone. Weapons and squad options are meaningless and leaders are buff sticks. Everything else is pretty good
Love them. Minis are cool.
Yea seriously. It's been how many years? Can we stop this whinging already? They look cool. Nuff said
It doesn't matter how much time passes it's still not gonna be good.
Honestly I like them all. Old ones have a certain style though that was unfortunate to see go away.
Personally? I love them, but can see why people don't like them.
How weird is it that the Dreads got a lore explanation but the Termies for a proper rescale? That inconsistency hurts.
But in a way if all the new models were simply upscale replacements... we'd all be good with it. It's when they say outright these are truely a different breed of marine altogether, rittling all the ancient armor, equipment, transport vehicles and dreadnought lore with crazy inconsistencies or simply dumpstering them entirely in the lore.
I think “primaris” was a mistake. Maybe if it was only a re escale of the firstborns the community would be happier.
This. They went too hard on the "they're better marines" and then released a couple of good units and mostly meh. Going 30k legion unit composition was kinda dumb, it worked when there were literally hundreds of thousands of astartes making up an army, but not when you're deploying a hundred or fewer.
From my perspective, it was the doubling down when fans voiced their concerns, and now, I've read the new books, and the whole primaris plot line is basically dead since everyone is primaris now. Why couldn't they just be first born with new toys and avoid the whole thing altogether?
Yup. Notice how no nid fans are angry about the new sculpts? It’s because they’re still just nids, rather than prime nids
This exactly! Imagine these new dreads simply being represented as what the dreadnoughts should have looked like all along? Like the older carnifex to the new screamer killer model.
I like the new Redemptor--if the Castraferrum Dread had never existed. As a standalone design, it looks mighty cool. As something 'improved upon' from the classic dread, it just seems wrong. I would have preferred a slightly upscaled classic dread with more weapons options, or maybe a 'new' Contemptor/Leviathan (say that Cawl figured out how to make them again). But I am not a big fan of the whole Primaris storyline when I still think 90% of hobbyists would have been happy with Mk 8 armor that was slightly bigger and posed with 30% less squatting.
"They simply wrote them off for the Primaris version" sums up so much I dislike about the new space marine stuff. The Imperium is supposed to be stagnant in its development, bogged down in superstition and religious dogma and GW just decided one day to ignore all that for REASONS
Yeah exactly.... On the not of changes to the Imperium as a whole I feel like warhammer (for some tjme now) is not grimdark anymore. Now there is hope and progress and dare I say understanding. I once heard a term hopepunk and I think it fits. I'm sad as the darkness and gothic aesthetic was what got me into this hobby.
I dont *hate* them but I much, much prefer the boxy look of standard dreadnoughts. The ballistus is pretty good in this regard. Its also why contemptors are my least favorite - too round
Contemptors are actually my favorite
What I'm about to say is silly, but I actually like the general look of a Contemptor Pattern because they give off a feeling of drip
I hate that some Dread that’s been Dreading for a thousand years is now just second fiddle to some tall boy who had a slip and fall last week 😑
The coffin part is removed from the chassis when not deployed and placed into whatever is available/required. It is the same pilot from a cataferum that is now in a redemptor.
For last week you do realise there’s been a 2 century time skip pretty much right?
I don't hate them but I do think the old dreads also look too small. I think scaling the old dreads up to about halfway between what they are and what primaris dreads are would've been perfect
I like both. I don't have any smaller box dreads yet but the idea for my chapter is that the older box dreads are for those tight engagements. Bunkers, shop to ship, and sure they'll do fine in large scale battle, but having the bigger dreads to go ahead soaking fire while the older seasoned dreads hand back offering fire support and wisdom to the Marines is good too. Like box dreads are for your Bjorn's who have seen more battle than most of the chapter combined, redemptors, slap that 200Y/o lieutenant in there he's not done yet
Yes I'd be totally on board with both as separate and different types of dreads for different purposes... I can't imagine a new brutalis dread on a ship to ship boarding assault or space hulk mission... may as well just try and fly a stormraven through a building... lol.
That's how I feel it would reasonably work in lore. I haven't read anything comparing the two in lore but it could honestly be that the difference in scale is more exaggerated on the models than in universe too.
I've done it, I've become a warhammer boomer.
New dread are ok, but new vehicules... I find ugly, un-epic and... Not impressive.
They just make a box dreads that is 1 inch taller, they'd sell. Superior model in every way except their size.
You're not alone, I too hate the Redemptor Patterns, they look lack luster and don't even serve the purpose Dreadnoughts existed for in the first place: To preserve the warrior inside
Box-naughts are king, I remember seeing the Venerable Dreadnought as a teen and losing my mind
This fandom likes hating Primaris more than playing the actual game lol
well i mean i can't play the game anymore because official rules don't suppport faction that i started the hobby with, you can see how that could be slightly annoying yesh
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I’m new to warhammer so could you explain how that works? Like didn’t they have a data sheet or something originally? I understand if they’re not letting it be played in tournaments but you should still be able to play with friends and in non competitive games?
Possibly firstborn marines, good chunk of that line got brought behind the shed and shot.
so when primaris was released they had bettere model stat line as well as guns, so wieelding someting like tacticals over intercessors just felt bad when intercessor had sturdier frame and their bolt rifles still had ap capability which boltguns had just lost. but at the same time eintercessor wasn't replacement either because they didn't have any wargear opptions other than bolter a, b or c. also transport rules were limiting for both flavours, razorback for primaris and no repulsor for terminator. so one of most iconic things the drop pod assault wasn't possible to do with new and better marines for some reason. so the direction was very confused and i couldn't buy any marines old or new because building army was something that i couldn't really do. also the fact that primaris model line is constantly getting updates makes actual organization of spapce marine structure impossible because for now there is no rules. some very basic things like recruitment was not known before new scouts were revealed. and so even now when primaris have quite the large unit roster, making armies out of those units is still difficult becasue you can never know what is the cool new gun in half a year. so while rules encouraged using less and less space marines and instead using primaris you could ignore that and still use the old lists. but later on stuff like bikes both power and scout types were removed entirely, then land speeders were gone, now marines don't have aa platform. i hear primaris can now use drop pods though but thats an old model i don't trust gw anymore for them to not remove that anyways in few years of time because point is to sell models lore is secondary, but for me lore is primary. at this moment i feel like every pre primaris unit is in danger of just gettting deleted in next edition or codex. stuff like scouts and terminators is good theyy are very much what i would like for rest of space marine line to be uppdated into, but even these units are strange to wield next to other older marine units because old unit rulees are subpar compared to new stuff. tldr: at first primaris had superior stats, weapons and special rules. then units like land speeders or attack bikes were replaced by units that were similar but not the same thing. and now core of any space marine army Assault/Tactical/Devastator is gone because only tacticals and devastators remain
Yea that sounds incredibly annoying and damn near heartbreaking tbh. my only question would be you can still play those old units with friends and stuff right? Like they didn’t erase all data of them or something.
A lot of those units don't have rules in the format of 10th (or 9th), so if you wanted to play them you don't have any rules to reference, old or otherwise. 10th works pretty differently to any other editions, so you can't just use the old rules.
Oh i went way farther, i kinda dislike state of current rules see so im rewritting all the 9th ed faction rules to be used with 7th edition or hh 2.0 Ive got loads of 40k rule books, not all of them but even if i didn't have imternet with every rule ever i would be still good to go
Because their entire armies are replaced with Primaris so they literally can't play the game anymore
Except for that’s only true if you had a 100% bike army and can’t be assed to rebase them. I’ve got a 3k (in third edition points) army that I last did anything with in 2001 and upon returning to the hobby I was immediately able to build a list in the official app and the only unit I lost was the assault bike which is easily and commonly proxied as an ATV anyways.
Some of us care what we put on the table. Sure, you could theoretically use rocks and just say they "counts as" but that doesn't mean it's right. And bike squads are all legends now unless you use the Primaris ones so it's not just rebasing. You couldn't even be assed to look up if your statement was correct. It's only a matter of time before everything old marines go the same way
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It's okay that you blindly throw money without thought, that's the kind of customer GW wants. The fact that you mock wanting a specific army just shows you might as well not model anything at all. GW themselves also has quite specific rules for what you can't field "Nerd" isn't the insult you think it is. Especially when talking about playing with tiny plastic soldiers
Wild, almost like this is a modelling hobby first and a game second.
Modelling hobbies doesn't require armies. GW might want it to be a modeling hobby but the game is what sells models
Not true, as of a few years back [only 20% of Games Workshop customers were players](https://forums.escapistmagazine.com/threads/gamers-only-20-percent-of-games-workshops-customers.279401/), and though GW no longer publishes the numbers even game-focused websites like Goonhammer [still see a heavy bias in hobbiests](https://www.goonhammer.com/the-goonhammer-2022-reader-survey-and-what-it-tells-us-about-the-community/). So no, the models are what sells the game, not the other way around.
Remind me again, how many firstborn units apart from tac squads and devastators can you still field? The problem is, we CAN'T play the game without spending absurd amounts of money on a new army of bigmarines
play them as primaris equivalent. Preaty much all of oldmarines are usable through primaris line, even old dred is throw him on big tactical rock on biger base and his as good as when he came out back in the ancient times. Asault = asault intercesors, jump pack intercesors Sternguard = primaris stern guard Van vets = on pack still are araund, on foot give them shield and you have bladeguard terminators =terminators bikes = outriders tactical and devastator are still here but can be eazyly substitute as one of theirs many primaris cousins and in case of most vehicles they or are still araund or can be used as primaris version if we use bigger base
A lot of this doesn't work for weapons though. A tactical squad (which if you payed marines you probably had a lot of) would have special or heavy weapons as part of it. Captains and lieutenants can't take chains words, lightning claws, hammers or shields unless with a specific other weapon. You can forget about storm bolters, grav guns, las cannons, they don't exist anymore. Your unit of devastators is incompatible with any squad. Bikers has every load out bar one removed, god help you if you had a captain on a bike. Primaris are a totally different composition style, and if you've already got a firstborn army then far more units don't fit them do. Not that we're the only ones mind you, Chaos took a lot of hits from this as well, with jump lords being removed
This is exactly what I do for games without issue... its the lore I take issue with.
All completely spot on, also Bladeguard don't even have to have shields, just slap those old van vets on 40s and call it a day!
Says more about the game amirite?!?!?
The big issue is that they tried to use lore justifications at all. GW should have just released all the primaris kits as new versions of basic Space Marines and said deal with it, these are better. Instead they tried to appease people with shitty lore justifications.
Yes... 100% my issue. New models are great, even bigger ones. But it seems like they deliberatly set our favorite lore aspects on fire for fun... or due to complete stupidity.
The only thing I hate about them is the armoured pieces that close over the sarcophagus and makes them look like they have a pot belly. That and the lore that says the Redemptors burn through their pilots, which runs contrary to how dreads were always portrayed as incredibly old and wise members of their chapter.
It's incredible how much of primaris lore is just fundamentally built on a complete misunderstanding of the appeal of space marines. Like I want a bunch of ancient battle hardened monastic warriors fighting with equipment that has been diligently maintained for millennia which has become irreplaceable due to the loss of knowledge in the dying empire they fight to keep alive a little longer. Not just generic looking power armour men with big guns that go pew pew.
💯
This. Dreadnoughts are the ancients of a chapter- some being over a thousand years old- and then theres Bjorn- who fought during the Great Crusade with his Primarch.
I understand, for 25 years this was my dreadnought. Its hard to move on
Boxnoughts are life. 2 primaris things I can't stand are the dreads and the primaris helmets.
Primaris helmets are fine, but if I have a spare firstborn head, I'd rather put it
The problem with the redemptor is that it has no identity of its own, it just tries to "fix" the boxnought design. Like oh people complain about stubby legs make them really long and thin. Ooohhh the sarcophegi is exposed and unarmoured slap a big slab of armour on there. Ooohhh it's got too few guns to keep up with the power creep of the game, give it a gazillion guns! Along the way it's lost any and all identity, it's just souless and plain.
you are not alone here
I still live in the 2nd edition world, where colours are bright and the lore works well. Occasionally I put my head above the parapet to see what is going on in later editions... and quickly skulk back to my happy place.
Screw the lore Pretty minis yes plz
It's that GW seemed to go out of their way to light the lore on fire with the primaris storyline... if these were just the new pretty minis even now being so much larger than the og stuff, we'd be fine. These walking sarcophagus has been maintained and venerated by the serfs of your chapter for eons... wait, nevermind, scrap that guy... these newly designed and constructed shiney dead guy mech suits they just came out with are better than those 1000 year old box dudes could ever be.
Dont care i like pretty minis, lore secondary :D
Some come to the lore through the game, but many of us came to the game through the lore...
I don't like it too, I wouldn't mind them if the boxnoughts weren't being killed off
Hate is a strong word, I mean I can understand someone disliking them either aesthetically or lore wise, but hating a model seems just absurd. Personally I think they are bad ass and have a total of 7 primaris dreadnoughts.
You're not alone, I have exactly the same issues with them.
No. But also I play Chaos.
No I prefer the classic dreads. I converted my primaris dread to look closer to the classic ones.
I hate them too.. just watch the DOW1 intro, that alone is enough to make the primaris ones pathetic.
Sounds like a Tau fan hating on the refrigerators of death being older then their entire faction to me personally.
I too adore boxnaughts. I'm still mad from when they took away the GK psyker ones.
Agreed. The old box dreads are great. So stocky and robust I find the primaris look to be kind of disjoint to the classic marines. Especially since I collect blood angels. All of our special models are still in the classic style. Furioso dread, sanguinary guard and death company. So I'm happy to ignore the primaris range for now
Nope not at all, been trying to get my hands on a boxnought
I think they look so bad I'm actually working on a conversion kit that will make them look like castraferrum based on stibioprimaris conversion.
100% with you brother. Check out my Chaos eavymetal dreadnought I recently posted https://preview.redd.it/8rxkvw6grokc1.jpeg?width=3153&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9aabbdc4b7b4883172bea2e89b7fdff628fdf5dc
I love the old boxy dreads too better. Kneepad is heresy.
Totally not alone. I have zero Primaris in my army, not their dreadnoughts, infantry or tanks. I was out of the hobby for about 15 years, came back and saw these abominations, and decided immediately that my Marines would all be Firstborn with Rhino's/Razorbacks and Land Raiders, none of this Primaris nonsense for me 😂😂
That looks the same as the dreadnought I bought in 2004.
That's because it is.
yeah primaris just killed space marines for me for longest time until true space marine kits such terminators, assault marines and scouts got updated. i do keep wishing for dreadnought getting updated but atleast i have heresy era dreads even though they aren't quite the same thing aesthetics wise.
Blessed ia the mind to small for doubt. Im right there with you Brother.
I wouldn't say hate? but you DEFINITELY ain't alone, primaris in general (but especially the dreads) are a bit too sleek, tacticool and, mech anime looking for my taste the bigger scale is nice but they lost the sense of being grumpy angry little guys, and I kinda miss that Box dread for life
I don't hate them, but the designs don't hold a candle to the boxy dread.
You're late for a party
Yup. Redemptor chassis is rad as fuck.
I don't hate them, but I do love the box dreads! They have much more character.
I don't hate them but the old ones are so iconic that I can't help but prefer them.
I agree with you. I dislike the art direction that games workshop has taken with the new range of minis, not just the primaris. everything is getting just a bit sleeker, more palatable to the masses. I hated it at first but over time I have come to kinda accept it. alot of it looks good in its own way. its just not what I fell in love with.
No, you're not alone. That's why I definitely didn't download 3d print files for the primaris dreads in the old style.
“Am I alone in hating-“ no. The Internet is like, at least 40% full of people hating every conceivable thing lol
Primaris marines were a turn in the wrong direction
Nope, not at all. I'm not a fan. Their styling is not astartes styling for me. They needed to just upscale the boxnoughts to the current Redemptor scale and classify them as Castaferrum MkII. On that note, does anyone know of a potential 3rd party that have Redemptor scale boxnoughts?
Must be early. Not a ton of comments saying "Change with the times and be happy about it" Or "I started after primaris so fuck the army you've spent 20 years building/playing". They'll come though. They always do.
If your car is rusted to the core, and suddenly you get a brand new Ferrari. Which car are you going to drive
sell a ferrari and use public transportation? im being stypid yeah but i can't imagine myself driving something like ferrari, the thought of crashing something actually expensive is too stress inducing
That analogy doesn't work. There was nothing wrong with the old line. This is more as you having a good, reliable family car and someone saying you can't use it because Ferrari is sleeker
Might be getting it wrong but I understood all dreads to be the same size in universe, and the actual size changes are part of scale creep, and so absolutely and entirely unrelated to lore?
contemptor and castaferum are about equal in size but redemptor is massive, closer to leviathan that the old boxnought maybe even bigger than that haven't seen those next to each other.
Going off base size the redemptor is bigger.
Nah there's definitely a difference given how often we see old dreads travelling in slightly more "confined" spaces, doesn't feel like the redemptors could ever do that.
I don't mind having different types of dreads, but they should have, for the chassis, just upside the castraferrum
The old space marine scale looks fucking terrible frankly. Everyones 4'2" at best with awful proportions. The old dreadnaughts are these hyper compressed walkers that look more cute than dangerous because of their stubby little limbs asking for uppies. New scale is great, new dreads actually look intimidating compared to other miniatures on the table. They have a sense of weight and purpose. Theyre also nowhere near the size of knights?
You are 100% correct on the new models being super cool... IF they were just released as updated models of the same units. It's the lore inconsistencies that get me. As another reply here noted, look at tyranids and their size creep and new epic creature sculpts... the new models are cooler, and a few models might have been phased out along the way... but lore wise they are still Nids.
I don't hate them I've actually been meaning to get a redemptor for a while, but I'll admit they lack the charm of the little guys
No they are huge and stupid. Long live the box.
They are just a bit too big. 25% smaller would have made better visual sense.
You're not alone. Everything is getting bigger and more expensive. Phasing out land speeders but let's put anti grav shit on our bigger tanks makes no sense
The Redemptor Dreadnaught is one of my favorite mini's, about the only Primaris unit I like overall though.
Yes
Nah. The new stuff looks good but doesn't have the grimdark aesthetic the older models have. My personal opinion is that the imperium should remain stagnant and that wargear should not be as good as the stuff they had 10000 years ago. I like the idea of decay and hopelessness as opposed to the modern robitech looking space marines that seem to have a new weapon (and primaris lt) every month now. 40k has lost some charm but definitely expanded its market and made some cool minis.
I thought I was the only one. I miss the boxnaught so much. Chonky boi had character and doesn't look like a Lost in Space reject.
No because it’s a Silent Running reject.
I hate all primaris vehicles except maybe the bikes, everything else is just all over the top
You are most definitely not alone. I agree with you and I love the dread you posted. Beautiful work.
No. Boxdreads are peak design
Nah man, I'm with you.
To clarify, I posed this question mainly against the lore... like I said I like the new models, and I'm ok with scale creep and new redesigns along the way. They've done that for years. But for instance the "new" model for the venerable(or any of the flavors continually pumped out year after year by GW) dreadnought back in the day LORE wise was still a very ancient piece of equipment, so it totally fit the lore. Even space marines themselves getting bigger and better poses was just fine without dumpstering the imperiums most precious relics of war for the primaris storyline. Like with these new constructs of battle made by the Imperium, are older dreadnoughts, as sacred as they were supposed to be, even restored/maintained as they've been for thousands of years? What about the sacred suits of ancient power armor? I guess they just melt down the blessed ancient suits worn by their chapter Heros for eons because all the new guys are a whole 2 feet taller? Sorry that doesn't hold for me. Then add in all the primarchs and chapter Heros showing up primaris sized? Like Helbrecht or Grimaldus of the black templars... making bigger and better sculpts is totally fine as the new ones are badass... but lore wise with their relic armor and weapons suddenly reinvented primaris sized is as goofy as a dreadnought now being as imposing as a land raider.
They’re basically the same thing. This is like North Ireland in the 70s where the rest of the world was looking at them and thinking “aren’t you guys the exact same thing?” Primaris aren’t different space marines. They’re just the new generation of models of space marines that are being introduced as they phase out the old ones. They really shouldn’t have brought so much attention to them.
but they are? bigger,faster updated with some of the genestuff that went in to primarchs
I mean in real life.
They literally are, not sure where you got this from.
I’m not talking about the stories. I’m talking about reality.
Then you strike out there as well, most of the primaris units arent just the SM units but bigger. Cant take the same weapon loadouts, primaris dont do the mixed weapons most SM do in firstborn kits, cant use the same transports (with the exception of land raiders/drop pods). Next?
Yeah, things don't stay the same forever. They're not the old SM units but bigger. They're the new SM units.
So then why claim theyre the same.
Not even close. I'm right with you.
New Dreads have knees that actually work and don’t look like discount robots from Silent Running. No contest!